 |
| My parents are not on the internet. |
I've complained many times that my parents have no idea what the hell I do for a living and that if they only tried to understand, they might actually be proud of me. I used to think they just plain hate me but again, the more rational part of me reaches for this explanation. I was once on a long train journey with my friend Darren and I saw he was playing a game on his phone - I was bored so I asked him, what is that game you're playing. He tried explaining but it was so complicated that he lost me halfway and I smiled politely, feigning interest but really I had decided that I didn't understand and couldn't be asked to try. We naturally lose interest in things we simply don't understand and don't need to understand: my parents are retired, they have a generous pension, they don't need to ever work ever again - their attitude towards my work is pretty much the same as my attitude towards Darren's computer game. It is nothing personal, Darren is still a very good friend even if I don't understand how his computer game works.
Now I had the chance to view my parents interact with my nephew up close when they visited me in London last year - I have stopped being surprised at just how badly they misfire on so many levels as grandparents. I get it: their own kids are involved in the modern working world, dealing with things they can never ever understand even if they tried, but aha their grandson is only a boy and they can understand his world, right? Well, not if this boy is a computer geek and has grown up with the internet. My nephew is going to be 14 this year and is obsessed with computer games - that's the one passion in his life that my parents don't even know where to begin to try to understand and they don't even try. Like my parents, my nephew is autistic but he has shown vast improvements in recent years. Instead, they tend to fuss over the things that they do understand in a way that makes me roll my eyes in complete disbelief.
 |
| Who's going to tell my parents they are making a big mistake? |
For example, we were in a Thai restaurant and there was a rather spicy dipping sauce that I thought was really delicious. However, when my parents tasted the dipping sauce, they decided that it was too spicy for my nephew and they told him not to eat it. My nephew doesn't like being told he can't do something, so I tried a different tact: I told him to try a bit of the sauce for himself and he can then decide if he likes it or not and if he wants to dip his meat in it. My nephew did just that and told me that it is quite spicy but it also has a very interesting flavour, it is more than just a chili sauce but contains a lot of other Thai spices as well, so he shall put a little bit on his food. So my nephew was perfectly capable of arriving at a very logical conclusion but my parents? Oh no, they were not happy with the situation at all simply because I had given my nephew the 'permission' to overrule their original decision that the sauce was too spicy for my nephew. My mother kept saying, "no, that sauce is too spicy for you, don't eat it!" I just rolled my eyes in total disbelief, as if my nephew was going to eat something he didn't enjoy, nobody was forcing him to eat it. I thought my nephew had just proven himself to be far more rational and sensible than his grandparents, yet they were the ones insisting on treating him like an idiot - oh the irony. I was ready to lose my patience with my unreasonable parents but thankfully my nephew was either too polite to say anything or he chose to ignore my parents.
My parents are so fond of their grandson and their relationship with my nephew brings them a lot of joy - I'm glad something does because their relationship with their son is terrible and we barely talk. Nonetheless, there is a part of me that does want to see my parents happy, even if I cannot be a source of that joy for them and here's my worry. They were terrible parents and to be fair, they have tried their best to be good grandparents but goodness me, they are utterly clueless. They have the best intentions of course but that doesn't change the fact that they do and say all the wrong things, much to my frustration. You see, my parents are retired primary school teachers - so they are quite used to treating children like idiots but do they know how to communicate with teenagers who are fast becoming highly educated and tech-savvy? Not at all. That's why I became more and more distant from my parents the moment I became a teenager. The same thing is happening with my nephew now. History is repeating itself one generation on.
 |
| My parents do not even trust my nephew with choices about food. |
In an abusive relationship, the abused doesn't need to actually be an idiot to allow themselves to be treated like an idiot - you just have to break their self-esteem to the point where they allow themselves to be overruled by the abuser all the time. I see a toxic relationship like that as an abusive one - my parents are not just doting grandparents who want to fuss over their grandson, oh no no no, they go a lot further to do things which are just plain wrong. Every time I see my parents with my nephew, they refuse to let him make even the most simple decisions and even if he expresses any kind of opinion, he is always overruled. I was so disturbed by what was going on; I saw this as a kind of abuse, whereby my parents were systematically breaking down his self-confidence by continuously telling him he wasn't capable of the most simple, mundane tasks. I knew if my sister tried to say anything, my parents would throw such a massive tantrum, insisting that they have done everything in the best interest of their beloved grandson.
Recently my nephew got into a big argument with someone over Instagram (let's not get into it now) and my sister was like, let's not even tell our parents about it as my parents have no idea what Instagram is, never mind be in any position to be helpful. All they will say is, "oh don't let boy-boy use this Instagram thing lah if it is going to be liddat" because that's the only solution they can offer - but you can't tell a teenage boy that he shouldn't use social media in 2017. It was the kind of complex, modern teenage problem that my parents couldn't even begin to get their heads around - that's why my sister chose to speak to me about it and see if I had any solutions to offer. So begins the pattern where we are keeping things from my parents - not deliberately to alienate them, but we just don't see the point about telling them about stuff they won't even begin to understand: like the dynamics of social media and how that affects young people. But we seem to have arrived in this situation which I shall summarize with a Venn diagram.
What is it with parents and grandparents who do not like the idea of their 'baby' growing up? Why can't they let go and accept reality? I think it is a good thing, I am actually impressed with the way my nephew has shown moments of maturity, when he has proven to be quite sensible (unlike my parents - who seem to be less and less sensible as they grow older). The fact is my nephew is growing up quite quickly as a teenager and it seems like I am the only one who has had the audacity to tell my parents to stop treating him like a total idiot - for he is no longer a young, helpless child. I am not sure what is going on in my parents' heads - maybe they do want him to be a total idiot unable to make even the most simple decisions for himself, so he will be totally dependent on them and thus they can retain more power over him. They are just totally oblivious to the fact that he is a teenager interested in the modern world they want nothing to do with and they soon wouldn't have a clue what is going on in his life. You see their very warped idea of 'love' is to continue treating him like a total idiot - which I can at best label as unhelpful, but in reality it is plain toxic.
 |
| When is my nephew going to get fed up with his grandparents? |
But wait, it gets worse: whenever my nephew reacts negatively to my parents' unreasonable behaviour, my parents will blame everyone (including my nephew) but never themselves. They have this blind spot - they think they're perfect and blameless. They have accused so many people of trying to drive a wedge between them and their beloved grandson - like seriously, who on earth would want to do something like that? I think it is inevitable that the day will come when they push my nephew over the edge by treating him like an idiot, overruling him on an issue that he clearly has an opinion about and it will lead to unpleasant consequences. They will only have themselves to blame for their stupidity but knowing them, they will blame and hate everyone else. Sigh, if only they would just listen to others for a moment - but no, they would never ever listen to a word anyone else says, because in their minds, they are perfect and never make mistakes and if you're so perfect, why do you ever need to listen to someone else's opinion?
You know, I think there's a very valuable skill in being able to take responsibility for your mistakes. It is hugely empowering. I remember once I made a mistake at work and I had to deal with the consequences of my mistake (which wasn't pleasant). At first, I went into denial: this can't be happening, this can't be as bad as it seems. Then I went into victim mode: this is someone else's fault, you can't blame me for this, I am not responsible for this mess. Neither methods of coping made me feel any better about the situation until I went to acceptance: okay, I messed up. I made this mistake because I rush through the process without paying attention to the details. Once I took responsibility for my mistake, then I was in a position to analyze where I went wrong and most importantly, how I can avoid making that mistake again in the future. I emerged from that feeling empowered, knowing that I had learnt my lesson and I'm just that I've become wiser from the experience. So each time I make a mistake in life, I become a better person.
 |
| Are you taking responsibility for your mistakes and not blaming others? |
But in my parents' case, they never ever get to the part where they accept responsibility and look back at where they could have gone wrong. No, they get stuck on the part where they blame everyone around them and feel like a blameless victim. They never learn from their mistakes and that is why they are still making the same mistakes that they were making back in the 1980s. It is intensely frustrating for me of course as I can see exactly what is going on, I want to see if I can help prevent this catastrophe from happening. But the moment I try to point this out to them, I am dismissed as being disrespectful and rude - how dare I criticize my parents? Are my parents so arrogant that they think they are more intelligent than everyone around them? No far from it, in fact I think that they realize that it is quite the opposite, but they have such low self-esteems that they are terribly afraid of people looking down on them. There's this Chinese thing about 'saving face' - that explains why they never ever admit that they are in the wrong because they are afraid they will 'lose face' as a result. It seems like a pretty dumb ass strategy but a lot of Chinese culture is really that bloody dumb and my parents do not question the dumber aspects of stupid Chinese culture.
Do my parents genuinely think that my nephew is a total idiot? Actually, I don't know, well I hope not. I certainly don't think that he is. However, they are unprepared to treat him like an adult - after all, they had no idea how to deal with me as I turned into an adult. Our relationship deteriorated rapidly as I got into the habit of correcting them whenever they did or said something wrong: I would accuse them of being ignorant and they would accuse me of being disrespectful. I suppose it must be tough for them, as elderly folks who are fast losing touch with all the latest developments in our modern world. Everyday, something they are familiar with becomes obsolete and young people become obsessed with something totally foreign. At some level, they must feel lost (if not totally overwhelmed) by all this that is happening and perhaps the only one person in their lives who knows less than them about the world is their beloved grandson - well, that may have been the case when my nephew was 6 years old, but now that he's going to be 14, I don't think that is the case anymore - but who's going dare to tell my parents that? That's why they treat my nephew like this because they want to continue to believe (for as long as they can) that they are still smarter than him.
Ok Limpeh. Lets just skip to the argument. look i am not blaming everyone for my life. in fact i am happy and grateful. i need your advice and information about Singapore system and the outside world clearly you know more than me. i am just a average teenager. who knows nothing about Singapore system and outside world. and i am not trying to sympathy you guys. i am just expressing my question like what you said. i understand what you are going through. i have work part time before. so pls lets just forget the argument point. i will try to be mature. lets just cooperate and tell each other about what is going on in this world. because we are not going anywhere if we keep making argument about each other.
ReplyDeleteYou need me more than I need you. You don't realize that I have had 8.95 million pageviews and I get a few thousand readers every single day. I can ignore you if I want. I can insult you if I want. I can be nice if I want. There is a part of me that feels sorry for you because you are fed lies everyday by your parents and the Singaporean government - like this whole bullshit thing about houses, where do I even begin? You are so completely brainwashed by so many lies you are told, everyday, since you were young, you need to realize that you don't even have the right information to begin with because you are fed LIES all the time. Like this whole bullshit thing about 40% tax - that is completely untrue. The tax system in the UK is complicated but fair. The nurse or waitress who earns very little money pays very little tax, the doctor or investment banker who earns millions pay more taxes but hey, even though the nurse gets to keep virtually all of her earnings, she is still earning very little money whilst the banker who pays a lot more taxes is still filthy rich and can afford to buy anything he desires from a sports car to a huge house. You don't seem to have the slightest clue about how managing one's finances work - I don't even know where to begin with you. You're naive, you're misinformed and your mind has been poisoned by the lies they have been feeding you in Singapore. You're not even asking the right questions to begin with.
DeleteThe one lie that they keep feeding you young people in Singapore is that life in Singapore is better than the West, which is completely bullshit. Life is what you make of it, your standard of living, your quality of life depends not on the government not on the country's GDP but on your qualifications, what kind of job you are qualified for and how much money you can earn. That's why I go on and on about taking responsibility for your own future because your fate really does lie in your hands: you want a good life you have to earn it for yourself and not expect anyone else to give them to you.
DeleteAnd that's why I feel sorry for you - not because you're in ITE, but because your mind has been poisoned by so many lies (you told me that your mother has fed you so many lies as such - because she is totally brainwashed by the PAP). That's why I want to encourage you to search for information independently rather than believe the stupid lies that you are fed.
Ahh yes I was aware of the Singapore government.I don't trust them either
Deletethat's why I need your advice(not help) to tell me what is going on in Singapore. I feel sorry for my parent who believe Singapore is better than west. now I know that you have a lot of comment that's ok take your time.
GalaxyLordEX, I think what is most important is that you have cross that barrier that Singapore is a country which looks down on ITE students. Sometimes it is time to reconsider is it the environment that you are in that causes such thinking? Like for example does your friends have stereotypes that JC kids are very "well behaved (乖), follow the rules, smart etc.?" Maybe its time that you should explore different opinions from different types of people, or in fact I would suggest that you start hanging around different types of people like what LIFT suggests, to broaden your landscape of world. This is an age of the Internet whereby building networks with a wide range of people is highly possibility, somethings the older generation do not have the luxury of, and hence, will never understand this different way of building networks.
DeleteIn Singapore, we are not given a chance to make decisions by ourselves. Although ITE is meant to a school that teach vocational skills, it is obvious that our first choice would be a JC if our results permit, isn't it? Although Singapore has different political parties fighting for an election, it is obvious which party most people would think is the right choice, isn't it? Akthough you can choose if you want to be commander (a sergeant/officer) in NS, it is obvious that most people would think saying "YES" would be the right choice even if you do not
Deletewant to.
But this is not the case in the West. In Germany, you choose which educational route you want to go and both choices - be it technical and academical, has equal status in the society in the sense that no one will look down on a student who chooses the technical route. In USA, no one will say that choosing Trump as the President a "wrong or immature decision" despite there are a handful who disagree of course, but there is no superiority in choosing either. In Switzerland, you can vote whether you want homosexual marriage to be legalized or remove conscription and nobody will see it is "wrong" to choose either and both choices be it for or against, have a handful of people on each side.
You see, in Singapore we are trained in such a way that we have only the "right choice" to choose from. But the world does not work that way. In the future, it will be a generation of more choices and data, higher accessibility of information. The world will be flooded with information and hence you and I will need an important skill to survive (mean lead a meaningful life) in the future: an ability to make decisions independently. You will need to filter biased, fake or even unimportant information to a decision and you cannot depend on people to help you judge. You have to learn how to judge by yourself. You have to learn to take the responsibility and wait for people to give responsibility to you. That is the difference between the West and Singapore.
Cool. thank you so much. but I don't think JC student will look down on ITE. because my uncle study JC and he never look down on me instead he gave me advice I am grateful to have a nice uncle. :)
DeleteWell done Ruther, you're a lot more patient than me!
DeleteGalaxy, you're basing your opinion on ONE nice person. Yeah just because you have a nice uncle who went to JC, that means that your uncle is a nice person - it doesn't mean that ALL JC students are anything like your uncle. For crying out aloud, your opinion is based on the sample size of ONE. Good grief. How fucking stupid are you? Oh and that's from another ex JC student and I'm looking down on you. Heck, I've got nothing against ITE students, I've just had it with you coming here spouting idiotic rubbish. Like I get idiots who come here to troll all the time, but you are genuinely stupid.
Deleteyeah I am aware of that. not every JC student will not be nice like my uncle. but why would they look down on ite.
DeleteHoly crap, you're not seriously thaaaat naive are you?
DeleteWhy would a rich man look down on a poor man?
Why would an intelligent man look down on a stupid man?
Why would you thin, beautiful woman look down on a fat, ugly woman?
Are you really as naive as you come across? Human nature is scary, men are capable of being so evil and nasty and you seem to think that people will not look down on you despite you being at the bottom of the academic food chain in Singapore.
Ruther, he's all yours. I can't fix this.
i was just wondering. and I am not that scary ;)
DeleteGalaxyLord, why are you so concerned about the perceptions of others about you? LIFT was trying to make the point that you should be less concerned about the views of others as no matter where you go in this world, you would always be discriminated and judged by others.
DeleteIt is impossible to get every single person or every single community to have a favourable view of you. So instead of wasting your efforts to seek affirmation from others, you should be putting efforts into improving yourself or achieving something tangible. When you produce results, people will tend to start having a more favourable view of you.
In case of me not carrying the point blunt enough, stop asking if people view or discriminate against ITE or you? What have you achieved that deserves recognition? The world is simple in the form that if you have achievements to boast about, people respect you no matter, what your background is.
To put it even more simply, who do you think commands more respect, an application developer who is an ITE graduate, or the taxi driver, who graduated with Masters in Computer Science?
Yeah you're right. I should be improving myself.and thanks for your advice
Delete14 is not that uninformed little kid anymore. You have to correct that Venn diagram from "Things your parent don't understand" to "Things your parent understand", and shrink that area more.
ReplyDeletePoint aside, there is not much you can do or you should do that would possible improve the situation. Until the day your parents can bring themselves around to acknowledging that there is too much things out there in the world that they do not understand but you or you nephew might, the relationship between your nephew and your parents are in for a very bumpy ride. If you try to interfere, you would only be adding toxicity into it. I had similar experiences within my family, it did not need 2 generations for me to experience something similar. The only thing that I could do, was not to take any side, get both sides to cool out the situation.
Hi Weiping, it's so bizarre the way there are gaps in the way my parents interact with my nephew; like when he is on the internet, my parents don't know what this 'internet' thing is, so they leave him to his own devices and even if he wants to look at porn, yeah he can do that. He's 14 for crying out aloud, that's what teenage boys do. But the internet is beyond my parents' limited understanding of the world, so they do not interfere so as to speak. Whereas when it comes to something stupid like the chilli sauce in a Thai restaurant - oh now it's something they understand and they make such a big fuss about the chilli sauce in a way which I think is utterly, totally ridiculous. They understand how chllli sauce works, they don't understand how Instagram works - erm, can you see how their 'interventions' become more and more bizarre and less and less helpful? My nephew will have serious concerns, serious issues in his life and my parents are going to pick on the strangest, most minor issues (ref: chilli sauce) to fuss over: they're going to be less and less helpful and become just plain bizarre, irritating, annoying.
DeleteRef: my other comments as well.
Actually, I am not sure about this, but according the 'Grown Up Infants' (巨婴) book I mentioned in a previous comment, the books says that as a person learns how to grow up, they will start reacting against the demands by authoritative parents who are apparently not prepared for the child's transition to an adult. This can go as far as having the thought of killing your parents, and it appears to be quite common in Chinese teenagers.
ReplyDeleteThis is because in Chinese culture, there is no concept of 'self'. We as a being are only defined as one by the society, the authority and peers. Hence, that is why face (面子) is important to Chinese people. Because without face, you cannot be defined as a being hence you are not fit to be human even.
There are cases in China that evidently demonstrates unhealthy relationships with parents (particularly mothers) seeing their child (or grandchild) as their extension). There are mums who commit suicide just because their sons are obsessed with computer games and refuse to listen to them. There are also cases whereby mums literally knock her child down wuth their car when the child scored low in his Gaokao exam (equivalent to A levels in SG).
Although these cases do not appear often in Singapore, but I do see such a trend coming with children commit suicide as a headstart. Hence, I would like to ask if you know of anyone who had thoughts of killing their parents?
Hi Ruther, thanks for your comment. Yeah I did have someone come here and suggest that - apparently s/he had been driven crazy by his/her parents and has contemplated that. I told that person that s/he just needs to get away from his/her parents if the relationship has deteriorated to that point - then distance is the only solution. It takes 2 hands to clap, if you have a bad relationship with your parents but they are unable/unwilling to do anything about the situation, then no amount of sitting down with a shrink can help: you just have to put a few time zones between you and your parents and get on with your life. My poor nephew doesn't have that option.
DeleteWhat upsets me is the way I strongly feel that it is necessary to empower my nephew with decision making powers, just to help build his confidence - whilst my parents go out of their way to do the opposite and are willing to overrule him over something dumb like chilli sauce. I don't even think that they are doing this deliberately - to conjure up an abusive relationship to trap him in their power, but isn't that so much worse? For them to fuck up so badly despite having the best intentions, only because they are so bloody stupid and too stubborn to listen to someone like me? Sigh.
You need a psychiatrist for your own mummy issues before worrying about your nephew
ReplyDeleteApple, there are people on my blog who try to be helpful and there are people like you who are just trying to be as mean and nasty as possible. Look, I am an extremely honest blogger - that's part of the attraction, that's why people like reading my blog, I'm not some pretentious 'social influencer' trying to make you use this brand of make up or getting you to buy this particular brand of clothing. Look, I was brought up by parents who are clearly autistic and on top of that, my mother's health was never good, there were so many cultural, health and psychological issues that prevented them from being good parents and they made many mistakes along the way. I never pretended to be this wonderful, perfect person - I'm an honest person who has struggled against the odds and has learnt many valuable lessons along the way, which I have shared on my blog. I'm not afraid to make mistakes, as long as I am humble enough to learn my lessons from them.
DeleteYou on the other hand, wade in here with one judgmental statement like that - you sound like a total bitch in real life. I would have no desire to want to know you in real life. It's an extremely selfish attitude - yes I am flawed but you know what, I am also a caring and kind person, I know there's no hope for my relationship with my parents: we are estranged, we don't talk. What is the point of me visiting a shrink and saying to the shrink all this? The shrink is just going to turn around and say, "Alex, let it go, you're an adult and you need to move on with your life." There's a huge difference between going into denial and pretending that I never had a terrible childhood vs actually talking about it, so we can deal with it - I am choosing the latter.
Believe it or not, I still care about my parents: I want them to be happy even without me in their lives, I want them not to fuck up this relationship with their grandson. I want my nephew to have a healthy, happy relationship with his grandparents. I want my sister and my brother in law to be able to get along happily with everyone in their family without conflict. My first instinct is always to care about others whilst I deal with my own problems in my own way - but no, you want me to put my own problems first? That's fucked up man, that's so selfish, you may wanna go through life as a selfish prick, but that's so not me.
Now fuck off back to your selfish world and be nasty to the people in your life. You think you're being smart in coming here being a bitch - well, I'm calling you out. You're a nasty piece of shit who doesn't deserve love. I hope you die in your own selfish toxic poison.
@Apple, woah...someone is cranky today!! What's the matter, girlfriend dumped your sorry ass? Or maybe you don't have a girlfriend and are still living with your parents who took away your internet rights for trolling on the internet.
DeleteHey Choaniki, maybe Apple is a woman?
DeleteDefinitely a guy. I recognise his handle since he has commented several times in the past.
Delete"Mummy issues"! Lol! That was nasty!
DeleteGalaxy Lord, how old are you exactly? I am asking out of curiosity because I can't believe there are young people like you in Singapore who are so clueless given the amount of time they spend on the internet. Read extensively, my dear boy.
Di - it's Apple who is the bitch here, not Galaxy.
DeleteI know. I was addressing on two different people. Should have been clearer. Thanks.
DeleteApple seems more like a female than male, Choaniki.
A quick question/comment off the top of my head: Can your nephew's parents do more to better 'educate' your parents on the appropriate ways to communicate? I will think that your sister has the responsibility (and the moral right) to "stand up" for your nephew and set the table straight. It's definitely much more powerful and appropriate if his parents are the ones to dictate what sort of grandparent-grandchild interactions are beneficial.
ReplyDeleteDoes your sister (as a parent) concur with your thoughts about your nephew?
If I were in your sister's shoes, I would have told my parents off: "My children, my rules. Treat my son with respect or else no more grandpa visits"!
On a more light-hearted note, the "my kids, my rules" may also resonate with your father - it seems congruent with his way of thinking.
My sister and bro-in-law have as little influence on my parents as I do - you see, my parents just plain don't listen. They think that by listening to another person's opinion, that makes them in the wrong and they will lose face (ref: Ruther's excellent explanation above). If they ever push an agenda, I've seen it before - my parents scream and shout, throw a MASSIVE tantrum and they don't need reason when they have volume. If I may be ever so blunt, look my parents are not highly educated, they are not enlightened, reasonable people - they are quite the opposite. It is completely impossible to have a normal conversation with them - for starts, well they never listen to a word we say. Then when we repeat ourselves to get the message through, they just shout and scream - my mother would resort to tears my father would resort to volume. The last time my dad screamed at me, he was totally unable to stick to the topic and brought up totally random things to scream to me about (including things that had nothing to do with me at all).
DeleteIn short, it is IMPOSSIBLE to reason with people who are incapable of being reasonable or never mind reasonable, they're not even logical at the best of times.
Dave, sometimes things aren't that easy. I believe LIFT's sister is in a "victim's position" when she communicates with their mother, an “authoritarian figure". This is what strikes the mind of a "victimized" person. My guess would be that her mother must have in one way or another "threaten" her daughter to listen to her or she will face the "consequences" for not listening to an "experienced caregiver"（不听老人言，吃亏在眼前）. This will instantly remind LIFT's sister about how she was oppressed when young and she would instantly revert back to the child mentality of being "lectured" by a mother. All she needs to do is to say "YES" once and she will find it difficult to reject subsequent requests by her mother, regardless of how ridiculous they are. You need a certain amount of courage and willpower to fight against this imaginary fist knocking onto your head, and the price to pay would be an estranged relationship with your parents. I would say that LIFT's nephew has to take initiative to fight against it, despite it being rather challenging to untangle himself from this unhealthy relationship bounded by his grandparents, considering his condition.
ReplyDeleteOnce again Dr Ruther has hit the nail on the head.
DeleteYou remember when I talked about the 'best case scenario' - ie. my sister is super nice to my parents, they offer virtually nothing in return and don't know what she does for a living. That's why I said I chose not to try to mend things with my parents because I see my sister's example and how she has presented to me what the 'best case scenario' is and it's deeply dissatisfying. They are like, of course she's good to us, she's our daughter, it's her obligation to serve us and do as we demand. And I'm like, she bends over backwards to give you everything you want yet you offer virtually nothing in return emotionally? Well screw that, that's a pretty shitty deal I want no part of. But my sister is soooo conditioned by her culture that she does all that automatically, without questioning whether she is getting a good deal or not.
That's why I talk about the nature of an abusive relationship - you just need to convince the victim that their opinion doesn't matter, that they don't deserve to be treated any better and in so doing, you destroy their self-esteem and they in turn submit to your will. That's exactly what they've done to my sister but I refuse to let them do that to me. And Ruther is once again right - the price I paid for standing up to my parents is a totally estranged relationship with them.
How will my nephew react? Will he take my route or my sister's route? Judging from what I've seen so far, he will do what my sister does. He takes after his mother. My sister never ever stood up to my parents and neither will my nephew, no matter how toxic that relationship becomes.
@Ruther, you sound like you are analysing using Sigmund Freud's defence mechanism know as "regression". Do you agree with Freud's theories in this day and age? Didn't alot of modern psychologists dismiss most of his theories as inadequate?
DeleteHi Ruther, yes I can see what is happening to LIFT's sister. Unfortunately, I doubt that LIFT's nephew will take the initiative to "fight" or untangle the grandparent-nephew relationship. Given the enmeshment of the parents-daughter/grandparents-nephew relationships, LIFT's nephew will face a double-whammy; he will have to deal with his grandparents, as well as a mother who inevitable condones such poor interactions.
DeleteConsidering the relatively young age of LIFT's nephew and his other social-emotional difficulties, his parents are the main pillars of support in navigating complex life situations, including the grandparents-nephew relationship.
I hope that LIFT's sister will find ways to empower herself to be a "parent in her own right". If there is a time for LIFT's sister to stand up against her parents, there can be no better time than to stand up for her own son.
My sister puzzles me at times - she is so incredibly intelligent and capable, yet at times, she puts her incredible brain aside and does as she is told because she is conditioned by her culture to do so. That's where she and I differ - I spit on my Chinese culture and have done everything I can to show my parents I hate Chinese culture, yet my sister embraces it for whatever reason I can't understand; as if Chinese culture has done her any good? All that sexism it has inflicted on her in the name of Chinese culture.
DeleteI just feel sad for my sister in her inability to reject her culture for it has done her nothing but harm. Her mind is poisoned by her culture - that's the only way I can explain it because she is otherwise an incredibly intelligent person who makes very poor choices and then justifies it in the name of being Chinese. Go figure.
@choaniki, I am not Ruther. But just a comment if you don't mind. The concept of "regression" is not entirely just a Freud's thing. Later Psychodynamic theories and psycho-analytic therapies include regression as well.
DeleteI have experienced multiple instances of 'regression' from some of my clients/patients with personality disorders or with post-traumatic stress disorder.
oh yeah limpeh why would you say PAP(Singapore politics) lied to Singaporeans?
ReplyDeleteI don't understand your question, because it is not a question of debate - of course the PAP lies all the time, they have been doing so for decades and Singaporeans are so brainwashed that they do not question the lies they are told, they just believe whatever crap the PAP tells them. The PAP resorts to such lies to stay in power, so brainwashed people like your parents will continue to vote for them. In so doing, they get to stay in power election after election.
DeleteI mean what kind of lies that they told singaporeans?
DeleteGeez I don't even know where to begin. You're so brainwashed that you don't even know the difference between truth and lies. I am not going to spend my weekend trying to educate you. You're beyond hope. You've been lied to your entire life and you don't even realize it? I give up.
Deletejust give me one example. that's all I need( instead of tax)
DeleteI can't fix you - you're so incredibly ignorant, it's like you know so little, you are so naive. I can't educate you. You have failed in the Singaporean education system and ended up in ITE - what makes you think I can change you? No, go somewhere else, don't bother me. I can't fix you. You're damaged goods that I can't repair.
DeleteSo.. are you gonna tell me the truth about Singapore system or not?
DeleteNo.
DeleteYou are so ignorant. Gosh, you know so little. It's like speaking to a 5 year old child sometimes. Other teenagers your age know so much more about the real world but you - I don't know, your have parents who never taught you any better, you didn't pay attention in school and you come running to me as if I can fix this?
What makes you think I want to fix this? Quite frankly, I don't give a damn if you go through life ignorant or not. Am I your uncle? Your teacher? No, I'm just some damn stranger on the internet.
You have a terrible attitude, you've told me your parents are not much help and you've fared badly in the Singaporean education system and you're in a terrible mess. I can't fix this. Telling you the 'truth' about the Singaporean system isn't going to fix anything. Why should I spend time and effort talking to someone like you? In Chinese, we have a saying for you: 无药可救
Auntie Ruther and Uncle Weiping have been very kind and patient with you. If they want to answer your questions, it is their choice. I'll approve your questions but I'm not giving you any more of my attention.
Alright fine I will just find it all by myself
Delete@ GalaxyLord Ex
Delete1 example of the lies PAP has fed the masses? Let's start with "every creed and every race, has its own and has its place".
If "every creed" has an equal standing in Singapore society, why are Jehovah's Witnesses jailed by default for not doing NS? Why can't a separate arrangement be made for them to serve in public service (e.g. assistants at hospitals, admin clerks in various government sectors etc.) instead of locking them up once they turn 18?
What about LGBTs? "Every creed" should include LGBTs right? Let's not even talk about gay marriages - Why is 377A still around today?
If every race/religion is equal, why are there fewer (or no) Malays in highly sensitive military positions?
I think at some point in his life, your nephew will find it a hassle to deal with his grandparents and naturally drift out of their lives. I mean he has so many interesting things to keep him occupied like the newest Pokemon games, maybe even a girlfriend in the future.
ReplyDeleteI have a younger brother who is slightly autistic, he is high functioning so i think he has Aspergers. The thing about Asperger sufferers is that either they totally tune you out and don't talk to you since they are not interested socially in others or they keep on going about themselves and what they are doing now and what they are currently interested in (to complete oblivion of the annoyance of others).
So when the point comes when your parents no longer show so much interest in him or he finds something else more interesting he will quickly totally zone out your parents. How they take it is another matter which i can't comment on since i don't know them very well.
Hi Choaniki and thanks for the analysis. Very insightful indeed my friend.
DeleteI'm sure you can list a thousand new fads out there designed to keep teenagers like my nephew occupied for hours - the problem with my parents is their unwillingness to engage with any of these new fads and they chose to focus on things they are familiar with, that they understood. Until 2015, it was the PSLE syllabus which is fair enough, I'm glad my nephew had some help with his PSLE. But otherwise, now he's in sec 2, they are becoming less and less able to play a part in his academic progress (well my father can still handle his Chinese homework but my mum is totally lost when it comes to anything in the sec 2 syllabus). I could've seen this coming, you can see why they end up fussing over dumb shit like chilli sauce because that's one of the few things they understand.
The problem is that they do want to fuss over my nephew but they don't know how to and the total absence of any kind of social skills on their part means they end up doing all kinds of stupid shit which are either embarrassing or awkward. Like you said Choaniki - my nephew will probably just ignore them rather than confront them, I know my parents will be heartbroken when that day comes but I don't want to be have to be the one to say, "don't blame my nephew, blame yourselves for this mess."
As long as your nephew lives with your parents, he will have them trying to control him. However, his growing distance from them is inevitable even if he were not autistic. With your parents being so clueless about this confusing information overloaded world,they will have less and less to talk to your nephew about. However, if he had been raised well, he will continue to love them. He may not show it during his teenage years, but when this phase passes, his love should still be there. It is important that he is respectful, tolerant, compassionate, and empathetic at this point. His parents can teach him these qualities. These qualities will be the foundation of the man he will become.
DeleteMy nephew doesn't live with my parents - he lives with my sister and bro-in-law. My parents however, pick him up from school 2 or 3 days a week and then spend the afternoon and evening with him. Sometimes they also spend the weekend with him, but he doesn't spend the night at my parents' anymore - not that I know of. When he was very young, my parents sometimes kept him over for the night, but that was literally when he was an infant.
DeleteI remember my own grandmother years ago - she didn't even speak Mandarin, she was an illiterate Hokkien woman and it limited the quality of our interactions, but we had some kind of connection. It was very limited, my Hokkien isn't great and the fact is I never used it in education so our communication was so limited. Now with my parents speaking Mandarin & English, they have no language barrier with my nephew yet at times, I feel they have less of an emotional connection with him than I did with my own grandmother. My grandmother just took everything at face value and the love there was real - but with my nephew, I cannot help but feel that there's an element of control involved: like they are in some kind of competition to see who can control my nephew more. I don't like that - he's not a pawn in a game. My own grandmother never played such mind games.
It is up to your sister to limit the amount of time your nephew spend with your parents. Is he high functioning autistic? Can he go home by himself? Can he stay home by himself? Is his autism just affecting his socio-emotional well-being or is he a danger to himself if left alone? 14 is old enough to be home alone under normal circumstances. He is my son's age.
DeleteYes and no. Yes he can go home and stay at home by himself, but my mother then claims no it is not safe. Who's going to make sure he doesn't (insert ludicrous scenario) ? My parents then accuse my sister of being a bad mother and emotionally blackmail their way into her living room, where they get to impose themselves on my nephew, fussing over crazy shit like chilli sauce.
DeleteMaybe let him go home by himself and stay alone once or twice a week first. See how he fares. If he doesn't set the house on fire or lets in strangers, he is ok. Seriously, if he is high functioning, they need to let him be more self-reliant. It's for his good. His parents cannot pussy - foot around your parents at his expense.
DeleteDi, my nephew is autistic, not crazy so he's not going to do things like set the house on fire or disappear with strangers. The worst case scenario is that he is going to spend the entire afternoon playing computer games or looking at porn (or funny Youtube videos) instead of studying, doing his homework. Does he need some kind of monitoring? I think so, I'm not worried about the homework part - I'm sure he'll get into enough trouble at school if he doesn't complete his homework.
DeleteRecently there have been episodes of him talking to random strangers on the internet - you see, he's such a big fan of some computer games that he logs onto these forums, these websites where fans of the game get to interact with each other and there's a Singaporean section for it where he has discovered. You may think that he's finding an opportunity to make friends with fellow computer geeks, but he has been speaking to some adults there - now alarm bells have rung, he shouldn't be interacting with random adults on the internet for any reason. By right, kids under the age of 18 should only be interacting with a limited number of adults they come into contact with through school and other organisations chosen by their parents (for example, if the parents send their kids to music or sports lessons etc). But he has been talking to random adults and he wants to go to these events where the fans of the games meet up, buy/exchange stuff and we're like, no that's for adults. not for 13/14 year olds.
Someone needs to monitor his internet activities and my parents who don't even know how to use a smartphone are of no help whatsoever. All this contact with random adults happened right under their noses and they had no idea what was going on. In short, the one place where we need help the most, my parents are totally unable to help. But to be fair, this is the kind of internet-monitoring that all parents of teenagers have to do (the fact that my nephew is autistic in this case, is totally irrelevant).
By that token, my parents have the desire to help but do they have the ability to provide the kind of help we need the most at this stage? No. Huge difference. Except of course, they are blind to their own faults and shortcomings. There are two versions of events: the truth (as I see it) and my parents' warped version of reality where they are blind to their own faults and shortcomings. So my mother can emotionally blackmail my sister with all kinds of crazy crap, just because my sister gives in to my mother doesn't mean that my mother is right - it means my sister has just defaulted to the Asian mode where she doesn't dare disagree with her parents even if she knows in her heart that they are totally wrong. Don't forget, my mother often assumes the very worst case scenario when it comes to my nephew and has a habit of treating him like a complete idiot - just so she can justify her interventions. But here's the thing: my nephew is NOT an idiot, no no no, he's at worst a very geeky, awkward teenager who lacks some social skills. That's not ideal but not the end of the world: he's certainly not the total retard my parents make him out to be.
DeleteThat's what I'm trying to get at. He's going to not do crazy stuff. Good! So he can be alone. Your parents are doing squat to monitor his internet safety, so they serve little use. Can your sister not give him the wifi password? I'm just grasping at straws here. There has to be alternatives to Ah Ma and Ah Gong smothering his development.
DeleteWell no, he won't do crazy stuff - as for teenagers talking to random strangers on the internet, that's the kinda thing that all parents of teenagers have to contend with. You have a teenage son, what say you to that issue? Turn off the Wifi? Erm, surely there's gotta be a better solution?
DeleteOh and he calls my parents grandma and grandpa - ah gong and ah ma is too traditional for him.
I am not worried about my son's internet safety because he would tell me about if someone wants to friend him. He has been approached before, and he told me right away to go look at the message. So, no I don't turn off the wifi.
DeleteThe ideal solution is your parents monitor him, but they are clueless. I guess his parents just have to not give up and keep the communication going with your nephew. Have faith that he will outgrow this difficult teenage phase and be more mature eventually. Your sister and bil seem like good loving parents, so that love will persevere, and their words of wisdom will resonate when he is older. As for his relationship with his grandparents, perhaps he will one day look upon them as well - meaning albeit clueless folks who loved him and also drove him crazy. That's ok. In his heart, he'll know that they loved him in their own way. Their relationship need not be ideal. You are there for him too. He is very lucky to have you. Let him know he can get in touch with you any time. Even if it is just to chat about nothing and everything.
Exactly. Boom, you hit the nail on the head once again. The only effective kind of monitoring is to build trust with your son so he will turn to you and trust you, invite you to be a part of his online activities so as you can know what is going on and if something goes awry, he will ask you for help. That's the only way.
DeleteMy sister is trying to go down that route by being her son's friend and I see his father doing the same - they have different techniques, being v different people but I think they reach him in their own ways. My parents on the other hand, make little effort to earn his trust - their stance is: I've been so good to you, I've showered you with love and affection since you were born, I've done so much for you so of course you MUST trust me and if you don't, that's your fault not mine.
Sigh. I went through the same thing with them. Here's what my sister told me they said. You know I suffered bullying as a teenager and I chose to keep it from my parents, I chose to solve my problems at school without their help or even their knowledge. Why? Because I didn't trust them - I didn't think they were smart enough to understand my problems, I didn't think they would have the empathy to understand what I was going through, I didn't think they would have the understanding to offer any kind of useful solutions: in short, I didn't see how involving them would help the situation at all. In fact, I trusted them so little that I thought telling them might make things a lot worse - so I made the decision not to tell them.
My sister told them this recently, I'm an adult now. My dad got so defensive. He shouted that I was the one in the wrong, that all children should tell their parents everything, all the time because if you are dishonest enough to hide anything from your parents, you deserve to go to hell etc. He ignored the part that even as a teenager, I had such a low opinion of them that I didn't trust my own parents at all. If you think I had a low opinion of them then, I don't think my opinion of my parents can get much lower. But seeing how they make even more mistakes with my nephew leaves me even more disappointed - if that's even possible.
You can clearly see how my parents have failed to establish any kind of basic trust with me - I don't think they're going to do any better with my nephew. They are totally clueless. They just don't understand that you can't make such ridiculous assumptions with your children and expect unconditional trust and respect when you behave like such total idiots as parents. Duh.
Hi LIFT, allow me to share a strange observation from my own life experiences that somewhat mirror your parents' obsession with controlling your nephew's behaviour.
ReplyDeleteMy mum has never had a good relationship with me since primary school. After turning 7, she started distancing from me gradually by losing interest in things I enjoyed, criticising me needlessly and showing little concern for me except for my grades. So anyway, I started developing self awareness in my early teens. Hell, my mother was rather upset I refused to be her extension of herself. Every outfit I picked out was criticised for being ugly. Every grade I received in school was disatisfying. It got to a point I learnt to put her on what they called, an "information diet". Instead of trying to engage her in my life, I shut her out of mine. Such was the disconnection that I can assure you that I only see her face for 5 minutes nowadays - just in time for her questionning whenever I reached home DAILY.
This failure, in her inability to turn me into a carbon copy of herself, cumulated in a deep resentment towards me than parental love. LIFT, I haven't had the chance to read your blog thoroughly as I only discovered it recently, so I don't know your stance. But do you think your parents love you in spite of their abuse and ignorance? My mum clearly lost her love for me at one point long ago. I can believe that narcissistic parents who abuse their children exist, and my mother is such. 天下父母心 is a myth to me. Even my FMIL, whom I only have known for a while, clearly loves me like her own children and I'm grateful.
Hi Naomi. Good grief, you have described exactly what I went through. I knew I had to leave home eventually and put as much distance as possible and for the last 20 years, there has been between 4 to 8 time zones between my parents and I. We're practically strangers now. I always say that my regular readers know faaaar more about me than my parents - it is frustrating that my parents take so little interest in me and like you, it started when I was really quite young.
DeleteYou know, I don't even think my parents thought about what it meant to be a parent in the first place: they were just under so much pressure to have a son because our fucked up Chinese culture made them feel incomplete until they had a son. So I was the third child, the boy - and then it was a sense of, okay now what? They couldn't take less interest in my life and the difference I suppose, is that I have 2 older sisters who give in to my parents' every demand whilst I'm like, well if you don't wanna get to know me, have it your way, I've got plenty of friends who care more about me than you ever did. My parents still go on and on about how perfect they are as parents - I think they were not only pathetically awful parents, oh I'm going to go further than that! I think they're both severely autistic, that's the only way I can account for their total absence of any kind of social skills. Anyway, that's why i am writing this in London, 8 time zones away from my parents.
You know, a reason why people want to have kids is to leave a carbon copy of their DNA behind in the world, after they die. I wanted to make sure I rub it in their faces that I'm nothing like them - I love pretending that I don't speak Mandarin just to frustrate my father who refuses to speak English.
Humans are innately in need of love and they desire to be needed. So what could my lonely mother turn to? Surprise, surprise - she adopted a couple of dogs few years ago. She only had eyes (and heart) for the male puppy. Such that she coddled him and refused to discipline him (a beast) that he'd attack other dogs and cats, and she still refused to be a responsible dog mummy. However, she'd fuss over the smallest of things, even if they're of animal nature. For instance, she'd scold him every time he licked his paws or scratched himself. She has allowed herself to humanise the dog in her head. I believe she deems the dog to be completely inapt at behaving "properly" by human standards, thus her strange controlling behaviour. With regards to your parents, it must be the same train of thought - your nephew is still this inapt baby that needs their constant guidance and controlling love. This is why he can't be trusted to make his own decisions, just like how my dog can't be trusted to indulge in his animalistic behaviour. In addition, her failed relationship with me, just like your parents and you, contributed to her clinging even more tightly to this one last relationship left in her life that carries meaning for her, for my dog needs her. Does your nephew need your parents 24/7 in order to survive? I don't know, for I'm not able to observe. But the impression is there and definitely there to stay. This is why many parents are unable to let go of their adult children. I'm very, very thankful my mother is only obsessed with a dog. Who knows how dysfunctional would a human child turn out if s/he was taken care of by her the way she does with the dog!
ReplyDeleteYou know on so many occasions, I have wanted to suggest that my parents get some dogs as they would be able to handle that relationship, unlike what is happening with their grandson right now!
DeleteStrange allusion aside, my conclusion is that your parents will likely never let go of your nephew, since it is almost like a second chance at parenthood which they failed in your case. Of course, they must cherish this "second chance" all the more by controlling even more tightly, monitoring even more closely, the behaviour of their ward. And thus, all this weird nitpicky behaviour. It gets on your nerves no doubt, but I hope you can continue to keep a good watch if you can on your nephew. Let's hope he'd not develop a dependency complex like pets do - viewing their caretakers as superior and 100% correct, brainwashed by the controlling behaviour into being unable to think for themselves. At least in my case, it's just a dog.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't understand why the Chinese cultural definition of love from parent to child seems to be summarised by one word - CONTROL. Maybe you might want to cover the topic of helicopter parenting and controlling abusive tendencies in Asian parents, packaged and marketed as "Love" by generations of idiots in your next blog post?
I have no desire to tell my parents just how fucked up they are - no, I just want to keep the peace by staying the hell out of their way. However, I feel awful looking at the way they are messing my nephew around. I care for my nephew and feel that he deserves so much better.
DeleteI believe that there is a deeper psychological aspect to why such parents are trying to assume such strict controls over children. It has more to do with what the parents were not able to achieve in their pasts as compared to their peers and regretting their failures. The regret held is deeply rooted into their minds that it affects how they raise their children. That is why they assumed control over their children lives in hope that by being able to control the environment of their children they are able to control the outcome and achievements of their children, thus, fulfilling their own definitions of success via their children.
DeleteIt is not that they do not love their children, just that their priorities are geared towards their limited perceptions of success. And they are willing to go to all lengths to make their children achieve their perceptions of success.
But... what if they have a warped idea of what success means? You see for my parents, as teachers, they just drove us soooo hard to get straight As at school whilst paying little heed to what will happen once we finish our education. That's a major reason why they take little notice of what their 3 children do for a living - as teachers, they are so ignorant of what goes on beyond the school gates. They either believed that society will reward students who studied hard to get the great results... or they just plain never gave the matter any thought.
DeleteWell, that is because that is all that they can control, the rest that is beyond their control, they simply refuse to acknowledge their existence.
DeleteWei Ping, i proposed in my post below that parents behave this way to assert their status. The explanation u r giving is even simpler & I generally like things simpler!
DeleteCan i say that parents are simply negligent because they feel helpless? So theres really no malice.
If so, how do we, if possible help our parents feel more competent?
I have patiently helped my mum make friends, improve her reading literacy & to use the computer with dubious results!
Well, you can bring a horse to the river, but you cannot force the horse to drink.
DeleteMy personal experience is a little different. It has something to do with understanding your parents' characters. It is more about finding a common interest and moving from there. For me and my mum, it was cooking. My personal history with cooking started during my Primary School days, when I had to prepare the dinner for my family as both of my parents were working. So naturally, I took up the duty. So over the years, I sort of, shared an interest in cooking with my mum. During our shared cooking sessions, I usually experimented with food and my mum was always there to help salvage it if it went wrong. So, as the years went by, we got to understand how each of us think through working out in the kitchen.
With better understanding, you do not need much effort to introduce her to new things that you would expect her to take an interest in.
The relationship between my brother and my mother, on the other hand, is not ending up well. My mother is unable to understand my brother and vice versa. That results in a strained relationship between them. So there are times in which my mother would rely on me to try and convey intentions to my brother and vice versa.
The point is if you want to influence your parents, you probably need to have a deep understanding about your parents and try to guide them indirectly. For example, when Facebook started getting popular, all I needed to do was to introduce specific features and uses that I expected her to like and she got proactive in using it. The same goes for all the various app that is installed in her phone.
Your nephew admires & asks you lots of questions, you have a chance to teach the important skill "how to SIAM (dodge) irritating interference unwanted attention & well meaning advice from GEYKIANG (act smart) folks who know NUTS".
ReplyDeleteYour sister is a Master at this game, you just need to supplement her coaching. In London when she wanted to go shopping, your mother tried to stop her, she said some pacifying words & went shopping anyway, then came back with presents for them?
When your nephew wanted to put Thai chili sauce on his food, they tried to stop him, but he did it anyway. Trust your sister to guide her son to respect his grandparents, but still do whats right for himself.
Dont worry your parents wont kick a stink, they bo bian (no choice) have to sit back & watch quietly as people do things against their wishes all around them. At least they have each other, to complain in private if they really bueh tahan (cant stand).
After they drove you away with their ridiculous antics, they would NEVER DARE make the same mistake with the grandson. You taught them a lesson, & you taught it WELL.
No leh, the fact that they still tried to pull that crazy shit over something stupid like the Thai chili sauce tells me they've learnt absolutely NOTHING. They are incapable of learning anything at their age. I can teach my nephew all I want, but you can't put the onus on the poor boy to deal with his unreasonable grandparents. If they had learnt their lesson about not fucking up their relationship with their children and grandchildren, then I wouldn't have written this article in the first place. I wrote it because they are making the exact same mistakes with my nephew as they did with me - it shows they've learnt absolutely nothing.
DeleteYou've overestimated my parents - you have no idea just how stupid they are.
Oh and I'm still fluent in Hokkien and Malay - I just pretend I can't speak Mandarin anymore with my dad just to irritate him. You don't need to translate anything for me.
I don't doubt that my nephew will always get his way in the end, I just hate to see my parents fuck up this relationship as well, in much the same way they fucked up their own relationship with their son. They are incapable of learning anything, they are so stupid they are making the exact same mistakes as they made 30 years ago with me. Did I mention they're stupid? Yeah, they're hideously stupid.
DeleteI mentioned this in my article: when I fuck up and make a mistake, I learn from my mistakes so as I may never make the same mistake again. My parents fuck up and never learn a thing from their mistakes because they are too arrogant to take responsibility for their mistakes in life. They are so scared of losing face that they never ever get to the point where they take responsibility for their mistakes and learn from them. Seriously, some people are really that stupid. Please don't overestimate my parents' intelligence, they are really thaaaat stupid.
wait a minute what about Japanese parent? Do they share the same thinking as a Chinese parent?
ReplyDeleteIt's all manipulation. Cheaply disguised as cover stories "tough love", "it's for your own good" etc etc.
ReplyDeleteI bet the kids want to throw their parents into old age homes when they grow up. Oh wait "you should be filial to parents", "how could you treat your parents this way" etc etc.
I can't figure out why would anyone buy into those bogus cover stories? What were they thinking, or were they even thinking in the first place?
Did your dad really say that? You should start disclosing all the details of your juicy sex life to him. Since "all children should tell their parents everything".
ReplyDeleteMy parents make a lot of ridiculous assumptions including that which children have a duty to report everything to their parents and if we don't, then we're being dishonest and hiding the truth from our parents. I give up man, I don't see the point in pursuing this relationship at all. I skyped my sister earlier, my mum actually sat down and listened in (she didn't say much) but I saw my dad drift in and out in the background, then I can hear the sound of the TV. Great, I get it - he's more interested in watching crap on TV than talking to his own son. Even if I wanna tell him details of my life, he isn't even listening. Why bother having children if you can't be asked to take any interest in them?
DeleteHallmarks of ENTITLEMENT
ReplyDelete1) Not responding when spoken to
2) Demand that everyone else disclose
everything to them - with no reciprocation
3) No need to make an effort, title grants privilege
Leadership based not on merit but on hierachy
(but be a hypocrite about it and complain when abused by even higher authority figure)
4) Give advice & correct younger people not to empower them but to assert their authority, almost like a feral dog marking territory
Since Showing interest in people is a sign of respect, of acknowleding your status (however high or low)
Some entitled folks refuse to listen to others
Describes some people i know, including me mum
So Do u think ur parents refuse to take an interest purely out of insecurity over their position? They don't wanna risk feeling inferior to their kids who have better pay & better skills?
Just my 2 cents
Sigh. You've hit the nail on the head again. But it doesn't bring me any comfort to read it, it's all sad news. Bad news, sad news. It's a sorry state of affairs.
DeleteHiya
ReplyDeleteI don't have a solution for you. But I remember that you wrote an article before about having the appropriate amount of EQ when trying to change someone's mind or to persuade them to do something. In this case, it's not easy to apply the EQ as we normally know how to. We have to apply a "older SG folks EQ" because they all seem to have certain characteristics in common: stubborn, always think they are right, fear of modern society, want to be in control etc.
It's the same with my mum; she is definitely not as "blind" as your parents but I can't deal with her the same way I deal with my friends. We used to have so many clashes when I was younger. She even chased me around the house with a kitchen knife once! But I have learnt to change my behavior towards her to get the best from her. For one, I no longer criticise her directly because she will throw a screaming fit in response. She gets in a very good mood when I defer to her expertise - it could be something as small as "how do I cook this Chinese soup? Can you give me the recipe?" Once she's in a good mood, it's easier to ask for something in return.
Anyway, I think your nephew will naturally drift from them in his teenage years, unless he develops an ability to let what they say to him wash over. My cousin is very good at letting stuff said go "one ear in, one ear out." It has helped her deal with our cranky grandfather (he once called her a bitch, so you can imagine how tolerant she is).
Thanks for your advice PP. I don't even think my relationship with my parents are at a stage where I can even apply what you have suggested. My sister told me that part of the reason why my mother "doesn't dare" to ask me what I do for a living is because she is afraid that I will use big words (I kid you not, that's what my sister said) to describe complex stuff and my mother will feel stupid when she doesn't understand; instead of saying, "I don't understand" - my mother will then sit there silently feeling terrified that she will lose face as she feels like she is drowning in a difficult exam. This desire to avoid 'losing face' for her is stronger than any curiousity she may have about what I do for a living. And that's why we don't talk. And oh dear, my mum can't cook - sorry, the parent with any cooking skills is my dad. But don't get me started on him, it's impossible to speak to him as well because he just doesn't listen to a word that anyone says to him. You can blame it on his hearing in his advanced years but I suspect it's because he just doesn't give a shit about anyone's opinion.
DeleteLet me give you a simple example: when they were visiting me in London, there are two stations near where I live, Camden Road and Camden Town. Camden Road is on my doorstep, Camden Town is like a 6-7 mins walk away (a bit longer for them old folks). They always prefer to take the train from Camden Road as it is so much nearer. One day, my parents were not feeling well and my sister asked if we could go to the pharmacy and I said sure, there's one by Camden Town station (the station further away), so we walked there, went to the pharmacy and then took the train from Camden Town. But my father gave us grief for the rest of the day "why didn't we get the train from the station closer to home?!" And we had to tell him like TEN times at least, "we went to the further station because we had to go to the pharmacy to get medicine for you." There was a perfectly plausible, logical explanation but did my father listen? Nope. He's not deaf, but unreasonable.
Now you try to deal with someone like that. That's just one small example about walking to the pharmacy to get medicine for him. Imagine how he deals with bigger issues. He's so unreasonable that even when he's wrong, he'll just shout at you when you try to correct him. That's why I think my sister has the patience of a saint as she can let go of shit like that (like your cousin) whilst I had to move 8 time zones away from my parents.
Having read your blog for awhile, I realise that in your world, when you can't get along with someone or you disagree with them, you tend to naturally fall back on the "I'm doing so well so fuck off because i'm correct you uneducated / unsuccessful swine" argument, and this is fine when you deal with other relationships at work, your friends etc., unfortunately we all know you can't change your parents and if you still have the desire to maintain a good relationship with your parents, which seems to be the case otherwise you wouldn't have hosted them in London, try to understand their behaviour (which you seem to have attempted to do in previous posts) and have a bit more persistence, stop falling back on your defense mechanism (i.e. your career success etc.) whenever you get frustrated because that only creates more distance for you in your mind.
ReplyDeleteI also sense that you are very bitter and still seek approval of your parents very much, which is positive because it means you still care about them. Look beyond the superficial responses your parents reply with (like telling their grandson not to eat the chilli) - that's the way they have been taught in their era to show love and concern, however misguided. Try, keep trying, to explain things to them and eventually some of it goes in even if they don't show it (again, because of pride - remember people from their era don't take no shit from the younger, know-it-all generation).
Lastly, the arrogance probably serves you well in your career, the blog, etc. and thats none of anyone's business to change, but for your relationship with your parents, its only a vicious cycle that increases the distance between them and yourself.
For example, from their perspective, their defence mechanism would be similar, imagine yourself in their shoes going "Wah, this kid study abit thinks he knows it all". Now imagine yourself talking to a 23 year old fresh out of uni telling you what to do and his great ideas - honestly ask yourself, would your initial reaction be the same, and would you disengage from the conversation and rely on your defense mechanism?
Take care,
Yoda
Hi Yoda, thanks so much for the long and thoughtful comment.
DeleteYeah, I think you made loads of really good points. Where do I begin, let's go with bullet points so I try to cover everything.
1. I think that sometimes, I do portray myself as a misanthrope - the kind of scrooge who doesn't like humankind in general and to some extent, yeah that's true: I think sometimes on social media, people try so freaking hard to be well liked and they try to always portray every aspect of their lives to be 'nice'. Like ooh I went to a nice restaurant today and they have such cute deserts, let me take a picture and post that on instagram. And no, I'm going to talk about un-cute things that make me upset and will make you upset, but somebody has to address those demons. I'm not cute anyway, I'm an ugly 40 year old balding man, so sometimes, in embracing this ugliness with such brutal honesty, like you said (and another reader posted a similar comment), that honesty is what draws people to my blog.
2. By that token, I don't suffer fools gladly. There's this piece on Facebook recently about how this American guy, a Trump supporter was saying, "I'm so glad they're getting rid of Obamacare, but it's okay, I've got the ACA (affordable care act) for my health insurance." And everyone was going you dense motherfucker, it's the same thing. You've just lost your health insurance and you're celebrating? But what can you do about people like that? Tolerate them or mock them? And it's easy to mock some American guy halfway around the world you've never met, but what if those people are your very parents then? Oh dear.
3. With my parents, yeah I think I feel a bit cheated because as a typical Singaporean kid back in the day, I was under so much pressure to study hard and achieve loads, but once I am an adult and started doing incredible things with my career, I received no praise from my parents because they have no freaking clue what any of my achievements are - my sister said to me, "mum doesn't dare to ask you what you do for a living as she is afraid she won't understand and she will lose face, her self-esteem is so low she would rather avoid the topic." And I'm like, right, so you cannot be asked to take an interest in my career because you're afraid you'll lose face over that? Go figure. Like you said, maybe the generation gap is just too freaking large to ever be bridged and the onus has to fall on me to be understanding because my parents are incapable of reaching over the divide. I'm sorry but they have made it so freaking hard for me to reach over the divide.
4. On the issue of the chilli sauce, I thought I had empowered my nephew by letting him make up his own mind and exercise his judgement over something as simple as whether or not to eat dip his food in that sauce. That's the kinda simple shit I expect a 5 year old to do for crying out allowed and my nephew is already 14. I am desperately trying to undo the damage he has suffered as a result of so many people treating him like a complete idiot all his life. Are my parents happy with the outcome? Hell no. They scolded me as if I had just poisoned their beloved grandson and I wasn't gonna take no shit from them, I told them of for their ridiculous behaviour and called him ignorant, misinformed, uneducated etc - it's like bring it on bitch, you wanna scold me over this, I will make you feel rotten about that and regret the fact that you dared to challenge my decision.
Yeah you can see why my mother doesn't dare to ask me about my career. And why I don't talk to my parents.
5. One point you're completely wrong about though, is that I would assume some kind of moral superiority over a 23 year old. Hell no. I would never do that. I don't think being older makes you wiser. I've met people older than me who have done far less with their lives and people who are younger than me who have done far more. It was a real eye opener last summer when I went to NASA (Cape Canaveral) and met the Ukrainian team who won one of the top design awards - one of the members of that team was 12 for crying out aloud, yet they went out of their way to say, "she's not someone's little sister tagging along for a trip to America, she contributed as much as all the other engineers in the project and it was mostly her concept to begin with." I also got to know another British designer really well on that trip who told me that she was in line for some young British entrepreneur (or was it designer) of the year award - anyway, she said the clock was ticking as you had to be under 24 to enter and she was nearly 24 and she felt old. And then she told me some of the people she was up against (all under 24 of course) and they had achieved so much by that tender age? Holy mother - these people are so crazy high achievers, it will blow your socks off.
DeleteBut allow me to show you this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Dl787wkrY that is American gymnast Shannon Miller at the age of 11 performing already a world class routine in 1988. She went on to win 7 Olympic medals in 1992 and 1996, two of those gold. She's one year younger than me and I always thought, damn she's younger than me and so much better than me already? I'm a gymnast - I grew up in the gymnastics environment where not just teenagers, but kids are expected to learn these difficult routines and perform like adults by the age of like 10 or 11 (like Miller, in the video) - whilst her classmates were playing with Barbie dolls, Miller was busy training to be an Olympic champion.
So actually Yoda, I'm quite used to expecting young people (never mind 23 year olds, even pre-teens) to do a LOT with their lives and I'd never dismiss someone because of their age. Ref: Shannon Miller age 11 or that Ukrainian 12 year old who won that NASA award. People like that exist of course and you know that. And then you also have the 50 year old taxi driver in Singapore who has done fuck all with his life and the only skill he can offer society is his driving skills? Oh dear.
There is little correlation between age and achievement/wisdom. I know that. Trust me, as a gymnast, that has shaped that part of my thinking from an early age.
Oh and typo: I scolded my parents, over the chilli sauce thing, but I wrote 'him' rather than 'them' - I think I wrote that because I scolded my father first. That's why I wrote 'him'. May I state that I'd never scold my nephew - I see him as the victim of all this family crap.
Just to follow up on the point of women gymnasts, women typically peak in gymnastics around their mid to late teens. Nadia Comaneci won 3 Olympics gold medals, 1 silver, 1 bronze at the 1976 Olympics at the age of 14. Gabby Douglas of USA won 2 gold medals at the 2012 London Olympics at the age of 16. You get the idea, in my sport, we don't wait around for teenagers to grow up before putting them up for international competitions and producing Olympic gold medalists. Kids start competing like adults from the age of like 9 or 10 and are expected to peak in a few years, so they usually mature way more quickly than their peers and achieve so much more, so much earlier.
DeleteTwo of my compatriots when I was a kid growing up were Eileen Chai and the late Jacky Choy, both of whom were the darlings of Singapore gymnastics and they were competing internationally and winning medals from the age of something ridiculous like 7 or 8 years old. And they're both either my age or younger than me, but I was so used to thinking that young people can achieve so much in their lives whilst I looked at my own parents and thought, you're just primary school teachers - you're like really old, but what do you know about the big bad world beyond he school gates?
Sorry if I am going on about this - but you're soooo totally wrong about this 'defense mechanism' thing. Maybe it's a reflex that old people have but I may be 40 but I refuse to give in to that kind of thinking. Please see this article for more on that kind of elderly despair: https://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/integrity-vs-despair-how-do-you-want-to.html Just euthanize me if I ever give in to despair!
Hey LimpehFt,
DeleteJust wanted you to know as well, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a misanthrope or a grumpy old sod - whether you're deliberately doing this for the blog or you're like that in person, we all know someone like that and we all appreciate someone who speaks their mind and says things like it is. I also accept the points you made in point no.5.
About your comment that your parents have low self-esteem, try to find out more - do they really feel that way or does your mum just feel that now that you've done well for yourself, you're "looking down" on them in a way? It is as hard for me as it probably is for you to believe that that is the case.
I was hesitant to bring politics into this, but since you’ve done it first, with the comment about Trump supporters, as with Brexit, without going into too much argument and detail about those things (I would’ve supported Hillary and Remain FYI), I believe there is a lot of truth in saying that those who supported Trump and Brexit felt they weren’t being heard and were being shut down before they could even make their point, simply because they weren’t eloquent enough to make their point and were basically fed up with being told how stupid they were (whether true or not) and felt completely disengaged and forgotten and reacted by basically throwing a tantrum and voting for the most destructive option – which seems to be the analogy that your parents don’t feel you’re listening to them or considering their perspective and shutting them down too early. Even if you feel you’re right, and even if you clearly know you’re right, sometimes it helps to pretend to listen to them and at least bluff them that you’ve taken their thoughts into consideration.
In the end, I wish you and your parents well and don't give up on trying to mend the relationship however frustrating it is. Like i said, your actions show you do want to have that positive relationship with them at some stage and if that's the case, please persevere and know that these things take time. I am pretty much in the position of your sister so I can empathise and I know these things are easier said than done so I wish you all the best.
Yoda
Hi Yoda, thanks for the swift reply.
DeleteThanks for acknowledging point 5 (ie. that of high achieving young people) - that is very important for me as I steadfastly refuse to believe in the correlation between age and wisdom. I'm sorry if you have really hit a sore spot - but I'm sure you've heard me say a zillion times how I think my parents as retired primary school teachers have age but not the wisdom that supposedly goes with it. But enough said about that.
As for my mum's low self-esteem, sigh. It's not something that I can fix. Even my sister observed that she has no mind of her own - as a very traditional Chinese woman, she believes that she must listen to her husband and makes no decisions; even little things, she would ask my father for his 'permission'. Not that he wants to control every aspect of her life, but that's just the kind of person she is. Like I said before, I think it is a cultural thing for very traditional Chinese people - they hide behind their culture instead of asking difficult questions. So if I ever challenge anything, they use their culture as their defense.
I don't even know how I can find out more - the only channel of communication is via my sister, I speak to her and she plays peace keeper as I can't have a normal conversation with my parents. It goes downhill very, very quickly with my parents, we cannot talk without arguing. If they ever say anything that is wrong, I'm not even talking about 'let's agree to disagree' kind of situations where we have different opinions, it's basic shit like science: when my parents visited recently in December, we had plenty of wild winter weather and they came up with the most ridiculous BULLSHIT theories about winter weather and I'm like, hello? Your son is a scholar who did geography at one of the top UK universities and instead of asking me a simple question like, "what conditions are necessary for snow to occur?" No, you talk like uneducated peasants, spouted the most ludicrous bullshit like illiterate idiots and I feel the need to say, "that's complete bullshit, none of that is correct. You are talking like illiterate fools." Oh then I am the one being antagonistic and it goes downhill quickly. Yikes. Whatever reason there is behind their low self-esteem, well I can't fix it. Maybe my sister can but I can't. I do want a more positive relationship with them that is less toxic, less antagonistic, but it takes more than 1 hand to clap you know. Thanks for your empathy.
More specifically what are your uncles aunts
Deletegrandparents level of ability in various soft skills?
Most of us readers keep assessing family matters from a moral or culture or psychopathological (abusive or not) point of view but i believe its often just a matter of abilities thats really crucial.
I know you have mentioned 'intelligence and softskills' several times but its easy to forget that factor and we caught up, in frankly our own past history
Hey Alex, instead of continuing to flog a dead horse so to speak, let's change the frame for a minute and
ReplyDeleteask "what are your parents silbings like? what were your grandparents like?"
Maybe that can shed light on just how your parents really tick
Interesting question Chen. Thanks for asking and moving the conversation along.
DeleteI never knew my grandfathers, they died before I was born. I never had a conversation with my father's mother as she insisted on speaking to me only in Hakka and I didn't understand a word. I tried conversing to her in Malay (the only language we shared in common) but she refused to speak to me in Malay. As for my other grandmother whom I was close to, well, I think she mellowed a lot with age. She was the grand matriarch of the family - she had so many children and when my mother was a child, she was so fierce and scary, all the children feared her and she ruled the family with an iron fist. But by the time I was born, she mellowed so much and I remember how my mother treated her like an illiterate idiot because my mother is at least educated and held a job. My late grandmother is illiterate and helped my grandfather's business behind the scenes, but she never really worked the way my mother did. She spoke neither English nor Mandarin and spoke only Hokkien and Malay - that's why I speak both Hokkien and Malay. But my grandmother's health deteriorated after a bad fall when I was 8 and I stopped seeing her regularly - she used to take care of me when I was v young and then it would be just a few times a month on Sundays. I don't think she had much parenting skills to speak of, but I never really observed her up close with my mother - well, at least even if I did back in the 1980s and 1990s, I never thought of trying to observe them in a way to shed some light on the issue and trying to piece things together from faded memories is a big ask to say the least Chen. As for my uncles and aunties, I was never close to them but I think it varies. I don't even know the uncles and aunties on my dad's side at all as they're all in Malaysia and I saw them like once a year during Chinese New Year. But as for my mum's side, they were an interesting bunch, so many different characters but I think culturally, they were very similar to my mother when it comes to the department of soft skills.
i was wondering if u might actually find solutions
Deleteto connect with ur parents by looking at ur relatives ways of connecting.
Perhaps they don't communicate much but say cook together - a kind of non verbal communication. Its not ideal, but if we have a common purpose, some kind of joint activity, an ice breaker if u like, at least we more at ease with one another and pulls the 'sting' out of any potential conflict.
I have assessed my exteneded family on both sides to see options; there are not many, which is disappointing. I think once the problem of day to day survival was taken away, none of them had common cause. And frankly uncles and aunts rarely displayed filial piety. They openly detested my grandparents.
One of my grandpas was a monster who used his children in horrible ways. No child protection services back in the day.
Its not a comedic story
but at least understanding the scale of their conflicts, their limitations as people, it helped me feel at peace with my myself
I got the information i need to 'script my own comedy' and thats good enough. Im no bleeding heart saviour of lost souls.
im satisfied now as of 2017 that i have done enough. and what i attempted, that is to build strong rapport, intimacy with my family is unrealistic. what can i actively do however, is keep the peace, manage them.
And im successful at that (and im the last born, bloody hell) With that said im connectingly slowly with dad, theres an opening there. Theres a need, i can sell :)
My siblings on the other hand, im quite happy now to keep SWD safe working distance. Its shocking for me to see how the 2 of them are becoming like an uncle and an aunt respectively.
Like how one sibling is a recluse in a dirty flat, always going around talking loud bragging about himself - exactly like the uncle. They even wear the same miserable despair on their face.
I mentioned this sibling to people i thought wiser, seeking advice,
Their response is like some of your readers - urging me to try harder to help him. It just didn't get into their heads that my sibling doesn't want support - he wants an audience, a bitch, someone to blame, someone to scapegoat for his failings.
Being friendly with these sort of people only opens u up to attack. In contrast with more distance my sibling feels less comfortable insulting and in fact trys to be nicer to
'get me back in the game'
I realised that these people i consulted fell into 2 groups (some of them were trained counselors; once more proving that a diploma isn't sufficient for real world challenges)
A) In denial of their own severe family conflict
B) More common, Silver Spooners who have never experienced this sort of suffering. Their conflicts are lets call them eh.. healthy conflicts of interests and dreams - their families have. baseline level of social competence and general benovelent disposition to others. They understand disgreement with people, but fail to understand the dynamics of abuse, betrayal or negligence.
I learnt that i have to screen people more thoroughly, who to confide in and
ultimately to feel more at peace through understanding.
I suspect some readers are here for the same reason as me. Understanding and the peace that comes with it. Because actually connecting with a negligent or abusive person is unrealistic
Its like a loss making investment
@LIFT I think L Chen is going down a very wrong path here. He is assuming that personality is a product of nurture so should look at the siblings of your parents to judge how they were raise. This is very wrong since there is increasing evidence that personality is more a product of nature than nurture so your mom could be very reticent yet her brother or sisters might be very outspoken despite undergoing the same upbringing.
DeleteRead this very interesting story about 2 identical twins raised apart due to a mixup during birth. This shows evidence that despite a very different upbringing by very different parents the identical twin pair had very similar personalities. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/magazine/the-mixed-up-brothers-of-bogota.html
Guys, thank you very much for your perspective. The fact is, I don't know where to begin and I'm not fussed about favouring one theory over another. I don't think we'll ever arrive at a definite 'answer' or 'solution' because life presents us with complex problems with no simple or straightforward solutions.
DeleteLook out for my latest post - I did something amazing this week but am not telling my parents what I did, I prefer to share it on my blog because at the very least my regular readers will be able to feel happy for me when my parents won't.
Looking at the broader picture helped me understand better everyones different contribution to the conflicts
ReplyDeleteI now have a feel
what i can and cannot accomplish with my family
Im clearer on where, how and whether or not to try harder. Whats actually my fault, or whats not but i can take responsibiltiy anyway or... simply ignore!
Im more at peace with myself - Like Yea i have done enough kind of attitude. Im not being quitter, rather im acknowledging my own efforts & my limitations.
We are not Jesus, crucifying ourselves for others
But perhaps theres another option for u..
how are your parents friends?
perhaps this line of inquiry can yield solutions for u
And if not? U can 'tender ur resignation' and 'go add value elsewhere' - other people like ur husband, who are also deserving of love and care and are receptive to it!
You know, when I was very troubled in my army days, I used to turn to other adults for if I really needed someone to talk to. There was a family friend - her name was Mrs Foo - she was the mother of one of my good friends and I used to go running to her instead of speaking to my own mother because Mrs Foo had good listening skills. I could talk to her and she would actually LISTEN. Wow. What a difference that made. Talking to my mother is kinda impossible when she doesn't know how to listen? Can you see how important it is for the other party to actually listen to you when you wanna have a conversation? Otherwise it goes downhill pretty quickly. Like this woman wasn't even that close to me to begin with - she just knew that her son had a friend who was seriously fucked up and had problems and she just stepped in as a kind person and said, "look if you need someone to talk to ..." I truly appreciate her kindness.
Delete@Choanki, im not actually on any side of the nature nurture debate. For the sake of the discussion i prefer to assume we have the power to influence the behavior of others. Certainly the twin studies are impressive; i used to work with ADD kids, while some could 'rehab' fully, many were compromised for life no matter how much special training they received - thats nature right in my face, raw and merciless.
Delete@LIFT, sorry if i sounded presumptous at any point. i hoped to be as constructive as possible.
Besides hoping to throw up new ways that one can communicate with difficult people, i was also wondering if there was any one that could serve as third party facilitator - sort of pass along the msg u want to send to ur parents on ur behalf.