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| Is this Mandarin or is this Chinese? What is the right term? |
Now there is a huge difference between the two: Chinese is a term which covers all the different spoken forms of Chinese, including all the different forms of dialects spoken in China. Depending on your definition of what constitutes a unique dialect, estimates range from about 200 to 8000 dialects in China; with at least 20 different kinds of dialects for Mandarin alone. I could be speaking Hokkien, Cantonese or Hainanese but am still speaking Chinese at the same time. In fact, the distinction is also very clear in Mandarin, for one would use the term 普通话 (Pǔtōnghuà) in China or 國語 (Guóyǔ) in Taiwan. Singaporeans also make the same mistake in Mandarin by refering to the language as 华语 (Huáyǔ) - I can still remember the speak Mandarin campaign (讲华语运动) from the 1980s urging Chinese Singaporeans to 多讲华语，少说方言 (speak more Chinese, speak less dialects).
Certainly, I can see that this confusion has stemmed from the mistake originally made decades ago, but now that we know better, can we at least start using the right terms in both English and Chinese to refer to Mandarin correctly? I feel that this is important because in mislabeling Mandarin as 'Chinese' it gives the wrong impression that Mandarin is somehow the only true and proper form of the Chinese language, whilst other forms of Chinese dialects like Hokkien, Teochew, Hakka, Cantonese, Shanghainese etc are somehow less proper or valid. Now don't get me wrong, I do speak Mandarin and I do recognize the importance of mastering Mandarin (heck, I support the learning of all languages as part of education) but I would also like to give the various different dialects the respect they deserve.
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| What is the right way to describe the language we speak? |
A very common mistake made by Singaporeans is to refer to the various Chinese dialects as just 'dialect' (singular). Allow me to give you an example from another Singaporean blogger (Belmont Lay) here who does blog in very good English but still falls prey to this mistake:
Asked how they felt about the move, the elderly couple manning the shop on a Wednesday afternoon, said — loosely translating from dialect — they were “ecstatic” (or rather, “jin hua hee“).
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| Jin hua hee = very happy |
Now like many younger Singaporeans, I speak English as a first language - furthermore, after spending half my life in Europe, French is my second language - it is way better than my Mandarin which is now my third language. I still speak Hokkien (well I do try my best), but it is quite rusty at best and when I try to speak it, it would come out as a mishmash of Hokkien, Mandarin, Malay and some Singlish. It would be distinctively different from the kind of Hokkien my late grandmother spoke to me as a child, which was a purer form of Hokkien. Younger Singaporeans like Belmont Lay do not use dialects like Hokkien in his everyday life (even if he may have some knowledge of it) - like me, he chooses to express himself primarily in English, which is evident from the fact that like me, he chooses to blog in English and not Chinese. However, for people like my grandparents who speak neither English nor Mandarin, their dialects were not only their first languages, but a vital part of their cultural identity. In blatantly refusing to acknowledge that, you are showing a great deal of disrespect to the older generation of Chinese-Singaporeans.
However, the term 'dialect' (instead of Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew etc) is dismissive on two levels: firstly, it simply lumps all these non-Mandarin versions of Chinese into the same category: the only thing they have in common is the fact that they are not Mandarin. Furthermore, they are certainly not mutually intelligible. It has a sense of "I don't care, I don't give a damn what dialect you're speaking, it isn't important to me, as long as it's not Mandarin, it shall remain the "dialect" won't be named even if I do understand it." I speak Singaporean Hokkien, can just about figure out Teochew and Cantonese but that's just three Chinese dialects out of how many hundreds (or even thousands) of Chinese dialects from China? Can you see how ludicrous it is to use the term 'dialect' when I am speaking Hokkien?
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| Limpeh in Suzhou, China |
If I may, can I state for the record that Mandarin is a foreign language for me. None of my grandparents spoke a word of Mandarin - they spoke a mix of Hokkien, Hakka and Malay. My mother started learning Mandarin as an adult and her Mandarin totally sucks - she is far more comfortable in English, Hokkien and Malay. My Chinese-Malaysian father's first language is Hakka and he became fluent in Cantonese and Malay long before he started learning Mandarin. Nonetheless he has mastered Mandarin to an extremely high standard and thus it is really only my father who has managed to effectively master Mandarin to mother tongue standard - something my mother nor my four grandparents ever managed to do. By that token, my mother tongue(s) really ought to be Hakka, Hokkien and Malay and of the three, I can just about manage Hokkien and Malay. I may be Chinese (well, mostly - for the record I am actually mixed), but I am definitely not descended from Mandarin speakers.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not singling out Mr Lay at all and attacking him - he is merely doing what so many other Singaporeans are doing on a daily basis. Please watch this Youtube video from SPH Razor below and you can see that practically everyone in this piece referred to Mandarin as simply 'Chinese' and few actually named the respective Chinese dialects their parents, choosing instead to reduce it to the incorrect term 'dialect' (singular).
So that's it from me on this topic. Do you use the correct terms when referring to the various forms of Chinese spoken in Singapore? Do you think that using the right terms is important? Do you speak Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese or any other forms of Chinese dialects? Please let me know your thoughts on the issue! Kum siah, dor tseh, thanks!
Hi Alex. Chinese is really a written language and is not in a strict sense referring to the various spoken dialects. China is a vast country. Historically, the various regions and regions that make up modern China were ruled by various warlords and occupied by numerous different tribes and ethnic groups, all with their own spoken tongue and writing systems. After the Qin emperor consolidated his empire, his true unification of the country was in ensuring that only one written form of the language was to be used. There was no telephones, no loudspeakers then. Verbal communication occurred only in proximity and the further you are geographically, spoken tongues become more mutually incomprehensible generally. All distant communications across the vast empire was carried by messengers on horseback. Thus, there was no requirement for people to speak the same language as long as they only had to use the official written language. This written form has persisted. Although the script and the forms have changed over time, the official written language formed the core of what we know as Chinese.
ReplyDeleteMandarin is itself one of several mutually comprehensible northern Chinese dialects. With the founding of the modern republic of China, a decision was made that the spoken form used in the capital of Beijing will be considered the official spoken language. Remember that by the time of the Chinese republic, telephones have already been invented and there was a need that people be able to understand each other even over long distance. This was the event and need that resulted in what we know of as Mandarin. Thus, I write in Chinese but I speak Mandarin. Just like there are different variants of Cantonese (e.g. Pun Yu, Sei Yab, Toi Shan among the Yue dialect 粤语) and Hokkien dialects (Quanzhou, Zhangzhou Way，闽语), the official prestige term "Cantonese" and "Hokkien" actually refers to the spoken forms used in the provincial capitals of Guangzhou and Xiamen. The terms 國語 (Guóyǔ, “national language”) as referred to in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and普通话 (Pǔtōnghuà, ordinary tongue) actually means the same spoken form. The former was the preferred term of the former ruling national republican government (國民政府) as a way to inspire pride in a young republic. Many of the nationalist leaders fled to Hong Kong or Taiwan after being defeated by the communist party and these two autonomous regions have continued to use the traditional written script (繁體字). 普通话 is the preferred term used by the communist party in an ideological move to insist that every Chinese citizen be an ordinary part of the communal society. In a bid to increase literacy, a simplified form of Chinese was implemented by the communist PRC government in the 1950s and 60s (简体字). End of Part I
Part II, continued. For the Chinese diaspora in much of south east asia, we tend to use a creole of different forms due to the mix cultural and ethnic backgrounds and years of close proximity living. Since most ethnic Chinese in this region came predominantly from the two southern coastal provinces of Fujian and Guangzhou, there is a tendency to think that “dialects” referred to the spoken tongues from these provinces. Of course, the local and regional spoken forms in China are all different dialects, unified only in the written form. My grandfather came to Singapore in the 1930’s. He spoke no Mandarin and due to the period of his education, he only used the traditional Chinese script but spoke in pure Teochew. My parents, educated in the 50’s spoke a mish mash of Teochew, Malay, some Cantonese and Hokkien and wrote in traditional Chinese script. Since Teochew and Hokkien both belong to the southern Min (闽南) dialect groups, it is not surprising that the level of mutual comprehensibility is higher than say between Cantonese and Hokkien.
ReplyDeleteAlex, you and I probably only learnt the simplified form and were forced to use Mandarin in school but used a mix of English and dialects at home with some Mandarin and Malay thrown in for good measures. I do think that it was this transition and fusion of various spoken forms that resulted in the creole of what came to be collectively known as “Singlish”. There is no official written form but certainly it is very real and a matter of cultural pride to people living within Singapore and Peninsular Malaysia. The challenge will thus be to know when it is acceptable to use standard spoken English, Mandarin and Malay when communicating verbally with people of different nationalities. Othersie, I suspect that language as a whole is very fluid and will continue to evolve as we absorb new information and new cultural norms. It simply is so fascinating.
Ok end of my overindulgence in the topic of cultural linguistics close to my heart. Wonder why I did formal studies in sciences geez.
Hi Shane. You are preaching to the converted here - but thanks anyway! How do you feel about Singaporeans labelling Mandarin as Chinese?
DeleteActually, I have long given up trying to inform people of this. I suspect that mandarin became synonymous with Chinese mainly because that was the only approved, official form. Dialects were seriously discouraged when I was in primary school and the term for dialects (方言) had rather negative, backward connotations as opposed to official mandarin (華語). My Chinese teachers were adamant though that we read and write in Chinese (中文) as opposed to speaking in Mandarin. I was basically thought that Mandarin was simply the official spoken form selected by both the Beijing govt and the Singapore govt followed suit. I guess those who never considered dialects as really Chinese simply just assumed that Mandarin = spoken Chinese.
DeleteOh I nearly forgot. The Chinese Mandarin conundrum is probably similar to that in German. The standard Hochtdeutsch was originally referring to the official written form of German. Later on, the northern variety of spoken German became the official spoken form. And today, we have the Austrian German, Swiss German and Bavarian German spoken forms but they read and write in Hochtdeutsch standard German. Alex, will you happen to know if what I understood is correct? My spoken German is totally crap although I can still read German readily.
DeleteUrgh, my German is not very good even though you should be able to see my German TV debut here within 24 hours: http://rtl-now.rtl.de/alarm-fuer-cobra-11.php (you want the episode 'Goal')
DeleteHmm will go catch that tomorrow when it should be up and running. If you do a few more shoots in Germany, I bet that German will quickly improve. Practice makes perfect and necessity is the drive for all progress. I was not a Canto speaker and certainly not good with Taiwanese Hokkien but frequent trips and work with HK and Taiwanese folks basically changed that. One side effect is that I actually became a fan of singing Hokkien songs and actually knowing how to read the characters in Hokkien in a karaoke. Try practising German songs maybe? Just a (bad) suggestion :)
DeleteI don't speak any dialect. Growing up I always spoke English at home with my parents. Later on when my father re-married he started speaking Cantonese to the step-mum. Hence i learnt Cantonese from immersion but never actually practised enough to be a fluent speaker. I went on to learn Japanese to a native fluency plus i now mainly communicate with the missus in standard Mandarin.
ReplyDeleteThe best part is my native dialect is supposed to be Teochew but i hardly can speak one word of it. I only know it sounds quite similar to Hokkien which i also don't speak any of.
I think a lot of it boils down to the role of parents & grandparents at home - did your grandparents speak any Mandarin at least and what language did you use to communicate with your grandparents? You see, my dad never bothered teaching me any Hakka and his parents lived in Malaysia, so I have zero knowledge of Hakka - I do remember awkward family gatherings where I was totally reliant on my dad to translate. And then there was my mother's side - sure i can speak English with my mum (which is the default language we use most of the time), but my grandmother is totally Hokkien speaking and that's what we defaulted to at home when grandma was around and my grandmother took care of me when I was a young child (so as to allow my parents to not worry about childcare as they were busy working). So yeah, I spent many years of my childhood in a Hokkien speaking environment, My Hokkien is incredibly rusty today given that i only have my family to speak it with - but it is still there.... somewhere at the back of my head. It's kinda tough holding on to it as really, even when I am in S'pore, everyone just defaults to Mandarin or English. Few Singaporeans wanna speak Hokkien with me.
DeleteSigh, the number of native Teochew speakers is sure shrinking. Teochew and the various forms of Hokkien tongues prevalent in south east Asia all originated from a common ancestral Southern Min (閩南) tongue, thus the phonetics are somewhat similar. As the Teochews migrated further south into the Guangdong province, they became geographically isolated from the rest of Fujian province, thus the spoken forms diverge. The Zhangzhou and Quanzhou (漳州，泉州) forms of Minnan which most SEA hokkien speakers used are the closest to Teochew, thus the level of mutual intelligibility is substantial although the tones are quite different. Personally, I do notice that native Teochew speakers have little problem understanding Hokkien but the converse is less likely. I am using the term Hokkien here very loosely as part of the Minnan group. In conventional terms, Cantonese and Hokkien are actually privilege terms for the spoken forms of the provincial capitals Guangzhou and Xiamen. As the Xiamen spoken form is a mixture of the Quanzhou and Zhangzhou Minnan dialects, we commonly associate "Hokkien" to be the form of Minnan dialect. Of course in truth, the spoken forms in Fujian is diverse. Minbei, Mindong ( e.g. Foochow), Minzhong (e.g. Henghua) are pretty much mutually incomprehensible and certainly also for Minnan. It is certainly a fascinating linguistic crockpot here.
DeleteActually from recent contact with lots of Fujian people I came to learn that the Fujian province is the most linguistically diverse region of China. The natives describe the geography as "Eight parts mountain, one part water, and one part farmland" (八山一水一分田). There is also the expression "if you drive five miles in Fujian the culture changes, and if you drive ten miles, the language does".
ReplyDeleteFujian dialects are generally divided into 5 main groups Minnan (闽南), Mindong (闽东), Minbei (闽北), Minzhong (闽中) and Puxian. There is also Hakka (客家) but it is more closely related to Northern dialect rather than Fujian ones. Therefore calling the Minnan dialect Hokkien (the Minnan word for Fujian) is also wrong since not everyone in Fujian understands Minnan (already tested this theory).
Yup. I have tried this before - with someone who spoke Fuzhou/Foochow/Hokchiu and I thought - surely it is close enough to be mutually intelligible? Nope, not a word. And of course, you remember my vlog episode where I chatted with Stephanie originally from Xiamen and we barely had 50% mutual intelligibility. Heck, I have even struggled at the best of times with this woman from Penang who spoke to me in Penang Hokkien and I had to switch to Mandarin and English when I failed to understand her well enough.
DeleteTaiwanese Hokkien and Malaysian Hokkien is quite similar as compared to Mainland China. This Malaysian blogger namwee did a great comparison.
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=cpiN2YXC4uM