Do you want to work in fund management? |
Now a lot of people talk about getting a job in banking but this is a huge sector and fund management is a very specific branch within the world of banking. Now fund managers are the rock stars of the banking world: in a nutshell, they take a large pool of assets and make strategic investment decisions that will get you a very good return on your investment (in return for a small fee). Good fund managers can outperform the market, so if you are frustrated by the low interest rates in the bank and don't want to take risks on the stock market, investing in a fund that has a very good track record is a sound investment decision. However, there are risks involved and the value of the fund can go up or down, depending on whether the fund manager has made good decisions. Those fund managers who know how to make the right investment decisions even during challenging economic circumstances are highly rewarded for their insight and thus are extremely highly paid. It is not just the money that attracts people to this industry, it is also the ego: some people have had some success in managing their personal portfolio and have made wise investment decisions, thus they believe they can do that for others and be handsomely paid for that. There has been a lot of positive publicity for this course in the local press and the main premise for the FMAC programme at NYP is the fact that Singapore is a major Asian fund management hub and there is a lack of local talent to do the jobs in this industry - what the articles do not say is that a lot of the lucrative jobs created in this industry are going to foreigners, not locals and hopefully this course would help redress that balance. But it won't. Allow me to explain why.
Firstly, you have to overcome prejudice and snobbery in the industry. The fact is that many people in the industry have come from the top universities in the world and the fund management companies continue to recruit from these top universities. If you are from a second-tier university that is not very near the top end of the league tables, then your application will be ignored (but not before the evil gatekeeper has a good laugh at how you have this 癞蛤蟆想吃天鹅肉 attitude in even daring to apply in the first place.) These companies want to attract the brightest, smartest talents to their teams and they don't really care what you studied at university, the fact that you are smart enough to get into one of the top universities in the world is good enough evidence for them that you are of the right caliber. So yes, they could recruit someone from say Oxford university with an engineering degree - this engineering graduate may know absolutely nothing about finance on the day he starts work, but that's fine, the company is more than willing to spend time training him and teach him everything he needs to do in order to do the job he is recruited for. In short, no, they do not expect you to hit the ground running on day one, you just need to be quite clever and a really fast learner.
Do you understand the job application process in this industry? |
Secondly, it doesn't help that the level of entry for this course is painfully low - you can enroll in this course directly from your O levels without straight As and that is not a popular route even amongst the Singaporean students who have their sights set on a career in fund management. The more traditional route would be to go to one of the world's top universities like Oxford or Cambridge, get a degree (any degree) there just to overcome the snobbery in the industry and be accepted by the elite. NYP simply doesn't scream "elite" to the people in the industry, at best, the image I get of NYP (or any of the Singaporean polys) is that is it a rather decent alternative for those who cannot get into a respectable local university and don't want to waste good money going to a shitty second-tier university in the West. I'm sure the people at NYP will argue that the course content is very good and will prepare the students for jobs in the industry; but that still does nothing to overcome the prejudices and snobbery in the industry. Without a good university degree, it is going to be very hard to get past the gatekeepers in this industry and you will be up against many graduates from very good universities in this industry.
Now NYP makes a big deal about the six-month paid internships for selected students in the course - I have to say, that is very useful indeed. Getting an internship with State Street is probably far more useful than the diploma itself because it gives you a valuable opportunity to prove yourself to a potential employer. It is all about getting your foot in the door but even if you do get your foot in the door, there is no guarantee that you will impress State Street enough to secure a job upon graduation. There is a huge gulf between being a student and performing a job in a working office: so unless you have the right skills to make that transition successfully, your internship can be a no more than a wasted opportunity. The problem with many Singaporean students is that they are just too passive, too spoon-fed and lack initiative: they expect to be taught what to do in the work place - in the world of fund management, anyone with that kind of attitude may be able to get a job in the boring end of the fund management world (there's plenty of paperwork to be done in the back office) but if you want to be in the front line of fund management as a fund manager, or at least work within sales and marketing, then you have to be a lot more proactive than the vast majority of Singaporeans.
Why is the fund management industry in Singapore still full of expats? |
This does reflect my experience when dealing with fund management companies in Singapore - back in 2011, I was working for a fund manager from Luxembourg looking for a Singaporean business partner to expand their distribution and operations in Asia. As part of that process, I met many potential partners and had a good chance to see how they operated - in many such companies, those in senior positions are usually (though not exclusively) expatriates or at least Singaporeans who have spent time working abroad, whilst those in the more junior, administrative tasks were local Singaporeans. If anything, the FMAC course at NYP is only preparing their students for these more local roles and okay, you have to start somewhere - maybe some of them will work their way up the career ladder to a more senior position but from what I had observed, that hasn't happened yet. That has a lot to do with the fact that these companies would still discriminate against someone without a degree from a top university.
I think this is a missed opportunity I'm afraid - here's what I would have done. Instead of making it a diploma from a poly, I would have made the course a degree course. The actual content of the course wouldn't need to change that much - but it should be a degree course at either NUS or SMU whereby it would only accept applicants with A levels or a diploma. To make sure that the course is prestigious, it should only accept students with top grades. The problem with the course right now is that it only leaves the student with a diploma and eventually, the student will probably still need to do a degree at some stage if s/he is seriously contemplating a career in the fund management industry. The worst case scenario is that you do this diploma and if you don't manage to get on the internship programme with a good firm to prove yourself, then frankly, you're highly unlikely to get a job in this industry. Is that a risk you want to take if you are really keen to work in the fund management industry? I wouldn't - it is just not worth the gamble.
3 years for a diploma but not a degree? Sounds like a bad deal to me. |
Here's one part of the prospectus that did make me laugh my head off, under the objectives of the course, they claim: "Prepare graduates for successful career at the supervisory and management level in fund management, fund administration and related areas." That is just in the realm of pure fantasy, allow me to explain why. Firstly, very few people in the fund management industry actually reach supervisory or management level in the industry: let's take a company like Franklin Templeton (one of the biggest fund management companies in the world). What percentage of the people working at Franklin Templeton are in management and how many people are managed? There are plenty of professionals in such a company who are extremely good at what they do yet they do not manage others - it takes a completely different set of skills to be able to manage a team of people working under you. You need to excel at your job first before you are even offered the opportunity to manage others in the company, in a company like Franklin Templeton, many of those at senior management positions never did a course to prepare them for management roles - they simply rose to the top in a very organic way and got promoted after they have proven themselves. This has been the way successful businessmen have reached positions of management for so long - what makes you think that this is something you can actually 'teach' in a classroom environment?
Am I too tough on NYP? Probably - but here's the biggest challenge they face: they are trying to to create a major change within the fund management industry. The industry has always been quite happy to recruit quality graduates from top university and teach them everything from scratch to work in fund management. NYP is trying to convince these companies that it would be better for them to hire their FMAC graduates because they are so well trained at NYP and this would represent a massive saving for the employers if they no longer have to teach their new employees everything from scratch. Will FMAC graduates from NYP be able to hit the ground running, thus saving fund management company precious time, money and resources to train their new recruits? The answer is no for the following reasons: every fund management company is unique because they offer different kinds of funds. A fund of hedge funds would employ totally different strategies compared to say, an ethical green fund which invests in renewable energy or a fund that invests in Chinese equities. Furthermore, some companies target the retail market, whilst others target the institutional market - each approach would require a totally different sales & marketing strategy.
It all boils down to profit and loss for the employers. |
As a student, you cannot predict what kind of company you will end up working for and you also cannot predict what role you will play within the company - there are so many possibilities from back office to due diligence to marketing to sales to administration to research to client/investor relations to HR to PR to analyst to accountant. So what NYP ends up doing is trying to teach you a bit of everything so they can claim to have covered all major topics within the syllabus - you end up knowing a little about everything but just not enough about one topic to be particularly useful at anything. In practice, for those lucky to land a job in the industry, there is a very steep learning curve to climb once they start working. Having the FMAC diploma doesn't really help you that much as there is just so much product specific knowledge that is unique to the company that the new recruit has to learn. Thus it doesn't really save the employer any time or money by hiring someone with the FMAC diploma. because the knowledge that the FMAC graduate has is way too generic to enable him to hit the ground running.
The complex nature of each companies product means that generic training isn't that useful compared to say, plumbing - whereby a plumber will be able to deal with any tap, sink or toilet even if he hasn't seen it before. That is why plumbing courses are very useful for those wishing to become plumbers, but fund management? Oh dear. I'm afraid NYP is really barking up the wrong tree here. We have to remember why the polytechnics in Singapore were set up in the first place and what they offered in the early days. They were designed to provide a viable alternative for those who were not suited for the academic nature of universities, they were places where you could learn a trade, get a diploma which would lead to a viable career by becoming a plumber, welder or electrician. The problem though, is that NYP are aspiring to be like a university these days and are trying to do something they are simply not able to deliver. A degree (or diploma) is supposed to prepare the student for the working world, giving the student all the skills s/he would need to embark on that new career path. I'm afraid the FMAC diploma just doesn't fulfill that purpose.
Can this diploma get you a job? |
When I worked in fund management, I worked 5.5 years for an eccentric American hedge fund manager - he is incredibly intelligent (complete with a degree from Cambridge) and whilst working for him, he taught me a lot and I was able to learn first hand from the master himself. If I were to apply for another job in the industry, I would be able to use him as a reference and most employers would sit up and say, "oh look, if he can survive working this long for this hedge fund manager, he must be good." Now here's my problem with NYP - I don't know how the teachers on the course are, but if they are so absolutely brilliant at fund management, then why aren't they working in senior positions in a big firm like Franklin Templeton? Why are they instead, drawing a very modest salary teaching at NYP instead? My only conclusion is that these teachers have been rejected by the big firms like Franklin Templeton, but they have somehow acquired the qualifications to teach this course at NYP. Furthermore, this is an industry that is rapidly changing - strategies that were popular in 2014 are now completely out of date as people have come up with new products, new ideas and new strategies for 2016. These teachers at NYP have been out of the game for so long - how could they possibly know what the brightest brains at Franklin Templeton are getting up to? Anything taught on the FMAC is probably going to be out-of-date by the time the students graduate from the course.
As a gatekeeper, I'm afraid I apply the rule that the student can only be as good as his teacher - and in this case, it may sound extremely harsh, but that is how I would judge the quality of the teaching for this course. What can you possibly learn from someone who can't get a job with a real hedge funds manager, but wants to teach you about hedge funds? Oh, and you're supposed to then go on and do what your teacher has failed - get a good job in the industry? It doesn't make sense. Indeed, after having spent 10, even 20 years teaching at NYP, how much does the teacher know about what actually happens in the world of fund management, if he has never worked in the industry for that long? It is like trying to learn how to drive from a driving instructor who hasn't actually got a driver's license himself. He may be able to explain to you in great detail about how a car works, but what does he actually know about driving? Okay, you may remind me that the students may get an internship where they can actually experience the real working environment of a fund management company - but why should that be the icing on the cake? None of this makes any sense to me as a gatekeeper who has scrutinized CVs over the years, so I cannot recommend this course.
What is the right way to get a job in fund management? |
So ultimately, if you are serious about working in the fund management industry, I'm afraid my advice would be to avoid this course and go do a degree at a good university instead. Now I'm sure I'm going to receive many angry comments from former students of the course who think that I have been way too harsh in this article - if you feel that I am wrong, then please, feel free to leave me a comment below and let's talk about it. Many thanks for reading.
OK, here is a dose of reality about NYP. NYP does not necessarily hire business degree holders to teach in the Business Administration department. I know this because a friend of mine works there. Hence, if the same hiring practice applies to the Fund Management program, you have to wonder how good the instructors are.
ReplyDeleteI go back to my analogy about having a driving instructor who doesn't actually have a driver's license (and has never driven) - but hey, he has a thick instruction manual about how cars work and you spend your days in a classroom with him, learning about how the engine works, but when you actually get behind the wheel of a car, it is the blind leading the blind as he doesn't actually drive.
DeleteJust because you are busy learning a lot of things doesn't mean that it is of any value if the teacher isn't really in a position to teach you what you really need to know. That's where the whole programme fail - but hey, Singaporeans don't wanna hear that.
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ReplyDeleteHi Neoplasm, a few points for you.
Delete1. I think that many Singaporeans do want to work in finance - 'follow the money' as they say and fund management is full of very highly paid jobs! But if you really wanna work in this industry, then you need to do your homework and find out what it takes to get your dream job.
2. You've also made a mistake Neoplasm, you're talking about a financial advisor (sometimes known colloquially in Singapore as a 'broker'). He's the guy my dad speaks to and tells my dad, "uncle, invest in this fund, the performance has been very good throughout 2015 and it is a very safe bet." My dad's financial advisor tells my dad what to invest in, for a small fee. However, the funds that the financial advisor recommends are managed by fund managers - now these are the rock stars of the banking world and command multi-million dollar salaries. The financial advisor probably makes a decent living, but certainly they are much lower down the food chain. There are probably tens of thousands of financial advisors in Singapore, but I'd be surprise if there were more than a few hundred fund managers in Singapore. Many of the funds that Singaporeans invest in are run by big companies like Jupiter, Aberdeen, HSBC etc and their fund managers are not even in Singapore but in London, New York, Hong Kong, Frankfurt etc.
Now this poly diploma is aiming to get their graduates into this industry - but the way I see it, they can at best get a job say as a junior researcher or someone handling back office admin. To imagine that you can actually become a FUND MANAGER (ie. the man who takes control of an 8 or 9 figure pool of money and make investment decisions for that pool of money) with a poly diploma is just laughable.
Erm yeah, these poly diploma holders probably can become financial advisors as that's more dependent on being able to maintain a very good relationship with the client - it's all about client relations and providing a good service.
Akan datang, next article coming soon on SIM degrees.
Oh man SIM degrees are a BAD idea. My sis had one and it did NOTHING for her. There were no internship opportunities with good companies. Instead, all you had were meaningless exchange programs that are nothing more than glorified vacations. Many of her classmates were unmotivated, bored slackers from rich families who didn't give a damn about their A levels and ended up in SIM. It was a smelting pot for disaster.
DeleteThere are limited openings for fresh graduates every year and from my earlier experience in HR, there is little incentive for me to consider a CV from a low-tier uni when I am sitting on a trove of applications from NUS/SMU graduates. Yes, it is true that the CV only lands you an interview opportunity and your performance during the meeting is what lands you the job. However, what many low-tier degree holders fail to consider is the fact that your CV needs to be attractive enough for people to invite you down for an interview in the first place.
IMO, NYP is setting themselves up for failure with this Fund Management course. Also, I think it is highly irresponsible of them to misguide young, impressionable folks into believing that they had a shot at big time with their dubious NYP diploma.
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DeleteHi Toysailor, wait for my next article, I am writing an article specifically about SIM degrees. You are gonna love it. Akan datang.
DeleteNeoplasm, as for the key to succeeding in finance, I learnt a lot in NS ironically. In NS, in my unit, I worked for someone who was a real fanatic about following the rules in every aspect of everything we did and I had to do things exactly as he said. Kinda Singaporean eh? In finance, I listened to my boss's brief, he would tell me exactly what he wanted and I had to deliver. A good listener who follows instructions and a fast learner who's willing to just get on with the job. Sorry if this sounds a bit vague, but let me give you a simple analogy.
Imagine if a student graduated with a diploma from some chef school and learnt a lot about cooking, then gets work in a bakery that does one thing: pineapple tarts. The graduate gets there and realizes, oh shit, they only do one thing? I cannot express my creativity? Can I even make variations of the same pineapple tarts? No, the boss screams, people come to our shop because they love our pineapple tarts, we have made the same pineapple tarts for 50 years and if you even change the recipe for one tart, I will fire you because that's not what our customers want - so here's our recipe and you jolly well follow it.
So you see, you are just a cog in a wheel when you become a junior employee in fund management. You have to work pretty long before you get to open your mouth and offer and opinion. (Hence why I said NS was good training.)
As for derivatives, yeah I used to eat, live and breathe derivatives because that was the basis of the hedge fund that my American boss ran (he was my boss for 5.5 years). In the right hands, he knows how to manipulate them. In the wrong hands, people make mistakes because they don't understand the risks. I left the complex work to my American boss and just sold the product he created.
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ReplyDeleteThanks Neoplasm. I have left finance (though was flirting with the idea of working for this guy in Corporate Finance last year - if he makes me a lucrative offer, I'll go work for him) - but right now, I was thinking, clearly I have certain skills on the sales, marketing, biz dev, but why don't I apply those skills to my own company instead of working for someone else? I am trying to get my own company off the ground in 2016 and fingers crossed, it will take off later this year.
DeleteFund managers have proven track records. They make the mega big bucks. I buy into their funds, they manage them.A diploma-holder will not get his foot in the door. It is irresponsible for NYU to offer this program. At most, the diploma-holder will end up being a financial advisor. As for managing your money yourself, Neoplasm, I suggest you leave it to fund managers who actually do this for a living. These people make the big bucks doing so. If they don't do well, their heads are on the line. I have been happy with my funds. I don't think about them. I leave them to the experts. The key is to diversify.
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DeleteI diversify because it is my retirement portfolio. I am looking at the long term. By diversifying my funds, I have been able to ride recessions. If I am looking to make a quick buck in the immediate future, I will certainly look at one or two blue chips and cash in when it is in the 20-30% rate of return. However, I am a safe investor. I don't like risks, and leaving a diversified portfolio in the hands of several funds managers is the way to go as anyone will tell you. I once bought shares at $3.00 + and sold at $34.00 +. That was a sweet deal. However, that was my husband's company that went public. We had faith in it. For retirement portfolios, diversification is crucial no matter how savvy an investor you are. Keep that in mind when you are looking into that.
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DeleteYou are right Alex. I have a contact who was offered a scholarship to study in some top Japanese university where she graduated as Valedictorian. She work with Aberdeen as analyst for some years before leaving and currently she has left to join a private fund management company as portfolio manager. There is no way some average Joe is getting a break into fund management like that. At most you will end up with a back office job which is easily cut when a downturn (like now) occurs.
ReplyDeleteI also doubt the quality of NYP Diplomas since i'm currently taking one and some of the materials are so outdated.
Hi Choaniki - thanks for your comment, the fact is that fund management companies do employ a lot of people. I worked on the sales & marketing side and I stick to what I do best - I flog stuff, you have a product to get to market, to sell to investors, I make it happen. So you need not necessarily need to become a fund manager per se to get a job in the industry, plenty of people do get good jobs in the industry. However, as a more general point about learning about business at universities - I seriously question the quality of education there. I had proven myself in the business world whilst having a totally unrelated degree - okay, I did French as part of my degree and French was useful when dealing with Swiss, Belgian, Canadian and French clients - but that was kinda like the icing on the cake (since they spoke English too) and everything else, I learnt in the business world, not in a classroom.
DeleteMost of your points about the "finance" education applies to IT too, with the exception of instructors.
ReplyDeleteIn the IT education (based of the graduates I have worked with and interviewed), the actual full time instructors are kind of "out-of-date" with their methodologies, like what you have mentioned, they might have been out of the industry and gone into academics far too long. But as far as I know of, polytechnics are trying to improve this situation by engaging those in the industry to teach part-time.
Another reason for the disengage between what is being taught and what is needed is because of the nature of the IT industry. This is not just happening in Singapore but everywhere else in the world too. Colleges are spamming the market with IT graduates but yet the industry is still in great need of developers(which is why most of us are probably overworked), which most graduates fail the role. Education as an industry is trying its best to address this problem but at the same time, is clueless about what qualities or training are required for the roles. Software development as an industry, is also struggling to quantify what is needed for these roles. The reason why companies like Google and Apple are now reaching out to colleges other than the Ivy Leagues is due to the realization that some of the best hackers/developers out there do not come from any IT background or Ivy League colleges. So everyone is struggling to figure out how to train new developers. Meanwhile, education as an industry, continues to profit from churning IT graduates.
That's true Wei Ping, that's so true. I will be doing another piece on jobs in IT very soon, but since that is not my background, I will be interviewing an IT expert for his opinion, you can look forward to that piece. That's the problem with degrees & universities in general: I think the way to approach it is just to treat it as a piece of paper to show off, see? I'm so smart I got into this prestigious university, that proves I'm a clever boy. That's kinda it. Well I did French at university and was drilled through loads of hours of French at university, but it was actually living in Paris - speaking French and not English everyday, that made me truly fluent in French. In hindsight, did I need a degree or did I just need to become fluent in French (without going to university)?
DeleteI love the point you made about hackers/developers. Bear with me, I will cover that not in the next post, but the one after that, ok?
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DeleteAkan datang - I will be talking about coding soon in a piece in the near future, that is really so important for the next generation, for young people like you.
DeleteAlex, I think Wei Ping and Neoplasm "get it". In many industries like IT you don't need to be from those good Unis to do well. Like I mention in one of my comments, the founders or WhatsApp and AirBnB are not from good Unis. And my new hero, who believes strongly in welfare to help people and immigration regardless of skills for people to seek a better life in UK, Jeremy Corbyn doesn't even have a degree. And he is now leader of the U.K. Labour Party. And he is out arguing the "well educated" British PM from Oxford. What an awesome guy!! I hope labour trashes the Tories in the nxt election.
ReplyDeleteDon't look down on these poly grads...who knows some of them will be the nxt warren buffet. Thanks @Wei Ping and @Neoplasm for believing in people from not so Gd Unis.
James, haven't you learn your lesson already? Listen, uncle Limpeh here is older than you, wiser than you and has done a lot more in the working world than you - so you don't get to come here and tell me things like "don't look down on blah blah blah" - I do whatever the fuck I want, I'll look down on poly grads if I want, I'll look down on you and insult you if you want (wait till you read my latest post on SIM graduates) and if you don't like what I have to say, you can go read another blog on the internet, but what makes you think that I will actually listen to you and do as you say - when I have clearly gone out of my way to insult you, mock you, belittle you and make it exceedingly clear to you that I look down on you and thus, wouldn't listen to what you have to say? I mean, I'm approving your comments on my blog out of courtesy (as you've read my piece and bothered leaving a comment - thanks for that), but you really need to realize, in case I haven't made it clear enough already, that I think you're an idiot, I look down on you and I don't take advice from idiots.
DeleteAs for the IT industry, after I complete my piece on insulting the hell out of SIM graduates (bwahahaha akan datang, just you wait for it), I will do a piece on the IT industry where I will be interviewing a gatekeeper in the IT industry. There are people who don't have a degree or didn't go to a good university who have gone on to achieve great things in life - but let's be clear, they succeeded despite not having gotten a good degree, not because they went to some shitty university. You have a serious problem here when you try to link their success later in life to their poor choice of universities. There is a huge difference between "despite of" and "because of" - you don't seem to get that, you just wanna see what you wanna see to make you feel better about yourself. Talk about delusional.
As for Corbyn, do you realize that he is actually 69 years old? He will turn 70 this spring. He is very old. When he turned 20 in 1966, the world was a very different place and very few people made it to university then. Graduates were indeed rare in the 1960s even in the UK and times have changed a lot in the last 50 years - young people are under so much more pressure to get more training and education before they can apply for well-paid jobs and degrees are so much more common today compared to the 1960s. If you were trying to join the work force in the 1960s, then fine, you didn't need a degree then - Corbyn managed to get a job without a degree and proven himself in the work place over the last 50 years. But times have changed - it is 2016 today and society's attitudes about graduates and degrees have changed a lot since. Go ahead and like Corbyn if you think he's so awesome, but just because he got away with not going to good university back in the 1960s doesn't mean that the same rules apply to you in 2016 - 50 years have passed, in case you haven't noticed.
As for Labour trashing Tories in the next election - HAHAHAHAHA! Do the maths. I'm a Lib Dem supporter for the record and I am also a maths geek. It's just not statistically possible after the SNP wiped Labour out in Scotland. You can't argue with statistics. Corbyn will lead Labour into the next election, lose by a landslide, quietly quit after that and they will choose a new leader after that. He's going to be 74 years old in 2020 when we next have an election - many say that his age is going to work against him and Labour will want a new leader. Who knows if he will survive as Labour leader till then?
Oh and how do I put this to you delicately. Weiping and Neoplasm are not on your side, they are looking down at you as well and they probably share my disdain for your idiocy. The only difference is that they are polite people who are not calling you names whilst Limpeh takes great joy in mocking you.
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Delete@neoplasm, you are right. But it is not talent that drives success, but sheer hard work. How many hours is james willing to put into working with apis, frameworks and libraries ? A lot of us spent years working with them and on them and we are still not willing to call ourselves experts.
DeleteOn a side note, winning a hackathon is not a proof of good coding practices. It only shows that one can think fast on their feet and type fast.
Hahahaha. Neoplasm, let's put it this way lah. (And I know you are going to accuse me of being nasty again.) If there was any suggestion that James was going to be amongst that special, exceptional 0.0001% who have that X-factor and could go on to do something amazing, then surely there would be some hint of that X-factor by now? You don't go from being an ordinary average guy to someone totally spectacular overnight.
DeleteYou know, people have said the same thing about my nephew lah. He's autistic and people have been telling me that kids with Asperger's syndrome will have some special gift with maths and numbers (I have no idea where they got that impression from) - but after I saw what he scored for maths at PSLE , I can report that he's just an average kid with Asperger's syndrome, he's definitely not gifted in maths (if anything he struggles with it but is good in other things). People jump to all kinds of conclusions because they want to believe in something, despite there being no hard evidence to support their version of what they would like things to be.
Oh, dear. I think James is fixated with welfare and claiming an equal share of the spoils without actually having the wherewithal of credentials and skills. There are elements of Marxism in this approach to society and how the elite should take care of the plebeians. Better yet, erase elitism and celebrate mediocrity. Share the spoils. Delusional! James, there is seriously something wrong with you.
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DeleteAiyah, my regular readers will know one thing about me - I don't suffer fools gladly. I don't go out of my way to bully people who are below average - that's just plain unkind and I'm not like that. However, someone like James is indeed below average yet he wants to be treated the same as everyone else, including people who are above average and I'm like - hello? Are you a kid at primary school and am I your primary one form teacher? What planet are you on? (Look out for my latest article where I will cover this issue in detail.)
DeleteI was very lucky to receive the right kind of grooming as you described - some brilliant teachers and coaches along the way believed in me and I guess it was pure luck that I had met these great people. So my 'elitism' or 'elite position' doesn't stem from my parents being any kind of elite bourgeoisie aristocrats - heck, you know my father is this retired uncle/Ah Peh in Ang Mo Kio who doesn't speak English, right?
As for the savant syndrome - you have one again, hit the nail on the head, yeah about 10% or so, and my nephew is amongst the other 90% - ie. he's average though a lot of people are in denial about that. My parents especially, they see him playing some computer games and they think that he is about to do something brilliant mathematically with the tablet (my parents are too old to understand how to use computers) whilst I just see a kid playing computer games - as kids do. Duh.
I think Singaporeans watch too much movies. They think being autistic means the body will compensate by being more heightened in other areas but it just doesn't work that way.
DeleteThere are savants and then there are megasavants like Kim Peek (inspiration of the movie Rainman). He was able to do the payrole of an entire company on his own and it took a computer and 2 accountants to replace him. Watch his documentary here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k2T45r5G3kA
And also there is this musical savant called Derek Paravicini who is able to reproduce music pitch perfectly after hearing it once. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bplep74Uxs
These are rarer than 10% probably even less than one. Some savant might have not so useful abilities like calculating Pi quickly or seeing in colour etc. I have a younger brother with aspergers and the only ability he has is that he is awkward around people.
Yup. Your younger brother sounds like my nephew - he tends to retreats into his computer games rather than be social, awkward is not the word my family would use lah, they prefer the word 'shy' which is a bit kinder, but we're essentially describing the same thing.
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DeleteWell Neoplasm,
Delete1. Point taken about compassion. Perhaps I do come across as rather harsh in my writing but I'm not as mean as I sound, honest. Sometimes we write things we would never say in real life. I disagree with you about the key quality of a UK Upper class person is the ability to make anyone regardless of background feel comfortable with them - that's a trait called empathy + a good deal of natural ability to read a person's character quickly and understand someone well enough to relate to them on their wavelength. That's an amazing ability that some people have - it's got little to do with class status. Many upper class Brits are snobs who have little or no empathy I'm afraid.
2. I'm comfortable. I don't work hard, I get plenty of sleep, I do loads of holidays, I enjoy going to the gym loads and I have the luxury of time on my hands to do the things in life that makes me happy. I have a good friend who has a better job than me, earns more money than me, yet he is under a lot of pressure from work, his money has to pay for his kids' education and he isn't in great health. I don't even think he's that happy most of the time - I think happiness is more important than any label (like 'elite') we can stick on ourselves. In the eyes of the world, yeah this friend is probably elite - but so what? It's just words, a label.
Hello Limpeh, my name is Gabriel and I will be 23 this year. I came across your blog when surfing the net today while at lunch. I wished I had read this blog years earlier because I never really had guidance from someone older who knew how life worked and could answer my questions. I am writing this because I feel confused about how I should proceed with my life. I've made many decisions in my life that I wished I could take back but I know it's pointless to think about the what ifs... so here I go.
ReplyDelete-I have just finished National Service in September 2015. I was just a 3rd Sergeant at an Air Base. My main operation there was to take care of an air to ground firing range. I was in charge of a few other guys, we would stay on the island for 4-5 days at a time on our own. We also liaised with outside contractors who did the maintenance of sensitive equipment there.
-I have a Diploma in Social Sciences (Social Work). I was idealistic at 16 and I wanted to help people for a living. My score could have pushed me into one of the lesser JCs but I chose to go for this course because of my views at the time. Plus, I would not have to deal with the ridicule of going to the other helping profession, nursing. (That was a thing amongst my group of friends then but we all know better now). Long story short, I really regretted my decision. After my first intern ship during the course I was disillusioned at how much red tape there was how much I couldn't do. I lost interest and subsequently, my GPA just flopped. In hindsight, I should have kept my grades up but I was an idiot that couldn't think about the consequences then.
-I was heavily involved in my CCA at the time. I was in TKD and trained a lot. At one point I had considered taking it more seriously and wanted to join the national squad after showing marked improvement and doing decently well at a few local tournaments. Sadly, my training schedule hurt my knees and my back and even though I have since recovered, I am no longer in any shape to do what I used to do. I've also not attained coach status so I am unable to be a coach even though I really want to.
-Currently, I am working at a ministry as a survey supervisor. It's an interesting job, I mostly deal with respondents that my interviewers on the ground cannot handle. I do get some customer service experience this way and I also get a chance to brush up on my mandarin which is admittedly not one of my strong points.
-I have no idea what my next step is. Everyone around me is telling me I should go and get a degree. However, for the longest time I haven't wanted to because I do not have an interest in anything. Sometimes I feel like a joke because I could probably read and tell you about random little facts that you have probably never heard of(like how ice cream originated in China) or have an animated discussion with facts and statistics on how most effective to play a certain video game (DOTA, but that's not really relevant) But I cannot for the life of me sustain enough interest in any subject that I could possibly study. I keep telling myself that if I could just find the right topic, I would have the passion to carry it into work. Unfortunately, time doesn't stop just because I need it to. Thus far, the only thing that seems to catch my interest is in finding out why certain businesses are so successful and why others are not but I have no idea how that's going to earn me any money. It's not like I actually own a business to be telling others what works and what doesn't.
-To sum it up, I am sorry for the long rant. Maybe it had information that you did not need to know. I have read some of your other articles and I have a small idea of how I should proceed (such as sending a direct email to industries of interest). I cannot really leave my job right now to do an intern ship as I need the money to pay my part of the monthly bills and for savings if I were to go study a degree. I would really appreciate any advice you can give me. Thank you very much for reading!
Hi Gab. Thanks for your message. Can you be a bit more specific about what you want me to tell you - you just kinda told me your life story and asked for advice. I really don't know where to begin. Perhaps it's because I've had a really long day at work and it's nearly 1 am now and I'm all zonked out. I'm more than happy to offer you my opinion and POV for what it's worth, but can you be more specific about what you're after (is it about getting a degree? or what kind of job you should be doing etc?) Thanks.
DeleteDo not quit your job yet. I would suggest starting a side project to improve the conditions of your workplace, for example, automating certain processes. Such projects will force you learn skills, methods and mindsets that are actually marketable to any industry. If your project grows to a resonable size and is capable of getting revenue that is comparable to your day job, you could form a start-up based off that project.
DeleteI know I am over-generalising things but it remains as a possibility.
I'm sorry for rambling on previously, I should have been more concise! I would like it if you could tell me if there is any job that would fit me? I can read fast and I like knowing about facts. Although I would very much prefer to just look at statistics and figure out how things work as I am usually not a people person, I do push myself to get jobs that speak with people as I believe effective communication is a good skill to have and I can say that I am good at explaining things to people because of it. I know it is not very much to go on but that is me in a nutshell. Thanks!
DeleteHi Gab, no worries. I can't really tell you which job would fit you that easily - I think the most important question you need to ask yourself is which job would make you the most happy, what activity can you envision yourself waking up every morning, excited to pursue? I know of too many people who pursue certain careers for the wrong reason (for the money, to get the skilled migrant visa, to please their parents) etc and they never once thought about what makes them happy. You know what you're good at my friend - but can you tell me what makes you happy? (And by the process of elimination, what kind of jobs would make you miserable?)
DeleteMy first choice of a job right out of NS was to be a temporary teacher, but that didn't work out because of my qualifications. I like the idea of teaching but i'm not too sure how i should proceed on to that field because I don't think I qualify for NIE. I also love animals and learning about them, but I do not have the qualifications to be a vet. I have thought about becoming a zoologist but I'm not too sure how far that will get me. So if you ask me what really makes me happy, I would say anything to do with animals or teaching in general. I like educating people with the facts that I do know of and have discussions with them about the topics I enjoy.
DeleteAs for what would depress me, business in general really. Nothing to do with the field, I think the field of business is really profound and I am always impressed by my friends and colleagues who have the guts to be entrepreneurs. However, I do not wish to go into business or finance for my own personal reasons. Also, I suspect I do not have this business acumen that a lucky few possess. The only exception would be if it was a social enterprise but even then, probably not. Basically, I just dislike dealing with finance and business. I have 0 interest in it. I do enjoy reading about businesses and how they came about however. So jobs like being a banker, fund manager, businessman, etc. I would be unhappy with. I would make enough money that would make the other people in my life very happy I suspect and sometimes I wonder if I should just go down that route, but this was about me and not them.
Hi Gab, there's more than one way to enter the teaching profession. You need not necessarily become a full time teacher - loads of people teach in quite specialist areas that fall outside the standard school curriculum. Without knowing more about you, I don't know what makes you happy and what area of teaching you would excel at, but that's something you can think about. For example, I know someone who teaches kids how to code (that's so vital for the future) - that falls way outside the standard curriculum for their school stuff.
DeleteIf you love animals, there are so many attractions in Singapore (the zoos, RWS, Jurong bird park) which entail working with animals - have you thought about that? I was at the night safari last year and met a woman who ran the animal show there, she was absolutely brilliant. There's a lot you can do within tourism & animals.
It does sound like you need some further qualifications before you can embark on a new career - but maybe some more work experience in the meantime will guide you to the right choice.
Hello again,
DeleteI have thought about working at the zoo as a junior keeper just to get a taste of what it is like. I'll be sure to look into that as an option after my current job. I think I will put teaching aside for now, it is an interest of mine to teach but I am aware I am not good enough at any one field yet to be able to teach anyone as of yet.
As for further qualifications, any suggestions on what would be useful? Your recent article on private degrees have made me a little more cautious about the kind of education I spend my money on. Going overseas to study is not an option at this point. I have actually considered taking private 'A' levels but I don't think I have the luxury of time any more. Or should I just focus my efforts on getting a wealth of job experience and if so could you give me any advice on going down this route such as what job experience would be attractive to hiring companies? I have nobody around me that has actually gone down this path so I would like to get your input on this. Thank you once again.
Hi again Gab, I think there are a lot of opportunities in teaching, beyond what the limited syllabus provides. So many parents want their kids to get ahead in life, so in the UK, we see kids learning everything from Mandarin to coding outside school - they pay a lot for it, so it does fulfill two of your purposes if you can identify one area in that scope you can teach: firstly, it will be financially lucrative, secondly, you will enjoy your job.
DeleteHmmm. As for further qualifications, they need to serve you well - so please don't put the horse before the cart. You need to identify what you want to do for your career, before you select the right qualifications which will lead you to your dream job. You don't get the qualifications first then try to figure out what job you can do with that piece of paper.
Hi Gab, have you had any further thoughts on your career options?
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ReplyDeleteWell I have friends in Singapore who did take the poly route but every single one of them did go on to do a degree eventually as they were not content with just a diploma. My only gripe is that they usually end up taking longer (3 years poly, 3 years uni) as opposed to (2 years JC, 3 years uni).
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DeleteYes Neoplasm, it is true that some unis will allow you to skip a year but that is only when there is sufficient overlap between the course content of your diploma and the syllabus of the uni course - and even if that is the case, there's no guarantee they will agree to that because they may say, "oh yes the same topic is covered, but we look at it in much greater depth than what you did at poly, so you cannot skip this module etc." Furthermore, if you decide to pursue something slightly different at uni (say after you complete your diploma, your NS and you discover that you'll rather take yourself in a slightly different direction - that happens), then if there is no overlap (or insufficient overlap) with your diploma, then it is 3 + 3 years as opposed to 2 + 3 years. No skipping.
DeleteNot true in some cases. If you had read similar modules to what the University offers, while at Poly, the administration might offer you exemptions. From my own experience, I did not have to take almost a year's worth of modules.
DeleteThat being said it may not always be a good idea. I feel Poly modules tend to be more hands-on focused but concepts and theories are better explained at University level. If time was not a factor, you could forego the exemptions and have the best of both worlds.
Ayhtas, what about those who wish to take a degree which is not directly relevant to their poly diploma? One can only save time and skip modules if there is sufficient overlap. The JC route gives the student more freedom of choice when it comes to picking a degree, the poly route restricts your choice to degrees directly relevant to your diploma, if you are counting on skipping a year.
DeleteAlex, there is another route for students for will want to pursue the JC route instead of the poly route although they are suitable for only poly route.
DeleteIt is called Millinea Institutes. This is the JC route but it take 3 years to complete instead of the usual 2 years just like poly students who take 3 year to complete their diploma.
Will you recommend them this routes?
Hi Kelvin, back in my day (a loooong time ago), there was something similar as well, I think they called them pre-U institutes. Same thing, same deal: 3 years for A levels. I think that as long as you get the right results at the end of the day (ie. good A level results to get you into the university of your choice - a good university, not SIM) then yeah, why not?
DeleteOK People the wait is over! http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/q-what-is-wrong-with-degrees-from.html
ReplyDeleteHi Limpeh, I came across your article from a link in another blog, the post about choosing the right education dedicated to Peixian. I want to say a big thank you to the super helpful insights into the fund management industry and the importance of getting into the right university.
ReplyDeleteI’m a 21 year old NSF and have 6 more months left in army till ord (so near yet so far..), and have gotten a place in SMU business. About 2 years back I got very interested in the compounding effect and started reading as many financial books I can find and started investing. I still am very inspired by famed investors such as Warren Buffet & Peter Lynch’s success stories and aspire to work in Graham-Newman like hedge fund (Since I haven’t stepped into the industry I can’t say if I’d actually like fund managing or being an analyst yet...)
I have been trying to get more connected in the industry by joining local investing Meetup groups, attending crazy expensive investment classes & workshops with my army pay and have met some people in finance industry such as a French quants analyst, CFA holders that are trying to get into the industry and sought their advice regarding my passion. Thankfully they also strongly advised against private diploma so I made the switch from SIM uni >NTU biz then finally >SMU biz.
I’m am still feeling very uncertain about getting into this industry as it seems to be shrouded in some sort of secrecy and I haven’t found someone who could gave me like legit insights into the industry (like how is working life like? Progression and any resources for me to learn)
So Limpeh may I ask for your advice on what kinds of internship should I seekout progressively for my Uni (As my degree is 4 years) and what companies should I aim for as I’m in Singapore. I don’t mind travelling overseas or working long hours so long as I get a chance to be taught and an opportunity to progress the ladder I’m absolutely game.
Also, currently I have this ideology that makes me only consider funds that practice value type of investing because I keep reading of advice that Value is the method that stood the test of time. Am I being delusional given that less hedge funds practice value investing approach (meaning less opportunities). I really have no idea what to expect in the industry and how to best prepare and learn about it, and my parent’s advice of going for civil jobs to work for government isn’t helping much either.
If you could spare me any sage advice I’ll be really, really thankful from across a thousand miles (since you’re not in Singapore).
Sincerely,
Gerald Ong
Hi Gerald, the post for Peixian was written years ago - yet I am so glad it is still helping people today, that's very rewarding for me as a blogger. :) Your comment has put a smile on my face.
DeleteI'm afraid I can't offer you that much help in terms of internships as I have never studied in Singapore and when I worked in Singapore, it was as an expatriate for a company operating out of Luxembourg and I never really got anywhere near a Singaporean intern in that period.
I did once work at a company in London where they received interns from a business school in France - the students got to improve their English in return for some valuable work experience. But all this was because the company had a well established relationship with the university/business school - hence the students were placed with the help of the school's programme director, it wasn't like they had to source these opportunities themselves. So I am afraid in this aspect, you are going to have to rely on the people at SMU who will help you I'm sure.
Oh and don't worry about your parents - I'm sure their inability to offer useful advice isn't a reflection of how much they care for you; it's just an area they will not be able to help you with. I'm sure your time at uni will open your eyes to the opportunities for you out there - in the meantime, keep your head down, do loads of reading and the last 6 months of NS will pass by pretty quickly. I still remember we had a tradition in my unit - we called it the 100 Plus day. You know that drink yeah? When someone had 100 days to ORD, he had to buy a crate of 100 Plus and hand out a can to everyone in the unit to celebrate being on the final stretch, where you can see the finish line. 6 x 30 = 180 days? You're so near your 100 Plus celebration. Even if you don't wanna treat everyone in your unit to a drink, at least make sure you buy yourself a can on that day, okay? :)
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DeleteHahah I'm glad I could send a smile too Limpeh :) There are loads of useful, timeless gold nuggets of information which I know will definitely help a lot more people in the future.
DeleteAnd yes it's just a few more months till my 100plus day! Thank you so much for the advice, will surely keep my eyes peeled for any opportunities in army and Uni.
In the meantime I look forward to reading more of your worldly wisdom in career and life.
As compared to poly, its also cheaper to enter university via the jc route =)
ReplyDeleteWell that's a fair point. JCs are relatively cheap for 2 years that will set you up for university.
DeleteHi Limpeh, this is Gerald here, sorry to trouble you but may I ask if you could check your comments spam/awaiting moderation as I have left you a comment there. Once again thank you for all the informative articles you've written to guide lost chaps like me
ReplyDeleteAaaaah! I found your comment there with quite a few others! OK let me try to respond to all of those. Please bear with me.
DeleteNeed your advice. Relating to a "Good" Uni degree for fund management job, do the gatekeepers think highly of NUS/NTU/SMU degree?
ReplyDeleteOr is it better to go overseas at a top tier UK/US/OZ Uni?
Hi Tong, I think it depends on the gatekeeper per se - every gatekeeper is unique and I think that a degree from NUS/NTU isn't going to make you look bad at all, given the rather high entry requirements. But say your gatekeeper did study overseas and felt that the experience was very useful in terms of teaching you soft skills to deal with international clients, then yeah. I take it you're still a student and are trying to decide which uni to go to - and guess what? I don't have a simple answer for you, it all depends on the individual gatekeeper you encounter. Everyone will have his/her opinion on the issue.
DeleteFor me, I look at the bigger picture, not just the degree. So by that token, the degree doesn't matter as much.