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| What kind of management style do you prefer? |
That puzzled me as I explained to my sister that I would be working this new project pretty independently, from coming up with the concept, launching it, follow ups and monitoring the results. It's not like I am taking something that my boss wants done and then trying to complete it to his satisfaction - I'm creating something brand new for the company, taking us into new markets. My sister then explained that in Singapore, the boss would micromanage anyone doing anything like that, "so if it goes very well, then the boss will be in a position to take the credit for the success. And if it doesn't go well, then at least they are in a position to step in and help fix the problems if they were involved at some level." It sounded all pretty awful to me - if I manage to pull of a big success with my new project, I can't imagine my boss trying to take credit away from me. Rather he would gladly give me full credit for it if it is a roaring success - by the same token, he'd make me take all the blame if it flops, but he totally trusts me to take full responsibility for it.
I discussed this with another friend at my gym who is working at a research institute at the moment and she said to me, "gosh, this totally reminds me of one of my colleagues who is from China. She is smart, polite, very knowledgeable but she totally lacks initiative. She expects to be managed every step of the way and every few hours she is running to her supervisor just for approval - it's like she lacks the confidence to make any kind of decision without getting someone to tell her that it is okay. I definitely think that it is a cultural thing - I enjoy the freedom of being able to work quite independently and getting the help when I ask for it, whilst she expects her supervisor to manage her a lot more. Last week, our supervisor was on holiday - he went skiing with his wife for a week - and my Chinese colleague was trying to call him on his mobile and I was like, he's not going to answer his phone if he's flying down the side of a mountain on skis, he might not even have a signal and oh you should have seen the look of sheer panic on her face."
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| Do Asian/white stereotypes still apply in 2017? |
You see, the only real experience I've had of Asian management was quite an extreme form when I served NS but I thought that it wasn't quite representative of what it was like in the civilian - it was very artificial: there were hardly any women, few people actually got any say over what their vocations were and most of us were just trying to keep our heads down whilst waiting to ORD. This is when I am turning this over to my readers: what is it like to work under Asian management, in a very Asian company? Have you worked in an Asian company? How do Asian bosses compare to white bosses? Or are there white bosses who micromanage whilst there are Westernized Asian bosses who have a more hands-free approach to managing their staff? What has been your experiences? Do Asian bosses micromanage like this because Asian employees simply lack initiative and need to be managed like that? Leave a message below and let's talk about it. Many thanks for reading. I look forward to hearing what you have to say about this issue.
sorry LIFT my last question was not clearly. it was about the whole world government system. Do the government affect our lifestyle. (example: Education, Work, economy, and much more I guess)
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but I still don't understand what you're trying to say? The point is the government doesn't have that much influence on your education and lifestyle: the most crucial factor is how rich your parents are. If your parents are rich, they can buy you a better lifestyle, you will live in a bigger house, have more opportunities to travel, take expensive courses outside school (like learn how to play the violin), you will get a better quality of education as your parents can get you whatever help you need to ensure you get good grades, you will have a much nicer lifestyle if your parents are rich. If your parents are poor, then your lifestyle is going to suck.
DeleteNow people with poor parents are struggling against the odds, they are far less likely to get into good universities and get access to better opportunities when they finish their education and will struggle to get access to better jobs - they will earn less money than their peers who have had rich parents who provided well for them.
So I think you're barking up the wrong tree Neon. The government has far less effect on the outcome of your 'lifestyle' than the wealth of your parents. In short, you're far more likely to have a good life if your parents are rich and if your parents are poor, then the odds are stacked against you and you're more than likely to end up poor like your parents - seems pretty obvious no? You can't blame the government, but you can blame your parents on this issue.
What does it like to work in a Western company?
ReplyDeleteSee: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/q-whats-it-like-being-only-asian-in.html
DeleteTo be honest, I have never ever worked in an Asian company. My only experience of Asian management is NS. So I am not really in a position to compare because I've never had an Asian boss - I have only worked for white people before in majority-white companies. As a contractor in the past, I've had Asian colleagues before, of course, but they've always been in the minority. I suppose I could turn around and ask, "what is it like to work in a Singaporean company" - that's the kind of conversation I have with my sister because I've never worked for an Asian company before ever.
Hi LIFT
ReplyDeleteMy opinion would be your characterisation is true mainly for the older generation of Asian workers.
Some background: I currently work in a global MNC with frequent traveling and my immediate superiors are all Asians of mid thirties and above and the micromanagement is absolutely true (and driving me crazy).
My previous firm had a very much younger average age and the superiors were all in their mid to late twenties. While this might be due to the long working hours (12-14 hours a day), regular staff were pretty much autonomous.
Hi Cyle, thanks for your feedback. So my question for you is pretty much the 'which came first, the chicken or the egg' - do Asian bosses micromanage because Asian employees lack initiative (ref: my researcher friend's Chinese colleague) or does the culture of micromanagement zap any kind of initiative out of the system, turning everyone passive, too afraid to make a decision even on simple issues?
DeleteOr are the two so intermeshed that one can't start to unravel the mess?
I think the micromanagement would drive me totally nuts. I have the other problem, I ask for help and I'm sometimes told to figure it out as my bosses are too busy. It's a different kind of problem - I think there's a happy medium!
The mentioned style of micromanagement and thinking was developed during the era of industrialization where workers were not expected to be autonomous and just do what is told. I believe it is not just in Asian companies but companies which have a long history of being in factory works and management position holders from such background would exhibit such thinking.
DeleteBut as we have progressed into the digital age, where working styles have changed, management position holders are slow in shifting their thinking, especially those in large corporations.
Hmmm - you seem to be suggesting there is a white/blue collar divide? Is that a possible reason? I remember watching Survivor Worlds Apart where the contestants were split up into 3 tribes: blue, white and no collar and it was interesting to observe their mindsets.
DeleteNot exactly a white/blue collar divide but more of a industry categorial divide. Mindsets necessary for managing a factory and those necessary for managing a laboratory are different. The prevalent mindset that is recognized in most large corporations belong to that of managing factories, as a majority of such corporations were rapidly built-up from the industrial era, and thus, the do-as-you-are-told mindset.
DeleteSo is the division that between old, established companies and new start ups?
DeleteFor Japanese companies i know there is a definite blue white collar divide. Like for some companies doing manufacturing, employees aren't allowed to sit or even walk too slowly (http://gizmodo.com/5273192/canon-employees-are-forbidden-to-sit-down-walk-at-normal-pace). When i went over to a software developer's office in Japan, apart from everyone sitting up very straight staring at the screening there was no such crazy culture.
DeleteWhoopps. *Sits up straight.
DeleteI was guilty of slouching in my chair.
Eeeeks.
The sitting up straight part is more due to doctors' advice for software developers. Most of my colleagues here are very health-conscious. So there is the tendency to find the best posture to not hurt our backs.
DeleteI subscribe very much to the idea of company culture and the tone from the top. In your friend's Chinese colleague's case, she will either have to adapt and take ownership of her work or die (get a new job or remain at her current level indefinitely).
ReplyDeleteIf I had a problem I couldn't figure out myself, I will often ask my peers or the managers from different teams for help first before asking my immediate superior. (Asian saving face mentality)
How about you?
Aaah you see, the thing is I currently work in a small company in a unique position. I'm only slightly younger than my bosses who are in their 50s (I'm 40) and then there's a big gap - there are some young ones in their early 20s. My age is by that token a lot closer to my bosses than my colleagues, so I have no choice but to run to them for help, especially when I really don't know what to do/say to a difficult client. I suppose that's the Asian in me, who defaults to taking that stance. I'm nervous to say the wrong thing, make a mess so I run to the boss and say, "what do I do?! The client is asking a very difficult question, please help."
DeleteHaving said that - I did once ask a much younger colleague for help (last resort, couldn't get hold of the directors) and he was most resourceful, he gave me some good ideas. So yeah, I shouldn't be ageist at all.
DeleteHow Asian do you want? Japanese MNC with native Japanese management Asian enough for you? During my time at my previous company everyone had to clock in and out for work even though we are all white collar office workers. Then one of my previous Japanese bosses made me write and compile daily reports of the stuff i did. Also had to compile weekly reports, bi-weekly reports, monthly reports, quarterly reports, bi-annual reports and annual reports (for KPI review). Whenever i went overseas i had to compile a business trip report when i return back to Singapore. So you can see that the Japanese management love micromanaging and receiving tonnes of reports (i heard most of them never get read but that is a story for another day).
ReplyDeleteI'm only surprised they didn't monitor our toilet breaks. I heard a few years before i joined someone mooted the idea but was quickly shot down due to the difficulty in tracking required.
Urgh. That would be the complete opposite of what I am doing right now. I could never work in such an environment. I remember when I was in NS, I knew of this unit where the power-crazy officers would monitor how many times their soldiers went to the toilet because they were accusing the soldiers of goofing off in the toilet. I thought that kinda thing only happened in NS.
DeleteIt's been done before, there are Japanese companies in Singapore where the bathrooms are outside the office so they have to scan in and out with their access cards that way upper management knows the bathroom breaks.
DeleteI did wonder whether they did that in Japan as well or it's just they have a general distrust of non Japanese.
Urgh and I thought they only did that in NS?!?!
Delete@Gann Boon, when i went over to Japan, at a normal SME office of a software developer i don't see anyone going to the toilet at all. However since it was inside the office i don't think they require staff to scan out to track their toilet timings. But that is just one company. I don't dare speak for the rest of the Japanese companies.
Delete@choaniki @Gann Boon
DeleteSince I am in Japan, working as a software engineer, let me assure you that there is no tracking of toiled timings definitely. Well, I even go to convenience stores to get snacks during office hours. There is no need sort of tracking what you are doing during office hours.
But there is a golden rule that since we checked into the office, we must be contactable at all times after reporting in. There is a logical rationale behind reporting in timely as we do not work as individuals so there are definitely occasions that meetings between collaborators that are held impromptu so we need to report where we are going or rather how long will we be away from our seats as somebody might be looking for us.
I have a little away from my desk sign that I will estimate how long I will be gone for just in case, someone needs to contact me for discussions and stuff. The colleague besides me just sort of tell me when will he be back, if he needs to head out. You get the point.
To be fair though, as this article would suggests https://www.govdocs.com/can-employer-legally-monitor-time-spend-bathroom/ Such behavior seems to be hardly restricted to any particular country or culture. Even the supposedly the Western bastion of individual rights and freedom have companies that try to institute policies like that.
DeleteIt's just the unimaginative tactic of a incompetent manager eager to climb the ladder in my opinion.
I apologize if I sounded like the Japanese were some crazy micro managers but even in the US I hear horror stories about people who indulged in such micro managing behaviors.
I was shocked that people are talking about bathroom breaks but then I read the link and okay, it's some kinda blue collar factory line work environment where time spent on the factory floor is a lot more closely related to productivity. The management in my company is a mix of Welsh-American-English-South African (but all as white as they come) and they are so hands off, but we work in finance and productivity is more about coming up with bright ideas, rather than making stuff with our hands like workers in a factory.
DeleteHi LIFT, as someone who has worked in academia in California for many years and am now working in a Singaporean SME (long story), I'm tempted to say I've experienced both ends of the spectrum in terms of work environment. In the US I find that people are less micromanaged, have a more flexible working environment but slog crazy hours because of a genuine personal commitment to work (be it love/passion/go-getter mentality), whereas in the work environment in Singapore, I observe that many people work to please the boss and are genuinely content scraping by just meeting whatever bar the boss sets, and can come across as slacksters who need micromanaging, hence the vicious cycle. And I think this stems from early on in life when many Singaporean students study quite blindly to please their parents and teachers, and thus grow up to be working adults who think their job is pleasing their boss. Most people I've met don't really think about why they are doing what they are doing, both in a personal and professional sense, and the vicious micromanagement cycle punishes those who do.
ReplyDeleteOh my XM, you've given the Singaporean mindset a total condemnation - I'm agreeing with you but am tempted to play devil's advocate here: so here's a question for you in Singapore. Are there any benefits at all to the Singaporean mindset? Is it easier to get work done if everyone will do as they are told, follow instructions and the bigger picture is that the group is more cohesive because of their ability to follow instructions without asking questions?
DeleteFunny how I am a product of the Singaporean system (look my parents were PAP voting teachers for crying out aloud) yet I totally rebelled against it. I'd like to think what you described isn't inevitable. I feel sorry for my sister who is part of that system and she totally hates it.
You're quite right in pointing out that silly things like KPIs (which like exams have become ends rather than means) have played a major part in Singapore's amazing economic progress right up till the 20th century. Clear goals, clear instructions and clear rewards used to be a good model. The situation now, however, is that one government initiative after the other has failed to significantly increase productivity and innovation that the country so badly needs to stay ahead in the game. Personally, I think it is precisely these self-defeating management styles you pointed out in your post which have caused this low productivity/innovation rut. I don't doubt for a second that the Singapore education system is capable of producing critical thinkers and highly motivated people, but if society doesn't find a way to accommodate and facilitate these people, they will either leave, or just conform to the less-than-impressive average mold. But having said that, is there any easy way to rework the fabric of an entire society? Flinging money around from the top doesn't strike me as a particularly good way of doing it, but hey, I don't claim to have better ideas.
DeleteI'm just surprised that more people like my sister who hate the system don't just pack up and leave.
DeleteWell the Singaporean mindset worked post independence.
DeleteWe were a multi racial/cultural country and as xm said there was a need to establish the practice of clear goals, instructions and rewards so that anyone who wants to benefit from the system knows what to do. It sounds simple, but our immediate neighbors have consistently failed to achieve that because they succumb to the easy model of racial policies and nepotism.
I would even argue that precisely because our neighbors are unable to move past that it instill a sense of relative arrogance in Singaporeans. We know Malaysia and Indonesia can't compete with us (at least currently) there's no pressure for us to change and adapt. Our closest equivalent would probably be Israel, I'm sure we could all agree they aren't sitting back on their laurels.
It's hard though. Our bureaucracy functions too efficiently ( I know it doesn't feel that way, but you haven't deal with American bureaucracy). The society is too orderly and doesn't accommodate chaos very well. That leaves very little room for critical thinkers and highly motivated people to step up to fix problems and offer alternative solutions. The US legal system functions on if there are no exact language prohibiting it, then it's no holds barred. Even then, you could challenge the system with lawyers.
@Limpeh
DeleteWell to be fair. she is already established in Singapore. Life in Singapore isn't perfect but there is some degree of security and stability. It may not seem that way to us but it's highly attractive to some foreigners who have families who wants a safe environment to bring up their kids. The streets of San Francisco are littered with the homeless and mentally unstable, you would not want to raise a child in that city.
Unless you're in such a high value profession or in a large corporation that could support that move it's extremely unpleasant as you try to establish yourself, worse if you have family.
This article was shard on Facebook by a friend of mine and someone commented that millennials are the ones who need micromanaging as opposed to Gen X people - us older folks were brought up with a different mentality. Oooh, is this a generation gap thing?
ReplyDeletePersonally I find the argument ridiculous.
DeleteHow could you expect people fresh out of college to not need micromanaging to some degree, at least initially? They're young and inexperienced, unless you're lucky and get an unicorn you're going to have to train them and instruct them on how things work. Any education they received is outdated the moment they graduate.
Every generation complains about the generation after them. I get frustrated when the baby boomers tell me how good I have it(I'm Gen X).
It really depends. Let me relate my story:
ReplyDeleteI started off with the Singapore civil service, and yes, they simply love to micromanage in ways that your sister described. Paradoxically however, as the "foot soldier", I was somehow also expected to "value-add" my work. So I might get screwed by the boss today for moving faster than the snail-paced civil service, and get screwed again the next for not taking the initiative (no incentive to). I concluded eventually that it's more than the mind-set of "management". Oh no - it's about how my time, effort or even presence wasn't valued at all. I got fed up, and resigned. Typical story of many civil servants who felt they simply couldn't "play the game".
I then joined an angmoh-centric research institute. This one was more "western" (however you put it earlier), and I was allowed to have my leeway in most cases. The trouble was the bosses were bloody incompetent and then I often got the short-end of the stick (because I am not the boss duh). So macro-management in this case simply led to disaster pretty soon and I lasted an even shorter time here when I decided to end the relationship on my own accord. "Western" simply didn't work here, and it boils down to the universal concept of COMPETENCE.
I then joined a small IT start-up, and because of my experience and contacts from the projects I have done, I became what most Singaporeans would know to be "2IC". My boss is an Asian, but schooled in USA for 6 years. Here I am given freedom like Limpeh. I absolutely adore what I am doing now and I am doing anything it takes to sustain our operations (I assure you it's bloody hard). I govern my own set of projects even though I still report to my boss, and we both do sales/operations separately, but not before agreeing on the gameplan in many cases. I am trusted enough to make my own decisions and I don't even have a "leave system" imposed on me (we simply don't get to makan that day).
Therefore I have experienced much of the spectrum of "management" styles from western to asian and even fusion. My conclusion? Luck plays a big role - if your boss is bloody incompetent, no "good" management style would save you, maybe only Heaven could in all honesty.
Hi NTYS
Deletecould I ask if that research institute you mentioned is in Singapore or ...?
Part of the reason I chose to go San Francisco is after my work experience with an Australian management I became really disgusted with the competence level of ang mohs in Singapore. I figured that the cream of the crop would be well established in their own country and I wanted to learn from them in their home turf, not from the ones that couldn't make it.
Of course, it's just one company and I'm willing to accept that I might just had bad luck.
For the incompetence of superiors, I suspect it might be more of Peter principle at play, rather than just blatant incompetence. I sort of figure that out after switching 3 different companies. I used to have a colleague who was a extremely competent engineer till he got promoted to a managerial position and kept screwing up. The management role is just not suitable for him.
Delete@Bay - sorry to hear about your bad experience with angmohs in Singapore, but I hope you wouldn't tar all white people with the same brush. I've come across strange/bad management before and good ones - I guess it depends on the quality of the company. Great companies tend not to hire bad people, but some get through the cracks regardless. May I make a suggestion? With big companies, there's a principle whereby the majority of competent people can carry a minority of incompetent ones - ie. it's big enough for them to hide the incompetent ones, the crap ones who someone got their jobs due to nepotism. (I'm sure there's a Chinese Chengyu for that but I can't remember as I'm so tired now - something about a guy who can't pay the musical instrument hiding in an orchestra and faking it.) But in a small company, there's no where to hide, if you try working for a much smaller company, then you may be a lot happier there. Just a thought mate.
Delete@WeiPing, I did this psychometric test a few years back and they separated us into 3 kinds of people: leaders, followers and 'specialists' - of course, I fell into the last category, ie. neither a leader nor a follower. I am good at what I do, leave me the hell alone, let me get on with it, don't manage me too much but don't give me anyone to manage either. I'm good at what I do but just let me focus on my work and don't make me manage people.
I guess your ex-colleague's the same?
@LIFT
DeleteYup. Oh, I too, once had a pathetic experience at a team lead position, in which I totally gave up on trying to do task delegations and scheduling. I ended up doing everything myself, which probably makes me a lousy team lead. So now, I shy away from any form of lead positions. I will just sit back quietly and make new things.
After having a few conversations with fellow engineers, I realized that I am not the only one who harbor such behaviors. There are lots of senior, highly-skilled engineers who shy away from all sorts of lead positions and just remain subject matter expert. We really suck at team management.
As a matter of fact, there exist a common experience within some of the teams I used to work with. In the eyes of management, the "Team Lead" position is supposed to be the most-coveted position in development. But in the eyes of developers, the "Team Lead" positions will be thrown to the person who has the most social skills and having the least amount of task assigned. Almost every single developer avoided the position, excluding those junior developers. It eventually developed into the joke of those who know the role best, displays the most amount of effort to not assume it.
Delete