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Let's get our facts right when talking about Singapore. |
1) Population Control A.K.A. “Why are there so many foreigners in Singapore?”
There is a very different situation in the West - the situation in UK, Australia, USA, Germany, Canada etc simply cannot be compared to Singapore. Now the key problem in Singapore is that the government has imported huge number of PRC migrants from China to boost the population - some of these PRC migrants are highly skilled but a large number are very lowly skilled and do not speak any English at all. Heck, never mind speak English, some of them are barely toilet trained and poop in public! Whilst they are a source of cheap labour (and help boost the falling birth rate), they still push up the population density in what is already a very crowded country and thus cause a lot of friction between locals and new migrants from China.
Can any of these lowly skilled PRC migrants get a job in somewhere like Australia, Canada or the UK? No way, not in the million years - the bar of entry is set extremely high in these countries and you will need to be a highly skilled professional in order to gain access to these countries. So yes, there are Asian migrants in the West, but these are the right kind of migrants who are filling gaps in the labour market, they are welcomed in the West because migration is a lot more carefully managed in the West to ensure that unskilled, uneducated migrants are turned away and only the right kind of migrants are allowed to settle. The Singapore government, however, is far less interested in managing the quality of the migrants, much to the frustration of the locals who are so frustrated with this influx of PRC migrants.
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Singapore has failed to manage migration properly. |
Thus the attitude towards migrants in the West is completely different from that in Singapore, simply because the situation is completely different. People in the West are not threatened by Asian migrants like myself because the system is extremely well managed in the West: undesirable migrants are turned away, they are not interested in getting cheap labour from places like China and India. It is all too easy to pander to racism and just assume that oh all Angmohs must be nasty racist and all Angmohs must hate Asian migrants - that is an extremely inaccurate and lazy argument on the part of Singaporeans who wish to argue against moving to the West. It couldn't be further from the truth - as an Asian migrant who has worked in three European countries this year (UK, France and Germany), I was judged on what I could contribute to the projects I had worked on, rather than the colour of my skin and I must say, I have been treated with so much love and respect in all three countries because I am a team player with something unique to contribute. It is just racist of Jackie Loh to assume that all Angmohs must be racist because they are not.
2) Treating the CPF system like it is a complete scam
I am not saying that the CPF is a complete scam, but it is an imperfect system that is not subject to enough checks and balances. There certainly can be improvements that can be made to it and I don't believe it should be abolished - it just has to be improved. However, many Singaporeans are way too stubborn to even engage in a sensible conversation about the improving CPF system. Their default response is to (inaccurately) claim that people in the West pay 40 to 50% in income tax (completely false of course) and that the low-tax system in Singapore is superior. Whilst I don't dispute the fact that Singaporeans pay far less in income tax, they also get far less back as citizens when you look at anything from education to health care - there is no such thing as a free lunch, you get what you pay for.
Citizens in Germany for example pay more in income tax but university education for Germans is completely free. Your average low-income family in Singapore may pay very little in income tax, but they would struggle to make ends meet if they had to put one or two children through NUS because NUS is certainly not free, unlike German universities. So you see, you have to take a much more holistic view of the bigger picture and not just focus on income tax per se. Open your eyes and look at the different ways the system works in different countries and you will see that many Germans are actually far better off than in Singapore, particularly those lower down the food chain. Thus I agree that it is not healthy to focus all our criticism on the CPF, the problem with the Singaporean system goes a lot further than the CPF system.
3) Complaining about Real Estate and Car Prices
I am going to deal with real estate prices first: there is a direct correlation between population density and real estate prices. Land in Singapore is limited, it is a very small country so if the government is determined to grow the population to 6.9 million or even 10 million, then as a consequence, the real estate prices will increase as population density rises. When I was a young child in the 1980s, the population was barely 2.5 million - given how low the birth rate is, most of the growth to bring it to the current of 5.4 million was achieved through new migrants. If the government hasn't tried to grow the population so aggressively, then there wouldn't be such pressures pushing up property prices as a result. That is one correlation that is not hard at all to work out; so yes, you can definitely blame the government for this one.
Sure you can look at real estate prices in Tokyo, Paris, New York and Sydney and see that real estate prices are equally high in the city center - but there is a big difference: in those cities, people can retreat to the countryside outside the city where property prices fall away rapidly the further you get from the city center. Where can Singaporeans go? Once they get to Woodlands, they are already pushed right up against Johor - any further and they are in Malaysia already. There is just no where for poorer Singaporeans to retreat to unlike those in Japan, France, America or Australia - they are stuck in a city state with painfully high property prices out of their reach.
As for car prices, I fully accept that in a small country, you simply cannot have car ownership on par with a country like America or Australia. However, if you want to create a car-free society, then you must supply the locals with an affordable and efficient public transport system. This relates back to my previous points: the infrastructure for public transport had been laid out back when the population was a lot less than the current 5.4 million - can the network cope with 6.9 or even 10 million people in Singapore? I don't think so. The people who will pay the highest price for this are those lower down the food chain who will have to rely on public transport no matter how overcrowded it gets.
4) Difficulty of finding employment, even with a degree
I find it unbelievable that this writer Jackie Loh had the audacity to write about this topic without once mentioning the discrimination against male Singaporeans with NS liabilities - how the hell are male Singaporeans suppose to compete with their female and foreign counterparts when the odds are stacked against them? They have to serve NS and then any potential employer will have to contend with the fact that they have to disappear to reservist at the drop of a hat? That is the key problem facing male Singaporeans - but no, the writer chose to ignore the elephant in the room and chose to blame Singaporeans for being too picky when it comes to jobs? Good grief.
5) "Our government has transformed Singapore from 3rd-world kampung island to 1st-world global recognized state in a matter of 40 odd years."
This is completely wrong. Singapore was poorer in 1965 at the point of independence, but it was a thriving city with a population of 1.89 million - the British had left the country with surprisingly good infrastructure and industry, there were plenty of schools churning out a well-educated work force and Singapore at that stage was anything but a 3rd-world kampung island. By 1965, Singapore was already a thriving city of international importance - if Singapore was such an insignificant 3rd world kampung, would the Japanese and British have fought so hard over it during WW2? I am simply aghast at the sheer ignorance of some bloody stupid Singaporeans who are under the impression that Singapore was like this little kampung with no more than a few huts and coconut trees in 1965. Please read my two pieces here on the history of Singapore as some of you guys seriously need to go back to school to retake some of these history lessons. Jackie Loh seriously needs to go back to school for some history and English lessons (his English sucks).
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Jackie needs some history lessons on Singapore! |
Why is it so important to remember pre-1965 Singaporean history? I think it is important because it helps put everything in perspective: the PAP didn't create the greatest economic miracle in living history from nothing, no. They merely inherited a country that had already been set up very well by the British and whilst I don't want to diminish their credit for what they did achieve, imagine if they had taken over a real 3rd-world kampung island, like Pulau Rawa (near Mersing in Johor) which was genuinely a small kampung island with very little on it (though it has been developed in recent years for tourism). Now that's a real 3rd-world kampung island - let's see the PAP take on somewhere like Pulau Rawa and transform it into another Singapore, now that would be a real challenge.
So there you go, I don't have an issues with Singaporeans who love the PAP, but I do have an issue with writers who simply cannot get their facts write when trying to present a piece like that. This is just very poor journalism. I don't have anything against Singapore and I believe that Singaporeans have plenty to be proud of - so as to why Jackie Loh would resort to lying and misrepresenting the facts in his piece is beyond me. You know, it is entirely possible to write a pro-PAP piece, praising the achievements of the PAP without discrediting yourself by getting your facts wrong. As always, please feel free to let me know what you think by leaving a comment below, many thanks for reading.
Thanks for clearing up these common misconceptions. I'm frankly tired of hearing people claiming that Singapore was a third world country pre-PAP. Maybe by 2014 standards, but not in 1965! Another common mistake made by this writer and some PAP supporters, is the claim that Singaporeans are against the importing of blue-collar workers. Another untruth, as Singaporeans know very well that they are not competing with this group. It's the white collar profession that has pit Singaporeans against some pretty intense competition. And you are right...being a male with NS liabilities adds to these woes.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment Ayhtas. By 1965 standards, Singapore wasn't poor - everything is relative. Of course if you were to compare Singapore today to what Singapore was in 1965, of course it feels like it was another world. But if you were to compare Singapore to other countries in 1965, it wasn't that much of a backwater - it had plenty going for it back then. It was an industrialized state with plenty of factories churning out loads of goods, there was a thriving port, people were well educated and it was not like there were just uneducated rice farmers in padi fields then.
DeleteI am not sure if Singaporeans know exactly what they want to object against: the west has always opened their doors to anyone who is smart enough to meet their very high standards when it comes to skilled migrants. But I think Singapore's standards are that low that anyone can come, so it's the people in the middle who are feeling the squeeze because of the extra competition. Whereas in the UK, if they only let in the super highly skilled equivalent of brain surgeons, then your average person isn't going to feel that threatened as he is not competing with the likes of those brain surgeons.
And as for NS liabilities, it is a real burden for male Singaporeans.
Number 1 is by default wrong. Jackie Loh does not seem to get that "population control" is bringing the population down, or within reasonable limits, and not growing it to something unsustainable....By the time I glanced down to Number 4 (about the difficulty of having a job despite having a degree), I seriously could not read on anymore, because the whole argument does not follow. He was using a case of "people are picky and elitist" to divert the criticism. I mean, why would you want to pick garbage cans if you are trained to do the accounts of another person, just as an example?
ReplyDeleteI think Singapore should implement a point system like most Western countries. Also come up with a job shortage list where employers have less restrictions to hire foreigners also like most Western countries. That way we can satisfy the job shortage in construction industry while limiting average white collar PMET from competing with Singaporean males who are already disadvantaged.
ReplyDeleteWho am i kidding? That will never happens as long as the scholar (zhuangyuan) system is still in place in Singapore's civil service. The government in Singapore have never listened to it's people and is not going to do that anytime soon.
The problem with the Singaporean system is that they are desperately importing PRCs to keep the ratio of Chinese-Malay-Indian citizens at status quo, the Malays are having so many babies, the Chinese are barely having 1 child. So the percentage of Malays in Singapore would increase dramatically if not for this huge influx of PRCs. Such is the card tower mentality - Singaporeans believe in maintaining the status quo of a Chinese-majority state, but that's a flawed model because PRCs are bad news, PRCs are bad for Singapore and a PRC is simply not the same as a Chinese-Singaporean so where do I begin? They are trying to maintain the status quo by injecting a huge number of PRCs and that has very bad consequences for the locals as they have failed to implement some kind of points system to keep out the undesirable PRCs.
DeleteThe good PRC would do so much better in China and dont need to leave the country, that is the hard truth. Those PRC being imported right now are low skilled, uncouth country bumpkins who probably have never even cleared high school back in China. The others that are coming mostly work in vice so aren't that desirable anyway. The Chinese with closest culture to us, Taiwanese, aren't interested in coming at all.
DeleteI have conversed with numerous PRC Chinese outside of Singapore in my years, and the ones who are outside of Singapore are normally more highly educated than those in Singapore, often with a degree from a good university (whether within China itself, or from another country such as the USA, Canada, or even South Korea), and they are actually more conversant in English and another language (possibly Japanese or Korean) other than Chinese. None of them have a desire to want to go to Singapore to work at all. The same goes for HongKongers and Taiwanese who might have a similar culture or ethic to Singaporeans, because they are generally more inclined to like their country's system better than Singapore, which is in fact extremely stifling for them.
DeleteThank you so much for the interesting read. It's been a long while since I read a sensible post from someone who is anti-pap.
ReplyDelete"I believe that these PAP supporters shoot themselves in the foot by writing poorly, particularly when they make simple errors in grammar (unforgivable). I can forgive the bad English, but not when they get their facts wrong. "
I feel that the same can be said about anti-PAP posts. Based on my personal experiences, I see such bad writing amongst anti-pap posts a lot more (e.g. Roy, TRS). Do you share the same experience?
Besides misrepresentation of facts and poor grammar, I am also annoyed by writing that employs logical fallacies and excessive use of emotions. I think it is one thing to disagree with PAP and the other to hate PAP. The immaturity and rudeness of some anti-pap supporters shock me. I feel offended when I see personal insults hurled against our politicians (pap and opposition alike) because it reflects so badly on Singapore. I think all these hate against political parties and their politicians are excessive and have no value in helping to improve our society.
Oh don't get me started on TRS - I had covered it in detail earlier this year because they insist on capturing the authentic voices of Singaporeans: that means giving the most inarticulate people the chance to write as they wish, bad English and all - in the name of authenticity.
DeleteI think the best weapon against the PAP is to judge them fairly, based on the facts, giving them credit where they deserve: that's the only way any critic of them can be taken seriously.
One thing I'm not happy is that cars are out of reach for most Singaporeans with its ridiculously high COE prices. Even when oil price drops, they are still going to increase transport fares next year for public transports which we have no choice but to travel by public transport. Really too much!
ReplyDeleteThis is where I part company with you - if there are any more cars in Singapore, the roads would be choked with cars and there would be epic traffic jams. Singapore is such a small country, if there are too many cars, the roads will just turn into one huge parking lot with nobody going anywhere. If you want to live in Singapore, you just have to accept that private car ownership is not going to be possible - either use public transport or get a taxi if you want a bit of luxury.
DeleteI do agree however, that the government can do a LOT to improve the quality of public transport though - better frequency, better trained drivers, better service etc.
Jacky, you seem to think that car ownership is a right. It is not a right. The island is already busting at the seams. How do you reckon having more cars will improve life in Singapore? I agree that improving public transportation is crucial. Your MRT system is not bad presently. Could be better, of course. The number of taxis also makes it convenient and affordable.
DeleteBut can the MRT system cope if the government insist on growing the population to 6.9 million, even 10 million? Di, can you imagine what it would be like to try to get on the MRT during rush hour on Monday morning when all these new migrants are all trying to squeeze onto the trains to get to work that early in the morning? That's why one has to note the correlation between population growth and the public transport network - at some stage, it will make it nearly impossible for people to use when the overcrowding just gets ridiculous.
DeletePresently, no, the MRT will not cope with 6.9 million. It has to be addressed. However, making cars more affordable to own is NOT the answer. First of all, the government has to think a 100 times over before growing the population to 6.9 mil. Secondly, they have to build the infrastructure (MRT included) before they get to the 6.9 mil. They have to address the infrastructure even NOW!
DeleteYou're such a windbag...
ReplyDelete...but I love it when you give these PAP fanboys the LIMPEH treatment. :D
You wrote: "I am simply aghast at the sheer ignorance of some bloody stupid Singaporeans who are under the impression that Singapore was like this little kampung with no more than a few huts and coconut trees in 1965."
ReplyDeleteIndeed. Singapore was already a buzzing and thriving British port-city even as far back as 1882, as this marker of Jose Rizal at Boat Quay in Singapore says:
"Rizal was a brilliant student and acquired his first degree at the age of 16. In May 1882, when he was 21 years old, he left for Spain to study medicine. His firts stop on his was to Spain was Singapore, which was the first foreign land that he visited.
"Singapore was then a thriving British port-city and he found it buzzing with people and economic activity."
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=453834524641502&set=a.247269498631340.68016.100000448763402&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-xaf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F548617_453834524641502_1470358507_n.jpg%3Foh%3D7d3d89aa879b9a6a41c31870eeaccfc1%26oe%3D553D00A6%26__gda__%3D1430628215_97659558aed188be46562421401468dd&size=960%2C717
Hi Andrew and thanks for your comment. I am aghast at the way some Singaporeans actually believe that Singapore was a kampong in 1965 - I studied history up to secondary 2, it is not like I have a degree in SE Asian history, all this was covered in the most basic secondary 1 + 2 syllabus, not to mention plenty of social studies lessons in my primary school; yet so many Singaporeans are subject to this selective memory where they choose to believe in certain things and ignore others. Believing that Singapore was a kampong or a slum in 1965 simply hands the PAP way too much credit - I suppose giving the British (oooh Angmohs) credit for what they have done is controversial with some Singaporeans who are reluctant to give them that much credit as they would rather see Singapore's success as self-made, rather than something set up by the British. Whether you like the Brits or not, you cannot deny the fact that they did contribute to Singapore's success in a major way and at least handed over a thriving city to the PAP. It was NOT a fishing village in 1965.Heck, it wasn't even a fishing village in 1865.
DeleteWhat about the comparison with 1960s Brunei? http://crasstalk.com/2014/02/brunei-vs-singapore-a-case-study/ Not all wealthier cities took the same economic trajectory. I think the government's mistake was to keep wages low and import cheap unskilled labour in order to satisfy corporate interests, rather than let wages grow naturally as they do in developed countries. This also increases the pressure to work longer and harder to afford a house and a car, while not increasing actual productivity. This is ironic since they already acknowledged the need for greater individual quality in the 80s since we have no other resource and our population is small.
ReplyDeleteFalse dichotomy error. Just because we are a thriving city when the british left us, it doesnt mean we're not a third-world kampung. Prior to HDB flats, where do you think most the population (i.e. lower class folks) live in? they live in first world conditions?
ReplyDeleteAnother example, In today's world, mumbai is thriving city too, but where do you think most of the population live in first world conditions?
No Gerard you are wrong.
DeleteYou are making the error of comparing 1965 Singapore to 2015 Singapore - of course public housing is vastly improved in 2015, but how is that a fair comparison? You can compare the 1965 vs the 2015 conditions in any city in the world and see an improvement. So you are the one who is guilty of the false dichotomy error because you are so busy sucking PAP cock that you are unable to figure out the basic error in your logic you cocksucker.
In 1965, even in first world rich cities like London, New York and Paris - the poor lived in pretty appalling conditions. In London for example, much of the East End was flattened in WW2 by the German bombs and a lot of the hastily rebuilt housing after the war which housed the poor were in terrible conditions. In New York, the neighbourhood of Harlem was practically a slum with third world living conditions, high crime rates, severe overcrowding and this led to severe riots in 1964.
The fact is, in 1965, it would have been impossible to find a city anywhere in the world where the entire population lived in first world conditions - not in London, not in New York, not in Singapore. By that token, Singapore wasn't that bad: it merely reflected the fact that the rich people had nice houses and the poor people lived in crowded conditions. That made Singapore on par with many other cities in the world in 1965, including places like London and New York.
I don't see the relevance of Mumbai's comparison - perhaps you don't speak Malay and don't understand the word 'kampung'. That means village in Malay, it implies a very small village, a rural community mostly based on agriculture rather than industry. The opposite of the word kampung is bandar (which means city). With 1.89 million people, Singapore is not a kampung but a bandar - you Chinese people should not use these Malay words if you don't know what they mean. Whilst a thriving city can contain people living in poverty (such as in the case of Mumbai), Jackie Loh made the huge mistake in giving the PAP the sole credit for delivering the Singaporean economic miracle and ignoring the role that the British have played. Singapore was not a little village with a few farmers growing vegetables in 1965 - it was a thriving city with loads of well established industries and was a thriving centre of commerce. Now look, I don't want to discredit the PAP for what they have delivered, but you have to get your history right. They took what was already a successful city and made it even more success - they did NOT take a little village with practical nothing and built it up from scratch. That is what I am disputing and I hate it when Singaporeans don't even know their own country's history.
So you're the one who needs to go back to school and take some lessons in Singaporean history and geography. Stop sucking the PAP's dicks and start getting your facts right you cocksucker. Bwahahahahahaa.
Alright cocksucker, here's a geography lesson for you.
DeleteSingapore in 1965 cannot be considered a kampung by any stretch of the definition - even if a big city of 1.89 million had some kampungs in the outlying areas, the very fact that there are 1.89 million people residing in the main city area and the fact that there is a clearly defined urban area with industries (as opposed to a rural area with mainly agricultural activities) means that it is a city (bandar) and not a village (kampung).
Case Study: let's look at KL today. In the Greater KL region encompassing the Klang valley, the population is 6.9 million. KL today is the capital of Malaysia and is a city - there is no way you can argue that KL is a kampung or village just because oh there are some rural areas within the Klang valley area. The fact is all big cities will consist of the urban centre, suburbs and a greater hinterland area where there could be some rural areas that may resemble villages and farmland. But would you be able to then say, "KL is a little third world kampung" just because there are some areas in the Klang valley which may be kampung-like in nature? Of course not. I invite you to stand before the majestic Petronas Towers and tell me you're in the middle of a kampung.
You are a PAP cocksucker because you cannot accept that this Jackie Loh has incorrectly labelled Singapore in 1965 as a third world kampung. The fact that there were some rural areas in Singapore which resembled kampungs in 1965 doesn't make it a kampung at all - it was still a city with a population 1.89 million and a clearly defined urban area. By that token, any geography would term it a CITY and not a village. Hence Jackie Loh was wrong in using the term kampung (which means village) - and your argument that oh 1965 Singapore consisted of some rural kampung like areas would therefor render any big city in the world from Beijing to Kuala Lumpur to London to Los Angeles to Cairo a "kampung" just because all of these big cities extend out to a rural hinterland.
So that's the geography lesson for you. Now you can get back to sucking the PAP's cocks.
Hi Limpeh, nice article, enjoy reading it very much.
ReplyDeleteWas it in this article or another, you said that root cause of xenophobia stems from the actions taken by pap. Totally agree. For me, the govt has a task to boost GDP. As GDP formula suggests, boosting spending helps. And the most straightforward way to boost spending is to increase population. But this "solution" is way too lazy and did not consider the implications or other more complex and longer term alternatives. Given the obsence salary, i do expect them to think more and develop better solutions or at minimal put better measures to manage/filter the influx of foreigners.
Frankly, I probably did not spend too much time thinking about the foreigners taking up the "lower to mid level" jobs but I am certainly not too happy about the foreigner situation at the higher level management of companies. China, Vietnam, etc.. has tons of foreigners as well especially at ~Managing Director level. But whenever i speak to the local people/management, it is clear that foreigners are there so that the locals can learn as much as possible and eventually replace them. Because at end of day, the local culture/language factor trumps whatever skills that can be learned over a few years. Yet in Singapore, I often see one angmo replacing another angmo or some angmo loving the SPGs so much that they settled long term in sg. Is this a permanent scenario that the people/govt wants? Surely, there are capable Singaporeans as well right? (Disclosure: I live and work in one of the Eurpoean scandic countries currently but intend to return to sg eventually; currently a mid-high level management),
Finally, I have add to your point about racism in the west. As mentioned, I have been in Europe for a couple of years already and it is clear that some form of racism is present. But the big problem is "structural discrimination". I wonder if it is because you are in the financial sector where results are more quantifiable and thus more meritocracy? Where I am from (manufacturing), some of the work is fluffy and results are generally not easily distinguished per individual or even recognizable in short term. So I do agree that angmo not necessarily racist but structural discrimination happens in a big way. This is one core reason why I will not consider living here in Europe long term and subject myself or kids to disadvantage.
Hi Xiaobai, let me simply respond to your point about racism in the West. I think that Singaporeans are misguided in worrying so much about racism that they forget about all other forms of bigotry: homophobia, sexism, Islamophobia, discrimination on the basis of social class, discrimination of fat people - a lot of white people face a lot of discrimination if they have a working class accent, or if they are quite simply, fat & ugly. Of course there are all kinds of discrimination everywhere you go, be it in Europe or in Asia and we need to be aware of what we are dealing with, whom we are dealing with and how we can protect ourselves when encountering bigotry - not just racism, but ALL forms of bigotry.
DeleteSo for example, a fat person in Singapore can face discrimination by his fellow Singaporeans if all people can see is his waistline and judge him first and foremost by his appearance. A gay person in Singapore can face an awful lot of homophobia if he is not in a supportive environment. There is plenty of discrimination going on in Singapore and people get singled out and bullied for a whole range of reason: heck, in my army days, it wasn't like the Chinese were protected from any kind of bullying - people will find a reason to bully you, discriminate against you, treated you worse than others because bigotry extends a lot further than racism.
I wonder if you could clarify what you mean about "structural discrimination" in the wider context of all kinds of bigotry (and not just racism) because I am sure bigotry affects anyone and everyone including white people. I am guessing that you (like so many from Singapore) are so obsessed with the issue of racism that you have conveniently forgotten to consider other forms of bigotry that affect both:
a) white people in Europe
b) Chinese people in Singapore.
The world isn't perfect. If you think that going back to Singapore is going to give you a better, safer future for you and your family, then you are going to be disappointed. It is much the same, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence: it is what you make of the grass you have before you that matters most in life. Over to you.
Hi Limpeh, as I had mentioned, I dont think racism is a problem here in Europe and I am certainly not obsessed with it. Of course there are always a small handful of black sheeps that cause some isolated unpleasant incidents but nothing that I cannot live with. So I dont think we disagree.
DeleteMy england not very powderful but I will try to explain strucutral discrimination in my view. Basically, it is not intentional discrimination; but as an example, because Mr boss feels more comfortable working with a person with similar background, culture, local language, it is quite normal that he chooses or grants more opportunites to B who shares the background as himself rather than B who comes from a very different background and speaks english with a diff accent. (vice versa, its easier and always more enjoyable for me to speak to someone to understands a crude army joke)
So Strutural discrimination is indeed a form of bigotry and it can happen anywhere and to anyone. But from personal point of view, as a Singaporean working here in Europe, where I am always the only Asian in any management meetings, structural discrimination is evident for me. Sure, I take steps to adapt, learn the jokes, way of thinking etc to lessen the effect, but I will never be able to be fully customized. The locals here have 40 years of living in such environment; even different nationals but from the same European roots will adapt more easily than us Asians, after all they share some form of similarities (their cusine, tastebuds, historical war in Europe, etc). I am fairly amibtious and I know that it will be hard to breach the "glass ceiling" here so i choose to be back in sg eventually where i have a greater chance of being the top dog there (but after my unit ROD so that I dont have reservist... LOL).
Finally, going back to sg isnt necessarily going to be better or safer, but for family and personal reasons, I need to be responsible for certain things back home so will have to return eventually. But if i dont have other commitment, hell ya, I would prefer to sit on the boat on weekends, ski in winter, hike in beautiful landscape and enjoy long summers in Scandinavia.
Cheers, again, nice chatting with you. Send me a message if you are in Denmark and we have some nice Danish snaps!
Dear Xiaobai,
DeleteHej and mange tack for the long explanation. I want to assure you that I have taken the time to read your explanation (twice in fact - once on email, then once when I loaded this page) and I want to offer you my response. I'm afraid I do not agree with you - but allow me to show you why, please.
Firstly, since you talked about crude army jokes, allow me to talk about my army unit during my NS days. The vast majority of people in my unit were Chinese-Singaporeans, but did we all get along with each other? No, we still managed to find ways to disagree with each other, dislike certain people and it was far from being one big happy family. People argued, bickered, bitched, back stabbed, sabotaged others - you name it. For example, the regulars didn't get along with the NSF. Those who went to poly didn't get along with the JC guys. There was even a line drawn between the Hokkien speaking ones and the Cantonese speaking ones - like I can just about manage to understand basic Cantonese, but they would deliberately speak amongst themselves in Cantonese so the Hokkiens would not be able to join in the conversation. The gays did not get along with the straight guys. Those from rich families did not get along those who grew up in HDB flats. And then there were those jiat-kentang kids who listened to American and British pop music and the jiat-png kids who listened to Cantopop and Mandopop who had nothing in common.
Need I go on? Even in a Singaporean-Chinese environment, people still manage to find a way to create some kind of "structural discrimination" because Singaporean-Chinese people are hardly a monolithic entity, but comprise of a wide variety of people from very different social backgrounds. You talk about the Danish feeling more comfortable with people from a similar cultural background - well guess what? You may encounter the same kind of "structural discrimination" if you return to Singapore and worked for a very traditional Singaporean boss who may have preferred a colleague who (like him) had spent his entire life working in Ang Mo Kio and may view you as a jiat-kentang globe trotting weirdo who is nothing like the other Singaporean staff. The fact is you don't know what kind of colleagues you may end up with if you move back to Singapore - so aren't you making a dangerous assumption that somehow, you are going to avoid the same kind of structural discrimination that you are facing in Denmark? Are you under the impression that everyone is going to roll out the red carpet for you and welcome you back to motherland Singapore with open arms? Are you somehow assuming that you are going to be Mr Popular and get along with every single Singaporean person you may work with should you relocate to Singapore? Surely that's you assuming that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, because I assure you that you are in for a rude shock. My very Singaporean sister works in a very Singaporean company with very Singaporean colleagues and believe you me, the amount of back stabbing and office politics that goes on in her office would shock you. (It shocked me!)
She would tell you that working in a very Singaporean environment with very Singaporean colleagues in a very Singaporean company may spare you some of the cultural barriers you are facing in Denmark currently, but believe you me, you are just as likely to be stabbed in the back by a very Singaporean colleague. The fact that the office chatter is in Singlish is not going to lessen the blow when you do get stabbed in the back by your very Singaporean colleague.
DeleteI am also an Asian working in a European environment and like you, I am often the only Chinese/Asian/immigrant in the room and guess what? You just have to get on with it - I am so bloody busy with work that I have no time to worry about cultural barriers, I just get on with the growing pile of work in front of me rather than worry about "oh I am the only Asian here".
One thing that remains the same whether I am working in Europe or doing NS in Singapore: you need to make a genuine effort to get along with those you work with. The challenges may be different in a European company compared to an SAF army unit - but let's not pretend that either is easier just because the context is different. Let's not blame the cultural barrier - because there is so much we can do to overcome those barriers. Please, think about the world we live in today.
My grandparents opposed my dad's choice of bride because my dad is Hakka and my mum is Hokkien. And it was like, no what the hell are you doing marrying someone who is not Hakka?! That sounds totally ridiculous in this day and age of course - but now you're telling me that someone is not willing to become your friend and will discriminate against you on the basis of your nationality? OK I am not saying that people like that don't exist, but if they do, then that's your cue to move on and find someone a bit more open minded and modern when it comes to working with people from another country. I have worked with some really good companies before who draw talent from around the world and if someone were to hire on the basis of such stupid petty shit like "oh I want someone from the same country/village as me" then that kind of stupid petty bullshit would not be tolerated in a serious business environment. Sorry to be blunt, but that is the way the business world is - at least in finance.
Mind you, I think I will blog about this properly. Just gimme some time, still clearing the decks after having been away in Spain for a week and there's so much stuff piled up upon my return to London.
DeleteHere's the full reply to you Xiaobai: may I respectfully beg to differ and explain why I think you are wrong. http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/working-with-people-from-another-country.html
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