a) go to google and verify the facts before you embarrass yourself by spouting incorrect rubbish online
b) shut the fuck up (don't let everyone know how ignorant you are)
Frankly, it's not rocket science given how easy it is to verify your facts online. In reply to the Minimum Wage article on The Real Singapore, there were so many bullshit comments written by misinformed Singaporeans who blatantly didn't understand the taxation system in other countries. I don't want this to turn into another Xiaxue-style name & shame exercise. But good grief, these people clearly don't know what the hell they are talking about. There are several but I am just going to quote one of them:
"This is bollocks. The reason why this fast food worker can explain all this is because the rest of the country pays income tax at the rate of of about 40% to 50% of their income. If that happens, I'm leaving Singapore."
Groan. Double groan. Even in the UK, we don't pay 50% tax. Tax is progressive, ie. it's a sliding scale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_Kingdom#Income_tax I am going to focus on the UK's system first, then we shall look at Australia's system then at Singapore's.
Different countries have different tax systems. |
The UK system is actually really straight forward.
- The first £8105 of income is tax free.
- Then for the 8106th pound to the 34370th pound that I earn, I am taxed at 20% only.
- Then income coming in at £34,371 - £150,000, one pays 40% income tax.
- Anything over £150,000 is taxed at 50% (to be reduced to 45% in the next spring).
Since I don't earn £150,000 a year, I am never taxed at that rate of 50% which you talk about. That's for super rich people. So if a man earns £150,001 a year, then only the £1 out of £150,000 is subjected to 50% tax. Let's look at three case studies to see how it works in practice: meet a British engineer, CEO and nurse.
Let's say an engineer earns £50,000 a year - a very respectable salary that's like S$100,000 a year. The first £8105 is tax free. Then he pays 20% for next £26265 earned = £5253 in tax. Then for the remaining £15630, he is taxed at 40% = £6263. Hence total income tax bill for a man who earns £50,000 a year is £11,505 = 23.01% This is still higher than Singapore of course, but it is not 50% like you have stated.
Our British engineer is taxed at 23%, not 50%. |
Let's look at an CEO who earns £100,000 a year. The first £8105 is tax free. Then he pays 20% for next £26265 earned = £5253 in tax. Then for the remaining £65630, he is taxed at 40% = £26,252. Hence his total tax bill is 5253 + 26525 = £31,778. Hence in fact he is taxed at 31.78% - yes that is higher than Singapore, but again, it is nothing like the kind of figures quoted by some Singaporeans of 40%, even 50%
I am afraid many of you have fallen victim to PAP bullshit lies in terms of income the West. They are trying to give you the misleading image that hardworking folk are seeing half their income disappear on high taxes - this just doesn't happen! May I now introduce you to the British junior nurse who earns £21,176 a year (at entry level) - let's do some maths here and work out what her income tax is.
The first £8105 is tax free. Then the next £13071 is taxed at 20% = £2614.20 Income tax bill of that nurse earning £21,176 is £2614.20 = 12.3% Hence, a snapshot just for you to understand the UK tax system:
- Nurse £21,176 = 12.3% income tax
- Engineer £50,000 = 23% income tax.
- CEO £100,000 = 31.78% income tax
Your rate of income tax depends on how much you earn. |
Given the way the system is created, nobody will pay 50% income tax, that's just not a mathematical possibility with the British system. It just takes some simple maths to do the calculations and figure out your taxes. It's not rocket science is it? I'm sure you need no more than PSLE maths to figure out this kind of calculations. Okay, time for a trip down under, let's have a look at the Australian tax system then. Now the Aussies pay even less taxes than the Brits. Please allow me to refer you to the table below:
Financial year 2012-13[3]
Taxable income | Tax on this income | Effective tax rate |
---|---|---|
0 – $18,200 | Nil | 0% |
$18,201 – $37,000 | 19c for each $1 over $18,200 | 0 – 9.7% |
$37,001 – $80,000 | $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000 | 9.7 – 21.9% |
$80,001 – $180,000 | $17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000 | 21.9 – 30.3% |
$180,001 and over | $54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 | 30.3 – 44.9% |
Let's now turn our attention to Australia |
So for comparison, let's look at three Australian men who earn different levels of income: A who earns $25,000, B who earns $50,000 and then C who earns $100,000.
For A, he pays no tax for the first $18,200. The next $6,800 is taxed at 19 cents per $1 = $1292. Hence he actually pays just 5.17% income tax.
For B, he pays no tax for the first $18,200. For the next $18,800, he is taxed at 19 cents per $1 = $3572, and then for the next $13,000, he is taxed at 32.5 cents per $1 = $4225. Hence his total tax bill is 3572 + 4225 = $7797. Hence he actually pays just 15.6% income tax.
For C, he pays no tax for the first $18,200. For the next $18,800, he is taxed at 19 cents per $1 = $3572, then for the next $50,000 he pays 32.5 cents per $1 = $16,250 and then for the next $20,000 he pays 37 cents per $1 = $7400. Hence his total tax bill is 3572 + 16250 + 7400 = $27,222. Hence he actually pays just 27.22% income tax.
Australians pay less taxes than Brits but more taxes than Singaporeans. |
Once again, here's the snapshot for the Australian tax system:
- A who earns $25,000 = 5.17% income tax
- B who earns $50,000 = 15.6% income tax
- C who earns $100,000 = 27.22% income tax
Imagine if A, B and C lived in Singapore and earned the same amounts - how much would they be taxed?
- A = 0.4% income tax in Singapore
- B = 2.5% income tax in Singapore
- C = 5.65% income tax in Singapore (here's the link for Singapore income tax rates)
So yes indeed, Singapore is a low-tax regime where everyone from the low-income to the high earners get away with much lower taxes, that much we know. But what pisses me off is this fallacy of people in Europe or Australia having to pay 50% income tax - because it is simply not true. Let's allow the figures to speak for themselves: so please, no more lies or exaggerations about high tax rates in Europe or Australia. Can we talk about the issue like sensible adults and focus on the facts?
Low tax regime - but have you seen the bigger picture? |
Do you think Singaporeans are better off? Think again. I don't have to contend with the stealth tax of CPF and COE - how ya like that eh Singaporeans? How much of your "money" is locked away in your CPF account? Do you feel rich looking at your CPF statement? Bwhahahahaha. It is a fallacy that Singapore is some kind of low-tax regime - it is really only a low-tax regime for those who are working there are expatriates and have no CPF obligations. They are the ones who benefit the most from the Singaporean system.
Furthermore, I think I paid a bloody big tax with 2 years 4 months of my life - we call it national service. Gosh, when think of how much I earn these days and how much I gave up in terms of earning power by delaying my career by 2 years 4 months. Oh and in that time, I was paid so little by the SAF that I had to live off my savings and was dependent on my parents for so many things. If I were to calculate the opportunity cost of that 2 years 4 months taken from my life, then that is huge 'nationality' tax that I had to pay because of the unfortunately combination of my gender and nationality. Try this my friends: work out what your salary is per annum then multiply that by 2.33 (or by 2.5, 2: ie. a factor of how many years your NS liability was) - then add to that the amount of money a typical NSF needs from his parents to make ends meet during the full duration of national service. How does that figure stack up against your idea of a low-tax regime? Then again, it's the money per se - it is also what I could've been doing with my time instead of the crap I was doing.
Male Singaporeans pay a very hefty'nationality tax' in the form of NS. |
Don't get me wrong - there are many good things about working in Singapore, but you need to make sense of the tax system by looking at the bigger picture and take into account everything including availability of housing, CPF, COE and NS (for us male Singaporeans - that is something you female Singaporeans don't really understand). How can we have a sensible discussion about taxation policies when so many Singaporeans don't even have the faintest clue what the hell happens in other countries and just believe crazy bullshit lies about 50% income tax in the west? Tolong lah. If you've made it this far with my article, well done - the next time some stupid Singaporean talks about people in the West paying 50% income tax, you can correct them.
So yes, Singaporeans do pay less tax than Australian and Brits, but the gap is actually smaller than a lot of Singaporeans claim and by the time you take into account the big picture - CPF, HDB, COE, NS and your expensive health care costs (whilst I have the NHS here in the UK) and the fact that you're living on a very crowded island of 5.3 million people on an island of just 710 km2 (with loads of foreign talents in your midst) - ask yourself this, are you really better off in Singapore?
Finally, tax can be a red herring - after all, if increasing your income tax from 5% to say 20% will send you crashing into poverty, then I say: it's not the tax system that's the problem. You're clearly not earning enough money in the first place and you should be thinking about how you should earn more money (rather than minimize your taxes). We need to look at the wider picture of an individual's earnings, investments and outgoings, rather than just focus on his taxes. Some people (such as those in the "squeezed generation") can earn a lot of money and still be struggling to make ends meet because they have too many financial commitments.
In any case, I invite you to have a look around London or Sydney, there's no shortage of rich people in the West who are paying rather high levels of income tax but for them, they are making so much money they are still rich even after paying their taxes. After all, wealth creation really depends on how much you earn, not how little you are taxed. Tax dodging aside, the people who pay the least income tax are the poorest.
As usual, feel free to leave a comment below and share your thoughts on the issue, thanks.
I am not sure how you arrived at your Singapore average tax rates but the rates for B and C are almost certainly wrong. In a progressive tax structure, there is no way the average tax rate for C can be lower than B (assuming that all the income is from employment/trade rather than capital gains which is tax free in Singapore)
ReplyDeleteFor B earning SGD50,000 per year (and disregarding the tax deductions available for compulsory CPF contributions), the tax computation would simply be :
For the first S$40k tax is S$550, the remaining S$10k taxed at 7% giving an additional tax of $700, total tax payable S$1250 (=700+550). Average tax is therefore 1250/50000= 2.5%
For C earning S$100k per year
For first S$80k, tax is S$3350, additional S$20k taxed at 11.50% giving $2,300. Total tax = $5,650, average tax rate = 5650/100000 = 5.65%
You know, wigittabs, you're right, I stand corrected - allow me to correct that miscalculation.
DeleteYou wrote: "work out what your salary is per annum then multiply that by 2.33, then add to that the amount of money a typical NSF needs from his parents to make ends meet... How does that figure stack up against your idea of a low-tax regime?"
ReplyDeleteWhat are you trying to calculate here? Also, where did that factor of 2.33 come from? Thanks.
I am trying to calculate the opportunity cost of the time I spent in the army. Now in my case, I spent 2.33 years (ie. 2 years 4 months) - for some Singaporeans, that figure will be 2.5 years (ie. 2 years 6 months) and for others, just 2 years (hence x2) - I was using myself as an example in this case, hence 2.33 x my income = opportunity cost of delaying me from joining the workforce as a result of NS in S'pore.
DeleteHello Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI think your calculation of opportunity cost of NS makes sense.
You gave figures for income tax rates but not for CPF, so here it goes...
If your monthly wage exceeds $1500 and your age is 50 years or below, then your CPF contribution is 20% of your wage while your employer's contribution is 16% of your wage.
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Gen-Info/Con-Rates/ContriRa.htm
Some Singaporeans think that they are getting extra money from employers through the CPF scheme. This is quite silly. If your employer INTENDS to pay you 1.16 Y, then he will pay you Y instead, so that with CPF contributions he pays 1.16 Y altogether. Your employer does not pay more than what he intends to.
In addition, employees contribute 20% hence our take-home pay is 0.8 Y. Now compare this to the wage of 1.16 Y we will get if there is no CPF. This means that we are effectively paying a hidden tax rate of (1.16 Y – 0.8 Y) / (1.16 Y) = 31% through CPF.
The British equivalent of CPF is National Insurance. If you're employed, you pay 12% on your weekly earnings between £146 and £817, and an extra 2% on any earnings over £817.
https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/how-much-national-insurance-you-pay
So if your weekly wage is W, then your weekly National Insurance contribution is 0.12 × (817 – 146) + 0.02 × (W – 817) = 0.02 W + 64.18 hence the NI rate is 0.02 + 64.18 / W
Nurse: £21,176 per year or W = 21,176/52 = 407.2 thus NI rate = 18%
Engineer: £50,000 per year or W = 961.5 thus NI rate = 9%
CEO: £100,000 per year or W = 1923 thus NI rate = 5%
All these NI rates are smaller than the CPF rate of 31% as shown above.
At this point, I'm too tired to do a similar analysis for Australia.
Thanks for the maths - I know it's not sexy, it's not fun but it is necessary to know the facts & figures before we pass any kind of judgement on the relative merits of the two systems!
DeleteThe key problem with CPF in Singapore is that employers have obliged by law to pay this CPF contribution for Singaporeans but foreigners are not part of the scheme - so in the employers' eyes, foreigners are cheaper because of this difference - it does disadvantage Singaporeans in their own country. The way to level the playing field is to make employers pay some kind of foreigner-CPF (which can then be withdrawn when they leave the country for good) - so at least the foreigners are not 'cheaper' because of the CPF factor.
I happen to come across an article by David Cay Johnston on Singapore tax myths at http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/08/05/column-dcjohnston-singapore-idINN1E7740EP20110805
DeleteJohnston not only mentioned implicit taxes and compulsory savings, but also state-owned monopolies in Singapore.
Hey Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI would like to state that Singaporeans like to blow their own horn that we are "independent individuals", we do everything by ourselves and as capitalists we get paid according to our skills and for our hard work.
Honestly, I think that is a whole load of bullshit. Hardly any adult (above 21) can afford to live on his own, pay all his bills (including rent) without depending on family. Almost everyone I know below 30 gets help from their parents to buy/rent, excluding the top 1%.
We claim to be meritocratic, but we all know getting the best jobs in singapore are so much about having the right connections and being from the right school and always depending on friends to refer them to better jobs. It even starts from internships.
I know this is prevalent in all countries, but the truth is without any help its hard to get a good job to simply survive as an individual. It's worse that we claim to have low taxes to help when they are all hidden taxes.
I want to say that our CPF is meant as a retirement fund. Exactly what it means, not for buying a HDB. How many people out there honestly have any funds for retirement at all after using CPF to pay for their home. They claim to be happy to be allowed to use that money to get a house, but it was always meant for savings. Without CPF how many people can afford a home?
Parents pay for their children way into their adulthood, to ensure they do not fall into a trap as they get older. I hear many acquaintances from 25-30 who are very proud they do not take public transport or wash their own clothes and there is always daddy or mummy to fetch them to work everyday.
It's a real sick mentality we think we are independent, while taxes in other countries help to ensure people are not dependent on their circle of family and friends to survive but society allows for people to afford things and survive on their own.
It's my own opinion but it would be great if you can show just how badly dependent Singaporeans are on everyone around them and the govt is proud that we have low taxes that don't provide social benefits that are sufficient.
Hello John. I agree with what you say totally, but you know, every cloud has its silver lining. Some young people in the West tend to live beyond their means, often getting into a lot of debt when they have to assume full financial responsibility for themselves. Some young adults are responsible - they know how to be very careful with their money whilst others are not willing to compromise on the standard of living they enjoyed when they were supported by their parents and as a result, they get into debt.
DeleteI was pretty shocked recently when I found out that a good friend of mine was just one of those young people - he seemed to have a good job, always dressed nicely and hey, the guy went to Cambridge. Super smart no doubt but just ... not very savvy with money. He was living in this beautiful flat near Tower Bridge which was this HUGE loft conversion and I was like woah he must be doing well. Then he confessed that the rent for that place had sunk him into debt and he was forced to downsize and move out of town. I went to see his new place recently and it was still pretty big but in a cheaper neighbourhood. And I was like, "why did you rent that big place in Tower Bridge when it was gonna sink you into debt?" He replied, "because it's a nice flat." (Cue palm to forehead.)
In Singapore, young people are less likely to be in debt (like my friend) because they have their parents' help. My friend doesn't get a penny from his parents since he's in his 30s and expected to be financially independent at his age! It's not a bad thing as this dependency on credit, living beyond our means is what got us into this current financial crisis. Sure it's the Singaporean parents who picking up the tab for their kids, but look at the big picture, they have saved Singapore from an even bigger financial crisis.
The question is - what will happen to the next generation? Will the current generation be able to bail out their children? I don't think so.
The Singaporean system is not without its merits, but one has to evaluate it fairly and look at the big picture, rather than just focus on the low rates of income tax.
Hi Limpeh, thanks for the reply.
DeleteI think what is frustrating is that whether or not you are financially responsible in Singapore, you are in debt, either to banks or everyone around you.
Whereas if you are some progressively high tax countries, responsibility lowers the personal lifetime debt.
It't not utopia outside of Singapore, but it seems to be more fair, although our media always claims that we have a system that "works" best.
The risks are socialized, profits privatised, with debt for most of the population.
Everything is so pragmatic and practical sometimes we forget how to be human and to make decisions that are meant as emotional decisions. (http://sg.entertainment.yahoo.com/blogs/singapore-showbiz/runaway-brides-singapore-janice-story-part-1-035439074.html)
Thanks for reading and having your posts, it always gets me thinking more.
Hi John. I'm not saying that the British / European / Aussie system is better - have a read of the exchange between Colin and myself, I say the British system is like a leaky bucket. It is good but riddled with imperfections and problems, but I'd rather have a leaky bucket than no bucket.
DeleteI read a heart warming story today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-20908439 Malala Yousafzi - the girl who was shot by the Taliban for speaking up for the right of girls to get an education, well she is going to remain in the UK (at least for the next 3 years) and her father has been given a job here. This brave young woman is an asset to us and her courage has inspired so many - we need more people like her who have the guts to act with dignity, courage and integrity in the face of danger, adversity and fear. I am sure she will go on to achieve great things whether she chooses to continue living in the UK or return to Pakistan.
It boggles the mind what the hell the PAP is up to - because they seem determined to let in a large number of uneducated PRCs (simply to keep the Chinese % ratio up) but are blind to the talents of people from other countries.
Hey there,
ReplyDeleteI see that there was someone have already pointed out that there is NI in the UK. I'm not sure about yourself, but for me, after tax and NI, my net take home pay is only about 60+% of my gross. Ouch!
I agree partially that CPF is some sort of a 'tax' for individuals, however you can use CPF to make payments to your housing in Sg whereas in the UK, you don't.
You can argue that NI pays for the free NHS service in the UK. However I'm not sure how many times you have used it. Many of my colleagues complain about it (long waiting time, crappy service etc etc etc - pretty what you get in SG govt hospitals really). The senior managers swear off NHS. Also, I'm sure you have read on the news how badly the NHS services have been abused by free loaders. I've had such a bad experience my 1 time i needed to use it that I resorted to BUPA instead (fortunately I'm covered).
Just thought of giving my point of view from staying quite a while in the UK.
Cheers.
Yes there is NI in the UK, as there is the CPF in Singapore and Medicare in Australia. There is also VAT/GST in all of the three countries etc.
DeleteI have to correct you though, NI isn't just a tax per se, it is something you pay to build up your entitlement to certain state benefits, such as the state pension. https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/overview Now I don't know if you hold an SG or UK passport, but for me (I hold a UK passport), I am entitled to a whole range of state benefits including the state pension when I do reach pension age. Now this isn't much, it is designed to make sure that the elderly have enough to live off - I have my own pension/retirement plans and investments squirrelled away for the future.
NI really hits expatriates hard though, because yes whilst they are entitled to some things like NHS healthcare - they are not entitled to many other benefits which are limited to British citizens such as the state pension, yet you pay NI like every one else working here for benefits you're not even entitled to as a foreigner? Man that must really suck for you - but that's like a 'foreigner/expat' tax I guess for foreigners who wanna work in the UK.
I have used the NHS a lot for my dental care and a few times over the years for stuff like eye infections to broken bones etc. I must say, I don't have anything to complain about it. I recognize that it is not perfect and improvements can be made and I also recognize that perhaps I have been lucky as there have been others who have had bad experiences with the NHS - but on the whole, I don't think it's too bad at all. You can read my piece on the NHS here and I encourage you to read the comments left by my readers in Singapore on that piece where they compare their experiences in Singapore (which overwhelmingly seems to be v bad!) : http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/london-vs-singapore-nhs-hospitals.html
So just to summarize on CPF vs NI:
DeleteSo whilst Singaporeans can use their CPF to make payments for housing, Brits can get a whole range of state benefits (including a state pension) - the 2 systems are very different and indeed, the poor and those on low-income do benefit far more from such state benefits than the rich. So sue us, we're a rather socialist country where the government taxes the rich to help the poor - is that such a bad thing? No, I don't think so - I'd rather live in a society where that is the norm than a country where turning away destitute Rohingya refugees is perfectly acceptable.
Now in terms of housing - the British government does a LOT to help young people get a roof over their head in the name of social housing. These council housing may be basic and some of those council blocks may have been built back in the 1960s and 70s but if you're a British person who needs help, then you will be referred through the social housing network and you will be given a roof over your head. Again, this benefits the poor/low-income a lot more than the rich - I have purchased my 2 flats via the private market route; but then again, this is a rather socialist country where the rich are taxed to help the poor: is that such a bad thing?
I pay my taxes, I help the poor and guess what? I am still pretty comfortable financially, I am not fabulously wealthy but I'm doing pretty well. The tax system here has not reduced me to poverty and most of all, I do support the system where my taxes are used for the benefit of those less well-off in the society where I live. I know you find that an alien concept as a Singaporean - but that goes to show how different we are as people. I don't believe I am better off by hoarding as much money as possible - heck, I give money away to charity and in so doing, making myself more poor but a lot happier in having done so. I am sure that's probably a crazy concept for most Singaporeans.
The PAP 'letting' you use your CPF to pay for your flats is disappointing to say the least, I'd much rather see the PAP redistribute that money to help Singaporeans who are on low-income, from poor families and help them make the most of their life chances.
I ask you this: WHY OH FUCKING WHY are you Singaporeans so FUCKING hung up on hanging on to every single fucking cent/penny you have? Fucking hell, I swear you hold on to a penny so fucking hard the Queen would fucking scream, "fucking hell, let me go you fucking Singaporean!"
Hi there,
DeleteYup, I'm still holding on to a Singaporean passport and yes it sucks to pay so much!
I do fundamentally agree to the UK concept. In my numerous conversations with colleagues, I actually do admire the noble thinking behind the tax and NI system. The intention of helping the poor and redistributing income is very noble. I respect that tremendously and do hope that Singapore can learn something from it (vs heartlessness).
However the fact is, with human nature, this has been badly abused. Opening up the telegraph, guardian etc (of course The Sun too after you skip pass page 3), you do read about the tremendous amount spent on benefits and the fact that some money goes to the lazy and undeserving. You don't just read of it, you see and hear of it everyday! This then creates a burden on those working hard and increases the amount of taxes they have to pay for the government to balance the books.
I don't agree to hoarding money too - after all can i take those to the grave? However I would like to have sufficient cash to do contingency and retirement planning. Not forgetting the very Singaporean thing of splashing out on a nice place to stay etc.. :) But I do feel some resentment that after working so hard, I only get 60+% of what I earn and some people on benefits are not that much worse off. Would the British government help if I lose my job?
On the point of hospitals, I have unfortunately had to be in hospitals numerous times when I was young. From sports injuries (was an athlete) to accidents etc. As I was not from a wealthy family, I had to settle for 6-8 bedders in government hospitals. Yes, the experience wasn't good. So I know all the about the experience there. I have been fortunate not to have to stayed in UK hospitals yet so I don't have insight on the experience there. However my experience with NHS for smaller ailments have not been good.
You might then ask, why do you still want to stay in the UK for? FO back home then. Well, that is for very realistic reasons. Till Singapore can be a leading financial market (as much as the government claims it to be, it is not) and the opportunities/experience that comes with it, I will still be progressing my career in the UK. No point managing a kampong where you can take on the world!! BUWAHAHAHAH...
Cheers.
Ah I see, if you're an SG expat in the UK, then you get a really bad deal (and you know that). You have to pay into a system (NI) from which you're denied many of the benefits because you're not British (ie. yes you get NHS, no you don't get a state pension etc). Compare this to the Singapore system, when the British expat is spared CPF liabilities - but then again, the CPF was never ever designed to be a system to redistribute wealth from rich to poor. It's simply a pension system to ensure that Singaporeans do save up for their retirement, so they don't end up old and destitute after retirement and dependent on the government for everything. Such is the difference.
DeleteThe British system does focus on the concept of "we don't care what your nationality is, you earn this much, you pay the same taxes into our system if you wanna work here, cos you can afford it." That does mean a bad deal for you Colin, unless you do decide to settle down here eventually.
As for the underclass who are dependent entirely on benefits, yes it is a bad side-effect of the system. I'm not saying that the system is perfect and I have my own ideas about how the system has to be improved. I actually do believe that this current government is moving in the right direction - they are doing a much better job than the previous Labour government (not sure if you remember the epic Omnishambles they were before this current government got voted in). I actually do like the Clegg-Cameron team a lot, then again, after the epic disaster of Gordon Brown, it wasn't hard to like them.
Have you heard of the concept of a leaky bucket? When a fire breaks out, you don't stop pouring the water on the fire just because your bucket has sprung a leak. So yes of course, you have described the leaks in the bucket - but what is the alternative? Abandoning the bucket altogether? That is what happens in Singapore where you refuse to help even 40 Rohingya refugees on the verge of death (and the amount of bullshit and lies, such fucking LIES that Singaporeans tell themselves to justify their stance) ... This is what gets me angry. So yes, I say, the British bucket is leaking, but I'd rather have that over no bucket at all.
Part 2: No the British government is not going to help you if you lose your job as you're a Singaporean, no question about that. They have enough problems trying to help the unemployed British people, never mind unemployed Singaporeans in Britain. They're gonna say, "you've lost your job, tough, there goes your work permit and you have to return to Singapore."
DeleteYeah all that after your NI contributions.
Excellent points you made there sir and I agree with most of them!
DeleteI'm not too sure if we will settle in the UK eventually. There are family ties and friends that bond me back to Singapore. It's nothing so much to do with the passport, its more something more emotional for me.
I read up about the news alot globally. Be it the US, UK and even other key markets that I work with. I always find politics and governance extremely intriguing.
Whilst there are strengths and weakness in the both places (UK and Sg). I think somewhere in between would be ideal - a system where the genuine poor and weak are helped, and a system where it rewards the hardworking and enterprising. A system where there is honesty and integrity in governance and a government that shows compassion and consideration for all. It's an ideal world that I hope to contribute to achieve, just being realistic about how the changes and the pace of change can come about.
Another fact I would like to point out, even with a 'not ideal' system in Sg, I still do think there's alot of good going on there as compared to so many countries (and the awful crap there) I see.
This is the last few days of 'holiday' for me before the scramble begins again on Monday... sigh..
Cheers.
Well let's put it this way, if you do enjoy a good relationship with your family back in Singapore, I say, good for you. Go back and enjoy your time with them and let them play an active role in your children's life if that makes everyone involved happy.
DeleteI agree that neither countries are perfect - both countries have their merits and share of flaws and it comes tied up with a bunch of other factors. So you pick one package over the other ... and I've picked the UK.
You haven't even mentioned deductions, tax offsets, exemptions, and how the tax you pay gets redistributed into the system through benefits....
ReplyDeleteEr... if you are talking about UK. My personal experience is that I don't have any deductions, offsets, exemptions etc. Yes, I'm screwed big time! It's a PAYE system here where the deduction your taxes directly from your salary. The 60+% that I'm talking about is just purely gross - tax and NI. I still have not included the money I'm paying into pension etc.
ReplyDeleteLeast in Sg you still get some deductions for NS (very small I know!) and the occasional government payouts. Those are negligible on the grand scheme of things but just worth a mention.
On how the tax is redistributed in the UK, there is an article I read recently on the telegraph that shows where the money is spent on. It's very interesting. One weakness i see in Singapore is that such level of transparency is not there! Or maybe its just that I've not seen it. I would hope to see the Sg government be absolutely transparent about its expenses.
Cheers.
On the issue of transparency in S'pore, did you read about Alex Au being forced to apologize for daring to talk about the PAP's corruption in the AIM scandal? That's transparency 4 u in SG: http://therealsingapore.com/content/trs-strongly-condemn-letter-demand-served-towards-mr-alex-au
DeleteOh yes!! Don't get me started about transparency! This is one of my big issues with the existing government and one of the issues that I will regularly bring up whenever I meet with a senior civil servant.
DeleteYou made a great point earlier - at the end of the day, you make your choices and do so with your eyes wide open and considering the various factors (personal or external) and circumstances. Nothing is perfect and the world is never fair - fact!
Hi limpeh,
ReplyDeleteThanks for this blog post. It certainly cleared things up with the 'true' tax rate in the UK and Australia. Whilst they are definitely higher than Sg's, the disparity doesn't seem as great now. I won't rule out working in London after graduation now ^^
On a side note, I just completed my first term of studies at LSE. Enjoying London much :) Continue blogging!
Hello from Brussels where it has been snowing all day! Yes glad I can be of help, it just irks me that all this information is in the public domain yet so many stupid singkies don't bother verifying any of their facts before mouthing off like the ignorant idiots they are. Hence my article!
DeleteHi Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteIn Australia, there's a whole host of tax offsets and benefits to further reduce the effective tax rate (Eg. dependent relatives, medical expenses, etc). For those that are interested: http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/pathway.aspx?pc=001/002/005
According to bankwest, 73% of Australians expect to receive a tax refund in 2012. I completely agree that most Singaporeans are completely misinformed about tax in the west.
Regards,
Leon