And I was like, huh? What is wrong with the way I say 谢谢 and 小心? They said, "it's your accent. Malaysian, Singaporeans and sometimes even those from Taiwan and Hong Kong make the same mistake." Turns out the consonant in contention was the X in Chinese Hanyupinyin which features in both 谢谢 and 小心: I pronounce these words like most Singaporean-Chinese people. I pronounce the X like an S whilst my colleagues from Shanghai and the north of of China pronounced the X like an SH - so 谢谢 and 小心 sounded more like "Shièsheiè and Shiǎoshīn." Now I was adamant that I was correct and they were adamant that I was wrong; and they said, "even if all Singaporeans speak like that, then that's all Singaporean-Chinese people making the same mistake. It still doesn't make it right." Yes, I do speak Singaporean-Mandarin, or Singdarin - apparently I sound very Singaporean when I speak Mandarin.
So I asked my Chinese colleague why she didn't try to correct me when I mispronounced those words previously and she just shrugged, "Yeah you have a Singaporean accent when you speak Mandarin - so what? You do mispronounce so many words, when you're speaking Mandarin you make it sound like a southern Chinese dialect, you use funny phrases like 巴仙 when you really should say 百分之 or when you say 黄梨 instead of 凤梨 or 菠萝 - but at the end of the day, I can understand you just fine. It's like a British person hearing an American speak English - sure it comes out different, but you don't start correcting the other person, do you? You just accept that they speak differently, that is why I don't bother trying to change the way you speak Mandarin. It's no big deal really, it is who you are."
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| How good is your pronunciation in Mandarin? |
I have written about the way Singaporeans speak English on many occasions on my blog - it never ceases to amaze me how huge the gulf is between the way they write and speak. You see, as I mostly interact with my Singaporean friends via Facebook (since I am in England), I note that they all post in standard English but when I speak to them, it comes out in either Singlish or heavily accented Singaporean English. Likewise, I am wondering how many Singaporean-Chinese people actually realize just how strong our Singaporean/Southern accent is when we speak Mandarin?
This brings me to my next question: I do wonder how many Singaporeans realize how strong their accent is when they speak English and Mandarin? I observe there are two kinds of Singaporeans when it comes to the Singaporean accent. The first kind of Singaporean simply accepts that that's the accent they have and make no effort to alter it - some are even proud of the way they talk as it is a reflection of their cultural identity. The second kind are just totally oblivious to just how strong their accent is (until they meet a genuine native speaker of English or Mandarin).
Well, I was in a meeting at work the other day, and one of my colleagues said, "You must know how hard it is to learn English as a second language." Therefore, I should empathise with other English language learners. I said, "No, I do not. English is my first language." She quickly apologised and said she was sorry. That she just assumed even though my English was perfect. Actually, she DID just assumed because of the color of my skin but also because I am sure I have an accent. I am sure we all do. What I hate is just because someone has an accent, people assume English is not a first language. I also have people saying they were surprised I did not grow up in Canada because I spoke like everyone else. Then are those who thought I grew up in England. Bottom line, I am sure I have an accent. Perhaps not a Singapore accent. Certainly not Singlish. As for Mandarin, I do not speak it here for it to be a subject of conversation. What I do hate is when people ask me questions like, "How come your English is so good?" or, "Do your people celebrate Christmas?" My usual response is, "My English is good because I learned grammar the British way. You know, that's the only true grammar, right?" And, "I don't know what you mean by MY PEOPLE, but my family celebrates Christmas the true way --- as the birth of Jesus. Why do YOU celebrate Christmas?" That pretty much shuts people up. How come white Australians do not get asked, "Is English your second language?"
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be a common assumption even amongst Japanese and South Koreans, in countries where English is a rare asset not commanded by the majority or even a sizeable minority of the population too.In Japan, I get asked this by Japanese who do not even know what other languages are, "What language do you speak at home? Because I think I hear a Chinese accent in your voice." Please, this is coming from someone who does not speak Chinese! I stressed it over and over again, "English is my first language." Of course, Japanese do not trust people, and even with my Canadian PhD, it is nothing to them compared to "looking the bit"--being white-skinned. In Canada, I get treated in the same way as everyone, and when I am in the USA communicating with whites, they say on talking with me, "You really speak VERY GOOD English" (not without me glazing over for a quick while) before I reply, "I am educated in the Canadian system, and did my PhD and part of my Bachelor's in Canada." Perhaps, Canadians are the most 'equal' or egalitarian insofar as a different intonation does not mean anything in the way of assuming that you cannot teach. I have an accent. Sure, I do not speak Singlish, and neither do I have the flat, staccato intonation of Singaporeans, because I was educated through a variety of sources, by British teachers, Aussie teachers, New Zealand teachers, and did graduate school in both the USA (Midwest USA) and Canada for an extended period of time. Seriously, all the usual nonsense that some people--especially East Asians--have about English being a specifically 'white' language is summed up in that video online "What Kind of Asian Are You?" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWynJkN5HbQ
DeleteThat Korean-American lady was treated as an outsider even after being conversant in English just like anyone raised and educated in America. This is pretty much what I can identify with, because to the ignorant people, there are those who assume that because I do not speak like an American, I must therefore be speaking with an 'Asian' accent. Then again, there are those Americans who think that I speak with a British or Scottish accent. O yes, I have an accent, a really hybrid one--with British, Canadian, American, and Aussie sounds. But I am proud of being myself. Nothing wrong with that. If I do not deserve whatever I get or got based on my hybrid accent, owing to some alleged "miscommunication" or "communication issues", I am sure that my Canadian and American professors would have flunked me right on the spot anyway.
Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese are quite racists in the sense that as long as you are not white, your English isn't as authentic as a white person. That is very wrong because my English is much more proper than the average Jane Smith. Canada has many Asian immigrants, so when they see me, they see immigrant. Therefore, as an Asian immigrant, I must have learned English as a second language. I also have little kids asking me where I was from. I deliberately said, "Manitoba." They looked confused because Manitoba is a very white province. I just move on. I bugs me because I do not ask white people where they are from even though everyone has an accent if you listen carefully. The Asian community irritates me the most because they are so tenacious in establishing my origins. It's as if they get some satisfaction in their mental schematic order of the universe. "Ahh, I knew you were not from Canada! That's more like it!"
DeleteYour experience sounds similar to mine. I just say "Toronto" when I am asked, the usual Torontonian way, by stringing the first 't' and the 'r' together without the 'o'. It confuses them alright LOL. But yes, Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese(as in, mainland Chinese) can be quite racist without being aware of it.
DeleteDi, your words remind me of something an American friend told me before when I was still in Japan. According to him, a Japanese that he knew had employed a Hungarian as a tutor in English, but that Hungarian obviously had a very strong Eastern European accent, with all the extra intonations that you find in Hungarian and so on, when he spoke English, and my friend wondered how the Japanese was going to learn correct English. I asked him then, "Do you understand me as an Asian, or do you have difficulty by virtue of me having a different accent from you as an American?" He said, "I understand you just fine." When I asked him what my accent sounded like to him, he actually said that I have "a lot of 'bit' of a Canadian accent" although I said that technically my accent was quite mixed. It does somehow show you that whites tend to be very different from Japanese, Koreans, and even Chinese, when it comes to English teaching. For one thing, South Korea is still one country which is very primitive in the aspect of English teacher hiring, and without a passport from one of the 7 countries in their 'approved list'(USA, Canada, UK, Australia, South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand), you can totally forget about teaching there even if you have a PhD in English!
DeleteWhen I was in-between jobs and wanted to teach at a fly-by-night language school downtown Vancouver, I had a white person telling me that he couldn't hire me because his Japanese, Korean, and Chinese clientele only wanted white English teachers. I looked at their teachers --- all white. I laughed because I know I could teach English better if not as well as Jane Smith who didn't know the difference between it's and its. I understand the interviewer's dilemma. I didn't think he was racist. He had to keep his clients happy. I just think these clients are ignorant and clueless. They would rather learn English from a Hungarian or a Russian with strong accents as long as they are white.
DeleteI heard that some private schools (the language schools) in South Korea actually do not hire people of Middle Eastern, Indian, or African-American heritage, even if you hold a passport from one of the list of 7 countries, because the clients--often high school students--and their parents do not want someone who is not white. Sure, that is idiotic as hell, and pretty retarded, as I would say, but for people who have that handicap in English, and think that 'white skin' means acquiring the English language more easily, I wish them good luck. After all, South Korea was hit by the scandal of false degrees and diplomas, of foreign teachers in English who falsified their qualifications and banked on the biases of race and nationality in English teaching, years back. I believe that it is perfectly possible to fool them, as much as they want to be cautious now, because as long as there is a demand, there will always be someone to create a 'supply', even if it is not as good or qualified.
DeleteHere's my observation about language schools --- if you are white, blond, and 20s, you can get a job even if you can't write to save your life. That's what the Asian students want in an English teacher,
DeleteDitto...neither high IQ/MENSA scores nor high qualifications are a necessity in the case of teaching in private language schools. I have encountered quite a number of such teachers, and find that they speak like crazy, uninformed people at that!
Delete"Like, you mean like, when I was at the rock concert last night, it was super wicked! It was a super hot concert, I tell ya!"
DeleteHi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteAgreed with the accent bit. I didn't realise how bad Singaporean's english was till I left for Uni in the UK. Boy, it still amazes me how some of my friends in Uni could have graduated from Uni anywhere with their butchering of the language. (Much less graduated from Uni in the UK.)
Back to the accents, Sing/Malaysians do speak with a funny accent. (At least to when compared to the rest of the world) This accent affects all languages and even dialects. An example is the Cantonese spoken in Hong Kong/Guangdong and the Hokkien (Minnan) compared to the Taiwanese versions. Most Singaporeans/Malaysians don't realise that the way they speak/been taught to speak is equated to being uncouth/uneducated in those countries. Personally, I didn't realise till native Hongkies refused to believe I'm from 'South Seas'. I learnt Cantonese from my Grandma who was a native from Guangdong. Environmental circumstances meant our family didn't get to interact with much non-Guangdong native speakers till I was in my teens.
Luckily, I had a good ear for learning languages and could correct most of the mistakes in my own spoken english and Chinese. For my daughter, I made sure she's learning Chinese from native Taiwanese speakers.
I know Singaporans use lots of loan words and mispronounce lots of Mandarin ones. Like there is no such word as 巴刹 it should be 菜场. And also almost everyone mispronounces 因为. Again I won't correct locals but I make an effort to speak properly when I talk to PRC natives.
ReplyDeleteI believe that's because 巴刹 is actually a transliteration of 'bazaar'?
DeleteIt will depends on whom i am speaking to. If i speaking to the aunt in the market, i will use Singaporean Chinese. If it is to a PRC, i will try to use genuine Mandarin. I dun mind being corrected as it will improve my Mandarin. Yes, i do mispronounce words but i am constantly making the effort to improve i.e listening to Chinese speakers in CCTV programs.
ReplyDeleteHere in Taiwan, I get the "You English is good" comment all the time from the locals, at which point I would usually educate them about the language situation in Singapore, politely of course.
ReplyDeleteAs for mandarin, or 國語 as they call it here, I can pass off as a Taiwanese for the grand total of about 5 minutes, after which my choice of words or limited scope of expression would usually reveal my 'true colors'.
When I first holidayed in Hong Kong, I used Mandarin to get around because I couldn't speak a word of Cantonese at all. Contrary to what I've heard, the locals did not shun me or give me bad service when I spoke Mandarin. But that's because they thought I was from Taiwan! Even my Taiwanese friends thought I was Taiwanese when they first met me. My Taiwanese best friend has met some Singaporeans before and told me that I speak Mandarin way better! Don't mean to boast but I'm pretty good at faking accents for as long as I can.
ReplyDeleteHi Amber, the Singaporean accent is very similar to the Taiwanese accent. I have worked with Taiwanese people before and have remarked that they make the same mistakes as Singaporeans. My conclusion is that we're both influenced by Hokkien - okay, Taiwan hokkien is somewhat different from Singaporean Hokkien but it has the same kind of nuances which influences our Mandarin.
DeleteIf you meet people from HK, Guangdong province (and possibly KL) who speak Cantonese, their Mandarin is also influenced by their Cantonese as well.
This is a hangover from the time people all spoke their dialects... my nephew's generation will have a whole new set of influences as they no longer speak their dialects (but he is still taught Mandarin by people who do)... so in a generation or two, the accents will change.
近墨者黑with enough time spent in Singapore and mixing with the boomers or Malaysians, even if thought by native PRC speakers, the language skills will be corrupted over time.
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI do not think Singaporeans are mispronouncing words, making mistakes or using 'wrong words'. It is just part of our particular dialect of Mandarin and English. I think that's perfectly alright. We should not be ashamed of the way we speak.
Languages change and evolve all the time. It is the same with our Singaporean Mandarin and Singaporean English, whose evolution was influenced by Malay, Tamil and various Chinese languages like Hokkien and Cantonese.
Oh please Solari, Singaporeans are terrible when it comes to grossly mispronouncing words in both English and Mandarin.
DeleteThere is a difference between having a slight accent and making a mistake. But when the vast majority of people in Singapore make the same mistakes, then you begin to imagine that it is completely normal to speak like that since you sound like everyone else - except of course, you are all wrong. The internet, films and TV will allow you to hear just how English or Mandarin is meant to be spoken by a newsreader.
It is not about being ashamed of the way you speak, it is about being able to speak English and Mandarin well enough to deal with an international audience. I can speak Singlish when I am speaking with my family but when I am dealing with Angmohs, I switch to a brand of international English that is a lot more easily understood by them than Singlish or Singaporean English. I am putting their needs first, I don't need to inflict my Singaporean accent on them - no, I would rather they find me a lot easier to understand and this is important in the world of business where you put the needs of others first. Stuff your need to express your patriotism or identity, don't do that on company time.
Furthermore, it depends on the context. If you're operating a small shop in Ang Mo Kio and serving a very local clientele, then by all means, be as Singlish as you want lah. No problem, all the locals will love your Singlish, But if you want to do international business with people from all over the world, then be prepared to strip away all elements of Singlish from your English if you expect someone from Canada or New Zealand to understand you properly.
So what are you Solari? An uncle/auntie running a tiny little shop in AMK or someone who's prepared to go into the world of international business?
You're not getting my point. I was talking about the particular dialect of Singapore English/Mandarin, not international English/Mandarin. My point is that the pronunciations and word usage are correct in the dialects of Singapore English/Mandarin, and not mispronunciation/mistakes.
DeleteLanguage change and evolution is really fascinating.
Of course in international arenas, we should switch to a more international variety. I have always thought so, therefore I agree with that.
It's inevitable though, that the way one pronounces words, and word usage is somewhat influenced by one's home dialect.
Hmmmm. At which point do you draw the line? You see, I have Malaysian friends who start to split hairs about "I'm not mispronouncing anything that's just my dialect from where I come from." Then the other person responds, "hang on, I am from Johor state too and I don't speak like that." Then person A says, "Ah but you see you are from Johor Bahru and I am from Kota Tinggi - that's why we sound different ..."
DeleteYou can split hairs and sub-divide to the point where you can define yourself as speaking the "Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8 dialect" specific to your geographic area and within your little context you are PERFECT and I'm like, what's the point of that?
In any case, it is not like there is one way to speak Mandarin or English in Singapore - rather, Singlish or Singdarin covers a multiplicity of dialects: take Singdarin for example. Someone like my dad speaks Mandarin which is heavily influenced by Hakka, Cantonese and Hokkien as that's typical of his generation - they learnt those Chinese dialects first then they learnt Mandarin. Whereas my nephew speaks Mandarin that is heavily influenced by English, as that is his first language at school. So my dad may choose to use the word "lao kwee" or "paiseh", whilst my nephew may choose to use the word "embarrassed" instead of using 尴尬 Gāngà or 不好意思 - heck, my dad might even use the Malay word 'malu' instead. So who is right and who is wrong? You can't define what is perfect when you don't have anyone deciding what the benchmark is and even within the Singaporean education system, we all default to a London/Beijing standard when we want to talk about what is perfect English or Mandarin.
The lack of any official status for Singlish/Singaporean English/Singaporean Mandarin makes it very hard for you to claim that something is correct in a certain context because we don't know what is correct or wrong if no one has set the rules (ref: the example of lao kwee/paiseh/embarrassed/Malu).
Sorry mate, I hate to say this, but you can say that something is "socially acceptable within a certain social context" but to claim it is correct is taking it just one step too far.