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Will your degree serve you well? |
However, that is no longer the case at university level - every university sets their own curriculum, decide what standards they want to set for their cohort and there isn't an overall body demanding that there is any kind of harmonization or equal standards across the board. So in this case, we turn to league tables to get a better understanding of how good or bad the universities are, relative to each other. The universities at the top of the league tables are notoriously hard to get into - you will need perfect results, have an outstanding record of activities beyond your studies and often, there will be a rigorous interview process as well. This is because the demand for places at these prestigious universities is so incredibly high that they can afford to raise the bar of entry to ensure that they will only get the very best students. In the UK, there are 127 universities in our league table. I would suggest that anything in the top ten is quite prestigious but anything in the top quarter of the league table is acceptable. The rankings do vary from year to year as the grading criteria change, but you're also dependent on the reputation of the university.
Need I state the obvious? The smartest students go to the universities at the top of the league table. The worst students who still want a degree end up at the universities at the bottom of the league table and as for the mediocre, average ones - well, they end up at the mediocre universities languishing in the middle of the league tables. Now you may argue that some mediocre universities or even those at the bottom of the league tables may have great programmes,superior teaching methods and excellent staff running the faculties - all that may be true but do we gatekeepers care about that? We don't give a shit, no - didn't you realize? We're not here to evaluate how good a university is performing or how well they teach, we're just here to make sure we hire intelligent candidates and reject the dumb ones so we're pretty much going by one criteria which trumps all the others: the entry standard. We making the assumption that a perfectly intelligent and rational student would always choose to go to a good university and not a bad one - so we'll always favor the candidates with a degree from a better university. This rather old-school approach needs to be coupled with further psychometric tests to ensure that we give everyone a fair chance, including those from universities that don't quite fit the mould - allow me to cite the case study of Loughborough University.
I am guessing that it will take a few years yet for Loughborough's reputation to catch up with their standards - perhaps in 5 or 10 years, demand for places at Loughborough would increase to the point where you would need much better grades to earn yourself a place there. Only then, would Loughborough truly take its places as a top-tier university in the UK when it can attract students who would pick Loughborough over another top ten university. Right now, it is at best a promising university which performs incredibly well despite only being able to attract rather mediocre students at best. Now before any students from Loughborough starts leaving bitchy comments below, I must state that I am only talking about the statistics from the league tables. Loughborough has the lowest entry standards in the top 10 and the second lowest in the top 20, there are even universities like Aberdeen (ranked 42nd), St George's (ranked 44th), Strathclyde (ranked 48th) which much higher entry standards. This is confusing to say the least: if Loughborough is such a good university (and they must be doing something right), then why isn't it attracting students of a higher standard? And if they are only receiving mediocre students, then what kind of miracle are they performing at that university to produce such great results? Likewise, why is Strathclyde University performing so poorly then? Oh dear.
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Yes students, we will judge you by your university |
Likewise, for the universities at the bottom of the league table - well, the entry standards are painfully low. Once you get beyond the 100th milestone, they would probably let in anyone who can pay the fees without even checking if they are toilet trained or can write their own name. It is that bad, the statistics speak for themselves - that is what ranking tables are for. These universities are one step away from the notorious degree mills where you can buy any degree you want without having to study and pass an exam. Yes you will have to attend courses at these university, but the standards of the exams are so low that they will basically pass anyone for turning up. Why anyone bothers going to these universities is beyond me as us gatekeepers are not stupid - we know when someone has gone to a crap university at the bottom of the league table. It takes us a few moments to check the league table rankings on Google for crying out aloud. I can only assume that the parents of these stupid kids are in complete denial about how much mockery and scorn graduates from such crap universities will be subject to in the real world.
After you graduate, you need to get a job and that's when you send off loads of applications, in hope for a job interview. Well guess who reads those applications? A gatekeeper, of which, I have been one - so I can tell you exactly what the process is from the gatekeeper's point of view. Whenever a vacancy for a good job appears, a gatekeeper will be flooded with applications from young people hoping to get that good job. Times are hard, anyone can get a low-level job working in Starbucks or McDonald's but if say you want to get into finance, it is bloody difficult and good opportunities are few and far in between. When the company selects a candidate, we have to pay the candidate during the first few months when we don't expect the candidate to generate too much revenue or add that much value to the business - that's okay, we don't expect everyone to hit the ground running from day one. There is usually a steep learning curve and most employers will be happy enough to give new employees at least a few months to climb that learning curve whilst paying them for their time to learn. In the meantime, the company will have to invest a lot of time and money in that new employee to ensure that s/he is able to do his job well. This is a normal process in recruitment.
Well, that's the plan at least. There are times when things just don't work out. A company can hire the wrong person who isn't suitable for the job - this wrong person fails to deliver (or for some reason is unhappy doing this job), struggles to fit in and has to leave after a few months. Now that's a disaster for the company because the company would have wasted a lot of time and money on this person who has just left and now, they have to start the recruitment process all over again. If that happens, the gatekeeper will be the one to blame for having allowed the wrong person to get the job. That is why gatekeepers are extremely risk-averse people because if they make a huge mistake like that, they could be fired because poor decisions like that cost the company a lot of money. The fact is your university has no freaking clue what job their students are going to end up doing once they graduate - so most of the time, none of the stuff you learn at university is relevant at all to what you end up doing in your job. Employers usually have to train up their new employees from scratch and all we want to know really, is that you are a intelligent, fast learner who can adapt to these new challenges and pick things new quickly. As for what you studied at university, quite frankly, I couldn't be less interested: it is completely irrelevant as far as I am concerned.
What does the choice of a candidate's university tell us? Well, to be blunt, let me state the obvious. We don't want to hire idiots and boy there are a lot of idiots out there. We want to hire someone who is intelligent and whilst exam results only demonstrate a certain facet of one's ability to learn and retain information, that's still a good place for us to start. The reality is that at the early stages, we have to start eliminating candidates to create a short list and having a degree from a university at the wrong end of the league table is the perfect excuse for a gatekeeper to eliminate a candidate at this stage. Why? Because this candidate has demonstrated that s/he hasn't been able to study hard enough to do well in an exam, that's why s/he ended up in a crap university. Yes, it is that cruel and blunt, especially when you're up against people from very good universities that only accept the very best students. When you have so many applicants for one position, it is pretty easy to reject those from crap universities.There will be other psychometric tests for candidates who make the shortlist, but you've got to make sure you do not fail at the first hurdle.
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How do I know if you're stupid or clever? |
A degree is meant to help you make the transition from being a student to working life - a good degree can set you up neatly for your first job, whilst a bad degree could mean that the odds will be against you. Many people are in denial about this harsh reality, but think about it this way: if you have to run a 10 km cross country race, would you rather be wearing the best running shoes from Nike or would you rather be wearing a really heavy pair of rubber boots? Bear in mind the fact that you will be racing against some runners who will be wearing the best running shoes money can buy, you'd really want to have a decent pair of shoes to wear for this race rather than wear the rubber boots. Talk about having the odds in your favour! You can further enhance those odds by proving that you're capable of functioning well in the work environment by amassing plenty of work experience and internships whilst you are a student - all this, to convince the gatekeeper that you're more than ready to become the ideal employee they are looking for.
Furthermore, we know what we're looking for in an ideal candidate - we'd like someone who knows how to think things through, take initiative, solve problems and come up with innovative solutions and make feasible long term plans. So if I were to come across a candidate with a degree from a crap university at the wrong end of the league table, I would be the first to ask a difficult question like, "why did you choose to do a degree at this university, given its ranking in the league tables? Was it a wise choice? You didn't think this one through, did you? You see, there's just no easy way to give a good answer to that question, that is the kind of question designed to stress a candidate out and see how well they perform under stress. If the candidate tried to defend their choice by highlighting the things they learnt at the university, then I would come back with a question like, "yeah but you could have done all that at a much better university, with a much more respectable ranking, then we wouldn't be having this conversation now. You messed up, admit it. I'm wondering if you're going to mess up like that if we hire you. What do you have to say about that?" The fact is nobody with straight As would deliberately choose to do a course at the wrong end of the league table.
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Why have the odds against you in life? |
I suppose if I was in that situation, I would own up and agree with the gatekeeper - that is the only way you take the sting out of the attack. By agreeing with the gatekeeper who's trying to provoke you, you're catching him off guard by surprising him. I would attack my own university and tell the gatekeeper exactly why it is a terrible university and why it was such a poor choice. Then I would plead the ignorance of youth, "look, I was young, I made a bad mistake - it was a poor error of judgement on my part but I'm no longer the same person today. I've done so much growing up whilst I was at university, I hope you will not judge me for that one bad choice I made all those years ago, but instead allow me to prove to you how I have grown and matured as a young adult in the last three years - I have made good use of my time at university working part-time, travelling around the world and doing internships. I wasn't going to rely on my university to teach me everything I needed to know to prepare me for the working world - no, rather I took the initiative to prepare myself. I've done everything I can to put things right, so I will not suffer the consequences of one poor decision I made when I was a teenager. Nobody is perfect, nobody can claim they have never ever made a poor decision before - we all have. But it is how we bounce back and recover from those situations that really matters."
The fact is you can look at the average earnings of Oxford graduates and compare that to the earnings of graduates from a university at the wrong end of the league table - it is clear that there will be a direct correlation between the ranking of the university and the earning power of the graduates. The pitfall that so many people fall into is trying to make an example of the exceptions to the case, "look, Mr Tan got a degree from SIM/Mr Tan didn't even go to university, yet he is such a rich and successful businessman today!" Sure, of course there are success stories of people who did succeed despite having had the odds stacked against them - but let's not pretend for a moment that it would make any sense trying to follow in their footsteps. The fact that these people triumphed against the odds proves at the very least that what they have done is highly unusual and hard to replicate - it would hardly be a good reason to try to follow in their footsteps and hope for the same outcome. Sure Mr Tan may have triumphed against the odds, but don't you think life would have been so much easier if he had been a graduate from Oxford? You can't argue with statistics and the way the odds are calculated. You can at best make a case that you are the exception to the norm.
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Are you the exception to the norm? |
Of course, all this can be avoided if you do get yourself a place in a university very near or at the top of the league tables. Some of you may argue that getting a degree from a top university doesn't guarantee a successful career - sure, but it can't hurt your chances; by the same token, getting a degree from a crap university doesn't necessarily doom you to a life time of failure, but the degree will not help you get ahead in life. I don't want to get too negative about this: if you do become a huge success in a few decades, it would be in spite of rather than because of that crap degree. Have you ever seen those people who run a marathon in a fancy, heavy and uncomfortable costume (see clip below) just to raise funds for charity? Yes it is possible to complete a marathon whilst being totally inappropriately dressed like that - but they complete the marathon in spite of the costume. It's the same thing with a crap degree, you're going to pay a lot of fees and spend 3 - 4 years at university anyway, then you may as well get a good degree,
Lastly, yes I know I am going to get a lot of hate from people who accuse me of being elitist. What I would say in response to that is that I'm merely telling you what the world is like - don't shoot the messenger for the message. Or to use another cliche: don't hate the player, hate the game. Such is the world we live in - sure there are kind people out there who are going to be nice and encourage you even if your academic track record resembles a train crash, but gatekeepers are not going to be one of those people. Don't mistake a gatekeeper for a kind grandparent who will be very kind and indulge you - we'll do quite the opposite and rip you apart for laughs. So unless you have a doting grandfather or uncle who's in a position to give you a well paid job (hey, nepotism goes a long way in a cruel and unfair world - just look at the Trump administration today), then at least be prepared to understand how these gatekeepers think because whether you like it or not, you are still going to have to face them each time you apply for a job.
I agree with all your points but i felt there was 1 point you left out. I am of the opinion that it is better to get a degree from a lower ranked university from a country who is the front-runner of your industry, rather than one from a higher ranked university in another country whose might not be so advanced.
ReplyDeleteRecently i was discussing with my classmates about choices on where to get our top-up degrees from, i mentioned that i was considering getting my Masters in Imaging Informatics from USC via distance learning. It is ranked around 20+ to 60+ in the US of A. I can't even find a university in the UK which offers a similar course. Even if i could find something related to Health Informatics in the top 10 in UK, i probably wouldn't consider applying.
In the field of radiology engineering, the UK is lightyears behind everyone even within Europe! Germany (Siemens), Netherlands (Philips) and even Sweden (Arcoma, surprise, surprise!) are all ahead of UK and the US of A (General Electric) is probably on par.
US is the current global leader of providing software systems for the radiology discipline. Almost all the current medical standards and protocols were invented by them (DICOM, PACS, EMR, etc). I can see why UK doesn't offer these courses, i doubt many hospital in UK are even that advanced to have starting using them. In fact with the upcoming Brexit, I expect UK to plunge further back into the stone age due to further NHS budget cuts.
Although computed tomography (CT) was invented by Sir Godfrey Hounsfieldthe, a British citizen, the company he worked for is now defunct and no longer even manufacturers CT machines (the music company EMI). So the glory days of British innovation is now gone and I don't see how chasing away EU scientists and funding are going to bring them back.
Choaniki - a lot of young people have no clue what kinda job they wanna do when they do a degree. Some degrees like medicine or dentistry point you in a v clear direction, but others don't. I had no fucking clue what job I was going to get or what I wanted to do when I selected my university. I was so young then and I just said yes to the first university that offered me a scholarship. And you know what? I think it is okay not to know what career you want at the age of 18 - and it's also okay to then change your mind later on after you graduate or when you start working. You're making an assumption that at the age of 18, that teenager knows exactly what career path to go down - well, life can be a lot more confusing and complex than that, as you well know from your own personal experience.
DeleteI guess I was thinking too far ahead as I mentioned masters. For most industries it doesn't care what undergrad degree you have since they will train you for the job. However, as you have rightly pointed out, where you study is more important. Not just as a way to get past the gatekeepers but also since you can gain a useful network. Most of your classmates from the top universities usually end up holding a senior position in their company so having access to them would be very useful.
DeleteHello limpeh. I do agree with your points. To give some background, I took my O levels in 2006 and did rather badly to say the least. I did consider the private route and actually pursued a private diploma in psychology from MDIS.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing but good things about it because my lecturers and head of psychology were outstanding qualified teachers but you are right that the course itself doesn't mean anything to employers.
I then took a risk, I took A levels, many years after being out of the mainstream education system and having never even been into a JC. I have been accepted into NUS and will be matriculating this year. There's just a different feeling being accepted into a university which has stringent requirements than a private university where they are hard selling you on why you should choose them.
However I probably will still work with people who are less intelligent, less privileged and less successful than myself. Not because I feel intimidated but because my passion lies in the social service sector haha.
Don't underestimate folks in VWOs.
DeleteSure i have met some dumb ones, but there are also good hard working capable ones. U will certainly need to learn from
smarter more
experienced people!
I have a question for you - one of my relative is considering going to SUTD over NUS, for architecture. My relatives seem to be impressed by the MIT connection and after visiting the school they have a good impression of SUTD. Do you know much about the SUTD school?
ReplyDeleteYou need to ask someone who is an architect. I work in finance. You're asking the wrong person.
DeleteHi Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI'm Keith, a weary 16 year old Singaporean student who will be taking my O Levels exam this year. I realise that my comment has little, if any, direct correlation to your article and I apologize in advance for any inconvenience caused, but I really do require your advice.
Firstly, I've always aspired to be a psychologist ever since I was young, and am currently looking to apply for a psychology course in Ngee Ann Polytechnic either through the EAE or JAE exercise after sitting for my O Levels. The issue here, however, is that from what little knowledge i’ve pieced together from questioning the adults around me, psychology as an industry is very difficult to make a living in without a degree from a prestigious educational institute like NUS or Cambridge, and I have absolutely no desire to pursue my studies more than strictly necessary.
Given your knowledge of the working world, do you think it would be feasible for me to work in the psychological field by entering the workforce earlier and garnering work experience instead of furthering my studies?
Secondly, I am also considering moving abroad in the future(I am currently considering Australia, New Zealand and Britain). I have spoken to my parents about this at length, and whilst they were initially aghast at the notion, after hearing me out they were thankfully supportive of my idea. It may sound childish, but the primary factor behind why I want to leave the country I’ve lived in for 15 years and 5 months is that I genuinely do not believe I belong here.
No, I did not face any form of bullying or ostracizing during any period of my life, and neither is it because I am unable to cope with my studies. All things considered, I have a large and ample supply of friends, and as narcissistic as it may sound, I was a graduate of Singapore’s GEP programme, and while I am considered by many of those around me to be “underperforming”, it is simply due to a lack of interest in various subjects offered at the secondary school level and I remain confident I can excel in my academics if I put my heart into it.
It has long since been known that Singapore is a extremely competitive and stressful society where many successful thrive and those less fortunate tend to struggle. Whilst I do harbour deep affection and love for Singaporean culture and customs, beneath the surface festers many issues that tend to be swept under the rug, such as rampant media censorship, a political scene that has basically been dominated by a single party for over 50 years and a worrying trend of political dissidents being sued into bankruptcy to name a few. It both astounds and frustrates me that Singaporeans are so content, ignorant and happy in their everyday lives that they do not raise any questions.
I tried to speak to a classmate once regarding some of these issues, but he just gave me a weird look and replied in typical Singaporean fashion: “You sound like some old uncle sia!” I could only hide the sinking feeling I had at that point in time in the pit of my stomach and give him a wane but wry smile while making a joke.
I think i’ve rambled on for long enough and it’s getting pretty late, so I suppose the gist of the message of i’m trying to put across is that having read some of your earlier articles, I’m wondering if you have faced similar situations while you were still in Singapore, and if you have any advice or information to impart concerning immigration to another country.
Thank you!
Keith, a few grains of truth for you.
Delete1. You reap what you sow. It is extremely childish of you to say bullshit like " I have absolutely no desire to pursue my studies more than strictly necessary." Like who the fuck do you think you are? You are a 16 year old kid with no qualifications, you think you're smart? Well older gatekeepers like me want you to prove it. If you think you can prove that you're better than the rest of your peers without actually gaining the paper qualification to prove it, then you're full of shit and somebody needs to pour a bucket of ice water over your head to wake you up. You're fucking dreaming kid. You seriously are. Who the hell do you expect to take you seriously when you have a shitty attitude like that?
2. Maybe a degree in psychology won't be too much fun - it won't guarantee you your dream job as well, but it is such a niche field with only so many jobs available in clinical psychology. Many who study psychology end up going into a related fields like social work or marketing because they simply cannot get jobs in clinical psychology even if they have the right qualification. You have the nerve to think that you can beat those top candidates from excellent universities to these jobs with some second grade diploma from a poly? Dude, what drugs are you on? Are you fucking hallucinating? Are you really that fucking stupid or delusional? Or both? You don't stand a chance in hell of working as a psychologist dude.If you wanna go down that route, then you need a good degree + masters + post grad - yet you don't wanna study? What the fuck dude, seriously. You wanna have the prestigious job, yet you think you can be taken seriously in this industry without proper qualifications? You are fucking ridiculous dude, you really are.
3. We're not talking about working in some industry where you don't need a degree, like if you wanna start a small business - you wanna work in an industry where the basic entry requirement is a fucking degree, preferably from a top university. You know that. No one is going to give a fucking nobody like you a chance unless you have the right degree - do you realize what kind of competition you face in this industry? Seriously dude, WTF?
4. You wanna migrate? Do you realize that countries in the West only take highly skilled professionals and a degree is a basic requirement (along with a long, long list of other criteria that makes you qualify as a fucking highly skilled migrant). If you tried to migrate to the west with a fucking poly diploma, you will FAIL. Those are the rules dude. Nobody wants a useless piece of shit who is so full of himself that he thinks he so fucking smart he can do a professional's job without the relevant degree.
You seem to be able to write in reasonably good English, you don't sound like a stupid person - you do however, think that the rules of society somehow don't apply to you and that you get to make your own rules, well tough shit motherfucker, you're in for a fucking rude shock. Bwahahahaha. Wake the fuck up.
5. Oh and if you wanna break the rules of society, then start your own business and be your own boss. But working in psychology means being a part of the medical science establishment, where you will only be allowed to gain access to employment if you have qualified. There are no short cuts in the path you have identified and if you think that because you've done some GEP crap you get to reinvent the game and break the rules, then fucking hell, you're a fucking idiot. The game changers who break the rules have studied the game well before coming up with a great strategy - you're just a jumped up arrogant little piece of shit who thinks you can break the rules cos they don't apply to you. You're from Singapore, you should know what it means to obey the fucking rules. It's the same thing everywhere you go - you wanna move to Oz or the UK - well, find out what it takes to move to these countries for crying out aloud and if you think you can do it without a degree, then you're so fucking wrong. Duh. Learn the rules and follow the fucking rules for crying out aloud kid.
DeleteAnd grow some pubic hair whilst you're at it.
Hi Limpeh,
DeleteI must admit I did not expect my comment to elicit as harsh a response as it did. I hold your opinion in high regard, and after much self reflection I believe I understand why such criticism is warranted. I deeply apologize if I rubbed you off the wrong way. Nevertheless, I learnt a lot from your grains of truth and I thank you for taking the time to reply to a comment that you feel is full of bullshit.
Also, I would like this chance to clarify any misconceptions the sentence “I have absolutely no desire to pursue my studies more than strictly necessary.” May have aroused. What I really meant was that I would prefer not to further my studies through the university route if possible, but I am still prepared to go down that route given a lack of alternatives.
Whilst I do admit that I have a tendency to shun society’s rules and regulations, I am now keenly aware that there is only so much one person can do to change such affairs, let alone a foolish stuck up 16 year old with no qualifications. I suppose you were right in saying it was a wishful and delusional train of thought. I only got away with it because those around me weren’t as discerning and articulate or simply didn’t care to correct me, and you have my gratitude for allowing me to “wake the fuck up” and face reality. I will try my best to enter a respectable university and get a degree before hopefully earning a place in the psychology industry, qualify as a highly skilled immigrant and move abroad. (While growing pubic hair)
Hi Keith,
DeleteLook I'm sorry for the F-bombs and I was not in a good mood when I wrote that. But I think you did come across as very arrogant and naive - that's a terrible combination. The key thing about learning to break the rules is recognizing in the first instance what the rules are before trying to break them in a most intelligent manner, say by exploiting a loophole. The worst kind of idiot is the kind who simply assume that somehow the rules do not apply to them - you did rub me up the wrong way and I thought you had that mindset. I'm all for rule breaking - but I believe in doing it the smart way.
You talked about becoming a psychologist - well, that's a poor choice for someone looking to break the rules. You simply cannot get the license to practice without the right qualifications and this is no different from say dentistry or medicine. Such are the rules. I know of people who end up tinkering around the edges of clinical psychology as 'life coaches' or 'counsellors' but make no mistake - they are always going to be on the periphery without actual qualifications. There are other industries, such as banking for example (since I work in banking) where yeah rules are far less strict about entry requirements, but you're barking up the wrong tree and somebody needs to tell you that in no uncertain terms. Well, I could have said it in a more polite manner, but the message stands. Either forget psychology if you don't wanna go to university, or commit to go down that route as you have no other alternative.
Oh @ Keith
DeleteOne more point
i used to hang out with people who expressed similar opionions to you.. i have since cut all ties with them a long long time ago
Most of them are either unemployed or holding a string of part time odd jobs...
One of these chaps was a straight A Hwa Chong boy
And people are like what the fuck.. hes got a basic degree/diploma why doesn't he do something proper with it
u don't want this kind of life
The 'system' may be 'stupid'
Don't assume u r smarter than it.
Thats a deadly mistake, trust me
@Keith: one more thing
Deleteyou probably have not seen enough of the world to even know what to change, let alone how to change it.
u wanna bring about An enlightened society?
Its not that simple, buddy.
Enlightened Leadership to me is like being a skilled surgeon who "cuts off a leg to save a life."
Theres are rarely perfect solutions.
clever ideas are not miracles. a brilliant imagination is useless without sufficient knowledge to base your decisions upon.
what actual evidence do you have to prove that your theories are superior? Have u listened carefully to your friends? have u truly grapsed their point of view? Don't be too sure they are entirely without merit
I spent 10yrs observing my holier than thou ex friends descent into the abyss.. these buffoons all smugly thought themselves superior the average singaporean Without the slightesf shred of evidence.
Be very very careful. Not only do you not have power to change affairs, u very motivation to
'change affairs' may be irrational.
@Keith Don't bother with the psychology industry, even with a PhD and without connections you are unlikely to become a clinical psychologists most probably end up teaching in a tertiary institution somewhere.
DeleteSince taking a few psychology modules in school, i have a very low opinion of psychology in general, i find it a pseudoscience since a very large proportion of the experiments can't be replicated. (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/under-the-influence/201308/the-psychology-the-psychology-isnt-science-argument)
Also do more research on the psychologist diagnosis "bible" the DSM, it is entirely based on rubbish created by the American such a long time ago.
Hi Keith, Limpeh already delivered plenty of truth but one of your comments really irks me. You keep emphasizing on not wanting to further your studies through university, for someone who wants to study psychology, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU NOT WANT SO?
DeleteYou do realize that's one profession where you NEED a degree? It's not like starting a business or company where the Mark Zuckerbergs and Bill Gates of the world can drop out of university because they don't need their degree. For many aspects of psychology and heck, social service, you need qualifications.
You can get your diploma or whatever in psychology but to become a practicing psychologist? A degree and you may even need to get a masters at that. If you think other branches such as counselling or even social work doesn't need a degree, boy, are you in for a huge surprise. Sure, you can get your diploma in counselling or even work as a social work assistant but if you want to be a full fledged counsellor or social worker? A DEGREE. Look up any vacancy for those positions. A DEGREE is needed at the very least.
If you have no interest in university, psychology may not be the job for you.
Psychologists have Phds. Therapists and counselors have at least Masters. Psychiatrists have medical degrees. This is not retail sales. Do you research, young man. No short cuts.
DeleteAnd Keith, a course at Ngee Ann is not going to make you a psychologist. At the same time, you don't need NUS or Cambridge either. Plenty of good universities out there with psychology programs. Why do you listen to other idiots when you should do your research?
DeleteAnything within the medical field is expected to be strictly regulated. So forget about trying to break any rules if you are in pursuit of a career in medical fields, you might be playing around with legalities and human life.
DeleteJust parroting LIFT, if you really want to avoid former education routes, there are always sectors like software development, which places more emphasis on ability and experience. I think I mentioned this quite a few times, but I shall just repeat myself. Some of the best software engineers I collaborated with messed up their academics, or are just simply not interested in getting a degree, they, on the other hand, hold portfolios(participation in developing libraries and frameworks) that outclass most IT graduates.
Damn right about clinical psych; u have to tow the line thats for sure. U have to apply the theories in vogue even if u feel they are bullshit.
ReplyDeleteAs for life coaches, i have met quite a few making very good money.. some come across as brilliant slick oily 'slippery sam' salesmen, some as sociopaths, and some as good natured but oddly naive. "All you need is passion to succeed.." or some other silly statement.
They all have one thing in common: an utter inability to accurately assess aka diagnose client before prescribing solutions. If u dunno exactly what the problem is, how can u solve it? Its BS.
The only assessment they do is to find out what a prospect wants to buy. u want love? ok sell u love workshop. Hope? A Hope Seminar.. etc efc
Its takes years to truly gain the sort of diagnostic skills that a psychiatrist or psychologist has.
These life coaches for most part are like the Mafia, make money selling hope (in place of dope), but never truly having legitimacy.
To be a psychologists u need not only a basic degree - its a proper masters or phD. No shortcuts. Its like becoming. doctor. A painful grind.
@Keith, suggest u speak to actuAl psychologists before you choose this as your career - it may be different from what you think.
Oh and to earn a masters/phd? U need straight As.
Hello Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI recently stumbled across your blog and it is an interesting read! Given that you are in the financial services industry, what is your opinion of people without degrees but have professional qualifications from bodies such as ACCA or ICAEW. Will they be at a disadvantage/viewed unfavourably by prospective employers as compared to degree holders?
Nicholas
Hi Nicholas, you've asked a good question. I'll give you my personal response then I'll give you an overview of the industry. As a gatekeeper, I am quite good at looking at a CV and getting feel of a candidate - I place far less emphasis on paper qualification and am looking for two key things:
Deletea) signs of brilliance
b) signs of stupidity
I am old school, I'd print out the CV, then take a blue marker and red marker, next to a sign of brilliance (ie. they've done something that has impressed me) I would give it a blue tick. When I spot something dodgy that I disapprove of (eg. a degree from a crap university, a period of unemployment or even a spelling error) I'd put a big red cross. If a CV has more blue than red, it ends up in a pile when I will re-read and go through in more detail. If a CV has nothing at all (nothing good, nothing bad, nothing stands out) or if it is full of red crosses, it goes into the paper-recycling at once. So any kind of professional qualification as you've mentioned would get a blue tick, but so would anything equally impressive but totally unrelated to finance (eg. if that person has represented his country at the Olympics). So for me, it's the overall picture I try to build up, I'm not one of those HR managers obsessed with ticking certain boxes, if someone leaves me with an overall good impression, I'll be more than willing to overlook the lack of certain qualifications and see if we can work our way around that. A truly talented candidate can obtain paper qualifications later and we'll be stupid not to hire that person - whereas a mediocre candidate with the right paper qualifications will at best be a mediocre employee. It is easy to study and get whatever qualifications you need at a later stage, but it is impossible to turn a mediocre person into an exceptional talent.
Now am I progressive in my thinking? I don't think so - not in the West at least, where the culture doesn't focus on paper qualifications. Whereas in East Asia, I'm afraid employers are far more obsessed with paper qualifications and they make much poorer choices when it comes to hiring the right candidate. That's one aspect where companies in the West do a faaaar better job than Asian companies.
I think the question we should ask is whether companies who are obsessed with paper qualifications worse off than the more liberal ones who take a more progressive attitude towards identifying 'talent'? Well, you know my answer on that one.
Thanks for asking.
@LIFT I think your experience might not be too relevant for Singapore. Either UK is technology adverse otherwise the companies you worked for are not large enough.
DeleteThe modern hiring process is no longer dependant on a human for 1st level screening. Most job agencies and large MNCs use something called an application tracking system (ATS). This system is hated since it automatically filters out or deletes resumes from applicants who do not meet the minimum criteria set by the company (educational, working experience, etc).
Outstanding candidates who do not meet the criteria are not even interviewed. The only way they could hope to reach a human would be to get an internal contact to refer them or to use degree mill/falsify resume.
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DeleteREPOST because of major typos and Blogger doesn't allow me to edit comments. Hence I have to delete to repost.
DeleteHi Choaniki - I have only worked for quite specialist companies and within my role as gatekeepers in these smaller, specialist companies, we don't get enough applicants to require the use of ATS - like you said, that's for job agencies and big companies.
You do raise an interesting point - what about the quality of the degree? The job may stipulate that you must be a graduate - but someone who gets a degree from a degree mill is still a graduate per se, would the ATS be able to distinguish between a person with a degree from Oxford and one from a degree mill? And like you said, what about someone who does have an outstanding candidate who does not meet the minimum criteria?
As for myself, my first two jobs were not in finance! I hated my first job, the second job I clung on for 11 months 2 weeks just to demonstrate that I could stay in one place for one year (really disliked the management there) and then stayed in the next job for much longer as I was good at it. I didn't enjoy it but the money was good - it was on the peripheral of finance (ie. financial media, rather than hardcore banking), but that enabled me to make contacts within the industry which eventually led me to get hired by an American hedge fund manager.
Hedge funds are the complete opposite of high street banks - you have banks that take very small amounts of money from millions of ordinary folks, then you have hedge fund managers who take millions from a small amount of very rich investors. I worked for the latter (still working for the same American guy today, though my immediate boss now is an interesting British guy) - so yeah, we're definitely not the kind of company to require the ATS when it comes to recruitment, hence you use a senior manager (ie. me) to look at CVs. I can't speak for big British companies as I've never worked for a huge company before in my career.
Hope that explains it.
I do not have the answers or any solutions, I'm merely pointing out the problems based on my experience. I have worked for several MNCs (HP, Glory) and even been headhunted by GLCs before so i have some encounters with ATS.
DeleteI wouldn't say that the concept is totally useless, somehow it works in Singapore's context since no company would interview or consider a candidate if they don't check the boxes for educational qualification, never mind whether a degree was even needed or whether the candidate could do the job. Heck there are websites out there that advise you on how to beat the ATS by stuffing keywords and buzz phrases into your resume (not going to waste time to post any but there is always Google).
But for a truly global company that is hungry for real talent, and not just people who managed to obtain certain qualifications or certifications, an ATS would really hurt them. The future Bill Gates, Henry Fords, Ingvar Kamprads, James Camerons, etc would all be disqualified by the ATS before even speaking to a real human and that is the real tragedy.
I know Western companies are more enlightened now while some Singaporean companies are still so stuck up on paper qualifications *cough*publicsector*cough*. This is why people like this managed to sneak pass their system: http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ida-probes-claim-about-employee-said-to-have-fake-mba
Well, it seems that the solution for those who find themselves at a disadvantage with ATS have a simple alternative: apply to SMEs who don't use this system and have a gatekeeper in the form of a human being to sort through CVs. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better - you could be a tiny cog in a big machine when working for a huge company, or you could have a great job in a smaller/medium sized company. It's your job that matters at the end of the day, what you do, whether you're good at it, how much you earn and how good your team members/bosses are as opposed to the company. I know someone who works for Google in London and immediately people think oooh you must be an IT expert earning a lot of money, then you realize how little he is paid and how junior he is, maybe Google is a great company but this guy doesn't have a particularly good job (nor is he earning much money). Whereas my employers are v niche and esoteric in terms of where we sit in the banking world, but they are paying me a LOT of money to do what I do and I couldn't be happier.
DeleteOh and the easy solution is also to get the fuck outta Singapore whoopee!
Hi Mr Limpeh, I recently graduated from a B&F diploma course with a pretty measly gpa of 3.5. Got accepted into NTU History which appears to be pretty irrelevant to banking.
ReplyDeleteShould I switch over to SIM UOL B&F instead?
Holding other factors constant, would the gatekeeper for a bank position pick the NTU hist guy who has a irrelevant degree over the SIM-uol guy who is from a private uni but has studied something ostensibly relevant?
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DeleteSorry repost 'cos of typos.
DeleteHi Desmond, good question but I am glad you came to me because I am gonna knock some sense into you. I am a gatekeeper and I would definitely shred your CV (well, or just press the delete button) if I saw you were from SIM.
1. You are far better going to NTU than SIM because of the reputation of NTU of being a good university. I don't give a fuck what you studied at university, I just want to know that you can prove to me that you are a hard worker and a fast learner - and if NTU is the place for you to do so, then fair enough. Whether you studied engineering, history or theology is completely irrelevant to me. How can I make this any clearer - I don't give a FLYING FUCK what you studied at university. You could have been studying about the mating habits of the tsetse fly for all I care, it doesn't fucking matter - as long as you emerge as a graduate who has proven that you can deliver under pressure and NTU is one way to prove that.
2. SIM is a fucking joke for miserable fucked up losers. Nothing they teach you is 'ostensibly relevant' - I need to slap some fucking sense into you students. How dare you be so fucking stupid and arrogant at the same time. If you are lucky enough to get a job in banking, your new manager will teach you everything you need to know about your job - you will start off as a small cog in a big machine, your job is to then learn everything you need to know to function as that small cog really well and there is no way any university can gaze into a crystal ball and teach you everything you need to know about your future job. No, instead they teach you some wider principles about the bigger picture which is utterly and totally useless to you - you are like one of those arrogant students from the good schools, imagine that some dumb school project you do is so fucking important when really, nobody in the working world, in the real world where people make money, actually give a flying fuck about the stupid shit you do at university. By that token, you are completely fucking wrong about the syllabus being 'ostensibly relevant' at SIM B&F - it is like I said, as relevant as the mating habits of the tsetse fly.
3. And if some idiotic dumbass punk student has the audacity to claim that what he has learnt in university is 'ostensibly relevant' and able to hit the ground running - I would put in big red letters 'BAD ATTITUDE' and reject him at once. Show some fucking respect, have some fucking humility for fuck's sake. Who the fuck do you think you are - SIM is full of loser lecturers who can't hack in the real world, so they retreat to the safer world of teaching and you're under the ridiculous impression that anything they teach you will give you an advantage? I can't tell you how much I look down on the fucking losers who run the courses at SIM, it is the blind leading the blind - you wanna put your fate in a hands of a bunch of fucking losers? Don't be so fucking stupid.
4. Boy, you're totally FUCKING delusional. What up and smell the FUCKING coffee dickhead. You're a student. A fucking student at the end of the day. Show some humility and go to NTU, study hard there and prove yourself. SIM is a dead end that will not give you the short cut you're looking for - there are no short cuts in real life. You are lucky that NTU is happy and willing to give you a golden chance - take it and be grateful. And stay the fuck away from SIM if you value your future - even if you don't, you owe it to your parents not to fuck your life up.
Hi Limpeh, as well we know only about 40% of each cohort are university graduates. Does that mean the standard of living of the remainder 60% will invariably be compromised? That they're all 'losers'?
ReplyDeleteHi Desmond. Allow me to respond with the following points:
Delete1. You cannot treat all 'graduates' as if they are a monolithic entity for not all graduates are equal. Sure you have the universities like Oxford, Harvard and Cambridge which are reserved for the very best, then you have those at the bottom of the food chain which will give a degree to any idiot who will pay them some money - that's what league tables are for and that is why the best scholars fight to get into the top universities and if you get a degree from a crap university, no one will ever take you seriously because you've wasted your time and money on a piece of qualification not worth the paper it is printed on. Like seriously, there are some universities which are so bad they'll accept any idiot. I'm talking about SIM.
2. Some people will do jobs directly related to their degrees whilst others won't. It depends on how you choose to map out your career path - if you have a degree that will serve to your advantage, then by all means pick a path that needs a good degree. But if you don't, then don't go down a path where you will be discriminated every step of the way. Quite simply, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Ironically, even though I have a good degree, I never used it and went down a path that is totally open to non-graduates and I am doing well today because I have made some good choices about playing to my strengths.
3. There are so many ways for you to prove yourself worthy to a gatekeeper (ie. the person at the company who looks at your CV when you apply for a job), a degree is but one of many methods. You need to think outside the box about how you are going to impress someone like me (I am a gatekeeper) if you are not going to do so with a degree and I have a very open mind. What I don't like however are people who complain about the system and make excuses - I do like people who are innovative, creative and able to capture my attention in unusual ways. Whining about the system would make me tell you to go fuck yourself. That's a bit of tough love from me - I am not from the sayang sayang brigage, I'm not your grandmother, I'm here to give you a hard dose of reality.
Hello Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of an undergrad degree from Sciences Po and the career prospects in France and Singapore after graduation? I want to study in France and work there if I can, probably in the finance or legal field. Also, is Sciences Po viewed the same as the private universities in Singapore?
I'm still working on my French and can understand a decent amount of French now.
Hi there and I'm going to be blunt - you're wasting your time with Sciences Po (which I shall abbreviate to SPo here). I went to their website and they seem to be bottom feeders who will let anyone in, rather than some of the more prestigious universities which have very high entry standards. I have looked at the current league tables for SPo and okay, they are not at the bottom, but they're not at the top as well. They are not in the top half that's for sure and they are not the first choice for the best students in France. Instead, they seem to rely very heavily on students trying to get some French experience and with many courses taught in English, oh dear - they seem just too desperate to attract international students, like why? Is this because they can't attract the top students in France?
DeleteIf you want to study in France, why the hell are you aiming so low? Why aren't you aiming much higher, for the universities at the top of the French league tables then? What about PSL, EP, UPMC or Sorbonne 4?
And do you know how many seconds it took for me to google the French university league tables? Oh about 10 seconds. You think us gatekeepers don't know how to use google to look something like that up?
Nothing on their website inspired confidence and that's coming from someone who studied at Paris-4 Sorbonne. Now I'm not being a snob just because I studied at the Sorbonne but seriously, why aim so low?
And also, why a French university if your French isn't fluent? Either take a year out and get your French up to scratch or settle for a university in an English speaking country, but don't do SPo - it's a poor compromise.
And how the hell are you going to work in France if your French isn't even totally fluent?!?!?!?!
Like seriously, you've not thought this one through, have you?
Hello Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of Business Commerce degrees from Australia majoring in Accounting & Finance?
My A levels results were average and less hopeful about entering the 3 main local Unis. I have applied to University Of Western Australia. I am not keen in Arts subjects and would like to hear from you if I apply for Arts subjects then complete professional qualification with ACCA or study in Australia. Thanks.
Mate thanks for your comment but what do you want me to say? Do you want me to be honest or reassure you that everything is going to be alright (even though that's clearly not going to be the case)?
DeleteGiven that I'm honest, I'm going to tell it like it is - those degrees are shit and you're wasting your parents' hard earned money on a degree like that. Like what the hell were you thinking? Yeah I'm gonna fuck up my A levels and get shitty results, but that's okay, I'm going to go to this uni in Oz which accepts people with fucking awful results and somehow, I'm going to graduate with a degree that commands so much respect that I'm going to waltz into a fantastically well paid job when I graduate as if I'm a fucking genius.
Yeah right. What drugs are you on? Do you seriously think that's gonna happen?
Nah it's a shit degree from a shit university because your grades are shit and you're paying the price for getting bad grades. Sorry to be harsh but somebody needs to wake you up with a hard dose of reality.
UWA is not ranked in the top 3 in Australia and quite frankly, I won't even bother with anything that's outside the top 5 in Australia given how tiny Australia is in terms of population (not size) and how few decent universities they have.
But you don't have many choices as you've fucked up your A levels. I am not a fucking magician who can fix that. There are consequences for your actions and you're going to have to face them. Frankly, I don't think it makes any difference what you study or where you study, but the one decent thing you can do for yourself is get your ACCA qualification - the only thing is that it will lead you down the career path in accountancy and that's tedious and boring, whilst not being the best paid work within finance. Are you going to be happy going down that path or are you simply picking the least bad option here?
If you think your A level results do not reflect your true ability, why not just hit the reset button by retaking them and then making sure you get the right grades second time around?
Hi Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI recently dropped out of a ntu humanities course because found it hard along with low job prospects. And it's a 4 years course.
As a gatekeeper do you think the Uni Melbourne commerce course is ok? I'm possibly going to study accounting because let's face it, a general business major is kinda useless unless it's from places like Wharton. The course is only 2 years after getting exemptions.
Thanks.
Hi Desmond, thanks for your message.
Delete1. I am highly skeptical of any kind of commerce course - the moment I read the word 'commerce' my gut reaction was NO NO NO FUCK NO NO NO HOLY SHIT NO FUCKING HELL NO NO NO. Yeah, fuck no.
2. Melbourne is a good university - at least it is very near the top of the Australian league tables. But holy fuck why commerce? I am so fucking skeptical about commerce courses at university for good reason: look, I've worked for some extremely demanding and successful bosses over the years. What the hell can you learn in university from some washed out fucking loser who opts to teach at a university instead of making some real money in the business world? Sorry, IMHO a lot of these professors teaching any kind of business or commerce courses at universities are pathetic fucking losers and you think you can learn anything from these losers? Yeah fucking right. It's the blind leading the blind and I hope you're enlightened enough not to fall into that trap.
3. The uni is good but what makes you think that the course will be easy and holy fuck, what makes you think that you will have better job prospects with such a degree? You're not thinking straight. I would shred your CV dramatically then through it from the rooftop like confetti in an overly dramatic manner if I see that you did a commerce degree. Holy fuck, don't make this mistake.
Sorry for the swearing, it's been a rough day. That's because I'm doing some bloody difficult projects in the real business world. I'm not a loser who has opted for the easy life lecturing at a university.
Thanks for the reply limpeh, I like swearing part actually.
DeleteI agree with your view that most business academics are useless because they aren't truly practitioners on Wall Street or consulting firms, maybe except Michael Porter from Harvard.
Melbourne is good, but their entry requirement for international student is low. For instance, a poly graduate like me can enter with a 3.2/4 GPA. Similar business courses at NUS/NTU requires a 3.7 GPA. Given that, would the gatekeeper's opinion of uniMelb graduates be lowered?
The commerce degree is somewhat like liberal arts, one studies modules across the business spectrum in the early years, then proceeds to select a major like accounting, finance, marketing, economics, etc.
My diploma is like that of an JC Arts student, which means I can't take STEM, medicine, dentistry, etc. Commerce, with a major in accounting is just about the most "useful" bread-winning degree I can take.
An bachelor of arts degree in humanities or social science is useless, at least in Singapore. For NUS/NTU/SMU are not IB target universities like the ivies, Ox-bridge, UCL, etc. A student from those unis can practically major in anything like history and still get hired by top firms. Graduates from our local uni may stand a chance if they are the top 1% of the cohort.
Now with average grades an accountancy graduate still gets hired, because it's a skill in demand. But nobody needs philosophy or general business graduates.
Hi Desmond, okay I promise no swearing today.
Delete1. Sorry if I am harsh on business academics but there's an element of truth to it - why are they opting out of the rat race by retreating to teaching at a university when they could be raking in millions in the business world? Think about it.
2. I'm less concerned about the ranking of Melbourne than your choice of course there - are there other courses there which you are interested in?
3. Before going into accounting, think carefully - are you going to be bored out of your mind, hating every moment of your working life? Is accounting really for you? You don't sound motivated at all.
4. Have you ever asked yourself what you really wanna do with your career?
Hi Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI'm Sarah. I was offered a place in Cambridge University studying Human, Social and Political Sciences and was offered a stat board scholarship (a decent stat board imo but non-finance related). However, I'm not too keen on being bonded to an organisation that doesn't seem to have much exit options because the work I will be doing is quite niche. I'm also interested in entering the finance industry in the future.
Hence, I'm deciding to go to Yale-NUS because
1) it's cheaper than going to Cambridge on father-mother scholarship and
2) I like the liberal arts curriculum where you get to do modules unrelated to your major (unlike in the UK where you can only do papers related to your course).
If I'm interested in entering the finance industry, will going to Yale-NUS be a good decision? Or should I go to Cambridge (and perhaps change my course to economics, although I don't think you will approve, haha.)
Thank you!
I think it is a no-brainer, there's only one obvious choice that you need to make: you MUST go to Cambridge and study the course you have earned yourself a place in. If you do it funded by your parents, then what will happen is this: many top companies in the banking world will start to recruit the best brains out of Oxford and Cambridge as early as your first and second year out of Oxbridge, they would approach you as an undergrad and say, "by virtue of the fact that you're in Cambridge, we know you're brilliant and we want you! Sign this contract and you would have secured yourself a job with our bank after you graduate and we'll give you all this perks like paid summer internships etc and you don't have to worry about looking for a job after you graduate." Oh the red carpet would be rolled out to you like you're a VIP whilst you're going to get NONE of that at Yale-NUS because Yale-NUS is NOT Yale, the big difference is that it is in Singapore and you're not going to get the top banks desperate to recruit you out of university. Instead, you're going to join the long queue of graduates desperately trying to get internships, applying for jobs, you're at the back of the line Sarah.
DeleteSorry to be harsh Sarah, you're smart enough to get a scholarship to Cambridge but fucking hell, you're making the WRONG decision because of money?!?!??!?!?! That's such a bad decision and the wrong one, I'll tell you why: in the short run, you save a bit of money studying locally in Singapore but in the long run, your starting salary is going to be much lower as you miss out on being recruited by a top bank and over your lifetime, your overall earnings will be much, much, much lower than if you were recruited straight out of Cambridge into a top bank.
Conversely, if you went to Cambridge, you spend (well, invest) a lot more of your parents' money now on a far more prestigious degree and in the short run, you deplete their life savings but in the long run, you will earn x10 more over your career if you picked that choice and you would be able to pay your parents back x10 the money they spend on your degree at Cambridge.
You wanna enter banking, yet you don't seem to be able to understand this simple concept about the return on your investment? You are picking a far inferior option because of short term savings? Holy fuck, if you're that shortsighted and stupid on this simple issue, then please, avoid finance altogether and take the stat board scholarship cos you fucking suck when it comes to anything to do with investment. You can't even work out what is a good investment for your future earning ability and you're so focused on short term savings. Good grief. Talk about a really fucking stupid decision.
Look, you're young, I'm chalking this up to you being given bad advice by some older assshole who probably claimed that there is no difference between studying locally and at Cambridge. There is a massive difference and you can either go to Cambridge and have the red carpet treatment from the start or you can hustle like the rest of the locals for the rest of your life - the choice is yours but holy fuck, for someone smart enough to earn yourself a place in Cambridge, you seem to lack a lot of common sense in even considering Yale-NUS because of a short term saving you could make. I can't make this any clearer: FUCK YALE-NUS, you wanna throw away your future?
DeleteFor fuck's sake girl, wake the fuck up. Don't be this fucking idiotic Singaporean student who is so focused on your university modules that you can't see beyond those 3 years at university, nobody will give a FLYING FUCK what fucking stupid fucking asslicking modules you studied at university, so whatever liberal arts curriculum asssucking bullshit at Yale-NUS, you think this is a holiday camp where you're supposed to have fun and do interesting posts for Instagram? Fuck that bullshit Sarah!!! Grow the fuck up and for once, think like an adult instead of a teenage girl.
Beg, borrow, steal, accept the scholarship, change your course but at the end of the day, you MUST go to Cambridge, no ifs, no buts and this is for your future if you want a decent job. I can't make it any clearer. Don't fuck up your life, you're not stupid, so don't be so fucking childish and make the wrong decision based on something as stupid as liking a liberal arts curriculum. That's all fucking bullshit.
OK scolding over. Don't fuck this up Sarah. Going to Yale-NUS will seriously fuck your life up so badly.
Furthermore Sarah, let me give you a wake up call from someone who has been in the position of the gatekeeper when receiving all of these applicants for a job: there are two piles we sort the initial applicants into, CREDIBLE and waste of time. If I see you're from Cambridge, you not only go to the Credible pile, you are at the top of the pile. Yale-NUS ends up in the waste of time pile because it is simply an inferior option, it is not the real Yale and I really don't give a shit what you studied, what modules, what courses blah blah blah no I seriously couldn't give a flying fuck. And if I think you do, you're seriously delusional that anyone in the big bad working world would be impressed with anything you've done at university within the module - like if you wanna impress me, go climb Mt Everest without oxygen, go join a start up and make your first million bucks, you win an Olympic gold medal, there's plenty you can do to impress me but let me assure you there's absolutely NOTHING you can do at Yale-NUS that could possibly even make me raise an eyelid. However, if you do get into Cambridge, then yes, you have impressed me already.
DeleteAs I've said, you have this one chance to make the right decision, even if you wanna fuck up your life as you don't give a fuck about your future, you owe it to your parents to make the right decision.
Thank you for the reply! In hindsight the question was really stupid. I think my uncertainty has also got to do with the fact that I'm not 100% (or really, even 70%) certain that I want to enter the finance industry in the future. I think I'll go do more research, and if I do decide to embark on that path, I know which university I would choose!! Thank you :)
DeleteLook, sorry for the harsh language but here's a fact that you're not being told. As an undergraduate in Cambridge, you have all these companies competing against each other to hire first and second year students - the reason is because everyone knows that the moment you gain yourself a place in Cambridge, you have proven yourself already and they want you. So it's not just the banks who are competing to hire Cambridge graduates but so many top companies from a variety of companies throwing cash bonuses at undergrads from Cambridge. Whereas at Yale-NUS, does this happen? Hell no, fuck no. You graduate and then you hustle like everyone else and you get to the back of the line and hope for the best when you search for your first job. So even if you're not going to go into banking and you decide you go into another industry, you will still have:
Deletea) a MUCH higher starting salary
b) a MUCH wider range of companies lining up to offer you a job
c) a MUCH higher earning potential once we extend that 10, 20, 30 years after graduation
So even if you wanna do something completely unrelated to finance, you still have everything to gain and nothing to lose by going to Cambridge and the same applies conversely, you have everything to lose and NOTHING to gain by going to Yale-NUS.
I think the problem with you is that you are thinking like a student (and I can forgive you for that as you are a student) but you need to think about this as an adult looking 30 years into the future and thinking which option would set you up for the career you want. When you talk about stupid dumb shit like the contents of the modules at Yale-NUS, like holy fuck, you earned yourself a place at Cambridge, you can't be stupid, yet you are so ... what's the word, I don't wanna call you stupid, but you're misguided. Cos you can't be stupid, I know you're not stupid - I'm not dealing with a stupid person here, but I can sense that you've been given so much bad, wrong, misleading information all your life and you're so totally misguided and I'm like, girl, please, don't fuck up your life because some other idiot has given you bad information. This is your future so don't fuck it up.
I can't make this any clearer Sarah - under no circumstances, no matter what career you want in the future, should you ever choose Yale-NUS over Cambridge.
DeleteUnder no circumstances.
None.
Nada.
Is that clear?
There's only one option and if you think there are two, then you're not just misguided, you're refusing to listen to good advice from someone who knows what he is talking about and if you still choose to go to Yale-NUS after having talked to me, then what can I say? I can't stop you from fucking up your life for all the wrong reasons. I've tried.