Sunday 13 April 2014

Gilbert Goh hits a new low - eugh.

Eugh. have you seen the latest piece of crap that Gilbert Goh has posted? And as usual, TRS gladly posts whatever Gilbert Goh posts with no element of quality control. Serious, someone please tell this Gilbert Goh to stop embarrassing himself by writing crap like that. I know this list is meant to be funny but we are only laughing at how bloody stupid the writer is. Someone help him, please. Allow me to respond to Gilbert Goh's ten points.
1. You can't buy HDB BTO flats for the longest time and only recently you can buy a brand-new 2-room flat but competing against countless other applicants.

What about the private market - why is Gilbert looking only at the HDB market? Yes there is a scarcity of properties in Singapore, it is a function of supply and demand. You live in a densely population small country, the supply of housing simply cannot meet the demand - surely all Singaporeans are aware of these facts and you must accept it as part of living in Singapore. If this bothers you that much and you want to buy a big house cheaply - simple, move away from Singapore to a country which is not densely populated, where land is plentiful and property is cheap. But if you want to live in Singapore, then you have to accept the economic realities of living in a densely populated small country.
2. You have to work harder than the rest and can't take year-end long hols because your colleagues with families tend to have natural inherent priorities to book leave in December.

That's bullshit - I don't think any boss out there would simply allow their employees with children to take it easy, times are hard, companies care about profit margins and will reward employees who will deliver the best performance. By that token, singles can be relied on - parents are the ones who are kept up all night by crying babies and have to take time off to do things like take their children to the dentist. And if you really want to take a long holiday at the end of the year, really, just put it in a reminder your outlook calender. It's not rocket science Gilbert, are you that bloody disorganized? You don't need any "natural inherent priorities" to put a reminder in your diary to do something like that. Duh.
Is it really that hard to put a reminder in your Outlook calender?

3. You envy those new citizens coming in as they are welcomed with good jobs, new housing and red carpet at the swearing in ceremony and you have to bunk in with your ageing parents.

So? I know Gilbert doesn't like all these foreign talents and new migrants but what has this got to do with being single? There will always be people who are richer than you in any big city like Singapore. And if you don't want to live with your ageing parents - simple, move out dimwit. Get a place of your own. It's not rocket science. It's a choice you have to make - if you move out, then you will need to spend money on rent, if you choose to live with your parents, then you save money by not paying rent. It's a choice you have to make - you're not a prisoner locked up by your parents. 
4. You try dating websites but there are more weirdos than eligible people out there and you now prefer staying at home than risking it all on blind dates.

I'm not here to defend dating websites, but let's get realistic here. With such dating websites, you have to be realistic - there is no joining criteria for these websites. All you have to do is sign up and (if applicable) pay a fee to the website - they don't reject anyone for being too old, fat or ugly to join such websites. If you come across a profile of person you find unattractive, simply move on to the next profile. Nobody is unrealistic enough to expect everyone on a dating website to be super attractive - get real, but that's no reason to stop using them, simply tamper your expectations. And instead of staying at home watching TV, why not go out with your friends and have a social life instead? Duh.
5. Your parents nag at you and even recommend you some nice singles to go out with but you prefer to choose one on your own.

Let's not make the parents the villains here - would you rather your parents were completely indifferent to your situation? They are making an effort to help and that gesture should be appreciated, rather than scorned at.

6. You buy a dog for company and it ends up becoming your best friend literally.

What is wrong with having a dog? Why make the dog the villain? You wanna blame the parents, then the dog?
Can you bring yourself to blame this cutie?

7. You have no problem getting movie ticket even during weekend as the odd single seat is always available somewhere.

Duh. Just because you're single doesn't mean that you have to go to the movies alone - you can be single and still have a great social life with other friends. Is Gilbert really unacquainted with the concept of having friends or a social life? Single people are not necessarily lonely people, conversely, married people can be isolated and lonely.

8. You wish your parents use something more creative than "when can I carry my grandchild?" slogan when they talk to you again for the umpteenth time.

Not all parents are that blunt - Gilbert makes it sound like the parents of the singles want them to get married for selfish reason, "give me a grandchild, I don't give a shit about whether you are happy or not, just give me what I want now!" It's hardly like that, I think parents who do try to get involve are often looking at the bigger picture rather than just at their desire for grandchildren. Gilbert is trying to make them sound like selfish monsters - that's totally unfair.
It is wrong of Gilbert to make Singaporean parents look like villains.

9. You wish your best friend who is also single will stay with you till eternity and not get married.

Again, that's a very selfish thought. Surely normal people will wish for their best friends to be happy and do whatever is right for them, rather than wish for them to remain single for selfish reason. Maybe Gilbert is just such a selfish person who will put his own needs before the needs of his best friend(s), but I know I'm not like that and many people are not either. Besides, even if your best friend does get married, you can either still spend time with your best friend (and his/her spouse) or hang out with other friends. Duh.

10, You wish you had accepted Tommy's marriage proposal ten years ago and life will be happily ever after.

That is just a bloody misogynistic statement. This makes Gilbert Goh come across as a totally sexist asshole. No wonder his wife left him as he's not only sexist but selfish (ref: point 9 above), surely Gilbert's failed marriage should have taught him the basic principle that not all marriages end up with life being happily ever after. Okay let's say he's talking about a single woman who rejected 'Tommy's' proposal ten years ago and is still single - but let's run with this for a moment. Surely there must be a good reason for this single woman to have said no to 'Tommy' when he proposed: maybe he's an asshole, maybe he's selfish, maybe he's sexist, maybe he's just like Gilbert. And this single woman would rather remain single than marry the wrong guy - which is a totally rational thing to do.
Why did this woman say no to 'Tommy's' proposal? 

I know Gilbert is just trying to be funny here - but please can someone tell him that his writing sucks so bad and he's not funny in the slightest. If you think I'm being unfair to Gilbert, please feel free to leave a comment below. Are you single in Singapore? Would you like to share your experiences with my readers? Thanks for reading. 

33 comments:

  1. I told him that before as an English PhD holder, but he refuses to listen and even claimed that I write badly for a PhD holder LOL...talking about being defensive without the proof....ewww....

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    1. It's one thing to try to be funny and fail - it's another thing to try to be funny and end up being sexist and misogynistic. Only Gilbert Goh is capable of putting his foot in his mouth like that. Is he that oblivious to how terrible his writing is? Can someone please send him a memo?

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    2. I have to admit that when I write my comments, I make many mistakes. One reason is sometimes I do it from my phone, and it's a pain coz the screen is small. Other reason is that I need reading glasses! Lastly, I sometimes do it from work during my breaks, but I get interrupted in my thoughts. Could that be Goh's problem? Or is he just witless but trying to be witty? Wit is like grace. Either you have it, or you don't. Remember Mr. Pit telling Elaine Benis (Seinfeld) about having grace?

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    3. What I don't get is why Gilbert Goh insists that single people are lonely when a single person can have loads of friends and have a great social life - whereas there are some married people who can be lonely as well. Duh Gilbert.

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    4. Why is he living with Mama? At his age === disgraceful.

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    5. He is hopeless as a writer, not only because of his terrible English which manifests itself everywhere, but also because of his lack of logic in the various "articles" he writes. It is one thing to rant but publishing it every time that you write something really bad is a severe embarrassment to oneself.

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  2. GG has an authoritarian streak in him. I hope Singaporeans don't vote him in or we'll get another dictator.

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  3. And his English language really need some work too. Can't believe i actually voted for this guy during the last ge.

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    1. He needs to rely on more than "I'm not the PAP" to win enough votes to make a difference.

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    2. IMHO, I believe that GG had a chance in becoming a top opposition member. His chance came when he lead the 6.9 million population policy protest, but unfortunately, he messed up.

      This population policy has been such a hot topic that even the retired SR Nathan have to answer it when a participant raised it up. (The forum was about leadership, not politics).

      Imagine how much supporters GG can have if only he lead it well?

      Even his effigy which he prepared for the effigy burning is done lazily. It's just a doll with a computer printed black and white half body picture of the transport minister. Compared to other protesters in the world....he's still at level one.

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  4. LIFT, from your link, I went to look at his original article on TRS, and noticed that it's part of a continuing series he's working on, where he gives lists of "10 things" along with some analysis of the situation. It's mostly social commentary, with a pessimistic slant that reflects his own disillusionment based on repeated setbacks.

    It's not easy to keep coming up with ideas when you have to give them in multiples of 10. Therefore, I think you are being harsh and judgmental by saying he "descended to a new low". Granted, his last few points were just utter selfish rubbish, but the earlier ones were actually quite true (and you couldn't see that, because you have this attitude that people who have problems brought it upon themselves).

    Look I agree that this guy slips up. A lot. But give him credit for trying! Not everyone is like you, who can find a way out, if/ when they accidentally dig themselves into a hole. You are nimble, with a first-rate brain, and you have set yourself up quite well for life. All this is to your credit, you are truly a self-made man.

    It has also made you quite intolerant, as seen from the last few arguments you've been having with your readers. They've made compelling reading and have been exciting to follow, and your determination to NOT be a fence-sitter or sayang-brigadier is palpable. There's this recent pattern emerging in your posts that indicate you are becoming more rigid and set in your ways. Whatever, I'm still a fan of your blog.

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    1. Hi again. Thanks for your comment. I think that we should all play to our strengths. Goh is not a good writer and certainly, comedy is not something he can carry off - his attempt at a funny article has been poor to best. I don't see other politicians trying to write articles like that if they know they are not great articles - don't do anything that makes you look bad to the public. It's basic PR. Then again, a lot of good politicians have PR consultants guiding them, GG doesn't have that benefit of someone whispering in his ear, "don't do this Mr Goh, you'll regret this, it will make you look like a fool to the public."

      As for my attitude, has it changed that much now that I'm older? (It's my birthday today, just turned 38...)

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    2. Happy Birthday! Ok I admit, I took what you said about GG personally as I'm the same age as him and actually do share some of his rather fuddy-duddy views.
      As such, you do not deserve my rather insensitive and accusatory remarks earlier, especially not on your birthday, so I am sorry if they offended you.
      Anyway, 38 is still young, definitely not an "uncle" (which is reserved for middle age when one is closer to 50).

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    3. Well thank you. On the issue of GG, I think he lacks good advice. He seems to be determined to try to do things his way whereas anyone who's trying to do anything in politics would usually have PR advisors to help them maintain a good public image - I can't imagine a mainstream British politician writing anything like that without being classed as a loony or fruitcake, it would just destroy all credibility. Except of course, the main political parties will have press officers to look at and edit things like that, GG just wants to post any old crap list he writes and puts them on the internet without an editor checking even for bad English. Oh dear.

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    4. OMG! My birthday is April 14th too! SERIOUUSLY! I am older than you by a few years, but yes, April 14th! Go, Aries! No wonder we think alike. Happy birthday!

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    5. Happy birthday Di! I am exhausted from today's rehearsals ... Hope your birthday was a bit more restful than mine :) But hey, I already had the best birthday gift ever for a 38 year old man ... The fact that I am still doing wirework at my ripe old age of 38 and I had managed to defeat these young fit guys who are half my age (not kidding some of them are 19 - exactly half my age) and I may be losing my hair but there's still plenty of fight left in this old dog :)

      Sending you big hugs and loads of love from London :)

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    6. Hugs and love back to ya, Honey! 38 is not old. I am older, and I do not feel old. In fact, I may be doing a master program this fall in counselling. Maybe. If you are flipping and tumbling at your age, you've still got it. It's only 1:30 pm here. I will go home, take a nap (my two men are at tennis this afternoon), and then wake up to go out for dinner at my favorite South Asian haunt, Kurumba. Life is good.

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    7. About to have my birthday cake and then straight to bed - alarm is set for 6 am tomorrow for another long day of rehearsals :) Enjoy Kurumba :)

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  5. You seem to have an axe to grind with Gilbert Goh. There's nothing really wrong with his command of English; the only reason why his English is "bad" is because you think his arguments are flawed (which isn't the same thing).

    To be fair to Goh, I think points 1, 3 and 4 are statements of fact which you actually agree with! (I don't think I've to fish out your previous posts to remind you what you've written before.)

    I think you've totally misunderstood point 2 and began a straw man attack. This has nothing to do with putting a reminder on a calendar or being "bloody disorganized"; it's about your colleagues taking leave at your expense.

    I've no issue with points 5 to 7 but I won't take them seriously. I don't think you do either judging by how little you commented on them compared to the other points.

    As for point 8, given your family background, surely you sympathise with people who don't get along with their parents? Why can't Goh dislike his parents for nagging about grandchildren just like you dislike your parents for withholding praises despite your achievements, or for being unsupportive of your gymnastics pursuits?

    I agree with you that point 9 is a selfish thought. But when you got to point 10, I have a strong suspicion that it's the one which set you off and you decided to "shred" his entire article so to speak, including the fair comments Goh has made.

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    1. Hi Puppet, allow me to deal with your points:

      Point 1: The property market is the way it is because of supply & demand, so to try to draw a connection to singlehood is ... tenuous at best.

      Point 2: I still don't see how you can allow your colleagues to take leave at your expense - maybe it's because I've been self-employed for so many years I don't fully appreciate this: but back in the days when I used to work for a company, I was able to take leave if and when I wanted to and the fact that I don't have children made no difference - my employers wanted to keep me happy, it boiled down to that - they valued me as an employee. That's down to each individual to earn the respect of one's employer.

      Point 3. Whilst I don't agree with this "crazy influx" of foreigners, again GG assumed that they all have "good jobs and new housing" whilst the realities of many foreign workers are not that rosy - I am thinking about the Little India riots. Sure there are some expats who earn super high salaries, but they represent the minority.

      Point 4. GG is making the websites sound so hideous when really, I think most of us who have had any experience of using them take them with a pinch of salt and accept them as an imperfect means of possibly finding a date - but he didn't need to demonize them.

      Point 5 - 7: If it is not funny, then leave it out. They weren't funny. They made him look silly. Even frivolous.

      Point 8: I don't think this is about people who don't get along with their parents - I think it is more about demonizing parents and playing the victim's card again, look I know GG loves playing the victim's card but I think he crosses the line when he tries to play it on behalf of others.

      Point 9. It's a truly selfish thought.

      Point 10. As you can see, such an offensive statement destroys any credibility he has as a politician and writer. He's clueless.

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    2. GG has a lot of issues with his logic and wrong facts. I noticed it quite a long time ago, even when he is trying to say things off the top of his head without checking them. For example, once he knew that I was in Japan, he assumed automatically that I was either in Tokyo or Osaka, wanted to live there long-term, and that I wanted to get a Japanese girlfriend, and that they are good in bed--WHEN NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY BASIS IN TRUTH....Just like what Luck of Fire has stated, GG has a rather bossy streak in him too when it comes to his opinions. It boils down to the generation gap wherein he is older than us by virtually 10-15 years and has not taken any effort to really upgrade himself in terms of skills and knowledge. This kind of situation happens with some of the older generation who just assume that their one-approach-fits-all mindset can be applied to everything, even if times have changed radically from the past. Hopefully, he does not continue to embarrass himself anymore. I told a Spanish friend (born in Spain, but lived in the UK for decades and now in Canada) about his terrible website, and after a mere glance at it, she told me that she actually had a real headache after looking at his terrible grammar, spelling and the lack of commas and full-stops.....and yes, she actually told me this, "Tell him that he sucks!" (hahah, as if I even want to tell him that!)

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    3. Hi Kevin, did GG really said that? :laughs: My guess is he is thinking about what he would do if he was in Japan, and he applied his perspective on you.

      I really wish that Singapore had a better opposition leader who can lead us, too bad we only have GG.

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    4. He was just purely STUPID in his assumptions. I said that I was not interested in Japanese women anyway. As far as I know, the foreigners who married Japanese wives experience this situation in which they no longer sleep together with their husbands once they give birth to their first kid, and this becomes an almost permanent fixture, not to forget that the wives control how much their husbands have in terms of money allowance...ewww....The moment he said that, all his credibility or what remained of it dropped to zero.....(my eyes glazing over now)

      Actually, the Workers' Party is probably the only opposition party with people who sound like they are thinking. But they also echo the PAP in some vocabulary. At least they are better than GG. O boy, GG has a serious issue with Singaporean women....

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    5. You see, that just shows you how his mind works.

      Situation;' GG can't find a Singaporean girlfriend.
      Conclusion: "There must be serious issues with Singaporean women."
      Truth: The fault lies with GG, not Singaporean women.

      Like does he not look in the mirror ... ?

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    6. Actually, I do not think that it is GG having difficulties in finding a Singaporean girlfriend as much as him being a divorcee who returned from Australia and handling a divorce post-return due to his decision to enter politics at that time(his former wife is a Singaporean working in Australia to support their child). With that kind of emotional baggage trailing behind him, it is no surprise that he would go on this track of blaming Singaporean women. The problem lies with him, just as you mentioned, not necessarily Singaporean women.

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  6. There is this dating website from Scandinavia called Beautiful People, and only accept gorgeous people as their members. If GG thinks that he is good-looking enough to get an equally good-looking date, he should pay that website a visit :)

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  7. Regarding Gilbert Goh,

    I have yet to witness enough Singaporeans willing to put himself or herself in the spotlight to fight for a cause like he did. You can laugh at his English or criticize his arguments, but I don't think anyone can fault his passion and initiative to help fellow Singaporeans, unemployed PMETs in his case.

    Honestly, I would prefer to highlight his passion or initiative which is admirable. Of course, you are entitled to make fun of him all you want (it's within your rights). But, unless you are on the ground doing the things he does, you should spare him a little respect with your words.

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    1. Dear Another Tan,

      I have acknowledged Gilbert Goh's attempt to help unemployed Singaporeans on my blog. In fact, he first brought his blog to my attention by trying to interview me for it (I said no as I didn't like his questions).

      However, just because he has done something good doesn't mean that I should let him off the hook when he writes a piece of crap like that on social media. Such is the nature of social media - if you are prepared to write something for the public to read, then you must be prepared to be judged for what you write. If you are not prepared to be judged, then just post it Facebook only and mark it a private post which can only be seen by your friends.

      Such is the nature of social media. I do respect him for the efforts he has made to help others - it doesn't change the fact that his writing is TERRIBLE and his command of the English language is laughable at best. By putting up such TERRIBLY written pieces of shit on social media, he is only shooting himself in the foot as people will remember him for his terrible (and offensive) writing, rather than his more noble acts of charity.

      Have you heard the saying "play to your strengths" - it's a pretty simple concept. If you're a good writer, then by all means write. If you're a terrible writer (who is good at other things, like helping unemployed people), then what the hell are you doing writing terrible pieces and inviting the public to mock you for the terrible way you write?

      Pause and think about that for a moment, Another Tan.

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    2. I don't disagree with your opinion about the quality of Gilbert's English. But neither will I judge him as a person based on his language abilities.

      From your reply, you seem to suggest that poor writers should stay off the blogosphere. I am not here to engage you on that view.

      Gilbert's big picture has been about the plight of unemployed PMETs in Singapore since the start. His website/articles (albeit not top notch) act as a medium to champion his cause. Please understand that this is probably the most cost-effective method for a volunteer to reach out to his audience.

      To me, it is very simple. The more Singaporeans understand Gilbert’s big picture (which is a consequence of government policies), the better they are able to put their votes to good use come the next election. And in the long run, the country or society may benefit as a whole.

      As a frequent blogger on Singapore issues, it’s entirely up to you to help spread his cause or keep harping on his poor English. That being said, I do understand the former may generate more traffic to your blog.

      Cheers mate.

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    3. I don't disagree with your opinion about the quality of Gilbert's English. But neither will I judge a person based on his language abilities.

      From your reply, you seem to suggest that poor writers should stay off the blogosphere. I am not here to engage you on that view.

      Gilbert's big picture has been about the plight of unemployed PMETs in Singapore since the start. His website/articles (albeit not top notch) act as a medium to champion his cause. Please understand that this is probably the most cost-effective method for a volunteer to reach out to his audience.

      To me, it is very simple. The more Singaporeans understand Gilbert’s big picture (which is a consequence of government policies), the better they are able to put their votes to good use come the next election. And in the long run, the country or society may benefit as a whole.

      As a frequent blogger on Singapore issues, it’s entirely up to you to help spread his cause or keep harping on his poor English. That being said, I do understand the latter may generate more traffic to your blog.

      Cheers mate.

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    4. Hello again and allow me to respond to your comment because you're wrong about several points IMHO.

      1. A person should always play to his strengths - so for example, if I am hopeless in the kitchen and don't know how to cook, I would go to the bakery and buy a birthday cake for my loved ones rather than attempt to bake one myself only to end up with a terrible looking/tasting mess of a cake. This is simply a rational, practical and pragmatic approach to life as we all can't be good at everything.

      2. If people like Gilbert are so bad at writing that they will only invite scorn and mockery with their writing, then really, why are they putting themselves up to be mocked like that? I know you're arguing that they should have the right to express themselves but what do they get out of the process (apart from being mocked)? Let's be rational about this.

      3. It may be a cost-effective method to try to reach his audience, but is it EFFECTIVE at all if people who read the article react badly to the articles, simply because they are so badly written in the first place? Surely the sensible thing to do would be for Gilbert to turn to someone else (like you perhaps - since you're obviously his fan and your English is flawless) and say, "uncle's English very bad one, but uncle want to reach people and tell them about my cause - can you help me blog or not? or at least correct uncle's English?" Why is he so oblivious to his weaknesses? Why is he too proud to ask for help?

      4. Personal attacks on Gilbert Goh do not bring more traffic to my blog - blogger allows me to monitor the traffic to my blog and I can tell which articles get the most hits. If I want more readers, I simply jump on the next bandwagon and talk about whatever is in the headlines and hope that people who want to google for more information come to my blog. So it's events like the Toa Payoh graffiti incident, the missing MH370, the current CPF debate, Anton Casey etc which generate the most traffic to my blog. Gilbert Goh rarely gets as much attention as those headline news stories - so I get far fewer hits for an article like that. Just to give you an idea of magnitude: my breaking story on Alvivi (Alvin Tan and Vivian Lee) is the most popular, most read story on my blog and that generated 80 times more views on that story alone than this one. That's right, that story proved to be x80 times more popular than this one. Why? Because people want to read about Alvivi, people are far less interested in Gilbert Goh. By a factor of 80. I am not doing this to attract more traffic to my blog, I am writing this because I profoundly disagree with Goh's views.

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    5. Hi bro,

      I can't see how I can be wrong when my earlier reply carried my personal opinion. I can feel your overzealousness to "correct" me. haha

      1. Your rational, practical and pragmatic approach may have worked very well for you and your life. But I hope you are not trying to convert your readers to your approach, because there is no single best approach to life. I think you are wise and smart enough to know that.

      2. Rather than rationality, I am sorry to say that your view smacks of elitism. I suppose you're saying only the good and best people in their fields should be where they are. What happens to the bottom 30%? It's obvious you don't reward points for trying.

      3. I don't consider myself as a Gilbert's fan. Like many of your readers, there are things that I admire and dislike about him. If it is not clear, the message in my earlier replies is about you being over-focused on his shortcomings. Your emphasis on his language ability overshadowed the purpose of his work.

      Your rhetorics further show your dislike of his character. It's ironic because you once passed up an opportunity to know him as a person.

      4. Good to know that it's not about blog traffic. There's no need to "profoundly disagree" with Gilbert's views. haha. I don't follow his articles and probably spent more time on yours. But I most or less understand the changes he is calling for. Therefore, I think we should be patient with his methods.


      Cheers, mate.

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    6. Hi again and allow me to respond to your points.

      1. We're not talking about anyone out there - we're talking about GG in particular and this man has political aspirations (he stood as a candidate in the last GE in 2011). Think about it - people like Cameron, Obama and other political leaders all have speech writers because they want to come across well to their potential voters and sell a most positive image to the public. It's all about PR specifically for an aspiring politician - play to your strengths.

      2. I refer you to point 1 above. I am also going to cite George W Bush as an example because he is the king of gaffes - he's said loads of stupid crap spontaneously, yet he has given some great speeches which have obviously been written for him by a great speech writer. In GG's case, whilst he has a right to express himself, you should stop playing the part of the kind school teacher who is trying to let everyone have his say and start imagining yourself as GG's campaign/PR manager and ask yourself this: what has GG got to gain each time he spouts something stupid and embarrasses himself like this? The next time he makes a stupid gaffe, what kind of damage is he doing to his own reputation? Context is everything.

      3. I judge Gilbert Goh fairly for what he has written/said. I am harsh to my friends, even my friends whom I like - I would not be 'nice' to a friend who has done or said something stupid just because I like them as a person.

      Your attitude sounds patronizing at best - yeah I acknowledge that he has done good work but does that mean that I should give him a 'get out of jail free' card when he does or say something downright stupid? I don't even give that privilege to my best friends.

      4. I choose not to be patient with his methods - I don't suffer fools gladly. I call a spade a spade. Like I said before, I am not from the sayang-sayang brigade, I am of the "dose of cold hard brutal reality" brigade.

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