Now why do people want a degree in the first place? Do we want it because it is important for our careers? The most common reason is that it is an aspiration - from a young age, we are told that if we study hard and do well in our studies, we will get to go to university and get a degree. So many of us have that desire to become a graduate drummed into our heads from the time we are in primary school and this is often coupled with our parents' expectations that we would of course go on to university be it via the most direct route or via ITE and/or poly. Many people do not even question why they are getting their degrees - there is a sense of, "oh if everyone else is doing it, then I should too otherwise I may lose out." The word kiasu comes to mind here.
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| Do you really need a degree? |
But of course, there are professions where you need a degree to enter - such as law, medicine and dentistry. Every single lawyer, doctor and dentist is a graduate. And then there's the applied sciences in engineering. Can you become an engineer without a degree? Yes, you can - there are some aspects of engineering which are very IT focussed and a lot of this cutting edge technology is developing so fast that no university can teach their students the relevant technology fast enough; and in any case, by the time you graduate, what you learnt a year ago is obsolete and irrelevant already. Such is the nature of IT today.
Likewise, I turn my nose up at business degrees. What a total waste of time - how can you possibly learn anything about business in a university environment, from a lecturer who is in an academic environment rather than a business environment? It would be like trying to teach a class how to swim in the absence of a swimming pool or any water in the room - sure we can talk about what we need to do, what we ought to do and even write long essays about swimming, but until you actually jump into the water, how can you actually start swimming? Likewise, any kind of degree to do with media (such as 'media studies') are equally useless. Such degrees are just too general to point you in a particular direction in terms of getting a real job.
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| Are their degrees going to be useful? |
This brings me nearly onto my next point - not all degrees are equal. Some degrees are a lot more useful than others. This depends firstly on what you study at the university - now a degree in medicine or engineering would point you in a very specific direction, but what about a degree in history? Geography? English? Media studies? Business studies? Philosophy? Now an arts degree may not point you in any specific direction (I have an arts degree myself) but any degree from a prestigious university will be highly advantageous in helping you get a job.
Many employers just want to know that you are smart and not stupid - yeah, it really is that simple! So if they see that you're a graduate from Oxford or Harvard, then you're smart. If you're a graduate from some chapalang university that nobody has heard of, then you're stupid. When there are many applicants for one position, it is so easy for HR managers to dismiss those from crap universities. Welcome to the real world, HR managers don't owe it to you to find out what you have to offer despite the fact that you went to a crap university. They need someone they can rely on and train up and unless you've given them a very good reason to give you a chance despite the fact that you had a crap degree (say you won an Olympic gold medal), then most HR managers are just going to default to your university.
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| NUS is an excellent university. |
If you want to check whether your choice of university is good, then I would recommend the world ranking table. Note that NUS is ranked 29th in the world, pretty impressive I say. Now I think that anything in the top 20 is excellent. Top 50 is respectable, top 100 is decent and anything beyond that... well, it will then depend if they have a department that is a specialist in a certain field, then fair enough, but do you know that a university degree from Oxford or Cambridge (the top 2 universities in the UK) costs as much as a degree from Bolton or Abertay Dundee (the 2 worst universities in the UK). Yup, there are 120 universities in the UK and the degrees costs more or less the same whether you go to the best or the worst university. Don't forget, they take just as long! It's not as if a degree from Bolton University (currently the very worst university in the UK, ranked 120th out of 120) is any cheaper or takes less time - even if the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. Seriously, who on earth would want a degree that says, "I went to the very worst university in the country." Why not just have the word STUPID tattooed on your forehead.
Why is Bolton such a crap university? Simple. The best students fight to get into the universities in the top ten of the league table - like Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, LSE etc. Then if they cannot get into the top ten, they move down the league table and so only those with terrible results end up going to the universities at the very bottom of the league table. These are not students with straight As, no they are students who have failed their A levels but still want a degree (but don't want to resit their A levels). GIGO - garbage in, garbage out. If you start off with students who are all of a lower calibre, how are you going to make shit shine? By that same token, if Oxford has taken the very best talents from around the world, the tutors don't have to try very hard, the students are going to be brilliant anyway.
This is why employers look at someone with an Oxford degree and think, "ah if Oxford wants this guy, then he must be good." It is a vote of confidence that will make an employer give you a chance. However, a degree from Bolton isn't going to have the same effect because anyone can get into Bolton University, unlike Oxford, which is notoriously hard to get into. So a degree from any good university demonstrates that you are able to get through that rigorous selection process to earn yourself a place there - ironically, all that is decision based on your life before you even commence your undergraduate studies at the university, but there you go. The employers just wants an easy way for someone to tell them, "you can't go wrong with this guy, he was good enough for our prestigious university, we only offer places to the best students, so he must be good enough for your company."
Why is this the case? Well, there are quite a lot of companies who don't really care what you've studied at university at all. They will teach you everything you need to know for the job they want you to do - this is especially the case in banking. When you start off in banking, you will be doing very exactly what your manager wants you to do - nobody is expecting you to hit the ground running as a fresh graduate and everything will be explained clearly to you, you will be trained properly to do your job. Practically all of the stuff you've learnt at university will be totally irrelevant.
Now, let me tell you a bit more about my day job. I currently work as a consultant to a hedge funds consultancy providing solutions to deal with a very specific distribution problem pertaining to a piece of European Union legislation the AIFMD (the Alternative Investment Fund Managers' Directive) which will come into law on the 22nd July. This means that anyone selling hedge funds into the European Union needs to be aware of how the rules regulating their sales and distribution in the EU will change after the 22nd July and what they need to do to make sure they are legally compliant with AIFMD for marketing and distribution in the EU after the 22nd July 2013.
So you get the idea - we have a very niche market product for a very targeted clientèle. This is quite the opposite of a mass retail product, what we're offering is only relevant to a very small number of alternative investment fund managers, fund lawyers and fund service providers. No degree in business, finance or banking will prepare anyone for the job I am currently doing - there is just no degree in the world to deal with something as specific as AIFMD. Everything I needed to know I learnt on the job, from my bosses and through a lot of research in my own time. My arts degree is totally irrelevant and useless to me in this job and my bosses don't have a relevant degree either.
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| My degree is totally irrelevant to my job today. |
Quite simply, they have come across a business opportunity: there found a gap in the market, they realized that many hedge fund managers needed a solution to deal with AIFMD and there were very few people offering a comprehensive suite of solutions and so they did the necessary research, created a solution that they could sell to these hedge fund managers and now I am marketing that solution for them. There are two vital parts to this business: my bosses' basic business acumen on exploiting an opportunity and all of us climbing that steep learning curve so we can talk about the product intelligently. It's hard work and there's something new to learn everyday!
Did my university experience help me deal with my current challenges? Not really. Heck, I had already been studying hard, memorizing a large amount of facts and figures during my O and A levels already - there's not that much difference to what I am doing today. I have memorized everything there is to know about AIFMD and my company's solution to it, so that I can answer any question posed by the clients.
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| Would your degree lead you to your ideal job? |
Hence if I were to hire someone to offer sales and marketing support to my team (which we will in the near future in fact), I wouldn't necessarily look for someone with a degree in finance or business. No, I would look for someone who can learn very quickly and memorize a lot of new stuff overnight and English literature graduates are famous for being able to digest a large amount of books in a short time. Maybe I could use an English literature graduate because an English literature graduates will know as much as a banking/finance graduate about AIFMD. Nothing. It's just too niche and specialized. Or I might hire someone who speaks many foreign languages to help us target new markets - then this person need not even be a graduate at all to do this job well.
What is clear however is that I am not looking for someone who already knows anything about AIFMD - I will teach him/her everything he needs to know to support my team's work, I just need him/her to be a super fast learner. By that token, do I even need a graduate? No - not at all. But am I likely to hire a graduate from a good university? Possibly - but most of all, I would be looking for someone who is hungry to prove himself, someone who has a reason to want to succeed and has evidence of that in his life to show me that he has that determination in him.
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| What makes you stand out from the crowd? |
So would having a degree give you access to more jobs? Not necessarily so - you need to have a good degree from a respectable university for that to happen. So for a law degree from Oxford would open many doors, but a media studies degree from Botlon (the worst university in the UK) would probably slam even more doors shut. How can we talk about degrees as if it is a cohesive entity? Thus in a Singaporean context: a law degree from NUS is so much more respected than some business degree from SIM. NUS has a global top 30 ranking whilst SIM is not even amongst the top 5000 - NUS attracts students of extremely high calibre whilst SIM attracts students who failed to make it into the better local universities. Can I point out the obvious? SIM sucks - but you knew that already.
Would all students be able to earn themselves a place at Oxford or Cambridge? No, only the best would. Likewise, only the best students can get into NUS/NTU. Is this elitism? Of course it is - but let's look at the IQ bell curve again and remind ourselves what the distribution of IQ is amongst the human population. We're not made equal, life is massively unfair, some people have higher IQs than others - so when some naive ITE student claims that we're all equal and should be treated as such, I can only roll my eyes and laugh at just how delusional she is.
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| Where are you on this bell curve? |
So really, it boils down to the pay off: the number of years spent at university, vs increase in pay and career opportunities and you really have to consider if it is worth your time and money to get a degree if it is not a degree that is going to be respected. I shall be blunt - don't waste your time and money on a degree that isn't going to help you. If you cannot get into a good university, you may as well enter the working world a few years before your peers and gain some useful work experience. After all, in terms of your salary, it is not where you start that matters, it is what you earn eventually that matters. Focus on long term goals, not short term gains.
Lastly, I want to talk about the subject of graduate underemployment - that is the situation when graduates end up doing jobs that don't require a degree. It is actually surprisingly common and it is when having a degree does not earn you a penny more than a non-graduate co-worker who is doing exactly the same job. Bearing in mind that the graduate would have spent a lot of time and money obtaining that degree, this is a really disappointing situation for the graduate to find himself in! A degree is a major investment of time and money - one that you hope will pay off in the long run, but one has to be very aware of the risks of graduate underemployment if your degree is not going to open many doors.
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| Are you being paid more because you are a graduate? |
Many of us do end up doing jobs that are not that relevant to our degrees at the end of the day - after all, we cannot predict what job we'll end up doing at the point when we're choosing what to study at university. Is this graduate underemployment? It depends. My bosses don't even know what degree I have - they just care about what I can do for the company. Am I an underemployed graduate? I don't know - maybe (if you want to be pedantic about it), but I am certainly being paid a lot more than my peers who are non-graduates and my degree did get me to where I am today (not directly, but still it played a part in a long chain events that got me where I am).
Would I have been able to get my job without a degree? It is a hypothetical question I can't really answer as I got my job based on my work experience rather than my degree and the same could be said about my previous jobs. And yes, I guess it did play a bigger role in my first job upon graduation (which I hated and left after a year anyway) so even for someone like me, a good degree from a very respectable university didn't actually play a significant part in my career development - I ended up using my other talents like my languages and people skills which I did not pick up at university, aka 'soft skills'. Sure I enjoyed my time at university, but was my degree vital to my career? No.
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| How much of our university education is actually useful? |
I guess my conclusion is that we really shouldn't be that hung up about degrees - if you have the opportunity to do one at a good university, great! Do it, you'll have a brilliant time and it may serve you well in the future. If not, it really isn't the end of the world and there are many so other ways for you to prove yourself worthy of a job. There is something very strange going on in Singapore where people are so obsessed with getting a degree to the point where they are willing to invest a lot of time and money in a degree from a Chapalang university that is not even worth the paper it is printed on. It is a shockingly bad investment because you know that the chances of that degree helping you in the long run is actually very low. What is the point of having a crap degree like that?
In any case, even for those who did make it to good universities, competition is so intense for the good jobs these days that you need more than a good degree to secure a job. You need that extra sparkle to make a HR manager say, "s/he is special, s/he is exceptional, s/he stands out from the crowd and is different from everyone else." It is time for you to think outside the box and find your edge in this competitive environment.
As usual, please feel free to leave a comment and let me know what you think. Thank you for reading.












I beg to differ on your view on engineering with an IT focus. Unfortunately, I have heard many express the same view as you on that. Sure you can learn the next big IT thing that comes along without a degree but that is not all there is.
ReplyDeleteA proper university course in Computer Science for example, will teach you some technology but that is not the main focus. The main focus is core fundamentals. If you get these right, you will be able to pick up any brand new 'next gen' IT stuff in the blink of an eye. You will even be able to quickly figure out the pros and cons of a particular new technology and understand more intricate details of how it works. If you only school yourself based on some particular latest technology, it will be hard to have such insights when the next thing comes along.
I think too many people expect Universities to train people what to do. But they don't, they train people how to think in a particular field of study. With how to think, you can figure out what to do.
Thanks for your comment Devil.
DeleteA lot of it depends on your choice of degree - take dentistry for example, that's a classic example of being trained to do something very specific. But an arts degree is the complete opposite and you have no idea what kinda job you will end up doing with an arts degree - so they just teach you how to think and be analytical, but there is this big mismatch between what they study at uni and what they often end up doing.
It really depends on the person undertaking the course too. I have met Computer Science graduates who cannot even write a simple pseudo-code for a basic timer prototype.
DeleteLIFT, well I'm not very sure about arts degrees. But, I think it doesn't actually matter so much if one ends up doing something different. As long as one used the degree to broaden one's thinking its worth something. You never know if the perspectives you picked up is useful for something else. Indeed dentistry is a classic example of specialization. Yet I cannot imagine them not learning some general stuff about medicine as part of the course. Nor is the field of dentistry stagnant, it's certainly not the same as 20 years ago.
DeleteMSV, sure it depends on the person. If the person just wants to get through University, I won't be surprised that they learn next to nothing. That is the same for any other training besides a degree isn't it? The point is it's not the degree that is useless, it's the person not wanting to make good use of the process.
But if we apply that principle to other aspects of our lives, surely we can make good use of any experience to further our careers - and therefore a degree by that token is useful but not essential?
DeleteYes we can make use of any experience to further our careers. That is the same with or without a degree. I do not doubt there are some people that can develop all their abilities themselves.
DeleteThe question here is can you do it faster with help? It takes 4 years with help, can you imagine how much longer it will take to do it yourself? Who will be there to test your knowledge? A degree has some structure and some area of focus. What has been prepared for you is a body of knowledge and concepts that have been identified by academics as important to know. And of course you will be made to think about what has been taught. Usually, for engineering/technology related degrees there is also some stuff about the directions where things are headed.
Essential or not depends partly on what the person whats to do If you want to be able to harness the next big tech, as I have already mentioned, it helps you pick it up faster. If you want to create the next big tech without what a degree teaches you, you will have to pick up most of what the degree trains you yourself. Yes there are some talented people that can do that really quick, but I highly doubt it for the general case. Especially for tech, the amount of knowledge you need to know before you can make something new is increasing at a very fast rate. I thought edu minister was joking when he said degree is not essential but wants people to invent and program robots that can cook. What next? Invent robots that can drive your car for you? Some stuff just requires lots of expertise before they can be realized.
Then, there's the reality on the ground in SG. Do you think you will make it pass HR's razor if you apply for a job that needs a degree without one in SG? So much for a 'tight' labour market. And even better, there are some employers that band employees based on their initial qualification and you can almost never jump out of your band in your entire career. I think you will know which is the most famous example =). Also, do you think a local company will use your lack of degree as an excuse to hire someone 'skilled' and cheaper from overseas with some degree from I-dunno-where over you?
I think a degree is essential in SG. I don't believe a word they are saying about it not being essential. Why pay so much for foreigners to study degrees for free if we don't need degrees? I am surprised they decided to combat a very basic and common aspiration on the ground. As I've heard some of the older folks say, 'they are trying to keep people mentally underdeveloped to control them'.
I think I have digressed quite a bit, my initial post was just an opinion about your example on engineering/IT.
Limpeh, it would be great to hear your opinion on this issue, from someone who has worked from a media POV.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/news-websites-to-be-individually-license/690226.html
Oh yeah I know about that - basically, it is going to force some website to close but they are not going to stop people like TheRealSingapore and TheOnlineCitizen from operating on websites like Facebook. Then there are people like me - I am just a blogger, I don't run a website per se and I am not even in Singapore (hello from London), so this might mean more traffic for me? Who knows.
DeleteWhat is clear is that the PAP is going greater and greater lengths to stay in power as they become increasingly unpopular... Well, what can I say? People like myself have left and 60.14% are still going to put up with anything the PAP throws at them.
hey, how about James Cook University, Singapore? What's ur take? Thanks LIFT!
ReplyDeleteOK before I condemn just how utterly crap JCUS is, let us look at some facts shall we? JCU is an Australian university and there are plenty of good universities in Australia - JCU is NOT one of them. There are about 30 universities in Australia (including some really small ones which do get left out of some ranking systems), so really anything within the top 10 would mean you're in the top third and anything in the top 6 would mean you're in the top 20%.
DeleteIs JCU a complete disaster? No. That kind of condemnation would be reserved for those at the very bottom of Australian league table. JCU is not on the bottom - just.
The best Aussie universities with excellent world wide reputation are Melbourne, Sydney and ANU - and then there are a few others but JCU is not even in the top half of the Australian league table. 2012 ERA Australian rankings it came in 18 out of 29.
In terms of its world ranking, in the 2012 QS World university ranking, JCU ranks 362nd in the world, whilst that may not be a disastrous result, note amongst the 26 Aussie universities who were featured in that study, JCU was ranked 18 out of 26 - pretty far down the list domestically.
I could go on - but you get the idea, in terms of its ranking locally in Australia, it is not in the top half but it is not in the bottom quarter. It's domestic ranking lies somewhere around 18th or 19th out of about 30.
So even in Australia, it is not a popular choice - smart, clever Aussies with good results don't wanna go to JCU, they go to the better universities like ANU, Sydney or Melbourne.
So with this in mind, what can you expect of JCUS? How is the Singaporean entity ever gonna be better than the mothership in Australia which is not a very good university to begin with?
It is the equivalent to SIM in Australia, ie. it is a last resort. Australian students try to get into ANU, Sydney or Melbourne, if they can't get into those, then they try the second tier universities ranked like 4 - 8, then the third tier ranked 9 - 15 ... JCU is like the 4th tier, it's VERY LOW down the pecking order internally in Australia.
What can I say? It is not a good university - and for them to claim on their website "JCU is recognized in the top 4% of universities worldwide" - like if you're stupid enough to believe that, LOL. They are not even top 50% in Australia and they wanna be top 4% in the world? Get real. Their slogan should be, "messed up your A levels? Can't get into NUS and can't face retaking your A levels? Don't worry - we'll give you a place at JCUS even if you have terrible A level results!!!!"
There you go!
but given a choice btwn JCUS and SIM, do you agree that JCUS is "the better option" since both are equally expensive, and considering the fact that JCUS has a rather good BPsych course? of course, this is say a student doesnt have the option of enrolling in a local uni or going abroad to study.
DeleteIf you put it that way, I would say both are just as bad and it makes little difference which you choose. It would then boil down to the contents of the course.
DeleteBTW, I have no idea where you got the idea that JCUS "has a rather good BPsych course". I checked the QS World Ranking for top university psychology departments and JCU/JCUS isn't in the top 200. Even really crappy Aussie unis like Deakin, Wollongong and Swinburne manage to somehow sneak into the top 200. That means that JCU's psychology programme is really quite bad.
Look if you are hell bent on going to JCUS, then I can't talk you out of it. It's not a good university, they don't have a 'rather good' psychology programme and I am going to be blunt here - I would much rather you retook your A levels so you can spend your parents hard earned money on a much more respectable university like NUS or NTU which are globally recognized for their excellence.
I'm sorry I don't have any good news for you - but if you were to go to JCU's website, goodness me, their sleek marketing bullshit is so unreal it should have sent your alarm bells ringing a long time ago. Who do you wanna believe?
I think degrees are so overrated because Singapore has had very few universities for a very long time. The notion that the quality and utility of a degree depends very much on the course and awarding institute is thus foreign and incomprehensible to quite a few Singaporeans. While I was in NS, some of the regulars thought that a degree from SIM would be comparable to one from SMU, some asked me why I chose to go Cambridge when I could go to NUS - I swear my brain nearly hemorrhaged.
ReplyDeleteCue facepalm. Groan. Double groan.
DeleteWhat do u think of Nafa or Lasalle Arts school accredited degrees?
ReplyDeleteI am have a hard time 2 ask my niece to not enroll Lasalle n go for NAFA
since Lasalle is getting way 2 ex for a degree, $19k per year
It really depends on what your niece wants to do in the long run - I am not impressed with NAFA or Laselle but then again, if she definitely wants to work in the creative industries and they have a decent course to nurture her skills, then the question you really have to ask yourself is this: what else do you want her to do instead? Would she be happy studying for a degree for law at NUS if her heart is not in it? You need to have a very long talk about her long term future and career goals with her.
DeleteI studied in UCL, and when ranking was 4th in the world, I thought it was bull shit, cause I don't think I'm that brilliant and neither were my peers. Serveral of my course mates went on to study master's in oxford, not that they were exceptionally gifted or anything, but I suspect it was lucrative for the universities to accept an international student. In fact it became so ludicrous that non eu phd students were paying UCL tuition fees to do research for them. Quite sickened by all these due to people being so obsessed with rankings and these marketing ploy. If HR is only looking at universities rankings, obviously they are not doing their fucking job cause even a clerk can choose candidates by sorting their CVs. I do not entirely agree with what you said, smart employers will look further than that. Sir Jony Ive will never get employed by Apple if they just choose based on rankings cause he came from some unknown polytechnic.
ReplyDeleteWell, it's a shame that you didn't have a good experience at UCL, but it is still a pretty good indicator of one's calibre. If I had a UCL graduate vs a Bolton university graduate, I would be quite happy to assume that the UCL graduate is of a higher calibre, but I wouldn't split hairs over whether someone's university was ranked 12th or 13th - it doesn't matter that much and you must concede that for most of my article, I was arguing that a degree is not that important in some industries but if you are going to get a degree, then try to get it from a reputable university as it is a big investment of your time and money and not all universities are the same.
DeleteYou must realize that I am extremely unSingaporean in the way I place so much emphasis on having a live outside your studies, demonstrating a range of soft skills and work experience so that you can hit the ground running when you graduate and find a job quickly.
Am I being elitist in pointing out the obvious though, that a degree from UCL is worth more than one from Bolton? Has political correctness gone too far?
If someone without a degree can impress me with an amazing CV with some awesome work experience, then I'm more than happy to give him/her a job. My employers are expanding the company later in the year and we'll be in a position to hire and you know what? We don't give a fuck about degrees - no degrees required. I need someone who can work, not someone who can study.
No doubt Jonathan Ive has found other ways to impress his employers to get a head start in his career, but my point is simple: a degree from a good university can impress a potential employer, a degree from a bad university won't - but most employers will always look at the big picture. So someone from a bad university can still get a good job despite the fact that he went to a bad university - but let's not pretend that going to some crappy university of what'sthatplaceagain is going to help anyone get ahead in life.
From your reply, I guess we kind of agree that it is normally a combination of university rankings, type of speciality, and other various skill sets to determine one's career prospects. I am happy to be in the career im in now cause UCL have a very good department that gave me the skills I needed. However, I cannot help the sick fetish that some people have in the obsession of university rankings. For instance, there are non EU students who are willing to pay more than 10000 pounds a year as tuition fees and work for free in research projects, while UK and EU students are paid a salary and pay no tuition fees to work in these projects. It's like you limpeh, you are a linguist, but would you pay money to Harvard and work in the linguistic department for free just for the prestige? Maybe you would cause you are financially secure, but guess you see my drift. Of course no one pointed a gun at them and it is by choice, but isn't that quite dumb if people left out economic viability from the equation? Also isn't these top universities abusing their status to get free labour? Furthermore universities ironically rely on these international student population to improve one university ranking whom were financially abused. One could argue it is the local students whose parents pay taxes and therefore they can be heavily subsidised, which that i agree. Perhaps this is accentuated from the fact that singapore universities have the opposite policy which dishes out scholarships to foreigners freely even though some singaporeans are actually much more deserving. Maybe you could write an article on university education system in UK and europe to that of singapore.
DeleteHi LIFT, came across your great article and I want to ask you some question.
ReplyDeleteI'm 19, a year 2 Ngee Ann Polytechnic Business Studies Student, and my cumulative GPA is only 3.7. This GPA would not bring me anywhere in commerce NTU,NUS and SMU; so I'm sandwiched between SIM and uninterested courses in Singapore top universities.
However, I realize it is possible for me to get an excellent overseas degree like UniMelbourne and UniSydney with modules exemption. The only issue is that my family is not rich enough to pay my school fees and I might have to take up $100k student loan from OCBC.
I'm really hungry to prove myself to be successful in workforce. Is it worth the effort and time to take up the degree and repay my loans later in life?. Please guide me along while I'm young, thanks!
Really appreciate for reading and look forward to your comments. You may email me at Moonlit_Vision@hotmail.com
Hi Zi He, thanks for your comment. I do not enter into email correspondences with my readers but I am happy to respond to you here.
DeleteTo be honest, I am at a lost here as I am not quite sure what to recommend because I would have very strongly recommended against doing business studies in poly in the first place, never mind pursuing it at university level. I am very strongly against any kind of business degrees as I believe that they are a big waste of time: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-myth-about-business-degrees.html
I know you've only written a very short message here - but I'm missing a vital piece of information here to write any kind of useful advice: what do you want to do with your career? Cos right now, all I am hearing is that you want a good degree (yeah okay I get it) - but what is this degree for? What kind of career do you want - what kind of company do you want to work for? What kind of profession would you like to pursue? What are your ambitions?
You see, whether or not you go for an expensive degree; where you do it, what you study etc - all this depends on WHAT kind of career you want afterwards and perhaps it was just an oversight on your part, but without telling me this vital info, how can I possibly point you in the right direction without knowing where you want to be headed in the first place?
Hi LIFT, I have to admit I really enjoy your blog because it is so informative in the sense that I can get both sides of the argument regardless of the topic.
DeleteActually, I have some questions regarding whether my degree and I hope you can help me by providing your sincere opinion. Below is my introduction about myself which hopefully can give you a better insight.
I am a 19 years old Malaysian guy who studies in Brunei. I have just completed my CIE A levels last year 2013 and had gotten my results. Sad to say, I have gotten 4A in physics, chemistry, mathematics and Economics and 1 disheartened C in further maths. Well frankly speaking, I am quite disappointed because I am just 1-2 marks from getting an A star in 3 of my 4 subjects. Sorry if I sound like a sore loser but still it hurts. This is also my fault because I only took my further maths when I was in my second year despite strong objections by my teachers. Regardless, I went on and didn't feel too bad about my decision because I can cope with it just need more practice.
For your information, I have opted to study chemical engineering in university. At the moment, I have applied through UCAS, NUS and Malaysia universities. However I will only talk about the former two options as I am not too keen to study in Malaysia. From my UCAS, I have applied to Bath, Manchester, Birmingham, Loughborough and Imperial College for my above mentioned course. I have received 4 offers but I have yet to get any response from Imperial. Without a doubt, Imperial is my first choice but realistically speaking I have no chance to enter with my results. Even though they do consider unit grades and may let me in (MIRACLES) but I will still decline. It may be dumb in your eyes but to me I want to get in by my own merit. I believe even if I was just 1 mark off but the fact that I failed to achieve the required grades now mean I am not good enough despite I am taking 5 A levels. Now, I have my eyes set on Manchester as my firm choice and Bath as my insurance. Therefore, I want to ask do you agree with my reasoning. Also, Manchester is also quite good but still it lacks the prestige to vow employers off their feet as imperial so will I be looked down even if I get 1st class there?
2) Actually Manchester has quite a lot of research power and is quite academic but still it sounds lacking as compared to Imperial. I really want to study in a more prestigious university if possible. I will focus on getting my first class in Manchester then I can proceed to do my masters in either Cambridge or Imperial by then. This is because I have a senior doing that as well so she has told me not to look down on Manchester, It's actually quite good. Now she is in Cambridge because she excelled with a first class in BEng chemical engineering in Manchester. Hence is my thought correct?
3) I have applied to NUS right but I will only know whether I am accepted by May. Yeah, you might ask why go to Manchester instead of NUS. Right, NUS is in top 10 in the world for my course but I am not inclined to go there because of several reasons. Firstly, I want to study in UK for its cold weather as it's hot here in Brunei. Furthermore, I want to go on a tour around Europe during my summer holidays. Another reason is I am afraid I might not excel in Singapore. It’s not because it is tough. It's the study environment and ultra competitive nature that scares me. I am not a person who studies every single day. In fact I am grateful that I managed to get respectable results just by really understanding my lectures, asking questions and doing homework. You can say that I am actually being scolded by my mom for not studying consistently. She always pushes me to the brink but I love her because all I have is due to her nagging. LIFT, can you explain to me how tough is NUS and what will I miss by going to Manchester instead?
Hi and thanks for your comment. It is very late and I've had a long day. Before I give you a longer reply, can I ask what you wanna do with your career? A degree is but a means to an end, you need to know what you wanna do as an adult and choose a degree course that will serve you well. You seem to be splitting hairs about the degree - the way you talk about getting in Imperial on your own merits made me have a major face-palm moment. You're totally asking the WRONG questions.
DeleteYou need to think 10, 20 years down the road. What kind of job do you want to do in 10, 20 years time?
I'm afraid it's a very Asian problem when Asian students get so obsessed with their studies (and I blame the parents as well) that they forget that they need to work at the end of the day and after they get that degree.
At the end of the day, you're going to have to WORK after you graduate, and working is nothing like studying - you have to do real stuff so really, it is frustrating for me to see that your focus is so ... shortsighted. You're obsessed about short term goals and have not at all focused on long term ambitions. Sorry if that sounds harsh but so many Asian students make this mistake and really, I must warn you that you're asking all the wrong questions in the first place.
I wanna help you man, but you've gotta ask the right questions to begin with. And right now, I know this sounds harsh, tetapi awak yang salah man, sangat salah. Alamak. You're asking the wrong questions. Maaf lah.
Hi Lift, thanks for your comment. I want to be a chemical engineer who can hopefully invent a cheaper solar panel or some other energy saving inventions. This is because I find that I have a great interest in business since I was young. Without a doubt, I definitely envision myself to set up my own company one day.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I want to apologise for being ironic because I talked about wanting to enter imperial but not wanting to go to. I admit it's due to my upbringing but hey I can deal with it. I have decided to go Manchester. It's my life so it's foolish to ask you whether I made a right one. Only time will tell and never try never know.
Yeah I know work is nothing like study and hey I have a long road ahead. Right now, I am working. I am also learning hakka and hokkien. I teach myself a lot of things. So far, It's great because I realise these skills are as vital as what we learnt through books.
Lastly, I tend to be short-sighted in terms of goal. Thanks for helping me to realise I shouldn't be too obssessed over it.
Whilst I wish you all the best, I think you will regret going to Manchester over Imperial in the long run - I think you're making a big mistake.
DeleteI know but I was just rejected by Imperial. It doesn't help that I failed to achieve the grades that they asked for. Thanks anyway
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI know this is very old post.But I need you advice.I graduated with poly with gpa of 3.2.
Although my gpa is quite low for university, I achieved director list on one of the sem and won several book prizes.The issue here, I want to go degree.Seeing most of my peers going degree,make me so jealous.any advice?
It depends entirely on what university you can get into with your grades. If you can only get into a chapalang university, then what is the point? You're just waiting your time and money. Not all universities are equal and if you graduate from a crappy shitty university, then you are not going to get the same kind of respect as an NUS/NTU graduate. Get real.
DeleteHow about SIT university. Any advice?
ReplyDeleteNope, I am not impressed either: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/universities-in-singapore-how-many-is.html
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