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| Why do Singaporeans want to take this route then? |
Nice countries in the West only want very highly skilled migrants, not uneducated losers.
Need I state the obvious? If you want to move to a country like Australia for example, you need to score enough points on their immigration system in order to even secure a work permit. They only want highly skilled migrants who can contribute to their economy, not losers who can't even build a decent career in their home countries. So if you're a fully qualified doctor, sure, no problem, you can move to any country you like. But if you're a loser who can't find a job, then no country in the world would offer you any kind of residency. Indeed, in light of the election of president Trump and Brexit, immigration to the UK and US has become a lot harder for those who are not extremely highly skilled or fabulously wealthy. Sure there are loopholes in the system - many Filipino nurses have secured British citizenship simply by working many years in our NHS system and you can always do the "Mrs Trump" route: simply marry someone from the country of your choice but make sure that s/he is rich enough to support you, don't marry a penniless loser or you will get locked out of the immigration system (reference: the Irene Clennell deportation case).
But wait, if you are a highly skilled professional, then...
Highly skilled professionals earn a lot of money - oh yeah, with a lot of money, you can have a very good life in Singapore. You can live in a very nice condo, go shopping in the nicest places in town, dine in the finest restaurants everyday and take plenty of holidays to exotic Asian locations. Long weekend in Boracay anyone? If you fall ill, just go to a private clinic at Gleneagles or Mt Elizabeth hospital. If you earn that much money, then you will simply treat your CPF payments as just another tax that you have to pay. Those very rich Singaporeans who have a very high standard of living in Singapore really have little to complain about - it would be those who are struggling to make ends meet, living with their parents in a crowded HDB flat even into their 40s who do have a bone to pick with the government. So the people who most want to leave are the ones least able to leave: the ones most able to leave are the ones with the least incentive or reason to want to leave Singapore. I suspect the people on HWZ-EDMW belong to the latter group.
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| Those who have the most reason to least are least able to. |
And even if you do leave...
Say you do get yourself into a trade that will help you obtain a work permit to work in the West, you have to work several years there before you can even apply for permanent residency status or citizenship. For the UK, after working 5 years here, you can apply for permanent residency status and after 7 years, you can apply for citizenship. In Australia, you need to work there for 4 years to get PR then another one year to get citizenship (so that's 5 years in total for Australia). In the US, it takes a lot longer than that. But say you take the UK route, after having worked 7 years in the UK in a highly skilled profession, in that time, you would have a useful network of professional contacts - clients, potential employers, former and current employees, colleagues, other useful contacts who are vital to your career. By the same token, after having been away from Singapore for 7 years, you would have lost contact with most of the useful people in your professional circle. Social media makes it a bit easier these days of course, but it is hard to keep a relationship meaningful from several time zones away. Returning to Singapore after a prolonged absence of 7 years make it incredibly hard to re-enter the job market in an Asian society where relationships (aka 关系) are so important - you're practically starting from scratch all over again after such a long absence; not to mention you're giving up a meaningful, useful network of professional contacts built up in the last 7 years in the UK. Thus those who have left tend to stay in their new country of choice for that very practical reason: you don't want to sabotage your career by starting all over again in Singapore after a period of prolonged absence. And by the same token, if you are sincere about building a solid career in Singapore, why would you want to spend such a long time away from Singapore?
It is far harder to carve a career so many time zones away.
I came to the UK as a scholar back in 1997 - upon graduation, I wanted to stay on in the UK and get a job - oh boy, now compare what I went through to what my sisters went through. My sisters were able to harness the full network of our entire family including older cousins and their friends to use their connections to secure interviews and negotiate pay deals through back channels. I had none of that as a foreigner in the UK and my friends at university were no help - it was infinitely harder for me to get my first job than my sisters in Singapore who managed to get their first jobs through our extended family network. Heck, when my sister fell ill during her time at NUS, the entire family took such good care of her. When I became hospitalized with a serious eye infection in my first term at university, I was completely on my own. Need I state the obvious? If you think life in the West is easy, you're completely wrong - life in Singapore isn't perfect but at least you do have the precious support of your extended family if you ever needed help. Such is the Asian culture there, you can always rely on your family and your friends - well, I had to start from scratch in the UK and it was through sheer determination and a lot of luck that I have become as successful and rich as I have today. If you can't make it in Singapore where you grew up, surrounded by the support network of extended family, don't even think about starting afresh abroad. Reality check please: learn to crawl before you think about running.
I don't think most Singaporeans even have the slightest clue how complex and difficult it is to emigrate to the West! It is a process that often takes many, many years. Even if you do marry a national from that country, you're still not guaranteed residency there. Some Singaporeans probably imagine it is as simple as filling up a couple of forms and then you get your passport on arrival; whereupon they can get on the next flight back to Singapore as a foreigner - no it does not work like that at all. Sure there are some countries who are selling citizenship to very rich investors, but you usually need to invest a lot of money in that country before they will hand you a passport. That is a route taken by rich Chinese and Russian millionaires keen to start a new life abroad, but unless you're a millionaire, you can forget it. US$250,000 gets you a St Kitts & Nevis passport, but spend a bit more and you can get a Maltese passport at 1.15 million euros (and hey, Malta is in the EU). But if you are that rich, then life in Singapore would be pretty sweet. So it is really not a question of whether or not you can return to live/work in Singapore as a foreigner, but rather why you would do that? Either you like Singapore (in which case, just take the good with the bad and get on with life there) or leave and don't return. Leaving and then making a U-turn simply makes no sense at all, why would you do that?
And if you don't like Singapore, the answer is obvious.
Sure there are plenty of reasons why you may not be happy in Singapore, I have written a long piece on that already - the answer then is pretty simple and obvious: just leave and seek greener pastures elsewhere. You may enjoy living in a different country, working in a totally different culture - a change of scene may be exactly what you need to feel happier. So many Singaporeans have done that, left and settled elsewhere - once they have happily put down their roots in another country, they promptly forget about ever returning to Singapore. After all, why would you give up a happy, successful life in your new country only to return to Singapore where you are never guaranteed that you will achieve the same level of success? And by the same token, if you are indeed happy and successful in Singapore, then why would you want to leave in the first place? It just doesn't make much sense at all to establish yourself successfully in another country over a period of like 5 to 7 years, only to give it all up to return to Singapore as a foreigner. It makes no sense - I did it for a short while in 2011 but only because the company I was working for then sent me there for a short stint. I certainly did not 'return' to Singapore, hell no. Companies do send employees abroad for a period from time to time - it really isn't that uncommon. I just happened to have been sent to work in Singapore for the company (a Luxembourg based company - I stress they were a European not a Singaporean company) for a while, that's all. That doesn't tantamount to 'returning' to Singapore. I spent a few months in Singapore then promptly returned to London.
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| What have you got to gain by staying in Singapore when you're not happy? |
Making your mind up really isn't that hard.
Given the amount of time it takes to obtain PR status in another country, you have to spend quite a few years working there as an expatriate. After a few years there (4 years in Australia, 5 years in the UK), then you can apply to get PR status. But by then, surely you'll have a very good idea whether or not life in your new country is working out for you. You probably wouldn't spend 20 years being married to someone before realizing, oh shit this isn't working out, s/he isn't right for me and then you get a divorce - nor would you spend 10 years working in a company before realizing you're utterly miserable there and only then do you think about looking for a new job. You will have a very good idea whether you are happy or not, it's not the kind of complex question you need to spend years searching for the answer. Imagine you're at the stage of your life whereby you've worked abroad for a few years after having grown up in Singapore, if I were to ask you the questions, "where would you be happier? Do you want to return to Singapore or settle down for good in your new country? Are you happy with your life now or do you want to return to Singapore?" These aren't hard questions to answer - making your mind up based on these simple questions about your happiness is actually really quite simple. Either you are happy in Singapore and want to grow old there, or you say, no I would rather be living abroad. It is one of the other - returning to Singapore as an expatriate is just quite bizarre.
There is little (if anything) to be gained by returning to Singapore.
Why would one want to return to Singapore after working a few years abroad anyway? Let me tell you about my friend Mr D (one of my readers here in fact) - he gave up a good job in America to return to Singapore because his mother has been diagnosed with cancer. He wanted to spend more time with her as she was undergoing treatment - that's a totally understandable and quite noble decision on his part. He suffered a lot from the decision and is worse off than he was in America - having left behind a valuable network of professional contacts in the US, he is now doing a job that he is overqualified for and earning a lot less than in the US (not to mention longer working hours). Furthermore, he no longer can afford a car in Singapore and lives in a much smaller flat than when he was in America. Financially and economically, he is worse off in every single way than in America and of course he was aware of the high price to pay to return to Singapore. I suppose as a filial son with a good relationship with his mother, he is willing to give up a much better, much more comfortable life in America just to be with her in this difficult time. But if you take his mother out of the equation, then it would make no sense at all for Mr D to want to return to Singapore when you have everything to lose and nothing to gain? Mr D was willing to suffer the consequences of returning to Singapore just for his mother.
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| Mr D had a terribly hard decision to make. |
You're looking at this the wrong way round.
We all want a better life of course. We want to earn more money, we want job security, we want to be well liked, we want to be happy and successful, we want a good work-life balance, we not only want to be rich but have the time to spend that money doing fun things like going on nice holidays rather than working so had you have no time to even see your friends. Would getting another citizenship and then returning to work in Singapore somehow give you everything you want? No, clearly, it wouldn't. The fact is so many of the factors that determine how successful you are lie in your very own hands: you cannot depend on the government of your country to make you successful. No, you have to make yourself successful and take responsibility for your own destiny. You can find rich people in the poorest countries in Africa, you can also go to somewhere like Japan or Switzerland and still find poor people struggling to make ends meet. Simply changing your nationality isn't going to fundamentally change your fate: if you really want to do something to improve your lot in life, then let's talk about more pragmatic issues like your education, your training, how you can get a better job, how you can earn more money and get that promotion. Of course, those are bloody difficult issues - simplifying it to one's nationality is naive because you then expect things to magically get better once you arrive in another country. I have just written a long piece about how screwed the poor, working class in the UK are - the grass really isn't greener on the other side of the fence, how green your patch of grass is depends on you.
Okay so that's it from me on this topic. My final advice is for you guys to seek proper, professional advice instead of wasting your time talking to people on those forums. I am just appalled at people who pass off half-truths and hearsay as 'advice' on these forums when they really have no freaking clue what the facts are and they just continue to mislead each other - I can only shake my head in despair when I look at the quality of the discussion on this topic. Good grief. Never mind the broken English, the fact is so much of the information about immigration rules are available online on government websites - instead of trying to seek answers online, why not turn turn to Google and look up the information you need from a reliable source? That forum page was nothing short of the blind leading the blind, people who don't know what they are talking about confusing each other. Is it too much to ask you young people to use Google to look up the facts? Do leave a message and please let me know what you think. Many thanks for reading.
Perhaps Singaporeans are confused by jaundiced newspaper reports about unskilled immigrants from North Africa and Mid East failing to integrate into European societies, and yet still receiving generous welfare
ReplyDeleteLet me try to do a quick reply to that - though it is probably something that I could write a lot on. There was a time when Europe badly needed cheap labour in boom times to do work that white Europeans wouldn't do, so they got cheap labour from elsewhere. These people came, worked, became citizens and their second generation (who are born here in Europe) are still poorly integrated and receiving welfare - you can't get rid of them once they are naturalized and their parents did spend decades slogging, doing dirty, hard work for very little money for a long time to get citizenship. In the UK for example, these include say Pakistanis who came here to the UK in their droves in the 1960s and 1970s.
DeleteThen there are refugees of course, but apart from Amos Yee, how many refugees are there from Singapore?
Ah! So its a fuck up on the part of European governments, and immigrants are being scapegoated!
DeleteAnother point i would like to add is that some of these moaners on forums are not just poorly sklled but poorly connected. Basically they are the sort of wallflowers who lack the ability or fail to put in the effort into networking. Even if by some miracle they can immigrate, they would need a second miracle to successfully integrate into an alien culture.
ReplyDeleteYou're spot on there.
DeleteWhy is it some people refuse to network?
DeleteMy pet theory for Singaporeans at least, is that a large number of people still have a kampung mentality, they expect a supportive community to be right at their doorstep, and fail to see a world beyond their tiny village
I might be stepping into a thorny issue here, but the "support of extended family" can cut both ways. Sure, they will take care of you if you should need help, but the flip side of it is that often it comes with a sense of overprotectiveness and cloying and expecting you to forever be in their debt for helping you out, and seeing you sort of lesser for having depended on them in their time of need. Kind of like a "martyr" or "savior" complex where they get off on feeling superior to you because they have helped you. Especially if it involves mental health issue. Then, Oh boy. If this has not been your experience, that is great and feel free to ignore my comment.
ReplyDeleteAsian extended families sometimes foster co-dependent mentality where you end up lacking confidence in your ability to fend for yourself in a more independent setting. So if anyone is in a situation where they have always received help and support from their family, but would like to try to make it in a new place further afield, don't let this deter you - you may be stronger and more capable than you think. You never know until you challenge yourself.
You can start with baby steps - solo traveling and holidays, short stints abroad, etc. You can pick a place where there are many Chinese and Asian immigrants with varying degrees of assimilation so it doesn't seem so foreign, yet you are still spreading your wings. The major Canadian cities come to mind as particularly friendly to new Chinese immigrants.
On a completely different note, a lot of the rich people in African countries and other poor countries are involved in really shady dealings, which is how they are rich off the backs of the poor in their country. Then again, what can we say about the rich in Singapore, or US for that matter, hmmm.
I agree that it doesn't really make sense as a long-term plan to take another citizenship just for the purpose of moving back. Maybe if that's where life takes you, but it doesn't really work as a plan as you would have to invest a lot of time building your life in another country only to abandon it to come back.
Hi Stargazr, as you know from my blog, I am not close to my parents at all, though I am quite close to my sisters. But anything beyond my sisters - like would I turn to my cousins for help? Unlikely, why would I do that when I'm not close to them? I would feel awkward to say the least. I'd rather turn to friends I'm a lot closer to.
DeleteLike I said, I think a lot of the people on HWZ-EDMW have no freaking clue just how many years it takes to obtain citizenship in another country. They probably think you can fill up a form online and get it the next day - when in the UK, for example, it is a process that takes 7 years. That's enough to for you to make up your mind whether you're happier in the UK or no, you prefer to return to Singapore. If you prefer to return to Singapore, then fine, just do so as a Singaporean citizen. I remember the unease over the return of HK to Chinese control in 1997 - with many HKers taking Canadian and other citizenship just in case Beijing destroys HK in the following years, they wanna hedge their bets given the uncertainty HK was facing. That I can kind understand, but most who left just never ever returned once they happily settled elsewhere.
But does having another passport improve your lot in life? I don't think so! Highly skilled rich professionals have a different kind of 'passport' - ie. their skills enable them to get work anywhere in the world, so that by-passes the whole work permit/passport quagmire. If say, you're a highly qualified brain surgeon, pick the country you want, any country, and you'll have no problem getting work there. So why are these Singaporeans focusing on nationality/passports rather than SKILLS?
When I said "you" I meant "you" in the general sense, not just you Limpeh but anyone who may be reading my comment. I know enough about your family situation to know that you weren't receiving help from any family members.
DeleteI just wanted to comment on your statement "If you can't make it in Singapore where you grew up, surrounded by the support network of extended family, don't even think about starting afresh abroad." Some people's extended family might not be supportive, or they might be overprotective and codependent. So in that case, even if you haven't "made it" in Singapore, doesn't mean that you shouldn't try living abroad. Maybe the person's extended family might be holding him back and getting away from them might allow him to thrive more.
I do agree with you though that ultimately it is up to the person himself to gain the skills needed for improving his life. Both job skills as well as skills in managing your own life and relationships. Because at the end of the day the buck stops with you. Even if you had a magic wand and could immediately transform into another country citizen, you would still need to put in the work to establish your life there.
Well, I don't want to seem like I am completely ungrateful: my parents did bring me up in the sense that they provided a roof over my head, paid for my school fees until I got my first scholarship at the age of 16, you know, they bought me clothes, food ... But like so many Asian parents, there was no emotional connection whatsoever. No attempt to get to know me as an adult - I remember once my sister did something to make me cry and instead of asking me why I was crying, my mother flew into a rage, started throwing things around the room and wildly hitting my sister and I like an uncontrolled mad, wild beast, screaming like a deranged lunatic: oh it was all about my mother, like she wasn't interested in what her children were going through, it was all about us being ungrateful, stupid, awful children who didn't give her any peace. My father is just as shitty when it came to parenting, I remember once I was upset about something and was he interested in why I was upset? No, he reacted the same way my mother did - threw things, hit people in the room, screamed at the top of his lungs like a man lunatic and it was scary. Sufficed to say that people who are as autistic as my parents have no ability... no mental capacity to even contemplate the basics of parenthood when it comes to any kind of emotional connection with their children. That's why from a young age I learnt to say nothing to my parents, told nothing my parents and the moment I got my scholarship, I knew I had my ticket out of Singapore. When I got a job and announced I was never returning to Singapore, my mother - LOL - was actually shocked and couldn't believe it and my sisters, who actually did pay a lot of attention to me (when my useless parents didn't bother) knew exactly why I wanted to leave Singapore but my parents just had no freaking clue. Like where do I even begin? Do you have any idea to have parents who are so off the scale in their autism? It is a serious mental disability I swear. But yeah, thanks to that, I never really thought about relying on my family - but to be fair, my sisters have benefited a bit from our cousins in Singapore who have been very nice and kind to them.
DeleteSorry I am ranting again.
Alex, asian parents have a tendency to reject their children's emotions.. and think shaming their children is good way to motivate them. Baffling.
DeleteSorry, didn't mean to derail the thread. It's ok. I believe it is at least in part about different expectations of parenting in Singapore, or maybe just old-school parenting in general. The "tough love" mentality, that you need to discipline your children harshly or they will end up going down the wrong path. This is also where the close-knit Asian communities can cut both ways. When you become a parent, all your extended family and friends are all up in your business ALL THE TIME, offering unsolicited advice and bringing up a million ways you are doing things wrong. For someone who is impressionable and care a lot about what people think of them, ie Your parents, this will no doubt affect and stress them out a lot, hence their lashing out at you and your sisters. It's sad. The best thing to do is to tune out the unsolicited advice and judgement of others and just focus on what needs to be done to meet their children's basic needs - I suspect you parents never managed to fully grasp that.
DeleteSometimes I wonder if it is actually true that your parents have absolutely no interest in you. Yes, I agree that their experiences and ability to understand your life is very limited. But I recall you mentioning a scenario whereby you told you parents that you never use Chinese in your working life, and your mum countered by saying that, maybe it will one day come in useful, you never know. I know you took that to mean that she was ignoring that fact that you said it isn't and would never be useful to you. But an alternative way of parsing what she said could be taken to mean that she hopes that Chinese which is the language that she and your family speaks and that she taught to you, might someday be useful, and that she actually managed to teach you something that helps you in your professional life. As you said yourself, as primary school teachers, they don't understand the complexities of your job and probably couldn't teach you any technical skills required to do your job, but at least they want to feel like they passed on to you something of value.
Just a thought.
And you know me, I enjoy telling my parents that whatever they taught me is totally useless. The more they try to make that point, the more I reject it: I gave my mother a long hard stare, sighed and said, "you didn't listen to a word I said, did you? I am going to repeat it one more time and please listen. Chinese isn't useful to me in my work today. And if you actually bothered to find out anything about I do for a living, then you won't be claiming it could be useful. Next time please listen to what I say before just saying the first thing that comes to your mind."
Delete@ Alex Hahahahah! Recently I have been telling my mum to use her brain... and the reason people like her can't has been highlighted by
Delete@ Stargazr
your last sentence mentioned "they want to feel"
You see thats my gripe with old folks here. Theres this babyish immaturity about them. They want to feel good rather than do good. When they don't get their way they throw tantrums likes toddlers. Why not work hard to actually listen and fulfil your childrens needs, and then u can feel genuines satisfaction? Instead of taking a lazy cowards way out and passing all the responsiblity for your happiness to your children? just my 2 cents
@LChen - and that is why I find it hard to have any kind of relationship with my parents because they are exactly as you've described.
DeleteAlex I am sad to hear of what you went through as a child. It was very scary for you. Now you know you are in a better place.
Delete@L Chen Most people want to feel good. In order to actually derive satisfaction from your relationships you need to know how to make people like you, which is taking interest in the life and needs and preferences. Some people are better at it than others. Or maybe, no one is actually good at it, but some are actually particularly bad.
What do all of you plan to do when your parents are old and need assistance in living? Maybe if the child is meant to be the main caregiver, the parent starts to slip into the role of needing to be cared for as he/she ages, so that the transition will not be so drastic. I mean between being totally independent and then suddenly needing your child to feed and bathe you. Mag d
Hi Limpeh,
DeleteI'm going to side track a little from the main topic.
I read your blog once in a while, and have noticed that distance you have with your parents. I believe the term that you wanted to use wasn't "autistic", as that would have given people who are truly autistic too much of a negative connotation.
I too, have parents who possess similar Asian parenting attitudes. However, unlike you, I don't have the opportunity to avoid living with them as of yet so it has been quite dreadful to say the least. I have been reading up a lot about this sort of parenting. Apparently, there's such a psychological term as "narcissistic parenting", which is also a phenomenon that occurs more within the Asian communities. Perhaps you might be interested to find out more.
Anyway thanks for reading! I find your blog interesting, and I would really like to know what you have to say about the ongoing Lee saga.
Hi GL, allow me to present two very different sides of the coin to you.
DeleteOn one hand, yes there is an element of me quite conveniently simplifying the behaviour of my parents: yes my parents are horrible to me and my siblings - but it is okay, they have a medical condition, a mental disability so that's their excuse and the reason why I forgive them for the horrible things they have done (and continue to do). It is a simple narrative that allows me to get on with life without feeling bad about all the shit that has happened. Am I guilty of perhaps bending the truth so I sleep better at night? Yes, there is an element of that, sure.
Here's the other side of the coin.
I have met narcissistic, arrogant, selfish, nasty people. I have even worked with them over the years. That's not my parents. I am not going to censor my words: even if my parents are not autistic, they are at least guilty of being quite low IQ - or in so many words, stupid. OMFG, they are so unbelievably stupid, let's add to that stubborn, ignorant and that's the worst combination: someone who is arrogant and stupid at the same time. My father is hopeless - good grief, he is so fucking ignorant and uneducated yet he thinks he is the smartest person around and he spouts the most ignorant, uninformed bullshit unapologetically. And don't get me started on the total absence of any kind of social skills...
You know, your attitude reminds me of an incident in my secondary school. I had a classmate who didn't come to school because he had a fever and his mother wrote a note to explain the situation - the teacher refused to accept the note because it wasn't an official MC from a doctor. You're like that teacher - you're refusing to accept my explanation without an official diagnosis from a doctor. Who cares what the official diagnosis may be of my parents' condition - it doesn't change the way they behave and there's no cure I'm afraid.
Even if you wanna give me an alternative explanation, this narcissistic parenting theory - so what? Would my interest in it change the way my parents behave towards me and my siblings - hell no. They are monsters and me giving them a different label doesn't change anything. If you know how to turn them into more reasonable, sensible people, then let me know - but you're certainly not offering a solution. Yeah I know my parents are fucking awful - you're not telling me anything I don't know already.
And as for the Lee family saga, no I don't want to write a piece on it. That is a rich family having a spat, it doesn't have any effect on the vast majority of the population, on ordinary people. So I am ignoring it.
DeleteSo these people think it is that easy to get a citizenship elsewhere? I think they should ask themselves why they are not succeeding in Singapore in the first place.
ReplyDeleteExactly. They have no idea.
Delete@Di Oh, im sure they know the answer.
DeleteThe 'system' is to blame of course! 🤣
Blame the system. Blame foreign talents. Blame the government. How about taking a hard look at themselves? If it is money they want, guess what? It isn't easy to make money overseas if you already lack the skills to make money in Singapore. If it is quality of life they want, then should they succeed in obtaining citizenship elsewhere, why return to Singapore to work? It's a kiasu herd mentality. "Ohhhhh! Look how well the foreign talents are living. How can I get a pie of that pie?" How? By being smarter, twits!
DeleteThey also like to blame the 70% for voting for the same government. Quite a number of them are anti government. Just look at Han Hui Hui, Roy and Amos just to name a few.
DeleteRoy in particular sounds paranoid & narcissistic. i wonder how many proven experts he actually consulted to reach his conclusions. i guess hes here to deliver his revelation of the PAP is screwing you, and that im here to save you.
DeleteReal humble fellow, isn't he?
i think we have very real problems in Singapore, i don't think this buffoon or most of these ugly critics are highlighting any of them.
Of course thats why i don't read their blogs. I read THIS blog. Limpeh Makes much more sense (& money!)
I choose to pick my battles in life mate. I don't like the way things are in Singapore but unlike Roy Ngerng, I don't believe that I can change the way things are in Singapore. He has a Messiah-complex.
DeleteHaha, I have been praying hard for my company to not send me back to Singapore if they start a new venture in Singapore. After all the efforts I took to leave and to be sent back again. That is going to be slightly demoralizing for me.
ReplyDeleteYou are talking about HWZ and ST which cater to Singapore's lowest common denominator. They are the UK's equivalent of Daily Mail and Sun readers. Why bother trying to educate them? They are just going to shout to the Sun and get back to their bigoted lives.
ReplyDeletehi limpeh,What does it like to work and Stay in USA.
ReplyDeleteThat's a dumb question. If you have a good job, then you'll earn a LOT of money, you'll have a beautiful house, dine in fine restaurants, shop in designer boutiques, take loads of wonderful holidays and have a fabulous life.
DeleteIf you have a shit job, then you'll be exhausted from working long hours, live in a shitty little flat that is unsafe, uncomfortable and noisy, struggle to make ends meet, you can't afford to buy nice clothes or good food - life will be miserable.
Don't you get it? What I said applies to any country in the world, including Singapore.
It is not the country that matters, it is the job you have and how rich you are. You want a good life? Make sure you earn loads of money.
Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money.
Get it?
Money.
Studies have shown that after a certain threshold, say around $150K in the US, increased income does not actually improve life happiness. Guys on Wall Street are rolling in it but they work 24/7, have no time to do anything, are divorced, etc. It's extremely rare to find a job that pays a lot of money AND allows you the time to enjoy all of said money. If Money is your key to happiness, you're probably screwed unless you were born independently wealthy.
DeletePerhaps I spoke too soon. Yes, it seems like you have managed to earn loads of MONEY and are at a point where you are can cut back and retire and enjoy said MONEY. So I suppose it is not impossible to find a great job, if you have qualifications, skills, and also a bit of luck.
DeleteNo Stargazr, it is not that straight forward. Let's put it this way, there are certain jobs whereby you can earn more money only by working harder for longer hours. Take a laksa hawker for example selling laksa at a hawker centre - if he wants to make more money, then he has to sell more bowls of laksa everyday, but that would mean working longer hours, more preparation involved, staying open longer to serve more customers. Sure he can earn more, but the increased income would come at a cost in terms of the number of hours in his day spent working instead of say, relaxing with his family.
DeleteBut in my case, it is a quite different: I am a sales & distribution specialist. I have spent the last few months working my butt off to set up distribution channels, but once they are set up, the income flows with very little input on my part (as I get a cut of whatever investments I generate for my company through my distribution network).
Think of me as a fruit farmer: when I first plant the trees, I work my butt off caring for the young fruit trees, protecting them from everything from wind to harsh sun to hailstones to insects. I earn nothing whilst the trees are slowly growing to maturity then comes the day when the trees finally bear fruit. I then take my bumper harvest of delicious, ripe, sweet fruit to the market and sell it for a lot of money.
You see, for the fruit farmer, the amount of money he earns per year doesn't have a linear equation with the amount of hours he works a year. When the trees are mature and fruiting regularly, he can take it easy and still earn a lot of money from the harvests. When the trees are young, he may earn almost nothing despite working his butt off.
What I do is pretty similar: I have a list on my table and it is my list of distributors and I have 3 main distributors at the moment but I am trying to set up another 10 distribution agreements. Let's just say I am a fruit farmer with 3 trees bearing fruit whilst I'm struggling to get another 10 to that stage.
I fully intend to work my butt off for the next 12 months and then just relax as I earn a 6-figure salary, whilst doing very little - just like a fruit farmer with an orchard full of mature trees.
Sales can be extremely lucrative.
Neon, how would Alex know about working and living in the US? If you really want to know, talk to many people who actually work and live in the US. Even then, everyone 's experience is different. A store clerk would say a different thing from a university professor.
DeleteAs Alex said, if you can make beaucoup money, life is good in the US AND anywhere else in the world.
How do I earn a lot of Money? And is there any strategy to earn more?
DeleteAs for earning a lot of money, I am going to write more about it soon.
DeleteBut there are no short cuts. If you are a young student and wanna have a career that will make you rich, then you should try to get straight As that will get you a scholarship into Oxford/Cambridge - that would almost guarantee that you will be offered a highly lucrative job before you even graduate. Likewise, if you end up in some dead-end loser ITE type training institute, then fine, you will get a skill that will enable you to get a job, sure. But will that make you rich? Of course not. You'll be battling against the odds all your life, how would you like to go through life with the odds stacked against you? It is so much easier to be successful when the odds are in your favour.
I know how old you are Neon, so it all boils down to what career path you take and certain career paths are only open to you if you have the right education. So if you want to become a lawyer, then you need to get a law degree from one of the top universities that will enable you to practice law in Singapore. You can't end up with some crappy ITE qualification then come to me and ask me how to earn more money, I'll just take one look at your qualification and tell you that you're condemned to being poor all your life - you should have studied harder at school and have gone to a good university.
Like I said before, if you're after a simple solution, I haven't got that for you. It is hard to make a lot of money. There's no magic wand I can wave to make piles of cash magically appear.
Oh ok but i also have another question. Why would a company in Singapore hire a foreigner rather than a local?
Delete@Di - he's asking me because he's a kid in Singapore who clearly doesn't know anyone who has worked in America and has no one else to turn to. You're being a bit too harsh on him lah. At least he's asking questions, rather than wallowing in ignorance, right?
Delete@Neon - I have already written a piece about it recently: https://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/bad-bosses-cheap-labour-and-cutting.html that addresses the issue of Singaporean companies hiring foreigners.
I have a lot of question to tell you but hopefully you are not so disrupt about it. Does school really help me with my education And knowledge?
DeleteIf you are smart enough to connect the dots by yourself from the knowledge you're receiving (I'm not) sure though typically it's family and older friends who are able to advise you on the various contexts where that information could be applied.
DeleteWhen you get up to the higher institutions like high school and colleges, it becomes less about what you're learning in class and more about knowing your classmates and forging connections. Ivy League schools have excellent professors and resources that could teach you a great deal don't get me wrong but the Ivy League degree only matters on the first job after that experience and connections counts more. That friend that you played soccer with or always had lunch with would feel much more comfortable working with you than a faceless resume.
Does that mean school is useless? Well, your future employer really has no clue about your ability to prosper in the workplace unless he hires you for a few months and finds out but he can't do that for all the hundreds of applicants applying for the job that's a tremendous waste of resources and time. Just 1 destructive applicant can really hurt the company. So a degree from a prestigious institution like Oxford or Cambridge serves as a stamp of approval for the employer so that he could at least have confidence that you have a level of competency and intelligence or you wouldn't have gotten in in the first place.
That's why rich families attempt to pay their way for their children to get into those universities even if their kids are dumb as a rock (George Bush Jr). They get a leg up on life over everyone else with the degree.
In summary, yes it does. But education and knowledge while definitely useful is not as helpful as having good social skills and the ability to connect with everyone around you (AKA the skill to make people like you). Limpeh might disagree with me but I find that while you may get a head start with that degree you falter with terrible social skills (Won't climb as fast as you should or worse getting stabbed in the back constantly. ) while the opposite may not promise you big bucks having good social skills at least gives you a decent living.
I hate to be blunt, but school is mostly, like 95% useless. Maybe a good degree may help but anything prior to a degree is 95 - 99% useless. Mostly because teachers are idiots. I'm sorry, but my parents were teachers and whilst okay, there is a place for education: we need to teach children how to learn, but that's the very essence of school. Once you can learn a subject - you can learn anything that you need at work. Good learners tend to do well in school and progress onto to go universities, that's why companies like to hire people from good universities because they know the candidate will learn quickly. Whilst people who do poorly at school tend to learn a lot more slowly - but make no mistake, you're just using school to prove that you can learn quickly. The actual subjects you learn are totally useless. Well, 99% of the time they are totally useless. I don't remember much from what I did at school and how can I use something I don't even remember?
DeleteSchool is useless. Don't get me started, teachers often lie to their students about it because they don't know anything about the working world - what do they know about having a real job in the working world when they spend all day in a classroom with kids?
@Bay - do you realize that Neon is an ITE kid from a poor family? Please tailor your answer to someone of his situation. What you said in principle is 100% correct of course, but is it relevant to someone in his situation?
DeleteSchool may be 95% useless but it's supposed to be fun. Or at least more fun than slaving away in the factories or farm for 16 hrs a day which is what kids used to do before the concept of a childhood and education came in. Whether it is really necessary to function in the real world is another question.
DeleteWhy people incur a lot of debt and waste time in school when they are not learning anything? Education has become a status symbol of prestige. If you can afford to get degrees to show of or sponsor your offspring to do so.
Neon: I live in the USA. Some points regarding living in the USA compared to Singapore:
Delete-Unless you live in a big city you NEED to have a car and know how to drive. Even if you live in a big city, with a few exceptions like New York City, it is still far advantageous to know how to drive.
-It is normal for people to live far away from their family - Limpeh touched on this earlier in this post. It is considered strange to live with your parents as an adult, even if you are not married. People are expected to strike out on their own and be independent, financially and socially.
-If you are a Chinese Singaporean, and I assume you are, you will be an ethnic minority here in the USA, which will probably feel different to you than being a majority race in Singapore
-There are FAR less cheap and tasty prepared meal options (and even more so outside of urban areas). Nothing that is quite analogous to Singaporean hawker centers and food courts and 24/7 Al-Ameen etc. And forget about authentic Chinese/Malay/Indian food unless you're in an urban or cosmopolitan area. Most people cook or are expected to cook - kitchens here come standard with oven and 4-burner range. This might be changing with takeout food and meal delivery kits on the rise, but it will take a while for supply to catch up with demand.
-People tend to sleep earlier and wake up earlier.
I'll add to this list if anything else comes to mind.
If I'm not wrong, I believe Singaporeans can come to the USA on a visa waiver for up to 3 months. If you can save up money, you can get yourself a room in a cheap hostel or motel or rent a car and see the sights for yourself and maybe have a small taste of what it's like to live in the USA.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
what about the education in the USA?
DeleteOK here's my 5 cents worth: it depends on MONEY. Rich Americans send their kids to expensive private schools where they get an excellent education and enjoy beautiful facilities from gymnasiums to swimming pools. This prepares them for the best universities in the US like Yale, Harvard, MIT and Stanford. All that depends on MONEY.
DeletePoor Americans on the other hand are screwed, they go to awful state schools which are suffering from the chronic lack of investment and this government under Trump is slashing education budgets and the kids from these crap schools will struggle to even make it to university, never mind the good ones.
So we go back to the same theme: do you have MONEY? Are you RICH? Your kid's education in America is going to be amazing if you're very rich. But if you're poor, well, you're fucked.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money.
Money. Money. Money!!
You know, some people claim money can't buy you happiness, but being poor in America sure sucks and will make you fucking miserable. It is no fun being poor anywhere in the world. Money can solve so many of life's problems.
Deletewhy do (Most)people say "Money can't buy us happiness"?
DeleteBecause the alternative would be to admit that it sucks to be poor! A lot of stupid people say a lot of stupid shit. People such as your mother. Just because they say something doesn't mean it is true. Be careful whom you listen to - there are a lot of stupid people out there. Your mother's one of them. She's so stupid, yeah, I just had to remind you how stupid your mother is.
DeleteIt also sucks not being able to DRIVE in America. As a co-worker* from China puts it: "If you don't drive, don't come to America". I have to say, HWZ is the perfectly septic, male (and perhaps, Chinese/majority race) site to troll for life is crap in SG, I wasted 2 years of my life in NS. SGers clearly KENOT differentiate, or for that matter, be critical. We simply weren't allowed to. I'm back after 11 months searching for work. I come back periodically to REMIND myself why I left an iron bowl gig in SG to try and work it out in the US of A.
DeleteI think SGers have been seriously undermined and under-rated by the ruling party and also, ourselves, just like children in a neurotic, self-hating family.
I did consider the whole renouncing SG passport (oh what a gesture that would be!!!) and coming back on EP or even PR. Please lah, dun waste time - go to UAE! But I'd like to keep the SG healthcare - you don't know what you've got until you've encountered the US system.
I sometimes pity Neon, he has ignorant people as his parents. And is unfortunately not equipped with the correct skills or contacts to find answers to his questions. At least LIFT you had good teachers and mentors at VJC but those are usually found at top schools and not basement bottom ones.
ReplyDeletewhat so good about the (Elite)top schools? And how are they different from any other average school?
DeleteAlright here's the honest answer for you. Employers want to hire smart people, clever, intelligent capable people who will be able to learn fast and work well - so we prefer candidates who have gone to excellent schools because they have demonstrated that at least they are capable of working hard, learning fast and doing well at a challenge like getting good grades in an exam. Whereas for those from average schools, we look at them and think, "you're a pathetic loser, if you can't even do well in an exam in school, how the hell are you going to amount to anything in the working world?" So if I see an ITE student, I think, "man if you fucked up so badly as a student, how are you going to succeed as an adult in the working world where everything is so much harder?" If you went to ITE, you may as well have the words IDIOT LOSER tattooed on your forehead.
DeleteQuite simply, the best students go to elite, top schools. Fucking losers like you end up in ITE. Employers want to know whom they are dealing with - an excellent candidate or a total loser.
So, if you have made it into a top, elite school, then an employer would know you're capable, smart, intelligent and a fast learner. If you went to an average school and ended up in ITE, then we know you're stupid, useless, lazy and a total loser incapable of anything.
You've really fucked up your life by ending up in ITE. Good luck to you, you'll need it. Everyone is going to look down on you for the rest of your life.
what about the teachers in (Elite)Top school. Are they different or is it the same thing as the Average school?(for example, the student in Elite school learn about critical thinking).
DeleteNo they are not that different but that's not the point.
DeleteIf you give me a class of super intelligent straight A students from an elite school and ask me to teach them say about finance, then I will find it extremely easy because they are already super intelligent, capable of doing their own research and are fast learners anyway.
But if you give me a bunch of ITE students, they are going to be so stupid that I would not be able to teach them anything useful - if I start explaining complex concepts, they would just stare blankly at me as they are too stupid to understand.
You know the saying, "you can't make shit shine?" A teacher is not a magician, a teacher cannot make a stupid ITE student intelligent. Even the best teacher in the world cannot deliver such a miracle. There's no magic pill to miraculously increase the IQ of a stupid person. Likewise, don't give the teachers from the top schools too much credit - the super intelligent students do a lot of the learning on their own.
It is far less to do with the teachers and far more to do with the students.
Also, students from elite schools are able to analyze issues and perform 'critical thinking' because they are naturally intelligent. This is not something that the teachers need to teach them - it is a skill that they already have. Please don't give the teachers credit for that - the students deserve a lot more credit. Stop worshiping the teachers as if they are so great - I went to some of the best schools in Singapore and I encountered some terrible teachers there. But fuck them, I was naturally intelligent anyway so I didn't need that much help.
Deletehahah, i think teachers do enjoy taking credif from smart students and blaming poor ones. Really a teacher should polish gems, and better those who are less talented - as long a kid isn't retarded they should achieve minimum proficiency in math and reading. The fact that some straight A students graduate only to waste their talent in rubbish jobs
Deleteand that i have also met so many people with gaps in basic literacy despite having spent so many years in education, goes to show how bloody incompetent some of our teachers were.
@Di Just saw this youtube video by a well known conservative channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
ReplyDeleteDo you have any critique on his views? I know even in Singapore where you pay full fares the waits at A&E or ER can take several hours unless you are priority 1.
@choaniki: the guy is an idiot. The Canadian healthcare system is not perfect, but it is a good one. The idiot in the video obviously had an agenda. It was to discredit the system, so he sought to highlight the problems.
Delete1. Healthcare in Canada is not free. We pay a premium in most provinces. I know that in Manitoba, it was free. Anyway, to use British Columbia's current as an example, I pay an affordable premium further subsidized by my employer. My husband's previous employer used to cover the entire premium. Many companies do. Those falling below a certain income level pay a discounted premium or no premium. For the latter group, healthcare is free.
2. We have always had family doctors no matter which province or city we lived in. My current doctor has known us for more than 20 years.
3. Family doctors are not open on Sundays. Why should they? Do you want to work on Sundays and public holidays?
4. There are walk-in clinics everywhere. A few of them are even opened on Sundays. They will see you for your current ailment and ask you to make an appointment with your family doctor for follow-ups and chronic/serious conditions.
4. Just walking in to any family clinic and demanding to see a doctor is stupid. Yes, many family doctors are no longer taking in new patients. Many are looking for new patients. Call around before you drop in looking for a family doctor. The video was made in Quebec ~2009. Each province has different shortage of doctors issues at different periods of time. Yes, you may have to drive to the suburbs or another city to find a family doctor. That doesn't sound as inconvenient as it may seem. For example, my family doctor is two cities away and only 20-30 minutes depending on traffic.
5. Emergency rooms at hospitals are notoriously busy especially during after office hours and weekends. Name me a city where the emergency rooms are not busy.
6. The stupid guy had a sprained wrist from skateboarding. He was not a priority. There are always far more serious injuries to tend to at emergency. When I had a serious sprained ankle with swelling the size of a tennis ball, I had to wait 2 hours at emergency. For minor sprains that could wait, I made an appointment to see my family doctor. Usually he will request an x-ray which can be done at an x-ray/ultrasound facility. There are many such places in each city.
7. I get a panel of blood tests done every year (FREE!). Again, it is had through my family doctor. Why would you go to a hospital clinic and insist on a cholesterol test? You need a doctor who can track your health.
8. Some surgeries can take a long time to get scheduled if it is not urgent. My husband had to wait a few months for a hernia operation. Most waits are about 3-6 months long. Luckily, we have never had to have serious operations. Our friends, who have had malignant tumors and cancers and heart conditions were able to have surgeries right away. When I had a begnign tumour removed in my mouth, it was just a few weeks that I had to wait.
Con'td
Delete9. Botched surgeries are rare, and they do make the news. It has nothing to do with the system in Canada. Doctors make mistakes anywhere.
10. If you work, you get private extended health plans that covers massages and prescription drugs and so on. If you don't have extended health plan and are on assistance or a senior citizen, there is a way for you to get Rx at less costs.
11. Idiot in video went in to get a tetanus shot. First of all, you need an appointment. You can see a public nurse for the usual shots. Make an appointment first. I get all my shots from my doctor. First of all, you need to keep track of your shots. Why do you care if you stepped on a rusty nail if your tetanus shot is up to date? I keep track of my family's shots. We go when it's time for new ones. I think tetanus shots are once every 10 years. The guy was outraged when he couldn't get a shot right away. How irresponsible of him not to have had a shot in his system! If he had had shots already, he wouldn't be worried and can wait until the clinic can give him new shots if needed.
12. The sick child --- if your child is getting sick, have an array of the usual over the counter drugs at hand. Yes, emergencies are busy.
13. GST is 5%. PST (Provincial Tax) is 7%. It is NOT tax on the tax. Perhaps in Quebec. I don't know. They rest of the country is not Quebec.
I have lived in Canada for over 30 years. I go to the doctor for all sorts of tests yearly. I make appointments! Trust me, Canada's healthcare system is wonderful. It has room for improvement, but it works for us right now.
Thanks Di! I like to look at things from both points of view so that i don't live in an echo chamber. Now that i know he has an agenda to push i will take future videos from him with a truckload of salt.
DeleteOh, and one more thing: things do seem to be more expensive here. For example, in the video, the guy mentioned Starbucks if I recall. Yes, they are a few cents more. Keep in mind that a US$3.00 cup of latte may be CAD$3.95 because of the exchange. CAD is a tad weaker than the US$. So, we pay more for things here because many products are shipped from the US and Mexico. Food products are particularly more expensive here. When I go to Costco in the States, most items are cheaper. After the exchange though, it's closer to what I pay here. Having said that, wages are higher than in the States. Teachers make more money than in the States. Minimum wage is higher too. Taxes are a tad higher, but we get a better health care system. It all evens out.
Delete@Neon somehow i get the funny feeling u r clever chap just trolling for fun. Or a secret friend of our blogger, helping to keep the conversation irritatingly entertaining
ReplyDeleteanyway i believe that besides financial security, we can also derive a big part of happiness from helping others. But guess what, to help people, you need resources anyway. Your mum is a frog in a well, and like Limpeh said, shes just trying to save face
Well first thanks for calling me clever. And second I need more information
Deletethough. that's why I am asking a lot of question that I can think of.
Alex, you know I don't suffer fools light. Like Chen, Neon is "irritatingly entertaining" at best. Like Chen, I suspect he is a troll.
ReplyDelete