Wednesday 18 November 2015

Assimilation and French society: double standards?

Some people have accused me of defending the French attitude when it comes to assimilation in the wake of the recent terrorist attacks in Paris. As the guy from Ang Mo Kio who went to live, study and work in France and had an absolutely amazing time when I was there,  the least I can do is to try to explain this aspect of French culture because they are not going to change and if you have a problem with it, then well, that's probably because you don't understand it well enough. You may not like what I am going to say but I'll appreciate it if you took the time to read it.
That's me at the Place de la Republique in happier times. 

Many nations in the West have a large minority made up of migrants - from Canada to Germany to Australia to America to the UK - this is not unique to France, but where France stands out in this aspect is their absolute resolve in insisting that all migrants must assimilate. All countries go to some extent to try to integrate their new migrants by offering them help to fit into their new country, but France goes further than that: I can only describe it as a carrot-and-stick approach: offering a combination of rewards and punishment to induce behavior. Migrants who do assimilate are warmly welcomed and accepted by French society - those who do not however are ostracized to the margins of society. Note that this is not an official government policy set out in law, but rather one that is unofficially enforced in school playgrounds, in work places and in the streets all over France.

I can imagine people like my parents screaming bloody murder already, accusing the French of racism because migrants are expected to embrace all things French from the language to the culture - it doesn't necessarily mean giving up your language and culture of your country of origin, it just means having to learn a new language and about a new culture, the way I did. I still speak Hokkien and Mandarin today, all I did was study French to a very high standard too. No French person ever said to me that I must forget how to speak Chinese and speak only French if I wanted to live in France - they only asked that I speak French with them (and not any other language) whilst studying and working there. If anything, all the French people I've met have been very impressed by the way I have mastered so many different languages and indeed, French people are far more multilingual than Singaporeans. In French high schools (the lycée), it is compulsory for all students to do two foreign languages to a high standard - one of those languages is usually English and the other can be anything from German to Spanish to Russian to Mandarin. This means that any well-educated French person is trilingual, compared to most Singaporeans who are at best bilingual.
I have truly embraced all things French.

But let me turn this around for you: imagine if you wanted to convert to Islam and you visited your local mosque. The Imam there is very welcoming and happy to explain Islam to you - but as you find out about what it means to be a Muslim, you start picking and choosing. "Oh I really wanna become a Muslim thing but I will have a problem with the fasting. Like can I just fast for a few hours during Ramadan as a symbolic gesture as I get really moody when I am very hungry. Oh and this whole thing about the halal diet, can I make an exception like once a week or on public holidays to eat pork because I grew up eating pork and I really like bacon? And this praying five times a day thing, I don't think it's going to be compatible with my work schedule, can I just make up for it by praying twice a day but praying a lot longer each time I pray?" The Imam will probably look at you in disbelief and tell you that those are the rules and that they are not negotiable. The bottom line is that if you want to become a Muslim, then you have to follow the rules of Islam. Such are the rules - you can't pick and choose what you like, this is not a menu at a restaurant.

Now in the example of the hypothetical situation, you would most certainly take the side of the frustrated Imam and condemn the attitude of the person who is trying to pick and choose what rules he wants to follow and which he wants to ignore. So why is it so hard to understand the French people in the way they have insisted that immigrants have to become French if they want to live in France and be accepted by French society? What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander - why the double standards then? Let's compare this to the UK, where the situation is somewhat different. British people do not insist on assimilation the way the French do; rather, they follow a model of a "multi-cultural society". The Brits accept that British society is made up of people of different cultures, faiths and backgrounds and that we must all respect and tolerate this diversity in order for us to get along. Anyone who starts insisting that migrants learn how to speak English or assimilate is often deemed to be either a right wing extremist or a racist.
Has the recent terrorist attack made French people question their attitude?

What is frustrating about the British model though, is that there is still this division between someone who is English (ie. white, Anglo-Saxon) and someone who is British but of a non-white ethnic origin. Ironically, this is far less the case in Wales where identity of being Welsh is increasingly tied up with a knowledge of the Welsh language, rather than with any definition based on the colour of one's skin. With English being the most widely spoken language in the world (including those who speak it as a second or foreign language, not just native speakers), the English language doesn't really define Britishness the way the French or Welsh language plays such a big part in France and Wales. In France, you can be black or Asian and still be considered 100% French - whereas in the UK, you can be born and bed in this country but if your skin is of the wrong colour, you are at best British, but never considered truly English. Quite simply, the French system is colour-blind and based on an acceptance of French identity and in my humble opinion, that makes it a far superior and less racist system. I make no bones about it: I prefer the French system.

I have lived, studied and worked in France. From my experience, I have observed that the most successful minorities in France are those who have assimilated extremely well into French society. Here's the pattern I've observed: the first generation of migrants usually struggle with the language and that pushes them to the margins of society. The second generation of migrants is the crucial part of the equation: if they can get pass the language barrier (we're talking about children of migrants born in France, who grew up in France and were educated in French schools), then they are the ones who are usually much better assimilated. In rare instances, you get migrants like myself who take just a few years to get over the language barrier - I studied at one of the top universities in France and have worked in France using French (not English) as the primary language of communication. I know it sounds extremely simplistic on my part, but if far more effort was spent making sure new migrants actually get pass the language barrier, they would have access to better education and jobs  and would not be pushed to the margins of society: isolated, ostracized and angry. Migrants will not become radicalized when they have a good education, good jobs and a very good future.
And yet the ghettos exist and they are grim places. The focus of the investigations today have been on the neighbourhood of Molenbeek in Brussels, a Muslim ghetto that is unfortunately notorious of radicalized Muslims. As unreal as it seems, I have met immigrants in France who don't speak French. Therein lies a really difficult quagmire: the balance between the ideals of "liberté, égalité, fraternité" and trying to deal with migrants who simply have little desire to assimilate. On one hand you want to give citizens the freedom (liberté) to pick their beliefs, you want to ensure that everyone is equal, that your society is defined by equality (égalité) regardless of culture or religion - but most of all, the French value fraternity (fraternité): a sense of belonging and community. Can you truly foster a sense of fraternity without sacrificing some liberty (in forcing migrants to assimilate) and equality (in establishing that French values are superior than foreign ones)? In an ideal world, this can be done indeed with migrants like me who loved and adored all things French - but when you have migrants who simply do not share that same love for France, there are no easy solutions. However, just because it is a tricky topic doesn't mean we should sweep it under the carpet.

So there you go. I hope I have managed to explain why the French system is different but is anything but racist. I hope to stimulate a conversation, answer any questions you may have and help spread understanding. Perhaps my Singaporean readers can reflect upon this issue of assimilating new migrants as you welcome more migrants from China. In any case, let's talk about it and have a meaningful conversation please. Many thanks for reading, merci bien.

45 comments:

  1. Regardless of the French attitude towards migrants, bottom line is if you choose to live there, you have to toe the line. It is very black and white. Even if the French were nasty racists, you chose it. Obviously it is a better option than your home country or you wouldn't be there. Why complain when you picked it? Surely if your motherland was better , you wouldn't be in France? Assimilate, you must.

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  2. The call for assimilation among immigrants may not be racist, but it is definitely xenophobia. These immigrants are running away from a land made hostile because of civil war. A civil war funded by Western countries of which France is one. These migrants if they had a choice would love to be in the beloved homeland. But no thanks to the insane civil war which of course France is partly responsible, these migrants are forced to seek a place where they believe there would be peace. Unfortunately, it looks like the warmongers have followed them to France too.

    All these migrants want is a decent life. Peace and no war. They did not seek to conquer France, nor did they seek to convert French to be Muslim. They want to live – as humans and not slaves to war.

    Rather than seeing immigrants as a problem who don't wish to assimilate, the French should ask themselves if they had triggered this migrant exodus in the first place. If they had the moral courage to admit that they were wrong in trying to interfere with Syria, Iraq and what not other internal affairs, this migrant exodus would not have existed.

    Think about it. When Saddam was the leader of Iraq, wasn't there peace and stability there? After he was disposed of by so called democratic nations, all hell broke loose. Failing to learn this painful lesson, the West powers (including France) now wants to get rid of Bashar in Syria. No need to be a rocket scientist to know what would happen next.

    So all this fear for immigrants in France while may not be racist, is definitely xenophobic. The immigrants just want to be away from war, yet French see them as the ones who bring war – not realising that the French themselves are part of the cause of this immigrant problem in the first place.

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    1. I politely disagree, with all due respect. I think we need to address the issue of immigration without xenophobia, but really it takes two to tango. Both parties need to work in a positive, constructive and co-operative manner towards a resolution to everyone can learn to live with each other in harmony. Hermit's attitude is such so incredibly defensive - blaming the West for all the things that have gone wrong; there's a huge difference between the foreign policies of some of these European countries and what actually goes on at a local level, amongst ordinary folks.

      You can wax lyrical all you want about foreign policy, but if you have say a Syrian family who are in France as refugees and their kids go to a local French school - the only way they are going to get the best out of that experience is to assimilate, learn French, speak French, participate in the school's activities and get a fine education, eventually go to a good French university (which is free BTW, thanks to the French state which values education).

      If you refuse to assimilate and stay isolated on the margins of society, sorry that's just bloody stupid - you are cutting off your thumb to spite your hand. I don't know where you are Hermit (Singapore perhaps? - Do you wish to share that info?) but put yourselves in the shoes of the refugees: like you said, all they want is a normal life, a brighter future for their children and you seem to refuse to take the path that will give them just that.

      You seem determined to be part of the problem, not the solution.

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  3. The same thing can be said in Malaysia and Japan.

    In Malaysia, as long as you are not Muslim, you will always be treated as second class citizen with many rightS being restricted on you.

    In Japan, if you do not conform with the society, you will always be viewed as "gaijin" in the negative way.

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  4. Assimilation is not xenophobia. One need not abandon one 's culture and identity to assimilate into the mainstream culture. As for Saddam ... mon Dieu! C'est ne pas vrai! There was no peace and stability during his dictatorial reign. He gassed his own people, for crying out loud! I am not saying that the war was right, but let's not go over board with the peace and stability nonsense. I don't see how asking for assimilation is a wrong thing on France's part. People are so quick to demand freedom from the western world but will not demand the same from the Islamic world. Do you think I can get away with wearing shorts and tank tops in the scorching Islamic desert ? I will probably be stoned for tempting the Muslims! I will respect the culture of the land I am in. Respect goes both ways.

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  5. May I know what is wrong with asking an immigrant to assimilate into their society? Why is asking an immigrant to assimilate into society. In France, you have the freedom to be Sunni, Shia, Ahmadiya, Mormon and Jehovah's Witness without fear of persecution. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

    You get to live in one of the freest place on Earth and asking you to speak France is too much? Personally, if these foreigners don't want to integrate, France should revoke whatever visa they have and send them back to their country.

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  6. I was fortunate enough to spend a few months in France studying, and I must say that I agree with you entirely with regard to speaking the language and integrating into French society-- we were expected to use French and only French at all times except during absolute emergencies, be it among ourselves, or with our host families, or with random strangers-- and I found that the majority of French people I met were usually open and willing to communicate with me if I spoke in French, imperfect as it might be, as opposed to just strolling up to someone and asking for something in English without even making an attempt in French.

    Despite being warned by numerous (Singaporean) relatives that the French are nasty and rude I've found them to be anything but, and I dare say I've personally encountered more instances where I've felt singled out on the basis of my skin colour and ethnic origin living in the US now as compared to my time in France where I was perhaps more obviously a foreigner.

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    1. Merci latenightjava! I think you and I are totally on the same wavelength :)

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  7. Hermit: what has coming from war torn countries got to do with assimilation? We are not asking for assimilation on the first day of arrival. It is a gradual process. I am sick of the expectations placed on western countries to be "sensitive" to the culture of other ethnic groups. Yet. when we go to their land. we are expected to respect their customs. What bullshit! Learn our language and then home and pray ten times (or not!), eat pork, don't eat pork, we don't care! Just respect our way of life.

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  8. Kelvin, I don't know why you want to bring in Malaysia. Minorities in Sg can claim the same too! If you are not Chinese, you are disadvantaged by SAP, ability to speak Mandarin when employers make that a criteria, etc. Each country has its own peculiar “racist or xenophobic” criteria.

    Di Talasi,
    Expecting assimilation is not xeno provided that immigrant CHOSE to arrive at host country out of free will. He wants to come to host country, he has to abide to host's rules. I am talking about REFUGEES who come to France not out of freewill, but because they were FORCED by circumstances.

    These refugees come to a land they believe will be a place for them to be away from war. They did not come to rule the hosts. They want to be left alone in peace. In all probability if peace returns to their homeland, they will gladly pack and leave and return home. That is where there heart is.

    The migrants who came to France on their own accord have probably migrated long before the ISIS crisis. They have probably long before today already assimilated with the French.

    So now folks, when you say “assimilate”, are you not trying to say that the refugees have to assimilate?

    Please have a thought for these poor souls and stop looking down at them as nothing but trouble makers out to usurp France and Europe. They are victims of war and violence, as much as the victims of the Paris bombing.

    As for the claim that Saddam gassed his own people, you should stop parroting the West's media. That gas Saddam had in his possession then was supplied by US. Saddam used that against the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq War. Saddam then was a US ally. Iran made a complaint to UN about the use of gas, but UN did nothing because Saddam then was US friendly. Ironic to think that it was the very gas US supplied that was the reason given for Bush to invade Iraq!

    Yet another Iraq-West irony is the very Iraqi nuclear power plant bombed by Israel (1980s), which purports it was a making bombs and not power. This facility was constructed by none other than FRANCE. The West world did nothing to even censure Israel. They bought Israel's story that it was for making bombs. Which incidentally and incredulously would implicate FRANCE as well!

    So Saddam was a beast? He was your ally, remember? He was assisted by US and France. You wanted him disposed? After you decided that he was of no longer of any use to you? Well, you forgot that it was because of him, Iraq was stable and the likes of ISIS never even got to see daylight. So now you want to get rid of Bashar of Syria? Right. Just accept the consequence then. Stop blaming the refugees who have nothing to do with it.

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    1. Hermit, if I was a Syrian refugee who was given asylum say in Sweden, the first thing I would do is throw myself into learning Swedish so I can get a better future in Sweden (regardless of whether I have the chance to return to Syria in the future). Unless you have a crystal ball that works, you cannot predict the future hence I would focus on the here and now, the immediate future, what I can do to improve the quality of my life in the country where I would have to spend the foreseeable future.

      Hermit, I don't know if you saw my recent vlog piece here: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/lift-vlog-episode-52-slovenian-coast.html I went to Slovenia for a day trip (that's right, I got the 7:45 am bus there and the 7:45 pm bus back) - that's 12 hours in a country and for that, I spent a few weeks studying Slovenian and as I bought my Cevapcici sandwich, the old lady selling me sandwich was stunned that a Chinese-looking foreigner like me could speak her language.

      And when I went to work in Prague years ago, same thing happened - I studied Czech for a few weeks before going there and then I was appalled by the Chinese migrant workers there who lived in their own little enclaves, working in Chinese restaurants and only speaking Mandarin. Never mind Czech, they didn't even speak English. I ended up speaking so much Czech that some of my Czech colleagues thought that I had lived in Prague for a while (but no, I had flown in from London just to work on that contract).

      This is the kind of effort I would put into learning a language just for a holiday or working a short contract abroad. Why do I do that? People in Slovenia and Czech Republic do speak English to a pretty high standard and I probably would have gotten by in just English - but I get so much MORE out of the experience there, I enjoy my interactions there with the locals so much more if I do speak THEIR language rather than English.

      I feel really frustrated that you make it sound like learning a foreign language is some horrible violation of their human rights or something equally inhumane and terrible - perhaps I am a geek (guilty as charged) but I totally enjoy sitting down and learning a new language. I gain so much out of the process, it makes me a better person and it will give me the ability to communicate with the locals in their language.

      So Hermit, how can that be a bad thing? Regardless of whether the refugees can or will return to their countries of origin eventually, they really should learn the language of whatever country they find themselves in because for the little effort they put into it, they will gain so much in return.

      As someone who works in finance, I know a good return in investment when I see one.

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    2. Oh and here's the link to my time working in Prague:http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/here-is-one-i-wrote-earlier-in-prague.html

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    3. LIFT, thanks for your input. Open discussion is good because it allows people to understand each other. As mentioned, I agree that migrants who come to host country with the intention to seek permanent residence have to abide to the host's customs. That is only polite to say the least. However, in the refugee case, they did not come out of their own freewill nor did they come to seek permanent residence. They came to escape war. To impose them a whole set of rules on them is not ethical nor fair. Their only concern is to be in a safe place.

      It is not like the refugees are going to look for work and live side by side with the locals. They are going to be couped up in refugee camps till a time comes for them to be relocated to a more permanent place. Maybe a few, very few, will end up with PR. But majority will be put up in camps. So what use to them to learn French and assimilate? For that matter, do you really think the French locals want these people to assimilate? You mean you want these refugees to freely roam on the streets, shopping malls, looking for jobs, getting their children to be in schooled in public institutions, walking into hospitals and health centres to seek medical treatment for common diseases? If not, why need to learn French and assimilate? To satisfy French ego that whoever is on France soil has to behave like a French?

      As an anology, let me give the hypothetical case where the Spratly dispute turns into a full scale war. Let's assume China, the biggest country, now bulldozes its way and war ensues. Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam get bombed. Singapore being so close to Malaysia cannot escape the violence and aerial bombings. Now a whole group of war refugees (Singaporeans included) look for a safe haven where China does not bomb. The place must be away from the bombing. It must have the space to accommodate millions refugees. It must be geographically close to the refugees' country of origin because the more you travel, be it on land or sea, the more vulnerable you become to attacks from pirates and people smugglers. For Singaporeans, the closest such place is Indonesia. Large space, short travel, less risk of attacks from bandits on the way to freedom from war-torn Singapore.

      But refugees coming to Indonesia won't have complete freedom. Indonesia won't allow these millions to roam about freely. In all probability, these refugees will be kept in refugee camps. Now what if the locals now demand that these refugees learn Bahasa Indonesia and assimilate Indonesian culture, which is basically Islam? And if you don't wish to assimilate or learn their language, you can leave just like that? See the unnecessary pressure on these refugees now? They didn't come to Indonesia because they love Indonesia more than their homeland. They came to run away from war. Why pressure these refugees who are already suffering?

      So what is the need for refugees to assimilate? The French truly want these migrants to walk around freely as they will and mix with them? They want refugees to blend into the crowd such that it becomes hard to identify if they truly are people with legal residency or a refugee? Really?

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    4. Hermit, whether refugees or foreign talent, they will always be a minority. So are you saying employer who do not hire a person because the person cannot speak the language that the employer want is racist?

      What I am trying to say here is that it do not just happen in Paris. It also happen in almost all the country around the world the important here is do you have the will the learn the language and the culture of the country?

      "When in Rome, do what the Roman do.",

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    5. Kelvin, what employer are you talking about? You mean that these refugees would be walking into job interviews just like that? These refugees won't even smell the streets of France. They will be in refugee camps. What need to learn French and assimilate?

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    6. Hermit, with all due respect, you're being utterly totally RIDICULOUS.

      I managed to pick up the basics of Slovenian in a matter of weeks, whilst studying in my free time. Likewise with languages from Czech to Sinhala to Vietnamese, gimme a few weeks and I can pick up the basics.

      I managed to become fluent in French in just a matter of like 2 years. And Welsh in the same amount of time.

      If I was a refugee stuck in a refugee camp with not that much to do, I'll gladly study a new language to enrich my mind and I will become fluent in that new language in a matter of months.

      I don't know what the hell is wrong with you - you sound like you've never even tried to study a second or foreign language in your life before: It is really not that hard.

      You are just being utterly totally condescending to refugees - like have you even met one? I have in Europe and some of them are the most amazing, inspiring, adaptable and MULTILINGUAL people I've met.

      And for the record, yes I speak Bahasa Indonesian too. So there. It's just a language, just learn it. It is no big deal - what's your problem? Can't learn/won't learn/too stubborn to learn? You have a brain - use it.

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    7. Lift, you still don't get my point. OK. Let's say I agree with you. Refugees should learn French. Good. So how is it done? Get French Language teachers to teach thousands of them at refugee camps? Does France have the resources? Release the refugees to mix with the locals and get them into French Language schools? Are there enough vacancies in those Language schools? Who is going to fund the lessons that is going to cost hundreds of thousands because there are thousands of refugees? The French tax payers?

      I have explained to you the practical aspects and challenges. Anyway, if the French want to waste their tax payers' money, I am OK with that. And I am sure the refugees with so much time on their hands would OK that too. Not only they get to be out of warzone but free French lessons as well! Why not? Oh? You expect them to pay for the lessons? With what? They emptied they pockets paying those pirates and bandits who brought them into France, remember?

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    8. No, you are the one with the problem and you are the one who is refusing to see sense. It is not that bloody hard to learn another language - you seem to be under the impression that unless one gets the best tuition from highly paid professionals that one simply cannot pick up another language. I remember meeting waiters in Tunisia who speak fluent Russian just to get more tips out of the Russian tourists - you think these Tunisians have money for Russian lessons? Of course not, they have managed to learn it. Likewise, I remember the Hmong girl who must have been no more than like 12 years old in Sapa, Vietnam who spoke Mandarin, French, English, Hmong and Vietnamese with the customers at her parents' shop to make money money out of the tourists - you think her parents had the money to send her to school to teach her 5 languages to a very high standard? No, she figured it out for herself. My Spanish and Italian are remarkably good - do you think I actually had a single lesson in Spanish or Italian in my life, like ever? No, never! It was all through self-study and I educated myself, I went online, found resources, got my hands on learning material, studied on my own, practiced with people whenever I got the chance and managed to become quite fluent in both Spanish and Italian without having taken a single lesson in my life, ever.

      People learn languages without spending thousands - it can be done. Duh. You need to go round the third world, open your fucking eyes and see how people in so many countries just fucking get on with life in imperfect situations - when their families and governments do not have the money or resources to pay for their ideal education, but people just get on with life, acquire the skills they need to get the jobs they want and fucking get on with life. Like I said, you sound like a pampered spoilt brat who expects everything to be handed to you on a fucking plate by mummy and daddy.

      Guess what? I have also met loads of refugees who showed as much determination to improve their lot in life by learning new languages, many becoming fluent in new languages in a remarkably short space of time. For crying out aloud, it's called learning a new language - no one is asking you to grow a third arm or a third eye - it's not so fucking impossible. Loads of people learn new languages everyday and perhaps Hermit, you're fucking hopeless and stupid when it comes to learning new languages and okay, that's your problem and your downfall, your funeral - but please don't assume that refugees around the world share your fucking dismal pessimism and LOSER attitude on the issue of learning a new language. So many refugees have picked up new languages over the years without waiting for someone to spoonfeed them the language (fuck, you sound like a typical Singaporean loser who got so used to the spoon feeding in the Singaporean education system). Wake up and smell the coffee, people in the real world just get on with life in imperfect situations and they don't wax lyrical about all your bullshit death to the West, death to America, it's all the fault of the West rhetoric. And if the Arabs are so blameless, why are all the heartless Gulf Arabs refusing to even take in any refugees eh? What about Saudi Arabia - why are they so fucking heartless then?

      And yes I kept you waiting hours for this rebuke because I had gone out to do volunteer work to help the homeless today. What the fuck have you done for refugees or the less privilege? You sit on your computer and spread your hatred for the West - you and your contempt for refugees.

      You should be ashamed of yourself.

      And I've had it with you. Go fuck yourself. It's people like you who make the world and uglier place.

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    9. Hermit: there you go again --- vilifying the West as if the rest of the world has no part in any of the wars that has taken place. First of all, let us agree that the Iraq war should have been avoided. They did not find the wmd. It made the US look stupid. That aside, I find your Saddam glorification quite disturbing. Yes, the man was a BEAST! A MONSTER! It didn't matter where he got the gas from. Fact is, he killed his own people and others as well. His acts of war crimes cannot be dismissed as martyrdom. Instead of condemning his brutality, you are practically cannoning the evil dictator. Even his own people hated him. Was he not prosecuted by his own people? Yet, you choose to condemn the West. Despite the shortcomings of Western countries, we have done more good around the world than harm. Why hasn't the oil-rich Middle East nations stepped up to help the Syrian refugees? Who does the world turn to when there is a crisis as such? When Islamic rebels and dictators slaughter Christians and other sects, who does the world cry out to help the innocent? Civil wars and genocide have been committed in the name of religion. Yet no one will step up to protect the innocent except the Western nations. You have the gall to vilify us! Idiots like you are part of the problem. You perpetuate hate and blame the West. We are just saying that immigrants have to respect the host culture. We respect them. We let them in. What's wrong with expecting assimilation? Absolutely nothing wrong!
      Google Sharia patrols in Europe. Muslims are patrolling the streets and harassing women for not covering up. They are in a Western country. They use the social services of their new land. They have the gall to impose Sharia values on the natives! Where do they get off trying to impose Sharia laws on other people? They cry intolerance on our side. Where is their tolerance toward us?
      From which land do you hail from, Hermit? I dare you to tell us your background. You seem so hell bent on blaming the West for the wrongs of this world. From what lens are you looking through? If you are a man, I hope the women in your lives do not ever have to live under Sharia laws. If you are a woman, I hope you ARE living under Sharia law. Perhaps then you will experience first hand the horrors of Sharian life.
      Either way, I don't care. Just stop spewing hate towards us. Go hide in your cave and live like a hermit!

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    10. LIFT,
      I have already taken the hypothetical point that all refugees go through the process of learning French and assimilate. Why do you still make it sound that I am unwilling to agree with you that these refugees should learn French and assimilate? It is no longer if the refugees should learn French and assimilate. I am now talking about the “how” to get them to learn French and assimilate.

      You mean to say you have ever met refugees at camps? You mean to say they have already learned French through assimilation while still in those camps? How so? Or is it you mean you have met ex-refugees who were no longer in camps who have already assimilated? Which makes it a whole different point altogether because today's hundreds of thousands of refugees are not mingling with the locals but are still in camps!

      For a refugee to learn French through assimilation, he has to mingle around the locals. You mean you want the hundreds of thousands to mingle among the French in the streets of France? Good, I support you. France should show a good example about freedom of rights and not coup these refugees in camps as if they are POWs or criminals. Is that what you are saying you would support? If you do support that, I support you. So it looks like there's nothing left to disagree between us.

      Di,
      Where have I ever once supported Saddam? He was evil to the core. So was his godfather, the US (and certain Euro countries who supported him). Why are you taking offence that this godfather is as evil as him? All I am saying is that today's mayhem, ie the refugee crisis, is triggered with Western interference. Is that not the truth? If yes, we are in agreement. Both the West and Saddam are as evil as each other. If no, tell me why Saddam is evil, while this godfather who supported and financed what he did is an angel. That is the core point of contention between us.

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    11. Typo --- "canonizing the evil dictator" not "cannoning the evil dictator".

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    12. Hermit, a few points for you.

      1. Different countries in the West have different ways of processing refugees - and the differences are HUGE. Australia and America keep these refugees in detention centers far away from major cities and they are interned there during which their claim is processed; they are then either granted asylum and if their claim is deemed to be invalid, they will be deported. Genuine asylum claimants are then given the right to reside, work and do whatever they want in that country.

      In Europe, the system varies from country to country but I shall focus on the UK: We have the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement (VPR) scheme - this takes refugees directly from the refugee camps, these are people stuck in refugee camps, fleeing war and conflict, asking to start a new life in the UK. These are people who are not saying, "I want to return to Syria". These are people saying, "please let me start a new life in the UK". If you have the slightest understanding of what is happening in Syria today, you would understand why some of these people much rather start a new life in the West.

      But unlike America or Australia - they are NOT placed in refugee camps. They are put in social housing, deliberately spread out around the country, their children are placed in LOCAL schools, those who can work are given help to find work and like it or not, they are made to assimilate as soon as they reach here. They are made to live alongside, study alongside, work alongside the locals. Personally, I think that is a far more humane approach than the American or Aussie method of locking them up in a camp thousands of miles from civilization in the middle of the wilderness.

      So this scenario you talk about, "You mean you want the hundreds of thousands to mingle among the French in the streets of France?" Duh. That is already happening Hermit. That is the European system. We are different from the US and Australia - you should educate yourself about the system ways refugees are processed in different countries. Why do you think the Syrians are headed to Europe and not America or Australia? You are so ignorant and you tar all of the West with the same brush. Educate yourself Hermit.

      Far more refugees slip through the net in the UK - they don't want to claim asylum just in case their claim is rejected and they get deported; so they sneak into the country and sail under the radar as illegal immigrants. In a country as big as the UK, they find it easy enough to just 'disappear' into the cracks of society - I have blogged a lot about illegal immigrants in the UK, if you would only bother to read.

      And admit it - I know far more about the refugee and asylum system than you. You sound like an VERY ignorant teenager who may have a good command of the English language, but you know so precious little about the real world out there. I am old man who has lived life in so many countries across the Middle East, Asia and Europe.



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    13. LIFT,
      You are referring to the asylum seekers who have already had a place secured such that they are allowed into the system, aren't you? Didn't I say I support you on that? But that's not what we are discussing, are we? We are discussing about the CURRENT overflow of Syrian asylum seekers who are running away from war, and who have not yet been processed by immigration. Why do you keep deviating?

      Are these CURRENT Syrian asylum seekers already in the system such that they have been accommodated in humane residential homes, their children educated, their adults trained in skills etc, so that they can find jobs and be financially independent? Or are they still on the waiting list, either kept in confined secure areas, or running and hiding from the police and immigration officials, hoping to find a route to UK while on the run?

      So? Are you saying ditch the waiting list and immigration processing system and then let these asylum seekers, who you don't know if they really want to be in France or just using France as a route to UK, to mingle with the locals and assimilate, use up tax payers money and so on? If you are even comfortable with that, I am comfortable too! See? There really is no disagreement between us how the CURRENT Syrian refugees, of whom many have illegally entered French soil, be treated in France now.

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    14. You are making so many utterly ridiculous assumptions I am left wondering if I should just tell you to fuck off. You sound like a dumb, ignorant, ill-traveled, inexperienced 16 year old and I have better things to do with my time. But for the last time.

      Different countries have different systems. Different countries have access to different amounts of resources to process and accommodate refugees. Countries like Sweden, the UK and Germany clearly have more money for this process than Greece, Macedonia, Italy, Spain etc. Some European countries are much richer than others - that I hope you realize.

      You clearly know NOTHING about France, you've clearly never met a real refugee in your life, you are clearly one of those keyboard warriors, I doubt you have even met a Syrian person in your life and you are just sitting there at your laptop shouting idiotic rhetoric about how it is all the fault of the West etc.

      For the record, I am left wing, I am a fucking volunteer who helps homeless people and refugees, I have fucking gone out of my way to help refugees in my country. You are a fucking asshole and fucking idiot for picking a fight with the wrong fucking person.

      You know what? I could try to educate you about how the system in France works, but you're such a fucking idiot I shall ask you to go pick a fight with some right-wing person instead, go irritate someone who thinks that all Muslims are terrorists, that all countries in the West should shut their borders to refugees, someone who would support and vote for Donald Trump.

      You are a total fuckwit, total asshole, fucking idiot. Go fuck yourself motherfucker.

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    15. Hermit, I can't believe you are putting the West in the same category as Saddam. You are crazy. We have done do much good on a go ball scale. What has any middle eastern country done except to cause trouble. Go join them and leave us Westerners alone. Twit!

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    16. Di - I can only conclude that Hermit is like a 13 or 14 year old kid who is quite ignorant about the real world. Gosh, if s/he is really like some dumb teenager, then maybe I have been way too harsh on him/her - but still, s/he refuses to tell us anything about himself/herself so I am not going to care about being too harsh on him/her.

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    17. Well, such misguided views are what ISIS is looking for. So impressionable and naïve. Young he/she may be, but it is dangerous.

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    18. And here's the part that is utterly ludicrous Di - has Hermit not read my blog at all? Does s/he realize how liberal I am when it comes to most issues? Go pick a fight with some right wing conservative who is spouting hateful message about Islam and refugees - there are so many of them who support the kind of hateful rhetoric that Trump is spouting. Go pick a fight with them instead - but what the hell is s/he doing picking a fight with me, just because I don't 100% agree with him/her? It's ludicrous. S/he comes here spoiling for a fight with anyone who doesn't agree 100% with him/her? That's why I am so convinced Hermit is actually incredibly young, probably like 14 years old, because an adult wouldn't react in such an immature manner. Only kids argue like that.

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    19. Just to address something that Hermit said, I think he's trying to make the point that some refugees probably don't want to end up in France (i.e. perhaps they might want to go to Germany) and hence do not see the point in assimilating with French as their minds are set on Germany.

      Of course, the smart ones would understand that in order to improve their chances of getting to Germany would be to focus on the immediate task of learning French and how EU immigration system works and perhaps aim for Germany after becoming a EU citizen first (via French citizenship)

      However, there might be others in the refugee group who are plain unwilling or unable to. Let's face it Limpeh, not everyone is able to pick up a different language as fast as you could. I've been learning Japanese for the past 3 years to get the JLPT N2 level, a few highly motivated ones probably took just 1 or 2 years to get there while lot of others have given up along the way.

      I guess it all boils down to the motivation level of the learner him/herself which I think Hermit is arguing that they wouldn't have motivation to do so since they don't want to be/remain in France.
      Which is probably counter-intuitive since they would need decent French conversation ability to convince the french refugee official why they do not want to remain in France but I suppose you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

      Returning to the topic at hand, I think the immediate issue for France or EU now is what to do with those who do not want to assimilate with their hosts and have turn radical, biting the hand that's helping them now?

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    20. Istel, you're barking up the wrong tree I'm afraid. I'm not advocating that all refugees study French because it is somehow useful or important. All refugees should study the language of the country where they are seeking refuge. So that language would be French only if the refugee is in a French speaking country.

      The fact is I know loads of refugees who have successfully picked up a new language or three in the process of assimilating into their new countries: these are resourceful, intelligent and ambitious people who are keen to make a new life for themselves and make the most of the chances that they have in Europe. Hermit is extremely condescending to imagine that they are unwilling or unable to learn a new language or adapt to life in a new country - the only conclusion is that Hermit is a kid of about 12 years old or younger who has no freaking clue what the hell goes on in Europe and his/her head is just full of anti-America "death to the West" propaganda whilst his/her understanding of the issues at stake is painfully shallow.

      That is what pisses me off about Hermit : s/he wants to talk about refugees but s/he knows precious little about refugees. I've lived with refugees, worked with them, spent so much time with them - fuck it, I am not going to beat around the bush: I know a lot, I am a fucking expert whilst Hermit is a dumb fucking kid who knows nothing. Let's just acknowledge that and get on with fucking life.

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    21. In any case, Hermit is so barking up the wrong tree in picking a fight with me - for crying out aloud, I am a fucking volunteer who helps refugees in my country. I go out of my way to help refugees - and s/he wants to treat me like I am the fucking enemy? There are loads of Islamophobic people spouting anti-Islam rhetoric on social media, why doesn't Hermit take on those people then? For crying out aloud!

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    22. Limpeh, I'm not insinuating that you are advocating for all refugees to study French, that's what Hermit is driving at. I'm referring more to your point where picking up a new language should be easy for anyone who's willing to learn.

      I think you have to give yourself a lot more credit for being a poly-linguist cause the vast majority of the human population just does not have the motivation to become one. Out of all the people I've met during my time on Earth, only a handful are beyond trilingual.

      I've a Canadian friend from Quebec who's Quad-lingual and she notable for having a good command of English, French, Spanish and German. However, she works for the Canadian government as a translator so she uses the languages on a daily basis to maintain a working vocab in all 4 languages.

      She was living in Singapore for almost 4 years and was trying to pick up Chinese while here. Chinese grammar was easy peasy but Mandarin pronunciation in her words, is just next to impossible.

      Feel free to disagree with my view but I do take my hats off to you as a fellow language learner. Lastly, Hermit's just trying to get a reaction out of you by trolling so best to ignore him like what you've done...

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    23. Hi Istel. I study languages because I can pick them up and I enjoy the process - but I have also met loads of people who have studied them because they have to and whether they are successful or not depends a lot on how they learn the language/how they are taught. If you've met very few people who are trilingual, then I suggest you look further afield and go to places like Finland or Switzerland where practically everyone speaks at least 3 languages with ease. I am doing a follow up article on this issue, so akan datang.

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    24. Hmm... I really do meant Quad-linguists and beyond when I said I have few friends beyond trilingual since most of my Japanese classmates in my standard would qualify as trilingual.

      That said, natives of a certain group of language generally have lesser issues cross learning each other (e.g. Romance/Latin based language) than say branching out to a Sino/Tibetan based language)

      I'll be looking forward to your follow up article and perhaps it's time for me to dust off my Spanish-English dictionary and materials and start picking up where I left off...

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    25. @Istel, don't give up learning Japanese. I spent part-time about 10 years to get the JLPT2 certification (the current N2 level). And now i've decided to make a career switch and gone back to school at 35! You are never too old and it is never to late too start learning. If you want advise on language schools to attend or material to study i could assist you with them although i'm probably too outdated to give you tips on passing the certification exam.

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  9. I agree with you on the fraternity aspect. immigrants who have chosen their country to emigrate to should understand that you need to assimilate into society there. Why else then would you want to go there if you do not want to assimilate and be part of it?

    Singapore's government on the other hand is moving towards ensuring the locals are assimilating with the immigrants and was told by the running dogs to ensure the locals do not offend these new immigrants by voicing out displeasure or discriminate against them, labeling those who do as xenophobes.

    There is only a perverted sense of fraternity in Singapore. Laws are in place to cow people into loyalty, patriotism and compliance. I will take the french over singapore anytime!!!

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    1. Hahn, I have yet to see local Singapore assimilate with the immigrant culture. It is the other way round.

      On the government, telling citizen not to offend the new immigrant, the message is aim toward the online social media who are spreading xenophobic message. I myself experience it when reading these online site. It is as if Singaporean are the holy type of people who do not wrong in the eye of the online social media.

      On laws to cow people into loyalty, patriotism and compliance, I have only see law on compliance. I have yet to see the law in Singapore where the government punish the people on loyalty and patriotism such that it happen in North Korea.

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    2. Kelvin Tan,

      Why don't you as Dr Chee or Chye Tai Poh if Singapore's laws cow people into submission and subscribe to their version of loyalty and patriotism.

      Laws in singapore are there to cow people into submission and to extract a conditioned response with pap finds acceptable. Any other response and you can prepare for a long stay in changi resort. They are hardly there for "only compliance". Do not be shy to ask Dr Chee. or the Jehovah witnesses in Singapore, I am pretty sure they will tell you otherwise.

      Singapore is like north korea with gucci suits. They expect loyalty and patriotism by using NS and other forms of indoctrination to force feed you with their horsecrap. I suggest you wean yourself off this unhealthy diet.

      There are plenty of example where singapore uses the law (regardless if the law is fair or just) to punish people and extract obedience and submission. This blog's author have written extensively on NS, a prime and shining example of how laws are use to punish people who refuse to subscribe to pap government's version of loyalty, patriotism and "compliance".

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    3. I can sense your distress and do share the same. I do feel like so when all that I read and hear on the news, television are all about the world going wrong and bleak all the time. I got so disconnected and broken that I went on sleeping out in the streets and eating on leftovers just to find out how it's like. Still do some times to serve as some sort of a reminder. I guess there are certainly things out of our direct control and all that needs to be said has been said. All I know is that everyone wants the same to live that better life, helping out each other, smile and laugh a lot while learning more and more.

      *Sigh* Writing to you while I'm on reservist @ SAFTI 300M Range. Here we are learning to shoot and I shiver at the thought God forbid if ever we got to aim it down somebody innocent to keep civil order. Certainly could use the Men for better things no?

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    4. I have yet to see people jailed for failing to put the national flag in front of the house, jailed for not wearing red shirt during national day, jailed for not singing the national song in Singapore.

      Dr Chee, that is politics. In terms of everyday life, I have a lot of freedom in Singapore. I can go anywhere I want to go in Singapore. Even my sister had the freedom to roam freely at night in Singapore.

      I can still pursue any course to upgrade myself freely and there is no restrictions as well.

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    5. Kelvin, May I ask what world are you living in??? What has walking on the street freely at night or upgrading oneself got to do with anything relating to laws that persecute and cow people into submission?

      Please bear in mind, Singapore laws are there to elicit a conditioned response deemed fit by pap government there is nothing else for it. And for that matter any actions that is deemed swearing allegiance to the state is explicitly disallowed by Jehovah Witnesses. Guess what Yong Pung How did to those people under the "legal" framework of Singapore?

      (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses#Singapore)
      (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Singapore)
      (http://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/singapore/jehovahs-witnesses-in-prison/)

      Are you going to tell me these laws are not there to persecute people? not there to cow people into submission and a conditioned response?? Where have you stuck your head into all these years?

      You are beginning to sound like that imbecile Calvin Cheng when he used the rhetoric "freedom to urinate, molest and stick gum in trains" to brush away western style democracy and promote the farcical crap called "Asian values".

      I politely ask that you wake up and smell the pansies Kelvin, Singapore, despite what the running dogs want you and the international community to believe, is not what you imagine or try to sell it to be. And not everyone subscribes to this perverted fairyland you are trying so hard to defend.

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    6. So you agree that the government should not take action against City Harvest Church as they should have the liberty to use people's money as they see fit?

      How do I sound like Calvin Cheng? All I agree that Singapore have a very strong compliance law which is to ensure that it's people are safe and sound. I may find that Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act ("MRHA") a bit too strict especially when it come to Muslim as well as free speech that allow religion to criticize those who are of different religion.

      Maybe you prefer France freedom of speech when it come to religion and that ISA should be dissolve to allow extremist to come as that will help Singapore to be less restrictive.

      What have Jehovah Witnesses done to you in term of improving your life. Did the religion really help you to make sure that the area surrounding you live in harmony? Did the religion really help promote mutual understanding with people of different race?

      Do you really feel restrictive whenever you go out, when you study, work or mingle with friends?

      I really had smell a lot of bullshit in Singapore especially from "The Real Singapore", "Temasek Times Review", "All Singapore Stuff", "TR Emeritus" and many more from the social media in Singapore. Not just that, I also received a lot of bullshit from my own country Malaysia for being a "Jew of Asia".

      Maybe Singapore should not be too restrictive by abolishing "Singapore First" policy as it restrict too many SME company and forced them to hire Singapore first. Maybe Singapore should also abolish a distinction for "O Level" to go into university so that anyone who want to further their study can go into public university like NUS, NTU and SMU. Maybe Singapore should abolish the banned on drug so that people will have the freedom to take drugs. Maybe Singapore should also abolish the minimum age of marriage so that teenagers who are in love can marry young.

      The paragraph above may be suitable for you as you can have total freedom to do what you want in Singapore.

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    7. Kelvin, Looks like your motivation to defend Singapore's discriminatory stems mainly from the fact that you are a Malaysian Chinese. Little wonder why you chose to sing Singapore's praises while dissing Malaysia.

      I would have thought that you, being at the receiving end of such discriminatory treatment, would understand how it felt and how such treatment and laws should be called out for what it is and yet you chose to look the other way when it does not have an effect on you or hell even benefits you.

      Kelvin, be honest and call a spade a spade. Don't look the other way. And bring out weak arguments that only shows your complete lack of morals, ethics and parasitic nature. If you think its ok for Singapore to enact laws to discriminate and persecute people for the "greater good" then you sure as hell should have no problem with Malaysia enacting laws to benefit the Bumiputeras and branding your race as jews since, apparently your race have done nothing to benefit the sons of the land. Mind you, Bersih 4.0 went on without much of a drama like the last 3 and all these were done AFTER abolishing ISA. So much for Malaysia being boleh no?

      You are again using Calvin Cheng's rhetoric to explain away the draconian and persecutory laws in singapore to elicit a conditioned response. You should try and stop doing that.

      Have your last say Kelvin, I am done with your rhetoric.

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  10. Hahn, not discriminating and not badmouthing immigrants equals to assimilating with them? how so?
    Agree that the gahment has one too many laws . But then a significant portion of us also so entitled what!

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