generalbaguette 1 point ago
My first thought is that this is clearly a Singaporean who hates all white people - oh yeah, there are plenty of racist Singaporeans who hate all white people and would gladly spout bullshit like that online which are clearly untrue. Like, just how fucking stupid is this person? I need to take a deep breath and then treat this as a geography essay to discuss the topic of housing in Britain.
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| Smaller than the tiniest HDB flat? Really? |
Now the population of the UK is 62.6 million - amongst these 62.6 million people are some very rich people and some extreme poor people and everything in between. The kind of housing one has is directly related to just how rich you are - obviously, rich people can afford to buy much nicer houses with lovely gardens whilst poorer people tend to end up in council housing (the British equivalent of the ubiquitous Singapoean HDB flats).
There are plenty of busy cities like London, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow etc where property is very expensive in the city centre - contrast that to the countryside in places like Scotland, Wales and Somerset where there is plenty of land and you can actually get huge houses for as little as £40,000 (approx S$80,000) - but that does mean living in the countryside, far away from the nearest big city. Actually, that is a lifestyle that many people do like as long as they are able to commute by car or can work from home. I own two flats in central London - one is worth about £500,000 and the other around £400,000. They're not big but the location is great - I live in the one in Soho whilst I let the one in Chancery Lane out. Such is the nature of property prices for those who do choose to live in central London.
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| How many Brits get to live like the Beckhams? |
Are there crappy, small British houses which "smaller than the tiniest HDB flat"? Why this assertion that British houses are small when clearly they are not? One thing I would say is that in British city centres, you do tend to get many one-bedroom flats. This is a cultural thing - most British people leave home at the age of about 18. That's right, they do not go on living with their parents into their 20s and 30s if they can help it - they move out. So by the time they are in their 20s, they get a job in the city and have the choice of either living with some friends and sharing a house/flat - or they can get a small flat for themselves if they value their privacy. A city like London does have a lot of highly paid young executives who do live on their own in one bedroom flats - now these flats are small (well it does what it says on the tin, only one bedroom). But hey, such flats were designed for one person living on his own - they were never designed to house a family of five and if you are a family of five, you would move to somewhere cheaper where you could have sufficient space for your family to live comfortably.
Such is the beauty of living in a country like the UK (or Malaysia for that matter, heck any country that is not a city state like Singapore) - ie. if you need more space, you have the luxury of moving to a cheaper neighbourhood. For Londoners, that means moving out to the suburbs or one of the satellite towns (Croydon, Watford, Crawley etc) which are just outside London but are well connected to London via the train network, so you could still work in London and commute in everyday from where you have bought a lovely big house. In Singapore, you simply don't have that choice as there's no countryside or suburbs to retreat to - short of moving to Johor, but that's in another country. What are you going to do then? You're stuck in Singapore with no cheaper alternative.
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| Should Brits envy Singaporeans for their HDB flats? |
I tell you what many Singaporeans end up doing - they end up living with their parents all the way into their 20s, 30s, 40s, even their 50s and they wait for their parents to die so they can inherit their parents' flat. Oh, but if you have siblings, then you will end up fighting over the property. It's not an enviable position to be in, oh dear. And your government thinks that Singapore is not crowded enough as it is, they want to increase the population to 6.9 million. Oh you are so screwed, you are so fucking screwed in Singapore. Ah damn, so what is this you were saying again about entire British houses being smaller than the tiniest HDB flats?
The big difference between Singapore and the UK is the dominance of flats - in Singapore, the vast majority of Singaporeans live in HDB flats. Even those who live in nice condominiums are still living in flats - albeit very nice flats indeed. In the UK, flats tend to be associated with city centres where space is scarce and land is very expensive. Once you move out into the suburbs, you do get these huge sprawling suburbs with loads of terrace or semi-detached houses that go on for miles in miles in miles. London suburbs like Ealing, Richmond, Golders Green, Hendon, Putney and Wimbledon are just a few such sprawling suburbs full of rather large houses in quiet streets, full of families bringing up their children in nice houses which have lovely gardens. These houses are big - they are a lot bigger than your average HDB flat and they have gardens. London simply isn't as densely populated as Singapore and the further outside London you get - the cheaper land becomes.
The population of London is 8.2 million but that is in an area which spans 1,570 km² - more than twice the size of Singapore. That's just London - in Scotland, There are less people in Scotland than Singapore! There are 5.31 million people in Singapore today whilst there are only 5.25 million people in Scotland. The area of Singapore is 710 km² whilst the area of Scotland is 78,390 km² You get the idea - Singapore is incredibly crowded whilst Scotland is relatively empty. Needless to say, unlike Singapore, land is cheap and plentiful here.
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| Limpeh in the English countryside - a lot of space... |
When I did some research for a previous article I wrote, I realized that if I didn't insist on living in central London, for my half a million pounds, I could easily get me a big house - upstairs downstairs, about 4 or 5 bedrooms, complete with a huge garden but that would mean living about an hour outside London in somewhere near Northampton. Oh but just think - no neighbours, that is such a lovely thought. I could leave behind the big city and retire to the countryside. Well, maybe when I am older, when I am an old man and want to retire to somewhere peaceful! But for now, it is nice to live in the city centre even if it means having far less space in my current flat.
Whilst council housing isn't exactly desirable, they are a function of our welfare state. In the UK, these houses are built for those who simply do not have the means to support themselves and would otherwise be homeless. So these council houses are rented by the poor who either pay a highly subsidized rental rate or in some cases, the poor people who live there are entitled to housing grants which pays their rent. This is eventually funded by the tax-payer of course, which does in part account for our higher rate of income tax. By that token, British council housing is basic, these cannot be compared to the nicer properties available on the private market for those who have the means to get on the housing ladder. However, the number of people who do live in such properties are actually quite small as most people would gladly go live somewhere nicer if they have the means to afford it. Is British council housing 'crappy'? No, the word is 'basic' - they're basic, 'no frills' and functional but then again, so are HDB flats when you compare them to fancy condominiums. Such is the nature of social / government / council housing.
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| The quality of your living space really depends on your earning power. |
But what about Singapore? What is the system there? The system is, "you can't afford a flat? Fuck you, go live with your parents, you'll remain their problem, don't bother the government - we are not interested in helping you, tough shit. You should've studied harder at school you fucking loser, bwahahaha."
I am not criticizing HDB flats - if you look at HDB estates, they are very well planned new towns. Plenty of green spaces between the blocks, playgrounds, local amenities like sports facilities, schools, shops, hawker centres - they do have their merits. Amount of living space per person, however, is pretty low. HDB flats are designed for families, not singles. That is why married couples with children move to the front of the waiting list whilst singles usually end up looking on the private market if they want to get on the housing ladder. So whilst a 2-room HDB flat may be decent in size, it's for a whole family, not one person. So you have the parents in one bedroom, the child(ren) in the other - so the amount of living space is actually a lot less once you divide the size of the flat by 3, 4 or 5. Do the maths, they're not big when you look at the way they are designed to house an entire family. So no, they are not bigger than British houses - no way!
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| HDB estates have plenty of local amenities - such as green spaces for locals to relax. |
So there you go, I hope I've put this fucking idiot in his place. Okay, I get it, you're a racist, you hate Angmors, you hate British people. But spouting such bullshit lies about British houses only exposes just how fucking ignorant and stupid you are. Listen, just because you tell a lie doesn't make it come true - it just makes you a very bad liar when nobody is convinced. Now fuck off, go away and stop embarrassing yourself you bloody goondu bodoh.
LIFT, I suspect that the guy is not just racist. A lot of times, these Singaporeans are always like that because they have been drummed in via the media with the idea that the rest of the world is very terrible and that Singapore is the only best available option no matter how bad it is. For example, when I moved to Canada years back(I had lived and studied in Canada before, so Canadian culture was not new to me at all). Singaporeans would always say, "I don't get why you are so eager to go live in another country where you are a second-class citizen and are racially discriminated against." Obviously, that was not true on all counts, because Canadians all treated me as one of them and even better than the way most Singaporeans treat each other out of competitiveness! That stereotype they have been fed with is that the rest of the world out there is just plain terrible no matter what, and it applies even to other Asian countries such as Japan and South Korea.
ReplyDeleteI have stayed over at a friend's apartment in the UK once while there on a conference, and honestly, as much it might look small on the outside compared to a HDB flat, the inside is way way better and more furbished, not to mention that she could actually have the space to go up to another second floor or so. That second floor was not even like any attic and was quite spacious too.
Canadian housing might be a rather different matter, since the Canadian economy is currently in a state of bubble, and the housing economy is the best case of it. Years back in cities like Vancouver, Toronto or Calgary, you would never be able to get a decent apartment without sharing it with other roommates, and your monthly rent could amount to more than a thousand easily(not unlike NYC or LA). That said, it is a major aspect of their housing bubble. Space though really varies on the type of housing. I have lived in houses where I shared the house with various roommates but had my own room, basement rooms, and also, apartments before, and I think that it is really a case of 'you get what you pay for' literally. It is never like Singapore, where many are just forced to live with their parents and become 'uber-teenies' in mindset (by not 'growing up independently' of parents) due to this set-up.
You're right Kev, totally. Singaporeans who are like frogs at the bottom of the well are happy to be fed a constant stream of propaganda and lies to convince themselves that they are happy to be in Singapore. After all, in a place like Britain, we don't have the problem of overcrowding like Singapore - few places are like Singapore and Hong Kong when it comes to that kind of population density. Sure our city centres are crowded but all you need to do is to get on the train, 30 mins out of town and you're in the countryside: farms, fields, forest. People who live in the city centre have smaller dwellings, but people who are in the suburbs and countryside often have much bigger houses - even council houses in the rural areas come with GARDENS. Like I'd like to see a HDB flat with a real garden, that's just not gonna happen in a land-scarce city like Singapore. It boils down to population density and as it is, Singapore has already overtaken Hong Kong in terms of population density so there's no way you can start comparing the size of houses in other countries with Singapore, no way.
DeleteI can't comment on your friend's flat lah, but it just boils down to the fact that the richer she is, the more space she can buy with her money - rich people have nice houses, poor people don't. Any surprise there?
As for Canada, surely there are the options of the suburbs vs downtown (same thing in the UK really). If you can't afford to live downtown, you move out to the 'burbs?
My friend is actually my former English teacher from secondary school, now retired and living in the UK in the southern suburbs of Lewisham in the metro London area. She is paying mainly from her pension and so on, and as it is, although she claims that her abode is humble, I do feel that it is really very well-furbished inside and has none of that 'chicken coop' feeling that Singapore's HDB flats give you on the inside and outside......
DeleteYes, for Canada, the 'suburban' or 'off-core' area outside of downtown areas present different pricings for housing as well as different sizes for their rooms and spaces. I remember living in a basement room once, and although the basement room was kind of small, I had the whole kitchen (basement kitchen, that is) to myself, and since I loved cooking, I had no complaints. It had become my 2nd home comfortably back in Calgary, although I had known somehow I would not remain in Calgary forever come graduation.
That Singaporean guy is rather pathetic, needless to say. A friend of mine who is becoming an Australian citizen next year told me before that many Singaporeans who stay on back in Singapore are really ill-informed or misinformed, and we both had no idea how such misinformation came about. For crying out loud,there are people who think that you can downgrade citizenships to Permanent residencies, even if you do not have another passport from another country! If you give up a citizenship, it is total and restoring it is impossible, just as you would find it hard to get a PR card or status after you give up your citizenship or PR in another country. Such misinformation sickens me to the core. I have been asked some rather silly questions by Singaporeans who know that I have left years back and asked me if I have given up my passport even as it is, although I am still working towards residency elsewhere. For G-d's sake, I still have my Singaporean passport and will not give it up to become a 'stateless' person until I have another passport. O Jes-s Chr-st!God forgive my anger and swearing because these people really did not read up on the facts.....
As for population density, I agree with you. No other city, except maybe Hong Kong, has a population density to compete with Singapore, and even in Japan and South Korea, when I take the subway, there are actually a lot of moments when I can actually find a SEAT inside the subway carriage and sit down comfortably. This would NEVER happen in Singapore, as far as I recall from a visit back in 2011, because from the early rush hours till 11pm at night, the subway trains were ridiculously packed like sandwiches. People were not even happily giving up seats but jostled and pushed each other aside sullenly. Now, how happy can such people be? They compete for space everywhere, even outside of competing for flats and living quarters! It is not for no reason that there is a sudden surge of youtube videos showing confrontations of people in the Singapore MRT trains, as well as silly crazy people doing their antics such as dancing around the poles and so on......urghhhhhh.....lack of absolute civility, unlike in Canada and South Korea......
DeleteYup, the misinformation is part of the propaganda of lies that they have to feed themselves - otherwise, what can they do? Face the truth that they're well and truly fucked by the PAP? How grim is that? That's why the whole thing is slowly falling apart. I'm sure you've heard the science experiment about the frog & hot water. Put a frog in very hot water and the frog will get a shock and jump out (and lives). Put a frog in cold water, then bring the water to boil - the frog (being cold blooded) will not notice the change in temperature and will allow itself to be boiled to death. That's what's happening in Singapore right now - nobody's panicking because 6.9 million is the figure for 2030.
DeleteIn terms of population density, Singapore has already overtaken HK to be the most densely population country (with population over 1 million - so that excludes Monaco and Macau).
Such is the power of denial amongst Singaporeans who choose to stay on there and never face the truth. I have been called 'biased' and a coward by those who chose to stay, but seriously, do I look like I was dumb enough to stay on in a country where the majority does not even want change and only complain all day long? Such negative energy would have screwed me up mentally if I stayed on there any longer. I am very sure that they will hit 6.9 million way earlier than 2030. The projected deadline does not match up with the speed with which the population increased from 3 million or so around 2006 to 5.3 million within just 4 to 5 years, and considering the greed and domineering nature of the PAP, I am sure that they will 'out-perform' themselves on this count of getting people into the island country. I had a ridiculously stupid friend back there who openly claims to be SPG(he is gay and likes whites) saying, "Let's hope that they bring more angmohs in." It was a palm-to-face moment as I read what he wrote, and I just said, "FAT HOPE. You are going to see the PRCs and third world country people whom you always criticized out of your racism!" Ewwwwww....
DeleteHahahahaha, your SPG friend can wait long long ... only PRCs, no gay Angmohs for him! But seriously, if he is fit, I have a Dutch gay friend in Singapore whom I can introduce him to.
DeleteNah, he is short, effeminate, small and tries to act all blondie by dyeing his hair (seriously, that's what he is, and everyone notices that he is really effeminate for a guy. Not sure why). Honestly, as good a friend as he is, this statement really peeved me. He talks about everything as if it was down to his SPG-ism....I really wish that he would not make such statements like that. Maybe he was just trying to be funny, as he usually is. I would not take much faith in that statement or wish of his. Maybe he is just voicing his wish in a kind of 'Freudian slip' manner.
DeleteBut back to the population density issue, have you ever read Gopalan Nair's Singapore Dissident blog? I find it so amusingly irreverent as much as Nair has an axe to grind against the Lee family and its associates. His metaphor, or should I say literal image, for this overcrowding was that of dangling monkeys from tree limb to tree limb, except that the tree limbs are all substituted with flats which can only go upwards with the total scarcity of land and space in Singapore. How much more land can they reclaim? How much of nature and even the artificially installed and planted parks do they plan to demolish to make space for the extra 2 to 3 million????? Do they plan to reclaim land all the way to Indonesia and Malaysia and then Australia? (Note my tone of intentional sarcasm here....:P)
Ah ... bittersweet reading this article. So much schadenfreude and so much pain at the same time. I still cannot believe people can tell me about their "own" (hot potato, last-touch-is-loser) HDB flats, without blinking. At the same time, I cannot believe I am stuck with one myself ... >.<
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, HDB flats are a great example of how you can house this many people on such a small island - they aren't bad, but let's not pretend that they are BETTER than what you have in other countries when quite simply, other countries have the luxury of SPACE, something that land scarce Singapore doesn't have. So you can argue in terms of the way it is built by the government is better than in other countries, how new towns like Yishun, Bishan, Pasir Ris etc are beautifully designed - that they are a triumph in urban morphology and urban planning. They do have their merits but certainly not in terms of size. They are pretty good when it comes to sizes - your average 2 room HDB flat is of a good size but bear in mind the fact that these are designed for FAMILIES, not singles. So we're talking mom + dad in one bedroom, child(ren) in the other so the amount of living space you have per human being is actually a lot less. It is extremely rare to find a single individual living in a 2 room HDB flat - they're just not built for singles, unlike in the west where we do have more 1 room flats and studios which are built for young people who have moved out of their parents' house and are living on their own but don't have a spouse + kids so they only need a small space.
DeleteI agree. As public housing goes, HDB flats are amazingly good.
DeleteI even understand the rationale for the HDB restrictions (encouraging family life etc). But over the years, people have either lost sight of the original motivation for public housing, or have twisted it way beyond my wildest nightmares. So now, when there is a societal change (more singles), policy fails to keep up to arrive at an equitable scenario for all involved when public housing covers 80% of all households.
Well in the UK, it is very common for singles to get together and rent a house together so they live just like a family, in a home designed for a family except that they're not related by blood, but hey, they create their own family units. I guess in Singapore, singles default to simply living with their parents which is fine if all parties are happy with that arrangement I suppose.
DeleteI think many of us dont have choices. I am 29, single and earning a little less than 3,000 a month(before cpf deduction). Its pathetic, but its what most friends my age are earning. 3-4 grand unless you are doing sales or some professional jobs. I had moved out to live with my boyfriend (a divorcee) who had his own hdb 7years ago. Now that we are no longer together, i felt really ashamed moving back home and living with my parents. However there is no way I can afford a house myself. Condos, even studio apartment are out of the question. I cant apply for a hdb because of my age. Tried looking for a place to rent but a basic bedroom cost 800to900bucks a month. More than a third of my take home salary. Many people actually are living with their parents because they didnt have a choice. I wanted very much to get out of this country too, but i am only a service staff with a tertiary education. at the rate the country is "progressing" it is no wonder more and more average people like me are unhappy.
ReplyDeleteNow I am going to come across as unsympathetic - but spending a 1/3 of your salary on rent is no big deal really. People in other countries spend even more money on rent/mortgage - what are you doing with the money you're saving by living with your parents? Going shopping for useless overpriced designer knick-knacks on Orchard Road?
DeleteThere's NOTHING to stop you from getting out of Singapore if you're that unhappy - what are you waiting for?
To K L Koh,
Delete> I wanted very much to get out of this country too, but i am only a service staff with a tertiary education.
The question is "how much" do you want to get out of the country? What are you willing to sacrifice? And what are you willing to accept in its place?
E.g. I have met Filipinos in Canada who come over to work as domestic maids (live-in caregivers) just so that they can eventually get Canadian residency. With minimum wage law and tight labour stipulations on workplace conditions, domestic maid is a decent job here. Amongst many of those I've met, the reason they came as domestic maid is not because they don't have the paper qualifications, but because they don't have the money required for the other visa options.
E.g. When I was considering emigration back in 2006, I even considered taking up ITE courses to become an electrician or a plumber (for the purpose of qualifying for emigration to Australia or New Zealand), if my other plans should fall through. I came up with that idea after meeting many South Asians (apparently working in Singapore's construction industry) at a migration agent's talk targeted at that group. They barely spoke English and the agency fees to help them process their Australian immigration application was high (relative to their pathetic salary in Singapore construction), yet it did not stop them from pursuing their dream.
E.g. I have known of nurses in Singapore who specifically chose to study nursing at the local Polytechnics because they want to emigrate. With your tertiary education, you qualify for the WDA PCP (Professional Conversion Programme) Nursing scheme. Note: Just don't leak to others that you're doing it to emigrate, ok?
http://winkingdoll.blogspot.ca/2012/11/questions-about-pcp-nursing-in-singapore.html
There are many ways to emigrate. It is a question of reading through all the rules and regulations of the various countries that accept immigrants and figuring out how you can fit into their immigration scheme. So I have to agree with LIFT here that you have to first overcome your own psychological barrier that you can't.
Lastly, unless you're really talented like LIFT or rich/well-connected like some other immigrants, be prepared that life overseas may or may not be greener. If going overseas means losing your local "service staff" job to work overseas at a "dirty" or blue collar or "minimum wage" job, would you still do it? Read some of the success and failure stories of Singapore immigrants to Canada below and you'll get an idea of what it may take to successfully adapt to a new country.
http://sg-quitters.blogspot.ca/2011/08/emigrating-to-canada-my-personal.html
Cheers, WD.
Well said, there are loads of Filipinos in the UK as well working in the health service - they're not particularly high the food chain in the hospital, ie. they're not the brain surgeons, but they are performing various tasks within the health service that are (to be blunt) near the bottom of the food chain, but they're here, with a steady job, decent pay (minimum wage) and many do become British citizens in the long run. Thanks for the reply WD.
DeleteHi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteJust want to suggest that for some, their choice to continue to live with their parents may be due to their family/societal expectations that "adult children move out only when they get married and form their own family units". This is especially true if they have a controlling parent. Long story short, I am speaking from experience -- some would continue to stay with their parents just avoid the hysterics I encountered when I told my mother that I was moving out.
http://winkingdoll.blogspot.ca/2012/07/a-love-story-part-9.html
Cheers, WD.
Then again WD, look at KL Koh moaning about spending a third of her income on rent - like WTF? That's completely NORMAL. What the hell is wrong with these freaking Singaporeans? They want to earn $3000 a month and still want to live like the Beckhams in a luxury mansion? Get real!!! That's why I rant about this ridiculous sense of entitlement that some of these useless, stupid Singaporeans have. They always want something for nothing and when they don't get it, they sulk and complain, like what the hell is this crazy charbor expecting?! Duh. OK rant over.
DeleteLIFT, the sense of entitlement among Singaporeans can be quite terrible. I think that is perhaps the thing that stops many from even trying to emigrate. The ones who do might eventually go back for reasons of 'comfort', if they do not get the same cushy job they had in Singapore.
DeleteI do not technically think that Canadians or Americans in their own country(or even Aussies) necessarily have it better than the immigrants, judging from the state of the economy, and as much as there might be some residual prejudices against immigrants(such as that Chinese are not good workers and all that kind of stereotypes....it exists in Canada actually, and some employers tell it to the interviewee upfront), the truth is, self-entitlement really should be left at the doorstep when it comes to emigrating. The first few years of emigrating are always tough, with the need to find a decent job that will help you put the food on the table, as well as to maintain the residency rights via the minimal period of residence. But surely, using the idea of a 'lowly job' is one of the worst reasons to pack your bags and go back to Singapore.
Dear Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteReally enjoyed your article on British housing, cracked me up haha. Especially relevant as well since I am currently looking for a flat in Central London to rent for the next two years. Houses in central London were never intended for huge families to stay in. Well, with the exception of REALLY rich people in Kensington.
Do you have any advice/lobang for a flat with four rooms for four guys studying at LSE for the next two years? We tried looking up agents but most are for three people...our best bet right now is a 640 per week flat (4 bedrooms + 1 kitchen) near Pheonix road at King's Cross (a tad far from our sch).
Hi there, thanks for your comments. You know, all you have to do is go to Green Park - alight at the tube station and head due north and you will walk into a residential area of Mayfair where there are huge houses with private gardens despite being in prime property in the most expensive part of central London. These houses in Mayfair and neighbouring Belgravia will make those in Kensington look cheap! There are also those 2 condo development in The Knightsbridge and One Hyde Park - where the Penthouse sold for £140 million.
DeleteAnd guess what? There are ordinary folk like Limpeh who do live in central London, I have a W1 postcode where I live (and my other flat has a EC1 postcode) - it's just that the flats in central London are small and designed for singles/couples but NOT families. This is driven by market forces - there is a huge demand for housing by young working professionals who move to London for work, these people tend to be single or coupled without children. When they do have children, they then move out to the suburbs or further afield for bigger houses. However in Singapore, land is scarce so the government creates a system whereby parents with children get priority to HDB flats - HDB flats are even used as an incentive to make young couples settle down and have children. Different country, different system - if the government didn't intervene like that in Singapore to help young families, they would find it a lot harder to raise young families and the birth rate would fall even further.
As for housing in London, I say what you have found in Kings Cross is pretty good already. The LSE campus is in central London spread between Holborn & Aldwych, that's VERY central. It's like having your university campus on Orchard Road and you're trying to find accommodation within walking distance? There would be some accommodation in the Russell Square area - but you'll be competing with other students from UCL, SOAS and all the other UOL colleges based around that area for that much cherished property within walking distance of college. Kings Cross may not be walking distance but it's certainly cycling distance. I say, go for the Kings Cross offer and get cycling. I cycle in London and most of the time, it's great.
The average size of a British new build (house) is 76 sq metres - according to this report from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8201900.stm) quoting the British government's adviser on architecture.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile a quick google search revealed that the average size of an HDB 4-room flat is 90 sq metres. That's down from the 100 sq metres in the past. But 90 sq metres is generous compared to 76. In fact a 90 sq metre flat would feel a lot more than 14 sq metres more spacious than a 76 sq metre house - because in the flat, it's all spread over one floor whereas the house needs space for the stairs and stairwell.
The Royal Institute of British Architects has also expressed concern that new builds in Britain are about 8 sq metres short of its recommended size.
Britain seems particularly parsimonious in this regard. According to the BBC article I quoted, British new builds are the smallest in Europe. Other countries have much more spacious housing - 113 sq metres in France, 137 sq metres in Denmark, 206 sq metres in Australia and 214 sq metres in the USA.
So it seems that the original poster was not inaccurate in their comments, and in the light of these British statistics (no anti-Western bias there surely), it would seem that your criticism is not supported by the empirical data.
Hi Lila, I welcome your comment but find your argument highly flawed. I am writing a post to explain why I disagree with you, with all due respect. Gimme a few hours, it'll be ready later tonight.
DeleteAs promised, nothing personal: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/limpeh-vs-lila-on-issue-of-british-vs.html
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