Hi there guys, in today's post, I want to talk about one aspect of the transition from childhood to adulthood that is somewhat tricky. My regular readers will know that I am helping my nephew with his A level economics and I want to talk about something he has done more than once which somewhat irks me. A few weeks ago, we were looking at a case study from South Korea - the South Korean government had slashed interest rates in a bid to stimulate spending in South Korea, so we were using this case study to look at the cause & effect of how government policy on interest rates can affect the economy. I asked my nephew a question which he couldn't answer but what I got instead was an excuse from him. He claimed that his teacher in school hasn't taught him anything about South Korea, so he couldn't be expected to know the answer to that question. His response irked me because he is already 18, I expected him to take responsibility for the gaps in his knowledge. I wasn't going to scold or punish him for not knowing the answer, all I wanted him to do was to be honest about not understanding certain aspects about the topic and then I would know where to focus the future lessons. Instead I got an excuse, I don't even think it was a carefully planned out course of action - he just went into blind panic when he couldn't figure out the answer to the question, thus he then offered an excuse instead.
The reason why I reacted so badly to his 'excuse' was because he couldn't write something like, "my teacher didn't cover this topic in class, so please give me full marks for this section" in his A level exams. No, the people marking the exam scripts don't get involved at all in evaluating the quality of the teaching that the students have received - they merely mark the answers that they have in front of them. Even if the student is majorly disadvantaged by having a terrible teacher, that's still not something the examiner can fix by showing mercy and accepting this excuse. The second reason why I was upset was because this question wasn't specific about South Korea at all, it merely dealt with some very basic concepts of economics. Many countries' governments have slashed interest rates in the past in order to stimulate their economies, so you could have easily replaced 'South Korea' with the name of any other country for that question and you still had to understand how the interest rate is related to so many other aspects of how the economy functions. Hence it was a very fair question about a topic that his teacher should have already covered in class already and even if the true 'excuse' was, "my teacher is really terrible at explaining complex concepts, that's why most of the people in my class don't understand this chapter at all", offering me any kind of excuse still wouldn't have been an appropriate response in this case for another reason: he is already 18. I would accept that excuse from an 8 year old child but in my nephew's case, I am treating him like an adult as he is already 18. Oh yeah, time flies - my reader Amanda just commented recently that she thought my nephew was a lot younger but he has already turned 18 this year so he is no longer a child.
So if there was a gap in an 8 year old's knowledge and the 8 year old revealed that the teacher at school had completely missed out a chapter that was a part of the curriculum, then I wouldn't blame the young child at all and place the blame squarely on the teacher. At that age, young children are completely dependent on their parents as well as other adults in their lives such as their teachers - they are way too young to fend for themselves. But as an 18 year old, my nephew is already an adult and thus I am expecting him to act like one; sure I know I can come across as quite harsh at times but I stand by the approach I have adopted. Why do children give excuses when they think they are expecting punishment? Let me give you an example from when I was in primary school. I have a classmate whom I shall refer to as Sue, she was playing with a group of us in the playground when she ripped her uniform. When Sue's mother came to pick her up from school later that day, she noticed the damage to Sue's uniform and got angry: either she would have to try to mend the uniform or have to by a new one for Sue. Note that Sue's family were quite poor, so having to buy her a new uniform would have cost money that the family did not have, it was an unexpected expense. So Sue came up with a vivid story that she was going down the stairs when two older boys came running down the stairs and bumped into her from behind, causing her to fall down the stairs and that was how her uniform was damaged. It was a lie of course, I saw her Sue damaged her uniform when we were playing but I could see why Sue came up with that excuse. Her mother was very angry and upset at that point, so Sue needed to find a way to defuse the situation and credit to my friend Sue, it worked!
So if an 8 year old girl knows nothing about South Korea, then I wouldn't blame her - if the adults in her life (her parents, her teachers, her relatives etc) have not made an effort to introduce her to some Korean culture, then fair enough, I wouldn't expect her to know much about South Korea. But my nephew actually knows a fair amount about South Korea - he takes an interest in K-pop, he has watched some K-dramas and his parents enjoy Korean cuisine. When you put all those factors together, my nephew actually knows plenty about South Korea despite his teachers never having mentioned South Korea in the context of the classroom. This tells me two things: firstly, my nephew lacks confidence to use the knowledge that he has picked up over the years about South Korea and secondly, he still thinks that knowledge is somehow more valid if it is passed on by a teacher in a classroom compared to the way he may learn about South Korea if he watches a K-drama series or takes an active interest in Blackpink. So another reason why my nephew's response irked me was that he didn't take the initiative to try to use his knowledge of Korean culture to try to create an answer, instead he focused his efforts into giving me an excuse. Here's the thing: I've made it very clear that I would never scold or punish my nephew in my lessons as a golden rule so why did he react like Sue and scrambled to give me an excuse as if I was about to punish him for not knowing the right answer? So, is this a cultural thing or just a sign of immaturity? Or could this be even a lack of social skills when dealing with a situation when you can't answer a question?
But I have another theory about this: perhaps my nephew isn't really offering me that excuse at all, maybe my opinion of him doesn't matter that much to him - rather, he is offering that excuse to himself to try to feel better about the situation. It is a coping mechanism when people feel inadequate and they're trying to reassure themselves that it is not their fault. I remember doing exactly that when I was a teenager in Singapore training gymnastics: there were times when I had a bad session and I would leave the gym feeling extremely frustrated. My brain would then automatically start finding excuses: I blamed everything and everyone from the equipment to my coach to my team mates to the gymnastics association to my parents - I blamed anyone but myself; I think I reacted like that because the alternative would be to accept that I was not talented enough to succeed in this sport and that I should just give up. Let me be the first to admit that this was not only a very immature way to deal with the situation but also the wrong way: if I had taken responsibility for the poor results during my training, I could then take control of the situation. If I am the cause of the problem, then I can then fix myself to make the problem go away and in so doing, I can then take charge of the situation. However, if I constantly blamed others instead, it could be a short-term solution to make myself feel better about the situation (such as a bad training session when nothing goes right), but in the long run, it would cultivate a very passive and unhelpful attitude when faced with any kind of problem. One should instead focus on fixing the problem rather than appropriating blame - the former would get us closer to a solution, whilst the latter does not bring us a step closer to a better outcome.
So please allow me to put myself in my nephew's shoes for a moment: I remember I was at an event in Brussels (this was back in the pre-Covid days) when I met someone who started talking to be about cryptocurrencies, let's call him Mr Malta (since he is Maltese). Admittedly, I don't know enough about it - it has simply an area of finance that I had never taken much of an interest in and here I was talking to an expert. Did I start making excuses about why I didn't know enough about cryptocurrencies? No, after all, Mr Malta wasn't going to scold me or punish me for that - we're not in the same situation as Sue and her mother after she had damaged her school uniform. Instead, I simply turned the situation around by asking Mr Malta to tell me more about his area of expertise and I showed interest by demonstrating that I was happy for him to teach me more about a topic that he was clearly very passionate about. In fact, Mr Malta was more than happy to have that conversation with me, it wasn't awkward at all since I was asking him plenty of intelligent questions about how cryptocurrencies worked and more importantly, how Mr Malta has managed to make so much money from trading Bitcoin. I don't know all that much about cryptocurrencies but it didn't matter - I just asked Mr Malta plenty of questions and he did the answering. So what my nephew could have done was simply acknowledge, "uncle Alex, you know so much about South Korea, please teach me more about South Korea," before asking me some more questions about South Korea. That would have been a carbon copy of the approach I took with Mr Malta; it requires a mix of social skills and street smarts to know just how to handle situations like that without feeling the urge to offer any kind of excuse.
I think there's also an aspect of self-confidence at play here: I wasn't afraid to admit to Mr Malta that my knowledge was lacking when it came to cryptocurrencies because I was good at other things (that he knew little about); we acknowledged that we were simply two guys working in quite different parts of the financial services industry and had very different skill sets. Mr Malta then spent some time asking me what I did for a living, thus we both realized that I could not do what Mr Malta did and likewise, he couldn't do what I did. I wasn't ashamed of not knowing enough about cryptocurrencies and Mr Malta wasn't ashamed either about not knowing much about debt capital markets. I suppose it is somewhat unfair to compare that to the situation with my nephew where I am playing the role of the teacher whilst he is the student - of course it is taken for granted that I know more than him (otherwise I have no business being his teacher), but it is his tendency to offer an excuse that bothers me. This begs the question: why is he doing it? Is he often subject to punishment by his teachers in school if he didn't know the right answer, hence the instinct to react the way Sue did when it came to her damaged school uniform? If children come across as overly defensive, it suggests that they are not relaxed and comfortable, that this defensiveness is caused by an anxiety about a possibility of punishment. It does make me wonder why my nephew feels the need to get defensive with me even over a topic like that? After all, if he knew all the answers then he wouldn't need my help with his economics syllabus. Was he afraid that I would judge him harshly for not knowing the answer to that question about South Korea? Or have I come across as such an unapproachable uncle?!
But allow me to give you another scenario which is somewhat different: my friend Andy was coming to London and I told him that he could stay with me whilst he was in town. I had expected his flight to land at 5 pm and for him to arrive at my place by 7 pm at the very latest, at which point we were supposed to have gone out for dinner together. I waited and waited, no sign of Andy and finally at around 8 pm, I get a text message from him that his plane was delayed and that he had only just touched down at Heathrow airport. When I finally met him much later, he told me that there was a drunk and disruptive passenger during the boarding of the flight which resulted in the police boarding the flight and removing that disruptive passenger before the plane was finally able to take off, causing a further delay since the plane had missed their take-off slot. Andy's plane sat on the runway for what seemed like a very long time before it was finally able to take off; so how would you classify that story? Is it a reasonable explanation as to why his flight was delayed? Or was it an excuse to make it clear to me that it wasn't his fault that he turned up so late? Obviously it was clear that Andy wasn't responsible for the delay to that flight, so I couldn't blame him for ruining our dinner plans that evening. After all, it was clear that Andy was late because his flight was delayed and I was curious to find out what caused the delay - he volunteered that piece of information not so much to deflect blame for turning up late, but because I had asked him for that piece of information. Will you consider that an 'excuse' then, or just an explanation as to why the flight was delayed?
This then begs the question: is there ever a good time to use an excuse? Let's go back to my old classmate Sue - her uniform was already damaged, she didn't just use an excuse to avoid an punishment, she outright lied to her mother. Her actions made sense - after all, a scolding and/or a beating from her mother wasn't going to make things any better, so she may as well tell a little white lie to make her mother feel less angry about the situation. Likewise, I had a forgetful episode recently - I told my husband I was going to the supermarket and he asked me if I could get some tomatoes. I said sure, I then went to the supermarket, got distracted and promptly forgot to get him the tomatoes he had asked for. Instead of telling the truth, I said, "there were very few tomatoes left in the supermarket by the time I got there - they all looked rather bruised and over-ripe. We have plenty of other vegetables in the fridge and I'll get you the tomatoes tomorrow. I will make sure I go to the supermarket earlier tomorrow." Did I lie and come up with an excuse just like Sue did? Yes, of course I did. Admitting that I forgot the tomatoes might just cause a lot more angst - I would then be admitting that I was disorganized and forgetful, I should have written it down and made a shopping list. In both cases, the excuse made the other party feel better about the situation. I definitely believe that there are times when you can quite justifiably use an excuse or even make up one that is entirely fictitious if the end result is one that is more desirable than simply telling the truth. However, did my nephew's excuse make me feel better about the situation? No it didn't, not at all.
In fact, I use excuses all the time at work - a few days ago, I was reading my emails at lunchtime when I realized I had completely missed one that came in very early in the morning from one of my directors. I had no idea why I didn't see that email, the truth is it was just one of those mornings when I had so many emails I somehow missed one and it had to be that one from my director. Since we're mostly working from home these days because of the pandemic, I didn't want him to think that I was being very lazy and only getting out of bed in time for lunch! So instead, I told him that I saw that email first thing in the morning but had not answered it as one of my clients in Taiwan had a rather urgent issue so I had been on the phone with her for much of the morning trying to help her resolve that issue. My director simply said, "sure of course, don't worry Alex - always deal with the clients first before answering internal emails - they are our priority." Once again, simply being totally honest would have only gotten me into more trouble because it would have given my director the impression that I was rather disorganized. Hence my excuse made my director feel a lot better about the situation, after having waited a few hours for me to answer a simple email. Thus I'm not against people using excuses at all, but I think you have to be very clear what your objective is. If the outcome is going to improve when you deploy the right excuse, then sure, by all means do come up with the best excuse for the situation. However, I don't think my nephew has mastered this fine art of using excuses this way yet - it is just another facet of social skills that he does need to work on.
I would compare the use of excuses to the bottle of light soy sauce I have in my kitchen. I use it for a range of dishes but really only when it would improve the flavour. Recently I made a vegetable soup that was a bit bland, so I gave it a splash of soy sauce to give it that umami kick. There are times when I can use it but I won't because it is unlikely to make much of a difference, such as when I make a pot of curry - it would be pointless adding soy sauce to that as there are already so many strong flavours going on in the pot, the soy sauce would be completely lost in there. Then there are times when it would only make things worse: sometimes I would buy a nice tub of vanilla ice cream and then make it exciting by adding toppings like chopped walnuts, dried cranberries and matcha powder to create my own sundae. However, would I put soy sauce on my vanilla ice cream? Hell no, I have seen recipes for some kind of soy-infused salted caramel ice cream before but to simply splash soy sauce onto vanilla ice cream is bad idea! An experienced chef will know when to use the soy sauce appropriately, it is when it will improve the dishes but not waste it on something like a curry or ruin a perfectly good bowl of vanilla ice cream. I'm afraid in this aspect, my nephew is like an inexperienced chef who pours soy sauce on everything whether it will improve the recipe or not. He has no idea when it would be appropriate to offer an excuse and when it is better to be totally honest. If he didn't know the answer to the question, all he had to do was say, "uncle Alex I don't understand this topic - could you explain this to me please?" Well, that is precisely what I am there for.
So that's it from me on this issue, what do you guys think? Are you someone who always uses excuses be it at work or with your family and friends or perhaps you know someone like that? How do those excuses make you feel about the situation? Do you think it is unethical to outright lie when coming up with an excuse? Or do you think lying is perfectly justified as long as you make the other person feel better about the situation? Why are students like my nephew putting too much faith in their teachers instead of taking their own initiative to learn? Why do you think children feel the urge to always give an excuse and how do we train them to come up with a better response? Furthermore, how would you distinguish between a reasonable explanation and an excuse? Do leave a comment below and many thanks for reading.
From the viewpoint of my supervisor (or parents), any statements which they disagree with automatically is construed as an excuse.
ReplyDeleteFor example, point out to my dad that he is so fortunate to be born in the correct era in Singapore which enabled him to raise 3 kids and purchase a HDB with the (now defunct) walk-in scheme on a single income. This is no longer possible in current day Singapore not only because HDB is build-to-order only (for new flats) but also because wage increase has not kept pace with the super high increase of housing prices. He will just say that you are lazy, not hardworking enough and finding excuses for not starting a family even though you are in your 40s.
This could apply to work. The MRT might breakdown that day and you arrive late. Yet your supervisor will say that is just an excuse for not planning in a buffer time for your travel. In fact some minister even specifically mention that Singaporeans should plan for MRT failures when traveling around Singapore so that we don't end up late.
The conclusion is that as long as you are not in a position of power, you can never win.
Oh my, what you said about the MRT breakdown reminds me of what I was told when I was working in my very first job. Back then, I lived near a station in West London where there were 4 trains an hours. I worked out that if I got the 8:08 train in the morning, I could easily get to the office by about 8:55, in time for a 9 am start. My boss then claimed, "what if the 8:08 am train is not there? You should aim for a train before 8 am so you know you definitely will be here on time." I then argued that train time tables are there for a reason, they are meant to be reliable not a work of fiction for us to read whilst we pass the time waiting for the next train. And more to the point, the 8:08 am train had yet to let me down, it was a rush hour service that had proven to be quite reliable. And yup, he accused me of being lazy and finding excuses for not willing to wake up earlier to get to the office on time. Looking back at those days, woah, I am grateful that I am able to work from home these days. I do not miss running for the 8:08 am train.
DeleteAs for the HDB situation, well your dad is an idiot who is incapable of presenting a cogent argument in response to the very valid points you have raised. Of course the conditions are different, the market conditions were very different a generation ago and if he refuses to acknowledge that, then that makes him an idiot not your worth time and energy.
There is a Chinese proverb to describe this: 生在福中不知福. Back then having a Diploma was so valuable that you can easily get a high paying job. My dad basically worked with 1 company till retirement. I bet he never had to do constant skills upgrading and lifelong learning.
DeleteA degree is now so commonplace that a graduate with a middling grade will not be able to land a job. Entry level work requires 2-3 years of experience with many trending technology. In fact even with my 2 qualifications in 2 highly skilled and in-demand industries still doesn't guarantee that i can easily land a high paying job. I seriously wonder how those foreigners with degrees from degree mills are able to easily snag a 5 figure a month job.
Aaaah I was about to type a reply when I realized that I have done a post to address this issue already: https://limpehft.blogspot.com/2019/07/were-people-genuinely-better-off.html?view=sidebar
DeleteI don't want to generalise anything but looking at the extreme income inequality and you would know there is a problem, globally. Why are there so many billionaires in a country with people working 2-3 jobs? In fact it is human nature to be selfish. So many people got rich with property then they pulled up the ladder and said I've got mine, now screw you. SG now has so many so-called cooling measure like additional stamp duty, not allowing you to purchase private property without selling your HDB, etc. Previously no such regulations were in place so there are so many rich landlord going around calling millennials spoiled and entitled.
DeleteWell let be steer this conversation towards a political solution: if you vote in a more left-wing government, then their solution would be to tax the rich in order to redistribute the wealth to the poor - just like Robin Hood would. If you vote in a right-wing government, then they would protect the rich and allow the inequality to widen. There are so many countries with such wide wealth gaps (the UK for example, where there is a massive problem of inequality), yet the poorest people often vote for the most rich wing politicians who do nothing to help them - they sabotage the poor whilst encouraging them to blame the immigrants and other enemies of the state for the state of the economy.
DeleteI don't think you can rely on the kindness of humans to redress this situation of wealth inequality - nah, humans are fucking bastards, we're all a bunch of fucking evil wankers, I have zero faith in humanity, we're all fucking evil assholes. If we start from that understanding that humans are essentially fucking evil assholes who have no capacity for kindness, then you need a sensible government to step in and get the rich to cough up money in terms of taxes so that the money can be spent on programmes to help the poor attain social mobility. Only a good left-wing government can achieve the kind of change you hope to see but the problem with democracy is that a lot of poor people are duped into voting for right wing parties because, well some poor people are idiots who are easily manipulated: a classic case of turkeys voting for Christmas.
Hmmm, I reread what I wrote and it is not that people are downright fucking evil demons, but they are selfish. Imagine this situation: we're in a temporary refugee camp in the middle of the desert where 100 refugees have just crossed the border. Conditions are very harsh and there is not enough water for everyone in the camp - a man wanders off into the desert because the crowded refugee camp is getting overwhelming for him, but after a short ten minute walk, he discovers a small natural spring - there is a tiny amount of fresh water coming out of the spring there. It is not enough water for everybody but at least it will be enough to make sure that he will never go thirsty when he is stuck there. But if everybody came to the spring for water, then it will run out very quickly. So what do you think this man do in this case?
DeleteA) Keep the discovery of the spring a secret and not tell anybody about it.
B) Share the secret with his closest family/friends and run the small risk that they might spread the location of the 'secret' spring
C) Tell everyone in the refugee camp of the spring (knowing the consequence of that is that it will probably run dry very quickly)
You that he will never choose C) but the most likely outcome is A) or B) because humans are inherently selfish - we want to take care of ourselves and our loved ones before we even contemplate sharing. And even if we do share, it is pretty much conditional: we would share if we know there is excess. So if the man discovered a huge spring supplying enough water for everyone, then he would gladly tell all the other refugees. The same way I do donate my old clothes to the local charity shop - the charity shops sell them and all the proceeds go to the charity. But these are old clothes I no longer need, wear or want so I am happy to give them away, but would I be willing to give away my favourite suits and shirts? No, because I would want them for myself. Such is human nature. We are selfish creatures.
The post-Trump world has shown me that voting to change governments is never going to happen. Look at Myanmar and India who are descending further into authoritarianism. Also the failed democracies of US and UK.
DeleteI wouldn't say "need" is a bad thing, but "greed" is. The hypothetical refugee who found that spring clearly isn't greedy, he is clearly extremely thirsty and would die if everyone drunk that spring dry. What I find evil is if the UN provides funds to house refugees and the people at the top use it to buy ferraris for themselves.
DeleteHi guys, allow me to respond to you both:
Delete@Choaniki - the thing about the UK is that the right wing press is in bed with the right wing politicians (and their supporters in the business world) and they have a mutual goal of seeing a world where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer: nurses have just been offered a 1% pay rise after a year fighting Covid-19 and the prime minister is trying to justify why this is a reasonable number. This is exactly what happens when dumb poor people read the right wing press and then get convinced that socialism is a bad thing when socialism is the one thing that poor people need to improve their lives. This is why my reaction to all this is to simply focus on making more money - as an individual, I can't change the way politics is run but what I can do is make sure I have enough money so I can always be alright. A lot of people do share that same view, so they end up becoming so focused on accumulating wealth and the cumulative result of all that is a selfish society where nobody is willing to share their wealth with the poor, or at least they do so on a very selective basis. The only way to solve this problem en masse is for a more left-wing government to step in and redistribute wealth, but to do that they first have to win the votes of the poor who are too stupid to do what is right for them, ie. turkeys voting for Christmas again.
@Amanda Yes there is a huge amount of selfishness, corruption and greed in countries from Venezuela, Equitorial Guinea, Nigeria etc where they have vast amounts of natural resources and the country has enough wealth for everyone to live like they are in Western Europe, but a tiny elite in power hoard the wealth for themselves and do not share any of it - leading to a situation where even those who are trying to provide money to help the refugees think, "what's the point of me donating if this money is only going to end up in the pockets of some corrupt politician who is going to then stash it away in his Swiss bank account".
@LIFT talking about corrupt countries, don't get me started on wealthy Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia who funded terrorists, wages a proxy war in Yemen, export their extreme brand of Wahabist Islamic teaching worldwide; there is also Qatar who basically depend on South Asian and Nepali slave labour to build entire cities for the upcoming World Cup; then we have UAE which has lazy civil servants getting paid to do nothing so depends on 60%+ of FT to run the country for them they also proceeds to jail them for bad debts because bankruptcy doesn't exist, and Dubai imprisoned Airline transit passagers who consume alcohol without a license.
DeleteI could go on but you get the point.
Of course, I agree with what you're saying: of course they are corrupt, that's a simple fact. But why don't these Muslim countries vote for a more moderate, left wing and progressive government then who will manage things better? The simple answer is that the poorest people in any country tend to be the most religious. In America, the rich have their money to indulge in all kinds of super fun (but very expensive) leisure activities on a Sunday, the poor go to church because it is free to attend and they can't afford anything else. Even if these countries have some kind of democracy to determine who forms their government, the poor people there vote for the wrong party because they are duped by those in power and those controlling their religion. I can make a comparison with Singapore - the PAP get away with what they do because Singaporeans are enablers: they allow the PAP to do what they want knowing that most of the Singaporeans are too dumb to vote for the opposition party at the next election. So you have a complex relationship between a corrupt government and their enablers and I say both parties are in cahoots; even if that's a massively unequal relationship where the enablers often are a lot worse off by participating in this relationship. This is similar to a wife who gets beaten by her husband everyday, but she enables him to do so by apologizing to him after each beating and refusing to even ask for help from her friends and family.
DeleteLet me use a simple analogy to illustrate the power dynamics: if we had a bag of sweets and a class of primary school students, can we trust the students to share the sweets equally amongst themselves? No, they kids will probably fight for the sweets and the toughest bullies will get most of the sweets whilst most of the other weaker kids will get a punch in the face in the scuffle but walk away with no sweets at all. The only way to ensure that the tough bullies share the sweets with everyone equally and fairly is if a teacher manages the distribution of the sweets. You then need to have of course a sensible teacher who has the morals to do that job fairly with some integrity, rather than running away with the whole packet of sweets (cos hey, those sweets are actually quite delicious).
Y'know some of this is playing out in the US this very moment. Recently we had a winter storm that knocked out the power in Texas but not other states. It turns out Texas privatized their power industry, and private companies didn't invest in winter proof powerplants to save money. So now we have a few dozen Texans dead, and many households with broken pipes needing 1000s of dollars in plumbing repairs. Texas even had a senator who fled Texas for Cancun just before the winter storm. Yet poor rural people in Texas will still vote republican, while the rich areas in Texas in the major cities vote democrat. I kinda think poor people only vote republican because it's the only party that says "being selfish is good." Socialism may benefit the poor but one does have to give up some portion of their money when they get wealthier to pay it forward, nobody wants to do this unless they have to. Democrats who grew up in major cities have been given many government benefits (e.g schools, hospitals, public transport, etc.) without receiving welfare per se that they think this is a worthy investment. Alex I think you appreciate public transport in London very much, as well as public universities even if you pay more taxes than most Brits. Rural americans have very sparse government services so don't see the advantage of socialism, only the disadvantages(higher tax, less freedom, etc.).
DeleteHello Amanda, yes of course I am familiar with the shit show that is the Texas situation with the Republicans blaming the failure of their grid on everything from migrants to a green energy deal to sabotage etc when really, it was the greedy energy companies who thought, nah it rarely ever snows in Texas so we won't spend money investing in making our system winter-proof. But these right wing voters are dumb enough to drink Trump's kool aid, they will believe whatever they are told by their political leaders. In the era of fake news, the dumb get dumber. Gosh it is very hard to save some of these dumb people from their own stupidity but what can you do? They are part of the problem because they are so easily manipulated as their minds are so simple and so they perpetuate the problem becoming the turkeys that routinely vote for Christmas.
DeleteAnd you're right about the attitude towards socialism; no matter how poor you are, there's always someone poorer than you. So poor families with unemployed adults surviving on benefits are told that if they vote for a left-wing government (ie. more socialism), the government will reduce what little benefits they are receiving and give that to refugees they have rescued in the war zones halfway across the world. Yeah it's not hard to manipulate these stupid poor people into believing that they will be worse off under socialism when they are the ones who desperately need a proper redistribution of wealth from rich to poor. I don't think people actually sit down and do a calculation, a cost benefit analysis about which system would benefit them more - they think they know but really, their minds are made up already because they are hugely influenced by the media they consume. For me, I have taken a stance where I position myself on the political spectrum because it represents my identity and what kind of world I want to live in, but for the poor people, nah they're too brainwashed to know what to think, so they drink the kool aid and there are plenty of people lining up to brainwash them. Talk about trying to protect the stupid from their own stupidity.
I didn't think about the refugee part deterring working class voters from voting left wing. But come to think of it, the average Trump voter who is unemployed and lives in a disadvantaged area is probably not going to like Biden's plan to give a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, because that would make even more people eligible for public benefits which means less to go around. During the coronavirus pandemic the US unemployment insurance system was already inundated with applicants that people had to call 50 times a day for several days just to receive their money. Hmm this makes me understand why some progressive-leaning countries like Denmark have turned anti-immigrant/anti-refugee. Even with generous welfare they still have poverty, and the welfare system isn't perfect so it is easy for a far-right politician to blame the migrants to get votes. When you have very little its really easy to scare one to think it could be gone tomorrow if any political change happens.
DeleteBtw, there are just as many middle and upper class republican voters though. My brother is one, and he said he would vote for Trump if he was a citizen because "its better for the economy." But then again my brother is a high earning upper-middle class Asian who will never be the target of the anti-Asian racist violence that Trump has drummed up, and it benefits him to cut welfare so he pays less taxes. Also, during the winter storm things weren't that bad for my family in Texas because they lived in a wealthy metro area that was well maintained and had plenty of services around them. People in poorer neighborhoods or rural areas were much worse affected by the storm. I love my brother, but some political statements he makes sounds very privileged, though many republican voters are like him.
Hi Amanda, I had already covered the issue of the poverty of the Trump voters here: https://limpehft.blogspot.com/2020/12/q-why-do-poor-americans-vote-for-trump.html But it was a way for me to demonstrate to you how you can scare the poorest family in the UK or US into voting for the right wing party quite easily with some scaremongering - these people are clinging on to survival, barely having enough to get by and if you tell them that voting left wing will make them worst off because what little they're getting from the government will go to immigrants and refugees. Oh yeah, that's why deprived, poor neighbourhoods in America are regularly voting for the Republic party.
DeleteIt is not just Denmark but Sweden and Germany who have seen a wave of anti-immigrant/refugee sentiments - allow me to talk about Sweden and their experience since I know this story well. In the early days like 1970s, when Sweden took in the refugees, they would spread them out all over the country, make sure they're the only non-Swedish family in the village/town, the kids would be the only foreigners in school and so they are forced to learn Swedish and assimilate. Sounds cruel but it worked, sure they felt isolated for a few months whilst struggling to learn a new language but after that initial transition they assimilated a lot more quickly. Kinda like throwing a non-swimmer into the deep end to teach them how to swim. But when Sweden took in more and more refugees, ghettos started to form in the bigger cities where the refugees realized that they could congregate in big enough numbers to form communities without learning Swedish and assimilating. That's when the youths who are unemployed start forming gangs and getting into trouble with the law by indulging in criminal activities. The original system to manage the refugees and force them to assimilate was no longer sustainable when the numbers got so big.
This is why we're seen as the model minority in US/UK - we speak English and can find work; perhaps to you and I, that doesn't seem like a big deal but think about the situation in Sweden where many of the asylum seekers don't speak any Swedish. Thus it isn't hard to turn people like your brother into a right wing supporter, when right wing politicians talk about letting in the right kind of migrants rather than the most needy asylum seekers from war torn countries. They then turn the whole immigration thing into a business model ("let's get more doctors from India") as opposed to a humanitarian gesture to help those suffering the most.
I think the left vs right wing voters can be analogous to scientists vs conspiracy theorists. On one hand you have to study hard to gather evidence and analyse policies to determine if it would work for the country, on the other hand you just need to fear-monger and post fake news on social media.
DeleteBeing a scientist and left wing voter is more involved and since people are generally lazy they would rather be that crazy nut posting rubbish on facebook and voting in crazies like Trump. This would probably explain the education level and religious leaning between left and right wing voters.
Absolutely, I see knowledge and information as such a powerful tool - it empowers you, I know this is a cliche but knowledge is power. I have grown up in an era when we couldn't just Google stuff to find out what we needed. I remember this incident from 1992 when someone at my gym and I had a disagreement about the lyrics of the song 3 AM Eternal by KLF - this was way back in the pre-internet pre-Google era and we were arguing about what the singer had sung in one of the lines (turns out we were both wrong, duh) but isn't it liberating just to be able to go to Google and search for "3 AM Eternal lyrics" today and be put out of our ignorance? What just shocks me is the fact that people now have this power yet they are too fucking stupid to use this power and fall prey to fake news, leading them to become even more stupid. At least in the past, back in 1992, I walked away from that argument having had doubt cast in my mind about what the singer had sung in that line but at least my conclusion was, "I don't know, I can't tell for sure - my conversation with that guy has convinced me that I could be wrong in what I thought I heard." Being ready to admit that you don't know is an important step to empowering yourself with the right information - the problem today is that so many idiots think they know when their brains are full of fake news, half truths and misleading misinformation; there's actually quite a lot in there but very little accurate and useful information.
DeleteActually there is cognitive bias called confirmation bias where people only look up or believe whatever information that fits their worldview. So you know the sort of people who say that they saw that news on Facebook or Whatsapp so it must be true. They probably already believe all sorts of fake conspiracy theories so will only seek out information to confirm their belief.
DeleteYeah I was wondering what happened to Sweden and their good record of integrating immigrants. You even wrote an article about this once during the Syrian refugee crisis talking to someone in Sweden whose parents came over 20 years ago. I talk to some of my Belgium and Dutch friends who are in their 20s and they have such a negative view of immigrants. They think any immigrant from a poor country, particularly Africa or the Middle East, only wants to come to Europe to live in ghettos, collect welfare, and do crime. What further surprises me is like you said, most people don't mind rich and well-educated immigrants, even poor locals don't mind them.
DeleteI also see this discrimination with regards to international students. Countries only want rich foreign university students who can provide jobs for the local economy, not poor foreign students seeking a better life that would compete with locals for the same jobs. The thing is although I acknowledge this is good business, I don't think its sustainable like the case of Australia's dependence on Chinese foreign students. Politically and economically a country shouldn't rely on rich foreign kids while neglecting local talented kids who may not be as rich but would be able to make scientific discoveries or start businesses in the future. But that's short term vs. long term thinking.
@Choaniki - perhaps it is then a question of intelligence, with this much information out there one needs to have the discipline of a PhD student doing their research in order to separate the fake news from the useful information. Smart people have no problem doing that whilst dumb people would be easily duped and manipulated. One can't cure stupidity, there isn't a vaccine for that. And of course, we have seen how this has been taken to an extreme, with some Americans living in an alternate reality with alternative facts believing that Trump won the last election and is still their president. Yeah right. I can't fix this, nobody can, cos you're talking about curing stupidity.
Delete@Amanda: when Sweden had fewer refugees, they had a good record of forcing them to assimilate. The woman I had interviewed spoke Swedish as a first language, English as a second language and Persian as a third language - that's how assimilated she is to the point where her mother tongue has become her third language. Nowadays you get asylum seekers in Sweden who speak no Swedish at all and at best might have a smattering of English, they have no intention to assimilate and it is technology that is the problem. In the 1980s, there was no Google translate, they had to learn Swedish and if they wanted to watch TV, it was only Swedish programmes on TV. The conditions forced them to learn Swedish really quickly but nowadays, they use the internet to watch TV programmes in their native language and use Google translate to avoid learning Swedish. I can see why your Belgian and Dutch friends have a poor view of migrants, it's the same problem everywhere in Europe. My personal view is I think that they have a social contract to assimilate if they want to live here, if they're not willing to do that, then we are not obliged to even allow them to live here in the first place.
Assimilation is a pretty touchy topic. I think the least one can expect is that an immigrant learn the local language and work to support themselves if only to reduce the crime rate in their area. Crime tends to flourish in impoverished communities.
DeleteBut this problem sounds like it isn't easy to fix overnight. Prevention really is the best cure. I remember when France won the world cup in 2018 Emmanuel Macron was talking about incentivizing companies to provide apprenticeships in the immigrant majority "banlieus" where a lot of the world cup winning players grew up in. Though that is a start, it probably won't fix things immediately.
It's a tricky topic of course: a country can pick and choose the most highly skilled, most highly qualified migrants and give them visas, that's exactly what many countries have done in the past few decades. If you are a highly skilled healthcare professional, then no problem - here's your visa and welcome! But the people causing the problems in Sweden, Denmark, Germany are not the migrants who came in this way, it is those who are given asylum on the basis of their humanitarian need - ie. they have fled a country at war and if you forcefully repatriate them, then you'll be sending them to certain death. These northern European countries have offered asylum to people fleeing war and so some of these people are uneducated, unskilled and unable to assimilate, unable to find jobs, unable to learn a new language, unable to be a useful member of society. But there must be a better way to handle the situation and I think Sweden from the 1970s and 1980s provided a sensible solution - keep the numbers manageable, spread them out, force them to assimilate and that model did work for Sweden, at least back in the 1970s and 1980s when there were far, far fewer refugees seeking asylum there.
DeleteSad to say but the UN convention on refugees was not designed for the 21st century. It was designed for the post WW2 era where it was much easier for an unskilled uneducated migrant who doesn't speak the local language to obtain a job. Even local born college graduates in the 21st century can struggle to find a job due to robot automation and software. I don't think it's just a numbers problem since there were just as many refugees in WW2 who fled to America as there are Syrian refugees in 2015, and there were immigrant enclaves in the US but there wasn't mass unemployment. I see why healthcare workers find it easy to migrate, its a very difficult job to automate or train a human for so it's in high demand.
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