He showed us a souvenir he bought - it was an iPhone case with some pretty pictures of London landmarks, he said he went into a shop in the West End and there were no prices on the items in there. So he walked up to the counter and presented the iPhone case. The cashier said something which he didn't understand and he offered the cashier £5, the cashier shook his head and said something else in English. So he offered the cashier £10. The cashier then shook his head again and said something else. As my colleague rummaged through his wallet, the cashier pointed to a £20 note in the wallet and took it. So my Chinese colleague paid £20 for the iPhone case and he complained that it was so expensive - but hey, he did like his souvenir. He has no idea just how badly he has been swindled!
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| Here is that iPhone cover that he paid £20 for. |
Well, I don't have an iPhone (I use a Blackberry) so I didn't know how much those iPhone covers/cases cost - but after work today, when I was on my way to buy some sushi for dinner, I passed a shop which happen to sell iPhone covers/cases. So I had a look and sure enough, I managed to find the exact same iPhone case and I asked the man behind the counter in perfect English, "how much for one of those please?" He said £5 and I must have looked pretty surprised as I thought it would be more expensive than that, given how my colleague paid £20 for it. Given that I had no intention of buying it, I simply said, "thank you" and turned to leave the shop. The shop keeper than chased after me and said, "okay sir, just for you £4.50 for you, special discount. If you buy more than one, then I can give you bigger discount." I declined the offer and left the shop - I think if I had stayed and bargained, the price could have gone down.
So there you go, with little effort, I was able to get the price down to £4.50 for the same item my PRC colleague paid £20 for. I suppose I am a bit pissed off at the shop keeper at overcharging my colleague, but surely swindling gullible tourists who don't speak the local language is done all over the world. A British tourist who doesn't speak any Chinese is bound to experience the exact same treatment when shopping in Shanghai too, I am sure. So should I say anything to my colleague about how he was swindled? What do I have to gain by trying to share this information?
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| Most tourists want a souvenir from Britain. |
Here is the argument for saying something: it would teach him a lesson. He was way too gullible, he should have been more careful, he should have gone to a shop where they had price tags on the items rather than a shop where they could change the price at whim like that. He should have at least had some idea of how much an item should cost before attempting to pay for it. And really, he should have learnt some English before coming to England, given how he was unlikely to encounter anyone outside Chinatown who would be able to converse with him in Mandarin. It would make him wiser and less easy to swindle in the future, if he could learn from this mistake.
Here's the argument for keeping quiet: I doubt he would be able to get a refund, he didn't get a receipt - so all I would do is make him feel bad about his shopping experience. Right now, all he thinks is that he bought an expensive souvenir - telling him how much he should have paid would only convince him that all English people are dishonest racist crooks out to swindle him. I somehow doubt he would blame himself for the mistake - he would simply blame the shopkeeper instead for being dishonest. So far, he's had a relatively good time in London (despite the language barrier), I want him to go back to China and tell his friends in China good things about the UK - I don't want this unpleasant incident to be the one thing he remembers from this trip. And besides, I am not close to him - it's too easy to ignore this altogether. He's returning to China in about a week or so and I probably won't see him again.
So readers, what do you think? Should I say something to him? Or should I keep quiet? Leave a comment below, 谢谢!
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| I have no idea how he would react if I told him what I knew. |
In China, it is the same thing, at the places that you need to bargain, if you don't you might be paying 5 times the reasonable price or more. Many of these things are made in China anyway. Many of the PRC people I have encountered on trips wouldn't pay that kind of price because they actually know how much it costs to produce them or to buy them back home (you can practically buy anything online). So... if your colleague is not price/cost conscious, he wouldn't know if he is overpaying anywhere in the world. If he is happy with his purchase just let it be. Unless your intention is to go all the way and help him get it returned.
ReplyDeleteYou think too much!
ReplyDeleteI vote for keeping quiet. I've learned to say things only when it helps. It's not like he is likely to appreciate your informing him that he got cheated anyway..
-S
Alex, let him be. I doubt if he would have done the same for you in China. It's not going to change what he paid. Like you said, he did not go to a place where the prices were fixed. I mean, if he is being sold into the sex trade or something serious, then yes, do step in! He is probably going to brag about his expensive souvenir back in China. Don't deprive him the pleasure. Telling him would bug him the rest of the trip because I doubt the shopkeeper will refund the difference.
ReplyDeleteThanks guys - that's 3 out of 3 - I am going to keep quiet and not mention a word.
ReplyDeleteI will say keep quiet. It won't do any good for him to know that he has been swindled. Also he might never come back to England again so if he feels that its worth 20 quid no one should tell him otherwise.
ReplyDeleteIf you regard this incident as an issue of morality you should tell him. Whether he appreciates you telling him is another matter altogether. If he is so unappreciative of your intention to 'educate' him, so be it, it was never your fault to begin with, so you should never blame yourself for it. However if you knew the truth and you kept quiet, (whilst debatable), you failed to act morally, because you priortised your interests (eg. wanting to leave him a good, but mistaken impression of UK despite him actually being conned there, fear of being lambasted/unappreciated, etc) over the morally right thing to do - to tell someone that he is swindled if he is! Cheers!
ReplyDeleteI call bullshit on this being an issue of morality. Telling him based on this reasoning is the act of a prig who cares more about assuaging righteousness than about other persons' feelings.
DeletePeople who talk about others' morality -- as opposed to being moral themselves -- can be rather odious.
Stop being a self-appointed moral police. Its just like Christians who take a moral high ground and tell every non-Christian that they are going to hell. In fact you happen to be a Christian, are you not?
DeleteWhat a barrage of unnecessarily unkind pricks here for merely stating what I thought I would have done anyway. Just because I use the word 'you' in my previous post doesn't mean I intend to police Alex's morality. I will not mince my words here because I find the remarks here unnecessarily provocative and I stand by what I say.
Deletehuichun: It is not a matter of asserting righteousness at the expense of the feelings of others. In fact, the crux of the reason why I would have chosen to tell the man that he has been swindled is predicated on the welfare of the man himself - what's the point of the man feeling happy when he has actually been swindled? Happiness isn't everything, though truth isn't either. There needs to be a balance between happiness and knowing the truth. If you are misled (and you are happy), are you truly happy? Think of the possibly happy but deluded North Koreans. You can disagree with me as to how one's welfare should be derived, but even so, there's no need to label my opinions as bullshit. And in no way was my post meant to be a normative one - re-read it again. People who jump into conclusions without any attempt of appreciation of the force behind the arguments itself can be extremely odious.
choaniki: Your remarks are totally uncalled for. Learn to read properly first. I was airing my views what I would have done and in no way had I ever intended to shove/convince what I thought would be the right thing to do on Alex. The very fact that I am NOT a Christian (in fact one who finds Christianity very objectionable) is enough to reveal how vacuous a person you are.
gohby, Alex’s dilemma is not about morality; it’s a practical consideration. A smart person would keep quiet since the guy has nothing more to lose, it was a one-off event. Imagine how unpleasant the alternative would be; but if you don’t think so, then you’re probably slightly sadistic, maybe you enjoy seeing people crestfallen?
DeleteYour point: if someone got cheated, better for him to know so he can prevent it happening again. However, you called it “moral” to tell him, and that’s what turned a lot of people off, since you could easily have made a case that it’s more moral to NOT tell him.
Gohby, you cannot compare this case to the North Koreans. That's just insulting. First of all, to think that they are deluded and possibly happy is to say that they are idiots. I am sure they are not. They live under the regime of a crazy and maniacal dictator. I am sure the North Koreans are not blissfully unaware of their less than idyllic existence. We, in the free world, should not participate in their misery by supporting Kim Jong Un or Deux, or whoever the next successor may be. That would be morally wrong. In Alex's case, the guy is out a few pounds, but he is happy. Why ruin the rest of his trip just to feel morally justified? What's the point? Ruin his trip in London for a fistful of dollars?
DeleteChin Lam, I have not discounted the possibility that Alex's dilemma is not about morality - that's why in my very first sentence, I qualified what I thought by mentioning: "IF you regard this incident as an issue of morality...you should tell him". If. And yes, I argue that the morally right thing to do here (for someone who values truth over happiness) is to tell him that he has been swindled. A moral decision does not need necessarily need to be one that makes everyone 'happy', if there are other factors at play (eg. knowing the brutal truth).
DeleteRe: A 'smart' person would keep quiet - what does he stand to gain from telling the PRC that he has been swindled? I can say that for all we know the PRC could have diverted his anger at Alex for bursting his bubble. But do we know that for sure? We don't. But if I were the PRC I would be very appreciative towards Alex for teaching me a lesson. Alex could also potentially gain the trust of a new friend. Yes I would be sad that I made the wrong purchase, but just as you said it's a one-off event, it is no big deal. Why must the outcome be so apocalyptic anyway?! Learn the lesson and move on. You can say that I am being too optimistic or naive, that's your opinion. But my point still stands. No I'm not sadistic, that's complete rubbish - I just want what I deem to be the best outcome for all.
Di, I am not being insulting here. I am sure you can envisage people being entirely brainwashed and feeling very happy as a result of that - I do not even need to talk about North Korea to state my point but I did so anyway. In any case, as you've said, it's a "fistful of dollars" - why do you think that the PRC will necessarily react so badly upon knowing the truth to the point that his trip is ruined? It's a 'fistful of dollars' after all. He wouldn't feel very happy for sure, but I think you are discounting the value of possible gratitude and appreciation of the fact that he was swindled!
I just do not see what practical benefits can be derived for the guy by knowing he was swindled. It will bug him the rest of the trip. The harm done? A fistful of dollars. The aggravation felt by the guy? Plenty. Who does it benefit? The person who tells him, i.e., Alex, who will feel like a moral person. That was my point.
DeleteI see your point. However you are assuming:
Delete1) He will feel so aggrieved, so much so that it is 'not worth' telling him. As I've said and I'll say it again - for all you know he could take the lesson in his stride.
2) Alex will benefit by feeling 'moral'. Not necessarily the case. Also in my previous post I've said that he could very well receive 'backlash' or unappreciation from him if he takes it badly. If Alex is placed in a position where he could 'lose' (if the PRC unleashes his frustration on him) or where he could 'win' (if the PRC treats him much nicer/opens doors to him as a result of gaining his trust), why are you assuming that Alex will 'benefit'?? This is incomprehensible.
What practical benefits? The knowledge that even in a "first-world country" like UK you can still get ripped off?? Being more cautious in future purchases by making less assumptions? Also Alex could possibly gain his trust and friendship? (Whether Alex wants it is another matter altogether.) Is that enough?
Sigh. If I ever visit your country, please do not tell me if I were swindled over a fistful of dollars. Just let me enjoy my trip.
DeleteNot a problem. Interestingly if I ever get ripped off in your country, please tell me so that I can learn. Haha.
DeleteWell, I did tell a number of colleagues on the shoot today and they all told me, "no no don't say anything... it'll only upset him."
ReplyDeleteSometimes doing the moral thing is the selfish thing. It makes us feel good because we tell ourselves we are good moral people. It sucks for the other person. In this case, it makes no diffetence to the guy money wise, but it's going to suck for him whilst Alex feeks good abour being moral.
ReplyDeleteYou friend is not necessarily a naive person - it happens that many people, when visiting a more developed country, leave all their street-smartness at home as they have the illusion that everyone is more civilized in every sense than back in their countries. For instance, I know three Brazilians who were robbed in the Netherlands (one of them was myself =/), which is pretty lame considering how more dangerous Brazil is than Holland. One of them was robbed because he did something that would be unimaginable to do in our home country - he left his backpack with his laptop, one thousand euros and his passport in the overhead bin of the train, and didn't pay attention to it during the trip.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, I honestly doubt that your friend would have been ripped off so easily in China or if he has visiting Bali or Cambodia, for instance. I agree with the others that it's better to not tell him anything - it's not such a big deal that it makes it worth to hurt his feelings. If you want to educate him to be more cautious when in UK or Europe, you can tell some history about a-friend-of-a-friend-of-yours or something you saw in the news, for example.
Hi Edson, muito obrigado ... I can relate to your experience in the Netherlands as I did have that feeling when I first came to Europe - but then again, I was lucky that I never experienced a crime like you.
DeleteYou can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink - if he wanted tips about Europe or traveling, he knows he can approach me anytime as a friendly colleague. But I am not going to sit him down and preach at him.
OK people, firstly, thanks for having this interesting debate here. I didn't think that such a short piece would trigger such an interesting debate. I did not tell my PRC colleague anything. I did give him some tips when it came to shopping and most importantly, I taught him how to make sense of British currency. He had this HUGE stack of coins worth nearly £10 - because he was too lazy to figure out the different coins (1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, £1, £2 coins) he had been paying for everything with notes (£5, £10, £20) and accumulating a lot of coins which he kept in a plastic bag (?!?!??!?!) and the plastic bag is HEAVY.
ReplyDeleteI told him that he needed to spend those coins as they would be useless to him when he got back to China. Like what would he do with a big plastic bag full of British coins in China?
You'll be glad to know that some of my HK colleagues (who speak Mandarin) have been super nice to him and have been taking him out to meals, drinking, sight seeing etc - so at least he is taken care of. He's leaving the UK soon, so let's leave it at that. Thank you all again.