There isn't any country in the world that is perfect - what you do get is a mixed bag of factors: some good, some bad and at the end of the day, you have to then decide which country presents the best combinations of those factors that will suit you the best, where you would be the most happy. After you have had the chance to live and work for a couple of years abroad in a number of different countries, then you can make an informed decision as to which would be the best option for you: Singapore or another country? Without having first had that experience though, it is at best a decision based on third party opinion which is hardly ideal when it comes to such an very important issue.
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| Would you enjoy living and working in Australia? |
For example: I hate hot weather. I hate sweating and we've just had the hottest Halloween on record in the UK with the temperature hitting 23.6 degrees in Kent yesterday. This is highly unusual as it should be around 10 degrees at this time of the year! Needless to say, some people welcomed the unusually warm weather and I hated it - I couldn't wait for the temperature to plunge below 10 degrees as I just hate anything to do with hot weather and I consider anything above 15 degrees too hot for me. Perhaps this is an extreme reaction on my part, rebelling against the stereotype that people from Singapore would like hot weather simply because they come from a hot country but I have totally embraced cold weather - the colder the better for me and I especially love winter tourism where I get to explore countries during the coldest months (which explains how I ended up in Iceland for Christmas one year). But I digress - cold weather may be a bane for one person but a blessing for another.
In any case, there isn't any country in the world which is totally gay-friendly, even in what are considered the most progressive countries in the world: Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Iceland and Belgium, there are still some small pockets of homophobia, often by the extreme right wing and religious groups. Likewise, even in countries like Singapore where S377A has just been upheld, there are plenty of Singaporeans who are gay friendly and don't agree with the law (and indeed, don't agree with the government on a whole range of issues as well). So you have incident of homophobic abuse cases happening in major European cities as well as openly gay people in places like Singapore who seem to get on with life without any difficulty in spite of their sexuality. So what is the crucial defining factor here?
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| It's all about money. Money money money. |
Yeah let's get practical here: money. It's all about money. Money money money. That's all it boils down to. Are you rich? Do you have plenty of money? If so, good for you - you can do what the hell you want. Look at Tim Cook, CEO of Apple who has just come out as gay. He is one of the most powerful men in the world, fabulously wealthy, head of one of the most important organizations in the world and he wields so much power in his hands. So if a Russian politician wants to ban Tim Cook from traveling to Russia, then Tim Cook can turn around and say screw you, I will pull Apple out of Russia and let's see if you will like that. Tim Cook isn't empowered because he is American per se, he is thus empowered because of his position within the Apple empire which dominates so much of our modern lives.
Likewise, a poor gay person in a city like Amsterdam, London or Stockholm isn't going to have an easy time. Let's imagine an unemployed gay person in such a European city struggling to make ends meet - the fact that he enjoys liberal and progressive laws empowering him with gay rights isn't going to put food on the table when he is desperately looking for a job. When it comes to such bread and butter issues, you have to look at other factors as to whether this gay person is well educated, whether he has the necessary skills to find him a decent job, whether there is support given to him to seek gainful employment and whether there are actually any good jobs for him out there.
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| Your wealth is more important than your sexuality. |
A rich gay man like Tim Cook has loads of more junior employees answerable to him - he is in a position of power at work. Whereas a younger gay man who is at the bottom of the food chain is far more vulnerable - he may live in fear of his manager finding out about his sexuality and the possible consequences should his manager turns out to be homophobic. So you see, how vulnerable a gay man is at work depends entirely on his status in life and by that token, whether or not a gay man in Singapore has a decent quality of life depends far more on his financial status rather than the laws in Singapore. Let's look at a very practical aspect: housing. If this gay Singaporean man is rich and has bought a lovely condo in town, say somewhere like River Valley Road which costs about S$5 million - then he would be able to bring a boyfriend home, live with his gay partner and there would be no questions asked by anyone what this rich gay man gets up to behind closed doors in the privacy of his lovely River Valley S$5 million condo. Now contrast that to a poor gay man who lives in Toa Payoh with his parents - they may be just no more than about 6 km apart, but our friend in Toa Payoh is probably going to be forced to remain in the closet as a result of his housing situation.
So really, for the gays in Singapore today, this ruling concerning S377A being upheld isn't going to make life worse for them - no, rather the status quo remains and what is far more crucial in terms of determining the quality of their lives over the next few years is their employment situation. Does the gay person have a good job? How much money does he earn? Is he rich enough to get on the property ladder or is he so poor he cannot afford to move away from his parents? Can he afford to buy the kind of protection and privacy he needs in order live his life in peace?
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| Life is tough for poor people: gay and straight alike. |
Is this any different from people in other countries? I hardly think so. Let's compare this to South Africa for example - now South Africa actually has very progressive gay rights legislation enshrined in their law! However, South Africa is also a very violent society - the crime rate is frightfully high, law and order is a serious issue that affects all parts of life for ordinary South Africans. Rich South Africans protect themselves by living in protected compounds complete with the best security systems money can buy along with numerous body guards, they make sure their children are sent to schools which are heavily guarded and when they have to go out and about, they are always driven around by drivers who double up as body guards. Now for a gay person in South Africa, the number one concern which will determine the quality of their life is security and there is a simple solution: money. Do you have the money to buy the kind of security you need (high fences, gated compounds, guard dogs, numerous body guards 24/7) to keep you safe in a place like South Africa? Whether or not you are gay or straight is almost irrelevant, the key factor to determine how safe you are is your wealth. A rich gay person who can afford to spend money on the best security will be safe there, whilst a poor straight person will be a lot more vulnerable.
So at the end of the day, if you are a young LGBT person in Singapore reading this, Limpeh has one advice for you: study hard. Work hard. Make sure you become rich, because money is going to be the one thing that will protect you from the crap in life. A lot of people talked about the amount of Singaporeans spouting homophobic abuse on social media - yes there are plenty of homophobic people in Singapore but unless you are an openly gay politician running for public office in Singapore, this doesn't really affect you as a private citizen. Life is not a popularity contest - you have your friends, family and colleagues and you should only spend your time and energy caring about what these people think about you rather than worry constantly about what strangers think about your sexuality and private life. And you have control over whom you choose to socialize with and consider your friends, so make sure you tell anyone who may be homophobic or bigoted to fuck off as you do not want them to be a part of your life.
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| If you're young and gay, I hope you're working hard to become rich. |
That's it from me on this topic, do let me know your thoughts on the issue please. Thank you so much for reading.
You know, reading this and reading the debt article you posted, I find it genuinely amusing that you are taking a position which would not be even vaguely out of line among some moderate PAP supporters. Which again makes me wonder how much of your visceral dislike for the PAP is driven by identifying them with your parents rather than for what they actually stand for.
ReplyDeleteHi Kaishun. I stand by the fact that I am a product of Singapore, I was brought up there and the experience has impacted my opinion on a number of issues evidently. And as for this article, it's a very practical take on the issue by pointing out the importance of money (versus the lofty ideals of equality and gay rights etc). Perhaps I am showing my age - 20 years ago I would have been on marches demanding the removal of the PAP, nowadays I am just so cynical that one can ever get the system to change in Singapore so the least one can do is empower oneself by becoming rich enough to buy the privileges that wealth can bring.
DeleteI have a friend's elder brother who i know is a homosexual due to his interesting internet surfing history while he was using my computer. I know his clique knows and accepts his orientation since he is in the arts/entertainment industry where there tends to be a higher number of homosexuals and people also have more liberal views. His mother (whom I'm very close to, even more so than my parents) have confided to me that she suspects and accepts his orientation.
ReplyDeleteAnyway LIFT, does your parents know about your orientation or do they still ask you when you getting married, having children, or is there a convenient lie you fall back on every time they ask about the other half? This is kinda personal so you can choose to answer or not. If you want to keep it personal you can also drop me an email.
Choaniki - you have to care enough about someone to voice disapproval. I know that parents nagging at a gay son to get married or have children may seem like an un-PC thing to do, but that still shows a certain interest in the son and what the son does with his life. Do you know that my parents have no idea what happens in my life - they don't know, don't care, don't want me to be a part of their lives.
DeleteI came out to my parents years ago when I was in NS. They know that I am gay, they know I have a partner, they don't care however. Look, they don't even know what I do for a living - I can't stress to you just how cold and distant our relationship is. If I didn't make any effort to speak to my sister (I am close to my beloved sister), then there would probably be no contact between me and my parents because my sister is the one who makes a real effort to maintain a real relationship with me.
Heck, I could tell my parents that I have become a porn star and I was going to break Annabel Chong's record and they wouldn't even be interested or try to stop me. How can I put this clearly: they don't care about me, they are not interested in what happens to me, they don't give a fuck whether I live or die, they don't try to speak to me, I am dead to them. And quite frankly, I feel pretty much the same about them. If they can't be asked to take an interest in me, then I am going to focus my time and energy on the people in my life such as my friends who actually do give a fuck about me unlike my parents who don't care if I am dead or alive. I've said before so many times, my regular readers like you know far more about my life than my own parents!
It all fell apart big time when I was in NS. That was the end of our relationship, moving abroad only gave me the space to stop fighting and arguing with them and we just kinda got used to it - not talking = no fighting and that was nice and as the years passed, we just drifted further and further apart to the point where it has been like over 10 years since they took any interest in me. You have got to be interested in someone to want to nag at them you know? It's like if you see some neighbour in the lift whom you barely know, do you nag at them? No, because you do not take an interest in them, they're like strangers to you.
Let me give you an example of how disinterested my dad is in my life okay? I have the possibility of going to Germany to do some work in 2015 - just some initial discussions, nothing confirmed, starting a conversation with a German production company about one of their projects. I was excitedly talking to my sister about it on Skype when my dad drifted into the screen so automatically I switched from English to Mandarin, thinking that my dad was part of the conversation and that oh, he may be interested in me going to work in Germany. Then like 30, 40 seconds later my sister just said, "you can switch back to English now, pa walked away a while ago - he just wanted to pick up something from the table, he wasn't really listening". That's the kinda crap I am talking about. I have a sister who is interested in what I do with my life and I have a father who couldn't give a shit what I do, where I work, whom I fuck etc. Just not at all interested. Walks away from the Skype even when I have made the effort to switch to Mandarin to keep him involved in the conversation.
DeleteSorry man, it really does come across that you do want your parents to be part of your life - but that they don't seem to want the same. At what point should you stop trying or caring? You can only push on rope for so long.
DeleteThanks Kaishun. I can remember a point when they did try to influence me - in my teenage years, I was doing a lot of sports and they didn't want me to do so much sports, they wanted me to spend more time studying and we didn't agree on that. Likewise, they had always wanted me to study in Singapore like my sisters (at NUS) but no, I had to go get that scholarship which gave them no other choice but to 'let' me go study abroad. LOL. They used to say, "we let you do what you wanted to do" - which is silly, because that's them claiming that they had a say in the outcome Eg. my choice of A level subjects, I chose what I wanted and stuck to my guns - they tried to influence me and I said no, I had made up my mind; we argued and fought and then they claimed they 'let' me have my way. Yeah right.
DeleteI guess the some Chinese kids would bow down to pressure and do as they are told but not me, I would not back down over an issue like my A level subjects, like hello? I'm the one who had to take those exams at the end of the day, not my parents, so I had to pick something I wanted to study.
There was a lot of that in my teenage years and eventually, they stopped pushing me knowing that it was a fruitless exercise - it would just lead to us arguing and fighting and them claiming to "let me" have my way (ref: A level subjects).
As for the situation now, ref: the Skype incident, talking about possibly working in Germany, who knows if anything comes of those conversations with that German company, I have spoken to that guy in Germany before and nothing came of it but they are still keen on talking to me so fingers crossed for 2015. But the fact that my dad just walked away and the way my sister had to say, "you can switch back to English now..." Sigh. What should I do? Should I just continue in English regardless the next time he drifts into the Skype screen and ignore him? Heck, it's a lot easier to speak to my sister in English than Mandarin you know...
Sorry I'm ranting. Thanks again my friend.
Well I'm something like in your situation. I went for several a years without contact to my parents and they didn't bother to contact me so I could be dead for all they care. That was why I was closer to my friend's mum than my own parents. They at least bothered to invite me to Lunar New Year dinners whereas the last time I visited my parents during that period was when I was still staying with them.
ReplyDeleteThese days I go to the in-law place during the festive period so I can mix with people whom I feel gives an f about me. At least for you, you have an elder sister who cares. I have an elder brother and I have lost contact with him for more than 15 years now i guess.
When I'm in SG I'm usually all alone so I usually do my own stuff. I travel alone and watch movies alone and that feels normal now. I usually don't even tell my parents when I'm overseas since they usually won't care. If i call they would suspect I want money from them even.
Well there you go. It's not like I am not trying - my attempts to involve my parents in my life are useless, like what is the normal reaction of a parent when a child excitedly tells you, "hey dad, I may have this exciting new job next year to work on this great project in Germany, it's going to be so much fun, it's the kind of work I am looking for and I would love to have this opportunity?"
Deletea) start listening and talk about it
b) turn your back and walk away
He's been choosing b) for the last 25 years or so. If it makes me feel better, they've been doing that before I came out to them, so at least I know they have been hating me before they even found out I am gay. LOL. I don't think I am as distant as you are from your parents because I have a sister whom I am super close to and I stay with my sister (and by default, my parents) when I visit Singapore and my sister is the one who holds it all together. She is the superglue that is somehow making it possible for me to have a relationship with my parents - I don't know how she does it. She has the patience of a saint.
Alex and choaniki: do know why your parents hate you? My mom could not get along with me because I disagreed with everything she said. You guys are successful intelligent men. Your parents should be proud of you despite any misunderstanding in the past. I feel so sad for you both. Truly, I do because I can't imagine not loving my son. It will kill me if we ever come to a point where he feels
DeleteI do not love him. xo
I don't think my parents 'hate' me per se, I think if you hate someone - you still care about them enough to want to do harm to them. I remember this ex-colleague who stabbed me in the back and I spent ages plotting to stab her back in the back (long story) - that's hate for you. My parents don't hate me, they just ignore me. Like the way my dad walks away from me on the Skype screen despite the fact that I had clearly switched to Mandarin to try to include him in the conversation - duh, like I'm not just speaking in Mandarin with my sister for the fun of it you know, it was to include him but he was not interested at all. And my sister would try (bless her) to tell him to come over and speak to me on Skype but he would drift in and then disappear a minute or so later. And sometimes she claims, it's okay I've turned the volume up so he can hear you from over there but I know I can also hear the TV and I know he's watching the TV and is more interested in the TV than talking to me.
DeleteMy mum is now obsessed with my nephew. The only way I can get a conversation with her is to ask her, "and how is my nephew?" And she would give me a super long report about how my nephew is and that's the kinda relationship I have with my mother.
Anyway, I gotta run now to the train station - getting the train to Paris this morning. Laters + thanks again.
@Di I don't think my parents hate me, probably same thing with LIFT we have our own lives and they just don't happen to intersect and we both never made an effort to include the other party in our plans.
DeleteI think they still have a very outdated traditional mentality of popping out many kids and just picking favourites at the end of the day. Like i mentioned in earlier post to LIFT I have an elder brother that has been uncontactable for pretty much over 15yrs or more and they couldn't be bothered with him. I also have a younger brother who is still in NS still staying with the parents so they are concentrating all efforts and attention on him instead of the other 2 of us whom they probably consider lost causes (probably because we didn't buy into their bullshit and rebelled against them).
I'm ok with having a distance but polite relationship with parents instead of close but bickering one. After all we can't chose our parents and how they behave towards us. So we make the best of it and live and let live.
I think the official term here is indifference, no? That at the end of the day when everyone becomes an adult, you lead your own lives and if things don't happen to cross, well everyone moves on and all stay polite. It all boils down to this social institution where we are EXPECTED to like our siblings / parents / grandfolks / cousins / family etc. We avoid acknowledging that people may really dislike individuals within their family, that they are related by blood ties / emotional ties only by some social / biological default.
DeleteDear Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteYour article was insightful and provided a fresh perspective on the LGBT rights issue in Singapore, to say the least. From what you wrote, it is evident that there is a general agreement that the 377A law holds little legitimate purpose currently, and that as usual, financials matters most.
There is, however, an idea that I would appreciate your input on. In fact, it is most surprising to me that I have not found anyone else who shared the same observations as me. My view on the matter is that the whole issue is more a chicken or egg conundrum that needs solving, and needs solving quick.
My experience while reading the comments made by Singaporeans on LGBT articles online is that they are full of misconceptions and stereotypes, more by those who oppose 377A's repeal rather than those who are for it. It is, therefore, queer (ha) that the government chose to retain the law on grounds that it has "yet to gain social currency", which raises the question: is the government supposed to rid the people of these misconceptions (like it has attempted to do on the HPB website) or listen to them and retain the law, which leads to further proliferation of these stereotypes?
Of course, I qualify that as a gay guy myself my views may be biased, but I have many straight friends who are unfazed by the fact that I am gay and are for 377A's repeal, though this may be attributed to the fact that I appear as normal as the guy sitting next to you in the MRT (perhaps this might not be an apt illustration).
By reducing the issue to dollars and cents, it is an appropriate avenue to prove that the repeal (or its retention) may not be as big a deal and previously perceived, but the converse is also arguable; that if this law does not matter when it is retained, why should it matter if it was repealed? I understand this is a tired argument but as you have mentioned, Singapore revolves around its economics and the repeal of 377A, though initially painful for some, is likely to be swiftly forgotten amidst the financial charts and statistics we are so fervently obsessed with.
I, therefore, feel that perhaps the government should take the initial step to end the stereotyping, both by proponents and opponents of 377A, instead of using the misguided opinions of one camp as justification for the possible oppression of the other. Or perhaps I am but an idealist.
Eagerly awaiting your reply,
Russ
Hi Russ. A short reply for you as I am now at work in Paris. I agree wiith you in principle - if the gay issue does hit the government where it hurts, financially - say a big organisation like Apple wields their muscles, that is probably the fastest way to achieve this change.
DeleteThis is something for Singapore courts to learn from: www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/07/transgender-malaysia-court-law-crossdressing-appeal
Delete"Malaysian court overturns law that banned cross-dressing
Appeal judges rule unanimously that sharia law deprived three diagnosed with gender identity issues of right to live with dignity..."
"So really, for the gays in Singapore today, this ruling concerning S377A being upheld isn't going to make life worse for them" ----> Do you realise you're speaking from a position of privilege here?
ReplyDeleteI think Alex is being a pragmatist here as always. Unless you are willing to be a Martin Luther King, a Rosa Parks, or at least a social activist willing to go the extra mile other than just signing a petition that gets ignored, you should just go with the flow. Focus on financial well-being because money buys you freedom. If not freedom, then money buys you options which frees up many of life's stress factors. What is the big deal with keeping your gay life amongst family and friends? Does everyone on the streets need to acknowledge a person's gayness? In Singapore, I have seen obviously gay people walking around without persecution. You can forget about gay marriages. That's not going to happen in Singapore for ages. Pick your battles is what I would tell gay people. Some day, I hope we will not be having this conversation because it is so ludicrous that one's sexual orientation should be debated. Until that day comes, unless you have viable options outside the country, live with it.
DeleteIf you want to talk Maslow, everyone in every country has to overcome the basic physiological first step. Some countries pave the way to make it easier for their people to take a foothold onto higher ground while others oppress. Dare you to go into the details...
ReplyDeleteI personally am pretty indifferent to whether 377A gets repealed or not. From a functional and pragmatic perspective, the change does not really bother me. What I am more concern with is the way the Singapore court came about its decision.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, the court reported it did not contemplate judicial scrutiny of the legislative purpose of an impugned statute over and above its power of scrutinising legislation pursuant to the “reasonable classification” test. Basically, it defers such scrutiny to the legislative parliament function. I can't help but perceive it as being tantamount to the court giving parliament carte blanche to pass all manner of laws (including discriminatory ones).
Call me a pain but I rather disagree with the way the intepretation of article 12 of the constitution which governs discrimination and equal protection. Disclaimer - I am no legal professional, so I am just using a very layperson view on it.
12 — (1) All persons are equal before the law and entitled to the equal protection of the law.
12 - (2) Except as expressly authorised by this Constitution, there shall be no discrimination against citizens of Singapore on the ground only of religion, race, descent or place of birth in any law or in the appointment to any office or employment under a public authority or in the administration of any law relating to the acquisition, holding or disposition of property or the establishing or carrying on of any trade, business, profession, vocation or employment.
Focus on 12 - (2) - the discrimination mentioned "on the ground of religion, race, descent or place of birth in any law...." Now the report mentioned that homosexuality was not included there and hence there was no ground to discuss. They have taken a very literal interpretation that because homosexuality was not in 12-(2), equality and discrinimation in the constitution applies only to race, religion etc. I disagree. If this is true, why bother including constitution article 12-(1)? As a layperson, I see 12-(1) as an overall theme with 12-(2) elaborating specifics where issues may be less clear. Instead, they took a very literal interpretation of the word "only" in 12-(2) instead of trying to understand the context, the essence of equal protection.
It really is not S377A per se I am worried about but rather, the way the court's findings came about. Perhaps readers here may correct me or let me know if I am simply being pesky and nitpicking. Perhaps someone with better legal expertise can throw more insight as this is really not my area of expertise. Am much more familiar with healthcareand drug stuff, not legal wrangling.