Part 2: Sweden's law on smacking under scrutiny

Hello everyone. This is part 2 of a two part series about the Malaysian couple in Sweden who have been jailed for caning their children. Part 1 has already generated a very interesting debate so far. I am keen to explore the story from a Swedish perspective but also from an immigrant perspective and I do have my Swedish friend Bahar who was born in Iran and came to Sweden as a refugee as a child (read the story about her journey here).

Limpeh: Hej Bahar, let's begin by talking about what you think about this case. Whose side are you on? Were the Swedish authorities justified in jailing this Malaysian couple? Or were they a bit too harsh on this couple?

Stockholm, Sweden

Bahar: I think the authorities got it right, they deserved to be jailed. The sentence may seem a bit harsh, but they should have known better. Any kind of jail time would have sent a strong message to these Malaysian parents, really. They are not some uneducated refugees from some poor African country - the father had a well paid job with Tourism Malaysia, he was an educated man. He can't plead ignorance. This is the law in Sweden, everyone has to obey the law if they want to live and work in Sweden. This is no ambiguity here, none at all.

After all, I ask you - what do we Swedes have to gain by jailing this couple? They are not Swedish, they are foreigners. The father will finish his contract and return to his country - it is so easy and tempting for us to look the other way and not interfere with this family. How you say in English... shut one eye and close the other? The Swedish tax payer is footing the bill for this court case, the Swedish prisons are having to take in two more prisoners and care for them in the system. the children are put into care all at the expenses of the Swedish tax payer. That's my tax money paying for all of this, it's costing the Swedish government so much money - just because some stupid Malaysian parents think it is okay to break the law in Sweden. What do the Swedish public gain from jailing these parents? Nothing - but we do it anyway because we have the morals to do the right thing, to protect children from abusive parents.

Swedish justice is costing the Swedish tax payer a lot of money.

Limpeh: The children were brought back to Malaysia after reports that their non-Muslim carers fed them non-Halal food. Would you like to shed some light on this, as you are Swedish and Muslim?

Bahar: This is a ridiculous allegation. Utterly baseless and ridiculous. They made such a big deal out of it - they made it sound as if the carers force fed these children pork chops and alcohol for every meal. I grew up in Sweden, everyone knew I was a Muslim but I was responsible for making sure I avoided non-Halal food. It isn't rocket science really. I would always go for the fish or vegetarian option - that allowed me to side-step the issue of whether the meat was Halal or not. Take chicken for example, I can eat chicken as a Muslim but really it should come from a Halal butcher as the chickens are slaughtered in a different way, there are certain criteria that need to be fulfilled in order for a chicken to be certified as Halal-compliant. But such rules don't apply to fish, seafood and of course fruits and vegetables.

Some Muslims are more strict than others when it comes to Halal food - for example, I work at a university and I regularly eat at the university canteen. I like the cakes there, they have a lovely salad bar and they do great breakfasts. Obviously I don't eat any dishes containing pork or alcohol, but I don't have a problem having lunch with my colleagues at the university canteen. Some Muslims however, will find what I do... objectionable, wrong.

Are these cupcakes Halal?

Limpeh: Why is that?

Bahar: Well, it is not a halal kitchen. There is pork meat, non-halal meat and alcohol in the kitchen - there is a slight possibility of contamination, even if it is a really unlikely scenario. The same cook who prepared the cake or the salad may have handled pork in that same kitchen. They don't have a set of plates for halal diners and another set of plates for non-halal diners - the plate I use for my salad could have been used for non-halal food before. Maybe the glass I am drinking my orange juice from may have been used for an alcoholic drink previously. For some Muslims, they are really quite... how you say, touchy about the whole Halal issue. They can be just that strict.

What about my non-Muslim friends who may choose to eat pork chops or have a glass of wine when they are in front of me? You see, some Muslims are so strict that they don't want to be in the same room where pork and alcohol is being consumed. I accept that this may be what they're used to perhaps say in the Middle East or Pakistan, but we're talking about Sweden here. Some of them are more bothered about it than others - but if you can't even sit down with your non-Muslims friends for a cup of coffee, then you can't easily socialize with them and become friends.

Has this salmon been in a kitchen where they handle pork?

Limpeh: So you're saying that there are Muslims who will not buy a coffee from somewhere like Starbucks just because they happen to sell non-halal food in there? Even if it's just a cup of black coffee?

Bahar: Correct. But that's taking it to quite an extreme - personally, I don't have any problems with going to the university canteen where non-Halal food is served and if someone wants to eat a bacon sandwich in front of me, I am not going to freak out. It's fine. I once remember at a staff meeting which took place over lunchtime, they brought in a tray of sandwiches for us and there was some kind of pork ham in one of them. One of my colleagues told the catering lady that she had to remove the whole tray of sandwiches and make new ones without pork - but I was the first to tell them, "it's okay, just tell me which ones don't contain pork and I'll know which ones I can eat."

Of course I obey the rules of my religion but at the same time, I know that people don't get ill from consuming pork or alcohol - so I don't freak out as if non-halal food will somehow harm me. Certainly, it doesn't offend me. I accept that I am a Muslim minority in a majority Christian country. They respect my beliefs as much as I respect theirs - Sweden is very tolerant that way. I can assure you that the non-Muslim carers of the Malaysian children would have been careful and aware that these kids were Muslim. Swedish people are very sensitive, we will not offend Muslims like that. Look, I have Swedish friends who are vegans and they are even more strict than Muslims when it comes to their diets and people will always go out of their way to respect your dietary choices because it is a reflection of your belief system. I think it's crazy that the Malaysian press is trying to make it sound like the Swedish carers were somehow trying to corrupt these kids by feeding them non-halal food. Please, it's not like that at all in Sweden.

Can you be sure these fries are Halal? 

So imagine if I came to your house and you offered me a cup of water - technically speaking, if one were to be super strict about it, that cup of water cannot be considered properly Halal even if it came out of the tap because you handle non-Halal food like pork in your kitchen and that cup you use to contain the water has been in a non-Halal kitchen. So you see, even something as innocent as a glass of tap water can be deemed non-Halal by Muslims who are super strict about their Halal rules. The only way to guarantee that it is a Halal cup of water is if you never ever handle non-Halal food in that kitchen. And we're just talking about a cup of tap water here, so let's put things in perspective.

Limpeh: What do you think of parents who smack their kids? Is Sweden right to outlaw it altogether?

Bahar: I am from a culture where parents do smack their kids, I was smacked when I was a kid - but I got it worse than my younger sister. I think she's luckier - my parents practiced their parenting skills on me, made their mistakes before finding just the right balance with her. My parents were very strict in general with me, especially after we moved to Sweden. I think it was a reflection on their lack of confidence - being younger, my sister and I integrated a lot better into Swedish society than my parents ever would. So if my friends from school were to invite me to a party, my parents would be like, "who will be there? What are you going to do there? Will they be taking drugs, kissing and drinking alcohol? Are these the kids from your school? What time will you come home? No you cannot go." I hated not being able to do what other normal Swedish teenagers did, I remember... I felt isolated and lonely at times.

Bahar felt isolated and lonely during her teenage years.

You know, just normal things for Swedish teenagers scared the hell out of my parents as they didn't know enough about Swedish culture - so they often tended to be more cautious. I look back at the number of parties I wasn't allowed to go to, I wasn't allowed to attend sleepovers, I couldn't go on trips with my friends as a teenager and there was no use trying to argue with my parents. I think they were so strict because they were paranoid... like if they allowed me to become 'too Swedish' or 'too European', I would become some kind of drug addict, alcoholic or promiscuous slut. So yes I was punished physically - like they used to hit me if I argued with them, if I didn't get my way and it was like a last resort if they couldn't win the argument, if I wouldn't back down. All arguments would end the same way, I could never win an argument with them and that was just the way things were, you know.

Limpeh: How do you feel, looking back at those times they hit you?

Bahar: Of course I was angry at the time, it's really tough enough to be an immigrant - you know, you're different, you're trying to fit into a new culture, you just want to be accepted by your peers, you want your friends to like you, you don't want to be the awkward foreign kid in class who's so different. I felt I was under enough pressure already at school, I was already facing a language and cultural barrier when making friends, I didn't need my parents to make it any harder for me. They didn't understand just how hard it was for me then.  But what can I do? I look back and I feel sorry for my parents - I understand why they did what they did, it wasn't right but you know, it is what it is. I can't really say I "forgive" them, that's not really the right word to use. But it's been so many years, we've moved on - well, at least I have, I don't think I can speak on behalf of my sister. But now I am a mother myself, I choose to focus my energy on being a good parent for my children rather than think about my own mother's mistakes in the past. It's a decision that I've made for myself, ja? Does that make sense in English? (Laughs) Sorry, English is my third language.

Bahar recognizes that her parents had made some mistakes.

Limpeh: Yes, it does. Did you realize back then that it was illegal for parents to smack their children in Sweden?

Bahar: That law came into effect in 1979 and we arrived in Sweden in 1981 - never mind figuring out what the laws were in Sweden, we had enough difficulty figuring out which bus to take to get into town in Stockholm because we didn't speak a word of Swedish when we arrived here. So technically speaking, yes my parents broke the law a lot back in those days, but they didn't realize what they were doing was illegal. Perhaps if they had known, they would have acted differently as I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to break any law. But I think I witnessed a big change in their attitude when it comes to my younger sister. I think they could see, "oh Bahar grew up, went to university - she didn't become a crack whore or alcoholic criminal, she actually did quite well, maybe we don't have to worry so much about our other daughter, maybe she will be fine after all, maybe we can relax a bit more and let her have more freedom." So they didn't punish her physically, like they didn't hit her as much... certainly not when she got older.

Limpeh: Is this a rare case in Sweden? Like, are Swedish parents still secretly smacking their kids at home, behind closed doors where no one can see - or do Swedish parents really not smack their kids at all?

Bahar: I certainly don't smack my kids. I don't believe in it and perhaps it's a generational thing, my parents are of a different generation and culture and they have their ways of doing things... which are so different from what I would do. But to answer your question, I think the vast majority of Swedish parents do not smack their kids at all - it's a cultural thing. They do punish their children, but in other ways, like grounding them, denying them the right to do an activity they enjoy, not letting them go out with their friends, things like that. It's a social taboo - it reflects badly on the parent if you have to resort to hitting your children, that shows that you have failed in communicating with your child, teaching your child and that reflects badly upon you as a parent. I'm sure there must be some parents somewhere in Sweden who still do smack their kids and get away if it - it's that kind of crime... if no one sees it and no one reports it, then the authorities cannot apprehend those parents who do it. But I'm sure that's quite rare in Sweden today.

Limpeh: Bahar, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me. Tack!

Bahar: Sure. Always a pleasure. Thank you. I hope you will reach loads of readers in Malaysia!

As usual, please feel free to leave a comment and let me know what you think of this interview I did with Bahar. Thanks!

Update: Part 3 http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/why-spanking-is-wrong-no-ifs-no-buts-no.html