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| Limpeh at a 5-star hotel in Oman. |
Firstly, I do feel sorry for Roy. Of course I do. In the UK, I am free to express my political views and criticize the government if I wish - such is the freedom of speech here in the UK. Roy doesn't have that luxury in Singapore and has crossed the line when he offended the prime minister Lee Hsien Loong with his piece on the new CPF minimum sum. Heck, I can say what I want about my prime minister David Cameron and would never have to worry about having to face his personal wrath because everyone in the UK has the right to criticize our prime minister. The system in Singapore is shocking, the lack of press freedom is deplorable, Singaporeans simply do not have the freedom to express their thoughts and ideas - the situation is terrible and I blame the PAP for it. So yes, I do feel sorry for Roy.
But let me offer the other side of the argument.
I feel that many Singaporeans have an unrealistic sense of entitlement when it comes to their relationship with their government. Hence I ask the question: how do you view your relationship with your country? Is it your homeland or a hotel? Many Singaporeans will automatically say, "homeland" without hesitation. Singapore is their country, their home and it is where they are born. To be fair, many Singaporeans do feel a sense of belonging to Singapore - the country where they grew up, where they have family and friends. Nonetheless, they make a mistake when they assume that this sense of belonging gives them a sense of entitlement - and that is the line that Roy has accidentally crossed (and now has to face the consequences for his mistakes). But what are your rights as a citizen in your homeland?
Think about it. A hotel guest pays for the room he is staying in - a citizen pays for the right to be in his country. In Singapore, children have great schools to choose from, but education is not free. It is the hardworking parents who have to pay the price for their children to be educated. Male Singaporeans pay a big price for citizenship in the form of national service - it used to be up to 2 years 6 months in my time, now it is just 2 years, but this is still a hefty price to pay when you consider the many years of reservist that come on top of the 2 years. For male Singaporean adults, even if they want to nip over to Thailand for a long weekend, they must apply for an exit permit - this does curtail your freedom as a citizen. Once you become a working adult, you have to pay all forms of taxes from income tax to GST and contend with other things like COE and CPF. These are all aspects of life in Singapore we have to accept.
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| This is a huge price that male Singaporeans have to pay to be Singaporean. |
On top of this 'price' that you have to pay, there are strict rules to abide by as well. Every citizen has to obey the law of the land - those who have the audacity to break the laws will face punishment. You don't get to pick and choose what laws you get to follow and which you can ignore - a saying that I have learnt in the army comes to mind, "this is not your grandfather's army." In short, you have to follow all the rules whether you like them or not.
How is this different from getting a room at a hotel? You have to pay for the right to be at this hotel - even as a child, you do not get a free room at the hotel, it would be your parents who pay for your right to enjoy that hotel room. Like all hotels, there are rules to follow as well - break those rules and there will be a price to pay. This is quite different from the kind of treatment children get from their parents - children enjoy living at home with their parents, the parents do not charge their children rent to live there, meals are provided, clothes are provided, everything from medical care to holidays are provided and if a parent neglects a child's basic needs, that becomes a criminal offence.
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| Don't confuse the government and your parents. |
The kindness we have come to expect of parents are not to be confused with the kind of relationship a citizen has with his country - indeed most parents are loving (well, we would like to believe that to be the case) because they chose to have children, they have a genuine desire to become parents. Whereas a government has a far different kind of responsibility over the entire population, indeed it takes a certain amount of industrial efficiency to run a government as effectively as the Singaporean government has thus far and one simply has to accept that this is a two way process: you pay the price to be a citizen of this country and in return, you have certain privileges for belonging to this country. If you are that unhappy or dissatisfied with the way things are, then by all means leave - go live somewhere else where you will be happier. Yes, that is the simplest solution to a complicated problem.
Every country will offer a different kind of citizenship experience - there is no perfect country in the world, the only difference is that some people are very happy to be a citizen of their country whilst others can't wait to leave. Think about the poor folks who are born in a poverty stricken country or a war torn country ravaged by years of civil war - what kind of horrible deal are they getting from their governments? On the issue of CPF, yes I agree 100% with Roy Ngerng that Singaporeans are getting a totally rotten deal - it sucks big time, how can I put this any clearer? Just have a read here. But here is where I part company from Roy Ngerng on the issue and my stance may me rather controversial, hence allow me to put a disclaimer out there first about exactly where I stand when it comes to the PAP:
However, I think that many Singaporeans are confused the relationship they have with their government and the root of this confusion is sentimentality. Oh yes, you Singaporeans have this sentimental notion of homeland that renders otherwise well-educated Singaporeans into irrational beings - you may love your country, you may love your community, you may love the neighbourhood in Singapore where you grew up but make no mistake: just because you are offering this most sincere love doesn't mean that your government is going to return this love and treat you like a doting parent. Time for a reality check: your love counts for nothing, your relationship with your government as a citizen of this country is just like a guest staying in a hotel. You pay the price to stay at the hotel, in exchange you get to enjoy living at this hotel. The nicer the hotel, the more expensive the price. Singapore is a very beautiful, rich and modern country - but the citizens do pay a very high price to be a member of this club, to be a part of this country.
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| Nice hotels come with a high price tag. |
So the PAP is not giving you a good deal on your CPF, I get it, there is no dispute over that. However, the way I see it, this is no different than going to a website like hotels.com and finding a hotel that is charging you a ridiculous amount of money for a very small room. I am going on holiday this week and had been looking at hotels in Sweden all week - we all want a good deal for our money, that's a most basic instinct. However, that is simply a price you have to pay for this hotel we call 'Singapore' - all hotels raise their prices from time to time and what may seem like a reasonably priced hotel could become expensive overnight if the management raise their prices. It happens and yes, it sucks. But short of leaving hotel Singapore for another hotel, there's really very little you can do about it as long as the PAP continues to stay in power (and I somehow doubt even Singaporeans First can dislodge them from power).
I know many of my readers will say, "but Limpeh, it's easy for you to tell us to leave Singapore - but not everyone has the means or ability to migrate just like that. What about the poorer or less educated Singaporeans who are unable to migrate - what about them then?" Well, as long as you realize that this is never about 'fairness' but simply a commercial transaction, paying the higher price to continue to stay at this hotel, I have a little story for you from my time in Oman.
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| Are Singaporeans unwilling to pay a higher price to be Singaporean? |
Last year, when I was in Oman, I stayed at a 5-star hotel in Muscat. Hotels in Oman were never going to be cheap to begin with, there were no bargains to be found in Oman (that's kinda what you'd expect in the places like that - it is similar to Dubai, Qatar and Kuwait) so I decided to push the boat out and take advantage of a discount offered by Oman Air to stay at a 5-star hotel. Even with the discount, it was still very expensive but the hotel was absolutely gorgeous. I decided to enjoy the experience whilst not thinking about how much I had paid for it. Whilst staying at this hotel, I got to know this American couple where the wife/girlfriend kept complaining about everything - the service, the breakfast, the decor, the furniture, the staff - I swear she was going out of her way to find fault with the hotel.
For example, she drew her husband/boyfriend's attention to a small vase of flowers in the breakfast area and noted that the flowers were artificial (plastic/cloth) and not real. She claimed that for a 5-star hotel, she had expected them to buy fresh flowers rather than use artificial flowers. Until she had kicked up a fuss, I didn't even notice that vase of flowers. It seems that she felt that she was not getting good value for her money, having paid this much to stay at a 5-star hotel and that she had been ripped off by her travel agent.who 'conned her into paying way too much for this very average hotel'. She was grumpy and complaining whenever I saw her at the hotel, comparing it to other better hotels. Oh the irony, this woman was surrounded by luxury in this beautiful 5-star hotel (which she had undoubtedly paid a lot of money for) but she was so unhappy whilst most of the other guests were having a great time there.
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| Limpeh in Oman last year. |
Singapore is just like this 5-star hotel - it is a very beautiful country, but it also comes at a very high price and they have effectively just increased the price of membership with this latest changes to the CPF rules. If you can't leave and have no choice but to continue living in Singapore, then simply enjoy the nicer aspects of life in Singapore. Don't be like this American woman was determined to be unhappy and miserable despite being in this gorgeous 5-star hotel. Like her, someone like Roy Ngerng has already paid a very high price to be a Singaporean (he's served NS, that's a very high price to pay), which leads me to wonder what behaving like this unhappy American tourist could possibly achieve for Roy Ngerng if you know ultimately that complaining as such isn't going to change anything at the end of the day. Please note I am not saying that Roy Ngerng deserves to be treated like this, I am just wondering what his rationale was, what he thought he was trying to achieve with his blog.
I'll let you work that one out. Do let me know your thoughts in the comments section below. How do you feel about the government raising the price of being a part of this country? Do you agree that Singaporeans have allowed their sentimentality to confuse their reasoning? Would you choose to pay this price or leave if you have a choice? Is Singapore such a nice hotel that most Singaporeans would be glad to pay a higher price to continue being Singaporeans? Or is this the last straw that breaks the camel's back? Thank you very much for reading.
How's Gothenburg? You seem to find your way to the most interesting places. I'm super envious :)
ReplyDeleteAnyhoo, I used to think that the PAP were okay. I'm pretty politically apathetic myself and a large part of me still thinks that trading in personal freedom for economic prosperity is a reasonable trade so long as the majority benefits from it. At the end of the day, freedom from poverty and hunger is more important to me. I want three warm meals, a roof over my head and the possibility of a better future. Everything else is nice but not necessary.
Wasn't that part of the deal? I keep my head low and my mouth shut and for that my needs are taken care of by the government (nanny state, yes?). It seems like the PAP wants Singaporeans to still keep their heads low and their mouths shut but won't deliver their part of the deal.
I don't think Singaporeans are as sentimental we claim. Pragmatism, after all, is practically the national religion. Those who can get themselves a better deal elsewhere, will leave. Perhaps for good like you, or perhaps choosing to be based overseas but still keeping their pink ICs and red passports. Those who cannot will make do in Singapore. As always, there will be the kopitiam uncles and ah peks who will complain and complain and do nothing. Whether they're in physical kopitiams or virtual ones makes no difference.
I'm more interested in what will those who choose to stay and make do do.
Hi there. I am not in Sweden yet - I am arriving there on Thursday morning and it's still Tuesday as we speak!
DeletePerhaps the more loud-mouthed Singaporeans I encounter on social media are the more sentimental ones. I think the pragmatic ones just get on with life - it is the sentimental ones who want to talk (very loudly) about their feelings about their homeland.
I think the high price of living in Singapore is one thing. My problem was that Roy was asked to take down his blog articles. I hope the 60% who voted for the PAP see this as another example of an outright violation of human rights. The government has been allowed to get away with such atrocities because time and time again, they have been voted in. The price is set by the PAP. Yes, I understand that. I just wish they were not voted in first of all to have the power to set the price. The price being the whatever the PAP damn well pleases to set --- violation of human rights, CPF, NS, ... whatever. As long as people like your father, Alex, and thousands more like him vote to keep the PAP in power, people will have to just live with it or leave the country like we did. I hope they get voted out. One can hope.
ReplyDeletePS. My dad votes opposition now, it's my mum who still votes PAP.
DeleteJust some piece of news for you, Alex/Limpeh, which will either make you roar with laughter or get pissed more LOL....A friend was incredulous about it, but I just said when I saw his sharing of the news on Facebook, "You don't call this "ripping off people" for nothing hahahah....that is why I chose to LEAVE!" http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/travellers-returning-singapore-shopping-have-pay-goods-a
Delete@Kevin might be news to some for others (like me), we have long known about it. But I either don't declare by removing packaging or by breaking purchases down into multiple trips.
DeleteAnd I agree with one angmo who posted the comment that its retarded. They are charging _goods and service_ tax for providing 0 goods and service. Just a simple cash grab.
I do not normally declare anything when I do get back, but that is because I do not shop much in Singapore anyway. Also, yes, I do not care for paying people who do nothing just because I bought something outside of "their" country(Singapore). The customs officers need to really "upgrade" their brains about this policy which is just a means of making money without doing any work.
Delete"Would you choose to pay this price or leave if you have a choice?"
ReplyDeleteNeither. It's Roy's country as much as the rest of the individual Singaporeans. It should not be 'if you don't like leave lor"; change should be an option too. The incumbent government is trying to keep the status quo because it greatly benefits them and their cronies. I personally dislike Roy's use of colourful words but his intention to improve the lives of Singaporeans is good and after paying the mandatory "price" for being a citizen, he should be entitled to his want for change (in his home).
If the American in your story has had paid an exorbitant price because she was promised the finest service and quality but discovered she was shortchanged even though the service/quality was good (by your standards), is it really unfair for her to complain?
Hi Chee. Thanks for your comment.
DeleteWhilst the thought of 'change' is a noble concept, one should consider how this is done and indeed, if it is possible in the first place. Here's the context: if 60.14% of Singaporeans keep voting for the PAP, change is going to be very slow and very hard to process. Until that percentage slips closer to or below 50%, then someone like Roy is simply going to be banging his head against the wall with his kind of tactics. Reality check, please. This is a democracy and if you're not pro-PAP, then you're in the minority.
In a democracy, it is the will of the majority and whilst I dislike the PAP and can't understand why the hell 60.14% of voters in Singapore still want to support them, the fact is they still control the government and in that context, what can an individual like Roy do when he clamours for change?
As for the American woman, the fact is she has paid a high price to be at the hotel and she could either enjoy it or be utterly miserable. The hotel was very good (I had no complaints - I've spent time in the Middle East and know what to expect and they did meet my expectations). Yes it was expensive but so what?
There's a saying in Hokkien: ai pi ga ai swi (you want it beautiful and you want it cheap at the same time) - ie. you can't have it both ways. You wanna stay at a 5-star hotel and you wanna pay 1-star prices? No way, that's not gonna happen. My point is simple: unless she is going to get a refund, what is the point of complaining and being miserable when she could actually be enjoying her holiday?
Likewise for Roy, unless he is thinks he can start a revolution in Singapore with his blog, what is the point of him complaining and being this miserable about the whole situation when he could actually be enjoying the nicer aspects of living in Singapore, especially since he has already paid a high price to be Singaporean?
I prefer to use the phrase, "ai pi, ai chee, ai tua liap ni" (you want cheap, want pretty, want big tits). Crude but more direct.
DeleteLOL. Yes I do remember the cruder version from my army days. It's just that my mother and grandma used to use the more G-rated version of "ai pi ga ai swi."
DeleteHilarious, Choanik!
DeleteAlex: Good for your dad to vote for opposition now. See, there's one for vote.
Possibility of the wall breaking down is created when Roy banged his head on the wall. If the wall is made of weak material that looks good on the outside and Roy can get more people to bang their heads against said wall, it could break. It might not and will probably not (in my opinion), but the possibility exists. Simply resigning to fate is, in my opinion, equivalent to condemning the future generations through inaction.
DeleteI don't have balls as big as Roy's to take the PM head on but I hope my vote will count.
There is the right way to do something and the wrong way to do something. Roy will simply get himself into trouble, the PAP will make an example of him and nothing will change. What does he achieve? Nothing.
DeleteTrying to take on the PAP singlehandedly through blogging is an inefficient way to try to change the regime.
Good article.
ReplyDeleteAs I had commented in your previous article, for those who do not have the means or ability to migrate (poor or less educated Singaporean), why bother choosing a job that you need to pay CPF. You can fight against the CPF system by people in the company that do do deduct 20% of your for CPF.
Just for your information, there are numerous companies that offer this type of job. So just quit your current job and apply for the job that do not provide CPF at all.
As there is a Malay saying "Kamu tak suka, Kamu keluar" (You do not like it, you can get out)
So those who had the means and ability, they can go abroad and work.
As for me, I do not mind paying a high price for a 5 star hotel (Singapore) instead of paying the same price for a 3 star hotel (Malaysia).
So what Singapore is ranked No. 1 for the most costly city in the world? At least the cost of living in Singapore is a lot lower than the cost of living in Malaysia. The security of staying in Singapore is also high. Although we may not have the freedom of speech, we still have a lot of freedom of movement and this is true for ladies who can roam around Singapore alone knowing that Singapore have one of the safe country in the world. Even there are religious harmony in Singapore although there are many differences in the country, Malaysia on the other hand is slowly going backward.
You also had the freedom of doing any business in Singapore as Singapore encourage entrepreneur even among the females. Singapore may ranked high in terms of it threat gender equality being in mind that Singapore is one of the conservative country (aginst LGBT).
If given a chance, I will rather renounce my Malaysian citizenship and take up Singapore citizenship. I even do not mind taking NS if given a chance. I was even given a chance to perform in NDP in year 2012 and enter into army camp with just work permit for a few months at the camp. We performed a pyro mass display dress in all red. Last year NDP is the "Human LED" performances which I do not participate. In the NDP, my segment is one of the very special segment in that those who are not Singaporean or PR can also join as long as you are part of the Singapore Soka Association (SSA) the subgroup of Soka Gakkai International (SGI). I was surprised that there are arcade games in the camp.
Kelvin, why Singapore? Why not say Canada, NZ, Oz, USA or the UK?
DeleteKelvin, you wrote that "the cost of living in Singapore is a lot lower than the cost of living in Malaysia". Are you sure?
DeleteNo way. If you want to get on the housing ladder, it's a lot easier in Malaysia than S'pore.
DeleteKL has large sprawling suburbs and prices fall away the further you go from KLCC, whereas in Singapore, how far out can you go away from the city centre before falling into the sea? You should see how my cousins in Malaysia live in huge houses which cost so little compared to what one pays in Singapore.
The reason why I said Singapore is that I am not the cream of the crop or those who belong to the rich. Furthermore, there are a lot of restriction for us Malaysian as compare to Singaporean. Below are the wiki links for Malaysian and Singaporean.
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Malaysian_citizens
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Singaporean_citizens
So you can said that Singaporean have more freedom to go oversea as compared to Malaysian.
Puppet and Limpeh:
There are reason why I said that the cost of living in Singapore is lower than Malaysia.
If you compare by currency conversion, everything you buy in Singapore is a lot more expensive in Malaysia. What I did is that I compare what a person earn in that country and spend in the country.
The only thing in Singapore that is more expensive than Malaysia are "Housing" and "Medical".
Other than that, most of the things are cheaper than in Singapore.
Transport: If i buy a car is Singapore, it will be 2 to 3 time more expensive than Malaysia but if you compare $ to $, RM to RM, the price of cars is slightly lower than the price of car in Malaysia if you buy Nissan cars. The price I have include the COE price as well. A Nissan car in Singapore is around $110,000 to $120,000 while in Malaysia the price is RM120,000 to RM130,000.
Electronics and Electrical: Most price in Singapore is halved the price of Malaysia. You can said that the strong currency pull down these price.
Food:
You can still find an economy food of 2 vegetable and 1 meat at the price of $2.70 in Singapore. The same things in Malaysia cost at least RM4.00. May I know the same food in England cost how much?
Another easier comparison is fast food price, McDonald. The price of McValue in Singapore is $7.50 while in Malaysia is RM10.00++.
Your other article help me reinforce my view that the cost of living in Singapore is lower than Malaysia if we exclude Housing and Medical.
Below is the link to your article:
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/is-singapore-really-most-expensive-city.html
http://limpehft.blogspot.sg/2014/03/why-was-there-such-negative-reaction-to.html
Kelvin, it is not easy to do a straight forward comparison when it comes to food prices.
DeleteThe concept of "economic rice" (2 veg + 1 meat on rice) doesn't exist in the UK and Chinese food is considered somewhat exotic and a treat - what may seem ordinary in Singapore (Laksa, chicken rice) is only available in specialist Singaporean/Malaysian restaurants in big cities and you pay a huge premium for it.
An example I always use to explain this point to Singaporeans is that of blackberries: they are often free in the UK as they grow wild (by the roadside, literally) and you can see the photos here: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/its-berry-picking-season.html and http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/my-weekend-in-somerset.html - but if you want to buy them in Singapore, you may have to pay more than $10 in Cold Storage for a tiny packet imported from America or Australia.
But to give you some idea of how much an average worker has to spend on food - at the gym where I go to, most of the workers are paid between £10 to £20 an hour (depending on what kind of job they do) and you can get lunch locally for between £3 to £6 (depending on what you wanna buy). Now we're not talking about doctors, lawyers, bankers and engineers here - just ordinary folk who work at a sports centre. So you may look at a lunch that costs £5 in London and think, woah that's like S$10.56 for lunch, that's expensive but yeah, are the people working in a sports centre in Singapore paid S$43 an hour? I doubt it.
Heck, you can go to a very expensive country like Norway (possibly the most expensive country I've visited) and find everything very expensive, but then again, the wages are very high in Norway so it's affordable for the locals and it is just the tourists who find it expensive there.
So when making such considerations, you have to make it clear whether you are looking at it from the point of view of a local working locally earning the high local wages, or if you're merely looking at it from the point of view of a tourist just visiting the country. There is a big difference.
@Kelvin, I disagree with almost everything you wrote. The only reason you used Singapore for comparison is because the barrier of entry is so low to be almost non-existent. You can speak 0 English have a criminal record and bought your degree from a degree mill and still find work and eventually get PR in Singapore. But I digress.
DeleteIf you wanted to uproot and take the jump why choose slightly better and not the best? According to Henley Visa Restrictions Index 2014, the UK passport is ranked no.1 and tied with a few Nordic countries.
When it comes to cost of living I do not know how you can conclude that only property and medical is more expensive. Off hand I can think of electronics, clothes, automobiles, toiletries, furnishing, renovation, etc, etc. But compared to Europeans countries? France and UK has free medical and they offer it even to tourists. In UK you only have to pay for the price of your meds and even that is capped (very low I might add). You can buy a 2nd hand car for 1k quid. A Mercedes can be had fore 40k (you can't even buy COE in SG for that small pittance). Unlike SG who has to import 100% of food, most European countries has some form or other of agriculture so prices are kept much lower. Why spend SGD20 to eat fish & chips at some restaurant when you can have those in UK for 4 quid? And the list goes on.
You mentioned costs being high due to exchange rate but it works both ways. You only have the corrupt and inept Malaysian government to blame for a weak currency. If you earn Euros or Dinars, everything in the whole world is cheap to you regardless of local import taxes and in comparison to local earning power.
And do you know if you get an EU passport you are free to travel and work anywhere in EU countries without needing a VISA or work permit? Why bother to restrict yourself to 1 small dot when you can have the whole lot of European Union to work and play in?
I am looking from the point of view of a local working locally earning local wages and buying locally instead of the point of view of a local working locally earning local wages and buying as tourist (Earning in Singapore, Buying in Malaysia)
DeleteThanks for the info.
For me the local buying food at £5 for a meal is equal to a local Singaporean buying a meal at $5 or Malaysian buying a meal at RM5. Hence the fast food reference for easier example price comparison.
So the cheapest local meal in London you can get a meal is at £5. Is this correct or there is a even cheaper you can buy from your area in London.
I give another example.
Nissan Leaf.
Malaysia: RM168,813.50
London: £25,990
The cost to buy the car in Malaysia is more than 6 times higher than you buy the car in London.
Nissan Teana 2.0L
Malaysia: RM 145,831
Singapore: $ 136,800
Malaysian need to fork out extra RM9,031 in order to get the car.
Sigh. It doesn't work like that. You need to consider just how long it takes to earn the money to buy that car. For example, £25,990 sounds like what a primary school teacher might earn in a year, so to compare if the car is more expensive in Malaysia, how much does a primary school teacher in Malaysia earn and would that be enough to buy that same car?
DeleteAs for food in London, well you can spend as little as £0.80 and get a really crap sandwich and that's lunch. Or you can spend £2 and get a burger... or for £5 you can get a decent hot meal with a drink at a modest cafe. It really depends on what kind of lunch you're after and if you're just talking about a sandwich or if you want to sit down in a nice place, have meat and vegetables with a nice cup of coffee etc.
Unfortunately most countries don't open doors to foreigners like Singapore. And recently with the UKIP and its anti-immigration stance it is only going to be harder and harder to move to UK or any other developed country.
ReplyDeleteLesser developed countries like Malaysia, India, PRC, etc no one is banging on their doors to be let in. And even if they are they have too much people so it won't be easy getting naturalised in those countries too.
Well Choaniki - that's totally true. It's not just the UK which has seen a lurch to the right in the recent European elections, even in France, the winner of the election there is the Front National, a far right anti-immigration party. The irony is that when things get hard in Europe, people turn to anti-immigration and Singaporeans have never ever contemplated going down that path no matter how hard things get in Singapore.
DeleteI don't think the door to the UK is closed - the bar is simply raised higher. Highly skilled migrants can still find their way here as can very rich businessmen, the door is never truly shut.
The doors to immigration are always open in countries like the UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. They are never closed per se, but the bar is just raised very high just to prevent unqualified and unskilled people from entering the country to screw up its system and structure. Other than skilled migration, there is also investment-based migration, and I do know of people who, despite being lesser skilled in English than desired, still manage to beat the skilled migration requirements via these other categories (including local experience too). Singapore is the odd one out because any Tom, Dick, and Harry can enter even if the credentials are falsified.
DeleteI think there are a lot of things going for Singapore and people are just trying to nit pick at certain things... yes CPF is worst now.. but it is better than 50% tax rate in UK which is used to pay for the welfare system... I agree with most of your article about the entitlement of Singaporeans, but I don't want to comment on the state of Singapore lest it brings up more heated arguments.
ReplyDeleteI just want to highlight one thing though.. freedom of speech in the UK doesn't extend to defamation, if you tried to call David Cameron a paedophilic adulterous child murder, I'm sure you will be sued for defamation as well...
Roy was sued out for saying that the PM and Government are stealing money from the CPF and comparing it to the City Harvest case of misappropriation. As written in the letter by Drew and Naiper, paragraph 6 and 7, he is stating that PM is guilty of criminal misappropriation. Which is a very serious thing to claim. If what he says is true, then he should be prepared to defend himself in court.
Freedom of speech and right to criticise the government have to be read in line with Defamation Laws. In the same way the media has been sued for all the false publishing on celebrities, Roy is being sued for false publishing of serious libel.
In Singapore, the law comes down hard on you for missteps, I know many Singaporeans are very happy with the swift justice whenever a foreigner steps out of line, alls to kick him out and all.
The law will also come down hard on a Singaporean, all the more so when you criticise the government. I think that the PM has the right to defend himself in such a harsh manner because it is a serious allegation and the PM has the right to basically tell Roy, prove it or shut up.
Freedom of speech is never absolute, there are consequences if you harm others, i.e. libel, slander, disclosing trade secrets, etc etc. You have the right to say what you want, but not the right to be free of consequences.
Hi Ian, thanks for your comment. Allow me to respond to the following points:
Delete1. Income tax is not 50% in the UK - you need to do your maths. Even for comfortable, well-off, folks like myself, what I pay varies but it is between 15-25% only and it has never exceeded 30% even when I was working full time in banking. Too many Singaporeans don't understand how the tax system in the UK works, no the humble school teacher or the nurse does not see 50% of her meager wages disappear on income tax. People like that pay even less taxes than me. Even the super rich millionaire bankers don't pay 50% - for more on how our tax is calculated: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/the-fallacy-about-tax-in-west.html
2. Point taken regarding defamation. I think Roy did stray on the wrong side of defamation in this case - I did think that he could have criticized the CPF minimum sum policies in a more delicate way without landing himself in so much trouble.
3. It is shocking though to see the PM go after a 25 year old blogger like that - there is definitely an element of making an example out of Roy Ngerng to warn other Singaporeans not to do what he did.
4. Watching what you say within this context is part of the package, the rules of the hotel and if you're unwilling to abide by the hotel's rules, then Roy should look for another hotel. If he doesn't have that option, then it would be wise to fall in line.
I should have known about trying to con you on the tax =p, yeah I worked in the UK, for a couple of years and I know it is tiered.. but there is also national insurance, tax on bank savings and dividends.. plus capital gains tax which is quite a big thing compared to no CGT in Singapore..
DeleteI was going for the point that the tax in Singapore which is also tiered is lower than UK and Singaporeans should really stop complaining.
For example, while the UK's 50% top tier is for 150,000 (which on searching is now actually 45%) (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm#2a) singapore's top tier of 20% is only application from 320,000 (http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=1190)
So in this respect, the tax in singapore is much more favourable than in the UK, which goes to the welfare state, while CPF helps to abolish having high taxes)
wanted to make a quick brief impactful point about the tax but kinda back fired when you called me out on it =D
Yes I agree it might be harsh on Roy to be sued in such a manner but it is completely within the PM's rights to pursue such action. The PM can and should be judged on coming down hard on him but should not be judged for his right to pursue defamation law suit.
Which comes to my point on certain Singaporeans being happy and gleeful when the law comes down harsh on a foreigner but when it is against their faction they claim that it is too harsh.. Which I think it is just hypocritical.
Heck those same singaporeans call for blood for when a PAP MP steps out-of-line, but his act is not illegal per say, and demand he step down... of course talking about Michael Palmer.. I think it is just hypocritical, you can't demand the law act different when it affects your faction.
Correct me if I wrong but I remember that libel laws in UK have a public interest defense. That is if you believe an issue is of national importance, you should able to criticize or question it without fear of getting sued.
DeleteIf Roy was a UK citizen, he can claim he was doing it out of public interest. After all, I think Singaporeans should have the goddamn right to question how our money is being invested.
I don't live in the UK but I believe the average British cares more about their freedom of speech than the average Singaporeans and if politicians sue their own citizens over public policies, there would be probably be public outcry and that politician can say goodbye to his seat in parliament.
I remember the news about uk ge2010 where conservative party post anti-Gordon Brown posters such as this.
http://adamcollyer.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/i-took-billions-from-pensions.jpg
Imagine in Singapore an opposition politician prinitng posters about PM lee regarding CPF in such a manner. He probably get sued in no time.
If you are the Prime Minister what would you do ? Remember whatever you decided cuts both ways as far as the general public perception is concerned. You can be perceived as being from one end to the extreme.
DeleteKyleced Tang: If I were the PM, I would not get my hands dirty. I would delegate this to a third party with strict instructions to make it go away, to take care of it "but the public must think I had nothing to do with it". It's a PR issue - the PM of Singapore is supposed to be super busy running the country, instead he is now seen to be dropping everything and picking a fight with a 25 year old who dissed him on the internet, now that's just bad PR, it sends out all the wrong messages. If I were the PM, I would get the PR and legal team to act on behalf of the CPF board and to make it look as if it's the CPF board reacting rather than the PM's personal team. So the matter is adequately dealt with and satisfactorily resolved at the end of the day and the public perception is that the PM didn't get his hands dirty.
DeleteIt's PR at the end of the day. It's very bad for the PM's image for him to be seen to get his hands dirty or pick a fight with a kid like Roy Ngerng. The PM should be on the phone with world leaders and talking to people like Obama about pressing global issues, not bothering with what some blogger happens to say about him on these issues.
Yes Roy Ngerng crossed the line - but even the PM's team has no idea how to handle it... delicately enough to protect the public perception of the PM and his image. I'm shocked really. Surely LHL can afford to hire the best PR agents in the world, he has so much money - he can get any PR agent in the world to work for him and handle crap like that for him at arm's length so his image will never be tainted by episodes like that. This is politics. You need good PR.
And XxToweringxX: You're right. I refer you to this story: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/12/police-ask-blogger-remove-legitimate-tweet-ukip The police reacted at first, but with the public outcry of "this is our freedom of speech, how dare you complain and waste the police's time!" it didn't go any further.
DeleteAnd Ian: Oh I make no bones about it - British people do pay more taxes than Singaporeans, that's correct. However, I hate it when Singaporeans make it sound as if a humble primary school teacher or nurse will see half her pay check disappear to taxes when you do know that is simply not the case. But we also get a lot more in return, take the NHS for example, if I were to show up in a hospital with a serious injury - I could get treatment without having to pay a penny. But in Singapore, that's simply not the case. I did have a car accident in the period just a few days after my ORD and before I left for France (well, my dad drove into me in the carpark, stupid accident) and boy we had to PAY when we got to the hospital. If it not had been my own dad behind the wheel, I would've sued the pants off the driver!
DeleteFurthermore, with the CPF minimum sum to be maintained indefinitely, CPF has become just another form of taxation in Singapore. It's not this magical pension scheme designed to help citizens save - it's just another form of tax now.
It's a far more socialist society here in the UK - yes the richer people pay more taxes and it tends to be the poorer people who reap the benefits of the welfare state. We're not talking about unemployed bums on the dole - low income families (imagine mom and dad working McJobs on minimum wage) do get all kinds of support from the government to help them make ends meet. Students get help, those in training get help, loads of people who are struggling to make ends meet get help from the government and this is funded by those who can afford it.
Yes there is a Robin Hood element to the taxation system - is that a bad thing? Or would you rather have a Singaporean system where the rich people don't need to pay as much tax but the poor people are left to fend for themselves and made to sell tissues at food court when they are 85 years old just to make enough money to have dinner? You may be gleeful about "hahaha I pay less tax" but I would invite you to look at the bigger picture.
As for the PM's right to respond, I don't dispute that - I just think his team handled it like a bull in a China shop. Such matters should be handled delicately in the name of good PR.
The trouble is his surname is LEE and like father like son name and integrity is of utmost important to them. He must have learned knuckleduster method from the old man when dealing with such situation in his watch. I may agree to Roy asking all questions about how the CPF is being managed but definitely not the part of the PM stealing money from the fund.
DeleteI say Kylceed, I agree with you - it boils down to picking battles we can win and finding the easiest solution to one's problems. I don't know what Roy is thinking, taking on the PM like that.
DeleteHi Limpeh, your analogy of Singapore as a hotel really hit the nail on the head, as did your point in the previous post about Singaporean politics being devoid of PR nous. We have a de facto monopoly, where the sellers don't know what the buyers want, nor do they need to care, and yet also believe they know what the buyers should get, as in a product-driven rather than customer-driven business. Yet a look at history reveals that even product-driven businesses with very strong products such as Apple still need marketing and sales to be successful. All that is missing now is a competitor that can fill the gap in the market.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment 4-1-3-2, I do spot a gap in the market that no one is trying to fill and that's just bizarre. I am just applying basic business principles when I look at the situation. Heck, I even know people who work in PR in Singapore...
DeleteHi Limpeh, interesting article and I enjoyed reading it. PAP MP Inderjit Singh wrote a similar analogy on Singapore's national identity (para 29):
ReplyDeletehttp://therealsingapore.com/content/pap-mp-inderjit-singh-singapore-has-become-richer-not-singaporeans
Strangely, I resonate with most of his points and hope that his tenacity to 'bite his own master' will awaken his fellow MPs and reverse some of the damages that they have caused. Perhaps all is not lost...
Hi Eric and thanks for your comment.
DeleteSorry but I don't share your optimism. I know that Inderjit Singh is one of those brave souls who are trying to work within the system to affect change - but how much can he do? Remember he was the only PAP MP who abstained on the voting of the 6.9 million white paper - He didn't dare to vote no, he just abstained. Did he manage to persuade any of the other PAP MPs to do what he did? No, he didn't/couldn't or even if he tried, he didn't succeed.
There is a limit to how much he can do within the system - he risks being labeled a trouble maker in the PAP if he gets too rebellious and he may lose his position within the PAP. How many other PAP MPs dare to do what he is doing?
Judging from the white paper voting episode, Eric, don't get your hopes up about Mr Singh 'awakening his fellow MPs' - false hopes my friend, false hopes. There have been various people who have tried working within the system - former NMP Siew Kum Hong and now Inderjit Singh but their influence is very, very, very limited. Siew tried hard but achieved nothing - he was but a sideshow to show that "see? We are a democracy, we have active debates in parliament to talk about policies etc" - but otherwise, after the dust settles, NOTHING changes. Likewise, the same is happening with Inderjit Singh. Nothing will change, mark my words. Don't get your hopes up.
Sorry to be a wet blanket.
but didnt Labor admit they let in too many immigrants....or are they saying that just cos of politics. frankly UKIP may be one policy party but it seems weird that there is no UKIP sg version when there is more foreigners in SG than UK.
ReplyDeleteissit cos sinkies are more tolerant or more cowardly.?
Well, yes they did - but in hindsight, back in the period of 2004 to 2008, the economy was booming and nobody cared if they let in more Eastern Europeans, there were enough jobs for everyone then and unemployment was very low, people didn't feel threatened by the Eastern Europeans. In fact, they were welcomed as there were job vacancies that couldn't be filled by the locals and we needed the migrant workers from Eastern Europe to do those jobs then.
DeleteThen in 2008, the credit crunch hit, the recession set in and unemployment became a problem. That's when Labour started back paddling and thought, oh shit, why did we let in so many Eastern Europeans back then, now they're here we cannot just kick them out. Simple - nobody anticipated the UK economy (in fact the global economy) being hit by such a long and hard recession.
As for S'poreans, you're definitely more cowardly. Here's the irony: the UK has far less border control within the EU as a member of the EU and it's far harder for us to kick out the Eastern Europeans who are already here. Singapore has no such system and all the foreigners who come to Singapore need a work permit to begin with. The PAP has rolled out the red carpet for the foreigners and you Singaporeans were just too cowardly to complain or oppose when it happened until it became too late.
I was talking with my Dad about whether or not he'll vote for PAP or WP (I don't think he's really even considering others at this point) and here's his very generic reply:
DeleteIf the ruling party is very bad and the opposition is very good, I will vote opposition.
If the opposition is only a little better than the ruling party, I will vote for the ruling party.
I think that describes Singaporean's mentality. Better the devil you know…
Sad but true. That's why the PAP has really got to fuck up quite badly before Singaporeans like your dad will vote opposition and to be air to them, yes they will fuck up once in a while but will they fuck up on an epic scale? I doubt it.
DeleteTo be fair, the opposition has to get better..i think right now there are like 5 good candidates per opposition party?
DeleteCan't really run a government with only 5 good people... plus before the election, they didn't even have a manifesto or clear direction on all policies..
They need to form a coalition before 2016 if they want to have any chance of toppling the PAP then.
DeleteIf I may make a comment here on your blog. I have been voting for the PAP for many years not until the last general election in 2011 where I cast my vote for the Workers Party in the Moulmein/Kallang ward (WP lost unfortunately). Why, because I start to get this feeling the PAP are more concerned about looking after themselves than the people they supposed to serve. Right, the PAP may not fuck epic scale as you put it, but wouldn't it better to have some rather than none opposition members in parliament ? How strong and how far will the opposition can grow you never know as long as there are people who will support them. At least there is something someone to keep the PAP on their toes and to send them a message that we can have an alternative.
ReplyDeleteWell Kylceed, have you considered that no matter what you do, the PAP will always find a way to hold on to a big enough majority in the current system to stay in power, so any message you send them is .... probably more meaningless than you think. Sorry to have to point that out to you.
Delete