Hi there guys, even if you're not in the UK you must have heard about the PR disaster of the century that is "Fatima's next job" - essentially, a British government programme CyberFirst sent out a photo of a ballerina with the caption "Fatima's next job could be in cyber. She just doesn't know it yet." The context for this is that millions of people in the UK are currently unemployed because theatres, cinemas and other entertainment venues are currently shut because of Covid-19 and if you're a ballet dancer, well you're in trouble because there's no work. Even if you are allowed to get back into the dance studio to train, it is going to be very difficult for venues to sell tickets to the next performance of Swan Lake because venues have to enforce social distancing in the audience and that means selling far fewer tickets whilst deliberately spacing the audience out - under such circumstances, most venues find it virtually impossible to make any kind of profit and thus have opted not to reopen until further notice. As a consequence, ballet dancers are out of work and so the government has a choice to either such performers a living wage to enable them to keep training until a time when entertainment venues can open again under pre-pandemic conditions or they can say, "forget ballet, it's time for a career change." They claim that the "Rethink. Reskill. Reboot" was a long term campaign to get more young people into IT rather than a response to Covid-19. This poster went down really badly on social media and it sparked a whole range of memes which placed top government officials in the ad because this government has been woefully incompetent in the handling of this Covid-19 pandemic, like seriously - Boris Johnson our PM has been such a total fucking idiot whose incompetence has led to us having one of our highest Covid death rates in the world. So the public has done the very British thing and attacked the government using their own ad campaign and needless to say, this is a classic PR disaster.
Allow me to discuss the different shapes of the hierarchy in different industries: in some industries, you're looking at a pyramid - so allow me to use a simple analogy of a car factory. So you have the assembly line workers who are the lowest paid and in the middle of the pyramid, you have the managers who are making sure that the assembly line workers are doing their jobs properly - they are paid more because their duties may include training the most junior staff. Then at the top of the pyramid are the highest paid of them all, the directors in management, responsible for the entire business. Some assembly line workers may eventually get promoted into middle-level management after many years, but very few of them will eventually make it into management. Hence that creates a pyramid shaped structure where there are very few extremely well paid jobs at the very top of the pyramid, a limited number of well paid jobs in the middle and plenty of quite lowly paid jobs at the very bottom. Showbiz however does not follow this kind of pyramid structure, instead the household object that most resembles what we observe in showbiz is the pin cushion. So for those of you not familiar with it, a pin cushion is a little device that we use in sewing whereby with stick our needles and pins in there when we're not using them, it is a safe way to store these long, sharp, pointy objects. My friend Gerald did a West End musical here in London some years back with Dannii Minogue (sister of Kylie Minogue) who is a fairly famous singer/actress - it is quite common for these big shows to feature a celebrity as there are many people who would go see the show because they are big fans of this celebrity. Most of the cast and the crew were barely making about £350 to £400 a week whilst working on the show but Dannii Minogue was being paid an undisclosed 5-figure sum a week and she made more in a month than what my friend made in a year. That is the pin cushion model: big stars like Dannii Minogue are on top of the pin that extends way up from the cushion, whilst people like Gerald were on the cushion itself.
The assembly-line worker in the car factory may not have a particular fun or interesting job, but at least his chances of getting promoted to become a line manager is pretty high if he sticks to his job and works hard at the factory for many years. Conversely, Gerald had a good time working on that West End musical - singing and dancing on stage every night for a living sounds like a pretty fun way to make a living compared to working very long hours in the car factory. However, his odds of getting 'promoted' are low because of a few problems associated with showbiz: firstly, there are very few well-paid jobs in showbiz compared to the poorly paid jobs - someone like Gerald can work his butt-off, trying his best, attending every acting, dancing and singing class there is out there and still not get the big roles. Whereas the odds of the assembly-line worker getting promoted to line manager is actually quite a lot higher than Gerald's chances of landing a big part. And let's say Gerald gets lucky and lands a big part in a film - that simply means that he gets some well paid work whilst shooting that film for a few weeks, then what? Just because he lands one big role doesn't mean he has magically made it and he will keep getting big roles from then one. In the music business, there is the famous term "one hit wonder" describing singers who have had one massive hit but failed to find any success after that despite trying desperately hard. Whereas one your assembly-line worker gets promoted to line manager, he is guaranteed a better pay package with that promotion - so whether he is loyal to his employers or decides to go work for another car factory as a line manager, he now commands a higher pay that reflects that promotion. So employees of that car factory are guaranteed a pay check at the end of the month whilst actors go from gig to gig, having a lot more fun but completely sacrificing any concept of financial security in an industry which is fickle - where success is fleeting and hard to sustain.
This is why many people who go into showbiz have very rich parents - basically if none of it works out, that's okay, daddy and mummy are still very rich and can support them. Whereas for poorer working class kids, they simply don't have that luxury - even if they don't have to support their own parents, they still have bills to pay. That's why a lot of working class people are less keen to go into showbiz once they are confronted with a grim reality of how difficult it is to make a living in this industry and would opt for something a lot more stable and less glamorous - such as working in a car factory. I certainly don't have rich parents who could support me and as an immigrant here in the UK, I suppose there was a point I wanted to make to my friends and family back home in Singapore: I didn't want to be seen as a failure, as someone who came to the UK only to end up desperately poor by picking a career path that was extremely difficult. To be honest, if I am trying to make myself sound rational then that is a misrepresentation of the situation - let's go back to that fateful night I made the decision to become an actor back in October 2004. I had a reasonably well paid office job then but I was seriously unhappy where I was - the money was rather good but I felt I wasn't getting anywhere and I didn't get along well with the people at work, I didn't like the management either. So one Sunday night, the thought about going into work the next morning was so depressing that I couldn't sleep at all - so suddenly it hit me in the middle of the night as I was staring at the ceiling: I knew what I had to do, I had to resign and become an actor the very next day, just like that. I did exactly that and thankfully, I had friends who are actors so they told me how to get started in the industry like how to get an agent. Was that a rational decision? No, it was a highly emotional, irrational decision but yes it was the right decision.
After a few years of trying to make things work in showbiz, I realized that it was virtually impossible to make ends meet in showbiz - that was when I returned to finance on a part time basis. Having already worked in finance in the past and with plenty of relevant, useful skills to offer, I was able to find part time work in banking pretty easily. I saw first hand how many actors struggled for years - there was nothing romantic about being a poor, struggling actor. I had a friend in his 50s who didn't have more than a few hundred pounds to his name - he still lived in a shared, rental apartment that was tiny and filthy. That's the very grim reality of most actors on the 'cushion' rather than on the top of the pin in the 'pin cushion' pay structure. I did go for loads of auditions over the years, I did get some very good parts, I did work with famous celebrities, I did have a lot of fun traveling around the world for some amazing shoots and I have done far more than most actors ever managed to do - I even managed to earn quite a lot of money from a number of high profile jobs that I did but at the end of the day, the most frustrating part of the industry is the 'gig' nature. Unless you get cast in a major role in a long-running soap opera, you're not going to have a regular job as an actor. Alternatively, the number of actors who become so successful and famous that they will always be in demand is pretty darn low - that's the equivalent of working your way to the top of that pin on the pin cushion. Let's try this experiment: let's take a famous movie like the last James Bond film Spectre - only the A list actors, musicians, directors and producers are going to be paid so much money that they don't have to worry about money for quite a while whilst the rest of the cast & crew would be paid a decent daily wage but once their services are no longer needed, it is, "goodbye, good luck, here's your final paycheck." So even if you are an actor who lands a part in that movie, unless you're a celebrity on the top of that pin, your financial situation is still rather precarious. But then just how famous must you be before you have some job security as an actor?
A recent example of just how brutal the industry can be is the story of Katie Jarvis - she was once a very popular actress who landed herself a very big role on one of the long running soap operas on BBC called Eastenders. In fact she has enjoyed plenty of success since 2009 when she was the protagonist in the film Fish Tank at the age of just 18 - the film won several awards and was a commercial success; this propelled Jarvis into instant stardom, leading up to her stint of 108 episodes on Eastenders. However, after she left Eastenders, the acting work just dried up for some reason and in order to make ends meet to feed her family, she was forced to take the job of a security guard at a store called B&M which describes itself as a 'variety retailer' - there are no B&M stores in central London as they are priced out of central London but when I visit other parts of the country, it is always fun to have a wonder around a B&M as they are a bargain basement type store where you can find super cheap stuff. So if you do get your friend a birthday present from B&M, you make sure you remove the packaging and never reveal where you actually bought it because it sends out the message, "yeah I had to get you a gift, but I didn't wanna spend a lot of money on you, so I went to B&M to buy this for you only because you bought me something for my birthday and I feel obliged to give you something in return." It would be bad enough for a filthy rich A-list celebrity to be photographed shopping in a B&M store given the negative image the store has for being so cheap and tacky, so imagine how social media reacted when someone recognized Jarvis working as a security guard there. The way she was humiliated on social media for taking such a job was needlessly harsh and cruel. One moment Jarvis was on the top of the pin being treated like a star at the BBC, the next moment she is working a minimum wage job at the local B&M store - that's how fickle and cruel this industry can be even to Jarvis whom you would have thought has achieved a significant level of fame, enough to at least sustain her acting career in the long run.
Perhaps I didn't want to roll the dice and bet on my talent turning me into an A-list celebrity, perhaps I lacked the self-confidence but I thought it was far easier to make a living in banking to become a millionaire (which for the record, happened in my 30s) than to try to do that in showbiz - remember my poor actor friend in his 50s still living in that shared apartment? Yeah, I didn't want to end up like him. Even if you do end up on the top of the pin, way above the pin cushion - it is only temporary, for the during for the project (the film, the TV programme etc) you're working on and then after that, you're back on the cushion. So contrary to the narrative that the 'Fatima' poster suggested, I crossed over from finance to showbiz before returning to finance. I suppose it is a question of what one wants out of life: what do you value more? The joy and thrill of doing what you love most or having financial stability which would then in turn, give you the money to spend on the nice things in life you like and enjoy? There is no right or wrong answer to this choice - this is something each individual has to decide for themselves. And it's not like I have closed the door entirely on acting - I've still got an agent who still sends me auditions every now and then, though that has been severely impacted by the Covid-19 pandemic this year as expected of course. There's a part of me that likes to know that there is still a tiny possibility that I may once again get yet another big part in a film or TV programme in the future but what I will definitely rule out is doing acting for 'fun' in unpaid, amateur productions. Having done proper acting with famous directors and A-list celebrities, I think the experience of doing it in a low-budget amateur production would just be frustrating - it's gotten to the point where I either want to do it properly or I don't want to do it at all. After all, doing low-budget productions is what actors do at the beginning of their careers when they are desperate to build a CV; yes I have been there, done that, paid my dues.
For those of you who have not acted professionally before, allow me to use an analogy to make that easier to understand. When I was a young adult, I didn't have a lot of money so whenever I went traveling, I stayed in youth hostels and got by spending very little money. It was the only way I could afford to travel back then. Today, I'm a lot richer and older - the thought of staying in a youth hostel, sharing a room with ten other people is simply mortifying to me now, even though that's exactly what I did when I went to New York in the late 1990s. I was willing to put up with those terrible conditions then as I couldn't afford a nice hotel - I suppose putting up with those horrific youth hostels was part of the experience of traveling back then. Oh I have done some crazy things when I was much younger like backpacking my way across Sri Lanka only using public transport. It is easy to put up with that kind of hardship if you've never ever had a taste of luxury travel. Those were some incredible adventures and I have some amazing stories from that trip to share with you - but do I want to do that again at my age? No thank you. Likewise, many actors, singers, dancers, performers etc have done their share of terrible jobs with low-budget productions which they have probably not even gotten paid for - performers do that in the early stages of their careers simply to get the experience, to network and expand their contacts in the industry. And indeed, I have done my fair share of those and I look back at those experiences in the same way I remember those backpacking experiences I have had when I was younger. Once you've had a taste of luxury travel, it is quite hard to go back to backpacking on a shoestring. Likewise, once you've been treated like an A-list celebrity by the crew, it is hard to go back to working on these no-budget amateur projects. Therefore if I can't land substantially big roles as an actor on professional productions then I would rather just focus my time and energy on my banking career instead.
But to be fair, I have to point out that I am extremely lucky: it has been the same skills that made me successful in acting has also made me successful in banking. Since I work in sales, it takes the same kind of skills to deliver a convincing and confident sales pitch as it does to get on stage and deliver your lines to the audience in a theater. Of course, the script I have is a lot more boring but I am still drawing upon the same set of skills at the end of the day. This is why making this transition back and forth between showbiz and banking has been relatively easy for me - but going back to that photo featuring Fatima, the person who came up with the concept of the photo made a really stupid mistake. When you want to make a transition from one career to another, you look for transferable skills that will enable you to hit the ground running or at least make that transition a little less traumatic. The kinds of skills it takes to be a professional ballet dancer and the kinds of skill it takes to have a career in IT are totally different - I'm not saying it is an impossible transition but I'm pointing out that it is not an easy transition. If you're looking for more people to enter the IT - the local dance studio wouldn't be the obvious place to look. Instead you'll start looking at places where people are already expressing an interest in IT such as coding clubs for teenagers. If you're looking for an alternative career for dancers who are now out of work because of Covid-19, I would look at the skills they already have and try to find a role that they can transition into a lot more easily such as teaching. Standing in front of a class may not be as fun as performing at the Royal Albert Hall, but oh how I wish some of my teachers had a flair in performing so as to make the lessons I've had back at school a lot more interesting. Thus trying to get a ballerina to retrain for a career in IT isn't an obvious choice when it comes to utilizing transferable skills to make an easy transition to another career - that's why the concept of 'Fatima' is very flawed.
Furthermore, this poster was extremely offensive to people who have chosen to pursue a career in the arts. I've already pointed out how painfully difficult a career in the arts can be with the "pin cushion" shaped structure - the people who work in the creative arts are fully aware of these job hazards yet they are so extremely passionate about what they do that they are willing to accept those risks and pursue a career that they truly love. Hence trying to persuade a ballerina to retrain in IT, I just wanna shake my head and say to the person who designed to poster, "have you ever met a real dancer before? How much research did you do? Did you even talk to any dancers when coming up with the concept of this ad?" Having worked with professional dancers before, well I hate to generalize but I can tell you two things: firstly, they're doing what they do because they are super passionate about their career choice. Secondly, they really don't like being told that they are barking up the wrong tree and should be retraining for a completely different career. Allow me to use the upcoming American elections as an analogy to put this in perspective: most of the campaigning so far by both sides has focused on targeting undecided voters and those who are politically apathetic (that means they usually are not interested enough to even bother registering to vote, let alone turn up to cast their vote). The Democrats know that they simply can't convert hardcore Trump supporters and vice versa: that's why they are both targeting the middle ground instead. By the same token, targeting 'Fatima' the ballerina to work in IT would be the equivalent of a Republican trying to persuade the most hardcore left-wing supporters that Trump is an excellent president and exactly what America needs right now. So even if that conversation did take place, the chances of that Republican convincing the Democrat to vote for Trump is effectively zero. It's never gonna happen - so that is why this poster is simply ludicrous because the person who came up with it has obviously never met a dancer in real life, never mind even try to understand a dancer's mindset.
But allow me to bring this back down to earth - I know a professional dancer from gymnastics, let's call him Julian (not his real name, obviously). He has trained in some of the most prestigious dance schools in America and has done everything from ballet to musical theatre professionally. I met Julian recently and asked him how work was going - it was a gloomy picture. So Julian has had no work as a dancer since the outbreak of Covid-19 and has taken odd jobs to make ends meet, "whatever I can get my hands on, so for example, last week a neighbour was moving house so he paid me £60 to work the whole day helping him pack the contents of his house and move, it's not a lot of money but I had nothing else so I took the work. I had gone from being financially secure as a dancer to being quite desperately, struggling - not knowing how much money I would have in the bank by the end of next week." I asked him if he would consider retrain for a career in another field like IT, he thought about it and said, "when I made the decision to become a dancer, I didn't want to make a plan B because that's all I wanted to do. All I want to do is to get back to dancing again when all this is over - so whatever I have to do right now is just temporary, it is just to make ends meet and pay the bills. It may be another six months, it may be another year or longer, nobody knows. But I have no plans to leave dancing whilst I know I still have the ability to perform. I have a friend Lydia who was also a dancer, she had a bad fall and damaged her left foot - that ended her career as a dancer as her foot never fully recovered. She then knew she had no choice but to pick another career path, so she retrained and became chef - one of her other passions is cooking, so she is now working in a French restaurant in West London. Is this career her first choice? No, she wants to dance and even though she now earns more than me, she is jealous that I can still dance because that means so much more to her than money - this is our passion. If I suffered a very serious injury like Lydia then I would retrain but until then, until that day comes, I have no intention to."
So there you go, that's it from me on this topic - what do you think? Have you seen some of the many memes mocking the government, based on this Fatima's next career poster? Have you ever to switch career paths and how difficult was it to adopt to a brand new environment? Have you met people like Julian who are determined to do whatever it takes to keep on dancing despite having no work under the current circumstances? If Fatima were to leave ballet the same way Lydia had to, what jobs would be more suitable for former ballerinas? Why is this current British government so out of touch with the real world and why do they keep fucking up? Do leave a comment below please, many thanks for reading.
Hmm... it seems the government believes the myth that there is a shortage of STEM workers and an oversupply of artists. But the reality is not that simple. In many places not every STEM graduate can find a job, even with a good GPA and internship experience. Even in Singapore at the local gov unis, many computer science graduates can't find an IT/software job and have to settle for a normal office job. These people were never serious about STEM anyway, and just did the degree hoping it would pay their bills, which we will call the "low end STEM workers". What there is a shortage of is at the high end, experts who will drive most of the innovation and create most of the new jobs for low end workers to do. I don't like Elon Musk because he is not really a scientist and is very arrogant, but he does create jobs. It is very unlikely there is some cyber-security genius wallowing away being an unemployed ballet dancer. Instead the government should be looking at people doing trades or other engineering jobs who are very good with machines, but were too old to catch on the dotcom and smartphone eras. These people, especially the engineers, would already know some of the math required to study a computer science course, maybe even some rudimentary coding skills, and would take far less time and have a higher success rate of transition.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't really have a field since I work in academia and the only instructions we get is "find new things." So over the past few years I've studied everything from electronics to quantum physics to robotics to artificial intelligence to solid mechanics. The only things I haven't worked on are biology, chemistry, or medicine.
But I know this ad campaign isn't about getting the brightest minds into the most in demand fields to benefit humanity. Its just about the government wanting to save on having to finance the lifestyles of unemployed artists or lowly paid shoe shop workers.
Hi Amanda and thanks for your comment. I think the root of the problem is that of supply & demand and people trying to control that supply and demand - even if the government can acknowledge that there needs to be more people in STEM jobs, how do you do that? Do you try to persuade people who have already decided to pursue a totally different to change jobs and start training in a STEM discipline (ie. Fatima) or do you start addressing it early in the education process and making younger kids more aware of their options from a young age, right from the time they are in primary school to tell them what their STEM career options are?
DeleteI think it is a fatal mistake to tell people that they are wrong, that they have made a mistake in their career choice - that's why so many people (even those who are not ballet dancers) took the whole Fatima's next career episode so personally and of course, it came back to haunt the government when it spawned so many memes attacking the current government. If somebody wants to pick a difficult career, then that's their choice - let them. Some may realize how difficult that career path is and then change their minds (the way I did), some will be stubbornly insisting that's exactly what they wanna do (even when they are in their 50s and still living in a tiny shared apartment) but any attempt at changing their minds by telling them that they are wrong is never ever going to work. You can't tell people what to do.
The way I see it, at least in the UK, many working class kids from low-income families lack aspiration. They think that school is boring, they just want to do the bare minimum and get out - their parents don't encourage them to go to university because no one in the extended family has a degree, they live in a community where graduates are very rare. So these kids usually end up leaving school at 16 with barely any useful qualifications, to end up doing fairly low-paid unskilled work and therein lies the problem: to become an engineer, you need education + training - that takes several years of commitment for a young student to say, "I'm going to commit to this education + training and at the other end of the process, I will become an engineer who will earn a lot more than my parents and all these other people in my community who left school at 16." But if they get ZERO encouragement and support from their own parents and peers in their community, then I think the school can play a major role in helping such kids go into STEM jobs. There will be smart kids from that kind of background who could potentially go into well-paid STEM jobs but because of their families, background and social status, they don't even consider it possible to go to university and get a degree, never mind get a proper STEM job that's super well-paid. I think that would be a great place to start because you're helping that end of the food chain which needs the most help and this is good for social mobility.
Thus they are really barking up the wrong tree with Fatima/ballerinas, it's just pure stupidity - that's why it totally blew up in their faces.
This is a true story I must share with you on this topic: my sister-in-law is a retired teacher in Scotland and she takes the ferry to go to Ireland regularly as my late mother-in-law lived there. Once on the ferry, she overheard a conversation between two young men about 16 or 17 years old - they have both left school and had gotten their first job, some dead-end unskilled job which is the only kind of job that you could get if you're a 16 year old who has dropped out of school. Were they unhappy or frustrated? No, they were super happy because they no longer have to be in school, follow school rules, listen to their teachers and they made enough money on minimum wage to be able to go out to drink as much beer as they wanted, until they both threw up violently and then drink more beer till they either pass out or throw up again. Binge drinking till you vomit may sound like a nasty way to spend a Saturday night, but in the past, these guys were so poor they couldn't afford to buy enough beer to drink to the point where they got drunk.
DeleteIt's quite sad to see the lack of aspiration in those two young men - even if they had low-paid jobs, did they think about saving up for something nice to buy like a motorcycle or a car? Or a trip to New York? No, that involves long-term planning. These young men were working a dead-end job in a big warehouse that mostly used their muscles and not their brains, "take these boxes to room 7 over there" - they just had to follow instructions. They see the short term advantages of, "oh cool, this is a job I know how to do, this is not like school where I don't know the questions to the difficult questions and I have the teachers scolding me for not knowing the answers to the questions in the exam. I know how to take boxes to room 7, that's easy, I can do that." But they don't think, what next? Do I want to spend the rest of my life doing this? Do I have a future in a warehouse like this? What if the whole process is automated and they no longer need humans to take stuff around the warehouse, when a new machine will scan a barcode and put the box on the right conveyor belt to room 7, then what? No, they don't think like that because their parents and teachers have let them down. I think it may even be too late for those two young men that my sister-in-law ran into on the ferry, but it goes to show just how messed up the whole system is for poorer working class communities. No my sister-in-law just listened to them talk, she didn't intervene or say anything as a teacher but in her mind, she was just angry that their teachers didn't guide these young men any better because if she had been their teacher, she would have made a greater effort to speak to them about their career options - but she felt it was too late to do anything about the situation with these two.
Oh and I have another story this time on a plane - you see, my company has an office in Tallinn, Estonia and that's a 2 hr 45 mins flight from London to Tallinn. Most people go there for a fun weekend but I go there for work, but the British military also sends their troops there to do all kinds of training because they have some awesome facilities left behind from the Soviet era, literally they go there and "blow stuff up" in the Estonian countryside because if they did that in England, the local residents will be complaining about the noise and disruption etc. So they do that in Estonia and once on the flight back, there was this English guy, very working class accent, who was drunk and crying - the air crew were so worried they talked to the pilot about diverting the flight to somewhere like Denmark or northern Germany to make an emergency landing because they were afraid he would get disruptive. The drunk guy had one friend with him who tried his best to calm his friend down but to no avail - that's when I used my social skills and I sat down next to the drunk guy, I asked him why he was upset, I showed him I cared about why he was so upset. The crew were talking to him as if he was a naughty child in the classroom, well that approach didn't work. His friend was scolding him for acting like an idiot - that didn't work either.
DeleteSo I went in there and I was nice, I was super nice and patient. Then I got his story, I knew once I could get him into story-telling mode, he would calm down and hopefully we could spend the rest of the flight in peace, with him telling me his story, I just had to listen and we won't divert to Copenhagen. Turns out that he was one of these very poor working class kids, left school at 16, worked a series of dead end jobs, then at 19 met someone he liked, they had a child two years later and decided to get married because it was the right thing to do. Then he realized, damn I need to earn more money to support my young wife and baby, my wife can't work as she is caring for the young baby and everyone is screaming at me to earn more money for my family but I have no skills, I left school at 16 with nothing because that's what all the guys in my community did. So in desperation, he joined the army as that's the only organization that will give someone like that a job and the pay is pretty decent compared to the other options of dead-end jobs for unskilled workers. But then it wasn't a 9-5 office job, he was spending long periods in the army camp, barely seeing his wife and child, he is working his butt off in the army just to support a wife and child he rarely gets to see. Just as he boarded the flight back to London, his wife had texted him to say that it is over, I am leaving you, I can't do this anymore - you're never here, I am going insane here with the baby crying in the middle of the night and you're in another country. I want a divorce.
Part two coming up below
Anyway, so as you can imagine, he wasn't having a fun holiday in Estonia, no he was on a military exercise to 'blow stuff up' in the countryside, barely getting 4 hours of sleep a night, getting yelled at by his officers and working his butt off just to spend most of that money on his wife and baby, to give them anything they need. So he was angry, frustrated, upset - he was crying, he was angry at her and so he told me his whole story. I didn't have any answers, I couldn't help him. All I could do was listen to him and empathize. We even talked a bit about Estonia and what a lovely country it was. But thankfully, the plane landed in London and I thought okay the airline owes me, thanks to me they didn't divert to Copenhagen but no, the air crew just said thank you to me - no free flights for life, nothing, not even a free drink for crying out aloud. At least his friend (who was also a soldier who was in training in Estonia) was very grateful. But oh well, sometimes you just have to do the right thing because you're a decent human being, not because you hope to be rewarded for having helped. But yes, I think the poorer working class would be the right target for a campaign to persuade more young people into IT - because this guy on the plane is a classic example of how wrong things can go if you drop out of school at 16.
DeleteOh yes take people from the trades. I play boardgames with a Canadian guy who came from a working class background since his parents were poor immigrants from East Germany after the Berlin wall fell. I was talking about how opportunities in STEM at the high school level are mostly for rich kids, and he mentioned he works in IT but if he had more opportunities in engineering at a young age, he may have gone differently. Just yesterday this person mentioned he is designing a 3D printer from scratch, which he taught himself to do as a hobby. Now that is the type of person the UK gov should target. He is only an IT technician but he is already showing more discipline to pick up skills than 70% of PhD students. But Canada has more opportunities for the working class I feel. Immigrants in particular really believe in the "American dream" of becoming educated and breaking into the middle class.
DeleteThat story about the young people on the ferry, I think they're just unfamiliar with what is waiting for them after a college degree, which is a lot actually. The middle and upper class kids have been told all their life that if they get an education they can expect XYZ rewards, but for a working class kid they usually have people around them who tell them not to expect XYZ since they themselves failed at getting out of poverty. But working class people have a better view of trades. I wouldn't mind running a program that gets tradespeople to do paid research in the summer for a few months to see if they like it, then asking them to transition to academia full time afterwards. I really hate how society looks down on trades and tries to make it the "dumb track" and university the "fast track." To me its just classism to have two separate tracks depending on how much money people have in the beginning (trades dont cost anything, uni costs a tonne).
Wow that story with the soldier is quite sad... Oh and usually planes dont value passengers who stop the plane being diverted unless they're doctors haha. Yeah that person would be someone the UK gov should help retrain, also they're relatively young (I assume mid 20s) and can still go to university. Btw I used to wonder why poor people had kids young that they couldnt afford, till I realized when you dont have any good career options there isnt much else to do except get drunk all the time. Rich people dont have children young because they have a career to focus on and plenty of money that they want to enjoy for themselves before having kids.
Hi Amanda, I think there are two components to guiding young people - firstly, there is the availability of further education + training, then there is the harder part which is nurturing these young people to guide them to achieve their full potential. Many working class kids don't get that because their parents are uneducated and clueless - kinda like mine, I was lucky in having good teachers who were able to give me the information I need and guide me along the way but what about the kids who aren't that lucky? Who is going to help them then?
DeleteAs for the two young men on the ferry - their situation is very typical. For them, school has been a poor experience with teachers being frustrated at them for failing to achieve the necessary grades. They leave school, get a job that isn't challenging because they're merely using their muscles and not their brains - they think, this is great, this is so different from school! But we need to go back to the time when they were students, rewind to the time when they were struggling and intervention needs to happen at that stage to deal with students like them, in that situation - how do we make sure students like that walk away from the education process with at least some kind of training that will lead to a decent career, rather than just dropping out of school to stack boxes at a warehouse with no real career options apart from the worst dead end jobs? I guess the same thing applies as well to the soldier who got dumped by his wife.
I think you're perhaps unfamiliar with the British education system so you said something that was wrong in your post: you assumed, "UK gov should help retrain, also they're relatively young (I assume mid 20s) and can still go to university." That's a LOT harder than you think. To go to university, to attend a course at a degree level, universities set entry level requirements such as certain A level subjects, mathematics, English language skills etc - these are boxes that are totally easy to tick for someone like you and I because we're brilliant Asian students. But for a drop out like the 2 young men stacking boxes in the warehouse, they have no GSCEs, no A levels, nothing. If you want them to do a degree, then you need to give them at least 6 years (possibly more, depending on how bad their education has been) pre-university education before putting them on a 3 year university course = government supporting them as students for 9 years. And I have news for you - the British government is too broke for that kind of scheme: there is no money to make that happen! Besides, will these people be willing to return to school for 9 years (I repeat, 9 years) when they have dropped out of school in the first place because they had such horrific experience as students that left them totally disillusioned with education? This is a government that has steadily removed subsidies for education and raised university fees constantly over the last 20 years because they're broke - they believe that the bright kids from the good families will still go to university because their parents will support them and as for the poor kids? Well fuck them, tough shit, they're poor people, they don't matter.
Part 2 coming up below.
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DeletePart 2
DeleteI realize that your background means that your path will never cross with either that soldier or those 2 young men on the ferry - you come from a very rich family, now you're in a very good university; when would you ever have to mix with working class people of that kind of background? Whereas I have served in the army and oooh boy, that was such a learning experience where I got to mix with everyone from the sons of ministers to hardened convicts who have spent time in jail for horrible crimes. I have met everyone from the very top to the very bottom of society - whereas I suspect in your case, you would have never ever had the chance to mix with those at the very bottom of the food chain in our society. That's why you're so optimistic about "oh they're young, they can still go to university" and I'm like, Amanda, you're crazy rich, you've never met a real working class person have you? I'm talking working class people doing dead end jobs earning peanuts who drink themselves blind drunk on the weekend to forget how miserable their lives are - not the kind of "oh I'm from a working class background but I worked hard and look I'm at a top university today - yay social mobility." I suspect you've only ever met the latter and that's "working class lite" or "diet working class" - you've never met the other kind who are desperately poor, desperately messed up and desperately miserable because of their upbringing, they have no hope of escaping their poverty - no government scheme in the world can help them.
The UK government is so freaking broke, like there's NO MONEY LEFT after Covid-19, where's the money to put these people through 9 years of schooling (supporting them whilst they're students, paying all their bills, school fees etc)? That money doesn't exist and even if it did, then there's still no political will to spend money to help people like that because society tends to blame people like that for being so messed up.
This is such a fucked up situation that the government cannot solve through merely 'retraining' them. We have a whole underclass in the UK called the working poor, their lives are so utterly messed up because they have been so freaking poor, generation after generation. Their lives are plagued by alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic violence - like everything that can go wrong will go wrong with their lives and them dropping out of school at 16 is not the problem but the end result of all these other terrible things that have gone so horribly wrong in their lives. No Amanda, you wanna help these people - you have first got to realize how utterly fucked up their lives are to begin with, you have to address all the underlying problems that have gone so horrifically wrong in their lives, then you can start talking about retraining. You can't think about it as simply "oh retrain them and then they will be fine", hell no, it's never that simple.
The best case scenario for those two lads from the warehouse? University? What a fucking joke. No way. Perhaps a 4-week course to teach them how to operate something like a fork lift, then they will be able to gain one new skill, take a small step up the ladder, then another short course to learn another piece of machinery - step by step. That is something we can work with.
You've really never met a real working class person in your life have you Amanda? People like me with working class parents/background don't count.
In response to the kids who aren't lucky,the US gov here is trying to help with that by giving out research money to scientists in exchange for providing research opportunities for "underrepresented minorities" at the high school and undergraduate level. These experiences help greatly in applying to Harvard/Stanford when these kids turn 18. I recently signed up to work with the organization that recruits high school students for research projects at my university as a condition to apply for a gov scholarship (I heard a student last year had a brilliant CV but zero public service and didn't win the scholarship as a result). But one of my professors was in a government panel of scientists who had to allocate next year's science budget, and one of the professors in charge of improving diversity said the incentives weren't working. Thats not to say we shouldn't try, but for a variety of reasons its very hard to implement.
DeleteI want to dedicate time to offer training opportunities for high school students, but my boss would rather I spent my time writing papers to get the research group in the news again, since he'd like a promotion. I'm not saying he's a bad person, his career is a bit later than most professors due to various forms of bad luck which aren't his fault(escaping a warzone in Eastern Europe isn't easy). But otherwise, its hard to get people to help others instead of helping themselves.
Amanda, I am sorry I got emotional in those two comments above. I guess I still take it personally when a rich person doesn't understand the challenges that poor people have to go through to get the same results that a rich person has - rich people have advantages handed to them by their parents, poor kids like me have to struggle and fight for every single advantage we wanna get our dirty hands on. So when I read your comment, I guess I took it personally - I got emotional. I had my Tyra Banks moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k_yQwS_0rU
DeleteIts alright man...I'm very ignorant and this is eyeopening to me. I remember in SG I was in a boardgaming whatsapp group and there was a girl who came from a very bad family situation who got into a heated argument with me because of how optimistic I was about the future. She was a tuition teacher who was having difficulty making ends meet, and was worried about automation. She felt that because of automation the only way for her life to improve is for the PAP to implement universal basic income, or to set aside good jobs for locals. You can probably guess I said something similar to "Fatimah's new job" to her, which totally doesn't understand her situation.
DeleteI do like your idea of short courses. It is a big risk to spend money for 4 years (or even 9 as you said) on university before rolling the dice and seeing what job comes out, and hoping the job pays more than what was spent. Wealthy families don't mind spending the money as they have extra cash, and their risk is nearly zero because they have some connections to land their child a good first job. A working class family has neither the capital or the connections to minimize risk, which would make this a harder sell. A short course lowers the reward, but also dramatically lowers the risk, which makes it more accessible to more people.I guess if the UK elected more working class leaders then they would have more solutions that cater to them. Would you say politics is accessible in the UK? I know in the US it isn't because campaigning is so expensive. But in France that doesn't seem to be the case, there have been MPs in their 20s or 30s who didn't go to elite universities.
Hi Amanda, okay I've cooled down - yeah like that Singaporean you met whilst boardgaming, I guess people like us we do take it personally when rich people like you are so optimistic. There's a sense of "do you have any idea what I have been through to get to where I am?" Clearly not. So for you, getting to university is simply fulfilling your parents' expectations but for people like me, my parents are not highly educated, they're not graduates, yet I managed to turn things around in my life to go to a good university on scholarship - I get there and I see all these rich kids whose parents have been super supportive giving them everything they need every step of the way and so perhaps it is a chip on my shoulder that I try to brush off, but every now and then, I do have my Tyra Banks moment.
DeleteTake the soldier I met on the plane, he dropped out of school at the age of 16 before his GSCEs, so he has zero paper qualifications. He needs to go back and resit those (4 years) before he can take his A levels (2 years) which then enables him to enroll for a course at university (min 3 years), so 6 + 2 + 3 = 9 - so you thought in the meantime, the government would have to support him, his wife and his child for 9 years. The British government really isn't that generous! You want this government to pay his school fees, pay for a home for his family, pay for everything the baby needs, pay for the wife to stay at home to take care of the child - like hello? Is there some kind of magic money tree that grows in the land of rich people?
No Amanda, the magic money tree doesn't exist for poor people. The government will NOT and will NEVER help poor people like that. The government leaves poor people to struggle on, the government has little desire to help the poor - so that's why the poor keep getting poorer and the rich keep getting richer. But cynicism aside, let's look at the reason why the soldier dropped out of school in the first place: it goes back to when he was 18 months old - whilst rich kids had their parents reading and singing to them at that age, he was left on his own to watch TV because his parents were too busy to care for him as they were working super long hours down at the local supermarket / warehouse / McDonald's to make ends meet. So when he started primary school, he was already so far behind the rest of the kids who had their brains stimulated a lot in their early lives - the rich kids have had a brilliant start to his education, whilst the teachers are worried that his reading skills, his math skills, his social skills simply aren't as developed as the other kids in the class. So he falls behind and by the end of his first year at primary school, he is at the bottom of the class already. That sets the tone for the rest of his primary and secondary education, where he is always at the bottom of the class - he is discouraged, he is convinced he is stupid and not cut out for school, he does not receive any help or encouragement at home. He sees his father doing a dead end job carrying boxes at a warehouse and thinks, that's going to be me, I'm going to be doing that kind of work - I am stupid like my father, so what is the point of school? I can't pass these exams, I have struggled with school all my life. That is what we are struggling with - we cannot simply reset the clock and go back to the time he was 18 months old and start making things right. He was a baby then and he is now a grown man, a father with his own 18 month old baby.
This is why you have grossly underestimated the amount of education it would take to put things right for this soldier because you've grossly underestimated just how messed up things are in his life! You need to understand that things have gone so desperately wrong for him since he was a baby - so it is quite naive to say that he is still young, he can retrain. Oh no, given the amount of problems that have led up to this point in his life, where he was forced to join the army in order to provide for his baby - who's going to pay the bills for his family if he decides to go back to school to study? The government certainly isn't going to do that, oh no Amanda, there is no free money. Even if you're a British citizen and you wanna go to university, it isn't free! We have school fees to pay and just because you're from a poor family, doesn't mean you get some kind of exemption. The harsh reality is that any kind of scholarship / funding is reserved for those "poor but super bright working class kids with straight As" - but if you're a "poor and average or below average working class student with Cs and Ds" then it's a great big middle finger, fuck you, university is not for people like you, go get a dead end job like your parents and we condemn you to a life of poverty because you're working class. But given the way all the odds are stacked against poor working class kids, the odds of them being that "hey I'm poor but academically brilliant, please help me" is so tiny. Oh boy, I feel another Tyra Banks moment coming up. So the research money in America you talk about? Yeah it's for the tiny number of "poor but brilliant kids" - what about the other poor kids who are not brilliant but still desperately poor and suffering?
DeleteThis is why you can't say oh he is young, he can retrain and go to university - he can't and it is not his fault because he can't fix the problems in his life when they have gone so wrong since he was a baby. He is messed up already, we just can't hit the reset button and send him to kindergarten, then primary school etc to hit the reset button on his education process.
Investing in a short course is a "lower risk, lower reward" approach to start taking baby steps for people in that desperate situation - these people have been so messed up as a result of their terrible childhoods that they are not able to learn in the same way rich, privileged people like you can. Like I said, there's no political will to help the poor in the UK - or at least very little political will. We're in the middle of a very deep recession caused by Covid-19, the government is broke, everyone is desperate for help, businesses are going under and there is no magic money tree for more money for poorer working class kids to access higher education. That's why the government is happy for them to become dejected, drop out of education and work dead end jobs as the attitude is, "good, as long as they don't start having dreams about going to university and asking us for more money to pay their fees as we're broke."
I know I've said this before but I need to say it again, you really have no idea how hard it is to be a poor working class kid trying to go to university - the odds are really, really stacked against you even if you do have dreams because you're competing with other kids who have all the odds in their favour. It is so easy to say, oh yeah the government should help them blah blah blah when the British government has done quite the opposite because quite frankly, their attitude is, "fuck the poor, fuck them. It's their fault they're poor, they don't deserve help."
As for your question about politics - that's another topic for another day.
DeleteHmm... I guess I assumed since there were public schools that a tertiary education was accessible, but then I forget there is a dropout rate in highschool, and also a dropout rate in university which the media doesnt seem too fussed about. So these are the hurdles for the working class, just graduating secondary... Meanwhile people like me and Boris Johnson went to private schools where the high school dropout rate is zero.
ReplyDeleteThere's very few working class people in my graduate school in my department. And I overheard them talking to each other about how they resent that a lot of their peers have parents who are doctors/lawyers. Meanwhile they are kinda struggling with finishing a PhD and my boss doesnt think they will graduate. To me it looks like they lack mentoring about a STEM career since their parents cant tell them the expectations involved in such a job. Thats when I realize teachers expect parents to do a lot at home to support schooling, but when that isnt available they blame the student. Its sad because they've made it so far only to stumble with seemingly nonacademic things.
Well, there's a fight between the left and the right wing politicians over the role of governments in education and by extension the lives of poorer people. So we have something called 'free school meals' - so if you're from a poor income family, the student gets a free lunch at school if we know that the family can't afford to give the kid money to buy something for lunch. There was a proposal to extend the free school meals for the poorest kids in the country over the holiday school period and this current government voted against it - because they're the Conservative party, they're right wing and their attitude towards the poor has been, "can't afford to feed your kids? Try birth control instead, but don't turn to us for free school meals." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54657796 So now various charities, local councils etc are trying to step in and give the poorest kids the lunches they would get at school just so they won't go hungry in the school holidays. It's that dire Amanda, these families are so poor the children can't afford lunch and will go hungry if not for this scheme and this government refuses to extend it.
DeleteThe dropout rate in this country is shockingly high - look if you're from a poor family, so poor you can't even afford lunch, then how are you supposed to study and focus if you are hungry? There are tales of teachers using their own money to buy food for the poorest students in their schools because they turn up at school hungry, no breakfast and completely dependent on the free school meal and they may not even get dinner when they go home.
If food security is an issue for these people, well how do you expect them to compete against rich people like you for places in the top universities? One crucial factor is the early years - you need to get a good start in education at the age of 18 months till the day they start primary school. Rich kids probably had loving parents and nannies/tuition teachers who read to them, sang them songs, played games with them whilst working class kids are just left to fester away on the presumption that they are too young to learn anything. I was super lucky in that I was the youngest child, so whilst my parents neglected me, my two older sisters taught me so much from the age of 18 months to 6 years - that meant the day I started primary school, I could interact with my peers, I could speak three languages fluently, I was not fazed by mathematics, I had a good knowledge of so many things: I am so grateful to my sisters for doing that for me as my parents didn't do any of that.
That's why if you want to address the issue of job prospects, you have to go to the root source of the problem and find out why these kids are doing so badly in school - then deal with the causes of these problems. Sadly, the UK government isn't the least bit interested in helping the poorest of the poor.
Oh yeah I heard about the conservative party refusing to provide school meals, even during covid. There was a footballer, Marcus Rashford, who plays for England that grew up on school meals and was advocating for it. It seems your Conservative party in the UK is just as bad as the Republicans in the US right now. But in the US poverty is considered a racial thing, and that's why poor white people that are ignored by democrats end up voting for Trump. And looking at the ivy league and some 20 other rich schools, classism is indeed alive in the US.
DeleteWell you're giving me a lot of pointers on what to do when I work with the charity organizations to promote STEM pathways for working class children. Usually what happens is a grad student goes to high schools and give talks about STEM, but that wouldn't address things like food/rent/time scarcity. Lebron James the basketball player set up a school in his hometown for disadvantaged students, but because he is from a working class background himself he implemented a program to provide basic necessities for the children's families, and also career counseling and adult education for their parents(like your short courses). The school has already had some results in closing the achievement gap. I think that's more effective to give money to people like Lebron James to come up with and implement solutions since he has lived through the problems. Its better than asking mostly middle to upper class scientists/politicians to fix the issue with no collaboration or input from the people we are trying to help.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/education/lebron-james-school-ohio.html
Well yes, I'm glad you read up on the whole free school meals thing - yup, this Conservative government is pretty bad and it's a really sad situation. These kids are sooo poor that they are dependent on the school to get one substantial meal a day and I've seen some of those school meals - they're not giving the kids nice food, it's very, very basic stuff to fill their stomachs. Glad I gave you food for thought for your charity work :)
DeleteI do have a childhood friend whose father lost his lucrative job in the oil industry just after graduating high school, which greatly diminished the family wealth. Anyway he had to serve NS right after, simply because he was born in Sg to an Aussie father and Sgan mother, where both promptly left Sg shortly after his birth and forgot to change his citizenship. He had a tough time in NS because people would make fun of him for being a "rich ang-moh." Anyway his experience, like yours, was very eye-opening in terms of class.
DeleteHe then went back to Australia for uni, but took a gap year and worked as a prison guard and did part-time volunteering at a drug and alcohol rehab. He told me that 50% of the prisoners/patients he encountered didn't have fathers and suffered some type of child abuse, and 90% grew up in poverty and did not finish school. When you said someone who grew up like me would never encounter the people on the ferry and the soldier, that made me think of my childhood friend who did, but only because he served NS which changed his perspective.
Furthermore, I didn't really understand how impactful a privileged education was until I saw what happened to my friend sans his wealth/connections. He was always very average in terms of grades, but so were many of my classmates at our private school. Their parents just shrugged and used their money to send them overseas for uni, because unis tend to be lenient about grades when accepting wealthy foreign students who pay higher fees than locals. But when his father unexpectedly lost his job, he had to get into university and pay for it on his own merits, and had to settle for the Aussie version of SIM. He's switched majors a few times and still doesn't have a degree, and takes gap years often and works menial jobs to support himself (though Australia has a good minimum wage). He's not destitute, but he definitely isn't as successful as classmates of similar ability who still have their family wealth. I'd imagine it would be a lot worse if he didn't grow up wealthy though.
Hiya Amanda, a few points for you:
Delete1. I think working class people get frustrated when rich kids take it for granted what it means to have a good childhood - little things like how your brain was stimulated when you were an infant, that sets you up with good numeracy and literacy skills so when you have your first day at school, you're identified as one of the smart kids as opposed to the teachers shaking their heads going, "oh goodness me, she's a dumb kid from a bad family, why do I get kids like that in my class, what am I gonna do with her?"
Thank you for sharing the story of your friend in Oz - I actually knew someone like that as well in NS, Paul grew up in America and had to return to do NS, he was bullied relentlessly - it was a terrible place to be different in anyway, even being rich was enough reason to be bullied, never mind being educated in America. I became good friends with him because being educated in America, he was totally cool with me being gay whilst the others weren't as cool - but unlike your friend, I think Paul simply got on a plane and went right back to America after he finished NS swearing never to set foot in Singapore ever again, he had no reason to. His family and life was in America, I don't think he learnt as much from that experience even if he did suffer a lot.
As for rich people and their connections - oh boy, I work in banking where your connections are so important to get you a job. Years ago, there was a director in the company I worked for who went to a university at the very bottom of the league table in the UK, but it didn't matter - his daddy made a few phone calls and he got himself a great job in one of the top banks after graduation. All because his father vouched for him, "yes he is in a bad university because he messed up his A levels but my boy isn't stupid, give him some training and he will do a good job." That kinda thing, the guy at the bank knows his father only too well and did him a favour, how ya like that?
In my private school there were still dumb kids, but because the teacher had smaller class sizes (about 10-15 kids) they had more patience for them. But studies have shown that a lack of food does diminish IQ by a few points, and sending nurses to low income areas to help care for infants does mitigate the situation. Hmm, I don't mind working with early childhood toddlers if stimulation in STEM helps. Though I really should email nonprofits who do this stuff to ask where my time and skillset would make the most impact. Otherwise I'm just a glorified substitute science teacher if I go into high schools.
DeleteBtw this conversation gives me a new perspective on coworkers who I initially didn't get along with. Their impostor syndrome used to really tick me off, but knowing what barriers they faced just to get here, I totally get it. I get they fear going back to their hometowns in shame if they fail at a PhD, as there is little to fall back on(they went to gradschool right after their bachelors, so have zero work experience to find a job in industry). And that they feel isolated and alone that everyone else is from a middle class or wealthy background. Even at the graduate level working class kids could do with more social support.
Oh man being LGBT in Sg in the 2000s must've been rough. Even in the 2010s when I went to uni students still had to be in the closet to their parents. Yes I'm familiar with rich parent favors, my dad's friend does business with Michael Bloomberg and got his daughter a job there. My dad was making fun of it at the dinner table, saying his friend's daughter might go to the cafeteria at lunch and have her new coworkers say "I went to Harvard. I have a 4.0 GPA. What did you do to get here?" and she would say "Bloomberg rents undersea cables from my daddy, and he gave him a small discount." And yeah she didn't go to the ivy league or even a reputable uni.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Rzyql7IYU on the UK situation.
DeleteOh and you forget how old I am! I served my national service from 1995 to 1997, by the summer of 1997 I was already studying in France. I think things have improved somewhat about the LGBT community in Singapore over the years though, but such things change very slowly in a place like Singapore.
@LIFT i wonder are you following this case? Any comments on the developments so far?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/chief-justice-grants-investigation-parti-liyani-complaint-13349750#:~:text=SINGAPORE%3A Chief Justice Sundaresh Menon,misconduct in handling her trial.
Interesting - thanks for bringing this to my attention. I wanna see the maid get justice - oh man I really want heads to roll for this case!
DeleteAlso why the hell are all the governments of the world so enraptured with IT? Do you know help desk is also an IT job. Just give someone a script and phone and they can do it too. Congrats you are now an IT worker!
DeleteThe real meat and potatoes IT jobs are few and far between. You don't go to a 4 month bootcamp to get to get those jobs. Heck I tried lots of positions back when I was still in IT and if you don't get the relevant certification you are not qualified, tertiary qualifications be damned!
I'm glad everyone is going into the IT industry, it give me lesser competition in the real in-demand jobs.
P.S. if you can train someone in 4 days or weeks to do a job that job can be easily automated in the future.
Well Choaniki - the people coming up with these dumb ideas are not people who have that much real life working experience, they're probably civil servants stuck in a department in government so cut off from the rest of us out in the real world.
DeleteThey are also elites or natural aristocrats who jobs or scholarships thru referrals or connections. So what do they understand about the struggles of the proles in finding a job. Having all the qualifications and certificates means moot if the hiring manager is a Pinoy or Indian and prefers working with his own ethnicity.
DeleteThey are also elites or natural aristocrats who jobs or scholarships thru referrals or connections. So what do they understand about the struggles of the proles in finding a job. Having all the qualifications and certificates means moot if the hiring manager is a Pinoy or Indian and prefers working with his own ethnicity.
DeleteI'm looking for an internship lately, and my friends already in the industry said I'd have a much higher chance if I were to "network" for the job instead of just sending out applications. One friend said he got his first job(healthcare actually) at a career fair set up by his university. He talked to a company representative and got the job without an application or interview. But he did go to a very good university in the US(though not ivy league), so life really is different for the elites.
DeleteI dunno what the solution is though... One way is to provide networking opportunities for people who come from a low-income background and did not attend an elite university. Either through career fair discounts or training programs with elite companies. Another is to make the application process more fair, which is very difficult. But like LIFT said, there are good companies who are focused on finding talent and being fair, and there are bad companies who engage in nepotism. @Choaniki if you were a the Sg Minister for Manpower, what policies would you try?
@Choaniki - I wouldn't want to work under a Pinoy or Indian who hires according to ethnicity/nationality instead of merit. I speak as someone working in a company which employs people from countries as diverse as America, Argentina, Germany, Estonia, Russia, Georgia, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Singapore, Australia, South Africa, Bosnia, Switzerland etc - like just too many to name them all and we're not there because we hold the right passport or have the right skin colour, we're there for one reason: we know how to make money for the company and if a company can't prioritize that, then why the hell would you wanna work for someone like that? I would turn my nose up and them and say, "no way, you don't know what the heck you're doing, I want nothing to do with you."
Delete@Amanda, you need to network online now since there are no events to visit for networking in person due to Covid-19. I can only suggest Linkedin as I don't know enough about your industry I'm afraid, but I'm sure you will find the right communities online for that kinda e-networking.
Alex didn't you mention your company was moving IT worker jobs to Estonia because IT workers are easily found there with less wages? I'd say our industries, science and banking, are too cutthroat to support rampant nepotism (Tanya didn't get the job, even on your recommendation). But IT at the entry level, I'm not sure how big a difference it would make to have a star performer vs. an average worker of the same ethnicity. I guess we've had the luxury of not seeking out those types of jobs(though cutthroat industries have other challenges).
DeleteI asked my boss if I could intern for 4 months in summer 2021, and he said he'd prefer if I go in summer 2022. Not as urgent, but I'm still looking to network between now and then. I did find postings for the kind of internships I want (treated as a full-time engineer, pays double my salary, but the hours are slavery). Though many people will be gunning for this job so I'd have to make contact with someone in this company (which is quite famous) through networking. It seems James-Bondish to me haha, using my wits and charisma to get my foot in the door of an organization (sorta like those unknown actors trying to talk to the director of a casting agency).
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DeleteHi Amanda, allow me to explain: I work in finance and whilst we still employ a small number of IT professionals in the world of finance, they make up less than 10% of the work force. Our entire back office moved to Estonia and that department includes IT (remember, less than 10% of the work force) but the vast majority included administrators + accounting staff. So Estonia wasn't picked for cheaper IT staff, it was picked for cheaper accountants - same principle but you got the story wrong by thinking it was about IT; not it wasn't, it was about accountants. Do you know how much accountants earn? A highly qualified accountant can command a very respectable salary and earn a lot of money - it is a highly specialized skill and in banking, we hire a LOT of accountants and others who straddle the space between IT and accounting when they process vast volumes of trades. So imagine you have a lot of money moving from thousands investors to loads of different products and you need a big team of highly trained specialists to handle that entire process - that's like 90% accounting 10% IT; hence the emphasis on accounting, not IT.
DeleteIn any case, I'm not involved in all of that - I'm the salesman who puts on a nice suit, goes meet clients for coffee and chat to them about what they have done on their summer holidays. Our head of IT is Nigerian - long story, he was educated in Estonia because he got a scholarship to go there to study and he fell in love with Estonia, decided not to go back to Nigeria and got a job there instead. But quite frankly, that's an easy choice: Nigeria vs Estonia. We have a complex trading system - I know how to use it, but I certainly wasn't responsible for building it and if there's something wrong, I would have to run to my colleagues for help. I guess it's like Facebook - I know how to use it but don't ask me to build a platform like that. I'm not technical at all since I am the one who works in sales.
But long story short, the London office was closed down about 2 years ago - only the London sales staff like me kept their jobs, everyone else got an offer: redundancy or move to Estonia. The company moved the entire back office to Estonia to take advantage of their cheaper accountants (and not IT staff per se). But then again, since wages are significantly lower in Estonia - you can hire anyone for any profession, from chefs to teachers to researchers to zoo keepers to engineers to taxi drivers to florists to nannies to gymnastics coaches to doctors to translators to painters to make up artists to scientists to nurses to secretaries to gardeners to waiters to X-ray technicians to plumbers to welders to electricians to yoga instructors to cleaners to pilots to psychiatrists to beauticians to lifeguards to train drivers to security guards to cashiers and still pay much less than what it would cost you to hire the equivalent in London.
Oh wow, I forget how much banking relies on computers nowadays. Yeah accounting is a pretty specialized and respectable job, in the US we call them "bean counters" since they literally count every dollar in and out of the company. I guess they'd be very important in banking, but it doesnt make sense to hire British accountants considering Brexit. And it doesnt surprize me your head of IT is nigerian, nigerians are very smart people who are common in expat and internatinal student communities. Though when people think of a highly qualified expat working in the west, its usually the image of an Indian or Chinese person.
Delete@Amanda, since we are theory crafting I will just ignore economic and immigration considerations and just focus on labour policies.
DeleteFor a start I would legislate a minimum wage. If HK can do it so can SG. There is just no political will to do. If our MPs have a minimum allowance to "maintain dignity" why can't the common man have one?
Next will be a legislating proper labour unions. Any skilled profession like lawyer, doctor, pilot etc and not just lowly paid blue-collar labourers need to join a proper union (not NTUC who is a supermarket).
With that out of the way, right to disconnect must be a thing. Any calls, emails after official work hours must be eligible for OT claims or standby allowance.
Finally I would legislate the work permit system for skilled migrants (not sure if this is manpower or immigration just throwing it here). Firstly a proper point system to be able to quantify the talent portion of foreign talent. Next, a work permit must be applied by a local company or foreigners from outside the country. This will prevent developing country "tourists" who try to come to SG to look for jobs. And last, but not least, the jobs bank thing needs to be properly implemented. There must be physical (video, etc) evidence of inteviews being conducted and a long paper (must be as bureaucratic as possible) in order for companies to be allowed to hire a foreigner for jobs not on a shortage list.
@Amanda, some of the sales staff (ie. myself) in London have kept our jobs because you can still find plenty of good clients in a big city like London given that we run a B2B business (and not a B2C business) so the services are run from a cheaper place like Estonia but the sales are made wherever the customers are (usually big cities, large financial centers, such as London). I wouldn't generalize about Nigerians - this individual is very good at what he does and I would sing praises about him, but I wouldn't extend that courtesy to everyone from his country.
Delete@Choaniki: Excellent, all great points but the sad thing is that the PAP is doing none of that, quite the opposite, that's why I left a long time ago and you're in the process of leaving Singapore soon.
The PAP are protecting their own. The admin service is the last one to remove the pension scheme back in 2013 whilst the common folk have theirs removed back in the 80s.
DeleteThey are also protecting companies over the citizens since the companies have a greater effect on GDP and most civil servants get paid a bonus depending on the country's GDP.
And by signing all the FTA and opening up the economic refugees floodgate they do not allow foreigners to enter politics. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If a FT is good enough to displace local citizens they should be good enough to displace several useless politicians.
Nice points Choaniki. Most western countries already have those systems in place (e.g Sweden, Australia, etc.). Yes NTUC is a supermarket and not a union haha. Though I will point out the reason why none of those policies have been implemented is because Singapore is a dictatorship rather than a democracy. In a western country when the workers get angry due to unemployment and bad working conditions, like the US in 2015, they will vote the current regime out. Thats why Western governments are pressured to implement a minimum wage while the Sg gov isnt. Unions are also hard to develop because one cannot have public demonstrations in Sg, and courts are arbitrary (look at how opposition politicians are treated, or how Roy Ngerng was sued out of Sg).
DeleteOh and Sg does have a minimum wage for Employment and S pass holders, its just the government will let companies pay lower than that if they have close ties(the MNC I worked for deliberately underpaid new engineers on E passes and still was approved for them). I'd say its not that Sg doesnt have policies in place, the government is just corrupt and doesnt follow them half the time, and there are no consequences for that since its a dictatorship. Sg may look free and developed on the surface, but politically its the same as Dubai, a dictatorship reliant on cheap foreign labor to polish their shiny city. The people have no leverage...
Good on you to leave. The west may be hard to immigrate to because they have policies to restrict immigration and maintain their standard of living, but I suppose thats a fair price to pay. It was super easy for me to immigrate to Sg but I really did not want to stay long term due to the issues you mentioned.
Issues is a mild way to put it. Its like saying a stroke patient has temporary paralysis.
DeleteIf you have been reading the news lately you will see young millennials coming out to expose all the abuse they have gone thru while looking for a job or interning with SG companies.
I previously spoke to a boomer business owner (driving me back on a huge BMW mpv btw) who said that the problem with young people are too calculative (my father's words too, also boomer, lol). This small business owner said her company is close-knit like a family and all staff tries to do as much work as possible and even works over lunch break (uncompensated) and overtimes to complete work (uncompensated too I bet). She then said I should do the same and stop trying to be calculative to my employers.
She just refuses to see my point that I need to lookout for my self interests since the employer and government are definitely not doing so. Also what unions?
Hot of the press:
Deletehttps://www.tnp.sg/news/singapore/mismatch-expectations-leads-slow-job-take-rate
I think that SME bosses' attitude is just classism. Indonesians behave that way too since it is a developing country, and they think poverty and exploitation is inevitable, and hope they at least are on the giving rather than the receiving end. This is a sign of a country with low education, with an economy driven by labor instead of innovation. Bosses are used to being able to exploit their workers and making lots of money with little effort. Singapore isn't used to focusing on productivity instead of just hiring lots of people for low pay. The west cares more about productivity because there were bloody revolutions over worker exploitation which lead to anti child labor laws, and caps on the number of hours one can work per week. But Sg had no such things, they are still living in 1800s Europe, labor attitudes wise.
DeleteHowever, classism means somebody benefits. I used to work at a university in Sg and they really treated us well (no set work hours, buckets of money, focus on productivity). Its because its considered a highly educated and prestigious job to be a "scholar" working for the government in Asia. What I found stupid was how little support I received when trying to turn my research into patents and a startup, since this would help inject innovation into the economy which is what universities are used for in the West. The government in Sg couldnt be bothered, they only pay their scholars well to make themselves feel better that they have some "smart" people around. It reminds me of medieval China where there were a bunch of useless scholars advising and entertaining the government with science, but not using it to help the economy or the people.
I think its really time to leave Sg if you dont work for the government or a big MNC. I couldnt stand the things politicians get away with in Sg that they couldnt in the west.