Firstly, I thought that she was somewhat unrealistic in her expectations - what did she expect to happen? Even if these guys confirmed what was obvious, that they were indeed from Singapore, what did she think would happen next? Would they say, "you're from Singapore, that's so amazing to meet someone from Singapore too! Hey, let's go have lunch together and talk about Marina Bay Sands, Lee Kuan Yew, Raffles Hotel and Ice Kachang!" No, that was hardly going to happen - she approached a group of strangers who happened to be from Singapore so whilst I agree that they shouldn't have been rude to her, I am not sure what could have happened next even if they did say, "yes, we're from Singapore." What would happen then? Sure, I can appreciate that this Singaporean lady was a bit homesick but what did she expect a group of strangers to do about that situation? Why should they care? Why should they take time out of their day to entertain her need to feel close to people from her country of origin? Well, let me tell you about a childhood memory when I was on holiday in Los Angeles with my family, we were standing and waiting in line with little to do, so naturally, we were chatting to each other in Singlish. This man approached us and asked us if we're from Singapore, so naturally we said yes. Turns out he was from another tour group and they had been given too much food for lunch, so he was looking for people to give that food away to because the alternative would have been to throw the leftovers into the bin and that would have been such a waste. Thus for some reason, he would rather give the food to some fellow Singaporeans (rather than some Americans). He had a reason to approach us, he had something to offer and of course, we were most grateful. But without a reason to approach the Singaporean group in London - what did this lady expect?
So in the examples I have used so far, yes it can be comforting to meet someone who speaks your language when you're traveling abroad. In my epic trip across South America this summer, I did meet some people who spoke English with me - I do speak Spanish of course but that is my fourth language and to be able to have a conversation in English was of course a lot easier. So let me give you an example: there was that morning in Santiago when I had to get a bus up to the mountains for skiing, but for some reason the local metro station to me was shut and luckily, I found someone in a uniform at the entrance of the station and I asked her what was going on. She started explaining to me in Spanish but goodness me, she had such a thick accent I struggled to understand her. I was beginning to panic, like what the hell is going on, like is the entire metro system shut down for some reason? How the heck was I going to make it across town in time to catch my bus to the mountains? Then she paused and said, "would you rather I speak English?" Phew, yeah in circumstances like that, even though I can speak Spanish, it felt so good to have been able to do that conversation in English instead as she told me how I could get to my destination despite that station being shut. But once again, in that example, I clearly needed something from this lady and I was grateful to have been able to get that information in English. But that's not always the case - I do take pride in the fact that I speak Spanish and sometimes in South America, people would assume I don't speak Spanish and greet me in English; that's when I would deliberately pretend not to speak English and respond only in Spanish, especially if I do feel confident enough to speak to them in their language.
Now let's compare this to the situation with the Singaporean lady in London approaching the Singaporean tourists: they most certainly didn't need any help in London. There was really nothing she could have offered them - instead, she wanted something from them and why should they be obliged to give her even their time? So let's imagine if this Singaporean lady had instead met a group of Singaporean tourists at the Eiffel Tower in Paris and this was way back in 1999 - if she had identified herself as a Singaporean who spoke French fluently and those Singaporean tourists had just spent the last 48 hours thoroughly frustrated by the language barrier, then of course, I am sure that under those circumstances, they would have been delighted to speak to her in English and she may have even been able to help answer a lot of their questions. When my sister was in London earlier this year, she felt totally at home here - whilst I was working, she could go out shopping, navigate her way around the city with public transport and if she wasn't sure about anything, she knew how to find the information she needed either via the internet or simply by asking someone. I didn't need to take care of her at all and she was even telling me which pub she wanted to meet me for lunch etc - Singaporeans can feel totally at home in London because it is such a tourist-friendly city and most of all, there's absolutely no language barrier for English-speaking Singaporeans. So that could explain a lot as to why the Singaporean tourists didn't welcome being approached by a stranger, but there's no need at all to be rude under any circumstances.
Secondly, I need to point out that the two most spoken languages in Singapore are English and Mandarin. The two most spoken languages in the world are also Mandarin and English, if you count native speakers along with second language speakers as well, it's still these two languages which are most widely spoken in the world. So if you meet someone else who speaks Mandarin, it's like, big fat hairy deal, so what? It's so bloody common - over a billion people in a world speak Mandarin, you're not part of an exclusive club at all, quite the opposite! Same for English, Russian French, Spanish, Arabic, German or any language with over 100 million speakers. It just so happens that Chinese Singaporeans speak two of the world's most spoken languages and we do not have a language of our own (and don't even try to suggest Singlish is a proper language). Furthermore, both English and Mandarin are spoken by many countries: English is an international lingua franca whilst Mandarin is spoken by people from China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Macau and the massive Chinese diaspora around the world from Malaysia to Australia to Canada to America. The language doesn't link you to one country - let's compare it to the Japanese language: all native Japanese speakers are from Japan or at least part of the Japanese diaspora with Japanese blood. Thus the Japanese language is closely linked to its national identity and culture - that's simply not the case with Chinese or English. Besides, I have witnessed situations whereby two Japanese people meet in somewhere like London and promptly switch to Japanese from English mid-conversation once they realize they are both Japanese - but with Singaporeans, that can't happen as we're already English speaking.
So here's the one assumption that always irks me, "oh you're from Singapore, you speak Singlish, right?" Actually no, it is not that simple! Singapore is a huge city with 5.6 million people and there's so much diversity in Singapore, this would affect the way a person speaks English or Singlish. For example, given that I was brought up speaking Hokkien, I use a lot of Hokkien loanwords when I speak Singlish but that would confuse someone like a younger Singaporean who doesn't know any Hokkien - that's because Hokkien is far more widely spoken amongst older Singaporeans and so even age is a factor in terms of one's accent. So an Indian Singaporean might use more loanwords from Tamil whilst a Malay Singaporean would use more loanwords from Malay and so on - as with any kind of Creole or Pidgin language, the lack of any formal rules means that you get a sliding scale rather than any one standard form of 'Singlish'. So even within Singapore, you will find that different people would speak English and Singlish quite differently because of the other languages that they speak, the kind of social class they belong to and the kind of company they keep. So for example, when I was in the army, I used to switch between different kinds of Singlish depending on the people I was speaking to - when I was speaking to my Chinese friends, I had to curtail my use of Malay loanwords and likewise, when I was speaking to my Malay friends, I avoided all Hokkien and Mandarin loanwords. We code switch and adapt constantly - it's not like we have no control over the way we talk! Actually, what we do on a daily basis requires a rather high degree of skill, tact and knowledge, carefully navigating between different accents and languages depending on the social context.
Furthermore, you can't assume all Singaporeans love the Singlish accent given that the way class identity plays a huge role in Singaporean culture these days. The way you speak English does reflect on your level of education - so a scholar who has studied at Oxford or Cambridge would sound very different from your auntie in a hawker center who hasn't had much formal education but is using Singlish as a lingua franca to communicate with her Indian and Malay customers who don't speak Mandarin. Okay, perhaps I was picking the two extreme ends of the spectrum but it does illustrate my point that you can pretty much ascertain a Singaporean's social status based on the way they speak English. I have a friend in Singapore (let's call him Terence, not his real name) who is a successful lawyer - he did his degree in the UK at a top British university and he has at best a tiny hint of a Singaporean accent. He gets the TH digraph right when many Singaporeans struggle with it. In fact, since he is speaking standard English with near perfect pronunciation, it is very hard to identify what country he is from solely based on listening to the way he speaks. Sure Terence could deliberately speak in Singlish or English with a very strong Singaporean accent (we would speak to each other like that just for a laugh sometimes), but most highly educated, highly skilled professionals like him would not speak like that because it doesn't send out the right message at work. Terence can mimic the way a taxi driver or a hawker would speak English, but the reverse is most certainly not possible. Someone like Terence can use his ability to speak English a certain way to demonstrate his social status whilst a taxi driver in Singapore may be very self-conscious about his inability to be as articulate in English. So let's not assume that taxi drivers are somehow proud or even defensive of the way they speak.
Thus going back to the story of the Singaporean lady who approached that group of Singaporeans in central London - my theory is that the tourist who was very rude to her got upset, perhaps he thought he was fitting in just fine, speaking the Queen's English in London. Maybe he thought that his English was perfect, that he was sounding so posh and refined, only for this kaypoh lady to come along and remind him that he sounds so extremely Singaporean, that he belongs in a hawker center in Toa Payoh rather than in the fine company of British aristocrats in Mayfair. The thing is that many Singaporeans actually think that they speak English extremely well but that's only because they compare your average Singaporean to people from countries like Vietnam, China and Thailand where English is not the language of instruction in school. So of course Singaporeans speak better English than their counterparts in Hanoi, Beijing and Bangkok but compared to their counterparts in London, New York and Sydney, there is still a pretty big gap. This false sense of security is built upon selectively comparing yourself to people who are worse than you whilst ignoring any evidence that may suggest the contrary. But since I wasn't there and I didn't meet this rude Singaporean guy, I don't know what was going on in his head - this is but a theory to explain why he got so upset and chose to be rude to the lady who asked him if he was from Singapore. What do you think? Why do you think he was so rude to someone who merely asked him, "are you from Singapore?" Are Singaporeans generally quite rude or do you think this man was an exception rather than the norm? So, leave a comment below please and do let me know what you think. Many thanks for reading!
Thank you LIFT for another excellent post. I will like to share my experience in my previous job as a telemarketer, selling international corporate workshop. My colleagues as well as my own experience :
Singapore : Usually very business-like, do not want to chat, just send email of the workshop, go straight to the point and sometimes even rude.
Indonesia and Malaysia : Usually more friendly, especially if you can speak Bahasa
Philippines : My favorite country to call! They are so friendly!
Thailand : Also very friendly
Australia and South Africa : Straight to the point, similar to Singapore
India and other South Asia countries : Quite friendly
African and South American countries : Mostly very friendly, especially if you can speak their native language.
It could well be the case! But I find Hong Kong more rude than Taiwanese. For PRCs, I do not had much experience. I presume Chinese in general look down on telemarketers, think we are of lower social class.
Perhaps it is the abrupt nature of the Chinese language - in other languages (such as Japanese, Korean, French, German, Welsh etc) there are so many ways to be polite when engaging another person but in Chinese, there are far fewer ways and when I hear Chinese people speak Mandarin, it always comes across as horribly rude because it is without any of these attempts to make the language sound more refined or polite. I had the same problem with Turkish as well when I was in Turkey, like there are ways to speak in a more refined, polite manner but most people are abrupt and to the point, they can't even be bothered to be polite.
As for Australians and South Africans - there's a huge difference being direct and honest and being rude. I can tell you in a polite manner that I'm not interested in your product, without being rude. There's nothing wrong with being upfront and direct, but there's something very wrong with being rude.
As a sales person, it can be very demoralising to hear prospect rejecting your proposal outright. However, it be worse if prospects lead you on, as you will waste time chasing after nothing
Wouldn't you rather have someone reject your proposal outright? That would save you time barking up the wrong tree, then you could focus on the clients who do want what you have to offer.
Well let's put it this way. I had a long conversation with another friend the other day and it was about something similar - there are some rude and unpleasant people at our gym and my response to that is just, don't talk to them, stay away from them, don't let them bother you. But she started blaming their presence for making her personally unable to train etc - and I'm like, grow up and deal with it like an adult. Likewise with you, sure I am in sales too and I've had like 2 decades of people being rude to me and saying no to me - but if they are rude, that's their problem: I make a conscious choice not to let it bother me and make it my problem. It has to be a conscious choice Jon, otherwise if you let it get to you, you'll just be miserable. You have to learn to shrug your shoulders and say, I don't care.
Thank you LIFT. I have this theory, do share with me how much you agreed. Rude people generally are miserable with their lives/jobs so they take it out on other people. Happier people generally want to share their joy and usually are nicer to others.
Hmmmm. My take on the issue is that it boils down to having the right social skills - it is far easier to make people like you, give you what you want, do what you want when you are polite to them and nice to them, that makes you likable. That doesn't always apply in all cases, but then it is about choosing the right tactics to deal with different kinds of people. It would be highly unwise to be rude to everyone - let me give you an example, I was once with this Russian friend in a Korean restaurant, she had ordered brown rice, the waiter brought her white rice and she kicked up a big fuss and scolded the waiter. And I thought, if I was the waiter, I would spit in her brown rice, mix in some urine and she's going to eat that brown rice?!?!?! Yeah, you would be highly unwise to be rude to all people and that's just a simple example of how yeah my Russian friend vented her anger at the waiter but I would have never done the same thing - not because I have any joy to share, but I don't want the waiter to sabotage my brown rice!
It is not about what each party could offer each other. It's just making connections and exchanging pleasantries. It could have gone like this:
Man: Yes, we are from Singapore. How could you tell? Was it our accent? Woman: Yes. It is quite recognizable. I was from Singapore myself. Welcome to London. Are you just visiting? Man: Yes, we are playing tourists. (Smile) Woman: Well, enjoy yourselves and have a nice day! Man: Thank you. Nice chatting. Good bye.
Pleasantries. Was that too much to ask of that man?
Hmmm I do see what you mean of course. But I tend not to speak to people unless of course, there's something that gives us a connection. I was crossing the border from Argentina to Chile earlier this year when we ran into a French couple - after weeks of speaking Spanish, it was just comforting to meet someone who spoke French and we chatted a bit about where we had been in French, because we were all more comfortable and fluent in French than Spanish. But of course, there's no need to be rude even if you don't really wanna talk.
Having said that! I do travel to a lot of places where they had never ever seen an Asian person before, we're talking like waaaaay off the beaten path places and somehow in those places, people feel like they have a right to come up to me and interrogate me in the street, "where are you from?" And I'm like, "fuck off, leave me alone. I don't wanna talk to you." It can come across as quite abrupt and rude to be at the receiving end of that kind of 'interrogation' which isn't friendly at all - sure they are curious when they see a foreigner but they have to learn to be polite if they wanna talk to me!
That's quite different. I'm not interested in satisfying one's curiosity as if I were an exotic pet. However, in this London scenario, it must have been obvious that the Asian lady was just making a connection. Whatever happened to simple manners?
It was pretty bad when I was in Georgia, Albania and Tunisia - that's not the kind of place that is popular with tourists, so the locals would come up to me and just shout, "Japan! Japan!" or in the case of Tunisia, Japon (in French) or in Georgia Yaponya (in Russian) - then yeah, as you said, I'm treated like an exotic pet. And that's when I tell them to piss off. But in this case, it's not the same, the man shouldn't have been rude with her.
Thank you LIFT for another excellent post. I will like to share my experience in my previous job as a telemarketer, selling international corporate workshop.
ReplyDeleteMy colleagues as well as my own experience :
Singapore : Usually very business-like, do not want to chat, just send email of the workshop, go straight to the point and sometimes even rude.
Indonesia and Malaysia : Usually more friendly, especially if you can speak Bahasa
Philippines : My favorite country to call! They are so friendly!
Thailand : Also very friendly
Australia and South Africa : Straight to the point, similar to Singapore
India and other South Asia countries : Quite friendly
African and South American countries : Mostly very friendly, especially if you can speak their native language.
Hence, i believe culture plays a part.
Is it a Chinese thing then? Are Chinese people just plain rude? Is that a problem with Chinese culture hence?
DeleteIt could well be the case! But I find Hong Kong more rude than Taiwanese. For PRCs, I do not had much experience. I presume Chinese in general look down on telemarketers, think we are of lower social class.
DeleteHow about the Australian and South African whites? They usually say do not waste their time if it's not a workshop that benefit them directly.
DeletePerhaps it is the abrupt nature of the Chinese language - in other languages (such as Japanese, Korean, French, German, Welsh etc) there are so many ways to be polite when engaging another person but in Chinese, there are far fewer ways and when I hear Chinese people speak Mandarin, it always comes across as horribly rude because it is without any of these attempts to make the language sound more refined or polite. I had the same problem with Turkish as well when I was in Turkey, like there are ways to speak in a more refined, polite manner but most people are abrupt and to the point, they can't even be bothered to be polite.
DeleteAs for Australians and South Africans - there's a huge difference being direct and honest and being rude. I can tell you in a polite manner that I'm not interested in your product, without being rude. There's nothing wrong with being upfront and direct, but there's something very wrong with being rude.
DeleteAs a sales person, it can be very demoralising to hear prospect rejecting your proposal outright. However, it be worse if prospects lead you on, as you will waste time chasing after nothing
ReplyDeleteWouldn't you rather have someone reject your proposal outright? That would save you time barking up the wrong tree, then you could focus on the clients who do want what you have to offer.
DeleteYes, 100% agreed, just that some prospects are very rude.
ReplyDeleteWell let's put it this way. I had a long conversation with another friend the other day and it was about something similar - there are some rude and unpleasant people at our gym and my response to that is just, don't talk to them, stay away from them, don't let them bother you. But she started blaming their presence for making her personally unable to train etc - and I'm like, grow up and deal with it like an adult. Likewise with you, sure I am in sales too and I've had like 2 decades of people being rude to me and saying no to me - but if they are rude, that's their problem: I make a conscious choice not to let it bother me and make it my problem. It has to be a conscious choice Jon, otherwise if you let it get to you, you'll just be miserable. You have to learn to shrug your shoulders and say, I don't care.
DeleteThank you LIFT. I have this theory, do share with me how much you agreed. Rude people generally are miserable with their lives/jobs so they take it out on other people. Happier people generally want to share their joy and usually are nicer to others.
ReplyDeleteHmmmm. My take on the issue is that it boils down to having the right social skills - it is far easier to make people like you, give you what you want, do what you want when you are polite to them and nice to them, that makes you likable. That doesn't always apply in all cases, but then it is about choosing the right tactics to deal with different kinds of people. It would be highly unwise to be rude to everyone - let me give you an example, I was once with this Russian friend in a Korean restaurant, she had ordered brown rice, the waiter brought her white rice and she kicked up a big fuss and scolded the waiter. And I thought, if I was the waiter, I would spit in her brown rice, mix in some urine and she's going to eat that brown rice?!?!?! Yeah, you would be highly unwise to be rude to all people and that's just a simple example of how yeah my Russian friend vented her anger at the waiter but I would have never done the same thing - not because I have any joy to share, but I don't want the waiter to sabotage my brown rice!
DeleteIt is not about what each party could offer each other. It's just making connections and exchanging pleasantries. It could have gone like this:
ReplyDeleteMan: Yes, we are from Singapore. How could you tell? Was it our accent?
Woman: Yes. It is quite recognizable. I was from Singapore myself. Welcome to London. Are you just visiting?
Man: Yes, we are playing tourists. (Smile)
Woman: Well, enjoy yourselves and have a nice day!
Man: Thank you. Nice chatting. Good bye.
Pleasantries. Was that too much to ask of that man?
Hmmm I do see what you mean of course. But I tend not to speak to people unless of course, there's something that gives us a connection. I was crossing the border from Argentina to Chile earlier this year when we ran into a French couple - after weeks of speaking Spanish, it was just comforting to meet someone who spoke French and we chatted a bit about where we had been in French, because we were all more comfortable and fluent in French than Spanish. But of course, there's no need to be rude even if you don't really wanna talk.
DeleteHaving said that! I do travel to a lot of places where they had never ever seen an Asian person before, we're talking like waaaaay off the beaten path places and somehow in those places, people feel like they have a right to come up to me and interrogate me in the street, "where are you from?" And I'm like, "fuck off, leave me alone. I don't wanna talk to you." It can come across as quite abrupt and rude to be at the receiving end of that kind of 'interrogation' which isn't friendly at all - sure they are curious when they see a foreigner but they have to learn to be polite if they wanna talk to me!
DeleteThat's quite different. I'm not interested in satisfying one's curiosity as if I were an exotic pet. However, in this London scenario, it must have been obvious that the Asian lady was just making a connection.
DeleteWhatever happened to simple manners?
It was pretty bad when I was in Georgia, Albania and Tunisia - that's not the kind of place that is popular with tourists, so the locals would come up to me and just shout, "Japan! Japan!" or in the case of Tunisia, Japon (in French) or in Georgia Yaponya (in Russian) - then yeah, as you said, I'm treated like an exotic pet. And that's when I tell them to piss off. But in this case, it's not the same, the man shouldn't have been rude with her.
Delete