Saturday, 10 June 2023

Deceit, Greek, DNA, liars and reality TV

Hi there, today I would like to share with you a silly story from many years ago, during my NS days in Singapore. I was reminded of this story by a recent episode from Nora from Queens when Edmund Lin does a DNA test and finds out that he has Icelandic ancestry, then they go to Iceland. Then there's also a funny story from one of my favourite Youtubers Abroad in Japan when Chris Broad confesses to the time he was caught lying to the famous actor Ken Watanabe whom he was interviewing. So let's call this guy Henry (not his real name) and I have removed any details that might identify him as this is not a 'name & shame' piece - I just wanted to share the story without making it personal. First a little bit about the two stories that inspired this piece: in the American comedy sitcom Nora from Queens, Edmund Lin (Chinese American as the name suggests) did a DNA test which revealed that he is part Icelandic despite not having any real links to the country or even looking mixed Eurasian. He then takes Nora to Iceland where he dyes his hair blonde and puts on blue contact lenses to embrace his newly discovered Icelandic roots, only to find out why the DNA test was wrong (it is actually hilarious though quite implausible - I won't share the punchline here as I want to encourage you to watch that episode shot in Iceland). In Chris Broad's video, when he was asked by Ken Watanabe how long he had been living in Japan, he lied and said 5 years instead of confessing to have lived in Japan for over 10 years. He was afraid that Japanese people might expect him to have attained native standard Japanese after living there for that long and admittedly, his Japanese is rather good but far from native standard fluent.  Nonetheless, Ken Watanabe found out the truth a day later and Chris was even more embarrassed about having lied about it to Watanabe, far more embarrassed than he was about the standard of his Japanese. Today I'm going to talk about Henry's lie from the period 1996 to 1997. 
Henry is a year younger than me and I met him through a mutual friend - he is gay and came from a fairly wealthy family. He was cultured and loved classical music, but particularly medieval music. I'm sure you're painting a picture in your head right now of a somewhat effeminate gay who isn't the kind of guy who would thrive in NS, seeking solace in a rather niche form of medieval music and you'll be right. So Henry dreamt about finding a boyfriend who was tall, strong, macho and would be his prince in shining armour but still equally intellectual and cultured. Oh and on top of that, Henry was also quite overweight at that time (he did lose a lot of the weight later on in his life, but that is another story for another day) but for the purpose of this story, he was quite fat. I could have certainly sensed that Henry lacked self-confidence as a gay man then, but he did this thing: he lied about his ancestry. He claimed he was a quarter Greek, that was a lie of course. Henry didn't look Eurasian at all, no, he looked very typically Chinese but he claimed that his mother was Eurasian, Chinese + Greek mix, making her half Greek and him quarter Greek. This was back in the 1990s, we couldn't simply Google his parents on the internet and verify if his claims were true - so it was just a question of whether or not he could successfully convince us that he had Greek blood. For him, it was like a mind game, especially with people like me who were cynical but had no way to disprove what he was claiming. To carry it off convincingly, Henry did have a really good knowledge of Greek culture and history, he had travelled to Greece a few times as a teenager (I told you he was quite rich) and even knew some words in Greek. I thought, yeah just because you love all things Greek and you wish you were Greek, doesn't make you Greek: you wish you were Greek, as that might make you more interesting than you actually are but you're not actually Greek or even a quarter Greek. However, despite the fact that I had challenged him on a few occasions, he very adamantly insisted that he had some Greek blood and that was something I would never understand as I was just Asian like everyone else in Singapore. The irony was that I did do a DNA test years later only to find out that I am genuinely mixed, unlike Henry, however, DNA tests like that were not commercially available back then.

So how was Henry's lie exposed? Well he actually did something interesting that put him in the public eye, at least in Singapore then. I'm not going to name the film as it was pretty forgettable but back in the 1990s, it was a pretty big deal to actually have a film that was entirely Singaporean - written by a local, shot in Singapore with a local cast and seen in local cinemas by Singaporeans who were quite used to watching movies from Hollywood, Bollywood, Hong Kong, just anywhere but Singapore. At least Jack Neo had some success with his Mandarin/Hokkien films back in that period but then, he was effectively making a Chinese movie whilst these were movies that were in English/Singlish. On main feature of the film was to capture the ethnic and cultural diversity of Singapore - so the main characters were Chinese, Malay, Indian and Eurasian. Henry wasn't cast as the Eurasian guy, no he was cast as the Chinese guy in that film whilst they got a real Eurasian guy to play the Eurasian part. This Eurasian guy was the real deal, he looked mixed - complete with a much larger nose and European eyes (unlike Henry, who had a much flatter Chinese nose and very Chinese eyes). He had a surname that was Syrian in origin and back in the 1990s, he achieved quite a lot of fame in Singapore as an actor and singer. Henry was remarkably lucky to have been working alongside someone who was quite a lot more established and successful but of course, that's when Henry's friends were like, come on Henry - now there's a real Eurasian guy who is your co-star in this film and you're playing the typical Singaporean Chinese guy in this film. If your Eurasian co-star claimed to be half Greek, we wouldn't question that at all so why don't you just accept that you had been telling a crazy lie all this time just to pretend to be more interesting? After all, you have achieved the one thing you had wanted all this time: you wanted to be interesting and for people to notice you, now you are recognized when you walk down Orchard Road by random strangers. You are interesting now, you are in the public eye, people have noticed you, you now have all the attention you want, you do not need to pretend to have Greek blood anymore, you can just be yourself.
Henry could have came clean about lying about his Greek ancestry at that point, but instead he doubled down - he insisted that I was putting our friendship on the line by calling him a liar and a fantasist, that he was definitely part Greek and I was insulting his Greek ancestors. But he wasn't prepared for what happened next; you see, Henry had a very typical, common Chinese surname from his father so he had claimed that the Greek blood had come from his mother's side of the family. Most of us had never met his mother and so he had painted a picture of her being this fascinating, gorgeous, sexy, cosmopolitan Eurasian lady who was part Greek. Well in order to convince Singaporeans to actually watch the movie that Henry was in, the local TV programmes started promoting it and interviewing not just the stars of the movie but also their parents. Thus Henry's parents were interviewed as part of a segment whereby they talked about how they liked this film, how entertaining it was and how proud of their son they were for being a part of it. There wasn't anything controversial about that interview, it was fairly bland to be honest but Henry's elusive mother was finally in the public eye. Oh she wasn't some sexy Eurasian supermodel with Greek blood called Aphrodite; no, she was your pretty typical Singaporean auntie whose English had a very strong Chinese accent and she often lapsed into Singlish - now that identified her as 100% Singaporean and 0% Greek instantly. I remembered how Henry loved all that media attention and he would call me up to inform me each time he was featured on TV, radio or in the print media but he had kept very quiet about the interview with his parents. But most of us saw it anyway and usually, Henry would be like, "hey did you see me on TV last night? Did you hear the interview that I did on radio last night?" However this time, he decided to lie low for a while and ignored our calls after that interview, claiming that he had come down with a bad case of the flu and was decidedly unwell. So rather than talk about it and be confronted with the truth, he decided to pretend to be sick to avoid us altogether. This actually went on and on for a few weeks and I thought, oh please - you are just being silly now. 

However, this whole Greek thing had become such an integral part of Henry's relationship with his friends, I don't even think he knew how to deal with it. Having chosen to double down on the lie each time the topic was raised, he had raised the stakes - either believe every word I tell you or else we are not friends, friends trust and believe each other. I never got to speak to Henry about that interview with his mother - quite frankly, there really isn't much to say about it. His lie about his mother was exposed live on national TV and whilst I wasn't going to kick a man who was already down, I wasn't prepared to just ignore the whole Greek thing either and pretend that it had never ever happened. After all, it was at that same period when I started learning French and I fell in love with all things French - I did go on to live, study and work in France, French became my second language and I speak near-native standard French today but at the same time, I have never ever claimed to have a drop of French blood. After all, I have a friend from gymnastics Celine who is in fact half-French and her mother was a French teacher! She admitted to me that she had a rather difficult relationship with her mother and so one of the passive aggressive ways she used to annoy her mother was to refuse to speak French. So whenever her mother spoke to her in French, she would reply in English and refuse to use the French language even if she did have some knowledge of it. Thus someone like Celine can be half-French but even she would tell you that I'm a lot more French than she ever would be, given that I speak French like a native and I have spent a lot of time living in France. "No way French people would ever think I'm French or half-French, they would just assume I'm as English as they come." So for me, my connection with the French people has never been based on having French blood, but my ability to speak French fluently and have an intimate knowledge about French culture, history and politics. Ironically, Henry had that same interest in all things Greek, but he felt it wasn't sufficient and he had to claim to have Greek blood for that interest to be validated even if he evidently didn't have any Greek blood - his mother certainly wasn't half-Greek. 
I believe it is possible to gain that sense of belonging to a part of community through the language and culture, another language I have done that with is Spanish (which is my fourth language). Let me give you a simple example of this: I was in Panama last year and I had wanted to visit a shop there called 'Mumuso' at the big Albrook Mall, the moment I walked into the shop, they were playing the song Chantaje by Shakira. It is a song that is on my playlist and I knew all the lyrics, I may have been halfway around the world in Panama but there was something that linked me to the people working in that shop - we both listened to the music of Shakira and were very familiar with this song. I saw the lady behind the counter was lip syncing to the song, she was working so she couldn't sing out aloud but you could tell she really liked this song. I caught her eye and at first she was a bit embarrassed but then I started mouthing the lyrics along with her - that's when we both shared a laugh before her boss gave her a very stern look. And that's when she looked back at me with this facial expression that said, "oops I'd better get back to work now." It was all non verbal and over in no more than like ten seconds but it was incidents like that which made me feel as if I had a real connection with a stranger through a shared culture. I didn't need to have Latino or Spanish blood in order feel that connection - you can earn it through knowledge of that community's language and culture. Thus the question I never got to ask Henry was this: why did you feel the need to lie about being Greek when obviously, you weren't at all? Did you think that it would make you more interesting to others? Did you think that others would like you more if they thought you were Eurasian and if that was the case, then aren't you somehow being quite racist against other people by assuming that having European blood made you superior to your Asian peers in Singapore? Did it ever occur to you that one day, your blatant lie would be exposed if your friends ever got to meet your mother who was so quintessentially Chinese and not at all Greek? How do you think a real Greek person would react to you if you claimed that you had Greek blood, would you be able to relate to a real Greek person through their culture and language? Could you even convince a real Greek person that you are Greek too?

There are some lies which are easier to carry off than others and he picked a really difficult one. It is the psychology of this kind of lying that has formed the basis of two of my favourite reality TV shows. In The Mole, you have a group of ten people: nine contestants and a mole. The team has to work together to earn money for the prize pot but the mole will do everything to sabotage to make sure that the team always fail to earn any money. At the end of each episode, everyone has to take a test about the actions and the identity of the mole, the contestant who knows the least about the mole is eliminated each week and in the final, the contestant who knows the most of the mole will take home the entire prize pot. It is not as straightforward as you think. In the early stages of the game, most contestants have no idea who the mole is so they will pretend to be the mole just to buy themselves time in the process, to confuse the others. So if I am in the process with Amanda, I know I am not the mole but I am totally clueless who the real mole is, I would pretend to be the mole (a process known as "moling"), thus if I can convince Amanda that I am the mole, she would score badly on the test and be eliminated. So this game is all about deceit and lying whilst trying to figure out the truth from the lies. Then there is another very similar reality TV show called The Traitors, there is also a group of 22 contestants with three traitors amongst them. the contestants will have to work together to try to figure out whom the traitors are and each episode, two contestants would be removed from the process, either through banishment (when the group votes off whom they think is a traitor) or murder (when the traitors eliminate a contestant who is too close to finding out the truth). If a traitor manages to make it to the end, the traitor will take home all the prize money. If the last three or four contestants manage to eliminate all the traitors from the process, then they get to share the prize money. It is a lot of fun when the stakes are so high (the prize money for the Traitors US season 1 was US$250,000) but Henry played a similar game with his friends in Singapore back then and he failed in this rather bizarre task that he had set himself. At least in The Mole or The Traitors, the participants were lying as part of the game - but what was Henry's excuse? What was his 'reward' in this game then? 
Henry never spoke to me again after that interview, I remember once running into him at Pacific Plaza on Scotts Road a few months later. Our eyes met and then there was a brief flicker of recognition, then he looked right through me as if I was made of glass - he decided to cope with the situation by simply ignoring me, as if I wasn't there at all. I suppose I could have confronted him but that evening, I just wasn't in the mood for that kind of argument, what would be the point of it? I didn't want to berate him or even embarrass him. In any case, that was in 1997 and I was about to leave Singapore for university, so I was happy to let sleeping dogs lie. Henry was able to hit the reboot button after that incident, he couldn't face old friends like me but since he had become a minor celebrity in Singapore after that film, there were so many people who wanted to get to know him. Thus he simply exchanged his old friends for new ones, starting anew with people without having to lie about being Greek. Henry never acted again, it was a one-off for him. When he finished NS, he went to university in the UK and that was when our paths sort off crossed again. I was chatting to a gay student from his university in 1999 and that guy said to me, "I don't want to assume that you're going to know every Singaporean student in my university but that's this guy I met recently, I was wondering if you might know him. He said he was an actor and half-Greek." I rolled my eyes - of course it was Henry, except that he had gone from being just a quarter Greek to half Greek. So yes, I spilled the beans and told that guy the whole story. He just rolled is eyes and said, "yeah to be honest, I wasn't convinced that he was half white as he did look so Chinese to me but I didn't want to call him a liar though, so it was really awkward." Henry had gone from being a minor local celebrity in Singapore to just another foreign student in the UK, once again he felt worried that people wouldn't find him interesting enough to want to befriend him and old habits die hard - claiming to be Eurasian with Greek blood was hard enough to pull off in Singapore but in the UK? In Europe? Really? I could only shake my head in disappointment - clearly, Henry hadn't learnt his lesson at all. 

So where is Henry today? I did try to look him up on Google but he didn't have much on an internet footprint, most of the articles I found related to the film he did all those years ago back in the 1990s. Through some mutual friends, I found out that he had returned to Singapore after graduating and has kept a fairly low profile. His father had passed away some years ago so he is living with his elderly mother now, taking care of her. Unfortunately, his real name consisted of a very common Christian name along with an even more common Chinese surname, thus it was impossible to find him on social media. But according to my sources, the death of his father was under tragic circumstances (and that's another story for another day - I won't go into it here) and Henry was never the same again. Mind you, I'm 47 and Henry is 46 - not all older, middle aged guys have embraced this social media thing; quite a lot of them simply ignore it or are simply passively consuming content on platforms like Instagram or Tiktok without every posting anything. But I would want to leave you with a memory from 1996, that was when Henry told me about a trip he took to Athens when he managed to sneak away from his parents for a few hours to go sightseeing on his own - it was June and the mid-afternoon heat was just too much to bear for his parents. So he ran to the nearest gay bar, met a gorgeous tall Greek guy called Konstantinos and they had a torrid afternoon of earthly pleasures (I'm skipping the details here) before he returned to the hotel for dinner with his parents, claiming that he got lost on the way back to the hotel and that was what took him so long. Back then, I was just happily listening to a story about Henry on his holidays, but now I don't even know which part was true and which part was just pure fantasy. I definitely didn't believe the part about the tall Greek hunk called Konstantinos but wait - did Henry even go to Greece? If he did go, did he manage to go to a gay bar in Athens and what really happened there? Talking to Henry back then was like being on The Mole or The Traitors, as I had to try to pick out the truth from all the lies - I was already jealous enough that he was rich enough to visit Europe regularly as a teenager. 
Okay so there you go, that's it from me on this issue. It has come up quite by coincidence as Choaniki and I were just talking about someone else we know who has been caught lying a few times - we both know how we feel about people who lie but what do you think about the story of Henry? Is it simply a bit of harmless by a young man to try to make himself more interesting or is there fundamentally wrong or disingenuous about pretending to be something you're not? Why wasn't Henry content with being that Singaporean guy who loves all things Greek without claiming to be Greek? Did it surprise you that Henry went right back to claiming to be Greek after arriving in the UK to start university? Do we now live in a world where someone can simply 'identify as Greek' if that's how they view themselves? Do you think that Henry is still claiming to be Greek in Singapore today or might he actually look back at what he did in the past and think, "what the hell was I thinking playing a game like that?" Would you gladly be friends with someone like Henry whilst putting up with his lies, as long as you categorize them as "harmless lies"?  Or would you struggle to differentiate the truth from the lies in such a relationship? And finally if you lived in Singapore in the period 1996-1997, could you actually figure out who this Henry actually was based on the few clues left here?! Please leave a comment below and many thanks for reading. 

36 comments:

  1. I never bothered to do an ancestry DNA test. So what is I am half European or JP? It wouldn't change an ounce of my identity.

    But I can pull off a pretty convincing Japanese Engrish accent and I was wandering around MBS Shoppes recently pretending I was a Japanese tourist just for shits and giggles (like I pretend not to speak English when approached on the street by CC or insurance people).

    In fact when I travelled to Japan before the big C hit, I was frequently allowed into Yakuza run bars because I looked the part and spoke native level JP (having studied and worked in a JP MNC for close to 10 years).

    In fact I have even attended a wedding of a native Japanese friend in hapo-en, Tokyo.

    So for not being a native Japanese I can consider myself more Japanese than even some of the natives who moved overseas for their studies and have never worked in a traditional JP company before.

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    1. The ancestry DNA tests are not that accurate for us Asian people as it depends on the quality of the database and so far, loads of white people have done it in Europe and North America, even Oz/NZ but to try to find matches for our DNA against the database is going to be less accurate given how this is just big data at the end of the day. I have re-read my piece above and wanted to add the following points about Henry: he wasn't the first person to tell lies to make himself more interesting that I've come across. I remember meeting this Australian guy once years ago who was desperately trying to convince a group of friends that he was very, very rich and I found that strange. Did he think we were gonna like him more if we knew he was rich? What was he gonna do, take us all out for dinner then pay the bill as he is so rich (no he never did that)? Real rich people don't feel the need to boast about their wealth, they already know how rich they are, so what was this guy trying to achieve then? It created doubt in my mind so I kept my distance as there was no trust in that relationship. Secondly, could Henry's mother been a very assimilated half-Greek Eurasian Singaporean who was born and bred in Singapore (which would account for her accent)? No, because she didn't look Greek at all, she looked completely Asian and more to the point, Henry freaked out and went into hiding once he realized that we all saw that interview with his mother. It was clearly an admission of guilt - if he thought that there was any way he could have weaved a narrative to still convince us that his mother was half European and white, then he would have done it. Remember, this guy treats lying to his friends as a game he likes to play, so this was the first time he really freaked out as he realized oh shit my lies have been exposed, I can't convince people she is half-Greek after she went on live TV like that. Lastly, I think there's an element of racism in this whole story - a kind of internalized anti-Asian that is quite prevalent in Singapore. Henry attended ACS, a school in Singapore that is famous for hating anything Chinese, with ACS students proudly claiming that they can't speak a word of Chinese, burning their Chinese textbooks after they have taken their final Chinese exam and swearing never ever to speak a word of Mandarin ever again. That is the kind of social context which did push Henry to the point where he wished he was Greek instead of Chinese, as he spent so many years in a school environment which really vehemently hated all things Chinese, where white = superior and Chinese = terrible, but Henry (and his parents) are as Chinese as they come, so how do you reconcile that mess in his head then?

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    2. Lol this story of Henry claiming to be mixed reminds me of the time my white American friend "Felix" who once had a friend who was also a very rich Chinese-Singaporean, who we'll call "Stacy". Felix is a liberal American from California who was a humanities scholar. And he once said to me "I once tried to make conversation with Stacy by asking things about Chinese culture since she's Chinese-Singaporean and might have ancestors from China, but Stacy kept on telling me 'no I'm actually mixed!' And I said to her 'mixed with what?' and Stacy said 'scottish maybe? I don't know...' and I thought if she doesn't even know what she's mixed with, why is it important to insist to people that she is mixed in the first place? Shouldn't you only feel proud of identities you do consciously know about? And also, what is wrong with being Chinese? I think Chinese culture is really cool which is why I came to Asia to work." Felix didn't understand the colonialism context and feeling inferior because some foreign occupier wants to make it feel like their culture is superior and everything else is bad. But also, Stacy is so much richer than Felix who is only a middle class American, she lives with her parents who live in a huge landed property in Sg. So Felix is wondering why Stacy is not more proud of who she is considering her station in life is very secure. Felix just thinks he's some average white guy, but when he goes around Singapore, Asians try to impress him by claiming some western ancestry while he thinks "there's nothing special about us."

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    3. As explained to Choaniki above, there's a certain cohort of Singaporean Chinese young people who deeply hate all things Chinese and love all things white - it's not even subtle, they really fucking hate being Chinese but wait, that means they hate themselves! So it's a really mess with people like Stacy and Henry who both wish they were anything but Chinese - the way I see it, if you wanna be interesting and likable, then go do things that will define you as an individual and express your identity that way. It could be sports, music, culture, you could learn a new language (or a few new languages), you could become an expert in your trade, but your activities and accomplishments then define you rather than anything to do with your blood line.

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    4. This reminds me of the time when I was waiting for my dental appointment in Singapore and there was a copy of Singapore Tatler in the waiting room, so I decided to read it to see what high society in Singapore got up to. The punchline is that the number one accessory in Singaporean high society was a white friend - cling on to the nearest Angmoh and be photographed with a white person, then your social status would instantly be elevated. I rolled my eyes as I live in London, surrounded by white people. I thought, when these white expats go home to their home country, would Tatler USA, Tatler UK or Tatler Australia even be interested in them? No, but somehow, because of their skin colour, they're considered social royalty in Singapore? Singaporeans still have their deeply ingrained colonial mindset where they hate themselves and worship white people and I find that really quite distasteful.

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    5. I don't hate my Han Chinese identity in fact I have many identities depenthds on the situation. When I am in China I act like I am from a Southern province like Guangzhou or Shenzhen to disguise my lack of a mainland accent. When I am in Japan I pretend I am an returnee Japanese native. In Malaysia I switch to a MY Chinese accent.

      This has nothing to do with not being proud of my Singapore roots but simply to avoid standing out and getting targeted by scammers (China), burglers (Malaysia) or far right nationalists (JP).

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    6. On that point, I actually take a completely different stance given that I speak mostly European languages whilst you speak Asian languages. Let's take the top 3 languages that I do speak fluently apart from English and Mandarin, they are French, Spanish and Welsh. Am I fluent? Yes I am in all 3. Do I sound like a native speaker? No I don't, but it doesn't matter. There's a lot of respect from the native speakers because I'm the guy from Singapore who has taken the effort to learn their language to a very high level. Physically, I stand out amongst a sea of French, Spanish or Welsh speakers - I look nothing like them, so I accept that because of my Chinese face, I am gonna stand out no matter what I do so I may as well just embrace this difference and gain that respect from them, especially in Spanish as I always tell them I have never ever taken a single class of Spanish in my life, never had a Spanish teacher, yet I attained fluency all on my own because I am really smart and figured it out. Yes I have an accent, no I don't sound like a native speaker at all, but yes I have their respect and that I believe is what really matters at the end of the day.

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    7. Hey Alex. What surprised me is that I would assume it's the working class Chinese Singaporeans who hate being Chinese because the only white people they see in Singapore are rich expats, while most of the poor people are Asians, but instead it's the rich Chinese-Singaporeans who vehemently hate being Chinese. Stacy thought it would make her cool to Felix to be part Scottish, but if you go to Scotland it has the 2nd highest number of deaths from drug overdoses in the world. The way you described ACS sounds like a way more successful and less violent version of the "Residential Schools for Indigenous Children" in Canada or the "American Indian boarding schools" in the US, where the government would forcibly take native American/Canadian children away from their families and tribes, and try to educate them to be "white" to remove all traces of native culture. However in this case they didn't have to use force at all, instead use the promise of prestige and a good quality education as ACS is one of the most elite schools in Singapore. But even though graduates from ACS are prosperous, like internally it must suck to hate yourself and your own identity. I once had a roommate in undergrad who said she was offered a place to ACS, but she told all the other roommates "I didn't want to go because it was elitist."

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    8. Oh Scotland is a divided country - ie. you have pockets of prosperity in the big cities, you have lavish country estates (such as Balmoral castle where the royal family resides) and then you have loads of very poor people (and everything in between of course). Same thing with every country - in Singapore, you have rich people living in Sentosa Cove right down to those stuck in HDB flats and everything in between. Wealth is never equally distributed regardless of skin colour or nationality. Oh and ACS is overrated. The system in Singapore has changed a lot since my time, but at least back in my day, ACS was like the second or third choice if you couldn't get into one of the top schools. Such was the system where the kids study really hard to get the best possible results in the hope of getting into the best possible school. So if a boy does get the top score in Singapore, ACS won't be his first choice. In fact if he did choose ACS, most people would be like, but why? You had the top score and you chose to go to a school which accepts students with less than perfect grades? It's like getting the top A level results in the UK and picking a mid-tier university like Manchester or Sheffield University instead of Oxford/Cambridge. That's gonna raise a few eyebrows and leave most people puzzled.

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    9. @Amanda I am a stupid person and always didn't do well in school. So given the opportunity to join an "elite" school would be an opportunity I would jump at since i can see the networking value of it.

      Most of my secondary school and polytechnic classmates don't even use LinkedIn and I doubt they have a huge professional network. Getting to know someone like @LIFT was a huge lifesaver for me.

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    10. Actually this networking thing is grossly overrated. I still keep in touch with some nice people from my school days but really only ONE of them turned out to be a useful contact in Singapore - she was a junior in VJC and a lawyer today. However, even if someone is a nice person, they may go into a totally different industry and thus there is zero overlap in terms of your professional interests. And you're counting on people from that group of former classmates going into the same industry as you turning out to be useful contacts - the chances of that actually happening is painfully low. As for my former UCL classmates, useful contacts number a big fat ZERO. But that's fine - let me give you an example of how things work in reality. I have a useful contact in Singapore who actually turned out to be from VJC as well, but our paths never crossed until we both realized we worked in finance and could help each other. It's that realization of the benefits of collaboration since we have mutual interests that bring people together in terms of professional networking - you don't need to have gone to school with them for that to happen.

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    11. Hey Alex. I thought ACS was sorta a private school because they have branches in other countries, I once played in a high school basketball tournament hosted by one of ACS' overseas schools. They do have ACS-international, which caters to foreign kids in Singapore and does operate as a private school, but I have no idea how prestigious it is relative to other international schools in Singapore.

      Regarding networking - I agree with you that it's a right place right time situation. The stars have to align for two successful people to want to work together, even if they are both very successful in their own right. Sure it's better than nothing, which is the case if you went to a not famous school, but it's more of a cherry on top rather than elevating someone with zero options otherwise. I can give a couple of examples. In undergrad I was once roommates with some MIT exchange students, and one of them happened to be the same major as me and offered to introduce me to her mentor Max Tegmark for summer research. Another time in undergrad, I worked as a researcher in a lab with a Singaporean postdoc who went to Caltech for her PhD, and she told me to apply to a summer research program at Caltech for internationals. Anyway, although I could've done more, in hindsight I declined both opportunities because I thought I would always have other opportunities to do research, and because I wasn't that interested in either astrophysics or biophysics. I wasn't someone who had zero options for which a connection to MIT or Caltech through a friend would've been a lifeline. But if I was someone who did have zero options, then I would've never gone to a school in such close proximity to MIT or Caltech students/alumni in the first place. And later on, I did work with another professor who went to Stanford for both undergrad and PhD, and because I was so passive regarding using the connection, another prof in our collaboration group was trying to pressure that guy into introducing me to his former Stanford advisor before I applied to schools for a PhD. But I wasn't interested in the former advisor's research area, so yet again I declined. Stars must align...

      So the problem of evaluating the usefulness of networking through schools is that it has to be benchmarked compared to just going to the school and not using any connections. Because chances are, to get into such a school the candidate must already be very talented that they can be successful without school connections. The name of the school and other achievements help in talking to people outside of the school. Meanwhile schools which give you no connections are also places with low barriers of entry, so less people want to talk to people from there. So it's a case of correlation vs. causation on the success of graduates when it comes to networking within a school with good connections.

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    12. OK allow me to explain the ACS situation - here's a bit of Singaporean history for you. ACS (the Anglo-Chinese School) is one of the oldest schools in Singapore, established in 1886. It grew over the years to expand into 2 primary schools, 3 secondary schools, 1 junior college (for A levels) and one international school in Jakarta. Note that the one in Jakarta is their only school outside Singapore, it's not like they have a franchise of international schools all over the world - just one in Jakarta. Just to confuse you further, there is an ACS international school with branches in the UK and Qatar which have absolutely NOTHING to do with ACS Singapore. So beware, it's just a coincidence they have a similar name.

      So in Singapore, actually ACS Independent is pretty good, it would be your second or third choice in Singapore if your kid didn't manage to get into the top school (from the Raffles family). However, ACS Barker Road is not as prestigious and would accept students with very mediocre grades - that's why when you hear that someone is from ACS, you'll be like, "which one? Independent or Barker Road? The one for good students or the dumping ground for mediocre kids trying to pass themselves off as smart ones by trading on the ACS brand name?" Then you have ACS International in Singapore which essentially functions as an international school for expatriates, this is reflected in the way there are so many white teachers employed there to make sure that the white students feel at home and so they would rarely have to face a local, Singaporean, Asian teacher. Now with international schools, they are expensive and they are not trying to compete with other top Singaporean schools to get the very brightest of Singaporean students - they are focused on making loads of money so they'll gladly admit rich but hopelessly stupid students (think Prince Harry at Eton) who can pay the high fees.

      So in Singapore, there are a total of 136 secondary schools altogether (including those who offer a straight-through programme, allowing students to by pass the O levels and simply sit for their A levels at the end of that process). Number one on that list is Raffles of course but then you have a bunch of schools in the top ten which are all pretty respectable and ACS Independent is there in the top ten, probably top 5 sometimes but mind you, it's not like there's a massive difference between say 4th and 7th place on that list - they're all very good schools. However, ACS Barker Road, is more like 20th to 25th. Again, there's little difference between the school ranked 20th and the one ranked 25th, but when you compare the school ranked 25th to the one ranked 5th - there's a massive difference at that point. And here's the thing about education: the simple principle of GIGO applies. Garbage in, Garbage out. If a school like Raffles or ACS Independent can attract the smartest students of each cohort, then they have little difficulty in constantly producing top award winning scholars because the raw material they are given to work with is already of the finest quality. Then the schools at the bottom of the league table are fighting a losing battle by the same token as the raw material they are given is the very worst in Singapore.

      That's why this system perpetuates itself - the best schools stay elite and the worst schools never improve even after decades because of GIGO. Part 2 below.

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    13. As for your friend, I presume that she was offered a place at ACS International in Singapore which let's be honest, is a totally different kettle of fish altogether because they don't care about how well the students perform academically, it is a world away from the pushy Singaporean parents and their very stressed out kids working ridiculously hard to get straight As. You didn't mention if that friend was a local Singaporean or an expat, but I am guessing she was an expat? Anyway, so the ACS group of schools span the spectrum of Singaporean education from ACS Independent being the typical top end school where students sacrifice everything in pursuit of straight As, to ACS Barker Road where average students give up and accept mediocrity as their road in life to ACS International where rich but stupid kids fail all their exams and nobody cares at all about what grades they get. The three schools may have rather similar names under the ACS brand name franchise but couldn't be more different!

      Is it prestigious or elitist? Well, ACS independent is okay but it's more like, "smirk smirk, so your kid wasn't smart enough to get into Raffles eh? Oh well, at least he got his second choice. ACS independent is the dumping ground for Raffles rejects." By that token, it's not that prestigious, not at all. Elitist? That's strictly for the international school where the rich parents pay an arm and a leg for their kids to be educated there. It just means you have rich parents, it doesn't mean you're smart nor does that make you more attractive to future employers.

      Final note: ACS used to be just one secondary school until it split into three, first with the establishment of ACS Independent in 1992 and that became the version of ACS for the brighter kids whilst ACS Barker Road was the dumping ground for average, mediocre kids. ACS International didn't even come into existence until 2005. However, this would make these schools come across as quite new so they tend to use the date of 1886 as their 'start date' to brand themselves as one of the oldest schools in Singapore. And that's it from me on ACS!

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    14. As for networking, let me give you an example, there's this guy from my VJC cohort whom I shall refer to as Hong. He went into investment banking and is very useful. I kinda knew him then, we had mutual friends but we were never that close as we were in different courses. So our paths never crossed in a way it would if someone else did theatre studies & drama like I did, then we would have the chance to have spent so many hours doing rehearsals together and bonding that way. Hong was a triple science (physics, chem, bio) + maths guy so whilst we knew each other, we were never gonna become close. Imagine if I suddenly looked him up on social media and said, hey Hong, you remember me? We're now working in the same industry, let's network and do business together! He'll be like, I last spoke to you in 1994 and now you wanna look me up? That's desperate. Like you clearly want something out of me. So it would make little sense for me to look Hong up today even if he is directly relevant to what I am doing today. I would find it easier to approach a total stranger on Linkedin and start from scratch rather than resort to looking up Hong.

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    15. Sorry typo: He went into investment banking and is very SUCCESSFUL.

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    16. Wow there are two ACS secondary schools and one international school, and one overseas branch! Very confusing! Oh my friend was a local judging by her accent. But yeah it's odd to say a school is "elitist" because nobody really says that about Raffles or Hwachong or NUS high school. And yeah one of the locals told me no matter how rich they are, they are banned from attending an international private school. The only exception would be if they were only a PR holder, then they'd have the choice of public or private school. Someone told me this is to prevent an Eton situation where the rich kids get the best education by paying more for schooling, but in practice the private tuition market fills in the void.

      By the way it actually makes me happy that you say in Singapore it doesn't help your reputation to go to a wealthy school, and people are just treated like Prince Harry who was too dumb to pass the A levels on his own. In America we have a huge classism problem about private schools, high school and undergrad level. People think you're smarter just because your parents can pay $50k a year for high school tuition, when in reality these schools are just richer and have more resources, while public schools are very underfunded. Probably only New York city has the case where the public schools are considered the top schools that all smart kids want to get into, but because competition is so high they implemented a Singapore style entrance exam system near the age one takes the PSLE or O levels. And even then people complain that system is "unfair" because it's majority Asians who score high enough for the exam, even if they're mostly immigrants who are not from rich families.

      I think networking only works if you're really close friends with someone, but that tends to happen at smaller schools. But even then, it's so much easier to network outside of school that messaging someone out of the blue on LinkedIn is one of the worst actions you could take to network. Networking at a tennis club or country club seems easier, because you get to know a person in the now compared to someone you knew back then. And even then I don't think you're supposed to ask for something explicitly. Instead you explain what you do and what your goals are, as a friend, and if the other side wants to help you they'll offer something, and then you can ask more about that. In the examples I gave I never asked anyone directly for anything, they just found out my major and what I'm interested in and thought they could help.

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    17. Hey Choaniki have you ever watched the film "The Talented Mr. Ripley" with Matt Damon and Jude Law? I think that movie most accurately portrays how hard it is for a working class person to befriend an upper class person who can help them get into the upper class. Granted, the rich person that the poor main character chose to befriend was not a good person, he was a total jerk in fact. But the difficult part for those two in the movie was they couldn't go to social outings together without the rich person footing the entire bill. I go to a school where 70% of the students come from the top 20% of households in America, and 2% of the students come from the bottom 20% of households. And when I talk to students here in the bottom 80%, they talk about how left out they feel sometimes, or how its hard to explain their situation when they can't spend $100 on dinner, etc. I did remember when I was hanging out with the MIT students, we did go out to some expensive places in Sg. It's not entirely hopeless, but when its that hard to fit in socially, to advance one's career it's easier to go to industry workshops or company networking events instead of networking with your peers. When I attended an industry workshop, I was surprised the people there were mostly the 30% of students who were not in the top 20% of income. I met a lot of full scholarship kids there from poor countries too. But this is mainly outside of school networking, and using the university's name to get people to want to talk to you.

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    18. @Amanda, yes I have watched that move. But it is not a documentary do I'm wonder if portions were fake or exaggerated. It is like watching the HBO Max serial "Succession" and wondering what lessons on quiet luxury you can learn from it.

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    19. OK I am not going to guess what your friend is thinking at that time but it could be a self-confidence thing. I have encountered many Singaporeans who were brought up in very working class families, their parents are not that educated, they were never ever the brightest kid in class and they're just quite used to being plain average in life. Like if there were 30 students in the class, they'd typically be ranked around 14th - 16th, so not completely stupid but no chance of making top ten either. So when you take this kid from their comfort zone where they are being content staying in their lane and putting them in a highly competitive situation whereby they are amongst the smartest kids in the country and expected to keep up with the best - they freak out, lose confidence, they don't want to be challenged that way and fail. So they come up with all kinds of excuses such as "it is too elitist" because it sounds better than, "I have low self-confidence and I am so scared of putting myself in a situation where I will fail. I'd rather pick an easier target/goal and achieve it just to avoid failing." This is not complete bullshit of course. Case in point, I have a family friend who was from a small town in the UK - he was so used to being the top student in every classroom he stepped into from primary school up to A levels, he was the genius of the small town. He then made it to Oxford where suddenly, he was surrounded by students who were super intelligent too - guess what happened in his first year at Oxford? He failed his exams, he had a really hard time struggling to keep up and developed all kinds of mental health issues as he got used to the fact that he wasn't as smart as he thought he had been. Finally he switched courses to stay in Oxford to an 'easier' option and managed to scrape through the final exams but that's a good example of how someone can really struggle when you take them way too far out of their comfort zone. We have pride, we hate failing, we hate letting people down, we hate disappointment and it is natural for your friend to have wanted to have avoided all that - it is my guess that the 'elitist' label was just an excuse (albeit not very plausible one) to avoid a very competitive environment. One more facet about Singaporean culture that you are probably already familiar with - in the Singaporean context, Singaporeans place an insane amount of social value on academic grades. Like if you're a straight A student, you could commit murder and people would say, "oh that poor scholar is probably so stressed out that s/he temporarily lost his mind under pressure" (ref: Ouyang Xiangyu the scholar who was trialled for murder but received an outpouring of sympathy in Singapore because she is a straight A scholar); but if you failed your exams and struggled in school, then they would be asking for the death penalty the moment you jaywalk or litter. It is as ridiculous as it sounds, yes. Thus those in Singapore who have excellent grades do walk around feeling as if they're of a superior class, better than you mere mortals who are just average. That is a different form of elitism which isn't based on wealth/money but grades because in Singapore, there is the assumption that good grades = get a good job = you'll become rich and thus good grades is synonymous with wealth but that's not the case at all. We've seen loads of academically brilliant students who are great at acing exams totally suck in the business world to make money due to a total lack of social skills, then we also have rich kids who are genuinely stupid but have inherited so much wealth from their parents (ref: Prince Harry type characters). But without actually speaking to you friend to find out what the actual issue was, I don't think you can take her claim of 'elitism' at face value without factoring in the local cultural factors at play in the context of Singapore.

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    20. As for networking, I just spent an hour on the phone with this lady called Angela in Singapore. Her and I have never ever crossed paths in Singapore but we were introduced by a mutual friend (in New York ironically) - so we just started chatting, realized we had a lot in common and now we're trying to work together on a few projects. We're just practical that way, it's just so much more logical to find people who are directly relevant to what our current goals are than to hope for someone in our past to happen to be in a position to give us help - pursue the latter and you risk squeezing a square peg in round hole. No, that's just not efficient nor pragmatic, I am going to find the right people to help me even if it means finding a complete stranger like Angela and starting that relationship from scratch knowing that we are in a great position to help each other. The only value that my education has contributed to that is that if Angela ever wanted to look me up, she could see that I had attended good schools and universities and thus have that air of being well-educated and not dumb. But I doubt people like her would even bother as it doesn't matter, what is more immediate and important is that she and I can collaborate and make money together.

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    21. Yes I've noticed that when people say "elitist" in Singapore, it doesn't necessarily mean money. People say Raffles is Elitist all the time, but Raffles has many middle class and even working class students there. I guess when people mean "elitist" it could mean "scholars are the best, everyone else sucks." So I guess maybe my friend wanted to be in a school with a more diverse student body in terms of grades, but I dunno what that would do for her intellectually or career wise. In Singapore the prevailing opinion would be "No! Go to school with as smart of peers as you can get!" I guess some people could also think that only the A level results matter, and not which school they went to. Because I don't know if NUS/NTU would look at two different applications with the same exact A level grades then use the names of the JCs they went to as a deciding factor. So if someone was confident they could score well on the final A level exams, then they could just pick whichever school to go to. I took the cambridge A levels in high school at a private school where there were some Prince Harry types (I knew a girl in my batch whose father owned an airline), but I wasn't particularly worried about my grades because there were also people who scored the highest in the country for particular science subjects coming out of my school. My parents never really cared about sending me to the top high school in the city where everyone was smart, they seemingly just picked high schools with really small class sizes and that was it. My entire K-12 education I was in classes with 10-15 students each.

      I read an article about Ouyang Xiangyu. She was on the A*STAR graduate scholarship, as in the Singapore government was paying Stanford up to $300k USD total of its own money to educate Ouyang Xiangyu as a PhD student. But in return she has to not only complete the PhD, but work for the government as a staff scientist for a minimum of 3 years, or else she has to pay all that money back. Yeah she's bankrupt! The thing is, if she had external funding, she wouldn't be under as much pressure as someone who was supported by their advisor's funding (e.g me and my labmates). So it does look like a case of "scholar cracked under pressure at Stanford." She could've been doing research with a Nobel Prize winner for all we know, and subjected to very high expectations. Also that potential $300k debt if she chose to quit would be weighing on her heavily. The thing about being a PhD student instead of a normal undergrad student is you have to innovate, not just memorize things from a textbook.

      Oh that's cool you made a new friend! And yeah, the name UCL is only so she doesn't think you're a ponzi schemer when she looks up your background to gauge if she can trust you to do business with. But even with the school networking, its all about proximity to the right people. If you can find it otherwise by using mutual friends from work, then it's about the same thing. High school or undergrad connections aren't very useful anyway because none of the people there are working yet and aren't in a position to help.

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    22. Aaah you see, in a small town in the UK or US, all the kids would just go to the local high school as there isn't another high school around for like 100 miles, so it is your choice by default and thus you'll have a mix of extremely brilliant to really stupid students there. But in Singapore, that's just not the case given that they have the streaming process to group students of the same ability together - so that's actually a lot more efficient for the teacher. I had an experience in French class which I took privately and saw how frustrated the teacher was in a mixed ability class - a few of us were quite happily chatting away with the teacher only in French whilst some of them couldn't understand a word the teacher was saying and the teacher was rolling her eyes. She must've been thinking, why the heck do I have a mixed ability class? How am I suppose to conduct the same lesson for students of such different abilities? But that's what teachers in high schools in small towns do all the time. We don't believe in that in Singapore, efficiency is the goal and in that French class, if the teacher indulged the smarter students like me, the weaker students get left behind and never progress. If the teacher helped the weaker students, then I feel like, hey why am I being punished and neglected for being good at the subject? Mixed ability classes are really, really hard for any teacher to deal with. Thus in Singapore, elitism is not the same as in the West where it's mostly based on wealth whilst in Singapore, it is mostly to do with your grades and the prestige that comes associated with being a student from a top school. Of course in Singapore, that has some real value! So take for example, an admissions department at a Singapore university looks at two students with identical grades - one from a top JC, one from a crap JC. The place would be given to the one from the better JC because the admissions officer would think, "this student must have been so naughty/lazy to have messed up his exams earlier in the process, so that's why he ended up in a terrible JC. That's a moral flaw, whereas the other student is the law abiding citizen and hardworking student who is more likely to become a more useful member of our society. Let's reward that good behaviour and punish the bad behaviour, so we reinforce the morals that govern our orderly society in Singapore."

      As for Angela in Singapore, I don't think she even cares if I went to university or not - the fact is our mutual friend in NYC vouched for me and said to her, "you need to speak to Alex, I've known him a long time and he is going to be a very interesting contact for you. I'm sure the two of you will have a lot in common and can help each other in the future." It is that kind of recommendation that helps open doors a lot more than any kind of degree or paper qualification.

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    23. Oh I never thought about the difficulty of teaching a mixed-ability class. Growing up in school the teacher would just split the class into ability levels based on a placement test, and tailor the curriculum to each group. But this was only feasible because class sizes were really small, even though it was more work for the teacher (they were at least getting paid above average because it was a wealthy private school). But at the university level professors consider it a punishment to have to teach the remedial class, or when they hate getting blamed for a high failure rate. I remember there was one professor who enjoyed teaching the remedial class and one who hated it during my undergrad, and surprise surprise the former was Italian while the other was Singaporean. When I told the Singaporean one "oh that prof likes teaching remedial", he said "oh yeah, it's because in Europe they are more egalitarian while people in Singapore are more obsessed with performance. But if he liked their system so much, why did he move to Singapore for work?" And to be fair, Italy has a terrible jobs market, its economy just isn't growing because they don't innovate very much and there is excessive bureaucracy. I've met lots of Italians in Singapore who moved there because there were more jobs and the salaries were higher. Maybe Italy could use some of Sg's performance obsessed mindset.

      I think that's kinda sad the universities would give emphasis to the name of the JC, but US universities are also guilty of not taking people from low-performing high schools. However the reason they do this is not because of some grades in primary school, but because they are elitist in terms of money. Only because of affirmative action and pressure from underrepresented groups would being from a "bad" high school be seen as a plus and can improve your odds of admission.

      Where did you take formal French classes? In the UK, SG, or France? I was considering learning French because it's such a pretty language, and in case I wanted to travel to France or Switzerland for a vacation. Spanish would also be useful, vacationing in Mexico or Puerto Rico would be much closer.

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    24. In Singaporean and other Asian cultures, academic grades are used as a measure of one's morals - if you're a straight A student, you weren't out drinking at wild parties and mixing with the wrong crowd having fun, you were sensible enough to stay at home and make the sacrifices necessary to achieve those good grades. But if you messed up one exam, then they would assume that you were lazy or hedonistic, that you were out at wild parties instead of studying hard and thus even if you were plain stupid, you lacked morals to make the right decisions when it came to partying instead of studying - thus that makes you even worse than a stupid student, you're immoral even at such a young age and thus deserve to be condemned. That's why Singaporean gatekeepers are so harsh when it comes to students who have had a poor exam results at a crucial point which has led them to a poor school. Take my nephew for example, he royally screwed up his PSLE and performed really badly, ending up in a bad secondary school. He then did quite well for his O levels, made it to a decent, respectable JC, worked his socks off and then did well enough in his A levels to earn a place at NUS. Yet he is paranoid that people are going to look at his secondary school, assume that he messed up his PSLE because of a serious moral flaw (lazy, immature, hedonistic, playful etc) and judge him very harshly; that if it ever came down to him vs another candidate, he would be eternally punished for a bad exam result when he was 12. That's harsh. Heck, I know I'm no idiot but even I have messed up a few exams over the years. Thankfully those were not crucial exams that would haunt me for the rest of my life.

      I took French classes in Singapore during my NS (evening classes + sometimes on weekends). But if I were you, I'd learn Spanish. Loads of cheap flights to Puerto Rico and that's America light - you don't need a visa as you're not even leaving the US. I've been there, it's very Americanized and everyone speaks English but there's still enough Latino culture to be fascinating.

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    25. Mind you, having said that, most Latin American countries have very relaxed visa rules as they just want as many tourists to come as possible and spend loads of money there. So you can pick a destination that is cheaper than Puerto Rico, the flights to PR may be cheap but everything else is on par with a major American city when you get there. Hop over to somewhere like Dominican Republic and suddenly it is so much cheaper.

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    26. One thing that always surprised me when I was in Singapore was when I would see Christians doing public prayers, and someone would say "for the elderly, we pray for their health, for the adults, we pray for their prosperity, and for the children, we pray for them to get good exam results." In the West, what do high school kids dream of? A car when they turn 16 I suppose. Or to go to prom and have a good time, but not really exam results. I think that scholar at Stanford could've cracked under pressure because at that stage life isn't one big exam, it's very subjective and social skills matter a lot more to get along with your teammates and boss, as well as being able to communicate ideas well. To me its like for 18 years of their lives there is one sole focus, but then after that they have to rely on other skills to survive. Not that the Western system is perfect, but it's more well-rounded.

      Oh that's cool you took formal lessons while in Singapore. I guess they had to do mixed ability because the market for French learners isn't that big in Sg. Yeah Spanish is probably the most directly useful because almost an entire nearby continent speaks it. I just looked at the map and the Dominican Republic is right next door to Puerto Rico. I suppose I could stretch my US dollar quite far if I visited somewhere outside the US proper, and practice my Spanish.

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    27. Well allow me to share with you how I started doing French, I went into the army immediately after my A levels with barely enough time to have much of a break between my final exams and my enlistment day. So I went from studying really hard to being in an environment where my brain wasn't engaged at all. On my days off, I went to the bookstore to buy some really nice books to read on economic theory as well as English literature (including the complete works of Shakespeare) but then I realized, I am getting through so many books - I only read them once and then they collect dust. So one day I was at home and stumbled upon my sister's old French text books, she did a few years of French then promptly gave up - declaring it as useless and too difficult. Within hours I was totally hooked, I then purchased a lot of French books to teach myself French and it was my passion to become totally fluent in French. I then got to the stage where my hours in NS became regular in that I could take evenings off - so I found an evening class at l'Alliance Franciase in Singapore aka AFS. Given that I had absolutely no experience with French apart from my self-taught efforts, at first they wanted me to start from the very bottom. But then a teacher was nice and decided, okay we'll give you a few exams to do followed my an oral exam on the spot - no preparation, no studying, are you free for the next 3 hours? So it was the ultimate surprise test and I aced the written part but struggled with the oral part as I really couldn't understand everything the teacher said. So when it came to written French, I was intermediate/advanced but with oral French, I was beginner/intermediate. The teacher was so puzzled - she asked me, did I study French as a child so I remembered how to read/write but got rusty with the oral communication? Then I said no I'm completely self-taught in the last 12 months. I just wanted to know how far I've managed to get on my own and try to get some qualifications that will enable me to do French as part of my degree. The teacher was amazed - she had NEVER met a self-taught person who attained this standard of written French before, though yeah, I performed poorly in the oral exam then. So I was placed at two classes simultaneously in AFS then, one more beginners and one for intermediate just to see how I would cope in a formal classroom setting. I found the textbook materials for both classes way too easy but still struggled with the oral communication - it always felt like the teacher was speaking too fast. It confused the teachers as I would construct complex sentences in perfect French, but when she replied, I would ask her to speak really really slowly before I could slowly process everything she said. That was way back in 1996 and I've had many years of listening to French since and so now I can watch a French movie without subtitles, but listening comprehension is the hardest part of learning a foreign language. But even within the classes at AFS, the ability was so mixed despite their best efforts to group us according to ability.

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    28. At least I went through all that formal structure with AFS before going to university and doing French as part of my degree. With Spanish, I was like okay, I'm just going to skip to the part where I'm totally fluent without bothering to ask a teacher to let me take an exam so I can have a piece of paper that says I'm fluent in Spanish. I've worked for a Peruvian company where everything was done entirely in Spanish. So far I've only attained that level of fluency in 5 languages - English, Mandarin, French, Spanish and Welsh. But Spanish was the only one I never took an exam in, even for Welsh, I've had lessons and taken some exams. But right now, I'm learning Cantonese as it's a lowest hanging fruit for me given how close to Mandarin it is.

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    29. Hey I wish to master French but now I am considering Bahasa Indonesian as the lowest hanging fruit. Cantonese is not difficult to understand just to pronounce.

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    30. Hey Alex. That's a very interesting story for how you learned French. It's true that unlike reading something in your own language, a new language is "long lasting entertainment" because it can take many hours to master. Oh I'm not surprised about the listening comprehension, French pronunciation is not phonetic like most languages, e.g German, Italian, Spanish. The same could be said for English, in primary school kids learn the difference between bough, through, tough. I'm gonna see if there's a language center for Spanish near me. There must be because there's a sizable Latino population in the US, and Spanish is taught in schools though most people forget it.

      The thing I've always struggled in Mandarin with is the tones, because maybe I'm tone deaf and four different tones is too much. But Cantonese has 7 tones, wow. Though it would help to get around Hong Kong or parts of Southern China without a guide.

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    31. Oh the reason why I am learning Cantonese is because I know my company has some clients in HK and I'll be going there to meet them - they speak English and Mandarin as well, but I don't want to be the lazy foreigner who expects everyone to speak English for me. In business, we don't learn the language to simply communicate when people can do that with English - we do it to establish rapport and build relationships. So even though the clients in HK speak English perfectly well, the fact that I will be able to speak some Cantonese would make establishing rapport a lot easier. I already speak English for HK and Mandarin for Southern China anyway, so it's not like I need Cantonese for traveling but it's just what I do - I'm Mr 'Social Skills' and a huge part of that is establishing rapport with people you wanna do business with.

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    32. I was just talking about this with my boss as well, I speak German and Dutch as well (not fluently but quite well to advanced standard). German and Dutch people tend to speak English very well and it's not like I'm trying to communicate with clients who don't speak English but rather I use it as a social tool to establish rapport, so the client remembers me as the Dutch/German speaking Chinese guy (not many of us in the business) and that makes me stand out in a crowded market. Again, working class people are lazy - they do the bare minimum because it serves a purpose. "I need to learn English to get a job, to pay the bills so my family won't starve." Whereas rich intellectuals go above and beyond to do something like that to fulfil a higher order desire to prove a point, such as by using social skills, language, culture to establish rapport. That's why working class people like my mother would just roll her eyes and say, "they already speak English, why not just use English to speak to them? Why are you spending so many hours learning something new?" My answer is because I can and because knowledge is power - being able to do so proves I am smart not just to them but to myself, it is how I establish rapport, build relationships and win trust from these clients. My mother would think it was unnecessary but would she be able to teach herself a brand new language like Spanish or Dutch on her own? Of course not, she's not smart enough to do so - hence instead of admitting "I am too stupid to do that", she instead says, "but that's just not necessary if the other party already speaks English."

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    33. @LIFT, as I was mentioning, my CEO believes that the international language is English so I should use an English website and marketing deck to reach out to my clients. I, of course, am strongly opposed to it.

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    34. Oh I think that's great you study multiple languages in order to connect with clients better. It reminds me of Otto von Habsburg, the last crown prince of Austria-Hungary whose mother taught him many languages because she thought he would rule over multiple kinds of people one day. And he did, as one of the earliest EU politicians. It also makes me think of Napoleon's brother Louis who was given the Netherlands to rule. He didn't speak any Dutch when he started, so he learned the language and started calling himself "Lodewijk I" in order to show respect to his subjects. I grew up in an international school, and there was never a bigger compliment than to learn about someone else' culture and what music or tv shows are popular there. And it's a lot more sincere if you try to pick up their language as well to understand the cultural context better, because with language makes it easier to tell country-specific jokes too.

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  2. I just saw this shots and thought I share this: https://youtube.com/shorts/S88RtYBSD-A?feature=share

    I always believe this to be the reason why old wealth is understated. They are "post-luxury".

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