Mrs V was told to drop Joe off at the kindergarten and then leave the premises; she was given strict instructions not to return until it was time to pick Joe up. So Linda doesn't really have any special method to deal with Joe apart from what she calls 'tough love' - so when Joe cries, Linda just tells him, "your mummy is not here, stop crying." She then ignores Joe until he realizes that crying isn't going to get him what he wants - well, I can see the logic in her method, that would work of course, if Joe can understand it as well. But this bit bothers me somewhat: Mrs V got worried one day, so she lingered around the school gates and she could hear Joe scream and cry loudly. She thought, okay, we have to do this, tough love - he has to learn, right? But the crying and screaming went on for a long time: a very, very long time. Mrs V's heart was broken in hearing her son scream and cry like that for such a long time, but she decided to trust Linda and not go against the instructions to only return when it is time to pick up Joe.
I am appealing to the parents amongst my readers to offer Mrs V a second opinion: does tough love work? Would Joe eventually learn through this method? Or is such a method simply too cruel to a boy whose IQ is so low he doesn't understand what is going on enough? Or am I being condescending to a boy who may be autistic to assume that he is simply incapable of even learning to cope with a situation like this? I don't know - I turn this over to you my readers, especially if you are parents who have dealt with this kind of situation before. Leave a comment below, many thanks.
New parents often struggle with training their children to sleep well at night. Many babies and toddlers get used to sleeping with or near their parents and will cry for a long time if left alone. This has led to the development of a popular sleep training method called the Ferber method, or the cry-it-out method. Simply put, let the child cry it out and after two or three nights, he will understand that mommy isn't coming and just resign himself to the fact that crying is no use so he may as well go to sleep.
ReplyDeleteThis method has worked for my children; the first was two years old and the second was six months old when I did this. They both cried for what seemed like hours and it was heartbreaking but after two or three nights, both learned the routine and would not cry and simply go to sleep when the lights were shut off.
I am not an expert in the field to say definitively that IQ doesn't play a huge part in this, but in my opinion, if a six month old child can be conditioned to understand this, then Joe can also. Some people even start this training at 4 weeks old, and a child can barely understand anything at that age. Even dogs can be conditioned (Pavlo's dogs with the bell). After a few days, Joe will realize that his mother will not magically appear and he'll stop crying because he'll realize it is an exercise in futility. He may take a few extra days because I think his mother worsened the problem by being around in the earlier days to "rescue" him so she has already set some expectations for him - if he cries enough, she'll appear. However, I think he will eventually get the message.
Hi Boobah, thanks for your message.
DeleteFrom what I understood from Mrs V, Joe has been crying for her since he started kindergarten and his previous teachers have allowed Mrs V to come into the class if and when she wants because they have no idea how to stop him crying. Linda took charge this year and decided to break the cycle, it has been Jan till now, so like 4.5 months? But you're talking about your children crying or 2 or 3 nights only - this kid has cried for 4.5 months!
This is why I am thinking, if 'normal' children can 'get the message' after a few days and this kid can't get the message after 4.5 months, does that mean that he will never get the message? Does this mean that he is so severely autistic or disabled that he can't 'get the message' because his IQ is so low?
As much as I think he's lucky to have Linda as a teacher (who seems pretty confident to triumph in making this child 'get the message'), what you have written has left me with less confidence as you're telling me that normal kids get the message within a few days. Well, that means Joe is well and truly abnormal.
You see? This is why parenthood scares me. Mrs V is really the nicest, most sweet, kindest person (not to mention highly intelligent) and so's her husband - yet there's no logical explanation as to why her son turned out like this. It's like rolling the dice when you have a child, you have no idea if the child will be normal or not.
Hmm, this is interesting. 4.5 months is a long time, but I am still not convinced it is an IQ problem rather than one of stubbornness. How can it be that children that are only a few months old, even if they have normal IQ, be more capable of "getting the message" than a 6 year old? At a few months old, they barely comprehend anything while you say Joe has the mental capacity of a 2 or maybe 3 year old. He should be able to get the message at this mental age if a baby can.
DeleteThere might be something about him that is truly throwing him off as you say, but I don't think it is IQ. There is some kind of associative disconnect somewhere in his brain if he is not able to put two and two together and realize that his mother is not coming after 4.5 months of crying.
Yes, parenthood is scary. I don't think any parent will disagree with that. Even if your child seems normal, who knows what crazy thing could happen tomorrow or later?
Hi Boobah, so what is it then - this 'stubbornness' that is just not making Joe 'get the message'? If it is not a question of IQ, then what is it? Is it a question of breaking a pattern, teaching him that he can't get what he wants by crying? What is behind this associative disconnect, if it is not a simple matter of a very low IQ? What else is it - I'm asking cos I have no answers.
DeleteAs for the latter issue, I used to think that there would be some kind of reason that would lead to a child behind abnormal (health/medical reasons, a complication during the pregnancy, illness or a poor family environment) - but Mrs V and her husband are he nicest people you'll ever meet. That's why it's hard to get my head around why someone as nice, healthy and intelligent like her can have her son turn out like that.
Sorry, I don't have the answers either and can only speculate to what is behind this disconnect. It could be that he hasn't found a substitute to his mother that offers him comfort or incentive enough to change his behavior. When I was a child I was also very stubborn and out of pure determination to not be controlled or give in to authority figures, I would stick to my guns, however long it was. It could simply be a battle of wills between Joe and Ms Linda, especially since she seems uncompromising in her approach. People with special needs often fixate on things and right now he may be fixated on getting the comfort his mother offers.
DeleteTrying to find a reason to explain why some people are given their lot in life is just going to make things very confusing! As a realist, I am surprised that you feel that way (that because she is nice etc that she should not have a child turn out like Joe). Bad things happen to nice people all the time. And some of those bad things are inexplicable. I do feel sorry for Mrs V and wish I could help but how much can one do in this circumstance? :(
Perhaps I am also thinking about my family's experience and my nephew as well - it is hardly a rational reaction admittedly, but so many times people have such thoughts and then they censor themselves. I am just blurting out here what crossed my mind before I had the chance to censor myself.
DeleteHello, I have been a silent reader of your blog for years. I will like to give a comment now because I am intrigued by Mrs V. experiences.
ReplyDeleteI am no expert in child psychology. However, I am a psychologist by training (Master in Clinical Psychology), and I conduct a good amount of psycho-educational assessment for children and adolescents in my work. Also, I work in a pediatric clinic.
First and apart from the question of tough love, I wonder whether Joe is in the right kindergarten in the first place. It is quite clear that Joe is a child with special needs. Incidentally, having the mental age of a 3 year old when the child is chronologically 5 year old is a significant indicator for intellectual disability. If Joe "struggles to even perform most simple tasks like getting dressed", this is very atypical for a 6-year old.
My point is that Mrs V. descriptions of Joe's behaviors are not typical of "borderline cases". While we do not know Joe's intellectual functioning (in terms of actual IQ test scores), he is likely to fall behind (and continue to fall behind) his same-aged peers in class. That is, while Joe is developing (no matter how little it is), his peers are likely developing at a much faster pace. The gap for Joe grows even more as the months go by.
In my opinion, Joe needs to go to a school for children with special needs. Such schools have the appropriate curriculum to teach the appropriate skills. For example, in Joe's case, learning to read, write, and simple numeracy is not going to beneficial if he is not learning to dress himself.
Now, going back to your question on "tough love", the general principle (on why it works) is based on Behavioral Psychology. Specifically, it is about reinforcements, punishments, and shaping. Such principles are used on training animals (e.g., dogs), and it works on human beings with low cognitive or intellectual functioning. For example, attending to Joe when he cries (i.e., Mum runs in, hugs him, and brings him out), reinforces his crying behaviors, leading to an increased probability that Joe will start to cry if he feels uncomfortable in the classroom. So, yes, it may indeed be more beneficial for Joe if Mrs V. simply do not respond at all to his classroom screams and cries.
My above comments are very succinct and obviously I cannot recommend anything more specific unless I know more of Joe's history. If you have any questions/comments, I will try my best to answer.
Dave
Hi Dave, thanks so much for your thoughtful comment.
DeleteI don't doubt that Joe has some kind of special needs (autism is my guess) - I can only go by what Mrs V tells me. For example, once Linda was reading the class a story and Joe started crying. Linda is plain ignored him, without even raising her voice, reading that story and half the class couldn't hear a word of the story because Joe was screaming as loudly as he could (in a bid to get attention I suppose) - till the other children started telling him to shut up as they were sick and tired of his screaming.
As the previous comment indicated, such approaches usually work as the kid understands that he can't get what he wants by tantrums/crying - but at what point does it sink in? I accept that some children learn faster than others, but I do wonder why Joe still doesn't 'get the message' after 4.5 months in his kindergarten that his mummy isn't going to come running if he starts crying.
A lot of people feel sorry for kids like Joe. I actually feel very sorry for Mrs V (well, she is my friend after all).
I have worked with a number of parents that share similar circumstances as Mrs V. I get the impression that Joe may have (or at high risk for) 2 developmental conditions, specifically Autism and Intellectual Disability. This is a double whammy, considering how each condition by itself is already such a huge challenge.
DeleteIf Joe has the features of autism and intellectual impairments, it is indeed possible that 4.5 months is insufficient for him to "get the message". For children with such impairments, improvements are better calculated in terms of "months and years". For example, simple self-help skills (e.g., dressing oneself, seeking help when in need/pain) are something that can take at least 6 months to teach, reinforce, and maintain.
That aside, if Joe continues to behave like this in the kindergarten, it is clear that this school is not the right place for him. As hard as it is for parents to accept, the majority of (mainstream) kindergartens in Singapore are not equipped to handle children with such needs. Sooner or later, the parents of the other children in Joe's class will start to complain, because many parents will conclude that Joe is "disrupting" the class. These parents will find it unacceptable that their own child is being "marginalized" in terms of classroom learning.
You know, I don't even feel like I dare to bring up that last point with Mrs V. At some point, the more Joe screams/cries, the more of the teachers' energy/time he will consume and at what stage do the other parents intervene and say enough is enough? Or when will the teachers say, "that kid does not belong in a mainstream school?"
DeleteMrs V has a younger child, I wonder if the younger child is going to be similar?
I understand that many parents (and you) believe that "at some point (a child with needs have to) integrate into mainstream society", and by sending the child to a special school, "he learns little or nothing there about what it is like to get along with other normal kids".
DeleteFor your nephew, it is really fortunate that he was able to attend mainstream schools (even if he had struggled socially). Perhaps you have heard that autism falls within a spectrum or range? In other words, there are autistic individuals with relatively higher functioning, and there are those autistic individuals with relatively lower functioning. There is no "one-size-fit-all approach" to children with autism, so some autistic children do indeed flourish, albeit in a much slower manner as compared to typical children.
In Mrs V. case, it does seem that Joe presents as a child with low functioning. As I was saying, autism frequently co-occur with intellectual disability. I'm not sure if Joe has seen a pediatrician and/or a psychologist (in your previous post, you mentioned that the parents "have have sought all kinds of professional help"). If so, Joe should have completed a thorough psychological assessment, including a diagnostic test for autism and a test for intellectual functioning. This assessment will help to determine his autism severity, as well as whether he is performing at a much lower functioning as compared to other same-aged children who only have autism. Since Joe is turning 6 years old, he can undergo these tests, which can determine - with a high degree of probability - his current developmental conditions.
If Joe indeed falls into this "double whammy" category, his outcomes will likely be radically different (and worse off) from your nephew.
I will usually give parents this recommendation if they are very resistant to the child attending special needs school: Let the child try for a year in (mainstream) kindergarten. In the meantime, the child attends weekly occupational therapy and speech-language therapy. By the end of 1 year, if the child is still significantly delayed, then it is time to seriously consider the "hard questions" and what is the next best alternative for the child.
Hi Dave,
DeleteAs for my nephew, his studies are pretty okay. Well, they're average like I said before, he got through PSLE, failed nothing, mediocre grades that got him into a neighbourhood sec school. For all the strange obsession he had with numbers as a kid, everyone expected him to do well in maths (only I didn't but I didn't want to dampen their spirits) - guess what? I was right all along, any kind of strange behaviour brought on by autism doesn't turn you into a maths genius. He scraped through maths but was far from good at it. But for what it is worth, he's still doing okay lah, ie. not failing = good enough. The aspects of his development which worry me are his social skills - he still comes across as very awkward socially, doesn't know how to hold a conversation and has few friends. But he's not 'stupid' - just socially awkward I suppose.
Some individuals with autistic traits are able to function well in adulthood, work in a decent job, and earn their keep. Usually, it is all about finding the right occupation. Some occupations require more people-related skills (e.g., sales, front-desk, etc), while some occupations require much fewer people skills (e.g., info-tech, admin, engineers, and accountants!). In other words, if I am socially awkward, the worse job for me is Sales, because I will likely fail badly at that.
DeleteGoing back to Mrs V, I doubt that she will ever fully accept Joe's conditions. She is going through one of the worse nightmares in the parent category. Sometimes, when I see such cases, I question myself on whether my wife and I should have children in the future. We still do not have the definitive answer on what causes autism. Genetic markers are also fuzzy, and such there is no way to determine whether the child will end up on the Autism spectrum or not. It is almost like playing Russian roulette.
As a professional, I am more than willing to talk to Mrs V if she wants to hear a 2nd, 3rd (and so forth) opinion on Joe. I don't want to add to the list of "experts" that Mrs V has spoken to, but I do believe that the parents themselves need support.
Have you read this story I wrote about autism in adults? http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/autism-in-adults-struggle-continues.html
DeleteYes, I have read it. I applaud wholeheartedly at what MacGuy, Gina, and you achieved for Salt Guy's birthday. And MacGuy is definitely a person with an extremely big heart.
DeleteIndeed, your story does paint a picture of what autism can look like in adulthood. After all, autistic individuals have their own needs/goals/dreams, just like any other person. The challenges of autism in adulthood are huge and not everyone have a great friend (or big brother) such as MacGuy.
As a psychologist, I must admit that when we say "function well in adulthood", we are usually talking about practical things (e.g., able to dress oneself, hold a job, survive). We leave out (quite deliberately at times) on the more abstract concepts, such as love, intimacy, or purpose.
Autism is a terrifying condition, and it profoundly affects the person and everyone around him/her. It is terrifying because there is no cure. It is profound because it is life-long. Autism scares me enough to really consider not having any children.
Ironically Dave, MacGuy has disappeared from my life. We were good friends then he decided to disappear on me. He unfriended me on Facebook and didn't respond to my texts. It is strange because I had no quarrel with him - but it seems that another mutual friend unfriended me over a difference in opinion (long story, but I accused him of not putting the needs of his wife first and he didn't take kindly to being accused of being a bad husband - but I don't make accusations like that lightly since I was friends with his wife as well). So the only conclusion I could come up with was that this other friend told MacGuy that "hey Alex is a terrible, evil person, unfriend him, don't talk to him."
DeleteBut yes, these abstract concepts of love, intimacy, even friendships - autistic people do crave these as well. I'm wondering if my nephew will ever achieve those things. I see a lot of very kind adults in his life (mostly friends of his parents) being extra nice to him, ordering their children to play with him and be nice to him. My sister and her husband have so many very kind friends and they have shown my nephew so much kindness - we are all so incredibly grateful. But as an adult, will people continue to be nice to him?
Anyway, there's a raging debate in my family as to which side of the family passed the autism gene to my nephew. I can identify individuals on both sides of the family (ie. my sister/my side + my bro-in-law's side) who are most probably autistic to some degree. It is enough to make me believe that if I ever had a child (which I won't, no way), the child could well be autistic.
As a parent, i feel sorry for Mrs V. I believe that tough love has it's place. We have to set our eyes on the end point, which in Joe's case, to help him develop self management so that he can self manage and be self reliant to take care of himself after his parents are gone. This journey is most likely to take years.
ReplyDeleteKnowing that he may take more time then normal person to achieve each development milestone, provide he do eventually get there, all the more Mrs V need to start now.
I agree with Dave that Joe should be attending special needs school. Mrs V should first start recognising that her son is a special needs child and start looking for a special needs school for her Joe I have a few friends who have special needs children. The ones who started gets out of self denial faster and start getting their kids in the right school with the right support and therapy can see a much greater improvement in their children's development than those who start late and hoping for a miracle by waiting it out. Their type of love is harming the child and not helping at all.
Tough parental love is like sending ourselves and our child for a long and winding journey, not knowing if the decision was correct while fearing for the worst and at the same time praying and hoping we see a rainbow at the end of the journey.
Hi Colleen. I think the logic that Mrs V (amongst others, including my family, don't forget my nephew is autistic) is that the child will have to at some point integrate into mainstream society, so if you isolate the child by giving him the chance to go to a special needs school, he learns little or nothing there about what it is like to get along with other normal kids, thus he will never ever lead a normal life. At least in the case of my nephew, yeah he had some pretty miserable years in primary school (bullying, no friends, social awkwardness) but at least now he's in a mainstream secondary school and the situation is improving... slowly. We believe that we had made the right choice by making him go mainstream as putting kids like that in a padded cell achieves nothing.
DeleteI see the point that u have made and i agree with it to some extent. I agree that we should integrate them to mainstream school at some point in time. I would always wonder why the stigma on special needs kids and such schools? Why is there this prejudice about special needs school has a lot of "abnormal " children and by mixing with these special needs kid will deprive my child of the chance to develop social skills they need to interact with the rest of the society? Parents of special needs kids prefer non special needs kids as the right crowd to interact with. Aren't these special kids part of the society as well? A lot of parents tend to shun special needs school with the thought that the society wants to abandon them and lock their kids into a cell.
DeleteThese schools goals is to also help these special needs kid reach their development milestones and give them the needed support to grow these at their own pace so that when they are ready, they can move into main stream schools in a more prepared manner.
Though i would say the best time to do it is in preschoolers years and maybe extended a yr or two before sending them into primary school.
In mrs V's case, she is out of much time since her boy is still not potty trained. Though i would feel she can delay the primary school by a yr of two and work to get her son more ready before enrolling him.
Hi Colleen, do you know of instances where kids who go to special needs schools are ever successfully integrated back into mainstream schools at a later stage? Cos Mrs V is afraid that once she takes Joe out of the mainstream, that's it, you're off on a tangent, never to return, ever again.
DeleteHi Alex, Many years back I read an article in the newspaper about a mother with a severely intellectually disabled child. She did much research and found a private institute in the US and sent her child there. Apparently the child showed great improvement within a short time. I believe Mrs V should expand her research and consider such institutes instead of sticking to the mainstream education system.
ReplyDeleteSorry if I am sounding defensive here Gustavo, but your comment almost suggests that Mrs V has not made any effort trying to find treatment, therapies and specialists to deal with her child: quite the opposite, she has spent a LOT of money in the process already. She had been under pressure to put her child in kindergarten in the first instance as it was suggested to her that her child may be a borderline case who may struggle to cope in the early years, but if she missed out on this part and put him in a special school, then he will never ever be integrated into society. It's a hard choice for her, because neither options are perfect and no 'cure' exists for such conditions. Stories like that I'm afraid may only give false hope to parents in Mrs V's position.
DeleteAlex I get the feeling that you and Mrs V probably feel that for borderline cases (e.g. your nephew and Joe) being in a "mainstream" kindergarten/primary school is still preferable to being in any "special" school. Please do not reinforce that perception with Mrs V for the sake of the kid. Your experiences with your nephew is very limited and you also noted that he is only improving slowly in the mainstream school. It could have been much better.
ReplyDeleteThe perception that going to a special school is the end like being streamed to ITE is very uninformed and mostly based on our mental picture of mongoloid-looking low-IQ children doing things together with your precious and otherwise near normal kid - and setting a very low bar in life. It is not like that at all.
It is definitely NOT disadvantages be in a special school early in life especially for borderline cases because we all know most SG mainstream schools are not geared up with enough resources to truly help them improve the most. Most mainstream teachers are crap when it comes to helping special needs children. They only like to focus on the smart kids and are constantly worrying about their KPI's.
A parent has to put negative feelings and fear of social stigma of having a special needs child aside and just consider the needs of the child as central to the decision. I do have a nephew who is a borderline case of autism and ADHD. He was having problems in kindergarten and his mother made a very wise decision to put him into Pathlight School in AMK after kindergarten - even though she had an option to go to a very good top primary school.
Though he is behind mainstream schools by 1 year for his age, the payback is he has achieved phenomenal improvement like winning a Maths prize in class - something unimaginable in kindergarten. And they are following the mainstream syllabus but their teaching methodology is good and tailored. The longer Mrs V dithers the harder it will be to help the Joe who needs specialised education to develop and bloom like my nephew did. Please check up Pathlight School. Do a call and walk in and make a visit. See a classroom in action. Mrs V owes it to Joe to at least visit one of these schools before she decides.
Hi B Tiger - you're right in the sense that my nephew is definitely a borderline case: ironically, his studies are pretty okay. He's pretty average: his PSLE score was average, ie. it gained him entry into a neighbourhood secondary school, he passed everything, failed nothing - which is pretty good for what it's worth, given the circumstances. We realized that given the circumstances, he was never going to be the kinda kid who was going to get top scores and go to a top secondary school - the problems he has encountered were never academic, but more social and he still struggles a lot in that aspect and I think far more could have been done to improve things. He seeks solace in electronic devices (phones, tablets) and plays games - I think that's so detrimental in so many ways: he is not talking to other human beings, he's not learning anything from those games, he should be studying instead of playing games, it is probably doing terrible things to his eyesight. But the people in his life are simply not doing enough to improve his situation - a dose of tough love is called for: take away the phone and tablets for crying out aloud, severely limit the amount of computer games he plays. It's not as if he's enrolling in a class to learn programming and write computer programmes, those games are just turning his situation from bad to worse.
DeleteIt's like a doting parent who gives the child sugar-laden candy because the child likes it, even though that candy is so bad for the child health wise but hey it tastes good and makes the kid happy.
This is why I feel that often, more can be done by the parents. But what do I know, I'm just someone who looks on in cases like that and think, I'm never ever going to play the baby making lottery just in case I end up with an abnormal child.
This is a*
ReplyDelete