Saturday 23 June 2018

深圳 notes 6: The lies of a Chinese teacher

Have you ever heard of the saying, "when all your have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail"? Well, that's the law of instrument and it is something I want to talk about today quite specifically, in the context of learning the Chinese language. In the last 8 weeks, I have been in 8 countries (the UK, China, Macau, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Spain, Finland and Estonia) and I work in a very multilingual business environment where I do use a number of my languages on a regular basis. But today, I want to challenge something that I was told as a child growing up in Singapore: when we were kids growing up, my father used to wax lyrical about just how important it was to be good in the Chinese language, how it would be vital in the business world in the future when China is a world economic superpower. My Chinese is quite rusty today and I did struggle with the language in China, but has it affected my ability to do my job in corporate finance? Actually far from it - to be really cruel about it, I make far more in a month what a Chinese teacher in Singapore is making in a year, so does that mean that it was a complete was of time to have spent all those years studying Chinese in Singapore then? Is the Chinese language useful at all? Why were we fed those lies then about Chinese being somehow useful in the workplace? Well it's pretty obvious: Chinese teachers don't have a clue what the hell they're talking about.
Was it a good choice to spent all those years learning Chinese?

I suppose the reason why I am writing this piece is just out of sheer frustration with my parents: you see, I think at some level, they realize that as primary school teachers, they couldn't help me cope with the complex world of business that I had chosen to enter a an adult. After all, they were primary school teachers, the world beyond the primary school gates confused them. The only useful thing my father could give me to prepare me for adult life was the language he taught: Chinese. So when I went on to achieve great things at university and then in my career, they would often make comments like, "oh it is because you speak Chinese, right?" I would roll my eyes in total disbelief because I they knew that they were hoping that they had somehow managed to contribute to my success despite the fact that the languages I use most at work are French, German and Spanish (along with English of course) and I hardly ever use Chinese. When I pointed this out to my mother, she adamantly pointed out that, "yes but maybe one day you will need it, right?" And goodness me, that really upset me - I told her that she doesn't even know what I do for a living, so she couldn't possibly make a statement like that at all. I don't want to seem ungrateful to my parents, but I just have to accept that as primary school teachers, trying to explain to them the world of corporate finance is like trying to teach a cat how to speak Greek. 

But putting my own experience aside, just how useful is the Chinese language to young students these days? Well, the simple answer is no, it is not useful at all for a lot of jobs and unless you're intending to either go work in China and Taiwan or if you intend to work in the tourism industry where you are dealing with tourists from China and Taiwan all the time, then you don't need Chinese at all - English is all you need. If you wish to go work in China and/or Taiwan, then your Chinese needs to be good enough to operate in a work environment where not only everyone in Chinese speaking, you will need to be able to deal with all the paperwork in Chinese. The fact is most Singaporeans simply have not managed to attain that standard of Chinese after years of studying in Singapore - the standard of Chinese required to say watch a Chinese movie without subtitles or order a meal in a restaurant in Chinese is far lower than the standard required to produce an official marketing document in Chinese for the local China market or to handle a Q&A session about a technical product entirely in Chinese. In short, the system in Singapore is highly warped: students are made to study a difficult language for years, yet very few of them ever attain a standard high enough to actually use it in the work place and for the others, it is really just a complete waste of time. They would have been much better off learning French.
You know whom I am going to blame for this? Chinese teachers, I know that because my father is one such (retired) Chinese teacher. Don't get me wrong, my father wasn't a bad Chinese teacher, that wasn't the problem: the problem is that he knew little of the world beyond the primary school gates. So when he tries to dispense any kind of career advice about how useful Chinese will be to his students, well, essentially he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about as he is so out of touch with what is going on in the job market. Imagine if he told his students, "Chinese is not important, you don't need to pay attention as English is really the only language you need to get a job these days." No, like many teachers, they resorted to threatening the students with their own future. "This subject is going to be so important for your future, you will need it to get a job - if you don't pay attention, if you are lazy and fail this subject, then you will destroy your own future." Many of us students did study hard and we did as we were told because we actually believed our teachers - it was a means to get us to obey, study hard and do our homework. Chinese teachers would also get into trouble if many of their students performed poorly at the exams - so in order to make sure that the students do well for their exams, most teachers don't think twice about using threats like that to scare the students into studying very hard.

Many teachers actually tell lies like that to scare their students into studying harder and paying more attention, but really, a good teacher shouldn't have to resort to such lies and tactics. I have met such good teachers before and that's the main reason why I studied geography at university: how on earth is a geography teacher going to convince a class in this day and age that you can't get a job without geography? Let's face it, you can be quite ignorant about geography but as long as you're very good at what you do, you'll get on perfectly fine in the working world. So what do geography teachers do instead to sustain their students' attention during a lesson? Well, they make the lesson interesting, engaging and interactive: in short, they do what a good teacher is supposed to do in the first place. They bring the topics to life, they challenge the students to think outside the box, they keep the lessons fun for the students whilst imparting vital knowledge. So once the good teacher has achieved that, the students will crave the knowledge and will want to learn about the subject because the teacher has done such a good job imparting that knowledge. It seems that only lousy maths and Chinese teachers have to resort to the 'if you don't know Chinese/maths, you can't get a job in the future' lie to scare their students into studying. Are the teachers deliberately lying or do they actually believe the crap they are saying?
So was my father a liar who had no qualms about misleading his students? No, I don't think so. As someone who was a Chinese teacher in Singapore, he actually had virtually no contact with anyone from China at all. After all, his social circle was extremely limited to his Singaporean colleagues (and ex-colleagues) at the school and his neighbours who lived in the same street: none of whom actually included people from China. Whilst he has visited China as a tourist and watches TV programmes from China, he has never ever spent a day working with a real person from China. So whilst he can clearly has a very good command of the Chinese language as a Chinese teacher, he hasn't actually had any real meaningful contact with Chinese people in the working world. Like why would he anyway, he's just a humble primary school teacher, not some kind of international businessman doing deals all over the world? It is almost unfair to expect him to know that much. No, I do believe that there is a certain sincerity on his part to help all his students prepare themselves for the challenges of the working world and in a small way, as a Chinese teacher, he is indeed contributing to their education and I'm sure he would like to think that his contribution is not just meaningful but important. I'm sure many teachers do enter the profession with those same noble intentions, to make a meaningful impact through education.

The truth lies somewhere in between my father's noble but idealistic intentions and my sarcastic, cynical attitude. Teachers do play a vital role in their students' lives but they can do a lot more than just getting the students to pass exams. Allow me to tell you the story about my friend Kelly (not her real name): Kelly had a difficult childhood, her father held a dead-end job earning very little money and her mother couldn't work full time due to her poor health. Kelly had an older sister who always got into trouble as she fell into bad company, her older sister ended up getting married quite young just to get away from the family. You get the idea, life was so tough for poor Kelly and she didn't have much aspiration as a young person - she was very afraid of her parents who had a nasty temper and she was also bullied by her older sister at home. As a result, she was a timid and quiet person in school and typically, students like that just kinda fade into the background: they're shy and quiet, they keep to themselves, they don't cause trouble, they don't speak up, they become invisible. Luckily for Kelly, one teacher actually recognized that despite the fact that she was clearly a troubled child, Kelly was quite intelligent and was achieving pretty decent grades despite not really studying much. During a creative writing class, she displayed glimpses of brilliance in her writing: she understood wit and irony, came up with original jokes; this was something her teacher did not expect from a child who was normally so very quiet in class.
So this teacher began taking an interest in Kelly, spending more time with her and encouraging her to think about university. Now for many of my Singaporean readers, you guys don't really get a choice in the matter because you're all expected to get a degree one way or another. However in Kelly's case, nobody in her family had ever applied to a university, never mind graduated and it was just something that Kelly had never ever thought about. That kind teacher got Kelly thinking about what she would like to do as a career and then worked out what Kelly had to do to get a job in finance eventually. When she went home and told her parents she wanted to work in banking, her mother laughed and said, "Are you joking, what do you know about banking? What the hell are you going to do there, clean the toilets in the bank? Make them tea for the managers whilst trying to seduce one of the rich old men?" Fortunately, with her teacher's help, Kelly mapped out a path of what she needed to do to make her dreams come true and twenty years later, she is now working in the world of corporate finance like me. Not only was she the first person in her family to go to university, she was the first person to do loads of things like travel longhaul, earn her first million, buy her own home. All this happened because a teacher cared about Kelly, this has little or nothing to do with whatever this teacher actually taught Kelly in the classroom - yes teachers can make an incredible impact, but it is often not with the lessons in the classroom.

Let me focus now on something that my father has said to justify why we should all study Chinese. "现在中国人很有钱!" (Chinese people are now very rich!) Where do I even begin, as this is the kind of stupid crap only my dad can come up with. Firstly, there is a Chinese middle class that is about 300 to 350 million (depending on what you define as middle class), that may seem like a huge number when you consider that the population of the USA is 325 million but even at 325 million, that represents just 25% of China's 1.3 billion population, that means 75% of Chinese people are still very poor. So surely we must adjust that statement to be, 现在中国有一些人很有钱, 但其中大多数仍然非常贫穷。(There are some rich people in China now, but the majority are still very poor.) But nonetheless, even if we do focus on this 325 million very rich Chinese people, how are you going to get a well paid job just because you speak Chinese? Chinese teachers like my father just don't see the link between being able to speak Chinese and actually getting a very well paid job - my father waxes lyrical about how the Chinese tourists in Singapore are spending a lot of money in town: when they go shopping on Orchard Road, they buy loads of designer goods from all the most expensive boutiques. But in this case, yes the salesperson serving the Chinese customers certainly speak Mandarin, but how much does a sales assistant in a shop on Orchard Road get paid? Is this the kind of job that will make you rich? Quite the opposite, you work extremely long hours and get paid very little for it. Certainly the owners of these designer boutiques see a lot more of the profits, but they're not the ones on the shop floor serving the Chinese customers and no, they don't need to know a word of Chinese.
Now that's the kind of detail that many Chinese teachers ignore: sure the Chinese teacher has taught the shop assistant a useful skill that is directly relevant to the job, but how satisfactory is the outcome for the shop assistant? Well, not at all satisfactory is the answer because it is not a well paid job at all compared to what a lawyer or hedge fund manager is earning. But this is when the Chinese teacher would play the anti-elitism card, "how dare you look down on people working in shops like that? You think you are so much better than them?" You get the idea, it's not that I am looking down on people like that (heck, one of my best friends works in a shop like that and I interviewed him for an article on my blog), I'm merely pointing out that if speaking Mandarin is pretty much all you can do, your employment options are very limited and the people who earn the millions are the lawyers and bankers who have a lot of other skills beyond the language(s) they do speak. In short, languages can only do so much for you in the job market - they are useful of course, but I'm afraid Chinese teachers often grossly exaggerate just how much of an advantage they will give you when young people are actually looking for a job today. Sure I am earning a lot of money today, sure I studied Chinese when I was in school but I can tell you that my ability to speak Mandarin is not what helped me make my millions - I simply relied on other more relevant skills to further my career. Being multilingual simply isn't enough to make you a lot of money these days.

What about working in China or Taiwan then, you may ask? Surely my ability to speak Chinese would open doors for me in those exciting markets, right? No, actually - they won't. Firstly, you need bear in mind the fact that in order to compete for the best jobs in those markets, you need to be able to speak/read/write Chinese at the level of a native speaker and very, very few Singaporeans actually manage to attain that kind of standard without actually having lived in a place like Taiwan or China for an extended period. Singaporeans are educated in English and if you are trying to compete for jobs in a Chinese speaking work environment, you're at a huge disadvantage. Oh are you trying to tell me that you're bilingual and you speak English as well? Guess what? The younger generation in China who have gone to the top Chinese universities tend to speak English rather well too and unlike Singaporeans, they are actually truly bilingual. Most Chinese Singaporeans are what I would refer to as an imbalanced-bilingual, that means that they are probably fluent in English and are at best competent in Chinese, but it is always going to be at best a second language. By that token, you're never going to compete with the locals for a job in their home market unless somehow, you can speak Chinese as well as someone who has grown up in China - which let's face it, is highly unlikely if you were educated in Singapore, in English.
When I went on my recent business trip to China, my father had no idea what the hell I was doing there (mind you, he doesn't even know what I do for a living since he doesn't understand the concept of corporate finance) but he said something like I can now 去中国跟中国人做生意 (go to China and do business with the Chinese) because I can speak Mandarin and I'm like, that's not how it works. Speaking Mandarin is certainly not a perquisite to doing business in China, it makes certain aspects easier of course like navigating your way around a big city like Shenzhen and being able to communicate with your taxi driver who doesn't speak English. But what kind of business are you doing in China? What makes you think the Chinese are going to roll out the red carpet for you just because you speak Mandarin? After all, over a billion people in China speak Mandarin, it is not a special skill - no quite the opposite, you're merely doing what everyone else in China is doing, you're not offering anything unique or different. Fortunately, I was in China with a company that had a brilliant product that the Chinese were very interested in and even though I was very self-conscious about just how much I struggled with the language, it wasn't an issue at all. After all, they were interested in the technology and the (rather poor) standard of my Chinese was thankfully a rather irrelevant point. Phew. Thank goodness.

And lastly, for all the headlines you have read about China's economic boom, about 现在中国人很有钱, those of us who have actually spent some time in China and have a deeper understanding about modern China will realize that it is not a nice place at all. The irony is that my father - the retired Chinese teacher - has a very sanitized vision of China gleamed through CCTV's programmes and during the few trips he has made to China, he has always been a part of a tour group. So he has never ever had to try to take a bus in China or even attempt to make a simple journey with public transport on his own. And most of all, he has never even befriended a single person from China before - that is if I were to exclude people like the friendly tour guide who was paid to be nice to him whilst he was on his holiday. Is my father unique in this aspect? Hardly, many older Singaporean Chinese people actually have little reason to have much contact with people from China. In sharp contrast, I have worked with colleagues from China for many years - at one stage, my best friend at work was a woman who was raised in Shanghai. As a child,  I was practically raised by my gymnastics coaches from China whilst training with the national team in Singapore. I have even had a huge shouting match with a Chinese colleague once entirely in Mandarin whilst we were working in Istanbul. Work has actually taken me to China on several occasions and despite the fact that my Mandarin is limited, I have engaged many Chinese clients and companies over the years (using English, not Mandarin as the language of communication) and as a matter of principle, I never use a tour guide whether I am in Africa or China. I just cringe at the idea of using a tour guide because I believe that only people like my parents need a tour guide; I'm quite capable of navigating my way around any Chinese city on my own. 
Thus someone like my father has a far more positive image of China than I have because he has never had to put up with rude and unreasonable Chinese colleagues (because he has never worked with Chinese people), he has never had to suffer the agony of using public transport in a crowded Chinese city and most of all, he is simply not accessing the bad news about China because he doesn't speak English. I have just watched a disturbing video by Serpentza - if you don't know him, he's a white South African Youtuber with a Chinese wife living in Shenzhen and his latest video is about Chinese ultranationalists who are extremely racist and xenophobic. In the video, he talks about how there's a group of Chinese nationalists openly plotting to kill him on the Chinese website Baidu and this kind of hate speech would be completely illegal in the West, but in China it is not only tolerated but condoned in the name of nationalism. Then he talked about how a French man and his Chinese wife was attacked in Beijing in broad daylight in a busy shopping district by a racist with a sword, looking to kill Americans. And the worst part of that story was that nobody stopped to help the Chinese woman who was stabbed as she bled to death in the busy street, despite the fact that it was in a busy street and I find it hard to get my head around how incredibly selfish, indifferent and cold these Chinese people are, to witness an attack like that and do nothing. How messed up is that kind of situation? I just look at it and feel sorrow and despair. 

Look, don't get me wrong. There are awful, nasty people in every country in the world and by the same token, I have actually made some incredible friends in China. But the bottom line is that China isn't that promised land that your Chinese teacher told you it was, it is a rapidly developing country with a lot of problems from pollution to corruption to an insane amount of bureaucracy. Unless you're as tough as Serpentza and are prepared to deal with those kinds of challenges, China is not going to be your friend. Here's a dose of reality for you young people here: nobody in China is going to do the dragon dance to welcome you just because you speak Mandarin, it's really no big deal to them. And if your Chinese teacher ever told you tales about 去中国跟中国人做生意 - sigh, how do I put this delicately without making it sound as if I am looking down on Chinese teachers? I think that Chinese teachers should stick to what they do best: teaching the Chinese language but they should tell their students to go seek career advice from someone who has actually built a really successful career rather than tell their students bullshit fairy tales about something they know nothing about. After all, why did my dad teach Chinese in a primary school in Ang Mo Kio all his life despite the fact that he had an excellent command of the Chinese language? Why didn't he 去中国跟中国人做生意? Why didn't he practice what he preached then? So, let me know what you think, leave a comment below please and many thanks for reading. 

18 comments:

  1. Hi LIFT, I thought I should point out that the teachers who usually put in more effort into engaging students in lessons in spite of the boring content are those who teach the non-core, “useless” subjects. Think art, geography, history, physical ed. Perhaps knowing that their role in the school is quite dead end (would most parents really care if you get straight A’s for art in primary school?), their mindset is usually that of “I know no parent or student here cares for grades in my subject, so instead of making the session terrible for them and myself,I might as well try to engage them so they can enjoy my class and everyone can have a great time!” Whereas, for core subjects such as Chinese (or other MTs), math and sciences, the teachers are under pressure to hit KPI’s in the form of A’s, so they resort to forcing students to concentrate on absorbing as much content as possible, which may produce better results at the expense of quality teaching and enjoyment. Perhaps there may be some form of insecurity here - the teachers know the core subjects are mostly useless but they need to prove that their role means something not just to the school (KPI wise), but to the students, so they exaggerate their influence in the students’ future. Just my two cents.

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    1. Hi Naomi, you have hit the nail on the head. Absolutely. The teachers for subjects like art, geography, history, PE etc do usually put in more effort into their lessons and you get teachers with a different mindset, attitude who are teaching that kind of subjects as opposed to the ones in primary school teaching the core subjects.

      Do the teachers actually realize how useless these core subjects are? Like honestly, do they? I don't think they do. I work in corporate finance and my mum still thinks that involves me sitting down doing maths all day, because oh banking got a lot of numbers need to calculate one right? And I'm just like, face-palm the kind of maths I do is not complex and I hardly ever do any calculations that can't be handled by the calculator app on my phone. Indeed, I don't do any real calculations, I input the data into the app and the computer does the maths, I just get the answer by knowing how to use the app. I guess what we learn in primary school is so far removed from the real world that I wonder if primary school teachers actually realize that - but there must be a purpose to education, to teach children how to learn, it is the process that matters rather than the knowledge per se because we do forget most of what we've learnt in school by the time we're adults anyway.

      I can't help but feel bitter about the crap my dad has spouted about doing business in China if you can speak Chinese. Yeah right. Why did he work all his life in a primary school in Ang Mo Kio? Why didn't he go to China to do business if it was that freaking easy eh? The fact is, Chinese teachers like him don't have a freaking clue what they are talking about - yet they abuse the influence they have as a teacher over their students, they should not be spouting rubbish like that in the classroom for it is wrong on so many levels.

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    2. What about complacency? Those teachers who teach the few main core subjects know very well that their position in the school is quite secure since core subject teachers are always in demand, hence they don’t really care about the manner their content is delivered as long as students produce the results to maintain good KPI. On the other hand, elective subject teachers are more dispensible and have to work harder at engaging students because, before the students can even churn out good results, they must build up a good reputation amongst the juniors to convince the students to take up their subjects in the future. And from there, they work hard at engaging the students during lessons so that the students will have more positive motivation than fear to give good results in response to such great teachers.

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  2. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/raising-7-children-under-3000-month-singapore-large-family-10462664

    Hey Limpeh, what do you think of this?

    In all honesty, if my husband turn out to be like him and wanted 7 kids (even though I wanted 2), I would get a divorce immediately and move away. I would rather be on call for 36 hours every week than to be married with 7 kids to such a selfish man. I think working would be easier than to be one stuck at home raising that much children.

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    1. Well I think it's incredibly irresponsible because ultimately it is the children who suffer. I do know of two men who have 6 kids - they're both very rich and at least money isn't a problem, but how much attention is each child going to get from the father? Not much, not enough. Gosh, one of these fathers with 6 kids is a colleague now and I don't approve let's put it that way, even if he can provide for each child $$$ financially, the children are inevitably going to be neglected (or at least some of them will be). The father only has 24 hours a day and most of that is spent working hard to provide for the big family.

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    2. I know this sounds extremely cruel but I just thought of a maid my sister had years ago, she had 2 kids back in Indonesia whom she doesn't see, cos she is working in Singapore as a maid. And people were waxing lyrical about how noble, she is working in Singapore to provide for her family and I'm like, why didn't you wait a few years, working in Singapore, get some money, then get married and have kids when you're a bit older and ready to start a family? You got it the wrong way round. Now you're a mother who barely ever sees her kids. That's just wrong on so many levels.

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  3. Hey LIFT! For me, I've never met any Chinese teacher who believed China to be a promise land. Teaching Chinese was simply their job; they either made it fun to learn, or they merely followed the syllabus and made it repetitive and boring.

    The fact that China "is a rapidly developing country with a lot of problems from pollution to corruption to an insane amount of bureaucracy"? No teacher's ever told me the opposite, nor have they encouraged learning Chinese because of potential business opportunities in China. Some of them have said as part of the Chinese youth, it was important that we understood our own language. (身为华人连一句华语都不会,不是丢脸死了?- which, as someone who sometimes stumbles over Chinese words while touring or living in China/Taiwan/Hong Kong, or even when speaking to my grandparents, it's definitely embarrassing as hell.) Others, in hindsight, haven't ever touched on the whys of learning it.

    So... I don't think I could particularly relate to your article regarding the teachers. I know some of my parents/relatives do believe Chinese to be important in the light of China's greater spotlight in the international community, but they aren't teachers. In this case, I've always figured it had to do less with their belief in using Chinese to talk to businessmen for money-making opportunities. It felt more like the belief that it was important for us to understand a language that not only belongs to our culture, but also one which more civilians are now speaking.

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    1. Allow me to respond to your points Avery:

      1. If you have been through the Singapore education system, so that's 6 years of primary school, 4 years secondary school, maybe 2 years JC so that's a maximum of 12 Chinese teachers you would have encountered, less if you didn't go to JC (say if you went to poly instead) or if you had the same Chinese teacher for 2 years in primary school (which is fairly common) - so you would have probably encountered about 10 Chinese teachers. You're drawing from a cohort of roughly 10 - that's a very small sample size whereas I am not just looking at my own Chinese teachers, my dad's a retired Chinese teachers and his social circle tended to comprise mostly of other Chinese teachers as well (birds of a feather) so my sample size is a lot bigger than yours and gathered over a longer period (yours ended when you left secondary school / JC - mine keeps going on for decades). So from a statistics point of view, because your sample size is much, much smaller, your findings are less reliable than mine. #statistics101

      2. I note that you had good Chinese teachers who didn't tell you bullshit. Well, good for you but mostly, good for them!

      3. I have just done the full set of travels through China, Macau, Hong Kong and Taiwan and sure I had my share of difficulties with Mandarin and especially with Cantonese when I was in Macau / HK. I was frustrated at not being able to express myself in Mandarin as clearly and eloquently as I would in English, but there's a difference between frustration and embarrassment. The Chinese people I encountered understood that I don't speak Chinese as a first language and was struggling on in Chinese as a courtesy to them; and when they spoke to me in English, I didn't give them a hard time if they made mistakes in English - it's called being decent to your fellow human beings and thankfully, for what it's worth, the people I encountered were decent people. Especially in Macau where they put up with my atrocious Cantonese (I'm a Hokkien speaker, I barely speak Cantonese).

      4. My grandparents are now all dead, but in the past, I had a weird situation whereby my father never taught me Hakka and his mother used to speak to me in Hakka and I would stare blankly at her - my father created that situation deliberately knowing she didn't speak Mandarin. Talk about weird. At least I can speak Hokkien to my other grandmother.

      5. You don't need to have to had a bad Chinese teacher in order to relate to story - take the famous diaries of Anne Frank for example. Are you going to read the story and say, "I can't relate to it because I'm not a Jew, I never lived through WW2, I was never imprisoned like that, I am not a woman etc..." Or if you can find it within yourself to relate to some of the emotions she experienced because you are human? I'm talking about something I encountered as the son of a Chinese teacher - I understand your experiences are different, but good grief, are you totally incapable of relating to anyone apart from yourself?

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    2. Hello. Please allow me to respond to your points as well:

      1. Yes, I went through the Singapore education system, up until JC. Pardon me for being foolish enough to respond to your question on what your readers thought in your post, whilst relying on my experiences which have shaped my opinions. I have not discounted yours, I have not attempted to convince you that my conclusions were more valid than yours, nor have I actively sought to be scornfully impolite. My sample size, as you say, is small, but it is mine and what I have. I would ask that you at least respect that.

      3. You seem to have taken my statement to mean I am calling Chinese who're incapable of speaking the language an embarrassment. That's not the case. What I had meant was 1) this was the notion some of my Chinese teachers had imparted upon their students, and 2) I - as in, me - felt embarrassed not having a good grasp of the language in the presence of others who were better. People who're unable to speak Chinese or its variants/dialects well? They may have a multitude of reasons why they can't do so, and if I can't do so, why would I give them a hard time about it? Never have I said these guys weren't decent people either just because they can't speak certain languages.

      4. I'm not certain what point you were making in 4. Could you clarify that?

      5. Honestly, two points here.

      1- I musn't have been clear in my first post, but I will clarify it here: I am unable to relate to the specific situation of a Chinese teacher trying to convince their students that learning Chinese would be beneficial because China's 'becoming rich'. I am, however, able to relate in the sense that my parents/relatives use that same reason to try to convince me to study the language. Does this fall under being able to relate to your post in your book?

      2- I think you've taken this statement, "I don't think I could particularly relate to your article regarding the teachers" to mean I cannot relate to everything else not experienced by myself. I do particularly enjoy stories from books, shows, anecdotes, etc. and the emotional ride their characters pull me through. I didn't think it would be necessary to include a defense like this in my previous post, but it seems not doing so has warranted your assumption.

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    3. OK Avery some bullet points for you.

      1. I'm not against you sharing your personal experiences, in fact I often find these anecdotes interesting to read but I am sure you know the concept of anecdotal evidence and I am cautioning you against that. You had good Chinese teachers, I get that - good for you and good for them. I am also pointing out to you that there are so awful Chinese out there and you were lucky enough to have never encountered those.

      2. OK if that's what your Chinese teachers said, then that's wrong as well. I don't think people would be such assholes to give you a hard time for not speaking a language. Heck, I am dealing with Chinese-Indonesians at work and they are my clients, they don't speak any Chinese at all because they didn't get to learn it in Indonesia and so what? I would never be as idiotic as to give them a hard time over that and if anyone did, then they are the ones with the problem, not my Chinese-Indonesian clients.

      3. I just highlighted that as an example of how it is so easy not to pass a language onto the next generation and how sometimes, it could be a deliberate gesture to spite one's parents, as my dad did to deliberately upset his parents.

      4. My point is simple, just because you haven't personally experienced something I have talked about, doesn't mean you should be incapable of trying to understand the point of view I have expressed. If you need to have personally experienced something before you can even try to relate to something someone else has presented, then good grief, you have no empathy. I can try to relate to say, a pregnant woman's struggle because I can try to understand what she is going through despite the fact that I am a man and can't experience what pregnancy must be like - but I use the power of empathy to try to offer understanding. That makes me a better person when dealing with people who are craving understanding, whereas you don't seem to wish to even make that slightest effort when you have not experienced exactly what I have experienced. Good grief. Where do I begin? Do I wanna be friends with someone who has that little ability to empathize?

      So by that token, I don't have anything else to say to you.

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    4. Look, if you don't want me around, then this will be my last comment.

      1. I understand your point about anecdotal evidence, and thanks for pointing it out. Call me sensitive, but it was your derision and snap judgement I felt was uncalled for.

      2. Yes, they were wrong. I don't think being unable to speak a language should influence one's treatment of others in any way, but I suppose that hasn't changed how I felt about my language abilities.

      3. I see. Thanks for clarifying.

      4. This. Look, I am, contrary to what you believe, able to put myself in people's shoes. Most easily so when I have experienced what they have, but also when people feel emotions such as pain, disappointment, happiness, etc. The circumstances may be different, but I can understand those, to provide all my sympathy and as much empathy as I can, and try my best to help them as I'm able, be it materialistically or through sitting by them and getting what they’re going through. I say 'as much', because personally, I do not think it's right for one to proclaim they completely understand how another feels without having been with them throughout their journey. I can only imagine the pain a woman feels as she's giving birth, I can only imagine the horror of living in a war-torn country. I try, and god, you don't know enough about me to claim that I do not, but who am I to say that what I'm feeling is an exact replica of what they've felt?

      I've made a mistake in using the word 'relate'. It's too general and inaccurate a term.

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    5. Avery, allow me to just say that I am very pleased that you had great Chinese teachers. Good for you and good for them. We need more good teachers in the world. Thanks.

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  4. I think what you Dad said about going to China to do business is bullshit. And since it takes too much effort to refute i won't even start.

    But assuming he knows the correct Chinese partner to form up with him (kuanxi is everything in China) what makes him think they speak the same language? Putonghua and SG Mandarin defers quite abit. Our pidgin Mandarin uses lots of loanwords like 巴剎 which is loaned from the Malay word pasar and 巴士 which is loaned from the English word bus. Then there is also the issue of dialects since all Southern provinces speak their own dialect (this you probably know since you went to Shenzhen and Macau.

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    1. Well yeah, that's why I am saying that despite the fact that my dad was a Chinese teacher, he knows precious little about China.

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  5. Haha love your posts because I can so relate to them. This reminds me of my mom who forced me to learn German as a third language even though I really wanted to learn malay to speak to my malay friends. Her reason was that Germany was a big country and I would have a bright future (French was an option so I suppose France may have been a bit insulted). Now I am not disputing that it was beneficial to learn German but more of the fact that my mom had no idea what she was talking about.

    On another note, agreed on the fact that our school system does not allow us to attain sufficient proficiency in chinese for work purposes. I attained excellent grades for chinese in school but at my role, i peruse documents in chinese and liaise with the China market. Gosh, it is another level totally and I am struggling even now...

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    1. Good grief, Germany is a big country? Like seriously WTF? Russia is even a bigger country, the biggest in the world, why didn't you learn Russian? But yes, I always have the dilemma about what to do when my mother spouts bullshit - cos she does it at an alarming rate and I either shut my mouth and let it pass or if I try to correct her, she gets defensive etc and I am really not looking for a fight.

      And wildcard, technology is great - I use technology to read Chinese documents for me (either translated to English or out aloud in Chinese) and I never type in Chinese with pinyin, I use a voice to text converter to get my Chinese emails out: I speak into my computer or phone and out comes the text in Chinese characters. As long as I speak slowly and clearly, it is usually okay.

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  6. Honestly, I think that the majority of my Chinese teachers back in Singapore were just lousy as hell. They made us all go through the rote learning method of approaching the language, forcing down whole words and essays down our throats up till the 'A' levels. At the end of it, does it make us better learners of Chinese? Nope, not at all.

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  7. Hi Limpeh,

    Do you have any recommendations with regard to the conversion of Mandarin to English software?

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