Yes there are far fewer options for those who do fall through the gaps with mediocre grades, with the wrong mix of Bs, Cs and Ds, you probably wouldn't make the cut for the more popular courses at NUS. And of course, there's a difference between someone who missed the cut by a little as opposed to someone who missed by a mile. I always point out that there is the option to resit one's A levels if you really feel that the grades you obtained simply do not reflect your true ability - but that's a gamble of course, there's no guarantee that you may get better grades even if you do try again. Thus if you're a mediocre, average student with Bs, Cs and Ds and you cannot get into the course of your choice at NUS/NTU/SMU, then you still do have quite a few options before applying to SIM. Apart from hitting the reset button by retaking your A levels, you can also simply settle for a course that may not be your first choice but would still enable you to study at somewhere like NUS, bearing in mind that you often do not use what you have studied at university in your job - it is just really getting a degree for the sake of proving you're worthy of being a graduate from a reputable university. Be flexible with your career plans and take plenty of other courses outside your university to improve yourself. The world will be a very different place in a few years and just accept that it is nearly impossible to study everything you need at university to prepare yourself for the working world. Heck, you'll probably forget most of the stuff you study anyway.
The other option which many people don't think about is to go down a far more niche path and gain specialist training in technical areas which will lead to a qualification that may not be a degree, but it will turn you into an expert in your field. Many people shun this path because their parents expect them to get a degree - but what is the point of a degree at the end of the day? Should it be just a stepping stone to help you get a good job, which is the ultimate goal? But if you can achieve that ultimate goal via an alternative path, then why would you need that degree anyway? Do you really need a degree for it? Take something like Cryptocurrency for example - it is hard to read the financial section of any newspaper without hearing something about Cryptocurrency and clearly, the people who pioneered this technology didn't learn about it at university. Whilst many universities are rushing to include Cryptocurrency in their syllabus now or even offering degrees in Blockchain, given how fast this whole area is progressing, it is clear that anything you study in university as a freshman is probably going to be obsolete by the time you graduate and start looking for a job - so you're no better off than someone with a totally irrelevant degree but is very willing to apply himself and learn about this kind of technology.
"Not all the people who end up at the top universities are the smartest - quite a few of them are rich kids who parents have given them an unfair advantage. They get everything they need from private tuition, specialist help and even the domestic situation is different - they have maids to ensure that they don't ever need to even wash a teacup and so they can dedicate all their time to studying. Kids from poorer families don't have access to all that expensive, specialist help in the form of private tuition and often have difficult domestic situations, like they will almost certainly have to help with the housework, take care of young siblings or grandparents or even work part time to help pay the bills. The rich kids get driven to school each morning whilst the poor kids have to wake up early to get the bus or MRT - so that means they get more sleep the night before. Surely just looking at results or the ranking of the university does not give you a full picture or the context behind each candidate's story."
Whilst that is totally true, some universities do make provisions for borderline cases - there are cases whereby teachers can write a strong letter of support for a student who has come from a very difficult background, but let's be clear about this: the university will accept the student if it is a near miss, after taking into consideration the student's background. But if the student has missed by a very long way, then there's no way any amount of justification can make up that difference. The onus is then on the gatekeeper to look at the bigger picture, beyond the grades - to see if the candidate has developed skills in other areas like teamwork, leadership, sports, volunteer/charity work and other areas outside the curriculum. But of course, if the student has got to rush home each day after school to take care of a very sick grandparent, then that poor student simply doesn't have the opportunity to say pursue sports, music, drama or even have much of a social life outside school - so having been deprived of those opportunities, his CV isn't going to shine like that rich kid who has had all the time in the world to do everything from tennis to Japanese language lessons to violin to drama classes. When I put it that way, of course it is definitely unfair! Yeah, on paper, it is very hard to create a CV as brilliant as your average rich kid if you're poor and just didn't have those opportunities, but wait there is a silver lining.
"The A levels in other countries like the UK are easier than in Singapore - rich kids get an unfair advantage because they get to take the easier route by doing their A levels in the UK whilst poor kids like me are stuck in Singapore doing the harder Singaporean version. So these rich kids have a far better chance of getting into a good university than their poorer Singaporean counterparts. It's not fair - the odds are stacked against us."
As one of my regular readers Choaniki has pointed out, the Singaporean O levels and A levels system has been delinked with the British system way back in 2006 and 2002 respectively. He has also pointed out that the UK system does suffer from grade inflation, which is also true. But what you seem to assume is that the people working at the admissions department are idiots - that's where the whole argument of 'an easier route' falls apart. Here's how admissions are handled in the UCAS system here in the UK, each candidate gets an offer upon application - it could be unconditional or conditional, like "score AAB and you have secured your place." So if the UK system is really easier, then the university would ask the British student for AAA whilst asking the Singaporean student for AAB or ABB. It is not like there's a one size fits all approach when it comes to admissions since universities receive applicants from all over the world from America to China to Italy to Namibia including from countries where they use a completely different system which isn't directly comparable or compatible with the British A levels system. Therefore every application will be treated as a unique case and judged on its own merits, taking into account the different kind of local system of the country of each student.
Once again, I would caution against anecdotal evidence. The one thing the UK is very good at is education - if you're rich, you can buy a much better quality of education at one of the private schools where you have everything from the best teachers, much smaller classroom sizes, the best labs and IT facilities to country club style premises. Now if you were to compare that to your average JC in Singapore, it is a world away - even though Raffles Institution is very nice, it's still a world away from these schools in the UK which charge up to £34,300. There are quite a number of super-elite schools in the UK (Tonbridge School, Eton, Westminster, Malborough etc) which charge those kinds of fees and you get what you pay for. Their students are very rich but not necessarily that smart - these schools have a challenging task of getting their students into top university and the formula they follow isn't rocket science: they are very good at identifying which subjects the students are good at and more importantly, which subjects the students suck at. You only need three A level subjects at the end of the day and often in Singapore, little thought goes into the process. For example, it is just assumed that all students must do some kind of maths as that would be useful regardless whether or not the student has any aptitude for it. In Singapore, either the kids or their parents choose their subjects and they are allowed to pursue it.
There could be a lot of reasons why a student doesn't do well in their studies in Singapore and stupidity is just one of many possible reasons: few people are so intelligent they can excel in all subjects equally, most of us find some subjects easy whilst we struggle with others and that's completely normal. It isn't that uncommon to find yourself in a situation whereby you take a subject only to regret it later when you find you just don't like it or that it is a lot harder than it is. I say it is far better to cut your losses at that stage and switch subjects rather than struggle on for two years only to end up with poor results for it at the A level exams. Hence when a rich Singaporean transfers to a posh UK school, they're effectively hitting the reset button and the teachers there can then pick the lowest hanging fruit - the most suitable three subjects for that student that is mostly like to deliver the best possible results. After all, these schools realize that it is more important to get the straight As then to pick a 'useful subject' - the straight As will get you into a good university, a C or D in something like economics or maths is only going to be a nasty stain on your record. Yet so many dumb parents believe that studying those subjects will give you "useful knowledge"! So don't hate the player, hate the game: if you haven't played the game well enough, then you only have yourself to blame for not having understood the rules in the first place.
"I am more in the camp that with the right mentors, one can cultivate the appropriate attitudes towards life. The course content is like a "playground" for one to train the student. But the student must realize that the course content is just a "playground", and that employers are more concerned about what else can the student bring to the company. Because if it is just only the course content, the employer might as well, employ the teacher, who is much more well-versed in the content, compared to the student. And the fact that teacher is not being employed by the employer, speaks a lot more about the situation."
OMFG, this comment so totally hits the nail on the head. I think there is a lot of immaturity amongst the students. I remember once witnessing a mother and her daughter at a food court, I think the girl was about 8 years old or so and she was trying to tell her mother every minute detail of what happened that day in school. I could tell that the mother was getting really bored but trying not to show it. I think she must have tuned out at some stage because the daughter took out some drawing that she made in school that day, the mother asked, "oh that's nice, what is that drawing for?" And the daughter got angry, "Mummy! I already told you what it was for!" Yeah, that daughter expects her mother to give a shit about everything she did in school because she had put in a lot of effort to be a good student, but please don't expect us gatekeepers to have the patience of that doting mother. I did cover this in my last post when I made it clear that even though some of the private universities may have made big improvements to their course content and structure, at the end of the day, it isn't the course content that we're that fussed about as employers - we're looking at the bigger picture.
"Aren't you being really harsh, even unfair when it comes to judging young people who have made a mistake in not having studied hard enough to get the right grades to go to a good university? Weren't we all young, immature and silly as teenagers? We're not the same people in our 20s when we enter the workforce, yet you are focusing on that one period much earlier in their lives. Judge them as the adults they are today, not the teenagers they were 10 years ago. How far back are you going to go - will you look at their PSLE results?"
I beg to differ. I don't believe we were all young and dumb at 16-17. I have seen 9 year olds with a stunning degree of maturity and I've seen 25 year olds acting like dumb kids. Whether you end up with a good or bad attitude really depends on your upbringing: the way were nurtured in your younger days - your parents will be the main determinant of that, but otherwise you have teachers, coaches, other uncles & aunties along the way as well as older siblings/cousin who will set the mould for your young mind. Growing up, acquiring a good attitude is not something automatic like the onset of puberty, no the emotional process is quite complex and that's why we have a range of different kinds of attitudes out there - some good, some bad but not all the same. Now can someone who is immature at 16 or 17 years old grow up and attain a better attitude by the time they reach employment age in their 20s? Yes, that is entirely possible. But I'm not just looking for faults - I'm also looking for candidates who have had the (unfair) advantage of a really good upbringing, so they already have the right kind of professional attitude for work. If you have had really good parents who didn't neglect you, then you wouldn't have been left to make silly mistakes the way "young and dumb" kids do when they are left to their own devices. The responsible parents would just wade in and say, "no you're not doing that, don't be stupid"
Well of course it is unfair! The best advantage anyone can have in life is to have good parents who do care and want to nurture their children well. The teenagers who have gone on and done incredible things by the time they were 14 or 15, guess what? They probably had quite a lot of help along the way - Nadia didn't teach herself gymnastics, no her coaches at the Romanian national training center did. Then you have the case of Laura Dekker - the youngest person to have sailed solo around the world, she did that at the age of 16. Did this desire to achieve something like that come out of the blue? No, her parents were avid sailing enthusiasts and she was born in New Zealand during a 7-year sailing trip around the world by her parents and she spent the first 5 years of her life at sea. You could almost say that sailing is in her blood and it would have been surprising if she completely turned her back on sailing as she grew up. Then there's American actress Tori Spelling who is best known for her role as Donna on Beverley Hills 90210 which was produced by her father, Aaron Spelling. But that wasn't her first role - no, her dad put her in loads of other shows as a child actor. Yeah, talk about nepotism. And as for those of us who don't have parents who were able to even point us in the right direction when we were young, gosh we then hope that we can encounter teachers at school who will care about us enough to help us.
You provided your readers a very important reminder about life, even though I wonder how many of them will listen to you. Want to complain how unfair is it that rich kids have more access to life opportunities, like entry to overseas education? How could anyone here miss out on how odds are stacked against Singaporean guys like us who have to miss out two years of our lives because of NS? Being in Japan doing my graduate studies now, people who have no clue about Singapore's mandatory conscription scheme thought that I was a "ronin" (Japanese word for high school students who fail to enter college and have to stay back) back in Singapore for 2-3 years! Many Singaporeans can complain so much about the current circumstances, but don't realize that things can still become better if they take charge of their lives.
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing Marvin: yes they know that life is unfair, but they also expect people in authority (from teachers to universities to employers etc) to somehow wanna police this inherent injustice and try to fix it in whatever small way we can, for example, by hiring the graduate from SIM instead of the one from a better university to give that poor guy a break.
DeleteI'm sure at some level at the government, yeah improving social mobility is an issue for any government and there needs to be schemes to help those from the bottom of the social hierarchy to get ahead in life, through various schemes starting from early intervention when they are in school right through to helping the elderly. But I can't help but feel that this is something that the government needs to do, rather than expecting individuals like myself to do. Sure there are times, with certain issues, individuals should make an effort - I recycle and try to do all things Green for the sake of the environment, so perhaps these people are thinking, "you care enough to recycle your plastic bottles, why can't you care enough to help a poor person from a deprived background?"
Part 1
DeleteWith regards to Marvin's "how many of [these people] would listen to you", I think it'll be difficult for them to accept what's been said. I doubt many aren't acutely aware of their own screw-ups and faults, but like LIFT mentioned, where do they go from there? People who enter SIM or private colleges- I do think a number of them are simply trying to make the best of their situation, because they know they can't turn back the past.
The problem comes in when despite their best efforts now, they're still not on par with their NUS/NTU/any unis with higher employer reputations, and in the end their efforts seem futile. It fosters a sense of helplessness and self-doubt. They know there's something they're doing wrong, but they might not know what, without - like you said - someone there to point it out and show them how they can improve. It's not uncommon for people to sometimes think "I wish I weren't in this situation." and to wish for a solution, any solution, because the ones they've been trying to make happen aren't working. This manifests in the form of complaints that "Life's unfair!" and well, at times it's a lot easier to hope - regardless of reality - that those around them might grant them a second chance and see them as humans, beyond the achievements they do not have.
This isn't an excuse for their unrealistic expectations (I don't think many proponents of the bolded arguments in your article have kept in perspective the nature of a gatekeeper's job scope...), but I hope it might explain why they're feeling/thinking this way. I can't be 100% certain, so I'd appreciate if anyone else has input on this.
My point is, LIFT, I don't think pointing out the bad cards that these guys might have been dealt with (e.g. lack of mentors, rich parents, etc.) would convince them of your arguments, no matter how valid, because they already know this. The important part I believe 'Or you can say, "Okay, I had a bad start but I'm willing to make up for it - tell me what I have to do and I will do it."' seems grossly overshadowed by your many previous paragraphs. I'd be curious to hear more on this statement. You've told your readers what you do expect to see - 'hunger in the candidate, that willingness to do whatever it takes to get ahead, that eagerness to learn' - but how do these people get there? What do they have to do, beyond all that they're already trying in their current and not-as-fortunate circumstances?
Part 2
DeleteAs for whether the responsibility of issues such as environmental problems and social mobility should be undertaken by individuals in addition to the government... it truly depends on our own personal experiences and values. Environmental causes can't progress without implementing government policies (because that's one of the most effective ways to enact long term, large scale changes), and there is often the belief that individual action can't compare with that. But why do you still recycle your bottles? It's because one bottle recycled = one percentage less of greenhouse gas produced, one less item stuck in the bellies of our birds, one less piece of trash in our landfills. Every action does have its consequence, no matter how minor. This consequence could the life or death for that animal, and it is still one out of the many necessary steps towards protecting our environment.
The same goes for social issues, I believe. Government efforts are definitely vital, but it doesn't change the fact that behind the statistics is a whole lot of human beings, each and every one with ups and downs, family and friends, hopes and dreams and fears- a story, just like you and I have. If we grant just one person a second chance (it doesn't have to be you, if you're bothered by the conflict of interest with your job, but if you do), it could mean a world of difference to that person. On improving social mobility, one individual contribution is still much better than none.
Do you sympathise with these people and causes enough to care to help them? It's definitely up to the individual, but not something the government should be expected to handle alone.
Thank you for reading. I accidentally wrote an essay and I'm not sure if I got all my desired points across clearly, but these are my thoughts.
Hello Avery! Many thanks for your thoughtful and lengthy response. I love these thought provoking arguments and I'd like to respond to your piece, if I may. I'm going to use bullet points to try to categorize my rambling thoughts.
Delete1. I have had a similar conversation with someone at the gym last night who drove me nuts. As an adult trying to learn gymnastics, of course it is going to be hard for him and he kept giving in to the "OMFG I am going to fall on my head, break my neck and die". Everything was scary, everything was too difficult, he was so close to picking up his bag and running for the emergency exit. There were two excellent, experienced coaches trying to explain to him what he had to do and if he only listened, he would have realized exactly what he had to do to do that skill safely, it wasn't difficult at all. But the problem was that he didn't listen - some people have that major problem, it's not that they are stupid, but I am not sure I even have the right word for it. He just had a really negative attitude when it came to learning and it wasn't like he didn't have the right instruction, advice or encouragement - his mind was shutting it all out and he chose to give in to negativity. I can only summarize as having a bad attitude, or being a bad student - because he made it impossible to teach or help him. I'm sure what I am describing isn't that unique - these people are being held back by their own pessimistic attitudes and even when you try to encourage them, it is like banging your head against the wall.
Pessimist: I can't do that skill, I don't have the shoulder flexibility.
Me: This skill doesn't require flexibility because you turn the rings out and you swing right through.
Pessimist: Well... I am not strong enough to do it.
Me: This skill doesn't require strength as you swing into it, you don't use any strength, the momentum of your swing does the work.
Pessimist: Well... I can't do it because...
Me: You're trying to find excuses instead of listening to a word I am saying!
I really don't know what to do with people who have such incredibly negative, pessimistic attitudes. Even if I try to help them, the help is often rejected and when I try to be optimistic, they tell me I am not trying to understand how hard it is for them etc. They just want sympathy, but what good is that going to do for them?
2. Ref: Hunger
I love that Les Brown story about becoming a DJ. I don't expect these candidates to have won an Olympic gold medal, I just want a story for them to prove to me that they have a positive, can-do attitude, that will make them good team players in the office. Take that pessimistic guy from my gym last night - he has a job but I have no idea how he keeps it because he has an awful attitude. Imagine if I was his boss and I asked him to solve a problem at work - instead of getting solutions, I'll probably get 100 excuses why the problem couldn't be solved and why it was not his fault. For crying out aloud, I just want someone with a good attitude. So you see, when I am in the gym and I am training with my friends, I get to see up close how they learn and approach a challenge, it's actually quite an eye opener - people with positive, optimistic attitudes are in the minority and more people have terrible attitudes than you think. I'm not even judging them by whether they actually master the skill or not, I'm just judging them by their attitude. If you have such a bad attitude, then you may as well give up because you don't believe you'll succeed.
So yes, in short, I wanna see evidence of a good attitude. That's all. I can't spend time hanging out with all my candidates (it's just not possible), so just give me evidence of an instance where you have accomplished something and it was mostly down to you good attitude, just like Les Brown.
3. Charity, recycling plastic bottles and helping people
DeleteThe rationale I have for recycling is pretty much as you described - however, when it comes to hiring someone, it is quite different. So following on from the previous point, if I felt sorry for someone who has had a terrible childhood like me and gave him a job, but he turns up for work each day give a really pessimistic, negative attitude. When I ask for solutions, he gives me excuses - I'm sorry but I can't help someone like that and I don't want to help someone like that. I want to help someone who will be grateful for the opportunity and tell me, "you won't regret giving me this chance!" Well, because that's exactly what I have done in the past - whenever someone has given me a chance, I would throw myself into the task, work as hard as I can with a very, very positive, optimistic and can-do attitude! I am frustrated that so many people focus on how hard they have worked but they never talk about whether or not they had the right attitude. The guy in my gym who has that terrible attitude? He trains hard, but he never progresses or learns anything new quickly because he is always holding himself back. Look, I am not some kind of goddess of mercy here to right the wrongs of the world, I am limited in what I can do in my capacity as a gatekeeper but when the opportunity presents itself, when I do get someone with a good attitude then I think, yeah you deserve a chance because you're willing to help yourself.
This is where I clash with my left-wing friends who think that everyone who is poor, deprived and beaten down deserve help - whereas I think that you only deserve help if you are willing to prove to the powers to be that you're not going to squander that opportunity, that's all. It's not an unreasonable request methinks. Thus you can see why this is different from recycling plastic bottles - I just can't stand people with bad attitudes. Perhaps that's harsh but I'm just being honest.
What do you make of this issue about having a good attitude? I acknowledge that if you came from a happy, wealthy family and had a good, happy childhood, then sure it is easy to have a positive, optimistic outlook in life as you've always tasted happiness. But when you grew up with all the odds stacked against you, it's only too easy to give in to negativity. That I understand, of course, I came from a very difficult background and had a tough childhood myself. But I have also seen people give up on themselves because they gave in to this negativity and it only leads to self-destruction, so don't expect me to tolerate that kind of attitude. It doesn't help anyone.
4. Oh and the guy with the negative, pessimistic attitude? He wasn't from a poor family or had a tough childhood. Quite the opposite, he was from a well to do family where his parents doted on him, gave him everything he wanted and perhaps over-indulged him a bit too much. His parents were always there for him: do want to go to university? Tell mummy which one and we'll pay for it. You want a car? Tell daddy what brand, what colour and he'll sort it out for you. You wanna buy a house? How much will it cost, do you need help with the downpayment - just tell mummy and daddy. You get the idea, so whenever he encountered anything too difficult as a child, he'll go running to mummy with tears in his eyes and his mummy will be like, "oh darling, dearest, you don't have to do it if it upsets you so much, it's okay, come give mummy a hug." With parents who are so loving, I can see how kids like that have no hunger. They are never pushed to try very hard the way, say an evil Soviet gymnastics coach would make his team train so hard in preparations for the Olympic games. So we can't blame poverty as the root of 'bad attitudes', loads of rich kids can end up with lousy attitudes too if they have been allowed to been too comfortable in their childhood. Knowing this guy, he'll go running to his mummy and his mother will be like, "oh darling, dearest, gymnastics is too hard, shall we go play golf instead? Mummy will buy you a set of the best golf clubs out there and you'll look as pro as Tiger Woods." See? There's more than one way to end up with a rotten attitude.
DeleteHello LIFT! Thanks so much for your response. Below's mine:
DeleteI think a good attitude can be trained. To me, it's a matter of habits - of being aware of your pattern of thought, and consciously ensuring that your mind thinks that way until it becomes instinctual. But not everyone's aware of something like that, I think, not unless someone else is patient and bothers enough to teach them. Especially since such habits take quite some time to form, and it's hella easy to relapse into, as you say, negativity and self-destruction.
There's nothing wrong with not hiring people like that, in the interest of the company and yourself (I would greatly prefer not to have downers as colleagues either). One can't fault an organisation for wanting the best people for themselves.
Instead of in hiring, what about with friends? I think that's the perspective where most of my opinions in my previous responses were coming from. Some people I know tend to think pessimistically, reinforced by years of similarly negative family members, of having been unable to succeed in an education system with fairly rigid definitions of success, etc. Even acquaintances - some of the poorer kids at my martial arts class don't have great attitudes either. I still do my best to ensure my interactions with them are positive and encouraging.
Not exactly in the way you did with the pessimistic gymnast, i.e. them giving an excuse and you debunking that excuse. It usually starts off with me asking why they believe in their reason, e.g. they don't have shoulder flexibility/strength/etc, regardless of that reason's validity/logic. I don't raise my voice, I don't stand up and argue, and I'm not gonna call them out on their excuses to their face. Many would get defensive and stop listening, which is normal.
Besides, listening to their opinions and asking why? I am expressing my sympathy on and trying to understand how hard it is for them (even if I don't agree), and perhaps I may gain insight into the way they think from their answers. Gradually, I can shift the conversation to a point where I can suggest a different way of thinking without raising their hackles. It's kind of hard to describe it, but the key is patience. Lots of patience, and an open mind. I've got to keep in mind there are things I don't understand about them that led them to their current behaviour.
Part 2
DeleteI definitely can't do this for everybody I meet, but I think it's what I hoped someone had done with me when I was younger, and it's perhaps what these commenters hope for as well. I am indeed from a fortunate family, with parents who cared, financial security, good school, etc., but it didn't change the fact that I had low self-esteem, felt as though studying was the only skill I had (and not even one of the best) and had a general sense of confusion as to how the world worked. I gave tons of excuses for my shortcomings. Couldn't develop a hobby? That's because my mom said no. Can't get that A for Math? I'm not mathematically-inclined enough.
Naturally, people around me didn't accept that behaviour, and told me so. Back then, however, I didn't care if people tolerated it; the only thing I could focus on was for my emotions to be acknowledged, for someone, anyone, to tell me I wasn't any less of a person to have these feelings (it sure hadn't felt right for me to have them, given that I was materialistically comfortable). It was only after coming across articles on the web then did I realise so, and find it was only what I did with these emotions that mattered. After I'd come to accept myself then did I begin to accept the reality around me. Without the former, I couldn't assess the latter objectively. I think that is what 'teens are young and dumb' partly entails. They can be brainiacs and be Olympic champions, but ultimately, many still have little experience in understanding not just the world, but also themselves.
Tldr: Regarding this concept: 'You only deserve help if you are willing to prove to the powers to be that you're not going to squander that opportunity', sure, I'd accept that in the situation where someone's hiring another, but not during everyday circumstances. That argument is contingent on the notion that the person is aware this is an opportunity AND sees its value, which they might not given their current state of mind. Does it mean they don't deserve help/guidance at all in effectively changing that attitude? It doesn't have to come from you when you're doing your job as a gatekeeper, but it's possible to come from you when you're not a gatekeeper, such as say, when you're on this blog.
I think, otherwise, you might be hearing the same arguments from the same commenters for many articles to come.
But here's the problem with people with bad attitudes, asking them to change their attitude is impossible - there's a huge element of the Dunning-Kruger at work here. They refuse to admit that they are in the wrong and won't take responsibility for it. What do we do, how can we help them then?
DeleteYeah, I don't know much about the Dunning-Kruger, but I don't think simply requesting somebody change their bad attitude would work either.
DeleteSetting an example for them to follow might yield better results, instead of only giving advice or telling them what they're doing wrong. I know my behaviour improved after I 1) improved my self-worth, and 2) realised I wanted the outcomes that others with 'good attitudes' had, more than I wanted to wallow in self-pity (because that hadn't gotten me anywhere). I saw first hand what others had and did to get there, so I began to try and follow. But I had to know such people first, who had to be willing to put up with my shitty attitude in the first place, and then I had to want what they had enough to decide to change.
Methinks when somebody has a poor attitude, showing you're attempting to understand their perspective and circumstances would let them be more willing to see you as a role model. LIFT, you've got lessons to share which people with poor mindsets/behaviours would do well to learn from and emulate. But from personal experience, scolding/insisting they're wrong/aggressive responses (at least, this is the vibe I'm getting; please correct me if I'm wrong) often closes people off to your ideas, regardless of its legitimacy. I don't think it's the wrong thing to do, but I'm not sure if it's effective in changing their minds?
What do you think? And sorry about the delayed response. I was pretty busy the past few days. I've no idea how you respond so quickly, but thanks for doing so.
Hi, I would just like to respond to an old blog post of yours "Q&A: What is wrong with degrees from private universities?"
DeleteCould you give a source for the claim that SIM students are graded on a bell curve?
This article is quite strong evidence against the claim.
http://www.sim.edu.sg/News/lh/Pages/Highest-number-of-First-Class-Honours-to-date-for-SIM-UOL-graduates.aspx
It would be extremely weird for universities to celebrate ever increasing numbers of 1st class honours graduates if they are the ones moderating the grades of the students.
Secondly, it's a bit weird how often IQ is mentioned in these education articles on this blog. The problem with IQ in general is that it isn't the only measure of academic success.
From this article: http://www.pnas.org/content/113/47/13354#sec-5
"Measures of personality predict achievement test scores and grades above and beyond IQ scores. Analyses using scores on achievement tests and grades as proxies for IQ conflate the effects of IQ with the effects of personality. Both measures have greater predictive power than IQ and personality alone, because they embody extra dimensions of personality not captured by our measures."
IQ is 'important' to a certain extent. You probably can't have an IQ of 70 and expect to be independent, let alone hold a complex job. But beyond a certain point, personality certainly plays a much larger role than IQ(as stated in the article i quoted). Intuitively speaking, that is the case. If you work in a job, chances are personality would have carried you much further than raw intelligence. Without traits like perseverance, one wouldn't be in a job for long. Without good mental health, one would certainly burn out in a really short period of time.
The last and final point is, if IQ is the main driver of everything that you've referenced in the Jan 2016 blog post of yours, then why isn't an IQ test used widely in the working world? Why would degrees be relevant at all, since all they are is a derivative of IQ?
I apologize if any of these questions have been dealt with before.
Hello and thanks for your questions - allow me to give you some answers.
Delete1. The problem that SIM students cannot run away from is the low level of entry - practically any idiot can start a course with them as long as they can pay the fees, unlike say NUS or Oxford, where the entry requirements are very strict and they accept only students who meet a very high standard. So even if the SIM students are graded fairly as you have postulated, the question that still needs to be answered is this: why did they end up there in the first place? What went so terribly wrong for them to have ended up there in SIM and not say, NUS?
2. IQ does give students an unfair advantage when it comes to learning - if you have a high IQ, you could probably figure out complex concepts in physics or maths a lot quicker than someone with a low IQ. The person with the lower IQ can still achieve the same results but probably has to put in 10 times more effort. Yeah life isn't fair, I have met people who have slept through their maths lessons but somehow still end up with As as their brains somehow just figure it out whilst there are others who still struggle to pass even after a lot of tuition. It is an extremely unfair advantage to have a high IQ, as the title suggests: life is bloody unfair. So companies want to hire such people with high IQs for certain jobs as they will be able to climb steep learning curves a lot more quickly in the training process compared to someone with a lower IQ.
3. Yes there are certain aspects which are as important as IQ such as EQ (or personality as you desribed). Of course that is important as well. Which brings us neatly to the next and last point.
4. There are few good jobs out there but many highly qualified, highly intelligent applicants. I don't just want to hire someone with high IQ, but someone who can prove to me that they know how to figure out the rules, understand how the game is played and come up on top after having understood the whole process. That shows a kind of maturity, a kind of awareness that goes waaaay beyond IQ. I am not running a charity to help smart people who have had a hard time getting started in life, I am not here to help smart people who have not been dealt a fair hand in life or have had bad luck. I am here to hire people who have shown me that they make their own luck by playing to their strengths and maximizing whatever opportunities they have been given. And thus by showing at a young age that they understand how to make the most of their education, that shows a willingness to understand the rules, play by the rules and win the game according to the rules - now you may criticize that to be a very Singaporean approach to 'rules', but in business, you've got to understand what the rules are before you try to break them. It tells me whether the individual is even aware of the society they inhabit or if they are lost in a world of their own with their heads in the clouds.
Hi LIFT, i am interested to hear about your thoughts on the recent Malaysia election.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I can't cover it for a few reasons, but mostly because I don't write about topics i don't know enough about - I am sure there will be plenty of bloggers who know far more about Malaysian politics than I do. I would have to start from scratch, start reading news reports etc, possibly read other bloggers before I can even form an opinion and given that I am on a business trip in China now, I can't do that, sorry.
DeleteNo problem, I understand.
DeleteMy own comment makes me recall the introduction speech my Course's Dean when I was enrolled. He mentioned that in the school, we will not be studying/learning Physics but learning to do/doing Physics.
ReplyDeleteIt was rather consistent of our mentors for our Course to not spoon-feed us with information.
Well, having a good mentor does help a lot in this process, few people actually recognize that - it is about being humble enough to say, I need help - teach me. Rather than thinking that all you need is to learn the knowledge from a syllabus and you will become invincible.
DeleteHi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteI made a bad mistake when I was a teenager. I joined the wrong course in my polytechnic, did not have interest in it, did not study hard enough and thus resulted in an average gpa. Now, I'm given 2 choices, uni of birmingham at sim or monash university. I didnt come from a rich family background so going overseas would no doubt put a financial strain on my parents. I know I have no one to blame except myself for my current situation. I'm lost and not sure which path I should take. Appreciate your valuable advice.
Hi Jasmine I am currently in Taiwan on a business trip hence the very short reply. What do you want to do with your career? what is your ambition? Neither option sounds good since you clearly have left yourself in a position where you don't have any good options left. Before I can tell you which is the least bad option, we need to consider what you wanna do with your life - that's the most important question at hand here - let's figure out how to get you where you wanna go, cos you're presenting me with two crappy, lousy options ; like how the hell am I supposed to point you in the right direction with the information you've given me? Neither options are even half decent. Let's start with what you wanna do, then work backwards from there okay?
DeleteHi LIFT,
DeleteThank you for taking the time to reply. I would like to work in the finance sector to be a chartered accountant. I know that that I can go for professional qualifications such as ACCA but I would very much prefer to take a degree as it would offer me with a variety of options. Friends have told me to go for the G08 universities in australia as it would offer me more opportunities as compared to sim.
Methinks ACCA is the one that would open up doors and a variety of options too, rather than a mediocre degree from a mediocre school, which leaves you a variety of options but no doors open.
DeleteHi Jasmine, sorry it took me a while to reply. I am back from Taiwan now and am slowly catching up. You need to focus on what you wanna do in the long run - if it is accountancy, then as Weiping has explained, the ACCA should open enough doors for you regardless of your degree. And as Weiping has also pointed out quite clearly, it is quite pointless to have a variety of options but doors are not going to open for you if people don't take your degree half seriously.
DeleteA degree from a shitty university doesn't leave you with much in terms of options and you have to be realistic, even if you do get a degree from a private university, you are always going to be at the back of the queue when competing against NUS graduates and those from much better universities. And as for your 'friends' giving you advice, that's fair enough, you are trying to gather information, which is good but I would caution you against talking to random people just in case they mislead you as they don't know what the heck they are talking about. The worst thing is that you may meet kind people who just wanna help despite not knowing anything about what is best for you - so they pass on half-truths, hearsay and bullshit that they may have gathered over the years and end up misleading you at the end of the day. Not that they wanna fuck you up, hell no, that's not their intention, but you're better off being a lot more careful about whose advice you take at the end of the day. OK?
Hi LIFT and Weiping,
DeleteThank you for the advices and for taking the time to reply. Utimately its how I path my way out to be an accountant and I believe ACCA would help me to open the doors if I'm fixated at being an accountant. I do think for those who are planning to go to private university or overseas university, they may fall short as compared to local graduates. However, I believe if they were to make good use of their present situation through securing internships, having relevant work experience, strong co-curricular activities as well as stellar grades. They might just be able to stand out from local graduates - after all a degree is more than just a piece of paper. Its a place where you could further develop your skills and develop yourself holistically.
True, everyone has their own say in these matters. Thus, I would need to think criticallly and weigh my options to decide which is better in terms of my current situation. I'm currently discussing with my parents as well as doing my own research to see which are in fact better for me in the long run.
Thank you once again for the gentle reminder.
Just out of curiousity Jasmine, what attracted you to accountancy? Rather unusual choice methinks. It strikes me as a rather boring tedious job. I am being painfully blunt here - I do have accountants working in my company and they are staring at spreadsheets all day, what they do is difficult, tedious, takes long hours and whilst they are financially rewarded for the valuable contribution they make, I'm like, woah that looks like hard work and not a lot of fun.
DeleteMy company is sending me to a conference in Barcelona next week - so I get the early flight in on the Monday, have the day to chill in Barcelona, 3 days conference, then on the last day, I check out, leave my bags at the hotel, have fun in Barcelona then get the night flight back. Super! But will the accountants go? Nope, they stay in the office, doing what they do best.
It will be interesting to here why young people like you wanna go down this path.
Hi LIFT,
DeleteSince young, I found myself good at numbers and routine work. My passion for numbers increasingly grow when I was exposed to accounting modules during my poly days. During my free time,I have also spent some time reading up on accounting on my own. Thus, I feel that accountancy is a good fit for me as I have the interest and passion in it.
I see, thank you for sharing your experiences with me. It does sound pretty interesting! Correct me if im wrong, but from reading your blog, you're working in the sales line of a finance company right?
You see Jasmine, you could have said the same about me. I was not so much good with mathematics per se, but I was fascinated with statistics which is the application of mathematics to make sense of big data sets. I remember when I was reading geography textbooks and there would be lists say of cities ranked according to their population sizes and I'd be fascinated with things like that, I'd create and compile my own lists. Yeah I was quite the geek like that as a student but did I want to pursue accountancy? No way.
DeleteI'm being totally blunt with you and I hope you'll excuse my honesty: accountancy is a boring job. There are accountants in my company, I see the kind of work they do and they're quite happy doing what they do of course, but I find it perplexing to see how anyone can have interest or passion in it. Don't get me wrong, it's a respectable well paid job, but it's anything but fun.
Why am I saying this? I get the feeling you're defaulting to the one thing you think you'll be good at - there's nothing wrong with sticking to what you know best, but would that bring you happiness? I'm always struggling with what I do, it's not come easily to me, I'm not sticking to what I do best - I often feel like a fish out of water but I have a lot more fun, it's a lot more rewarding and heck, I make a helluva lot of money doing what I do.
I am the salesman in my company - we have created some very complex financial instruments and somebody needs to go out there and sell it. I deal with institutions who can invest at least US$1m at a time, but typically, my deals come in at over US$10m.
I seee, I understand where you're coming from. I do think that its important to find a job that you have passion and altitude for and brings you happiness too. Hmm, I'm keeping my options open as well, as I'm sure ACCA can open quite a few paths other than an accountant. Thank you for advising me. I do think that its better to find a job that is rewarding to yourself as well as allow you to stretch beyond your full potential which I believe you have found. After all, a job is something that we be doing majority of our lives so I guess it all boils down to attitude- how we could find joy in our jobs.
DeleteNo, you're wrong, ACCA is really for people who wanna do accountancy as a career. It will NOT open quite a few other paths for you, you're totally wrong about that one. Sorry to be the mean one here, but I am going to put on my gatekeeper's hat and if I see someone spend all that time and effort getting an ACCA qualification and then not pursue accountancy, I would say, "well that was a stupid waste of your time and money, what the hell did you do that for if you weren't going to pursue accountancy?"
DeleteSo no, you're totally wrong about this. If you do pursue your ACCA qualifications, that's solely and only for accountancy as a career.
What I think you need to do is to get hold of an older accountant in their 40s and speak to them about accountancy as a career. Have you ever spoken to a real life accountant, like you know, a human being you can speak to? I think that would be the most logical and useful next step to help guide you. Cos right now, you're just making some really crazy and stupid assumptions that are totally wrong - sorry if this sounds harsh, but you're a teenager making crazy assumptions about stuff you know nothing about, like how can you expect to know all the answers?
Go find an adult accountant and speak to them about this. That's precisely what you need to do now.
Hi LIFT,
DeleteSorry if I misled you but what I mean is different areas in accountancy...yes I have spoken to an accountant recently and coupled with my own research has provided me an insight on what life as an accountant is like. I am also planning to speak to some career advisors soon.
Thank you once again for your advices.
Hi Jasmine, I am very glad you've managed to speak to some accountants.
DeleteI would point out that their insight is far more useful than anything a career advisor would tell you. At least I've met highly successful accountants who make a lot of money. I can't imagine anyone making that much money being a career advisor. Duh. Call me cynical. What kind of 'career' is that? Sounds pretty shit to me. How much can you get paid offering young people career advice?
Hi LIFT,
DeleteI'm not exactly sure about their pay but the career advisers are helpful in the sense that they helps students find out what they want to do and counsel them on questions pertaining to the work force or further studies to allow students to make informed decisions.
Sorry that was me being a complete bitch - by all means ask them for their opinion, it doesn't hurt to get help from a very wide group of people.
DeleteHi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteI did have the same ups and downs, given that when my O level results released this year, it was not to my own expectations at all. Good enough to get me into a discipline that I wanted, and I do agree that the same goes when it comes to this. Not getting what you want sometimes isn't the key, it's also how you try and make the best of things. I was able to choose on some level, and told my mother that I intended to do IT or engineering, mostly because I ruled out all the others because I knew I will not like it.
And it has worked out great, even though at times I feel inferior to a lot of my friends where many who scored much better than I did, and had far more options. But I think that it was godsend in its own way, as I could see that JC just wasn't suitable for someone like me, given how average my grades turned out to be twice during a national exam.
Now, I'm mostly trying to spend more time on the community, helping with social events about issues that I'm passionate about and enjoying my life in a poly. And I do empathize with them on a certain level, given that I have been in such a situation before but I do not think that it is a death sentence. It is also about accepting and trying to move forward from there, and knowing that the past is gone, all you can do is just to try and work towards the future.
Hi Dawningmoon, believe me, when you get into your 20s and then your 30s onwards, your results will become a distant memory from the past. I don't even remember my grades from my student days or even my university days cos they no longer matter at all - what does matter is how you make the most of what skills you have to offer in the working world and that is what will get you ahead in your career.
DeleteGood luck.