Sunday, 27 August 2023

Cycling, growing tomatoes, China and social skills

Hi guys, I'd like to share with you something that happened and use it as an example of how important social skills are in our relationships. I fell off my bike today, stupid mistake and this happened when I pulled up to a red light. Directly in front of me was a car and a motorbike was to the left of the car, so I thought I'd squeeze into the gap between the car and the motorbike whilst waiting for the lights to change. However, as I approached that gap, I second guessed myself, thought that the gap was too small for me to squeeze through and changed my mind. I tried to brake but I lost my balance and fell off my bike. I didn't hit the car but I brushed against the motorbike as I fell. The motorcyclist immediately berated me for my impatience, he shouted at me, "why did you try to squeeze through that tiny gap? Even if you could get through, how many seconds did you think you were going to save?" The car driver didn't care if I was hurt, he was more concerned if I had scratched his car. A pedestrian who saw me fall over helped me to the pavement where I stood for a brief moment with my bike before continuing on my journey - I wasn't injured but allow me to point out that I had already chastised myself for the error I made. Yes the fall did hurt, it was painful and I paid the price for my mistake. I am going to remember that accident and the next time I encounter a similar situation, I would not try to squeeze into any more small gaps like that - I will err on the side of caution to avoid an accident. I am sensible enough to have learnt my lesson. When I told my husband about what happened, he told me that it could have happened to any cyclist because we see a gap whilst we're cycling: we have a split second to make a decision about whether or not that gap is big enough to go through. Given how quickly we have to make that decision, sometimes we might misjudge the distance and that is called human error.  He also said there was an element of pure bad luck as well - if I had set out a few minutes earlier or later, that accident wouldn't have happened. This happens to all of us and he told me that as long as I was not badly hurt when I fell and that is the most important thing - as he knows that I will handle similar situations in the future a lot more wisely. 

Now if I told my family about that same accident, I know they would 'scold' me for being so careless or stupid when I was cycling and that's their way of showing that they care about me. I don't respond well to that as I don't think any kind of 'scolding' is warranted in this case - I have already learnt my lesson and thus I take it as an insult if they think I deserve a scolding as if I was a dumb child who wouldn't have learnt my lesson without some element of punishment on their part. I do recall an accident I had when I was about 7 years old, I lost control of my bicycle and crashed into a drain. Of course, my parents scolded me when they found out about it as they didn't want a repeat of that accident. But here's the thing, I'm now 47 years old and I think my parents don't know how to respond otherwise - they simply don't have the social skills to know how to deal with such a situation and that's why I wouldn't even talk to them at all about what happened as I don't want to risk being disappointed with their response. They simply don't know any other way to let me know that they care and my sister suggested just ignoring them when they say something inappropriate or stupid - it is this habit of simply saying the first thing that comes to mind without any filter whatsoever. Now I accept that there may be an element of human error in our choice of reactions, I too have said or done inappropriate things in the past but I'd like to think that has been the exception rather than the norm; the same way that accident I had at that junction when I fell off my bike was a rare incident rather than something that happens every time I get on the bike. But allow me to give you some examples of how my parents react by telling me the first thing that comes to their mind and why I feel frustrated as a result. So for example, I once was showing my mother the plants in my garden when I pointed out to her that I had some tomato plants, there were some fruit on the plants but they were green and unripe. Her reaction was to advice me not to pick the unripe tomatoes, that upset me as I was the one who fed her that information in the first place, she knows nothing about gardening or how to grow tomatoes. I realize that she was merely blurting out the first thing that came to mind: but she made it sound it it was useful advice. She failed to take into account of the fact that I didn't need any kind of advice on the matter: the Chinese phase 轮不到你开口 comes to mind as she should shut up about stuff she knows nothing about. 

So what would have been a better response in that situation? Well instead of simply blurting out the first thing that comes to mind, a more intelligent person might have asked questions like, how long does it take for the tomatoes to ripen? How many tomatoes do you harvest from your garden every year? Do they taste different from the tomatoes that you buy in the store? Do you tomatoes grow as big as the ones we see in the supermarkets? Why do you like growing tomatoes, would you like to grow other kinds of fruits and vegetables as well? Note that you don't have to know much about growing tomatoes in order to have an intelligent conversation on the topic, but such questions would at least demonstrate some level of engagement beyond blurting out the first thing to comes to mind. Let me give you another of how my parents have no idea how dumb their responses are: when I was last in Singapore, I told my father that I was going to have to call my client in China. My father's response to that was, if he is in China, you have to speak to him in Mandarin - they speak Mandarin in China. Now did he think I was going to speak to Mr Yang in French, German or Spanish instead of Mandarin? And did he honestly think that despite having done so much business in China, I had no idea what language they spoke there? Actually, that's just my father blurting out the first thing that comes to his mind again without taking even a moment to consider if what he was saying was of any value or helpful. If it is information that I already knew (such as people in China speak Mandarin), then offering it to me would be wrong on so many levels. Firstly, I felt insulted that my father imagined that I didn't already know that fact about what language was spoken in China, did he think I was that stupid? Secondly, I am felt frustrated by the fact that my friends can have intelligent conversations with their fathers whilst I am stuck with a father who is so uneducated he is incapable of saying anything intelligent. Now I can live with the fact that my father is stupid, I've come to terms with it and have accepted it but what I cannot accept is the fact that he still wants to think that he can offer me useful information when I'm like, just stop it, shut up, you embarrass yourself the moment you say anything as you're that stupid. I know I cannot cure my father of his stupidity and ignorance by scolding him, thus I don't quite know how I am supposed to respond in this kind of situation - it is 轮不到你开口 again. 

So in this example with my client in China, I can think of so many questions that my father could have asked. How long have you known this client? Is he a friendly person and easy to deal with? Where in China is he based? Are you going to go visit him in China soon? What kind of company does he work for? Is he older than you or younger than you? What kind of project are you working on together? Is he well educated, does he speak English? I can think of dozens of questions to ask, but my father simply doesn't have the mental capacity to engage me on that level - he simply defaults to saying the first thing that pops into his mind like a young child incapable of anything more complex. However, the dynamics with a young child is totally different - so imagine I spoke to a young girl and told her that I was doing business in China and the young girl points out to me that she knows they speak Mandarin in China, the standard response would be for me to then praise the young girl for knowing that fact. However, in the case of my father, well he isn't looking for praise that same way - I actually think he is so socially inept that he actually believes that he is being helpful and obliviously creating a socially awkward situation where I am reminded that I succeeded in business in spite of my parents rather than because of them. I told this to my sister and she just shrug her shoulders and told me that she has learnt to ignore them and that my parents talk like that because they're lonely, they crave some form of social interaction and they will just say things for the sake of talking without thinking if they are contributing anything interesting or useful to the conversation. I can tell that my sister is just so used to hearing my parents spout rubbish all the time that she doesn't even roll her eyes anymore when they say something stupid again. She would talk to them out of a sense of duty, to stop them from becoming lonely whilst having very low or no expectations at all about the quality of conversation that she is going to have with them. I am sure you have heard me use this saying before on my blog: a pessimist is never disappointed. Therefore my sister is not left disappointed and frustrated with my parents because of her very low expectations - which begs the question: am I the one who has unrealistically high expectations then? Am I at fault here? 

Perhaps it is my nature as a businessman that has compelled me to ignore my parents, in business, we have to focus on the relationships that are most productive and lucrative. If you know that you are very unlikely to do any business with someone, then you simply ignore them - it's nothing personal, it is just a strategy to be efficient with our time. Neither or my sisters work in a business environment, they are both civil servants so my ruthlessly efficient business-like approach to relationships may come across as harsh, even heartless at times. But I don't apologize for having this attitude - it has served me well in the world of business and thus I don't see why I need to change or make an exception. So that's it from me on this topic, what do you think? How would you react if a good friend told you that they fell off their bike? How would you react to people like my parents who simply say the first thing that pops into their head without any filter or more sophisticated thought process? Do you think that I'm being way too cruel in my decision to stop talking to my parents or am I merely being quite rational in light of their behaviour? Please leave a comment below and many thanks for reading. 

60 comments:

  1. Hey Alex. I don't know if you still feel any "love" for your parents, but anyone who doesn't respect you enough to find out your opinion before giving their own isn't worth your time. A phrase I recently came across was "you don't have to smile just to keep other people happy, it's okay to have a shit day and feel shitty, and visibly so."

    Actually I had a similar incident recently. I just started fencing class, but because I'm somewhat good for a newbie, the lead instructor really likes me. Also his dayjob is something related to science, so he likes to geek out with me about math equations to improve fencing techniques. Anyway, a couple days ago he was supposed to referee two other people in a duel. But halfway through the duel he saw me queuing up for my turn in the ring, and putting on my fencing mask wrong and stopped the duel just to walk over and yell at me for bending some metal part over and over because then I'd cause my mask to break faster, and possibly break mid-duel months later and hurt myself. I immediately had a panic attack, a feeling I need to throw up, and couldn't fence anymore. So I sat down and drank water and watched the other fencers fight. The 2nd instructor walked over and asked me how I was doing, and if I was unwell, then asked me questions about myself like what was fencing like in Singapore since I seem to have some experience. Now she has good social skills. I immediately felt better, and was about to start dueling again, but then I decided no, because if I make a mistake in the ring I'm gonna get yelled at again by instructor #1 and have another panic attack, and I have to drive home and can't risk that. This was despite me wanting to smile and fight on just so my friends don't think something's wrong with me, but then I said to myself, it's okay to look tired or sad, anyone who says you can't is an asshole who only wants to see the convenient version of you. The lead instructor never asked me how I was doing or why I stopped fighting. He did walk up to me at the end of class to congratulate me for fixing his sword using my engineering skills, but that was just a tone deaf way of getting attention from me because I heard him say it in a sad way. I know he was just upset I didn't keep on fighting so he didn't get a chance to fight me and scold me in the ring.

    Part 2 coming up below.

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  2. Also I realized, the lead instructor reminds me of my dad, who really loved me for the same reasons lead instructor likes me, but if it's about something he's passionate about, will scold me for any little thing I didn't get perfect. But I love my dad, who I really miss because he died when I was a teenager, so it really hurts me to distance myself from the lead instructor. But I just need to or else I'm constantly gonna live in fear of being scolded for not doing everything perfect, not have my opinion or well being asked about, and these panic attacks just get in the way of me concentrating at work or being happy enough to see my new friends. Like jeezus, my mask would only break months from now, not today if I kept on bending it wrong, why couldn't the lead instructor politely tell me at the end of class instead of briefly ditching referee duties to yell? And somehow my stupid mask or the fixed weapon was more important than the fact that I was too unwell to fight for the rest of the lesson. So the next lesson I asked to talk privately to the lead instructor before class, and I told him I don't like unsolicited advice, and I'll come to him if I need more. He wasn't happy, and wasn't smiling as per usual, but because we are not family and I'm just a client, he's probably scared I'll leave a shitty google review so he complied. It hurts me to think that had my dad lived I probably would've had to distance myself from him too, because I really love him and I know he loves me. But given that fencing mask incident, events like that just prevent me from enjoying life to the fullest, so I choose making myself happy rather than trying to make someone else happy. At least if I'm not close to the lead instructor I won't care so much if another scolding happens.

    I was tempted to tell the lead instructor about my dad, life, and all the shit things that happened because he has a teenage daughter who I hope he isn't messing up in the same way, but my friends said "you can't "fix" other people, any more than they can "fix" you to be their ideal version. The only person who can fix someone is themselves, because change takes so much effort on the part of the individual, and has to be voluntary."

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    1. Hi Amanda, allow me to respond to what you have shared. I have covered this topic recently, whether we freak out when we're confronted with a crisis or if we rise to the occasion and deal with the problem. I used the example of a madman chasing me down the street with a massive knife in Panama - I think in this case, you went into meltdown by acting like the damsel in distress. I hate to be harsh on you but I think we know each other well enough for me to tell you that there's a much better way to deal with this situation. In America, when people get bad service (as a paying customer, might I remind you), they go full Karen. I've gone full Karen on people before when I get bad service in a restaurant and it is a way to assert my authority, to remind the other person that they cannot speak to me like that. I have learnt from the past that simply keeping quiet and taking the abuse isn't going to resolve the matter and it won't make you feel any better.

      Allow me to give you a case study from my gymnastics club. In the winter, the gymnasts can come in from the cold and may choose to keep a jumper on during the warm up when it is very cold outside - that's normal but the coaches insist that there are no flappy fabrics that may swing around. So if you keep a jumper or sweater top on, it has to be tight fitting. Like if it has a zip, it must be done up fully. This French lady wore a scarf as she claimed, her neck was cold. The coach whom we shall call NM came up to her and demanded that she took it off, but he did it in such a way that came across as very rude. I was there and witnessed the whole thing - so whilst I agreed that the French lady shouldn't be wearing a scarf during gymnastics as it was a health & safety issue, NM was also in the wrong as he didn't use the right tone of voice to convey his instructions. He claimed it was a a straight forward order, not a polite request, the scarf had to go whether she liked it or not - but I pointed out that whilst he had a point, he could've expressed himself in a far more polite way without being so rude. The French lady raised hell, she went full Karen on NM and took the complaint all the way to the top. Hence both head coach and sports centre relied on my witness testimony (as I'm a trusted pair of hands and seen as a reliable witness in instances like that) and I told them, "NM needs to offer French lady a grovelling apology, no ifs, no buts." And that's what happened, French lady accepted his apology because NM was told, if you don't offer her an unconditional apology, we will sack you.

      So Amanda, you can still go full Karen if you want to, like this French lady.

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    2. And as for my parents, no I feel nothing. No love, in the past there was some element of sympathy or pity, but now there's nothing. They could've made an effort to reach out to me but they didn't and thus if I never speak to them again before they die, I have no regrets. Sorry to drag Choaniki into this, but he has a very acrimonious relationship with his father and they argue a lot. Practically every conservation ends with a nasty quarrel. And I'm like, at least I don't argue with my father but I have created that peace by simply avoiding all contact - if any kind of contact simply leads to conflict, isn't a truce a much better alternative to conflict? Which alternative is better: Choaniki speaking to his father and arguing all the time? Or me simply no speaking to them at all (and thus having this peaceful truce)? If my parents were in advanced stages of dementia whereby they can't even remember what year it is, then perhaps it would be a lot easier to get along with them as that would force me to lower my expectations to the point where I would willingly give my time and expect absolutely nothing in return. But no, actually, they're not senile (not yet anyway) and they're still able to function mentally and these ridiculous responses (ref: unripe tomatoes and people in China speaking Chinese) are simply a manifestation of their very poor social skills - you can't even blame that on dementia, they're just being stupid idiots with zero social skills. It brings me no joy to pick a fight with them and remind them how stupid they are, that's why I have avoided all contact for much of this year, simply to maintain this peaceful truce. So if you compare 2023 to 2022, I've had less arguments with my family because of this truce - surely that's a good outcome by some measure, right?

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    3. Hahaha full Karen! Maybe I'm just too scared of conflict to even Karen. I've never won much arguments in my own family, what are the chances I win outside of it? I still feel crap though about my dad... I used to really love him but now I'm remembering all the bad memories about being made to stay up late to win a science fair. I remember nothing bad happened to me in the first fencing lesson, but the next day I still had a panic attack. Some of my friends are like "it's just a fencing class, there is no money at stake", but I still feel crap.

      Yeah that's the thing, why speak to people if they don't even reach out to you? If they don't make the effort, are they really worth you reaching out? And if the conversation is bad, then it doesn't sound worth it. But yeah, effort needs to be made on both sides ,otherwise it's not the fault of the party who keeps trying and has to make all the accommodations.

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    4. Hi Amanda, I don't necessarily support the Karen behaviour by kicking up a big fuss but take the French lady for example - she didn't raise her voice. She methodically checked if I had witnessed the incident and confirmed that I was happy to support her in her formal complaint about NM's behaviour as a coach. I want the best for you but I cannot be there to take care of you 24/7 and the next best thing is to make sure you will always take good care of yourself. That's why I am always telling you to stand up for yourself and defend yourself, don't wait for someone else to step in when you're the damsel in distress - you must be your own best friend and super hero everyday. Whilst I don't want conflict either, I know that if I just took the abuse, I wouldn't be happy either with the situation and so standing up for myself is a necessary step I have to take, even if that means creating some form of conflict. I wanted to use the case study of the French lady at my gym that you can indeed win an argument and stand up for yourself - she made sure of that and that's a brilliant role model for you.

      As for our families, I have chosen to keep my distance from them as I don't have anything to gain by further interacting with them. No I never won any arguments in my family before but the fact is, I was the youngest child so the power dynamics were always set against me and there were so many instances whereby arguments were won/lost based on those power dynamics as opposed to my debating skills to present a cogent and convincing argument. Admittedly, I used to get panic attacks before when I was a lot younger (mostly in my late teens) but I remember once lying on the floor at home after a full scale panic attack, I looked around the room and thought, no one is here to pick you up no matter how you fall apart, no one cares if you're having a panic attack so you'd better learn to pick yourself up. I'm sorry if that sounds unsympathetic but either you learn to be tougher as you go through life or you go to a shrink who will give you loads of medication to keep you so calm that you never get upset. I don't claim to be perfect, I can have my mental health episodes as well - one clinical psychologist described it like that to me. We all have a shit bucket that we have to carry everyday and some days it is more empty, some days it is more full. Then there will be days when it overflows and we have to learn how to cope when that happens, we cannot simply just fall apart. We call for help, we learn to forgive ourselves for our mistakes, we learn not to take simple things for granted, we learn to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. There are so many things that we can do when that shit bucket overflows, but we also have to learn that simply being a damsel in distress isn't going to clean up that mess as that response means we expect someone else to step in with the mop and start cleaning up for us - no, whilst it may not be our fault that the shit bucket is overflowing, we are still responsible for dealing with the aftermath.

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    5. You know I want the best for you Amanda and sometimes there is an element of tough love when it comes to my advice to you. You should see the way I deal with Choaniki - a lot of that tough love as well and I'm quite unforgiving if he barks up the wrong tree or does something impractical. I'm not from the 'sayang sayang brigade', I believe in pragmatic, practical solutions for real life problems.

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    6. @Amanda, you story reminded me of something I just experienced recently which I would share, if you could indulge me.

      So i was doing freelance work at this MRI clinic. This is my first time there and I met 2 other radiographers who were also freelancers (a male and a female).

      I thought everything was find and went home after work. But the very next day I receive a "feedback" from my agent. Someone at that clinic had complained that I was talking about financial products the whole day with the female freelancer. This is straight up slander.

      Now for some context:
      The female had left work at 5pm as she had to fetch her kid from childcare. Since there was no more patients I started chatting with the male freelancer and he asked me which other clinics I freelance at. I told me that healthcare is merely my side hustle and my main hustle was in finance. So he started asking me about ETF which I answered.

      So I had talk about 1 financial product to the male for less than 1 hour. So the complaint made was malicious and meant to smear my reputation. I contacted the clinic manager and told her that I don't take kindly to people who go around my slandering my name. Either you issue me a formal apology or I stop business with you. Since they manager refused get the complainant to comply I decided to fuck their shit. I don't need their money.

      So the moral of the story is that sometime you just have to put you foot down and refuse to deal with people who give you a hard time.

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    7. Y'know what Alex, actually my inability to Karen is probably a bigger issue than I thought. I spoke to the fencing instructor and he said he wasn't trying to be a bitch or anything and it was nothing personal, he just wanted me to learn stuff. But in the past I've been forced to work overtime hours in academia just because "everyone is depending on you", and that's because I wasn't allowed to stick up for myself in my family ages ago. I wished someone said ages ago that I can turn down big opportunities and not be a bad person for it if it doesn't make me happy. And other people can manage their own career success, I don't owe them anything, especially if I'm doing disproportionately more work than them. Yeah I am a big people pleaser and it can make me very unhappy because I'm always scared to speak up because I fear something bad is gonna happen to me compared to not speaking up. And it's worse when it's people I'm close to or people I like. I'm afraid to disappoint family and friends because I come from an abusive family where speaking up doesn't usually result in being heard or problems getting resolved.

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    8. Hey Alex, I really like that "shit bucket" metaphor. One of my friends who also comes from an abusive family tells me "I just want someone to love me..." and I think that's not a very useful thing to say because even if someone gives her all the love and attention in the world, its up to her to solve her own problems. Every problem she has, her solution is to go unload on a friend, but not go fix the problem. So the problem is still there, and everytime she has a panic attack she needs to find someone to talk to, but the panic attacks only go away temporarily and eventually re-occur because the issue is still there. And I get that she and I never deserved to grow up with all this trauma, but there's nobody who can "mop up that shit" but us. I try to make lifestyle changes, and omg walking up to the fencing instructor and saying "please don't talk to me like that" was really scary, but I had to tell myself "what's the worst that can happen? Are you just gonna run from every single place where someone is mean to you or are you gonna change the script this time and see if there's a different outcome?" My friend who also has the abusive family, she never really confronts people. In fact she told me she doesn't wanna get a roommate because in the past her roommate "secretly hated her." I don't understand what she meant by "secretly hated", but it sounds like she thinks making that statement absolves her of any responsibility to either find a better roommate or reach a compromise with any existing roommates if she's having issues with them. It's a statement that sounds like "oh if something bad happens to me, there's nothing I can do...it's not my fault or responsibility...woe is me, I'm such a victim..." I do feel bad that my brother didn't have much of a relationship with my dad growing up because he stood up to him when he was acting like the fencing instructor while I people pleased. Like as a parent you may disagree with your child, but if you never let them stick up for themselves and respect them for it, they're gonna struggle when they're adults. My brother's like "I know we really loved dad, but part of growing up is realizing our parents aren't perfect."

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    9. Hey Alex. Oh yes I've heard of Miley Cyrus' song. It's like I have to teach myself how to do normal things to be a functional person in adulthood. And that's a lot of work... but well life is short, gotta do something about it, even if it's hard and I'll have days where I'm just completely down and can't do much aside from watching tv on the couch. I have this friend who told me his dad also died 10 years ago and he hasn't spoken to his narcissistic bipolar mom since the funeral. His reaction was "Amanda you're still in your 20s, in a good career path, you can pick and choose your relationships now. Think of how much life you have left to live that you can choose how you live if you just forget all the crap that happened that you couldn't control."

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    10. @LIFT, I have read and heard of lots of investment gurus advocating reconciliation with your parents and other broken relationship. You and I both know that it is nonsense.

      My dad would never admit he is wrong, and I am perfectly ok with that. I am also perfectly okay with him passing on with our relationship as distant as it is currently.

      It takes 2 hands to clap and 2 parties to come to the table to reconcile.

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    11. I once wrote a blog post on this topic - there was a Tedtalk by a woman who advocated that but if you heard her speech, it's all about that sense of holiness she feels when she forgives undeserving people. It's her saying, "you've wronged me, you're the nasty beast but I am such an angel that I forgive and accept you regardless - so that makes me holier than thou." I found her logic so flawed of course, it is a personal choice whether or not to pursue such relationships and on what basis, but to use this to feel holy and righteous? No, there's so much real charity in the world that can be done - go volunteer for a charity and do some good if you really wanna earn the right to feel holy and righteous; forgiving people in your life like that doesn't make the world a better place. For myself, I've chosen this path of 'peaceful truce' whereby I just avoid people I can't and won't forgive. I don't need to forgive them or resolve anything as long as our paths don't cross - that's how I get the results I want.

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    12. Yes, I remember that post. I thought her talk was bullcrap then and I still do now. Probably some form of virtue signaling and not really any actionable advice.

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    13. Y'know Alex it's quite interesting you bring up the "sayang sayang brigade." I notice some people don't go to therapy, and don't need it, they're just calm and cold-blooded and try to make lifestyle changes as best as they can. Then there's people who love to talk all the time about their issues, and they just need it or else they'd probably turn to substance abuse or other nasty things. And I think I'm just in the latter camp. It's not that I don't work on my problems, but talking is how I work through them. And that concept of "making yourself miserable through mindset", I have a friend who is in his 50s and he still complains about his dad and things the dad said when he was a teenager. And till today he still has low self esteem, and when things don't work out in his career he'll think people don't want to be around him because he failed, when it's just all in his head and his friends don't care. But at the time I didn't realize he needed someone to validate his concerns, because I didn't realize I had issues too. At the time I said to him "no, nobody cares you failed at X, you're still a very smart person", but I think what needed to be said instead was "people shouldn't attack you for failing at X, period. And if they do, they can fuck off. I'm so sorry someone did that in the past to you." I have a cousin who is also like you and says "hey let's forget the past, I'm not in the sayang sayang brigade either. You don't need therapy, you just need to work on yourself" who I know really cares about me, but we probably just don't deal with our issues the same way. I have 2 other friends who are more chatty about problems and I'm very thankful they offer to listen to me when I need it. But I'm also careful to make the problem go away so I don't talk about the same problem twice. They also wanna see me get better, not just wallow in self pity forever.

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    14. Hi Amanda, what I have come across in the past is that even if I do come across someone who is from the sayang-sayang brigade, they may be motivated by kindness but they don't know what to say and I'm left in the situation whereby I find myself faulting them for saying the wrong thing(s) despite having the motivation to try to help. I then think, why the hell did I even come to you to talk about this in the first place when you're no help at all. If I wanna feel sorry for myself, then I'll throw myself a pity party, like listen to Anti-Hero on loop whilst eating ice cream then I'll say, okay, you got that out of your system - time to get back to work, do something awesome that will make you feel great about yourself. It's not like I ignore my feelings but I think that I know myself best (obviously) and so the best person to work through those feelings is myself. I don't go for therapy as (well I'm gonna be blunt here), I don't think I can find a therapist out there intelligent enough to deal with me and I fear they will just say, "so how do you feel about this" and I'll be the one who eventually comes up with all the right answers. If that's the process, then I may as well do it myself.

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    15. Yeah there's a thin line between comforting someone and being supportive, and just plain pitying them constantly and not helping. I have two friends who go to therapy regularly and complain about being stuck in working class jobs, but they refuse to make a single change to their lives. Which makes me wonder, what is the therapist even saying to them? But if you can handle your own feelings and problems by yourself, then that's great. I know some people who really don't want to see the therapist over privacy issues, but it's entirely optional and most people don't go to therapy and can handle their issues just fine. In fact sometimes the therapist tells me "your life seems fine right now and you can figure out the issue without my help, maybe we should stop sessions for a while so you can go out and live rather than just reliving painful memories over and over."

      Also, I realize that I'm not usually sensitive about teachers/professors giving me "the hairdryer" type of scolding treatment. It's just because I recently left an abusive situation where my PhD advisor was investigated that I'm just at a weak point in my life where I can't take hard hits. I just didn't realize that because the whole university was acting like the "sayang sayang brigade" because they knew I'm vulnerable right now and would probably crack under pressure. I had a couple flashbacks today where in undergrad I walked up to the prof to say I didn't like the assignment and wish it was harder. But now I get panic attacks if the fencing instructor expects me to perform any better than "noob."

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    16. Hi Amanda, allow me to contrast two incidents when I got very different responses, ie. the difference between the right way to respond and the wrong way to respond. First, let's start with the wrong way - I once spoke to my eldest sister about a work problem and of course, she was no help and had no idea what to suggest. But to be fair, I was barking up the wrong tree by going to the wrong person to talk about the problem. She was never going to be know what to suggest I should do as she was so unfamiliar with the kind of work I do. So I was left frustrated when she said all the right things and I was thinking, what the heck am I doing speaking to my sister about this? And now, let me contrast this to a conversation I had with my friend Leo from gymnastics - now he is an engineer and he knows nothing about my world in business/banking. Yet all he did was ask me a list of leading questions like, "so what would you like to happen ideally for this to be resolved? How can this be achieved? What do you need to do in order to achieve that? Do you need help and whom can you approach for that kind of help?" Leo knew nothing about my situation, yet he was able to steer me towards the right answers which I already knew. Then when I saw him again, each time he would ask me, "have you made any progress? You know exactly what needs to be done, so how far down your to-do list have you gone?" Leo wasn't exactly sayanging me for the sake of being nice, he was guiding me without knowing anything about my work or industry. Having gone through that process with Leo, I realized, the best person to help me is myself and I have to love myself enough to want to help myself. As for what you said about reliving painful memories, we all have our cross to bear, we all have painful memories about our childhood but sometimes we just need to do whatever is necessary in order to put them away for good. I have not spoken to my parents since January this year and am prepared to never ever speak to them ever again - even if they die without me speaking to them again, that's perfectly fine by me. Are you willing to do something as drastic as that to say, "this is me taking control of the situation"?

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    17. Ironically, I had such a good experience talking to Leo about my work problems that I once actually approached him for his help with a technical work issue - Leo is Italian and I thought he might have some good ideas or connections. He even went to his father in Italy for help and the suggestions I got from him were totally rubbish, sorry. His father is an engineer too. He's a super nice guy but that's what happens when you ask an engineer for help with a problem relating to investment banking - it'll be like you asking me for help with your coding. I felt bad as I realized oh shit I barked up the wrong tree asking him for help just because a) he's nice to talk to and b) I have clients interested in investing in Italian projects but putting those two factors were not enough to create a situation whereby he could help me with my work. Sometimes, people like Leo have great social skills and can guide me to find my own solutions, but they cannot help me find the solutions that I need. At the end of the day, I have to do all the hard work and no one else can do that but me. That's just the way it is.

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    18. It's not that I wanna be unsupportive or harsh Amanda, but there's no point in saying, "I'm at a weak point in my life when I can't take hard hits." Life is going to throw hard hits at you randomly whether you're ready or not, life is going to blindside you and throw you to the ground randomly whether you're feeling weak or strong. You don't have the luxury of telling 'life' whether or not you're ready for the hard hits coming your way. The only option is to admit that this attitude is totally unhelpful and the only way to deal with life is to resolve to be a lot tougher and ready for the next hard hit coming your way. I've had my share of hard hits this year and let me tell you for a fact that if I had allowed myself to crumble and have mental health issues, that would be just wallowing in self-pity but that would not help me resolve any of the problems. Instead I went to seek help from people I trusted to get me out of the bad place I was in order to put things right, I did a lot of things that only I could do to clean up the mess I was in. Life didn't give a damn whether or not I was ready for those hard hits in 2023, it just happened whether I liked it or not and reacting with calmness and a readiness to deal with crisis wasn't a choice really as breaking down and simply giving in to the problems would have resolved nothing, absolutely nothing. The more hard hits come your way, the tougher you must be. No amount of sympathy from others is going to solve your problems, only you can solve them. So I say this with all the love in my heart Amanda, your attitude is totally wrong and needs to change. The sooner you acknowledge that, the better.

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    19. Y'know oddly enough my brother said the same thing about the "hard hits" and being weak. I also told my math professor a couple days ago that I was actually pretending to suck in his math class because I was scared the minute I got somewhat good he'd start yelling at me. And he said that he hoped I'd invest more time into getting better despite not having a math degree and lacking some foundational skills that other math degree holders have, but he liked a theorem I cobbled together for my thesis. But I've been living in fear for the past three years just trying to deal with my shitty advisor by pretending to suck so he doesn't overwork me and expect too much in too little time while giving too little resources instead of actively trying to escape. I only did that after the investigation started. Where did the girl who walked up to the professor at age 18 to complain the assignment wasn't hard enough go? At the time I got told "I can't change the entire syllabus for one student whose had 5 years of project experience before starting university, but you can come to my office later and I'll give you some extra textbooks" yeah so I guess the issue is my advisor didn't give me enough resources, he refused to pay for projects at one point and I had to complain to the school about it so they'd reimburse my receipts. I wish the panic attack wasn't as bad as it was last week. And I don't know when I can come back without having them again, but I just hope I can say "bring it on old man! I'll kick your ass in the ring!" Sooner rather than never if I get another hairdryer treatment.

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    20. By the way, the way you are using your friend Leo to help you figure out your own problems is what good therapy is supposed to be about. I think many people misunderstand that therapy is not the therapist telling you what to do, but them helping you figure out what to do. Some people can't really find a friend to listen to their problems if it is too shameful or hard to describe, so they use the therapist who's trained for these situations. But some people do badly misunderstand the role of the therapist and think someone else has to solve their problems. But my two friends who misuse their therapist and get nowhere, they also misuse their friends for the same purpose and get nowhere. They're not proactive in their lives like you are Alex. I am pretty baffled that I just silently gave up on doing well the past 3 years because I was deprived of so many resources and constantly lied to. It was so bad the university had to intervene, and people around me say "just forget about it and move one", but then I go to fencing, get yelled at, and have a panic attack and it seems harder than people think. I can't avoid fencing forever, because I love it. Maybe for a start I'll wait for the lead instructor to get sick or busy so he'll skip class and it'll only be the 2nd instructor who is a clear member of the sayang sayang brigade. But eventually, I'll go on days the lead instructor is teaching and kick his ass. Yeah I have to get over this somehow... even if it's hard... running doesn't solve the problem... I know your words can sound harsh, but they're better than telling me to run and hide or do nothing.

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    21. @Amanda, listen to LIFT. He helped me solve my problem pretty much the same way. Using tough love.

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    22. Hi Choaniki - thanks for the vote of confidence.

      Hi Amanda, I read what you wrote and sorry, here comes some tough love again. Whilst you're undoubtedly an incredibly intelligent person, there's this aspect of your behaviour which I find childish and I chalk it up to poor social skills. Some people in the past have wronged you, I get it. I understand, it is however what you do about it that matters. In primary school, I remember there was this girl in my class who would run to the teacher and scream, "teacher teacher he/she/they did this to me!!" Basically, she was expecting the teacher to investigate and punish the guilty party for having wronged her or done something bad to her. It kinda worked in that context as a) the teachers were there to maintain some kind of order in the classroom so that the students could learn, thus they were used to stepping in to resolve conflicts and b) I get the feeling the teachers enjoyed playing judge, jury and executioner in adjudicating such cases of minor disputes amongst the students. It gave those teachers a power trip to have that much control and influence over the behaviour of the students in the school. However, as adults in the working world, there really isn't the figure of that kind of primary school teacher to run to any more who can help you address such matters when someone has wronged you. Don't get me wrong, we still live in a society with rules. So if you have someone treat you badly at work, there's usually a HR department or a director responsible for your welfare. If you receive bad service at a restaurant or a sports center, as a paying customer, you always have the right to complain. But then I need you to direct your complaints to the right people, so for example, the fencing instructor, as a paying customer, you have every right to complain about bad service - there's no point in telling me because I'm not in the same city as you. If I was, I would accompany you to the sports centre and help you make a complaint in person but you're an adult and I expect you to take charge of that situation rather than have a panic attack and go into 'damsel in distress' mode. There is no alternative, the only way you can feel better about the situation is by showing to yourself that you can protect yourself and manage any hard hits that may come your way on a rainy Tuesday afternoon.

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    23. As for why I am proactive in taking charge of the solution and solving my own problems, let me be honest: it's because I came from a poor family. When you're that poor, you learn to be self-reliant. Let me give you a simple case study. I have this friend who was from a rich family, let's call her Lynda. We both had one challenge: learn Spanish. She tried, she struggled and said she was going to pay for private tuition and she had a Spanish tutor from Spain trying to bludgeon the language into her head with 1-on-1 lessons every week but she made little progress because her attitude was like, "I paid you, now you make me learn!" She didn't realize that she had to make some effort to get the language into her head, her money wasn't going to buy her the ability to speak Spanish, instead it bought her a good teacher but she still needed to make some effort to master the language. My approach was different - I just taught myself everything I needed to know, I still make mistakes but I am not afraid to use my rough and ready, imperfect Spanish despite the fact that I might make some grammatical errors at times as I am basically using French grammar for Spanish and that doesn't always work. Recently I said to my friend, puedo las ver (I can see those but in my French grammar, I can those see) and he said to me it should be either las puedo ver or puedo verlas (those I can see or I can see those) . Yeah so I got the word order wrong but I wasn't going to let a little grammatical error like that stop me from communicating in Spanish. Such is the mindset of a poor person whereas someone like Lynda would make that mistake then run to her teacher and blame the teacher, "I pay you so much money, why am I still making such mistakes in grammar? Why didn't you teach me properly? Fix this or I will go to another teacher!" I take responsibility for my problems whereas rich Lynda uses her money to pay others to take responsibility on behalf of her. By this token, I do still have a working class mindset but in this case, it works in my benefit as this is a positive trait.

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    24. Oh wow I do have a "rich Lynda" mindset sometimes, thinking if I just pay for the most expensive thing, the problem will take care of itself. But there's many things money can't buy. I guess I waited for the university to step in before doing anything about my advisor. Okay I made a complaint, fencing instructor won't be a bitch again, I just need to go to class and hope it doesn't happen again and not get panic attacks. Or use my passive aggressiveness to get him to back off without looking bad. The thing is I can manipulate people, I did during the investigation and it worked in my favor. I just don't use it often enough or want to, because I act like rich Lynda thinking the system will protect me. Also growing up I had a best friend(still my best friend) who did all the protecting. But she did tell me to stop tattling to the teacher every time I had a problem with someone and try to defend myself. Which probably explains why I have the most problems when the problem is the teacher, who else do I tattle to?

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    25. @LIFT, in French parlez vous français and vous parlez français both work so I can see why you would mix it up for Spanish (not that I know Spanish grammar). But I do know Spanish has an additional pronoun I.e. la, lo, los, las while French has only la, le, las. But you already know all that.

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    26. @Amanda, There's only so much that rich Lynda's money can do for her, at some stage she has got to put in some effort for the things that she wants. She is used to paying for good service, say if you fly business class vs economy class, of course you're going to be treated like a VIP by the cabin crew in business class. If you get treated well in economy class, LOL that comes as a surprise. So yes Lynda's money can get her quite a lot of nice things in life, but there are other things such as good relationships with her friends, colleagues, family etc as well as ability to speak Spanish that she has to put in a lot of effort if she wants the desired result. Hence she can pay for Spanish lessons from a great teacher but if she puts in zero or little effort, she still can't speak it well.

      @Choaniki in most languages there is some flexibility when it comes to sentence structure and in Mandarin for example, there's a lot more flexibility than English. Translate the sentence, you do want to drink coffee? I can think of at least four different combinations of words for that which would still communicate the same offer of coffee, but then it would range from "that's how a native speaker would say it" down to "yeah I still understand what you're trying to say but that's unusual to phrase it like that." I guess with my Mexican friend, he's trying to get my Spanish to sound more authentic as I'm just so used to simply arranging Spanish words according to French grammar.

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    27. Hmm come to think I am very used to getting good service, especially when I'm super polite to the service worker. But that's assuming there's some kinda tipping system. Even at my wealthy private school, I once got a teacher fired for saying sexist things to me. I guess I stuck up for myself then, but mostly I got my dad to complain to the school. Fuck me, I don't like being aggressive because it looks rude, I really hate people who throw tantrums and I won't back-tantrum, but I suppose I can manage being passive aggressive because at least that's polite.

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    28. @LIFT, well I never considered it that way. About flexibility of languages. And from watching language simp videos I would say Chinese is really a very easy language, grammar wise. There is no past tense and lots of conjugation work. Compared to French and Spanish grammar, there is no challenge.

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    29. Well guys, I'm off to Aarhus Denmark tomorrow, I'll catch y'all when I'm back.

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    30. Hey Alex, I hope your trip to Denmark is going great. What are you doing there? Can you speak some Danish?

      Well, I came back to class after missing 2 lessons following the anxiety attack. When I say anxiety attack I don't just mean I felt sad, like I had a massive headache and my appetite disappeared for a week. Never had this before. I did complain to the fencing instructor in private at the beginning of one of the classes I missed. Now his response to my complaint in private was kinda salty, but again he said it in a sad tone. Well first class I come back, my friends tell me the fencing instructor is magically nicer to everyone and implemented all the changes I asked for to his behavior. Fucking hell, this reminds me of my dad. He will never apologize verbally to anything, but a few days later he'll buy a present and come back with completely changed behavior, that's his way of groveling. I knew the fencing instructor scolding me was personal, since he was supposed to be refereeing a match with two other students instead of watching me put on my equipment. One of my friends said "wow you must be special if he changed for You." Ugh, this is just how it is... I knew a physics professor in undergrad who was very nice to me in class until the midterm exam came back and I got the highest in the batch. He just would criticize every small mistake after that, even though we became friends and I'd go to his office every 1-2 weeks to borrow a book and talk physics for 2-4 hours. I only earned his respect when I managed to kick his ass at math after 3-4 years of intense training. Well, my resolution to all this is just not to be friends with the fencing instructor. I don't care if he likes to treat me special and push me harder than the other fencers, he will not get any of my attention or friendship, because I know he wants that since he makes up dumb things to say to me to get attention. If someone wants my friendship, they gotta be fucking nice and not a rude bitch. I only tolerated the physics professor in undergrad because my dad just died and I was missing him, and the physics prof was very similar. But eventually I had to tell him I don't like it when he criticizes me all the time, and we're not friends anymore, just scientific colleagues. I recently reconnected with him over email following the investigation of my advisor, and I'm going back to Singapore to see him, but only because he's been nice lately. Though to him, me being CTO and a fully fledged scientific researcher means he has nothing left to criticize.

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    31. Hi Amanda, this was a last minute trip as my plans to travel in August were cancelled (long story) so I hadn't gone away in August, the last time I travelled was July and I get awfully restless when I don't go on holiday after a month. So we looked on Skyscanner and it was either Aarhus (Denmark) or Limoges (France) and as I've done France like a zillion times, we decided to go to Denmark instead given that we've really only visited the capital region around Copenhagen. We went to two cities: Aalborg 4th largest city in Denmark and Aarhus 2nd largest city in Denmark. So with city breaks you get a mix of culture, history, sports/outdoor activities, nature and relaxation. Different cities have different activities to offer, but the joy of going to cities is that you get to mix and match all of that, so it's like creating a really vibrant itinerary. So we visited the Botanic Gardens there for example, the Den Gamle By open air Danish history museum, we went kayaking in the sea, we visited an amazing roof garden and there's just so much in these cities to explore and discover. Of course, you need to have an open mind and say, "I'm interested in embracing all things Danish." And yes of course I speak some Danish - given that I already speak Dutch and German, it's from the same family group and I can read Danish surprisingly well. But when they speak, I struggle to understand as they leave out a lot, it's the unwritten rule of silent letters in Danish which make it really hard for foreigners to understand Danish. It is not phonetical - so take the response for thank you, ie. you're welcome in English, it is written as 'det var sa lidt' but it is pronounced as 'doh-sa-lid' and I'm like wait wait wait, the T is gone and you totally ommited the var in there. And I was told, yeah nobody actually pronounces everything that is written down, it's a very informal language.

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    32. As for your fencing instructor, allow me to share with you a lesson I picked up in my army days. I learnt to put people into two categories: people who matter to me (so you decide whom to include in that inner circle: dear friends, people you like and respect, people you trust etc) and those who don't (ie. those who don't make it into the inner circle get banished to the outer circle by default). I was faced with so many assholes in the army that I had to banish most of them to the outer circle, so nothing they do or say matter to me, they cannot upset me. So if someone from the outer circle is rude to me, I just shrug my shoulders and think, what kind of upbringing did you have to result in this kind of behaviour? But if someone from my inner circle actually said something that upset me, say if that came in the form of criticism, then I would allow that to upset me as it really does matter that someone in my inner circle would do that (and perhaps they have good reason to do so). But what I see here is someone who is clearly from your outer circle (a sports instructor you barely know) being given the privileges of someone in your inner circle? That's a serious error on your part Amanda. You need to know who belongs to which circle and you need to be in control of this process. Just this year, I pushed my parents and even my eldest sister to my outer circle and I'm that close to pushing my other sister to that outer circle. We do that to protect ourselves and you need to learn the art of keeping those circles in check in your head. That's how you protect yourself.

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    33. @LIFT, this is a very good way of segregating your relationships to protect your mental health. I need to push my toxic relationships (dad included) to my outer circle so that nothing he says would upset me more than that of some random uncle on the street.

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    34. Oh wow that sounds great you visited another city in Denmark instead of going to France again(since I know you lived there for a bit and speak fluent French). Kayaking in the sea sounds awesome! Especially given the great weather right now, not too hot or cold. I usually do lake kayaking, but haven't tried the ocean because usually the currents are stronger. Yeah Danish sounds nothing like German or Dutch when I hear it on tv, not phonetic at all. But glad you can at least manage reading signs in danish even if hearing it verbally is a little difficult.

      The thing is, I'm not usually close to professors or teachers or instructors. I barely knew my gymnastics coaches when I still did gymnastics, and in high school none of the teachers liked me(especially the science and math ones). But with that physics professor, my dad died in undergrad and he subconsciously reminded me of my dad so we got really close. The thing that made me and Dad close was doing engineering together and him investing lots of time and money into my education. The physics professor had kids but none of them wanted to do physics(while I did). And now I find out from my new friends the fencing instructor tried to get his daughter to do fencing but she refused. It sorta makes me think of how you say you don't want kids because what if you get stuck with a dumb one that you don't get along with? But if you got a kid who is of similar intelligence and loves gymnastics would you be happy? With men like my father, the physics prof, and the fencing instructor, I think they all secretly have autism that they just really want a kid to share their passion with and invest time into. My dad didn't pay much attention to my siblings compared to me because they didn't have the same passion. I suppose I get it to a certain extent, feeling lonely because you can't share this obsessive hobby with other people who don't have an obsessive hobby, since I've had an obsessive hobby since I was 8. But playing favorites in an educational setting is probably a line people shouldn't cross. Or even playing favorites with your own kids.

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    35. Allow me to use an example that I encountered in real life recently to illustrate our emotional response to things happening in our outer vs our inner circle. This guy I know through work recently told me that he had to cancel a meeting as he had to rush down to his son's university - I asked, is your son okay? And he confessed, my son is being kicked off his course, my wife and I are rushing down there right now to try to reason with the staff to plead for a second chance. I didn't ask for more details, I did know which university it was an let's put it this way, we have a league table of all 130 UK universities and this university is ranked around 90 to 110 ish, it is not a good university. It's a dumping ground for the kids who flunked everything at their A levels. My initial reaction was this thought: how the hell do you flunk out of a course at this university? What happened - did he not even show up for the exams as he overslept? Was it not related to his academic performance at all, did he do something illegal like got caught on campus dealing drugs or something equally illegal? My friend is an older, successful businessman doing so well in the world of finance, how the heck did he end up with such a stupid loser for a son?! But I said nothing, told him we can reschedule whenever he is available and left it at that. My reaction was harsh judgment mixed with mild curiousity. Now imagine if my nephew flunked out of his university course - I think my reaction would be a lot stronger and I would be a lot more concerned. I would certainly be a lot more motivated to try to help resolve the situation rather than just stand back and say, "ha ha, what a total loser, who flunks out of a course at Dumping Ground University? I thought that gave you a degree for simply knowing how to spell your name." My nephew is in my inner circle, I do care about him and what happens to his education, his future and his prospects - contrast that to my friend whose son flunked out of Dumping Ground University, I really just stood back and reacted as if I was watching a Youtube/Instagram video of a fat person falling off a chair. Thus you have to learn to say, that person behaved badly, was rude, but that person is in my outer circle so I really don't care - leave it at that and walk away from it, don't let it bother you as you're not emotionally invested in them.

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  3. @LIFT, i proactively reached out to you to ask about your injury after falling off your bicycle. So you already know how I would respond.

    As for you parents. I and facepalming so hard at their reaction. It is a given fact by now that they are both authistic idiots. In fact I am surprised that you would tell them about your fall. I have injured myself and gone under the knife twice but refused to tell my dad anything. Main for 2 reasons:
    1) He would probably call me stupid or some other hurtful comments.
    2) I do not need him to care for me since I have been raising myself since the age of 19.

    As for social skills, I am very careful now when interacting with rich, influential people. Just yesterday I attended a book launch of a young lady who is an entrepreneur and also working in a family office. She is a Tsinghua graduate and I am curious of her origins so I asked her if she was willing to share about her country of origin. Fortunately, she didn't find my question offensive (as some woke people might).

    I am just fortunate that she studied and grew up a vast proportion of the time in Singapore (she studied at Nanyang Girls before going overseas for her undergrad). The lack of social skills in a vast proportion of the older people in Singapore my intrusiveness to be not so offensive.

    In fact I have been closely following the antics of Tan Kin Lian and it is a very good case study of what not to say and do (everything opposite to what he is doing in fact).

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    1. No Choaniki, you read the article incorrectly. I have NOT spoken to my parents since the 23rd January 2023. I have NOT spoken to them recently and I have NOT told them about the fall from the bicycle. I do NOT intend to speak to them again in the near future and I do NOT know when I might speak to them again. What I did write was a postulation of how they would react based on what I know of their behaviour. The conversations involving the unripe tomatoes and the people in China speaking Mandarin happened some years ago, I used those as examples of their poor conversational skills. So actually, reading comprehension is an area that you could improve on. I did go back and re-read the article and I am certain that I had made it clear that I had the conditional, "if I told my parents, then they would" - that's the same as saying, "if I had a billion dollars, then I would buy a castle." Yeah I can dream about being the lord of my own castle but unfortunately, I don't have that kind of money to go shopping for castles but I can dream using the conditional tense when talking about what I would do if I had that kind of money. Go back and read the article, it is pretty clear that I have not spoken to my parents recently and this is but a contemplation of how they would have reacted (and my justification of why I no longer speak to them).

      And to make it extra clear: I've not spoken to my parents since the 23rd January 2023. It has been more than 8 months since I've spoken to them. I have no intention to speak to them again. Hence that's why I was telling Amanda about this peaceful truce that I have enforced by refusing to speak to them. If I don't speak to them again before they die, that'll be fine by me as it means avoiding any kind of conflict with them and that's one way to maintain the peace.

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    2. Clearly, Amanda doesn't have the same problem when it comes to reading comprehension.

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    3. @LIFT, as I mentioned, I meant no offense and apologize if I caused you distress.

      I had skimmed thru the article and did not really catch the details of the initial part. I subconsciously linked the 2nd part when you mentioned speaking to your dad about the clients from China to the first part which is a hypothetical.

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    4. Apology accepted - you see, we both don't get along with our parents but the difference is that you still talk to your father (and inevitably argue with him each time you do talk) whilst I have not had any arguments with my parents since the 23rd January 2023 because that was the last time I spoke to my parents. Since I've gone the last 7 months without speaking to them, I will gladly go the next 7 months without speaking to them as I am not missing anything from my life by ignoring them and quite frankly, I have everything to gain and nothing to lose by cutting them off like that - I then look at how you argue your father time and time again and I just roll my eyes and think, that's why I don't speak to my parents anymore as it is better to maintain a peaceful truce via isolation.

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    5. Let me give you a case study to illustrate my point: my parents used to fight so much with their in-laws (ie. my sister's husband's parents). They did that because there was this automatic assumption of, oh our children got married, my daughter married your son so we must talk to each other and be social. But all they ever did was fight and argue non-stop with each other, they had nothing in common and really hated each other so much. Then my sister and her husband one day just say, enough is enough, you're driving each other crazy with this fight and it ends today - no more contact. You will NOT talk to each other for the next month and that's a truce that we will extend if it works. That truce worked for one month, then it became six months, a year - then eventually they just accepted that they will not talk to each other ever again and that's a far better alternative than having these really nasty arguments all the time. This is what we call a truce and I'm merely cutting & pasting that same solution.

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    6. @LIFT, I have been keeping radio silence with my dad since May after he called me stupid and a host of other unnecessary comments. I will ignore him since there is nothing I want from him and to preserve my mental health.

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    7. Btw Alex I find it funny that your parents are so terrible with other people that even your sister's husband's parents can't stand them. Its like if most people had the choice not to be around them, they would GTFO.

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    8. @Choaniki, I don't want to tell you what to do in the case of your father, let's just say I believe in leading by example and pursuing this route I call 'peaceful truce' that has worked.

      @Amanda, mind you, the in-laws (ie. my sister's husband's parents) are just as dumb when it comes to social skills and they pick fights with my parents because they just want to prove, 'we are better grandparents than you'. So little things like how much water my nephew was given to drink had been an issue of contention - whereas I'm like, the kid is old enough to go to the kitchen to get water if he is thirsty, case closed. You four old people are making a fool of yourselves by fighting over this. Haven't you got anything better to do?

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    9. These sound like the pettiest grandparents ever haha, as if the other side is gonna concede victory at any time. Are your brother in law's parents also working class? Is that what your sister and brother in law bonded over?

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    10. My brother in law's parents are extremely working class and uneducated, just like my parents but that doesn't mean that they'll get along automatically just because they share that in common. As for the shit they fought over, it's so stupid. There are important issues like my nephew's education - nope, they're not educated enough to understand any of the stuff my nephew studied. So they fight over silly things like food and drink or basic routines like having an afternoon nap; basically, both sides just fucking hate the other side and will go out of their way to find fault with each other, like nothing they can do will ever be okay with the other side. This is not about my nephew, it's about a bitter feud that was created as both parties just don't get along and hate each other. Of course, nothing can be resolved, that's why my sister and my bro-in-law had to step in like primary school teachers and say, "I don't care who said what or who started it, from now on, there will be a truce and no more fighting!"

      As for my sister and my brother-in-law, the three of us share one thing in common: we all came from poverty but managed to attain social mobility. My brother in law studied engineering at university then successfully did a career switch from chemical engineering to finance, he is smart, successful and earns a ton of money. I have respect for that as I am like him, we both came from painfully poor families and got zero help from our parents. My sister also has that drive and ambition, though admittedly, she hasn't been as successful as her husband or myself, but nonetheless, we all have this understanding about what it is like to escape poverty through hard work and making the right decisions in life. Remember, just because two (or more) people are working class doesn't mean they will bond even if they share something in common: ref how my very working class parents hate their very working class in-laws. Fun fact Amanda: working class people can really hate other working class people. In this case, it's got nothing to do with class status or identity.

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    11. @LIFT, I have been going around the past week engaging in working class people as part of Ng Kok Song's presidential campaign (long story).

      What I have discovered is that these working class elderly people take every single slight as a personal attack. E.g. you could hand them a flyer and they would threaten to call the police on you. Or you could respectfully tell them to not walk past an area because a live media interview was taking place. But you get the picture.

      I think these folks are so voiceless and powerless that they felt ignored by society in general. Which is why they are constantly lashing out to maintain a sense of control in their everyday interaction. And I don't blame them.

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    12. Yes I know exactly what you're talking about - they are so voiceless and powerless that they have to assert themselves at every opportunity. Years ago, I got invited to take part in a committee formed by local government to be a part of a panel - they wanted to get people from diverse backgrounds and since I am both gay and Chinese, I ticked two boxes. The panel's role was to be like a jury - the unhappy residents (ie. working class elderly) would come to the government with complaints and demands, which are usually ridiculous. Then the panel will have to decide if the resident has a valid complaint or demand, if the relevant local government needs to investigate or take it further. It was an unelected position (I was appointed, not democratically elected) but I remember being very scathing when someone was unreasonable and the local councillors who were dependent on being democratically elected were so much more patient than me even with these elderly folks as they can vote. That panel was put in place as 'here's the voice of reason - a panel of upstanding citizens reflecting our local society' to protect the government from these idiots.

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    13. And these are working-class Ang mo or Chinese elderly people?

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    14. These were a mix of working class white, black and South Asian (which I mean Indian, Bangladeshi and Pakistani) people. In London, Chinese people number just 1.7% but that number is misleading as a lot of the Chinese community are very young as they are either here as students pursuing further education or they have come here to work as skilled migrants. Thus the chances of finding an elderly retired Chinese person in London is very, very low. If you have a 1.7 in 100 chance to have a Chinese neighbour in London, then your chances of having an elderly neighbour who happens to be Chinese as well is probably way under 0.5 in 100. I think you forget what a tiny minority the Chinese are in the UK and thus if I am put in a scenario where I am having to deal with unhappy working class elderly people making complaints about the local government, the statistical probability of encountering a Chinese person in that cohort is so so low, not because elderly Chinese don't complain, but there are just so few Chinese people living here in the UK. The national figure of Chinese people is even lower as a proportion at just 0.7% - that's because Chinese people are more recent immigrants, they come in the form of either university students or skilled migrants and thus naturally pick big cities like London and not the rural countryside. The bottom line is, there are very, very few Chinese people in the UK despite what you may have seen on your previous visits.

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    15. And for the record, I didn't encounter a single Chinese person when I was on that panel.

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    16. But the bottom line is that this trait of working class people trying to assert themselves through complaining about the slightest thing is associated with them having a total lack of power and that's a direct consequence of their poverty. They have crap working class jobs where they are at the bottom of the food chain and are ordered around by their bosses. They have no money, so they cannot go to expensive restaurants or boutiques and be treated like VIP when they are big spenders. Thus this leads to a feeling of being disenfranchised and powerless even in their everyday lives - now that's got nothing to do with culture and everything to do with class identity and poverty. Poor people around the world actually have a lot more in common than you may think, because they share the same problems and challengers that ultimately stem from having so little money.

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    17. Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions that this working class mindset transcends culture and nationality.

      I have worked with them in my previous occupation as well as during my volunteer work. There is no easy way to get thru to them. I suspect they are a lost cause.

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    18. If you wanted to analyse this with more scientific rigour, you need to set up a similar experiment in Singapore and London where ordinary citizens can make complaints and/or demands of the local government but there will be an independent jury to decide if those complaints/demands are reasonable. We can then monitor and compare the behaviour of the two groups: British working class vs Singaporean working class. In this case, I did not deal with Asian working class people but mostly white working class people (and some black ones) because statistically speaking, Asian people make up a tiny minority in the UK. For any kind of comparison to have any scientific validity, you need to replicate the experiment with equal number of subjects in both groups (white vs Chinese or East Asian). The conclusion is obvious in any case, ie. the working class mindset transcends culture and nationality because such human behaviour is influenced by poverty rather than culture.

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    19. Also for @Amanda, it is wrong to assume that all working class people can be shoved into the same box, "you're working class, he's working class, you have so much in common, you're going to bond and become best friends, right?" I would divide working class people into two categories: those who are born poor and accept that they are going to be poor all their lives and then die poor and those who reject that and strive for social mobility (whether they succeed or not is another matter but that's another debate). I am of the latter category and I would struggle to get along with someone who is working class and just accepts a lifetime of poverty as an inevitable outcome. My sister and my brother-in-law get along well because they both believe in striving for social mobility, to create a better future for their son; rather than just be dirt poor all their lives. But to assume that two working class people will bond over class identity is to make an assumption that two Americans will bond because they come from the same country, what if one is a Trump-voting Republic and the other is a liberal Democrat who wants to see Trump rot in jail forever?

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    20. @LIFT these kinds of cross-sectional study are difficult to conduct simply because there are too many confounding variables. It would be difficult to weigh what complaints are value and what are unreasonable as well. There are also many societal expectations that could differ between countries (that have nothing to do with class).

      It.would be simpler to conduct this study in a metropolitan city like Singapore and compare if working-class elderly Caucasians and Asian are equally demanding. But since most of the Caucasians are migrants they wouldn't be poor if they are able to obtain a permit to live in SG.

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    21. And this is why I stay the hell away from politics - as a private citizen, I only have to take care of myself and not care about trying to please complete strangers like that.

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    22. https://youtu.be/WIAatc0TVa8?si=qZRDc5uXYKnftJmT

      Someone shared with me this very insightful YouTube video. Around 33 mins Bo Seo explained the psychology behind why some people are so disagreeable.

      1) They want to be heard. They want to have their perspective shared so they could connect to the listener.

      2) They want to dominate and appear superior over their opponent.

      So the voiceless and powerless people (poor working-class) are very abrasive for these reasons.

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