Simple reason for dress sense - good dress sense is not valued. For which I am profoundly grateful - I needn't refresh my wardrobe as frequently. Should it be valued? Probably more than it is now. There is a reverse disdain for dandies - a sense that they should spend more time mugging than dressing up. Frankly, I'm quite happy to have the luxury of dressing like a slob. Sure, happy to dress up if I have to face clients, or go for an interview, but otherwise? If I could get away with shorts and sandals in the office, I would. Tools of the trade, ultimately. If you need clothes to be successful, sure, knock yourself out. If you can deliver without - why bother?
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| Should appearances matter in the business world? |
Thank you for giving us all plenty of food for thought Huichun. Allow me to start this off by telling you a few stories from real life involving people who have misjudged the situation and ended up in trouble. Since I have just returned from a skiing holiday, I shall start with a skiing story. Some time back, I was skiing with a friend Joseph who had a bad habit of stopping in the middle of the piste (ie. the ski slope). I would always nag at him that it was a bad habit because you should always stop at the side of the slope, never in the middle, because you risk causing an accident by becoming an obstacle in the middle of the slope. He laughed it off and explained, "Oh please, Alex, come on. If you saw someone in the middle of the piste, would you deliberately crash into them or would you go around them? Who in the right mind would crash into me? I would simply go around the person who has stopped, it's not rocket science."
Sure enough, Joseph had an accident. He had stopped in the middle of a blue piste (ie. an easy ski slope, for beginners) and a beginner who couldn't control her speed crashed into him as she couldn't stop in time. They were both pretty badly hurt, neither of them could actually get up and had to be taken to the local hospital for X-rays. Joseph was obviously criticized for stopping in the middle of the piste, when he should have stopped at the side of it.
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| Beware of beginners who are unable to control their speed or stop in time. |
What was Joseph's mistake? He assumed that everyone could ski confidently enough to manouevre their way around an obstacle (a tree, a patch of ice, a person etc) in the middle of the piste. Just because Joseph had the skills to do so doesn't mean that this woman (a beginner who had only just started skiing) was able to avoid Joseph as he stood in the middle of the piste. Joseph had assumed that everyone had the same ability as he did - which was a stupid assumption to make really, when you look at the beginners on the blue slope struggling with balance and falling over all the time. Had Joseph been on a black piste (ie. a difficult ski slope, only for experts), then there would probably be only expert skiers brave and skilled enough to tackle a black run and they would have had the ability to avoid obstacles in their way. Context is everything and Joseph forgot that he was surrounded by beginners on a blue run.
Onto our second story: this goes back to the time when I was at university. This was an incident that happened in the student canteen - it was a place where we would just sit around, get a coffee or a snack and catch up with friends. My friend Neil left his mobile phone on the table whilst talking to a group of us and his phone disappeared. As I recall he was walking around, talking to various friends whilst leaving his stuff (including his phone) unattended on the table. By the time he had realized that it was gone, it was too late - we helped him look everywhere but it soon became apparent that it was stolen when he wasn't paying attention. In anger, Neil ranted, "what kind of student would steal a phone like that?! We're all students here! I would never ever touch another student's property like that! How can people be so dishonest! How could that thief do this to me? What have I ever done to him?!" You get the idea.
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| Would you leave your phone unattended in this room? |
Now what was Neil's mistake? He assumed that everyone would be as honest as him and he could trust the strangers around him not to steal his phone - bad assumption. How can you trust strangers like that? Clearly, hindsight is 2020 and he should have kept his phone in his pocket. His assumption was based on the fact that he wouldn't steal a phone - therefore others will never steal his phone. That was a naive assumption to make in a very crowded canteen say the least! Context is everything - say when I go to my sister's flat, I would gladly leave my phone unattended on the dining table as I completely trust her family and her maid. It would be quite different if I was in a crowded food court where I was surrounded by strangers - I would be a lot more careful simply because of the context.
Our last story is from my JC days - I had a friend (let's call her HS) who did badly for her A levels. Now I know that HS was an excellent student, there was no doubt that she was an articulate, intelligent, bright person. Somehow, she cracked under pressure and didn't perform well in her exams to get the grades to reflect her true potential. When we got our results, HS was distraught as she would not be able to get into the university of her choice with those bad grades. A group of us sat down with her and tried to console her as she was crying - that was when one of the parents (let's call her "kind old auntie", Mrs Koa) waded in and tried to offer a "solution".
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| HS was a hardworking, intelligent student who ended up with bad results. |
"Let's go talk to your teacher, we will ask your teacher to write a nice letter to the university - telling them that you are normally an excellent student and that these results don't really reflect just how bright you are and that you just had a bad exam. We can even get your teachers to call up the university if necessary, maybe even show them some of the course work and essays that you have done in JC, to prove just how smart you really are. Don't worry, we will find a way to get you into the university of your choice. There must be a way to convince them just how worthy you are."
Now what was Mrs Koa's mistake? She made an assumption that the admissions department at university would take such a plea (be it in the form of a letter or phone call) seriously. Certainly, Mrs Koa's daughter was a very good friend of HS and this kind auntie knew just how smart HS. So whilst Mrs Koa was willing to give HS the benefit of the doubt - she assumed that others would as well. Is it really that simple to get into one of the world's best universities? No it isn't. Consider this: you are competing with the best students from around the world, all of whom are armed with top grades and all you have is a nice letter from your teacher that you are normally brilliant but had a bad day during the exams. Quite simply, they would not be prepared to give HS the benefit of the doubt in this case - they would need to see concrete evidence in the form of her A level results. Context is everything: Mrs Koa made an assumption that was wrong, she assumed that others would see things the way she would. It doesn't work like that in the real world.
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| Can Mrs Koa help HS get into her dream university? No. |
Let's see what these three people: Joseph, Neil and Mrs Koa have in common. They all made an assumption by imposing their view of the situation on strangers, rather than looking at the specific context and making a judgement based on the context. In all three cases, it is pretty clear where each of them went wrong in terms of their assumptions because they ignored the fact that another person may have a completely different perspective on the situation.
With that in mind, let's go back to Huichun's comment. Context is everything: if Huichun has the luxury of working with a group of colleagues who know him very well, who respect and value what he can contribute to the business - then they will not judge him by his appearances since they already know him very well. However, if he is working in sales and has to meet strangers (well, new clients) all the time - would he be able to make that assumption that they would not judge him on his appearances if he turns up dressed like a slob? They may not care, they may - but as he has a responsibility to portray his employers in a favourable light, he cannot risk giving the new client such a poor impression that it prevents a sale from happening or if the client walks away feeling less than satisfied with the service.
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| The context of your working environment dictates your dress code. |
Let's move on beyond clothing and look at two activities which you may do in familiar company (family, good friends) but would probably not do in front of strangers (particularly in a work context). The first is picking your nose, the second is belching. Now if a family member or good friend does either activity in front of me, I would probably not be mortally offended. It is hardly a pretty sight, but amongst close friends or family members, it doesn't really matter. But would you start picking your nose in the middle of a business meeting in front of clients you have met for the very first time? No, you simply would not because you cannot assume that they will be okay with your nasal mining.
After all, if you took that risk and got it wrong, would you be prepared to deal with the consequences? Remember the story of Neil who left his phone unattended on the canteen table only for it to be stolen moments later: there are situations in life where the risk is simply not worth taking. In Chinese we have the saying 得不偿失 "the gains do not make up for the losses" - the slight convenience of leaving your phone on the table for a brief moment does not make up for the consequences of having to deal with a stolen phone. So when it comes to dressing up for work, if we faced with a 得不偿失 situation, the sensible and logical thing is to play it safe and not risk getting it wrong.
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| Do you want to risk making a big mistake at work? |
By that token, context is everything and this really boils down to whom you are dealing with at work. It seems that in Huichun's case (I don't know what industry he works in), he has the luxury of dealing with colleagues who know him very well. He does not have to deal with clients who may be demanding when it comes to his appearances or a boss who may demand a certain dress code in the office (oh I have worked for such a boss before in my first job). Maybe he works in an industry where the dress code is totally casual (eg. if he deals with computer games or sports equipment) and nobody even wears a shirt with a collar to work: that would be quite different from say someone who works in banking or law: context is everything. It's not what you want to wear - it's how others expect you to dress.
So the golden rule is to put your own feelings aside and think about your boss, your colleagues and your clients first. Always be humble enough to put them before you, without exception. Always study the context of the situation and make your wardrobe decisions based on the context without ever assuming that others would automatically think/feel the same way you do about the situation. A lot of the argument about "style vs substance" disregards the context of the situation - after all, when you have a job to do, it is not for you to dictate how others should feel about the way you dress. You can scream at them, "you're so shallow! You're judging me by my appearances! You really should get to know me first rather than bitch about what I'm wearing today!" But guess what? Even if that is true, the world doesn't revolve around you and if you are required to serve/please people who are judgmental at work - then suck it up, be humble and make sure you give them the right first impressions because that's what you're paid to do.
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| What do others expect of you in the context of your job? |
In the context of Singapore, the irony is that men who have no sense of style actually probably do get away with it most of the time because there is no penalty for being badly dressed if everyone (including the big boss) in the office is equally badly dressed! However, Singaporean men who are either working with foreign colleagues/bosses or dealing with foreign clients must be aware of the different expectations of these foreigners when it comes to what is deemed an acceptable office dress code - especially if you want something from these foreigners. If you want to do business internationally then you must be prepared to demonstrate some understanding of your clients' business culture and their expectations, rather than bitch and moan about people being intolerant of difference when you get it wrong.
I hope I have made my stance clear on this issue: context is everything and there's no one size fits all solution to this issue. You simply have to look at the context you are in and make a decision based on it, rather than demand that the whole world must see things the way you do. No sir, you do not have the right to demand that others must think just like you. If you have any questions on the issue or have anything to add to this discussion, please leave a comment below and let me know your thoughts. What have your experiences been when it comes to this issue? Thanks for reading.
Yes, context is everything. My husband used to have to wear suits to work, so he did. Now he is in a different job which requires a golf shirt and pants, so that is what he wears. However, just because his office attire is a lot more casual now, he does not go to work looking like a slob. I think some people mistake a casual work environment as an excuse for going to the office dressed like a slob. It's never ok. Look at The Big Bang Theory guys. Granted it's a TV, but they represent a new generation of young professionals who happen to work in a more relaxed environment. They are very casually dressed, but none of them look like slobs. Howard and Rajesh both have their own style, and none of them would walk into their office in flipflops or tank tops. I imagine that most of real life employees working in schools, sports, or IT may dress like that. As for nose picking ... I don't care if even if it's a family member, I DO NOT want to see nose mining in my presence. Do it in the bathroom or when you are alone. Children should be told from a young age not to do that. They need to start somewhere. When my students do that, I tell them to go wash their hands. I do not berate them in front of their peers, but I tell them as a matter of fact, "Please go wash your hands."
ReplyDeleteHi Di. Erm... pardon me for playing the devil's advocate and maybe there's something lost in translation here (me being in Britain and you on the other side of the Atlantic) but wearing golf shirts outside a golf course just strikes me as weird to say the least. In the UK, we make fun of people who wear sportswear with no intention to do any sports and they tend to belong to a certain working class cohort who have a fondness for tracksuits and other associate sportswear but they wear it to go to work, go to school, go out with their friends but never to the gym... But if that's what his colleagues wear then I suppose he is looking to fit in with his work mates?
DeleteI totally agree that you can be casually dressed and still take pride in your appearance - most importantly, still have a sense of identity... whereby you express some kind of statement about your identity through your image. Most guys just express the identity of, "I can't be bothered, I take no pride in my appearance because I don't matter to anyone, not even myself. I am probably going to die a virgin."
As for nose picking, that was an extreme example to show Huichun that the line has got to be drawn somewhere. A nose picker cannot ever be justified in accusing others of being intolerant of his nasal mining in public - this was in direct response to Huichun's argument about people being intolerant of difference and I'm merely saying that there are things I am intolerant of (such as nose picking in public) and the vast majority of people do not have any qualms about disapproving it.
I am also quite intolerant of men who are badly dressed - most of the time, it manifests itself as an internal monologue. I was on my bike earlier on the way to the gym when I saw this guy ... I merely had a thought in my head that went, "loser! You're going to die a virgin if you dress like that!" And that was it. It doesn't go any further than that - but in the context of work, it depends really, if that same guy wanted something from me (eg. a tip for good service in a restaurant), then I would be far less likely to give it. Why? It's all got to do with first impressions - when you meet a stranger, you have no time to get to know their life story, you just have a few moments to make a snap decision based on first impressions and if there is something like really bad dress sense (or worse, body ordour, oh there was this guy in the gym with BO - yikes, I kept my distance from him tonight) - then our first impressions are going to be very poor.
Like that guy with BO at the gym. Bloody hell, could he not smell the stench from his body? My nose protested and I had to hold my breath until I had sufficient distance between me and him - then I could breathe again. But hey, somebody else may accuse me of being intolerant of people with BO and being shallow, judging people by the way they smell/stink. Guess what? Guilty as charged, so sue me for being Mr Shallow.
Hi Limpeh, pardon my ignorance but I don't understand what you mean by expressing your identity through your appearance. How would you do that?
DeleteHaha. By golf shirt, I don't mean golf shirt with those hideous patterns that are obviously for golfing. I am talking about those polo shirts. You know, tee-shirts with collars and sleeves. Hubby has no choice coz that is the required dress code at his company. As for nose picking, I was refering to Huichun's comment about intolerance as well. Yes, I am intolerant of nose pickers! Didn't their parents teach them not to? If you are Mr. Shallow, I am Ms. Intolerant. I am intolerant of poor tastes and towkays.
DeleteYour tracksuit scenario reminds me of Vicky Pollard from Little Britian.
DeleteOn a related note do you have any recommendation for winter shoes, whether smart or casual?
Exactly: Vicki Pollard loves sportswear but she does not do sports.
DeleteAs for winter shoes, I guess it is not applicable for me as it doesn't get cold enough in London for us to actually need different shoes in January! I was cycling home from the gym last night and it was +12 degrees at 9:45 pm and I was like, geez, this is like spring already and I am wearing 2 layers at night in mid-Jan, are we simply not having a winter here this year?
As for winter shoes in really cold places, I guess it depends. If you're going to work in an office, you're not going to spend 2 hours hiking through the snow so I guess walking a short distance in the snow with normal shoes on isn't going to freeze your feet off. Heck, I wore my regular shoes to Poland and Austria recently this winter and have yet to invest in winter boots as it just wasn't cold enough (ie. it was on the wrong side of -10).
Ron: Expressing your personality through your clothes means selecting a set of attire that matches your personality. There are a range of methods to do so: to begin with, if you like a certain colour, then you would naturally pick an outfit that is made up of that colour and that's a most simple way to do so. Secondly, there's a range of accessories you can don to put the right finishing touches on your composition that expresses something of you... it could be something as subtle as a ring that you bought on holiday - wearing that ring brings back happy memories and you're making that a part of your ensemble for the day. It's not just for the world to see (well, not unless you wave your fingers in front of their faces) but it's for you to know it is there, it is something you create as much for yourself.
DeleteI could go on and on about little details - but the basic principle is this: there are two motivations when people select their clothes. One is to conform to what everyone else is wearing so you don't look odd and stand out for the wrong reasons (eg. wearing two shoes that match, wearing two socks that match). The other is to stand out from the crowd and look different, so we will be noticed but hopefully, for the right reasons (eg. we may buy a quirky looking hat or a funny T-shirt for that reason). So selecting our clothes is a mix of those two motivations: if you only want to conform, you will look bland and boring. If you only want to stand out, you risk looking like a weirdo and getting stares for the wrong reason like, OMFG what is he wearing? A good blend of the two, getting the balance just right will enable you to stand out for the right reasons: so the reaction would be to stand out because people think, "hey look at that guy there, now that's classy/stylish/interesting, I like that."
I feel I could do a whole article on this and perhaps I will. I just have so much I want to cover now I am back from Austria!!
And Di: Yes context is everything and your husband has to conform with his co-workers of course in his workplace, but read my reply to Ron above about that mix of conformity and standing out.
DeleteAnd also, I refer you to Huichun's reply below and my subsequent reply to him about intolerance in Nigeria towards gays and my case study about Mr BO in the gym.
Ron: for you, http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/how-do-you-express-your-personality.html
DeleteEr. I find it strange that you say context is everything then imply that everyone should dress well. Context is of course everything.
ReplyDeleteSeparately, I find it equally strange that you are capable of leaping to an assumption that I work in an industry where I do not need to dress well.
Note - I said if I could get away with it, I would wear shorts and sandals. Clearly I can't right now. And as I noted, when meeting external parties, of course I dress appropriately.
I will say that when I worked for one of the bigger hedge funds in Chicago, I showed up to work in jeans and T shirts because I could and because dress sense was less important than skill. Given the... quality of reasoning in this article, I should emphasise that this was not how I dressed when I went for the interview.
And when I interviewed for my first job back in Singapore, I did it in jeans and a shirt, because I was on holiday and the interview was on short notice. Clearly I did not show up to the office in jeans. Context etc.
Frankly, I don't care about my appearance for one iota more than I have to. And I'm glad that in Singapore, I no longer need to wear the standard industry suit/tie combo - that I don't need to update my wardrobe every year to make sure I'm not wearing an outdated suit. Of course, other people like that - good for them. Not for me.
More importantly, I find the sense of intolerance from you and your commenter friend rather amusing. If you can believe nose picking is disgusting - which I agree many people believe it is - and it should be stopped, what about other things which many people believe to be disgusting? One example is Nigeria and its attitude to homosexuality (which for avoidance of doubt I disagree with).
No, once you start down the slope of "I don't like X, hence you shouldn't do it", you had better be prepared for all your own habits to be examined. So the answer is, ideally, we live and let live, and accept differences.
OK I just want to pick on the nose-picking analogy (pun intended) for now as I think your link to Nigeria's homophobia is not valid. Let's stick with the guy at the gym last night who has BO (has he ever heard of deodorant? I guess not). It is a gym, people exercise and sweat, but not everyone smells that bad. You know, it was one of those men who do just smell bad when they sweat, crikey.
DeleteWhat did I do when I caught a whiff of his BO? I merely walked away because I did not want to smell his BO. It was a simple solution: walk away. Within 4 or 5 meters, as long as I was facing the other way, I was fine and "out of range".
Now a truly intolerant person would go and berate him about his BO, possibly complain to the sports centre staff "I can't do sports when there's someone smelling this bad in the gym!" Another vindictive actions may have been to bitch and moan about it to other gym users, turning them against this BO guy and perhaps making snide remarks, resorting to name calling/bullying tactics.
I did none of the above. I walked away because the smell was... urgh, overwhelming. Like I had to hold my breath. Not a word was said, of course, not even eye contact was made. I merely avoided the BO guy in the gym.
What happened in Nigeria (as well as Jamaica, Uganda, Iran etc) is quite different because gays are being hounded down and attacked - people are not "walking away" from gays and leaving them alone just because they don't like gays, no they are going out of their way to hunt down gays to make life hell for gays there.
When I don't like someone for a reason like BO or nose-picking or bad dress sense, I simply walk away if possible or ignore them - but I will never cross the line into bullying them or making them feel bad for the reason they have made me disliked them. There is a difference between having an opinion about homosexuality based on whatever cultural/religious beliefs/values you may have and going out of your way to beat up/kill gays; ref: my reaction to BO guy at the gym.
Of course there's a difference. But talking about slippery slopes and unwanted behaviours puts you on a slippery slope. ;)
DeleteWhat you did is a good outcome. You walk away, agree to disagree. Because honestly, BO guy doesn't matter.
So then. Why complain about nose picking (which I am picking on too because it's a refreshingly meaningless example)
Well fortunately BO guy is just someone who appears at the gym from time to time - I don't even know his name, never talked to him before, I just recognize him by smell. Euyucks. If he was say a colleague I had to work with, I might be more inclined to try to help introduce him to the concept of deodorant. Given that he is a stranger who appears at the gym from time to time, I can easily give him a wide berth and stay at least 5 metres away from him.
DeleteAs for nose picking, it is about being aware of the consequences of your actions on those around you. Nose picking is generally something that does freak people out because they fear what comes out of another person's nose - it's generally unpleasant and has a very high gross-out factor. That is why I picked on it as an example of how we should be aware of how our actions/choices affect those around us - clothing, the way we dress, our fashion choices, has that effect too - albeit in a far more subtle manner compared to nose-picking.
DeleteNose picking is disgusting because it is done in front of me or in my view. It is dirt from your nose. The nose dirt lands somewhere in a common spot (the chairs, door handles, the ground, ...) or gets transfered to another body. Thus, it affects me and/or my loved ones. Homosexuality ... seriously? We are comparing nose picking and homosexuality? Ok, I will indulge you. Homosexuality has nothing to do with me. Two gay couples kissing in my presence does not pass their germs to me. However, when they start making out in front of my child, yes. I will have trouble with that just as I will have trouble with a hetrosexual couple making out in front of my child. Go get a room already! There are children around. What will I do with nose pickers and couples making out? I will walk away/move away. I will explain to my child that those behaviors are not appropriate. That is the extend of my intolerance. I will not lobby to pass laws against them. There are other things to worry about. On this blog, we air our views. My view is that I find nose picking in public disgusting.
Delete@Alex: As for BOs, I am with you on that. I will avoid that person like the plague. It's a pollution of your personal space. I had a boss who had BO. He was also a jerk, but that was beside the point. I avoid him whenever I could, but sometimes he was unavoidable. I think he just didn't show every day. Anyway, if he were a family member, I would have told him about it. As such, I only did what I could to protect the air around me.
As for expressing identity through what you wear, my husband has no choice but to wear the required polo shirts and khaki pants to work. He expresses his identity by wearing a lovely religious bracelet. He also wears nice funky glasses. I think that is what Alex meant. You can express yourself with little touches as not all of us have a choice in outfits due to different work contraints.
DeleteAnyone who has had to wear a school uniform can relate to what Di has just described - but do check out my latest piece on expressing oneself through fashion.
DeleteMy point is that each individual has a scale of reaction to others' behaviors. The response to those behaviors can be either public or private. Hence it is useful to look at at least two points of reaction - preferably things which have no real consequences and things which do - to see where the individual's reaction curve fits.
DeleteHence nose picking and homosexuality, which can be at very different points on the reaction curve.
When two individuals meet, their reaction functions interact. And as I said earlier, the ideal outcome is that both agree to disagree, and do not impinge on each other's freedoms.
Oh, I am sure Huichun would never pick his nose in public and I suspect he doesn't condone it either - he was just playing devil's advocate to make a point about agreeing to disagree.
DeleteOh, and by the way, two additional things.
ReplyDelete1) If you get context wrong, that's a shame. But once you leave school, you play by big boy rules. Personal responsibility etc.
2) As proof that context matters and you did not pay attention to context. In a Latin alphabet the correct transliteration is Kaishun.
Unless you're talking about Hokkien or Cantonese, how do you get from 回春 to Kaishun and not Huichun?
Deleteだから僕の本当の名前は回春ではありません
DeleteWaiting excitedly for your post on education.
ReplyDeleteI don't have anything on education in the pipeline at the moment - my next few posts are going to be on travel mostly, along with one other post about communist China during the period 1950 to 1985.
DeletePlease let me know if there is a specific issue I can write about for you, if you have anything on your mind, thanks.