The Zainudin Nordin Meme Saga: an interview

Okay a lot has been said about the Zainudin Nordin internet meme saga - what an interesting story! I have had the chance to speak to someone who used to work for him about the episode and he wished to remain anonymous for obvious reasons. So for the purpose of this Q&A, for him to remain anonymous, let's call him Amos as it sounds a bit like anonymous. Amos is a LIFTer - regular reader of my blog.

Limpeh: Hi Amos, so you used to work for Zainudin Nordin some years back?

Amos: This was many years ago, a long time ago. But yes he was my boss once upon a time. It was not in the context of the PAP, I have nothing to do with the PAP. Being an MP is not a full time job, most MPs have other jobs whilst serving as an MP. For example, MP Baey Yam Keng is a Senior Advisor at Hill+Knowlton Strategies and MP Inderjit Singh owns and runs two companies (Infiniti Solution and Solstar International) and is an executive chariman of a third (Tri Star Electronics). Can I make that absolutely clear, please? Okay?

Limpeh: Okay, so we are clear about this for my readers - you have absolutely NOTHING to do with the PAP. Absolutely NOTHING. So, what was your reaction when the story broke?

Amos: It spread like wildfire pretty quickly across social media. I saw it on Facebook, Twitter... then people around me were talking about it and I did a double take when I realized it was him. I then took the time to read about it in full and realized, okay, it was about that one quote about gang rape and I can see why people took offence to it. I realize that he was actually quoting from American writer Terry Goodkind, but still he should have been a lot more careful about what he was going to post on Facebook.

Limpeh: Okay, so the quote 'Gang rape, after all, is democracy in action' is not his words, he was just quoting Terry Goodkind - but does that make it okay? Or was he quoted out of context?

Amos: I did take the time and effort to read the Terry Goodkind extract in full because I took interest in the case - but come on, how many Singaporeans on social media are going to bother to read it? It is going to go woosh, right over their heads. It's too cheem, too verbose, it's a WOT, it's a TL;DR situation. So if you give them one line about gang rape to focus on, that's it - they're going to ignore everything else. It was a bad mistake on his part.

Limpeh: Why do you think this happened?

Amos:  He is a very well-read, intelligent man. He is very knowledgable, 很有墨水 ('very intellectual'). That is why he was quoting from Terry Goodkind almost to show off just how intellectual and well-read he was, nothing wrong with that. I am sure there are certain voters in Singapore who would appreciated having an intellectual MP. But in this case, we wondered if he was simply cutting and pasting chunks of quotes which sound interesting without actually considering just how appropriate they were or what he was trying to achieve. This is Facebook - it is social media for crying out aloud. He isn't at some NUS seminar addressing a group of philosophy undergrads - no, he is spouting this on Facebook to show off just how有墨水 he is. It was a bad choice, a miscalculation at best, a misfired attempt to show off.

Limpeh: As an MP, he should be using social media to reach out to the people he is serving, rather than use it as a platform to say, 'look at me, I am so much smarter than all of you plebs, I am going to throw very cheem quotes at you to show you all just how much cleverer I am than all of you Bengs and Lians out there.' If he had a personal Facebook profile, then he could've said this there and nobody would have bat an eyelid - but this was his MP profile.

Do you show off on Facebook?

Amos: A common opinion was that if he was being paid that much money to be an MP, then he should have checked what he was posting before being so trigger happy with the cut & paste job. After all, I don't see the point using that quote about democracy on his blog apart from showing off.

Limpeh: Why did he choose to make that point about democracy using Terry Goodkind though?

Amos: I don't know but based on my experience working with others like him, I could sense a kind of tension... one that is very Singaporean. You have to understand one thing about Zainudin - he was a late bloomer in life. He went to Tanglin Tech followed by JJC (Jurong Junior College), then instead of going to NUS he did some private diploma thingy... with some French private institute, rather like... um...

What was Zainudin like as a student?

Limpeh: Allow me to translate. He had mediocre PSLE results which led him to a neighbourhood secondary school instead of RI, he then had disappointing O level results which led him to JJC instead of RJC. His A level results were so very bad that he could not get into NUS - is that what you're saying? Sorry for being so blunt lah.

Amos: It seems un-PC to put it that way. My point is that he had to fight hard to get to where he is today - he is not like one of those Singaporean-Malay kids who did brilliantly academically and had all kinds of scholarships offered to them. There was nothing in his education that suggested that he was exceptional or MP material.

Limpeh: In order words, by Singaporean standards, in the Singaporean system, as a student, he was a disappointment. And I am already choosing my words kindly to avoid using that Hokkien phrase. Don't make me say it.

Nope, Zainudin never made it to RI/RJC.

Amos: What Hokkien phrase?

Limpeh: Bueh tak chek. There, I've said it. Surely there are plenty of other scholars for the PAP to choose from, this is Singapore we're talking about - we're so good at churning out academically brilliant straight-A students.

Amos: That is harsh lah, that's too unkind, I don't agree with you. I see him as a man who had a difficult start in life, had to battle against the odds to get to where he is today and credit where credit is due - he overcame his earlier problems to find success later on in life as an adult. He does have an inspiring story to tell to the kids who are in those neighbourhood schools, let's not forget that. He was managing people like myself who excelled in the Singaporean education system - I remember colleagues who went to the top schools, who were scholars even...

Limpeh: Was there any resentment or tension as a result of this disparity?

Intellectual people tend to be well-read.

Amos: No, not really - he was a good boss, yes he was alright lah. But one could feel that sometimes he went out of his way to prove that he was intellectual and well educated. If you didn't know the context of his background, you'd almost be left wondering why he had this chip on his shoulder to prove himself like that. This is a very Singaporean thing I think. I could be wrong of course, but you could sense....

Limpeh: Ah, like he had the urge to show off, but you think he was covering up his insecurities? Was he perhaps scared of people looking down on him if he didn't come across as their intellectual equal or superior?

Amos: Possibly. But when I saw that quote and the story unfold, I could see exactly how it had happened, it wasn't out of character for Zainudin at all, I wasn't surprised lah.

Limpeh: I was a scholar too and I can be intellectual, I could cut and paste tons of quotes from Foucault to Proust to Freud to Plato to Confucius to Aristotle on my blog - but we're living in the age of the internet and it's too easy to do a cut and paste job. The real challenge in using social media in this context is being able to connect with the people you are trying to reach, not use it as a platform to show off how well read you are.

Amos: Yes and there is a right time to try to impress people - such as during elections when you're trying to win their votes, but there is also a wrong time to try to do it.

Limpeh: Let's talk about the way he dealt with blogger Gangasudhan and the whole internet meme episode.

Amos: (Laughs) It was ridiculous. Talk about the Streisand effect. They never learn. These people at the PAP they never ever learn, they just don't get social media. The way the conduct their PR and communication has not evolved since the 1980s. They need to learn and evolve.

Limpeh: Well you've worked with Zainudin, was he bad with media and communications then?

Amos: Oh that was some time ago, but back then he had a very capable team working for him handling those aspects of media and corporate communications. So he had help... or let's put it this way, someone would have stopped him doing or saying anything inappropriate as he had a team around him to help him with stuff like that at that office. But I suppose he ran his own Facebook page so there was no one to stop him from making any mistakes.

Limpeh: Okay, at this point, please allow me to quote a comment left on Gangasudhan's blog post on this topic: Everyone please go see zainudin Facebook page - he deleted all the negative feedback and comments and kept only the supporting ones. Making it seem like nothing has happened. Taxpayers are paying mp allowance to someone like this who does not hesitate to censor and oppress free speech where people can criticise him freely. Is this the Singapore we want for our children?

Amos: Yep that is pretty typical.

Limpeh: But surely he must have sought advice before contacting Gangasudhan, no?

Did Zainudin seek legal advice before contacting blogger Gangasudhan?

Amos: Well even if he did, clearly he did not get good advice, did he? It was PR advice he needed, not legal advice. Did they think that Gangasudhan was just going to take it off his blog and it would be like removing something from a notice board in the corridor, then they can pretend the whole thing never happened? Oh please, even if he did - then other bloggers and people on social media would pick it up and start circulating it. Once you put something like that out there and it goes viral, there is no way you can take it off the internet - not unless you get rid of it within like 2 minutes. But the moment it's been read my Gangasudhan's followers on his blog, that's it - it's out there. They would've shared it on Facebook, twitted it - it has gone viral.

Limpeh: What has been the public perception of Zainudin's reaction to Gangasudhan's post? What do you think about the way Zainudin reacted in this case?

Amos: I think was probably a knee-jerk reaction, he was afraid about the negative repercussions... People thought he overreacted and he probably didn't think this one through - did he think that Gangasudhan was simply going to get scared the moment he receive an email from an MP? Hello? You're dealing with a different kind of blogger these days in Singapore. These bloggers are not scared of the government, they are willing to challenge the government and they are not going to be easily silenced. These bloggers have a strong following and they wield quite a lot of influence. 

Limpeh: Yes I have been following the Leslie Chew case.

Amos: Well, there was a change of direction when Zainudin actually offered an apology for the quote on the 10th May in an email to the Straits Times and his response there was a lot more measured than the email he sent to Gangasudhan. Limpeh, have you read his apology?

Limpeh: Yes. Do you think he will follow up with Gangasudhan? Will he be made a scapegoat as in the Leslie Chew case? What do you think will follow - will there be an arrest?

Amos: No lah... I seriously doubt it. It's not the same. Leslie Chew wrote a long series of cartoons attacking the PAP whereas Gangasudhan was a one off really. If they simply ignored it, it would probably go away in due course after a couple of weeks or when there is another juicy, exciting scandal in the headlines. This is just a storm in a teacup, an MP making a rash decision to make a bad situation worse. There's that saying: when in a hole, stop digging and I suspect there was someone in the PAP who made Zainudin apologize for this and then told him, "now keep quiet about this and it'll all blow over in due course, then we'll pretend it never happened."

Zainudin did apologize on the 10th May. 

Limpeh: It's not the first time this has happened with Singaporean bloggers getting into trouble, remember the Alex Au case? That wasn't that long ago, it was only at the beginning of this year.

Amos: And this won't be the last case like that - it is going to happen again and again. Bloggers will want to have their say about local politics and the PAP is not going to like it, but they're not going to be able to shut the bloggers up.

Limpeh: I think they have underestimated the bloggers active in the Singaporean blogosphere - people have started digging up on dirt on him and instead of burying this story, he has well and truly opened up a can of worms. Now people are talking about whether he actually served NS or not and have dug up proof that he didn't (by his own admission in his speech for the Budget 2013 Committee of Supply) - the contents of that speech was published on his Facebook page on the 11th March and had been public knowledge for over 2 months and nobody cared about it until now.There are so many questions about why he didn't have to serve NS when all the other Singaporean men did.

Amos: He should have seen this coming, aiyoh. Good grief.

People have been talking on the internet about Zainudin all week...

Limpeh: You mentioned that there was a great team working with Zainudin when you worked for him some time back, do the PAP not have a smart, young, media-savvy team working for them too? Surely they have the budget to hire the best PR people in Singapore to do their corporate communications for them?

Amos: I cannot possibly comment on the internal workings of the PAP as I have absolutely nothing to do with them, okay? But what I have observed over the years is this: big organisations can hire fancy PR agencies to give them good advice but whether or not the big boss would take that advice or even listen to it is another matter altogether. Also, there is an 'Emperor's New Clothes' syndrome, where important people surround themselves with a team of 'yes men' who only dare to say 'yes sir' to anything they want and wouldn't dare to challenge the opinions of the big boss.

Limpeh: Yes, I know what you mean. I must say, I know I am being facetious but I think I know why Zainudin was so angry with Gangasudhan. He looks terrible in that photo used in that internet meme - it is a very unflattering photo. I've looked him up on google and he has some slightly more flattering photos, but Gangasudhan had to use that one which were he just looks like some creepy uncle rather than a respectable politician.

Gangasudhan picked a rather unflattering photo of Zainudin.

Amos: I think he had more important things to worry about than that photo being unflattering! Yeah, but the whole episode doesn't really surprise me lah. This is the kind of thing you'll expect in Singaporean politics unfortunately, some things never change. You know what it is like lah, here in Singapore.

Limpeh: What was Zainudin like as a boss?

Amos: He was alright. I have nothing bad to say about him in that context but I'd rather not talk about it - I don't want to be identified in anyway... I don't want to be associated with him please. You choose a job because you want to develop your career, earn money, learn new skills - you don't choose a job because you like the boss. Such is the way one picks a job. I don't want to defend him but I don't want to attack him either. Could we leave it at that please?

Why did you pick your current job?

Limpeh: Thank you very much Amos.

Amos: Thanks, I look forward to reading the article!

As usual, please leave a comment if you have any question - I just want to clarify please (upon his request) that Amos does NOT work for the PAP. He does not support the PAP, he doesn't like the PAP at all. All MPs do have jobs outside their work as a member of parliament and Amos worked for Zainudin in that context some years ago - Amos is not involved in politics in anyway and he wants me to make it clear to my readers that he has absolutely nothing to do with the PAP in any way. Thank you for reading!