Armstrong Dicksmasher4 January 2016 at 05:24
Oh no that does not sound good..I spoke to my brother who is doing relatively well after poly and he told me about how difficult radiology is as all his smart friends who took Science poly course avoided that specific module, ultimately discouraging me from taking it. He instead suggested that I take up music technology as I actually play the piano up till grade 7 and I'll be able to take part in music festivals like Ultra, but I'm not sure about the prospects of working overseas in that course i was reading this article http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204621904577016172350869312 And he's a high school drop out! I wonder if it's out of the question for me , a Singaporean to work as a miner in Australia
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| Which career path would be right for AD? |
OK let me make some points in response to your comment above. Firstly, just because something is difficult doesn't mean that you should shy away from the challenge. There is a very good reason why radiology is not an easy course: it is a course that will lead you to an excellent career path as a radiologist. You will be a highly skilled professional who can get well paid jobs in virtually any country in the world. Did you expect the course to be easy? Of course not. Standards are high and that is because you need very high standards when dealing with X-rays: if you get it wrong, you can over-expose the patient to lethal doses of X-ray and accidentally kill the patient if you mess things up during a standard X-ray. That is why all medical professionals working in hospitals are subject to such high standards, because you want the peace of mind that when you get admitted to a hospital, the professionals know what they are doing.
But all this is common sense: what pisses me off is the way you are looking for an easy solution, a short cut. Like as if there is a simple course you can take that will lead to a lucrative career and you can get a work permit to the country of your choice - what planet are you living on? Are you high on drugs or are you just plain stupid? I have tried so many times to explain this to you and I don't know why I am trying again: countries in the West like Australia, America, Canada and the UK will gladly accept doctors, radiologists, nurses, engineers and other highly trained professionals. And they will tell uneducated bums like you to piss off. So for you to dream about mining because a high school drop out can do it whilst you deem If you said to me, "Alex, sorry but I don't fancy the idea of working 10 hours a day in a hospital, taking X-rays, it doesn't sound like a particularly exciting career to me." Then fair enough, radiology is not for you then. But for you to say no to it because someone told you the course is difficult? That's fucking pathetic man.
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| Will you avoid further education because it is... difficult? |
In any case, what pisses me off even further is your sheer laziness in the way you have gone about your research on the issue of radiology. You asked one person - your brother, just because he is there. You didn't question if he was a reliable source of information, no you just believed what he said because you couldn't be bothered to go talk to someone else who actually knows something about radiology, someone like Choaniki who is currently studying radiology. What the hell is wrong with you, why are you so bloody lazy in terms of gathering useful information? There are so many of us trying so hard to help you yet you are so fucking lazy you cannot be asked to speak to anyone else apart from your brother (oh because he lives under the same roof as you). He is entitled to his opinion about radiology, but what makes you think he is a reliable source of information, then you should even take his opinion seriously? Like did you even bother asking someone like Choaniki what his experience is? Your brother isn't even the one who did radiology - some of his friends did, so what little he can tell you about the course is not even information based on first-hand experience. So why the hell you would even take your brother half-seriously is beyond me.
In any case, your brother's excuse for discouraging you from radiology is that he didn't deem you smart enough (compared to 'all his smart friends') to do the course. I am surprised you just believed him without actually getting insulted. I don't actually agree with him that radiology is only for 'smart people' - I think it really boils down to interest. If you are genuinely interested in radiology, if X-rays fascinate you, then I think you will do well. But if you have so little interest in the course and you only did it because you think it will get you out of Singapore, then you will struggle. Your brother's attitude towards education that of a primary six kid, one that has this simplistic dichotomy between smart and stupid people - it really doesn't work like that when it comes to further education. You don't need to be generally 'smart' to excel in your chosen course, you just need to excel in your chosen field. Am I smart? I don't know - I suck at maths, but I excel at the things I am good at and have built a good career for myself. Did it occur to you that your brother may be the one who is stupid? You bitch about your parents not giving you any useful advice - did it occur to you that your brother is also giving you bad advice like that by putting you down? Why do you put down your parents but somehow trust your brother - when they are all giving you bad advice? Why do you blindly trust your brother so?
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| Your brother's view of the world reminds me of a primary six kid. |
Why do I know your brother is giving you bad advice? Simple. He is suggesting you study music technology - good grief. Okay, at this point I am going to state that I don't think your brother is deliberately trying to sabotage you and screw up your life, but it does tell me at least that his advice is most definitely bad. Disclaimer: I am an expert in the music/media industry and have been interviewed recently by the New Paper on why Sun Ho's career went so desperately wrong. You want advice on getting work on the music/media industry - you come to someone like me. Heck, even Sun Ho spent S$24 million but couldn't make any money in the industry - that should tell you how difficult this industry is. Yet your stupid brother thinks, oh just do a course in music technology and somehow you can get work in music festivals? This is the point where I bury my face in your hands - it is one thing for your brother to give you bad advice, but when you don't recognize bullshit when it hits you in the face, man, that's when I worry just how stupid and gullible you are. Your brother is giving you such bad advice and you're too dumb to even recognize just how awful his advice is? Like seriously, are you for real? There is just no way you will get a work permit if you go down this route, you will find yourself stuck in Singapore for the rest of your life if you listen to your dumb brother's really bad advice.
OK I have said enough for now and I know that my readers are going to berate me for being too harsh on you again. If you can get pass my swearing, you will see that there is a lot of good advice buried in my post and you also need to read the other good advice that my readers have been leaving you in the comments section. I will try my best to be constructive without being too harsh. Once again, thank you very much everybody for contributing to this conversation.
Hello, I've been following this thread with interest. Can I make a correction about the term used - I think everyone is confusing the term radiography and radiology. Radiology is a medical specialty that uses imaging to diagnose and treat disease (e.g. interventional radiology). One can only undergo training to become a radiologist after one is a fully qualified medical doctor and in fact it is one of the most competitive medical specialty to get into. Radiographers on the other hand operate X-rays, CT scans, MRI to produce the images. There is a big difference between these two occupations, and lay people easily get confused.
ReplyDeleteAD, there are NO EASY ROUTES in life. Your penchant for shortcuts and impulsive behaviour will get you into trouble and pull you into a depressionary spiral. You need Patience, Planning and Perseverance to get where you want in life, there are no shortcuts. Good luck!
ReplyDelete*As an aside, I believe you're talking about radiography and not radiologist. You need to be a certified doctor to be a radiologist.
You've hit the nail on the head about easy routes and shortcuts. As we say in Hokkien, "ai pi ga ai swi" (you want it to be cheap and beautiful at the same time) - ie. your expectations are too high, you're hoping for the impossible.
DeleteYes, sorry I stand corrected on the confusion between radiography and radiologist. It is possible to train to become an X-ray technician (also known as X-ray technologists or radiologic technologists) without being a trained doctor. That is the route that Choaniki is taking.
ReplyDeletePS. That is a pretty highly paid job with a very good starting salary.
DeleteI think in UK currently it is possible for radiographers to be more highly paid than doctors due to NHS paycuts. Which is why so many doctors are quitting.
DeleteTo be fair, it's not NHS paycuts per se, but the government is restructuring the whole pay structure they are subject to: so it is not so much a straightforward pay cut per se, but a different package with different conditions - but many agree that the old package is still better than the new one proposed.
DeleteHi LFT, based on my research, a radiographer in the UK would start in the realm of £20,000 per annum with maximum earning potential up to £68,000 per annum as the radiographer becomes more senior. Would that be considered a lot?
Deletehttps://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/radiographer.aspx
Hi there. I think everything is relative. What is a lot? Compared to what? A teacher? A nurse? An IT engineer? Enough to buy a house, bring up a family?
Delete£20k starting salary is kinda the ballpark figure for starting salary, it is a low figure for that's the case with most careers. It does more than triple to £68k which is more than the max salaries for most headteachers. One would be able to live very comfortably on that kind of money.
A way to look at whom we consider wealthy is the UK tax system: there's basic rate (for ordinary folks), higher rate (for rich folks) and additional rate (for mega-super-millionaire folks). You hit the higher rate tax bracket at 40% when your earnings exceed £42,385. That means your senior radiographer would be treated as a rich person at his/her max salary. But no, s/he won't hit the additional rate tax bracket as that starts at £150,000.
If you earned 40k to 50k a year, that would be considered relatively wealthy by most British standards. But then again, what kind of lifestyle do you aspire to?
Let's take property for example: £700k would buy you a modest one-bedroom apartment in zone 1 (central London), but £700k would buy you a reasonably big house in the suburbs of London with a garden, 4 bedrooms. And if you were to go out to somewhere like rural Scotland, £700k would buy you a castle with several acres of land + a lake. (A small modest house in rural Scotland would cost about £40k.)
So really, it depends whom you wanna compare radiographers to when it comes to their wealth - IMHO, I think they earn a very respectable salary and are quite well off as highly skilled professionals, but compared to the mega-rich millionaires like David Beckham, they will never have that kind of celebrity lifestyle. But yes, in general, they will live in nice houses, be able to bring up a family comfortably and generally have very nice lifestyles.
Does this answer your question?
@LIFT, something about the very wealthy in UK compared to Singapore is that they don't believe in ostentatious displays of wealth. Is this a British thing?
DeleteLike the upper middle income people in Singapore go around living in expensive condos and take multi-year loans to buy a continental car like a BMW or Mercedes. Whereas in UK, people like Jeremy clarkson (obviously very wealthy due to Topgear) still lives in a rural house instead of some huge mansion close to London and doesn't drive big flashy cars around. Or take Peter Lim for the extreme Singapore example. He goes around the world buying football clubs (definitely not for investment purposes since they hardly make money), owns several huge properties including an entire condo in Orchard road, spent $3 million buying a limited edition Veyron that can't be driven in Singapore due to it being left hand drive (https://sg.news.yahoo.com/3-million-bugatti-cannot-193304385.html), amongst other crazy flashy displays of wealth.
Hi LFT, yeah thanks for answering my question. It was actually in response to your statement that they are highly paid. I was hoping to get a perspective from someone who actually lives there, because it seemed like with the high cost of living in London, even £68k doesn't seem like much. Pardon me for my myopic view though.
DeleteJ Lin, like I said, everything is relative and how far £68k will go depends on what kind of life you wish to lead.
DeleteLet me tell you about my friend Gemma (not her real name for obvious reasons) - she and I were at VJC together and I saw on her Facebook update that she had a 4th baby recently. And everyone was like, oh congratulations, your baby is beautiful etc. And I just remembered a conversation I had with her when she had 2 kids - she was not working, too busy caring for her babies and her husband's salary was just not going far enough to cover bringing up 2 kids. And then she went to have not just one more, but two more kids. And I was thinking, Gemma, do you not care how poor your kids will be if you are trying to make your husband's salary stretch to bring up 4 kids? Like, do you care if you will not be able to provide for all 4 children - like what if they wanna go to university but you can't afford to send all of them to university?
Then there's my friends Alex & Sue from university, married - both working, good jobs, good money BUT they have two kids and boy, they hemorrhage money every month - Sue wants the best for her kids and Alex makes all kinds of sacrifices. Like he only allows himself to get new shoes during Christmas and birthdays, even if they are falling apart. Why? Because if you want your kids to have the best of everything, even two paychecks are not going to go far enough.
And then there's me - I don't claim to be some kind of financial guru or mega successful; yet you look at me: I am taking one holiday after another (check out my vlogs, like I went on holiday every month last year), I am accumulating a sizable property portfolio in London and yet I am living a hedonistic life where I don't work that hard, I have plenty of money to spend and I am leading a very comfortable lifestyle where I dedicate plenty of time to do the things I like.
What's my secret?
Simple. No children. Never have, never will.
So if you earn £68k a year, then if you wanna bring up a family with 4 kids, then it is not going to go far. But if you have no dependents, then that is a LOT of money to pamper yourself with.
Is anyone going to tell Gemma the relationship between having children and poverty? I doubt it. But Limpeh tells it like it is. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that Gemma is very happy playing the mother of 4 kids in her life - but it still doesn't change the fact that she is living in poverty.
Oh and @Choaniki - I don't think that the address has anything to do with displays of wealth, more a direct result of property prices.
Delete£700k in central London - very modest 1 bedroom flat
£700k in suburbs of London - 2 storey house, with big garden, 4 bedrooms.
£700k in rural countryside - mansion, castle with several acres of land.
The premium you pay to live in the middle of a big city is crazy and that is part of the reason why I am moving out of central London next month. My new place will be considerably larger and I'm only moving 3.5 km north. If I had moved 35 km north, I would be able to get a HUGE house for the same money.
Hence many people who live outside city centers are doing it just to get better value for their money. Heck, with the money I am spending in my new place, I could buy a whole fucking street in rural Scotland, call it Limpeh Boulevard and own every single house in that street as property is so ridiculously lelong lelong cheap there. But in North London, okay, I can get a nice house.
I think it's clear that he is just a strawberry that is both weak and moronic.
ReplyDeleteKudos to you Limpeh for having the patience to even entertain him.
Hi Powell, the reason why I am entertaining him is because I know that it is not just me responding to him, that if I respond, I can generate a conversation (see? even you're joining in) and whilst I do not approve of AD's attitude, we are generating a meaningful conversation, exchanging a lot of great ideas and some other young Singaporeans may come across this in the future and benefit from reading through this exchange of ideas and may find it useful. So I think we're definitely helping more than just AD in this process - and that is why we are exchanging our ideas and interacting in a public domain rather than in private emails.
DeleteRegardless, you're still nice enough to actually talk to him, and wanting to help others via your blog.
DeleteWell, let's put it this way, I'm not just helping him but helping others in AD's position. We all are and that's a meaningful activity that we have all come together to do here.
DeleteMore like 'dudberry'
DeleteDear AD, do you even know what is happening now in Australia? Go find out. They are culling migrants. As Alex said in not so nice terms, in the scheme of things, you are a worthless(no value) bum to their country. Sorry to burst your bubble. I highly agree with others here to knuckle down and first make something of yourself in SG. Sorry to say this again, but you are a worthless nobody right now. Until you change that, you are not going anywhere except as an illegal alien as pointed out. Finally, go do your NS. I was like you in my youth. NS straightened me up, woke up my kiddy dreams and built some character in me as a person. I was a different person when I ORD compared to the kid who entered. I wish you good luck sorting your shit out.
ReplyDeleteThanks Seba. They are culling migrants in Europe as well - we have had a huge influx of Syrian refugees in the last year and on of the side effects is the clamp down on other forms of immigration. The door will always be open to people like doctors and other highly skilled professionals - hence the key is to find a trade of your choice, get the education & training and so the door will be open to you regardless of what happens. And I agree with Seba - you're a totally worthless bum in the eyes of all these countries now. So you've got to try to change that through finishing your formal education.
DeleteAD, having only started work in Japan last year, I know exactly how hard it is for someone with a junior title to get a job overseas.
ReplyDeleteA lot of the general Singaporean mindset is that it should be relatively easy to get a job overseas with the benefit of being able to converse in more than one languages. Unfortunately, they are so wrong. In order for any other company overseas to be willing to hire you, you need to possess specific skills that is really in great demand by the company so that the company can apply the work visa with respect to the immigration system of that country. Like what LIFT and the rest has mentioned, no matter how much you dislike school, make full use of the resources that the school provides to pick up new skills. Even NS might be an opportunity for you to get to know peers who might offer you advice or lessons within their knowledge domains.
I am currently working in the IT field but without any form of formal or specific IT education. I only chanced upon IT during my NS days when a few of my peers happened to be from IT education. I started to get interested and did my own studies, experimentation and development since then.
The reason why I decided to work overseas is more of me feeling disgusted at the hypocrisy of the working environment of IT in Singapore, I felt that my proficiency is stagnating and I had to try something different.
Your reasons to go overseas should not be of just trying to escape harshness but to improve yourself. If you are just trying to escape harshness, no matter where you go to, the environment will just be as harsh, just in a different form. As for me, I like the fast-paced development environment here that most of my Singaporean friends will view as harsh.
Hi Wei Ping, that's what pisses me off about the Singaporean mindset ref: languages. It is really not a big deal to be able to speak more than one language fluently. In fact, monolingual people are a minority in the world we live in. Go to a country like Germany for example, the vast majority of working professionals are fluent in English (and sometimes plus another language like French) - yeah you may find some folks who only speak German and nothing else, but they're unlikely to be working professionals (more like little old ladies who are retired). If you want your languages to give you the competitive edge, you need to be proficient in at least 3 languages at native standard and can operate in at least 5. The vast majority of Chinese Singaporeans can probably handle English + Mandarin and that's kinda it. That's hardly enough to give them any kind of competitive edge.
DeleteThanks for your insightful comment. All the best for your career in Japan!
If what Wei Ping said about most Singaporeans with respect to bilingualism is true, then I am amused. Generally, I wouldn’t consider Singaporeans to be bilingual, seeing how most struggle with English and Mandarin (though I’m not sure about Bahasa and Tamil): a deficient vocabulary, enunciation mistakes, grammatical errors, etc. They might get by, but I wouldn’t be too confident about relying on bilingualism to secure a job abroad. Makes me wonder how Singaporeans would cope with a language like Russian, since words take on a different meaning if the emphasis is placed on another syllable (based on my understanding). But speaking of pronunciation, what do you think of the new JC’s name? (run a search on Eunoia JC and you should get the gist of what’s going on) Personally, I’m not a fan of the name: eunoia is tricky to pronounce; not a good idea if citizens already have difficulty with simpler English words. Besides, it doesn’t look like the name has been well-received, regardless of the intentions behind it. It’s alarming that more people are concerned with the name than with the proposed pedagogy; from a PR perspective, what do you make of this? And could you share some insight into British naming conventions? Would the Brits have behaved similarly (in terms of selecting a name for the school) in a similar situation? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
DeleteHi Abi, I kinda just shrugged my shoulders over the whole Eunoia saga. Yes it is a strange sounding name, but give it a year or two and people will get used to it and nobody would remember what all the initial fuss was all about.
DeleteWeiping, that's really cool! So you are actually working in Japan without any formal education, by acquiring skills that the company has in demand on your own?
DeleteAD, at the risk of speaking on behalf of Weiping, I am warning you to stop looking for shortcuts. You are misreading Weiping's words. Let me quote Weiping, he said he got into IT "without any form of formal or specific IT education." I read that as him having gotten into IT without an formal IT or specific IT education (such as the diploma you are currently studying for). That may mean that Weiping has completed his formal education in a completely different field but then made a switch into the IT sector despite not having had the relevant education. Loads of people make mid-career switches like that (including myself) - this just means that you are not necessarily stuck with the career path you studied/trained for in your earlier days, but it is possible (though never easy) to make that switch.
DeleteIt sounds like you are looking for a shortcut again. At the risk of you getting collectively bitchslapped by so many people here again, stop that kind of behaviour. But by all means, speak to Weiping please - he is a wise man.
@LIFT this sounds to me like all the more reason not to enter IT industry. If someone could gain sufficient competencies thru on the job training what is to stop anyone from a cheap developing country from getting a paper from some degree mill and coming over to take over your job? (Already happening btw).
DeleteAnd if the Japanese are anything like what I know, as non-native you are only going to be working on some low-skilled position for very long hours. Not exactly immigration class candidate here.
AD, u don't have a skill to offer to ppl. Face it! U need to complete school. If u seriously find no interest in IT, please go and sit on the toilet bowl and figure out what u want to do then get out of ur shit and make changes. U've to remember no one owns u a living. While over at Alex's blog here, these are for ur references to aid u to make more informed decision. U shouldn't take us for word and think it's the solution to ur problems. U've a lot to do. Talk to ppl in career fairs to understand the kind of work they r in, read up more on current trends so that u know what's happening around the world. How u gear towards ur career is also dependable on how the world moves.
DeleteI've friends who work as researchers in Japan. It's not as fantastic as what u think. They faced ostracizism just cos they r not native Japanese even they r all Asians. The hard truth is the Jap are the most polite ppl in front of u but deep within them they bear a lot of grudge. Plus the constant demand in perfection can be exceptional stressful. Even among their own ppl, the level of emotional torture can be really stressful and hard to handle, which speaks why Japan has a pretty high suicide rate. My friend's son was bully so badly in the school that they decided to pull out from Japan and head back to Singapore. As a tourist there, the japs treat u like King but not when u r working there.
AD, just to clarify, I did obtain a Degree but it was rather irrelevant to the field. When applying for the position, the person assessing your CV would only look for what is relevant. Perhaps LIFT can further elaborate on that.
DeleteSo, it is not without any formal education but without any relevant formal education. I mean the World Wide Web exists for a reason to share information. You could pick up whatever you wish to learn just by having connectivity. For me, it's all about programming and engineering. I could get started on a new programming language, set up a new test environment within hours for free. That is where you start practising and learning your craft. Find what is it that you really want to do by trying out different things. It's definitely easier these days to pick up a new craft or two. But to bring it to a professional level, you have to put in a good amount of effort(which my Singaporean peers considered me as being obssessed). Then, of course you can showcase your experimental works as part of your CV. That's how I got hired.
Okay... I feel like I am being bitch slapped with wisdom left and right, but I actually like it :O
ReplyDeleteIt's tough medicine and I'll swallow it gladly. I'm aware how frustrating it can be to deal with me but thank you so much for your patience t.t
Okay okay first off I'll have to decide which country is best for me , but it is difficult without first visiting the countries and seeing the place for myself first. Initially I thought of European countries like Denmark, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden because of their fantastic socioeconomics and social security, healthcare, weather and affordable education, in addition to that also I made a few friends in those countries on interpals lol.
But London and Canada sounds good too.
But nevertheless, as @choaniki outlined, nursing is pretty much my "only choice" regarding the choices I have in poly. I'm disappointed that NYP is phasing out their Diagnostic Radiography, Physiotherapy and Radiation Therapy courses
(http://www.nyp.edu.sg/shs/courses/full-time-diploma/diploma-in-diagnostic-radiography) and restricting it to A' Levels holders, all of which are on demand overseas :\
I looked through this site
http://www.visabureau.com/uk/shortage-occupations-list.aspx
and am I right to say that, if I genuinely want to acquire the skills to become a radiographer, I'll have to complete NS , before furthering studies in Radiography in SIT?or take up a trades course in Alberta's polytechnic like xxtoweringxx suggested.
The most probable choice of my poly reroute now is Nursing , and then i'm worried that it's classified as low skill
@AD don't let winking doll hear that you think nurses are low skill (a frequent reader of this blog who did a career switch to nursing).
DeleteJust because one of our minister thinks that nursing is a low skilled job does not make it one. I think our parliament and all politicians are low skilled jobs. Our MPs are part timers and ministers just use statistics compiled by civil servants to craft policies in the sky. But enough about them.
Not everyone is cut out to be a nurse. They are second in knowledge to doctors and in certain aspects like patient care are supposed to surpass doctors even. You need lots of empathy to be a nurse. It takes a strong stomach not too to handle all the infected wounds, vomitus, urine, faeces, blood, etc.
They are also highly in demand which is why even Filipinos with nursing paper certificates from degree mills can't get a work pass in UK. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3086869/For-just-43-bought-bogus-papers-qualified-nurse.html
OK a few points for you AD.
Delete1. If you wish to consider Denmark, Switzerland, Finland or Sweden, you need to get past the language barrier and learn the local language to a very high standard before you will be granted a work permit. Say you wanna work in a Danish hospital, you would be expected to be able to speak Danish to a very high standard. Can you do that? Because if you can't, then you will not be given the job. It's that simple. The UK and Canada are at least English speaking countries - so you won't be rejected on the basis of you not speaking the local language to a high enough standard. It is hard to become fluent in a language like Danish until you have lived in the country - I only became properly fluent in French after I have lived in France; but you are caught in a catch-22 situation. Unless your parents are happy to find the money for you to study say in a Danish university (for you to be in a Danish speaking environment for 3 years), your Danish will never be good enough to do a job in a Danish-speaking work environment. But even if you do that - how do you know that you can achieve fluency in Danish in just 3 years? It is a gamble at best and would depend on your ability to pick up a new language. The fact that you have made a few friends in those countries doesn't mean anything as they are not going to be able to do much to help you (apart from trying to help you learn the language - but that's more down to how fast you are as a learner).
So let me get this right AD, you don't have A levels - you only have O levels as your highest qualification so far and you went to poly directly after secondary school, is that correct? Is that is the case, then Choaniki is 100% right - your only viable option is nursing. As you have seen on the list on http://www.visabureau.com/uk/shortage-occupations-list.aspx - yeah there are plenty of occupations on that list, but these are all quite highly skilled professional jobs that require either a sector-specific degree and/or quite specialist training.
If you wanna go down the route of becoming a radiographer, then yes what you said is correct but can you qualify for SIT if you don't have A levels? The answer is no, you do not go from O levels to a degree course directly. On SIT's website, it states clearly what their requirements are: http://singaporetech.edu.sg/admission-requirements/admission-requirements-local-diplomas-4
http://singaporetech.edu.sg/admission-requirements/admission-requirements-a-levels-ib
So basically, you either need a poly diploma or A levels - you have neither. Maybe the poly in Alberta as XXToweingXX has suggested has more flexible admission requirements, but that's an expensive option as that's studying in Canada.
As for Nursing, that's hardly low skill. You're making the mistake once again by defaulting to what your perceptions are rather than what the rules state when it comes to highly skilled professions which will get you a work permit for the West. Your opinion doesn't matter and for that matter, Singaporeans' opinion do not matter either - what matters is whether or not nursing appears on the list of skilled professions that will get you a work permit.
And it does.
So the moral of the story? Stop trusting your opinion and start looking stuff up on the internet.
Oh and furthermore, listen to Choaniki - can you handle being a nurse? It may be a career path that can get you into most countries in the world as nurses as in such high demand everywhere - but can you work in a hospital and do the job of a nurse? Have you ever spent any time in a hospital observing how demanding the job is? It is hard work, very hard work, dealing with very sick people in difficult situations. That is why nurses are so much in demand, because not many can rise to the challenge that nursing demands.
DeleteThe other side of the pasture always looks so green, too good and tasty for us to swallow. But when u eat of it and taste of it, u realize it's not what u expected and feel cheated. Then u start lamenting and rant how shitty ur life can be. U ended up ranting throughout ur entire life till u become an old whim and pass on. When u r on ur deathbed on the verge of death u probably conclude ur life had been a pile of shit. Then u breathe out ur last breath dying with a life full of shit.
Delete~Alas~
Oh well...
Even the world's most supportive & encouraging person is willing to extend his help to u, giving u the best advice etc., u can never be successful if u r unable to find joy in life and enjoy the process seriously. Not to forget, we r living in a world full of temptations. While being 18 could mean u've a lot of room for exploration, it doesn't means u can bang around 1001 things w/o knowing what exactly u r banging at.
AD, it seems to me u dislike ur current situation so much that u think by moving out of Singapore is the solution. Unfortunately, this won't solve all ur problems and u may face new set of problems wherever u go. U r just merely finding reasons to leave, a reason for u to use as an excuse to escape the problems you r facing. U may keep migration in mind for ur future but it shouldn't be ur top priority for now. U shd be someone full of aspirations thinking seriously what u want to do in ur life instead! The choice u made shouldn't be made solely based on migration, not even more to escape problems u think Singapore or ur parents are the cause of it. If u seriously want to be a nurse, be one that u've compassion for the sick not 'cos it's a require skill for migration.
I agree with Katie - I'm just worried that AD may try to get qualifications in a trade for the wrong reasons (immigration purposes) rather than because he has a real interest in it.
DeleteDropping out of his current course may be a blessing in disguise (as Choaniki pointed out, AD's current diploma is not worth the paper it is printed on). He needs to take this opportunity to make sure that he doesn't make the same mistake twice, so that he will not waste any more time and money barking up the wrong tree. That's a lot to think about - and perhaps getting NS out of the way first may give him the time & space to figure out just what he wants to do with his life and then make the right selection in terms of education/training options.
Speaking from my past working experience in healthcare, I used to work with a group of UK experts together with their team of IT engineers to assist us in developing our beta prototype together with a software. And these ppl had worked with big guys like GE, Roche, Abbott, RainDance Technologies etc. If I'm not mistaken, IT enginneers are still pretty much in demand. With the upcoming trend of 3D printing and robotic technology, there's a need for IT engineers to come in to sync the technologies together. The translation of discoveries into something that could be used as an effective healthcare tool is often greatly challenged. There's seriously a need for someone who can seamlessly bridge these 2 together.
DeleteAin't sure what makes AD enroll into an IT course he don't find interest in. I know nuts about IT but my previous job had broaden my view in how IT enginneering can bridge into science. I find this very interesting yet daunting at the same time 'cos we may become 1/2 robots in the future (http://www.pddnet.com/news/2014/04/bioengineers-create-circuit-board-modeled-human-brain)! Ok, I digress a bit. But this is one area AD can make out of it from the current course he's in. Something he could explore. His dip could be a stepping stone for further advancement. He just needs to find a direction that works well for him and move towards it. Singapore is way too backward and not willing to take risk. So he probably have to take this out of Singapore. It's all about finding out what interest u've and make the most out of it. Again, no foolproof solution, these engineers work their arses off developing these technologies and often constraints by grants. Not really something u r keen to explore? Then AD u seriously need to talk to a career counsellor which I believe ur school has one who can offer u better advice. I'd think it's also good for u to attend career fairs and talk to ppl to have a better understanding. The above is just FYI. Ur life shouldn't be led under the opinions of others. Ask, seek and be informed.
@Katie, let's all agree that anyone with a niche skillset is in high demand and can easily get a job in any developed countries. In a previous life I once worked at a helpdesk supporting NUH. This particular American doctor from the now defunct John Hopkins Medical Centre also has a Masters in Computer Science and could differentiate between different classes of IP addresses.
DeleteHaving said that most of the engineers being churned out by the Singapore educational system are qualified to do low level support stuff only. If Singapore had companies like Intel, AMD or even the ARM then AD's IT engineering Diploma might have some value. As it is most I doubt he is qualified to do anything related to 3D printing or robotics (different engineering field).
Which is the ironic thing that even a 2 year nursing Diploma (which most Singaporeans consider low skilled) is worth more than some nice sounding engineering one.
Which is why a huge lot of trained engineers are leaving or not even getting an engineering based job in the first place. In my current batch of coursemates there are not one, not two but three trained engineers doing a mid-career conversion.
So although Singapore is short of engineers the government, instead of asking ex-engineers why decides to use social engineering to get more impressionable minds to sign on instead.
As a closing i'll just leave this article here: http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/shrinking-pool-of-engineers-poses-national-risk
Thanks for the insightful post Choaniki. I agree that nursing is grossly undervalued in Singapore.
DeleteChoaniki no doubt it's the kind of job where Singapore is lack of yet no one is good enough. I'm actually trying to to see the positive side of the course he's currently in via my past working experiences, something he might want to explore. More towards how one can make interest out of it. Though we can safely say a dip in computer engineering might be literally useless, a change of course may render the same effect as well. Simply 'cos we r living in a world run by academia. There'll be more and more ppl getting educated with at least a degree on hand. In about 10-20yrs down the road, having a degree is perhaps practically worthless. Living in such a competitive world could also means u need to be in an area of speciality, not necessary bound by your degree. However, the process of gg thr school to get a degree is a foundation of discipline, not so much in whether u can get a job out of it. Sounds irony but realistic speaking, we r not Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg who are successful drop-outs. We can't simply take inspiration from these ppl, drop out of school and try to do something w/o knowing what direction to gear towards to.
DeleteTaking doctors as a highly skilled professionals for eg, it's always a misconception that by getting a medical degree means u r guarantee a successful medical career. Not entirely true, no doubt a medical degree is a fundamental requirement to practice medicine. U'll need to find an area that u can find interest in, get specialize and gear towards that by using the education u had formally received. Ur success shouldn't be determined by that piece of paper, rather it should be by the amount of hardwork and determination with a clear focused goal in mind. We've a lot med grads every year but how many can actually become a cardiologist, oncologist or neurologist. Think about it, not many.
As what AD has pointed out he's not rich. Being in a semester in school, it's perhaps a thousand dollars gone towards tuition fee. The school is not gg to refund this portion of money should he dropped out, neither the money is transferable to another course of his choice. What if he re-enters into a new course he thinks it has a better prospect and then to find no interest? Another few months and a thousand dollars down the drain again? Factually speaking, how many more months and money he can afford to waste? The more he shouldn't take it for granted esp when his parents r paying for his tuition fee.
While using doctors as an eg seems a bit off, I feel by telling AD how useless his dip is gg to be is not really a good idea, neither is him being in the course a problem either. He himself is the problem. He has too much resentment and he rants. One can never be constructive if he only know how to rant. He needs to learn how to find interest in the current course he's in OR find an interest in him that he believe he can do well in and make the change. I believe we've spoken enough what's good for him but if he's not going to sort his problems out in a logical realistic manner, I'm afraid it's not getting him anywhere.
@AD there is a Chinese proverb that goes 「船到桥头自然直」. You are just 18 and have your whole life ahead of you. You should take things one step at a time. Who knows in a few years others routes could have opened up for you. Or you might have found a girlfriend, gotten married and forgotten all about leaving the country. So just finish NS first before deciding your next step. This is something noone can avoid. Even LIFT completed his NS before leaving for UK for good.
ReplyDelete(Reposted because I noticed too many typos)
DeleteOf course I had to finish NS before I left Singapore. Quite simply, the only way I could have avoided NS was if my parents had emigrated before I turned 16, my parents acquiring citizenship in another country (thus enabling me to do the same) and I renounced by Singaporean citizenship before my 16th birthday. You need to be the citizen of another country before you can renounce your S'porean citizenship. You canNOT just give up your Singaporean citizenship and render yourself stateless: the Singaporean authorities will only allow you to renounce your citizenship if you can prove that you are now a citizen of another country. So until you can do that, you're still a Singaporean citizen whether you like it or not.
Nursing is low skilled?! According to whom? Idiots? Nurses make very good money and are highly trained skilled health care practitioners. Has AD ever stayed at a hospital? They have lives in their hands! They can cause serious damage if they make mistakes. How can AD say they are low skilled? Twit!
ReplyDeleteHi Di, I think that nurses do not have a very good reputation in Singapore because society takes them for granted. So few Singaporeans consider nursing as a viable career path - the perception is that you will spend your time in hospital cleaning up shit, piss, blood, vomit, pus and another crap that comes out of a human body when of course, both you and I know that there's a lot more to being a nurse than being a glorified cleaner in a hospital. There is a lot of misinformation in Singapore - coupled with the Asian bias towards certain professions. Students are told to study hard so they can become a doctor (rather than a nurse) and indeed, the healthcare industry in Singapore is reliant on foreign workers from countries like Myanmar and Philippines to fill the gaps left by Singaporeans who shun nursing. But regardless of why AD feels the way he does, I am angry with him for even asking if nursing is too lowly skilled because so many of us have already told him that it is a viable career path that can lead to a work permit in the West and even if he doesn't trust us (for whatever reason), then he can easily go online and verify that. He did actually post a link to 'shortage occupations' in the UK - these are professions where you can get a work permit for in the UK cos we're short of these skilled professionals and YES nursing is on the list. Why didn't he read that list?
DeleteWhy live in ignorance when you can get the facts in a few minutes? That's what pisses me off about his attitude. What do you think Google is for, damnit?
It is too bad that nursing is not regarded well in Singapore. Here, they are well respected and highly paid. They make more money possibly more than teachers. Pharmacists are well regarded and make good money too.
DeleteI am annoyed that AD suggests it is beneath him to be a nurse (lowly skilled). I don't think he even though about whether he's good enough to be a nurse! What an attitude! What is he qualified to do right now? Flipping burgers?
Frankly, I think he is an idiotic arrogant young man who thinks he is above his parents, his peers at the poly, and the common Singaporean. He doesn't even have his "A" levels (or he would be in radiography as he said)! That makes him a Grade 10 graduate at best!
I think that his lack of respect for nurses reflects a more general Singaporean lack of respect for nursing. Not that I am trying to justify his position, even a trained nurse is more qualified than AD right now and can easily get a job in the UK or Canada - whilst AD would be turned away by these countries as unskilled, uneducated, untrained garbage. That's food for thought for him.
DeleteA little background about myself. Like AD, I was a troubled youth during poly days. Never did finish final year and got kicked out due to my partyboy ways. Also, I dreaded NS back then as a kid. I tried to avoid it like an idiot by staying as long as I can in poly, quite in denial of the inevitable. Then NS caught up to me. Found myself in shock and depressed somewhat during the start. Then slowly I remoulded myself as a person and built some character. NS really wakes up your kiddy ideas very well on what you want in life. I had a damn good long think during those 2 years. Also, my peers are fellow JC and poly students. We exchanged ideas on what we want in life and how we will go about it after we ORD. That helped me decide on my plan. On the very same day I got my pink IC, that night I flew out to Australia and stayed there for the next 12 long years. Got my degree, did some side work there while applying for PR. Alas, the govt changed, policies changed. They did a migrant cull and shut the doors to immigration. My PR went to hell and I had to come back to SG 3yrs ago. Now I ask you this, as a nobody with no recognised qualificaion or profession society accredition, what makes you think you stand a chance?
ReplyDeleteCrikey. 12 years in Oz and you couldn't get citizenship? OK even if I were to deduct your time at university + any additional studies, that would mean at least 6 years working there. That would have been more than enough to gain PR status had that been in the UK. In fact in the UK, you only need to work here for 5 years to claim PR status (time spent here as a student doesn't count).
DeleteThe alternative of course, is to marry a local and stay on as a spouse.
That said, if my situation went well, I would be like Alex right now living overseas. So having made the attempt to go overseas as an immigrant,I believe Alex and I are well qualified in our suggestions.
ReplyDeleteI agree as well to Katie. Would you grab any key, just any key, to open the lock to escape? You will be depressed doing something you dont even have a passion for!! Will you even complete the course? Look at you ffs and what you said about your studies.Really now? You cant handle what you did and you want to go thru all that again just to get the golden key? Sorry but with your attitude, my money will be on another emo episode again from you and your studies.
I have met many like you and your quest for the golden key. Know what? I see less and less of those ppl every year during uni. They all got kicked out or dropped out every year. Not necessarily in my course but in uni. They want to be where the money is or they want the golden key to that profession. They all died. Wiped out. Their skeletal remains litterhe side of the path to the finish line. Think very carefully. Go do your NS, then decide again as we all have said already. Sorry if I do make you shed a tear and hurt your feelings with my harsh words. I have been you. I was you. And I have seen countless you in my life. They all failed. Dont do it man. Do your NS then get your shit together.
I can understand and relate to AD's desire to leave Singapore - but it is just that his whole approach to the issue has not been logical at all and he did piss a lot of people off in the way he has been looking for shortcuts and simple solutions. I want to be of help to him - but I am equally frustrated by his approach to the process and his unwillingness to spend a bit of time to look up reliable information to help him along the way. Instead, he listens to people like his brother (yeah as if his brother is some kind of immigration expert) instead of us. You know the saying: you can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
DeleteJust my two cents to AD on trades in Australia. It isn't they hand you tools and let you work as a miner because you say you are willing to work.
ReplyDeleteThere are apprenticeships, courses you need to go through, before you are even a qualified miner. Which still means study. http://www.tafewestern.edu.au/explore-industries/mining
And the above is usually only appropriate for locals, who have work rights.
So while it is possible to move to Australia as a tradie with skills they need, these are people who studied and have working experience in those fields, so having a tertiary skill is still a necessity, and that brings you back to your studies.
Keep the idea of moving in the back burner until you have a skillset. You don't have a choice until then.
PS: the miner article is almost 5 years old, the resource boom has been over for a while and mines have shut down, so give that idea a miss.
Just adding my 2 cents on trades in Australia, you don't say you want to be a miner and they throw you a pick and ask you to work. It no longer works that way. Even Aussie miners go through a period of apprenticeship accompanied by learning before they are considered to be qualified miners.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tafewestern.edu.au/studying-at-tafe/apprentices-and-trainees
So while it is possible to move to or at least temporarily work in Australia as a tradie where they have a skills shortage. They are looking only at people with skills and working experience.
It still leaves AD with only one option, to develop a skillset that will be needed by wherever he wants to move to. Any ideas of moving will need to take a backseat until then.
LOL - it no longer worked that way for like 60 to 80 years! Mining is extremely high tech these days, okay maybe in some remote corner of Africa, they still dig stuff out of the ground with a pick or a shovel, but in Australia, it is very high tech and you need the relevant degrees and training to get a job in mining. I doubt AD knows anything about mining - he just thought he chanced upon a short cut, that's all.
DeleteThat's the problem. The general populace has a rather perverse mindset about what is considered a low-skilled job. AD, you are only 18, you should really try out all sorts of jobs. That will make you realise that there is no such thing as a low-skilled job, but only how proficient you are at your job.
DeleteLet's take nursing as an example, the lower-skilled nurses can only be tasked with menial duties such as cleaning and basic caretaking, while the higher-skilled nurses require basic knowledge of drugs to be able to take on the role to administer drugs for the patients. The lower-skilled nurses and the higher-skilled nurses have different pay schemas. The world has no lack of lower-skilled nurses but there is always a shortage of higher-skilled nurses as they can assist the doctors more efficiently.
In my industry, we have this saying that anybody can be a code monkey but not anyone can be a proper software engineer. You need to have the skills and the attitude to continue learning and experimenting.
Hi Wei Ping, thanks for explaining it so clearly - the difference between highly skilled and lowly skilled nurses. I couldn't have put it any clearly myself.
DeleteTo further clarify, in the healthcare field there are 2 general category of nurses. They are the enrolled nurses and registered nurse or nurse practitioners. Enrolled nurses in SG only require an ITE certification while registered nurses have Diplomas or higher. There are even nurses with Masters from NUS. These nurse clinicians are allowed to diagnose and prescribe medication for certain types of patients so they are as good as doctors.
DeleteEven in Singapore, there is a strong demand of nursing staff but the supply is very low in Singapore from the local.
Deletehttp://www.todayonline.com/singapore/nursing-vacancies-among-hardest-fill-sporeans-report
Not trying to disparage them, but the quality of foreigner vs local nurses are just day and night. Which is why opening up competition to jobs to global market is just foolish. But that I story for another day.
DeleteI think when you are all talking about the lower skilled nurses, you mean the orderlies, perhaps. They are the attendants in a hospital responsible for the non medical care of patients. In Canada the nurses are registered with degrees. So, Singaporeans are ignorant when they look down on nurses.
ReplyDeleteI'm from public healthcare and I have nothing but utmost respect for your profession.
DeleteUnfortunately, Singaporeans in general tend to be misguided (i.e. the poorly drafted white paper statement classifying nursing as a "low-skilled" profession) and myopic.
Maybe someone should come up with a chart on the different titles within the Nursing profession in various countries. I'm sure that most titles in Singapore will just be called Nurse
DeleteIt seems everyone has this perspective that these western countries are so great, and they are at its mercy. I feel that every country has its plus points and bad points. AD may feel attracted to these countries because they appear exotic to him, but in reality he might find that there are challenges to living in any country and he might very possibly die within months just from a potent combination of naivete and culture shock. He will find that these other countries are not paradise even after he gets through the doors. No one owes you a living. He will have to slog hard to get by, this time without support from his parents, who he seems to hate and says is poor but somehow managed to support him financially thus far and even pay for piano lessons until grade 7. As for music technology, there are plenty of people in Singapore that have grade 7, and it means nothing from the perspective of specialized skills not available in western countries, unless you are not only a music prodigy but also very lucky to be the one in a million to get recognized. Trying to carve a lucrative career as a music teacher in another country is laughable.
ReplyDeleteI managed to migrate easily because my company gave me a transfer and had legal and HR teams to deal with the visa applications. Even with my company supporting and paying for the visa, my visa was rejected twice before finally being approved on the third time. And this is for someone with specialized skills and earning a six figure salary. As LP would say, what are you smoking, AD?
Even if AD took everyone's advice and got a degree in Nursing, gets his act together, manages to migrate to one of the countries that he wants and even finds a job in a hospital that pays him enough to survive, does he realize that there will also be social adjustment issues? This is not even going into how he does not speak the language. He will be very lonely without familiar surrounds and family, and it takes inner strength to get through the first few difficult years on his own. I'm sure he thinks interpals will solve all his social problems.
Sorry i missed this interesting comment but better late than never.
DeleteI think it is down to each individual to make the right choices for himself but once you have made a big decision, you should follow through and make it work. I did just that, but i had the luxury of having done my degree in the UK on scholarship, that gave me ample time to live in the UK as a student to see if I liked life here (compared to Singapore) and by the time I graduated, the choice was pretty clear in my head that life in the UK was far more suitable for me than in Singapore and that I really did not want to return to Singapore. In an ideal world, AD should study abroad for a period to acquire some useful skills before making that big decision - because right now, I think he is basing his decision on the fact that he does not like life in Singapore and he is simply assuming that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Well it can be if you make it work for you (ie. good job, a lot of money, plenty of friends) but you could screw it up to - it is down to the individual to do what it takes to make it work out fine.
Thanks everyone for sharing your opinion.
ReplyDeleteOne final check before I decide to go into NS to sort my mind or into Nursing.
I discovered my L1R4 of 16 was enough to go into Civil Engineering with Business in SP
(http://www.sp.edu.sg/wps/portal/vp-spws/spws.fsu.courseintakesandcut-offpoints)
(http://www.sp.edu.sg/wps/portal/vp-spws/schabe.cse.ftdip.civilengineeringwithbusiness)
() and a related field on the list of occupations in demand, Geotechnical Engineer is listed.
So this is my last attempt to look for another field before enrolling that is closer to my interest / personality/ passion while still being in demand overseas.
Is the diploma comparable to nursing in overseas prospects?
Thank you everyone again for your generous opinions and experiences shared. I learnt alot and I still have alot of reading and reflecting to do before I come to a decision
AD, u've totally missed the point! And NO! Those 2 dip has absolute no relation to nursing and u can't compare like this! The dip/deg u r gg to obtain thr' education only serves as a stepping stone, it doesn't gives u a guarantee career both here and overseas!
DeleteU r like a headless fly flying senselessly! If u intend to be a nurse, first of all u need to ask urself whether do u have the compassion for the sick and willing to take on the job to care for the sick? Meaning u should not be afraid of bodily fluids (blood, feces, urine, wound discharge, etc.), able to handle patients' requests which include helping them to shower, urinate, change, etc. U'll also face death as well meaning u get to see death bodies in ur line of job. This kind of job requires a lot of empathy and patience. Don't know how's it's like? Go and and observe in a hospital and see how nurses work. If ur answer is NO, then u don't have the cut to be a nurse.
Alright on a sidenote if u really want to see the world. U can apply for working holiday visa at NZ under their Singapore work exchange programme which u can stay up to 6 months upon approval (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/workingholiday/singaporeworkexchangeprogramme.htm). As u look at the requirements, u still need to be in school or finish school. Soooo u r still basically back to square one! Figure out what u want first!
DeleteOn topic, I'll like to stress that an ABRSM piano grade 7 means NOTHING. The amount of ignorance piled on is alarming to the point of being ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteTo pursue a musical career, you DO NOT need any certification. Just crazy loads of talent and/or hard work. Like, the-world-wants-to-pay-to-listen-to-you-omg talent and/or practice-20-hour-per-day-till-your-bloody-fingers-bleed-lol hard work.
Your timing/luck has to be right too. You can be an awesome musician but if you happen to be born in an era where other people simply happen to be better, you are hard out of luck. The sweetest gigs will go to them and you have to settle.
If you do not have any of that, the best you can do with an ABRSM grade 8 (and the original poster only has grade 7 mind you) is to apply for a teaching job in Yamaha music school. Teaching mewling kids of misguided parents who think ABRSM grade 8 is something worth crowing about.
I just wanted to say that you've hit the nail on the head ref: piano grade 7 :) LOL.
DeleteOK people I'm off to Spain in a few hours. I will keep on approving the comments as they come in but AD, make sure you do your homework in the meantime and get as much useful advice as you can here.
ReplyDeleteI'll be back next week. I have an interview coming up for you guys, akan datang.
Oh and you want shortcuts - I have one for you. Marriage. Yeah just marry someone from the country you wanna move to. That will instantly get you the right to reside in your spouse's country and you will have the right to work there (then after some years, you can naturalize as a citizen). That is the simplest solution because your right to reside in the country is dependent on your marriage - the issue of merit doesn't even come into the equation.
OK, I am simplifying the situation (eg. in the UK your spouse needs to be rich enough to support you), but put money aside, the easiest route is marriage.
Voila - there's your shortcut. Will AD start trying to find an American spouse now?
Oh my gosh Alex! That's so wrong! Even I'm also trying to get out of Singapore, marrying a local is the very last least thing on my mind! Though my friends in Australia has been suggesting that to me and more than willing to introduce some nice hot Aussie guys there. Goodness!!! I intend to do a master there, a crossover course where science meets art where I could work as both a scientist and artist at the same time. I'm actually more excited to head back to school to explore this than finding a spouse there.
DeleteI know, I know, love & marriage is complex and of course you should marry for love and never use it as a route to get into a country. That's just using your spouse for emigration.
DeleteBut I was just surprised that no one has mentioned it thus far in the debate ...
OK OK I gotta dash for the airport now. I'm off to Spain this morning.
Marriage is not bad thing tbh if AD wants a shortchut. Just do a LDR, fly over to UK/wherever AD wants and pop a ring to propose. Say distance sucks and you want to use marriage to stay together.
DeleteErrr... AD don't even know how to handle his life, I doubt he's able to handle a relationship, not to say a LDR. And love shouldn't be established based on migration.
DeleteAD..just go for your NS. On the plus side, you are not the only one facing enlistment. Don't make choices now that you will surely regret in the years to come, just for two years. And trust me.. living life abroad as a fugitive or asylum seeker will be a lot worse than anything the Army can throw at you.
ReplyDeleteTo put it bluntly, you don't seem to be the gutsy sort like Alvin Tan (alvivi) to survive on the run.
I totally agree with that last statement!
DeleteMy first comment here.
ReplyDeleteAD, I dont know why Alex has teken the time and effort for you. Perhaps he saw traces of his younger self , perhaps he cant stand a young man waste away. His advise, brutal and harsh, is exactly what you need. It appears he has spend more time on your case then you have taken to research your prospects. Honestly, you have been darn lucky.
One thing I would disagree with him is where he says "you will find yourself stuck in Singapore for the rest of your life"
Actually with your current mindset, Singapore is your best bet. And you need NS - it will broaden your horizon and give you a taste of hard work. A migrant's life is never an easy one - it could be fulfilling, you can achieve a lot more but it is definitely not gong to be walk in the park. A couple of years overseas by yourself will help you grow and change perspectives. And then you can make decisions...
So yes my advice to you, AD, is - get out of that sense of entitlement(seems to have become our birthright) , knock out that sense of superiority , and get that butt out of the seat. Life is meant to be great not easy.
Thanks for your first comment - keep them coming!
DeleteOn the topic of nursing study, Singapore government just announced more scholarship for those study nursing course for both diploma and degree courses.
ReplyDeleteOn the topic of gaining immigration status through marriage, sorry to say, it is just as teneous as having a job and staying long enough to gain a green card status, at least true for the US. My close friend is an American married to a Singaporean who lived in Canada for the last 20 years. Her husband's visa waiver has been revoked and he has not been able to enter US for the last 2 years. They were in the midst of buying a property in Florida, has a child who is also an American passport holder, and were applying for thr hubby's green card status when it all came crashing down. The American wife has been appealing for him for the last 2 years and still get rejected twice!! They are trying now for the third time and hoping enough time has past now for his appeal to be approved. The ICAS is not obliged to give an explanation and so they are both stucked now in Singapore. Another American friend who married a Taiwanese wife here in Singapore (I know both very well as we worked in the same company) is also having problems sponsoring his wife for a permanent stay in US. Both are highly educated and has a child due in a few weeks time.
ReplyDeleteOne other option which applies to the US is the green card diversity lottery. I have personally known of 2 Singaporeans who have won the lottery (literally) and are now living and working in Chicago and NY. The lottery is not a scam but there are many internet scam pages, so do be careful. It is completely based on which country of origin you come from and there is a quota given to each country. Good news is Singaporea's quota is never filled up each year. Bad news is it is a lottery afterall, so chances of striking a free entry pass to US is slim.
Well, AD, if you don't know what you want, at least you must know what you don't want.
ReplyDeleteAnd you work backwards from there.
But for NS, you should finish it.
For Engineering - mostly Mathematics. It makes A' maths look like a walk in the park. Of course the usuals like interning at engineering firms and work sites, etc are needed. Get an internship e.g. at Woh Hup and a mentor.
Actually I was just going to comment that you should pick an industry with less likelyhood of going south and work your brains out.
Even things like welding can pay big bucks potentially.
Just want to provide a different perspective. In most European countries, legal immigration is usually way tougher than illegal immigration.
ReplyDeleteThis means is that if you try to get into the country through legal routes, it can be quite difficult. For the UK there's the points system. On the other hand, if you get into the country illegally, the authorities are typically much softer on you than in countries like Singapore (where you might be caned). The British don't even have an IC card system due to their irrational fear of having a Big Brother system!
But this also means that you are stuck with low wage jobs and fear of getting deported. However due to human rights issues, after staying in the UK for several years (without getting deported) you can apply for indefinite leave to remain and a few years after that, British citizenship.
Of course, I'm not advising anyone to break the law and to try to illegally stay in another country. Just like to correct the impression that it is impossible for a lowly skilled person to work in another country.
Oh dear Joe, you may be simply making a point but I have to warn you that AD is young, impressionable, immature and not sensible when it comes to making decisions: he is so lazy when it comes to doing his research and is constantly looking for shortcuts instead of viable paths.
DeleteI know you are NOT advising him to take this path but I must stress that it is a very, very bad idea.
You need to hide yourself in the UK as an illegal immigrant for at least 20 years before you are entitled to emerge from the shadows, declare yourself to the authorities and still face a long agaonizing wait to see if they will grant you citizenship as an illegal immigrant who has stayed in the country (under the radar) for 20 years. https://www.freemovement.org.uk/new-rules-on-long-residence/
I repeat: 20 years. That's an incredibly long time. In that 20 years, you have to hide in the shadows, avoid any contact with the police - you cannot even go into a hospital when you become very ill because they may check your background details. The moment you come into contact with the authorities, you will be deported.
Under those circumstances, it's not a question of taking low-wage jobs, but you can only work in the black market - you will be paid way below minimum wage and if the boss denies you payment, bullies you, harasses you, heck, if he decides you beat you up and rape you - then there's absolutely nothing you can do because you are an illegal immigrant. If you get raped repeatedly (yes I am deliberately painting a gruesome picture for you), then the moment you seek justice by reporting the rapes, you will be deported. That's how grim life is for illegal immigrants who are constantly exploited by those who know just how vulnerable they are.
You are wrong to claim that it is 'several years' - the correct figure is 20 years. That's 20 years of your life where you cannot get an education or a proper job. AD is in his most productive time of his life when he should be improving himself by studying or working in a job that he likes - not wasting 20 years of his life by hiding in the shadows of British society doing awful, backbreaking work in the black market.
Whilst it is a route that is possible to take, the grim, nasty, harsh reality of it is that when most people consider 20 years of such harsh suffering, they usually say, "no way, that's insane!" and then they choose not to come to the UK as an illegal immigrant.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/new-rules-on-long-residence/
Actually, I believe 20 years of illegal residence only qualifies the person for a 30 months discretionary leave to remain. And only if they feel the illegal is not suitable to be sent back (eg no family back home). It'll be another few more applications for discretionary leave before the person qualifies for indefinite leave to remain.
ReplyDeleteSo it's probably closer to 30 years or so before he can qualify for citizenship.
In the meantime, this is probably what living in the UK as an illegal is like: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-17183171
Makes the legal route sound a lot more appealing by comparison.
Very good point. Thanks for pointing that out. At the end of that 30 months, they'll look at your country of origin and the moment they see that you're from Singapore - a country that is not at all, boom you're deported. I get the feeling that Joe Cheng was arguing an academic point at best, but the reality of life as an illegal immigrant (as highlighted in your BBC news article, thanks for that link) is really so grim that so many choose voluntary repatriation over being constantly exploited by those happy to exploit the vulnerability of those illegal migrants desperate to stay under the radar.
DeleteSome of the illegal migrants in that story were from countries like India - where life for the poor there can be pretty grim. But if you were to compare life in the UK as an illegal immigrant vs life in Singapore as a citizen, aiyoh, definitely the latter is far better.
This is why I am glad we have talked about it. It's not a question of a route being open to lowly skilled migrants - but it is such a harsh route that most migrants will say no to, unless they are fleeing some quite terrible war zone.
Oh, dear! Wrong thing to mention to AD. He may just be rash, stupid, and lazy enough to be an illegal alien. It is not that easy to remain as an illegal for that long a period. How will an alien get a driver's license,for example?
ReplyDeleteYou are just touching the tip of the iceberg with that. He can't go to a hospital if he falls sick, because they would ask for ID.
DeleteHe can't go to the police if he gets beaten up, raped and denied payment by his employers, because they would ask for ID.
He can only be exploited to breaking point. It's such a grim existence that life in Singapore is far better in comparison.
I am thinking of all the basic business of everyday life made impossible by being illegal. These include driving, banking, registering your kids at a school (you need to show immigration papers or citizenship for that), and most importantly, access to health care. Without health insurance, AD has to make sure he never falls sick in the 20 or 30 years he is an illegal alien. Good luck with that. Do you know how much a visit to the doctor or dentist costs? How will he pay for these bills if he is making less than minimum wage?
DeleteOverall a stupid idea. Don't even think of it, AD!
DeleteHi LIFT, may I know if you know any friends working as a nurse? Perhaps, there could be a comparison between nursing in Singapore and UK? This could help AD understand what being a nurse would entail, as well as correct the common misconceptions about nursing.
ReplyDeleteSorry Yuko, I don't know any nurses - but I am good friends with an X-ray technician and plan to do a piece with him soon.
DeleteWhy not just stay here, study law or medicine? My doctor and lawyer friends are doing very well. If not, go into teaching. Teacher friends are doing well too. don't follow blindly and do whatever is recommended in mainstream media. Some people I know regretted these choices.
ReplyDeletewww.glassdoor.com
Search all organisations and jobs, find a lucrative path to take and the courses required to get there, earn enough and build a career that allows you into a country of choice. Make sure you have a backup plan as immigration rules change all the time. If you are rich enough many countries will welcome you with open arms. The alternative is to take up jobs that no one else really wants to do, which is rare. If you have real talent in something that is in demand overseas, focus on that and work towards getting out. Otherwise consider career paths that are generally more lucrative here to safeguard your interests. In Singapore you need an obscene amount of money to retire or age without much worries.
I have to say, Blur Sotong Ball has a good point. At the end of the day, regardless of whether you live in Singapore, the UK, the US, China or wherever, the most important factor that ensures that you have a good quality of life is your wealth. If you're rich, it doesn't matter what country you live in: you will be able to enjoy a pretty good life.
DeleteToday when I was on a bus, I heard these two women arguing about someone who owed one of them £30 (like S$60) and she was screaming bloody murder about it and I thought, it's just £30 - but she was speaking about it as if it was £30,000. But of course, she is probably desperately poor and £30 is a lot of money to her. And she's white and English, but life is probably pretty darn grim for her in England as she is poor. The country she lives in, her nationality doesn't change the fact that she cannot afford the nice things in life.
It's all about money at the end of the day.
@Seba.Sennin5 January 2016 at 16:35,
ReplyDeleteIf you stayed in Oz for 12 years, you should still be able to score enough points in the new system to qualify for a PR. (Though you may have to tough it out in the regional areas for max points.)
The Oz govt did not do 'migrant cull'. They usually don't treat ppl as cattle. (Unless you are a illegal boat person) Look for a good migration agent. Explore the options. You mentioned you're back in Sing for the past 3yrs, act quick before the time limit on max points runs out.
As for AD dreaming of working in the mines without any qualifications and earning big bucks, I have some views. You made the comment on 04 Jan 2016. Have your looked at the prices for commodities lately? BHP just wrote down their holding by 7.2 billion USD. Those same ppl mentioned in the news reports as earning big bucks without even a secondary education? They were all retrenched. Look at the property market in the mining towns. Houses that were bought for 1.1M to 1.5M can be yours for abt 450k now. Tells you a lot about the state the mining industry is in now.
Moreover, even during the good times, mining was not as easy to get into as many ppl were led to believe. Without any mining connections, (prior experience, skills, knowing the boss of the mining firm) it was practically impossible to break into.
You're lucky Alex has even bothered to knock some sense into you. Medical and medical related field are in short supply everywhere in the world. In fact, some time back, the NHS went to Sing to recruit Sing nurses into their hospitals.
If you still have the attitude that there is an easy life anywhere and an easy way out, I strongly advise you to stay put in Sing. You will whittle and die overseas.
Well said E. You're absolutely right. The thing is that AD has disappeared off this thread, so I am just hoping that your useful advice will be appreciated by others looking for information on this topic.
DeleteI haven't disappeared.
ReplyDeleteA little update: I have now accepted that I am stuck in Singapore and will finish my diploma as I am still enrolled in the Computer Engineering course, however I have applied for a business course in Fund management and administration in Nanyang Polytechnic via DAE (my L1R4 is 16, and I barely am able to enter this course)
, and I could also transfer courses within SP.
All my family members and relatives are pushing me to go back to school and keep my attendance in check before I get "kicked out" from the school, with the grand idea being to just "get this diploma" as a certification, because "what diploma it is doesn't matter, it is a diploma and it is a stepping stone" and therefore they are pushing me to not waste the 1 year I have spent in this course and finish it.
Hi AD, Good to hear from you. I am rushing out to a meeting now but will offer you my thoughts on the "business course in fund management and administration in NP" - I have worked in the fund management industry for a long time and will offer you honest feedback about how good the course is. But that will have to wait for a few hours for now.
DeletePS. Be patient with your family - they do care about you at the end of the day, never forget that.
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DeleteHahahaha, Nil sine labore. Can I just make a point please?
DeleteI was a vastly different person back in VJC compared today. Whilst I like the person I have become, I am sometimes a bit embarrassed by the immature crap I did back in VJC as a teenager. But come on, I was 17, 18 years old. I'm much, much older now.
Then I have old friends who have tracked me down via Facebook and I'm now in the UK, they're in Singapore and I'm like, so nervous about accepting their friend request because I just want them to know that I am a different, more mature person now and I worry that they still remember me as this immature 17 year old kid.
In any case, AD is that kid I was, that we all were once upon a time. Give him a chance. He will grow up one day too, like the rest of us. Let's not be too harsh.
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DeleteThanks Neoplasm. I guess we have all changed a lot as we have made that step out of student life into the big bad working world as adults.
DeleteHey AD, I had a look at http://www.nyp.edu.sg/sbm/full-time-courses/fund-management-n-administration and at first I just rolled my eyes and said, "yeah right". But by the time I actually got to the last part about the opportunities for the graduate, I was rolling on the floor with laughter. Like seriously, it was really over the top.
DeleteLook, I will write a piece for you on entering the fund management industry since I did work many years in that industry before having left it for good last year. I'm not saying that graduates from that course will never be able to make a career in that industry - but if they think that they can just waltz into Credit Suisse Asset Management after having done that diploma, they're having a laugh. They may be able to get into some small local company's back office department and shovel shit for a few years before someone decides to promote them and give them a chance - but whoever wrote that course prospectus is clearly someone sitting in their corporate communications department who has a very good command of English but has never worked a day in the banking world. And s/he must be thinking, "okay, I must make this course sound really awesome". And fair enough, whilst it is a well-written prospectus, it simply doesn't relate to the cut-throat nature of the fund management industry. It couldn't be further from reality. Sorry, nothing against the lovely people from the corporate comms dept at NYP, I am sure they are all wonderful people - but that prospectus had me rolling on the floor with laughter.
The prospectus should read: this course will give you some idea of the kind of crap to expect in this industry and if you are still not put off the industry after having survived this 3 year ordeal, then fine, go to a good university and get a proper degree so you can actually enter the working world with a degree and not a diploma and after you graduate with that degree, then you can try to find a job in the fund management industry. Oh wait, better still, just skip spending 3 years at NYP altogether and go on to get a good degree from a top university, then apply for a job in that industry because employers would much rather higher someone of high calibre from a top university, then a diploma holder who has done this course. After all, your future employer will teach you practically everything you need to know on the job and for the right quality candidate, they are willing to invest the time and effort to train you up. So in essence, I don't see why anyone would bother with this course.
AD, you were warned. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/the-fund-management-administration.html For you AD on that course at NYP you were thinking of.
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ReplyDeleteThere are jobs in finance which you can get into without a relevant degree (or by that token, without a degree at all) but what I am so peeved about is this Singapore concept that if you do this diploma/degree than you can get a job in this sector - it does NOT work like that in the real world, especially in the fund management industry. I will write a proper post on it later. But yes, people like Goldman Sachs are very elitist and how can I say this delicately: they like Oxford and Cambridge graduates, NYP is considered garbage in their eyes. And this is the censored version of what I had originally thought of.
DeleteAs for working in low-level bank counter type jobs, Neoplasm, AD wants to migrate to the west - he needs a highly skilled job to qualify him as a skilled migrant - not a low level job that does not meet the requirements.
And then there is this:
Deletehttp://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/01/uk-britain-migrants-residency-minimum-salary/424779/
So UK is starting to raise the bar such that those currently working there might still end up getting kicked out.
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DeleteHi Neoplasm,
DeletePlease wait for my next big post - I will be talking about that course at NYP and working in the fund management industry. I think you need to consider the point that the degree gets you past the gatekeeper in the first instance, for every good job advertised in the industry, there will be so many quality applicants with good degrees from top universities - how is a diploma holder going to fare against that kind of competition?
I do know a handful of people who have either entered finance without a degree or with a degree from a really crap university. But they all managed to do it through sales - sales is a backdoor into finance because you get to prove yourself by selling. You spend a lot of time memorizing product knowledge and then they relied on their soft skills to do the selling process. Once they have proved themselves, then they managed to move on to other areas of finance - but whilst sales is an entry point, it is probably the hardest area to work in because you've gotta be soooo good with people.
As for your situation to work in the UK, you need to hit £35k within 5 years of starting work here - which as a doctor is easily achieved, as you will have yearly increments. And £1,000 will be paid by the employer, not you - hence that is meant to DISCOURAGE employers from using non-EU nationals who need work permits. Cos many who really want to work in the UK would just cough up the £1k without a moment's hesitation.
Hi, LIFT. Not sure if you remember my comment since you have tons of readers (I hated school and had extremely irregular attendance), but I avoided replying you until I actually started going to school on a (somewhat) regular basis. Thank you for your advice and I really enjoyed reading this post as well! I do relate to AD except I believe I'm not as delusional (or maybe I'm delusional enough to believe so). I have depression, eating disorders, slight anxiety and (suspected) ADD. I suggest you make an appointment with IMH. No joke, I go there for appointments. My relationship with my family is also very bad. They are extremely abusive (physically, verbally, emotional and sexually). I do hide the sexual abuse from my psychologists since I don't want more unnecessary drama. They've been advising me to go for family therapy which I am against, because I understand that I do not want be close to my family. To me, that is something extremely difficult and uncomfortable, considering the past experiences I had. I don't think it's worth the effort and I'm not too into it, so I just give up on the idea of family therapy :D I understand how you feel about your family. But I've come to accept that I'll never have the kind of "family bond" portrayed in dramas neither will I ever feel close to them. I do not love my family (apart from my grandmother who can't even recognize me right now), but neither do I hate them. I believe their abusive nature has allowed me to grow and developed more than (those of) my peers who has not undergone such experiences. Okay, sorry, I seem to have typed too much but what I'm trying to say is that you seem to be unable to decide on something. (And my mother is currently yelling at me again so I can't think straight or type properly) I thought about my situation a lot, before coming to a conclusion that I do not want to be close to my family and I'm pretty certain I'll not regret my decision. If anything, I'll take responsibility for it. However, I also know that I do not wish to get my parents into trouble w all those sexual abuse claims and whatnots so I only VERY vaguely told my psychologists about how they emotionally abused me (ignored my existence for days, threw my belongings, randomly start a monologue about how useless and how much of a waste of resources "a certain person" is) and verbally abused me (constantly said I wasn't good enough (in terms of low weight) even when my BMI was 13-14). I've decided that though now they're still abusive (threatened to call the police and my father stopped touching me inappropriately like 97.1% of the time), I just want to avoid it and get pass the years until I am able to gain independence. I don't hate them, neither do I love them (tho I do feel guilty at times for not "loving" my family), I am a neutral. I think you shouldn't victimize yourself too much. I don't go around telling my schoolmates my problems. If anything, I sit down and analyze it before thinking of how to solve the problems. Sometimes (rarely) I consult people who do not know me in real life aka LIFT
ReplyDeleteHi Zhiyi, allow me to make a few points in reflection of your situation. Rest assured I am a lot more enlightened and well-informed than some of the people you have been talking to!
DeleteI've been around for a long time (turning 40 v soon) and have observed a lot of people and actually, the number of people who have really close ties with their family are in the minority. By the same token, the number of people who have really poor relationships with their families is also quite small. The vast majority of people simply drift into the state whereby they become adults and drift apart from their families in their 20s. They get a job, they have colleagues, they have boyfriends/girlfriends/lovers/spouses etc. You then socialize a lot more with people you have in common with through your interests, your profession and your romantic relationships then take precedent. Especially in the West, a lot of young adults move away from their parents' home - thus increasing the distance between them and their parents (both physically and metaphorically) and that's just normal. It's about becoming an adult, discovering who you are, who you wanna be, what makes you happy, what makes you wanna wake up in the morning and work hard. And part of that process means letting go of your family in a way that is no longer about seeking the approval or permission or blessing of your parents in anyway, but putting your own opinion before theirs. You will be amazed how many young people fuck up their lives because they just don't have the confidence to follow their hearts and listen to themselves, or trust themselves to do the research, get the info they need to make the informed decisions about what to do with their adult lives! I just wrote my latest article for a young woman whose dad is giving her fucking awful advice - like he is wrong on so many levels, he is a fucking idiot trying to be helpful by giving his daughter really, really SHIT advice and the poor girl doesn't have the self-confidence to tell her father that she is 21 and an adult and knows what she is doing. She knows her father is wrong, but doesn't have the courage to defy him. Talk about a fucked up situation.
If my memory serves me right, you're still young - you're like 16 right? You've quite reached that point in your life yet when you turn into an adult and stand on your own two feet: it is an important mindset, a part of growing up and I don't expect 16 year olds to be that mature yet, but that's what you have to do as you are fast approaching 18. You're gonna have to let go of your family sooner or later, I don't mean stop talking to them - but learn to redefine your relationship with your parents as adult-to-adult, rather than this current parent-child mode.
You see, we get to choose our friends, but we don't get to choose our family members. We choose to befriend people we like, we have shared interests with - but with family members, well we may just realize that we have nothing in common with them and there's little one can do to change that situation. Trying to force people with nothing in common to get along usually leads to very poor results and that's just life. What we do as adults is simply then focus our energies on people whom we do have much more in common with and create our new 'families' whom we can have more meaningful relationships with.
Let me know what you think of what I wrote Zhiyi. Be well. Be strong.
Like you, I've considered suicide numerous times. But the main reason why I haven't done so is because it seems pretty pointless and cowardly. Also, I'm kind of curious how my life will turn out in the next few years and I like to solve problems, including my own life problems. You seem rather lost to me. I'm younger than you, barely 16 so I may not seem too qualified to give you advices but I think you should seriously contemplate suicide. I'm not talking about how you mention wanting to die and all. What I mean is to seriously contemplate suicide. You'll find the reasons to die and the reasons to continue living, therefore indirectly finding the reason to carry on living and life may have a little more meaning. Whenever I'm confused and depressed, or I did something stupid such as binging, starving or cutting myself, I take a while to calm myself down. Then I take out pieces of paper and write down what I want and what I do not want, what I need to do to achieve certain goals. Sometimes you may be in self denial and too overwhelmed with emotions to think straight. Don't let your emotions control you. Emotions, to me, are just informations to take not of.
ReplyDeleteZhiyi, let me tell you about suicide - it is pointless for one simple reason: it will not achieve the one thing you want. I can tell you want your parents to feel sorry for the way they have treated you, you want people to turn around and say "wah those parents are so bad they have driven their son to suicide etc". But you know what? Your parents will probably just blame you for being a bad son for being a coward and blame YOU rather than themselves. And given what Singaporean society is like, I know that 99% of them will side with your parents rather than you. So as a means to spite your parents, well, that's pretty much useless. Even an attempt at suicide would probably achieve the same thing - ie. everyone will just blame you and no one will blame your parents.
DeleteWhen an option is so bad and does not offer the result you want, then the rational thing to do is to take the better option: become an adult, stand on your own two feet, move away from your parents and redefine your relationship with the world on your terms.
I used to think like you when I was a very unhappy teenager, trapped in Singapore. But as an adult who has grown up and has redefined my relationship with the world, I am very happy indeed. I am able to say fuck this and fuck that to whatever I don't like and pursue the things that make me happy, successful and satisfied. It is a far cry from when I was a teenager, when everything depended on the approval of my parents, my teachers, someone else, where I simply couldn't make any decisions for myself without getting permission.
Becoming an adult will set you free and make you happy at the end of the day.
Gosh, I just remembered an incident which made me depressed as a 16 year old. I wanted to get a new pair of shoes which my parents said no to, as it was too expensive for a 16 year old. It made me feel so angry, like it was not the pair of shoes per se (I can't even recall what they looked like) but it was more the feeling that I was not worthy of that pair of shoes, that this pair of shoes were just too good for me, that I'm not worth it. It's not the shoes that bothered me, but it was just the frustration that I had no control over that decision - my parents held the purse strings and said no, get a cheaper pair of shoes.
DeleteAs an adult today, I get to do whatever the hell I want. I buy clothes that I fancy on a whim, I book a flight and go on an exotic location because I've read about it on Facebook. I read a review in a newspaper about a new restaurant and think ooh let's try that and just go. I do what the fuck I want, when the fuck I want, with whom the fuck I want. That's what being adult is all about. (Oh the fact that I am rich does make it easier to do all those things, but that will come with time my friend.) I am so glad I am no longer the 16 year old who was told that those pair of Nike trainers were too good for me. Being a teenager sucks, I hope you realize that and you have your adulthood to look forward to.
Listen, us adults also have shitloads of responsibilities to do as well and I have a meeting coming up to dash to. I hope I've given you enough food for thought for now.
Exactly. I can related to the second comment a lot!
DeleteAs for the first comment, yes. several months ago, I did realize that all I wanted was perhaps for my parents to feel sorry for what they've done. I just want them to apologize and hopefully that'll get rid of the heavy burden in my heart. But yeah recently it occured to me that that's never happening. They are pretty old fashioned and about ten years older than most of my friends' parents. My father still lives with the mindset that "oh you're my daughter I had u so why can't I touch u or deal w u the way I want to"
Zhiyi, if your father is really touching you inappropriately, then you need to do something about the situation. Tell a teacher at school, go to the police if you must. I cannot condone you keeping quiet about it.
DeleteAs for the second comment, I don't think it was about the shoes per se (I can't even recall what they looked like), I remember shrugging and saying, "oh I didn't really like that colour that much". But it was just the frustration of having no control over the outcome of the situation - at 16, I was ready to make my own decisions but everything was controlled by my parents and I could not wait to grow up and become an adult. When I first left Singapore to study in France, boy the liberation was incredible. My sister bitched about me not being able to survive on my own (cooking for myself, doing my own laundry etc), but I totally rose to the occasion and never looked back. I'm afraid you're at least 2 years away from that kind of liberation - but it will come in due course if you play your cards right now. Think long term, think about what you want out of life in the next ten years. Life may suck now but things will improve so much as an adult. Trust me, I have been there.
I bit my tongue when I read about your comment about killing yourself: trust me, once you are away from your parents, once you have established yourself as an independent adult - life will be so fucking good you'll realize that you're crazy to have ever contemplated suicide. Joy, life has been incredibly good to me in the UK - I have a fulfilling career, I am so fucking rich, I have a career, I am moving house this weekend and I have so many friends willing to drop everything and help me move - what more can I ask for? I am grateful and I count my blessings. This was a far cry from when I was 16 and so miserable in Singapore.
I don't any unnecessary drama as my life has been filled with them since young. For now, I just want to do what I need to do while maintaining my sanity, and get out of this hellhole. Currently, I'm not as close to my parents (physically) as we try to keep a distance from each other since my mum finds me a burden and my dad believes me to be insane. Besides, I have no faith in the education system, much less the teachers. I can't stand how a rather abusive teacher (said my classmate was "fucking annoying", repeatedly made racist remarks, ostracize certain student(s) etc.) can be made form teacher in half a year and promoted to DLC (in charge of discipline) within a year. Same goes for other teachers who God knows how, got promoted in less than a year despite being incompetent and having had complaints of sexual harassment. I feel very unsafe in school and after months of trying to speak to the counsellor, other teachers and even the principal, I just gave up. I'm guessing all I can do right now is to try to lessen my anxiety and somehow survive school.
Delete2 years seem like a long time but in comparison to the 70 years (I'm assuming the average of our life expectancy will increase and that I won't get into any accidents) ahead of me, I guess it does seem pretty worthwhile :D
I try not to die yet, since I do want to create my own future and learn more.
I don't know if 2 years is such a long time - I'm turning 40 this year and I still don't know how I got to be so freaking old. Time seems to fly when you keep as busy as I do. I am always looking at the time thinking, aaargh shit I'm gonna be late, rush rush rush. Perhaps that's the key to help deal with your situation, keep yourself v busy and time will fly.
Delete"Oh, I'm sad today and I want to cut."
ReplyDelete"Hm... Why?"
"My brother called me a fat pig and I hate school."
"Why do you hate school? It's boring and tiring."
"But you know you have no choice"
"But I really hate school. I feel like I'm losing my sanity."
HAHAHAHA okay I'm not sure if this makes sense but this is an example of the little conversations I have in my head to clear my thoughts and navigate my way through the mess of emotions.
When it gets a bit more complicated, I take out a paper and do the method I mentioned above :D
Reasons why I hate school:
Risks of not going to school:
Pros and cons of blah blah
Does the pros outweigh the cons blah
Eventually, I just choose the most logical (doesn't necessarily means the least risk, your mental health is equally important. Don't let society's definition of success fuck you up. Your definition is more important.) option (to me) and the problem is less daunting :D I know life is pretty complicated, especially with the addition of emotions, which, in my opinion, are so fucking vague it's hard to clearly define and "solve" then. But to be efficient, effective and stoping being in the rut, sometimes you have to try to simplify things a bit (but not too much, you're not an idiot).
Zhiyi - I implore you to see the bigger picture. What you need to do right now is to be able to hit the accelerator button and speed your way into adulthood. Being able to function as an independent adult is what is going to make you happy in the long run - you want to feel in control, define the relationships with the people around you, make your own choices about your place in society etc. What is making you really unhappy at the moment is the way you have a bad relationship with your family and your school - yeah I can see that, but you need to think about what you can do to help yourself. Quitting school now is simply cutting off your thumb to spite your hand - it is a stupid decision that will harm yourself even more; spite is never a good motivation in life and hating school I'm afraid is not a good enough reason to quit school. The fact the Singaporean education system has let you down really isn't a good enough reason for you to quit school - because if you quit school now, you would be trapped in a situation whereby you're financially dependent on the very people you are seeking to distance yourself from (your parents) because without completing your formal education, you will not be able to earn a living in a place like Singapore and that will trap you in a state of constantly moving from one very lowly paid job to another - effectively trapping you as a 'child' within your family long after your peers have become adults able to stand on their own two feet in their 20s.
DeleteI'm sorry if this makes me sound harsh, but your problem is that you are giving too much credence to your feelings and not enough consideration for your future. I'm sorry to have to break this to you - but your future needs to take priority over your feelings and given what you have explained to me about the way things are with your family, you really need to do what is right for you. If you refuse to take care of yourself, then no one will - - your family isn't going to help - who's gonna help you? the government? Yeah right.
I know life sucks right now, but allowing self-pity and spite to get in your way of becoming an adult, achieving independence, liberty and happiness is just counterproductive. Here's an important lesson I learnt in NS: when you don't have a 'best friend' or loving parent looking out for your interests and taking care of you, then sometimes you have to choose to be your own best friend and take care of yourself.
Let me know what you think Zhiyi.
Yes. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply! I do realize I need my parents as financial support. I do feel pragmatic and pretty heartless thinking this way but I've mostly just viewed them as financial support all these while.
DeleteIt feels better when others comfort me but that's only short term. Ultimately, I'd prefer it if the content is useful (and harsh), it'd benefit me better.
I understand what u mean. Every time i sit down and logically think things thru, I do realize what needs to be done. I used to pride myself on being able to get over things and solve problems (life situations) relatively quickly and not dwell on it like most of my friends. However, in recent years, I feel like my emotions have affected this. It's like I've made plans and am aware of what to do and so I begin but somewhere along the road, something happens (usually related to my current problems) and it just affects me greatly. I get so emotionally distraught. I used to like unexpected challenges. I like the challenge and being able to learn from them. However, in recent years, those just seem to be weighing me down instead. After typing these, I think I've gained a bit of an insight. Perhaps it's because I'm too emotionally invested, especially when the recent problems seem to always be my weakness. I was betrayed by a good friend. Found out my ex boyfriend lied to me for a long time. I was very upset but the distraught only lasted for a few hours/one night. I took the time to be sad and the very next day, asses what needs to be done to get over it ASAP and I just went ahead to do it. I can thoroughly get over it in a day. However, it seems to me that as long as it is related to my eating disorders, family and school, it's very hard to truly forget it. I always end up suppressing it and one day, it just all comes back. When it comes back, I'll be in an emotional breakdown for several days before I'm suddenly "okay" and back to my typical apathetic and "unfeeling" state. When I'm in one of those emo phases, I can't sleep or eat well. I get nightmares, night terrors, hallucinations every night consistently for more than week. I either binge, starve or eat "abnormally". Just like a walking corpse. Then one day, after a few trials and errors, I manage to end it. The cycle just repeats over and over again. It's rly hindering my progress/growth or whatever. I'm just afraid it may ruin any major exams. I don't feel like I'm expressing myself too coherently right now and I currently feel like shit. Sorry for being so whiny and always disturbing u!!
Zhiyi, sorry it took me over a day to get to this. Allow me to respond. When I was younger, esp around 16, I did all kind of things to spite my parents to try to get them to notice me but I didn't know how to do it the right way. I was very passive-aggressive, I would provoke them, I would argue, I would self-harm, I would deliberately disappear from the house etc. The list is long but it was full of stupid shit that I did back then - I used to try to provoke my father by refusing to speak Mandarin (he's a retired Chinese teacher you see) and I thought I could bring shame to him by showing that the Chinese teacher's son can't speak Chinese. But guess what? The joke was on me because he didn't really care either way whether or not I spoke Chinese.
DeleteSometime in my 30s, I finally realized that I was a big fool to try to provoke my parents as nothing I did really ever had the desired effect. I was just wasting my time and energy doing something that would never ever achieve what I wanted and that I would have been far better off simply letting go and moving on, focusing on the people in my life who did care about me. You can't do crazy shit and expect your parents to feel sorry for you and care - at least, please, for crying out aloud, just find yourself some very good friends and turn to them for emotional support.
Don't have the habit of proofreading things in general so I hope it isn't too messy or long. And I'm extremely sorry for any unnecessarily long texts! Sorry if my writing is too causal D:
ReplyDeleteThis seems to be ages ago, sorry for adding a comment, ops.
Wait, another thought came to my mind. LIFT, may I know what coping methods you have when you face troubles in life? I'm curious and I've been using mine since forever. AD seems to lack one, and I think it's very important, in order to move on.
Also, you mentioned something about avoiding pain and seeking pleasure in another article. That's so true!! I've believed in that ever since I entered secondary school. One day, I just thought of that and it just seems like (almost) everything can be applied to that! To me, that almost seems like "rule" most people follow, whether consciously or not.
Sorry for such a long comment. I suddenly thought of a few things and I just rambled on and on.
Ops, typed too much and had to separate the comments.
Wait, LIFT mentioned about your laziness. And I'm extremely lazy too. My room's a pig sty and I rarely do my homework. I procrastinate to no end, but it's somewhat of a habit of mine to not be (too) lazy when learning/finding out about something. It's better to be ignorant than learn the wrong stuff. My greatest fear is learning the wrong things. I just can't stand it. Imagine the risks of being ignorant and making the wrong decisions... Which reminds me of the fact that my English teacher repeatedly told us to "brainstorm individually". It seems to me that brainstorm is used for group discussions? He's more educated to me, but I don't want to risk learning the wrong information. LIFT, if I'm not wrong, "brainstorm individually" is wrong, isn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm sorry... there are like 4 comments.