Part 4: A local journalist's POV on the Timetric vs J. Lee case

Given the kind of traffic I have had to my blog over the last 48 hours, you guys really seem to be interested in this case, so I will write a part 4 about the Timetric vs J. Lee case. I felt that I have really said everything I had to say on the issue, part 1 covered the facts of the case and part 2 covered the way it was discussed on social media. Part 3 featured Amit Patel's side of the story and now in part 4, I will be interviewing a local journalist who will giving us his reaction to the story. Please note that this interview took place about 36 hours ago so this was before I received Amit's statement on his side of the story and before the thread on EDMW got closed suddenly (apparently upon the wishes of Jerard Lee himself).

Limpeh: Thanks for doing this interview.

Journalist: Sure, anything for an old friend - but may I make this clear before we begin, I am doing this interview on the basis that you do not use my real name. I do not want to get into trouble with MediaCorp over this as I am not speaking on their behalf of this issue, I am speaking as a private individual and you know how they control all the news that allow to be reported. So I could get into a lot of trouble for speaking to you in the capacity of a MediaCorp employee - though I am happy to share with you my ideas and views on the issue.

Limpeh: Can you at least tell my readers what you do?

Journalist: Let's say I work as a journalist for MediaCorp... I used to work for SPH (Singapore Press Holdings) for one of the local papers before crossing over to MediaCorp - let's leave it at that, okay?

Limpeh: Of course. To begin with, do you know about this story at all? About Jerard Lee...

Journalist: Oh yes, we do. It was brought to our attention and we do scan the forums sometimes when looking for interesting local human interest stories and sure, we've taken a look at it, read the letter that TRS printed.

Limpeh: Clearly you've not written anything about it. Why did you not report on the case?

My journalist friend didn't think this was newsworthy.

Journalist: It is a silly story - the guy is making mountains out of molehills. Come to us when something criminal has happened, when the police are ready to charge your employers with a crime. Calling someone a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, that's the kind of stupid shit that happens in the primary school. It is a non-issue, it is not a crime. It's so bloody stupid. No journalist would touch it, you would risk the wrath of your editor if you dared to submit such a story - it would NEVER get past the editor and it would put your job and reputation of a journalist at stake.

As a journalist, we want to write about big news, such as a major terrorist attack like the Boston Marathon bombings or cover a major event like the local re-election following Michael Palmer's resignation. It is an ego thing for journalists - we want to be the one who gets the scoop for some breaking story and be the first to report on this exciting news. Something that has been talked about for days on the internet - that's not breaking news. Give me an angle I can write about, that I can bring to my editor with pride. You think this guy had a tough boss - us journalists at MediaCorp, do you know how tough our editors are? We have tough bosses here too at MediaCorp too. We need some good sound bites or something visual that will look stunning on screen for the news - this was simply not newsworthy.

Limpeh: There have been other cases in Singapore which did involve office politics and these were extensively reported in the local media - such as the Ng Boon Gay case which was reported far and wide.

Journalist: Oh yes, that was a juicy story. Blow jobs for contracts, corruption, sexy texts - that story had everything a journalist could dream of. Sleaze, money, corruption, politics, chio bu (beautiful women) - but most of all, it was a court case that involved a former director of the Central Narcotics Bureau. He is a big shot...

Limpeh: A big shot?

Journalist: Well, a high ranking civil servant at least. Yes he got acquitted in the end, but at least charges were brought against him and he did have the indignity of having all the details of the case reported in the press and having to do the walk of shame outside the courthouse where waiting photographers were snapping away like the paparazzi. Sex sells and there's also the NUS sex for grades scandal. Oh yeah, big story. The fact is these cases were reported to the police, charges were brought against the accused and they went to court. If the Timetric case does go to court, then perhaps we may become interested at that stage. Right now, it is a private dispute between a disgruntle ex-employee and his ex-employers - it is not news worthy. There are far more interesting things happening in Singapore!

You have to look at it from our point of view - sure this Jerard Lee wants as much publicity as he wants to support his case, but you have to understand that my role as a journalist is very different from your role as a blogger - you can express an opinion on an issue, we tend not to when reporting on a news story. We're meant to simply report the facts and stay neutral. We cannot risk interfering in a private dispute as we could damage the reputation of Timetric and risk a law suit if we report on what is still a private dispute. From a legal point of view, that is clearly a no-go zone for us.

Limpeh: Wanbao went there. They reported it.

Journalist: Well that's Wanbao for you. They report all kind of shit - their readership has been dwindling over the years and have been limited to older Singaporeans. Most younger Singaporeans read the news in English, not Chinese because they have been educated in English. Those who do read Wanbao tend to be older Singaporean Chinese people - the PRCs tend to prefer to access news content direct from China via the internet and there are loads of Chinese TV stations from China and Taiwan for those who prefer to watch the news in Mandarin. Wanbao has become increasingly trashy over the years and whilst it is okay to write stories on trivial issues, I don't know what their editor was thinking in risking a court case by reporting on that story. But that's Wanbao for you, they don't have a good reputation and no one takes them seriously.

Limpeh: If that is indeed the case, then why haven't Timetric responded and sued Wanbao already?

What was the best way to respond to the Wanbao article?

Journalist: Good question - they could, but it could lead to the Streisand effect. The readership of Wanbao is relatively small and tends to be older Chinese Singaporeans - any overlap between the readership of the Wanbao and the users of Timetric products is highly... extremely unlikely given that retired Mandarin speaking uncles in the kopitiams of Singapore who read Wanbao are not the kind of people to buy a market intelligence report for several thousand dollars. If they just ignored it, it would go away. The uncles and Ah Peks in the kopitiams will not even remember how to spell Timetric "Tim ... Time simi hur? Gwa buay ki liao? Teenage mutant ninja turtle oo jiat pizza meh?"

Limpeh: This reminds me of the Demon-cratic case where Leslie Chew was arrested for his political satire cartoons and that led to many more people being interested in the cartoons that the government took offence to. Classic Streisand effect.

Journalist: Totally. So Wanbao got away with it, it wasn't worth Timetric's while to pursue that case if their priority was to protect their reputation and keep a lid on the story. This is hardly the only case of companies in Singapore treating their employees badly, think about the way the striking bus drivers were treated. Such stories do little to help Singapore's international business reputation - so the local media would be more likely to want to report on stories on successes, rather than dispute. You know what it is like lah - our hands are tied, to an extent...

Limpeh: You mean the press is controlled by the government who prefers to report good news.

Journalist: This is Singapore.

Limpeh: Let's talk about the Ministry of Manpower - MOM. Are you acquainted with them at all?

Journalist: I am as I have dealt with them when covering previous cases both in my role with MediaCorp and previously with (a local Singaporean newspaper).

Limpeh: What would be their stance on this case as I know Jerard Lee has made a formal complaint to them.

How would MOM view this case? 

Journalist: They can do little, they will probably do nothing. It boils down to the fact that he wasn't wrongfully terminated - he quit on his own accord. He made a tactical error there - it would've been easier for him to make a case against Timetric for wrongful dismissal than for him to try to prove that he was forced to quit. The company can then make a counter case to prove that he wasn't forced to quit and then it would be based on how strong each party makes their case. Sure this name-calling business is uncalled for and unprofessional to say the least, but there are other points like the laughing at the IC thing... that would just get laughed out of court if it ever came to it. And the over scrutiny of his work - again, that is an internal dispute, a HR matter that is not criminal per se. None of this is criminal - no crimes were committed and so unless the police are willing to bring a case against Timetric on the basis that this bullying had harmed Jerard Lee in such  and such a way, then it is very easy for the MOM to pass the buck to the police and wait for them to act.

Don't forget, the MOM is not a labour union - they perform a role that is quite different from a labour union that is there to protect the workers in a time of dispute. They handle a lot of the nitty gritty paperwork such as employment passes for foreigners, workplace health & safety, worker training records - they do a lot. So it is not a question of whether MOM is on the side of Singaporeans like Jerard Lee or whether they only support big businesses, it is a matter of understand what their role is and what they can legitimately do within that role. Say if an employer refuses to make CPF contributions or wrongfully withholds part of the employee's salary, then sure they can help as it is a clear cut case. But in Jerard Lee's case, I can't say for sure as it is far less straight forward. What would tantamount to a satisfactory settlement for Jerard Lee? Does he want money? Does he want revenge? What does he want?

Limpeh: Well what is the best case scenario for him?

What does Jerard want out of this? Money? Attention?

Journalist: I am not a legal expert, so I can't speculate - but I can tell you what I think will happen. As there have been no criminal wrong doing, the police won't make a case against Timetric and tell Jerard to resolve it directly with Timetric. Amit Patel was a bad manager, that is an internal dispute for the company to deal with - it is not criminal though so the police will not get involved. On that basis, the MOM's hands are tied if there isn't a criminal case, so they may go as far as to write to Timetric to tell them to look into the matter. Timetric will no doubt speak to their lawyers to find out what they are obliged to do and they will fulfil their obligation to look into the matter. Amit and Ruben will probably get something like a caution... an internal slap on the wrist, if you like and be told, "don't do this again please." Timetric will then write back to MOM and say, yup we've looked into it as requested, we've disciplined the two involved and we have taken steps to ensure that it won't happen again blah blah blah. The MOM will then write back to Jerard and say that this is what happened, this is the response we got. The ball will be then in Jerard's court to see if he wants to sue Timetric, but that's how much 'help' he will probably get from MOM.

Limpeh: In other words, precious little.

Journalist: I am merely speculating - but their hands are tied if there are no criminal charges that can be brought against Timetric. The MOM can't do that much - Jerard needs a good lawyer now.

Limpeh: How do you think Timetric would deal with Amit and Ruben as a result of this? Would they be sacked for dragging the company into such a scandal over their silly emails about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Journalist: This is a classic catch-22 situation. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the big boss of Timetric for this: even if you are angry with Amit and Ruben and want to sack them, getting rid of them at this stage would tantamount to admitting that what they did was so serious that it was worth sacking them for. That would give plenty of ammunition for Jerard Lee's lawyer to use in a court to sue them for compensation. So the big boss has to practice damage control for now - any kind of punishment of Amit and Ruben will have to be done in private, away from the gaze of the public and the media. Even if he summons those two into his office and shouts his head off at them, it will all have to be done in private. You and I will not get to know about the details, nobody will - and this is exactly what their lawyers will advice Timetric. Their priority right now is to protect their reputation and safeguard their company against a potential lawsuit - so any 'punishment' for Amit and Ruben will have to wait.

Limpeh: Aah... okay. So in going public like that, Jerard is forcing Timetric to take a defensive stance in not admitting any wrongdoing at all on their part.

Journalist: Exactly. I could sense that a lot of Jerard's reactions are very knee-jerk - like the way he mouths off on the forum, if it ever did come to a court case, Timetric's lawyers would have a field day collecting all this as evidence to present him as an incoherent, unreasonable person not fit to be an employee. Some of the things said on these forums are downright racist, targeting the fact that Amit is Indian. Even if he stopped participating in these forums today, enough damage has been done - Timetric's lawyers could for example, make a case that he is fuelling a racist and xenophobic debate online.

The arguments in the forums were childish, racist and xenophobic. 

Limpeh: I think Jerard has made some effort to declare that he isn't xenophobic or racist.

Journalist: Regardless, he is engaging with people who are and a case could be made that he is fuelling that debate as a protagonist and you know how the government feels about the issue of racism in Singapore. It is a taboo subject, don't even go there. Leslie Chew went there and got into big trouble.

Another tactical mistake on Jerard Lee's part is that he played one of his trump cards too early in the game. He went public with his story - bad move. That is a big bargaining chip in any case like that. Normally, the line one would use is this, "If you do not settle out of court, I will sue you and the story will go public and the damage done to your reputation will be worth far more than the amount I am asking for."

Limpeh: But he's already gone public.

Journalist. Exactly. Bad move. Really bad move. Now what is he going to threaten them with? Whether or not the media will be interested in a story like his is another story, but to hold back your trump card in a negotiation like that is vital to ensure that you hold your opponent hostage to that threat. In playing that trump card so early in the game, he has weakened his position considerably in the negotiation. Now Timetric know that journalists like me wouldn't touch such a story - they have less to worry about. Duh. I hope his lawyer has explained that to Jerard.

Jerard played his trump card way too early in the game.

Limpeh: From the way he is posting on the forums, I don't think he was thinking this through, he didn't really have a strategy to begin with and he was guided by his impulses. He does have a lawyer though...

Journalist: And if his lawyer is good, then the lawyer should help him pick up the pieces and consolidate his position, find areas to focus on to strengthen his case... Is there any dispute about money? Salary?

Limpeh: He did mention it in passing. Apparently he made a sale on the day he resigned but the commission was given to a colleague by Amit.

Journalist: Now you see, that is the kind of thing that the MOM could get their teeth into, if he can collect evidence to support that claim, then he can legitimately try to sue his former employers for that commission which was not paid out to him even though that was rightfully his.

Limpeh: Ironically, he seems far less fussed about that than the name-calling and the bullying.

Is Jerard not fussed about his commission payments? 

Journalist: Well, that's where he is being emotional. By focussing on something tangible like that commission payment, then you have a clear goal - win that small victory and you are in a better position negotiate everything else. Yes there was bullying of sorts but it wasn't criminal and it is difficult for him to try to make a case. Far worse things happen in Singapore everyday than laughing at someone's IC photo - it is not a crime to be mean to another person by laughing at them. There are no laws to define that as a crime. So there is no possibility of Amit or Ruben being punished for breaking the law - the only recourse Jerard has is to sue Timetric for not having safeguarded his mental well-being by protecting him against bullying in the workplace.

Limpeh: He seems to think that he can get Amit and Ruben punished.

Journalist: Impossible. Not under Singaporean law. At best, he can get Timetric very angry with Amit and Ruben for having caused so much trouble in the first place, that's all - but as I explained earlier, Timetric is in a catch-22 situation and they cannot punish Amit and Ruben until this case totally blows over.

Limpeh: But surely if Jerard can prove that he is mentally affected - that the bullying has resulted in his depression because of the way he was treated...

Is Jerard busy looking for a job now or is he too depressed to work?

Journalist: Again, the onus is on him to prove cause and effect in the court of law and that is challenging. If a court in Singapore ruled that calling someone a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle in the office is illegal, or that laughing at someone's photo is illegal because it somehow damaged Jerard Lee in the process, think of what kind of message that would send out. Employers would start panicking and censoring every kind of informal conversation that goes on in the work place out of fear that someone may say something offensive to another employee and the company will end up getting sued for millions. That simply won't happen. Singapore presents itself to the work as a business friendly environment with a well educated work force - in this context, such a case won't even come to court, not in the context of Singapore's business friendly environment. I don't see it happening, no.

If anything, Timetric's lawyers can easily prove that his depression is caused by him embarking on this mission to bring down his former employers and failing. That is effectively a self-inflicted wound - he could have walked away from Timetric, got himself a new job and be earning a lot of money now in another company. They could easily go to the forum and collect plenty of evidence to show that his "depression" is self-inflicted after he has left the company. It takes more than a doctor to give you an MC to sue a former employer in court for damages like that - it boils down to proving cause and effect to a judge. Who would want to give a depressed person a job, knowing that he admits to being too depressed to work online? Have you heard the saying, "success is the greatest form of revenge?"

Success is the greatest form of revenge. 

Limpeh: Totally. I remember I had this colleague about 10 years ago - she got treated like shit by the boss because she was a fresh graduate with no experience and eventually, she was sick and tired of being taken for granted and left. Today she is an MD of her own company and making so much money and I imagine what it would be like for her to run into her ex-boss and see the expression on his face when he realizes just how successful she has become today.

Journalist: Let's not forget who Jerard Lee is dealing with - Timetric. They are a huge MNC with very deep pockets to drag a case on and on through the courts, they don't have to win the case, they just have to bankrupt Jerard Lee with a lengthy legal case. The guy is unemployed with with a wife who is not working and a baby daughter to feed. That's what big companies do in cases like that - they don't need to win, they just need to drag it out until you run out of money to pay your lawyers. I have seen it done so many time over the years when an individual or a small company tries to sue a corporate giant - they just bury you with paperwork till you drown in lawyers' fees. No it is not fair but that is what happens when you take on a giant like an MNC in court and it is all completely legal for them to do this.

Limpeh: All these people who are supporting Jerard Lee on the forum, I wonder how many of them are willing to contribute even $50 towards his legal fees? Talk is cheap.

Go on, let's see any of you give Jerard $50.

Journalist: That is expected - most people of those forums prefer to be very anonymous, it is a strange kind of virtual community, unlike, say Facebook. And no, it's not for me.

Limpeh: Maybe some of them genuinely can help Jerard, but come on, do you want to be given a job out of sympathy, because you are so 可怜... so pitiful? That's kinda shameful. When I get a job, I want to be selected on the basis of merits, I want to know that I got selected because I am the best man for the job with the best skills for the job. Even if Jerard did get a job offer as a result of this case from a Singaporean who feels sorry for him - like, are you happy being a charity case? I pride myself in my ability to 吃苦 - I'm not sure that translates easily into English, but it means being able to bear hardships - to be able to put up with challenging conditions and not give up in the face of difficulty. I see that as a very positive trait that I am proud of and someone who quits because his boss is difficult... well, that's just the opposite of 吃苦 and I wouldn't give a job to someone who couldn't 吃苦. I do enough charity in my life, I don't need to feel sorry for Jerard, so I don't know what these Singaporeans are thinking!

Journalist: Don't be so hard on the people on the forum lah. I am sure the bulk of them mean well, I mean, they have no ill-intention - they are probably trying to help Jerard but I can imagine most of them will not be in a position to help him financially if he does face a huge legal bill. You've not lived properly in Singapore for a while... There appears to be more anti FT reports cos there are more immigrants here now. The dislike is for the influx of PRC blue collared workers who can't behave themselves and are rude and loud. Because of this, other foreigners get dragged through the mud - so by association, Amit and Ruben are feeling the brunt of this anti-FT anger. Had they been locals, you think the people on the forums will support Jerard's case?

Do these forums represent Singaporean society accurately? 

Singapore has never been xenophobic before this influx of PRCs so it is more an anti PRC sentiment that became anti FT in general. A lot of these Singaporeans are witnessing a huge change in their country and they don't like what they see but they have to live here, work here - so even if they voted out the PAP at the 2016 elections, it's too late, the PRCs are already here, you can't just kick them out like that. So there's a lot of pent up anger amongst the locals and they are just looking for any excuse to jump on the anti-FT bandwagon and spew out all this xenophobic stuff - but when it becomes racist, then it becomes very disturbing.

Limpeh: I can see what you mean - but it doesn't help when they allow this to cloud their judgement.

Journalist: Can I just say... I don't think you should write about this Jerard Lee any more lah. Sure you write well and it is driving a lot of traffic to your blog, but it is ultimately a private matter between him and Timetric. You shouldn't get involved by writing about it for a few reasons: firstly it is still an internal dispute at this stag and secondly, you're giving his case publicity - you're giving his case credence by writing about it rather than ignoring it. He doesn't deserve the publicity that your blog is giving him - he is craving attention, don't give it to him. It is probably fuelling his sense of victimhood and give it a few weeks, his "friends" on the forums would've found another anti-FT story to get angry about and forget out this case, but Jerard Lee would still be left with a legal bill and no job. Do him a favour and just leave the poor guy alone lah.

Are there things I ought not blog about?

In life, there is a difference between what you want and what you can get - it takes a wise man to be able to discern the difference between the two. I just hope Jerard Lee has a decent lawyer who can advice him on what his best options are. He needs help and I hope he gets it.

Limpeh: In a sense, I am like Jerard because I am craving attention too as a blogger - there's no point in writing a blog piece on an issue I feel so passionately about like my piece on the place of Hokkien in Singapore which didn't get many readers. Believe you me, I get upset when I spend hours on a piece that ends up getting read by just a few hundred people. My last two pieces on the issue have generated over 25,000 hits on my blog in the last 48 hours - so it is tempting to write about something that people do want to read about. But I take your point and there probably won't be a part 5.

Journalist: But hey, I hope this helps. You do write well, I like your blog and I want to encourage you to continue writing. There's just a part of me that actually does feel sorry for Jerard Lee, that's all. Don't kick a man when he is down and believe me, Jerard Lee is already on the floor lah. Show him some mercy lah.

Limpeh: I understand. Thank you very much for your time today.

Journalist: Sure. You're welcome.

Is it wrong to blog about this story?