Quite frankly, it is disgraceful. It is utterly shameful.
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| Singapore: very rich but utterly miserable? |
This story makes for uncomfortable reading - because all this time, I am reminded of the fact that my aged parents still live in Singapore and if something should happen to them in a public place, in all likelihood they would be ignored and trampled upon by their fellow Singaporeans who have no time to help the pregnant or the elderly. Is this a Singaporean thing or is this a Chinese thing? I am reminded of that terrible story from China - 2 year old Wang Yue was ran over twice and left dying in a very busy street in Foshan, Guandong whilst at least 18 Chinese people walked around her, ignoring the dying child. Well, it was a truly horrific and gruesome story indeed. I'm inclined to think that Chinese people are by nature cold, selfish and this is just part of Chinese culture.
Are all Chinese people really that bad? Well, let's not jump to conclusions. I do remember two acts of kindness from people I knew during my NS days who showed me that Chinese Singaporeans can be capable of great charity. The first was when some of the gymnasts were throwing a dinner for a PRC coach who was leaving to return to China - a big dinner was arranged at a nice Chinese restaurant and when I found out how much it was going to cost, I said no I am not going, I am sorry I can't afford it. I was serving my national service then and as a poor soldier. I felt I couldn't ask my parents for money to go to a posh restaurant, so I just told the organizers I had no money for it. One of the other parents (let's call him uncle PC) heard what happened and he paid for my dinner at the event and told me to go - I didn't ask him for help, he just made that gesture because he was kind. Thank you uncle PC.
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| I experienced these two acts of kindness whilst I was in NS. |
A second event of kindness emerged when I fought so much with my parents during NS, I confided in a friend about just how bad things were getting and his mother offered to act as a peacemaker between me and my mother. I shall call her Auntie AF and whilst she couldn't solve a lot of problems between me and my mother, she gave her time to both of us so we had someone understanding to talk to. Being somewhat younger than my mother and very highly educated, she was able to see both sides of the stories and was able to convey messages between me and my mother in a way that helped my mother so much - after all, my mother is not the kind of woman who would ask for help, she would "lose face" if she admitted that she couldn't get along with her own son. But Auntie AF stepped in as a kind, understanding peer who gave her the kind of peer support my mother never had and I am grateful for that. Auntie AF didn't have to do it, but she saw that we needed help, she knew she was in a position to help and she just stepped in and did it without questioning what she would get in return. Such was her kindness.
But just because I had experienced two acts of kindness from the parents of my friends in Singapore, doesn't mean that I would feel confident about strangers helping my parents should they faint on the MRT one day. After all, even though I didn't know uncle PC and auntie AF well, I knew their children well so there was at least some kind of link. I suspect that my friendship with their children played a big part in their decision to help me. So how does the situation in Singapore compare with the rest of the world? Can you expect strangers to help you if you get into trouble in Europe? Let me share with you some of the stories I have seen from my travels around Europe.
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| Will Singaporeans help strangers in a public place? |
The first story is from Ghent, in Belgium. I was crossing the road near the university of Ghent when a motorbike skidded as it was coming around the corner. The biker was thrown well clear of the bike and the bike flew well across the road. Fortunately, no one but the biker was involved in this accident. Immediately, a group of people ran forward and helped carry the biker off the road onto the pavement. The biker (who was a black guy) seemed to struggle to understand Dutch or French, so the woman who was talking to him switched to English, "I am a doctor from Ghent University Hospital, I can help you. Please tell me if you are hurt, an ambulance has been called, it will be here shortly." A group of men picked up the motorbike and pushed it to the side of the road. Another man retrieved the keys from the ignition and returned the keys to the biker. A man from a nearby restaurant emerged with a first aid kit, some tissues and towels and some ice cubes in a plastic bag and he started administering first aid as we waited for the ambulance.
All this happened within less than 60 seconds - now this is the kind of society Belgium is, they didn't care if the biker was black or foreign, the fact is he could have been seriously hurt and a large number of people (including myself) just dropped whatever they were doing and ran forward to see if they could help.
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| Limpeh in Ghent, Belgium. |
The second story is from London where I witnessed a blind person fall over whilst coming out of Euston train station - immediately, at least six or seven people ran forward to help that blind woman, including myself. You see, the thing with blind people is that you don't quite know whether to offer them help or not and if they seem to be quite happy getting around with their white cane, you don't want to distract them from concentrating on finding their way. Well, this blind woman missed a step coming out of Euston station and fell quite hard. She then told us that she was from the North of England and wasn't familiar with the station layout, that was why she fell. We asked her where she was going and when she said, "I'm going to UCL (University College London)", one of the other women there said, "Shall we walk there together?" That is the kind of place London is - people do rush forward and help when you see someone in trouble.
The third story is from Ireland. Many years ago, a young German couple (I know the German woman in this story) had left their passports and wallet on a bus in Dublin and were desperate - they didn't know what to do and the young German woman sat down on the side of the road and started crying. When the Irish people saw her crying, some people came up to her and asked what was wrong. When she told them the story, one of the Irish locals said, "I can drive you to the German Embassy and see if they can help you with the passport. I know where it is."
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| Would you show kindness to a stranger in trouble? |
When they got to the embassy, it was early evening and the embassy was already closed. They knocked on the door but the one person they managed to speak to was less than helpful. The young German couple were simply told to return the next day during opening hours - with no money and no passports, the Irish man put them up for the night in his home, fed them dinner and breakfast and even drove them back to the German embassy the next morning. My German friend was surprised that Irish strangers were more willing to help her than her fellow German citizens - but such is the nature of Irish people: they are extremely hospitable, even to foreigners in their country.
My fourth story is from Brest, in France - I got hopelessly lost in the middle of the night with a group of equally clueless foreign students, ending up in the wrong town far from our student accommodation, some very kind French locals went out of their way to help me out without asking for anything in return. The full story is here: it is a wonderful story, I do hope you will read it and dismiss any notion of the French not being nice to foreigners.
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| I have experienced the kindness of strangers all over the world. |
I could go on but you get the idea. Am I trying to paint a picture of white people being generally nicer than Asian or Chinese people? Well yes, let's not beat around the bush. As the guy from Singapore who has lived in Europe since 1997, I can tell you that it is generally the case but you can always find exceptions. I make no bones about it - it is generally true. Sure there are nice people in Singapore (such as uncle PC and auntie AF as mentioned earlier) and there are nasty people in the West. But if you're going to fall down a flight on stairs in a train station, you're far more likely to receive help from those around you if that was a train station in Europe rather than Singapore - no doubt. I can only put this down to the cultural differences between Europe and Singapore and this is why I have to say, this BBC article may not be flattering to Singapore, but it does hit the nail on the head when it comes to this problem. The Chinese have a rather appropriate phrase for it: 冷漠无情 (callous and unfeeling).
Another point raised in the article is the way Singaporeans are obsessed with money - their self-worth and national pride is dependent on the fact that Singapore is this country that went from a poverty upon independence to the world's third richest country in under 50 years. Everything is about money, whereas in a place like Ireland, the economy is in a total mess but their patriotic pride and identity has little to do with their economy but their Irish identity is deeply rooted in their history and culture. Singaporeans don't have much of a history (modern Singapore as a nation state only existed after 1965) and as for culture, anyone remember the 'Fun Pack Song'? How's that for culture? After all, the key thing that differentiates Singaporeans from their Asian counterparts in Malaysia, Indonesia, China and India is just that one thing: money. Singaporeans are so much richer and if everything is defined by the money you have and can make, then don't be surprised if you wake up one day and realize that you're living in a society that is totally 冷漠无情.
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| What if my mother fainted in a place like this? |
I do wonder what would happen in Singapore, would Singaporeans help if they witnessed a car accident? Would they help a blind woman who falls down in a train station? Would they go out of their way to help some foreigners who lost their money and passports in Singapore? I doubt it somehow - but that's just me. I am just the kinda guy who would gladly help strangers - put me in a situation such as the one in Ghent and I would be the first to run forwards to offer help, the fact that my Dutch is limited didn't stop me. I find it hard to turn down strangers who approach me for advice on my blog as well and have spent many hours answering their questions and seeking solutions for them.
The question is, what do I get out of it? Is this the question that stops Singaporeans from being helpful - if they do not stand to gain financially from helping others? As for me, I don't know, that's the honest answer - but I don't think I could live with myself if I were to 见死不救 (to not save someone in trouble), I am guided by my conscience. Besides, I believe in karma, I am not religious at all but I do believe that what goes around comes around and if I were to help people, then when I need help, I would be more likely to get it. I have had so many kind people offer me help throughout my life despite the fact that they get little or nothing out of helping me - for example, when I first wanted to venture into showbiz, goodness me, the number of people who went out of their way to help me get started was unreal.
So there you go, that's my take on the issue. Are Singaporeans really that 冷漠无情? Was the BBC article unfair? Please let me know what you think about the issue, leave a message below. Thank you very much for reading.
Update. Part 2: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/perhaps-singaporeans-really-arent-that.html
Your NS story reminded me of one of my own. I was in my bunk which was on the 3rd floor, and I had to go down for something, can't remember what. I was nearing the the first floor, and there were a couple of guys sitting at the bottom of the staircase, talking to each other, I missed a footing, tumbled down the staircase. The two fellows at the bottom of the staircase very kindly got out of the way and allowed me to complete my tumble.
ReplyDeleteI struck the bottom of the staircase, pretty hard. I had my rifle at that time with me, and the muzzle made a really nice indentation on the side of my throat, and my left foot was pointing in a funny direction. The two strangers, bless their Samaritan souls, excused themselves so that I could groan in pain in some privacy.
I manged to somehow claw my way to the medical center, meeting some passer-bys, who greatly assisted me with their eye-powers.
So, in summary, I reject the account you and the British lady have of uncharitable Singaporeans. Singaporeans are greatly charitable, in their own way, that the rest of the world have trouble recognizing as such.
No, in all seriousness, I agree with your assessment, but I also have to wonder why any of this is surprising? When the society you are in is structured in the way Singapore is (no welfare, money is everything, etc. etc.) this is what you are going to get.
The story is true by the way.
Thanks for your story. Interesting analysis - so you think this has got to do with the 'workfare vs welfare' attitude of the government? Mind you, what about poor countries like Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia etc where the government don't have any money for welfare, are the people just as cold and selfish there?
DeleteNot quite. I'm at work now so I can't go into quite as much detail as this deserves in my mind, but as a quickie, I would like to point out two studies to you:
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
The experiments have methodological issues that clouds the studies (seems to always be the case for psych studies), but the results are disturbing nonetheless, and is worth a deeper looking into.
What I'm saying is that the structural makeup of the environment you're in matters a great deal, and you see it all the time with cults. There's an excellent example in the UK, but for the life of me I can't remember the organization's name, but it's a Christian organization. It takes an exceptional individual to breakthrough those barriers, but exceptional people are, by definition, not normal and the same cannot be expected of most people.
I will try and see if I can write something more worthwhile out when I have the time. I ask for patience though, I'm flying back to Sg in a few days and this write up deserves something more than I can bang out in half and hour.
@Xiangjun Please go watch the movieThe Experiment (2001), it talks about the Stanford prison experiment. The reviews are quite good to.
DeleteSingaporeans are all that the BBC said and worse. Of course there are segments of the population who are kind and wonderful and would go out if their way to help you. And there are segments of other populations in other nations who are unkind and rude and would not go out of their way to help you. Let's look at Singaporeans from a bell curve perspective. The majority would fall right smack into the middle: rude, self-centered, and money-minded. My limited experiences over the last 20+ years in Singapore have not been pleasant. From taxi-drivers to sales people at big box stores. Nasty, nasty, nasty. I really have no love for Singapore at all. If not for the food, family, and some friends, I would never step foot on that island, and I would not think about it on my death bed.
ReplyDeleteAh well Di, how would you compare Canadians to S'poreans in the situation as raised in the BBC article then, ie. pregnant women and how they are treated in public?
DeleteHi Limpeh, I can vouch for Canadians, although I am not sure if Di would agree with me here. Having lived in Vancouver, Toronto and Calgary, I find that Canadians--no matter how proud of the city or town or province they come from and hence holding onto certain rivalries against other cities and towns--would still help those in trouble whom they barely or did not know. Back in Montreal many years ago in 1999, I remembered how when walking along Rue St Catherine East(the seedier area of the downtown area), a woman had been mugged right in public daylight. The police were crowding around her to help her, since she had obviously been hurt physically in the process of mugging(she was sitting on the ground and unable to pull herself up). Not only that, but the public was also trying to help calm her down and talk to her to get her out of her situation.
DeleteAlthough this is a random case in Montreal which I witnessed, I can say based on personal experience with Canadians(especially the native born-and-bred-in-Canada residents) that even if they do not know you, when you are in trouble in public, people actually bother to ask you if you need help. For example, years back when I moved from Calgary to Toronto, I sent a lot of my stuff via Greyhound bus to Toronto, but I had to collect them later after I arrived in Toronto. When I went to the Greyhound station, I collected about 2-3 boxes of stuff, and while pushing them along the road back to where I was staying temporarily, a few Canadians actually asked me, "That looks like a lot of stuff and very heavy. Do you need any help?"
If that ever happened in Singapore, people would actually run away from me, as if I am some homeless person or poor beggar. My interactions with Singaporeans--even the owners of places such as the gyms I work out at--have led to this understanding that people only care for how much money you can give them, and nothing more than that. Just like Di, if not for my family, I really do not want to even think much about the people or anything else there.
Interesting story Kev - let me compare and contrast 2 stories.
DeleteIn London, when I see a woman struggling with big bags/suitcases etc at a train station, esp where there are stairs, I will offer to help and she will usually graciously accept.
I tried doing that in Singapore and the woman (who was Chinese) looked at me as if I was trying to steal her bags and wouldn't let me near her bags. She was like, "no I am fine, I don't need your help, it's okay." But her tone was so defensive, it was clear she didn't want me anywhere near her so I was like, okay, fine struggle away with your heavy bags, see if I care. If this happens all the time, then I would be conditioned to mind my own business and not kaypoh in S'pore.
Canadians in general would never think of taking the seat of a pregnant or disabled person. Even when the skytrain is packed, and someone takes the seat designated for pregnant women or disabled person, the moment one of those people get on the train, the person in the designated seat will immediately get up and offer the seat to the pregnant woman or disabled person. If not, other commuters will say something. The odd times when this does not happens is usually when the "seat stealer" is an immigrant. That person will soon learn because most Canadian frown on such behavior. As for helping people on the road who are injured, yes, people will stop and help. Like I said, the middle of the bell curve would. There are always people who wouldn't. Such is the nature of big cities.
DeleteIt's interesting that you said those things about the Chinese woman looking at you as if you want to steal her bags. A lot of Singaporeans do behave with that kind of defensiveness towards their belongings, even if you want to help them, and people end up being vapid and rude--even worse than what LA people are known to be like according to a friend of mine from there--to the extent of waving you away like houseflies should you try. I think that it seems to be rather common in Singapore, and well, it is likely to be related to the 'suspicious' culture in Singapore, where people do not trust each other(sadly, much like the Japanese). A Malaysian friend who worked in Japan told me that Singapore is basically no different from a prefecture of Japan, with their unforgiving culture and the tendency of people to distance themselves one from the other and so on......
DeleteI don't think it is our Chinese culture that has anything got to do with it. More probably it is the environment which we grow up in that caused this. I am not a anthropologist, so my guess is so good as anyone's.
ReplyDeleteTaiwan: It is quite likely that if the same situation happened in Taipei, the lady would have gotten a seat... My own experience in Taipei with my wife and kid was wonderful. The Taiwanese were quite willing to give their seat to my wife with my little 5 mth old. Somehow the Taiwanese seemed a lot more laid back and less uptight.
China, HK & SG: The need to progress economically ahead to survive has created somewhat of group of people with only making money on their minds. I am guessing that people in these areas generally live with fear in their minds that if they don't make enough money they cannot make ends meet. With such dark clouds looming over their heads, I believe they were simply numbed to compassion.
Especially in SG, where we have created somewhat of a economic Spartan nation where only the best economic contributors survives, this probably created a nation with very little empathy. Until our nation decides that not everything is a war of progression which we must win... I have a feeling we will really see a Spartan nation. (Except we lack that unity which Sparta had)....
Hi bb, thanks for your comment. It is a range of factors that have caused this though your analysis of Taiwan vs the rest of East Asia fascinates me, why is this the case in Taiwan please - could you tell us more? I have not been to Taiwan, so I would really value your insight. Thank you, xie xie!
DeleteThanks for your feedback! I used Taiwan purely because I had a really good experience there while on holiday with my wife and 5 mth old. We were kind of just travelling on our own with the baby on their public transport (mainly Trains). And we were really surprised how civic minded they were.
DeleteI guess I did not have that much of a good experience in the rest of East Asia...Not that people are bad or anything but they did not come across as "nice" as the Taiwanese. In China and HK people pretty much left us alone. Treated us as invisible... so it's quite neutral.
I often have this dilemma in my mind should the below scenario occur:
1)If I see a speed car coming, and there is someone infront of me. I only have a split second to do something, what would it be. I have this fear... If I push them out of the way, the car stops and the person gets hurt or gets hurled onto another on coming car... I would be in trouble. If I do nothing, the car runs the person over... I will feel guilty. Lol thank God this has never occurred.
I think usually, Chinese people are very generous with helping if they believe you are one of them, otherwise they generally won't help. Perhaps its because Chinese culture places a very high emphasis on family bonds and such.
ReplyDeleteHi Ronald, thanks for your comment. Funny you should say that, on the issue of Chinese people presuming that you will help them because you're Chinese as well - here's one I have written earlier about my experience with the Chinese diaspora in Prague: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/here-is-one-i-wrote-earlier-in-prague.html If you haven't read it yet, it's a hilarious story involving me being stalked by a PRC in Prague...
DeleteYeah I read that story, really hilarious. I'm not trying to help or criticize the Chinese, just stated my observation. Although I realised that throughout my entire life I have never seen anyone so helpful in Singapore, so perhaps this is why everybody is so unhelpful in Singapore, if you try to help someone out of the blue without them asking for it, then you're just going to come off as having some ulterior motive
DeleteHi Alex, I am a foreigner live in Singapore since 2001, to be fair, I did encounter many time how people help blind people in and out the MRT station, go up and down buses. Most recently happen last year at Bukit Batok Westmall, when a elderly uncle fall down on the walkway, few of people pass by include myself rush to him to help him.
ReplyDeleteBut is the BBC article unfair, no I don't think so, where there are good people as I mention above, i must admit that lately many peoples (Singaporean or foreigner) did what the article said. One good example, when my sister in law carry her 6 month baby on MRT or bus, people just pretend she is invisible instead of offer her seat, that also happen to other pregnant women and elderly.
Here are yesterday news post on The Straits Times (https://www.facebook.com/TheStraitsTimes/photos/a.10150602946322115.373647.129011692114/10151923877822115/?type=1&relevant_count=1), as usual, people will blame the government, foreigner bra bra bra...
On the side note, today McDonald is distribute free Egg McMuffins in conjunction with National Breakfast Day, however one unhappy incident happen when one of the outlet staff shouted to a blind lady with guide dog even before the blind lady step in the outlet, McDonald issue and explanation on their Facebook page.
This is not first time blind people with guide dog having such treatment, I can't remember had you ever wrote about guide dog on your blog before but would be interested on how the west response on the similar incident. hope to see you write a piece on that.
Sam
Hi Sam and thanks for your comment. I tend to write about things I know about or have personally experienced; failing which I would interview someone about an issue if I don't know enough about it. So it's too easy for me to jump on the bandwagon and say that MacDonald's should treat blind people with respect, but really I don't have any insight about the issue to make that post particularly insightful I'm afraid.
DeleteJust to add one more, just don't know is the environment is getting stressful now or the mindset of people getting changes over the years, from my observing, these day many people (pregnant ladies, elderly or other in need) don't have the courtesy to say Thank You" back to the person give out their seat or helping them, as it like is their right to get the seat or receive help, this does upset some people who really just want to help.
DeleteOn the McDonald case, I understand not jump to conclusion without more detail, though Yahoo Singapore did report more detail of the story yesterday.
I remember one incident many months or even 1 year back, I was waiting at the bus stop opposite NEX at Serangoon MRT when i saw an old man trip and fall while rushing for his bus. Everyone was too busy trying to catch their own bus to bother to help but I went forward and helped him up and then flagged his bus before it left so in the end he didn't miss his bus.
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised that no one went forward to help since it's not the typical Asian or Singaporean thing (even our gahmen doesn't help the less fortunate), but I'm not the sort of person who can ignore the plight of others since I've received help from strangers before so I'm just paying it forward.
Interesting analysis choaniki - so by that token, do you think that Singaporeans are merely following the lead set by the government, in terms of not really helping the less fortunate?
DeleteIt might not be the main driving factor, but due to lack of welfare it's every man for himself so the tendency to be selfish will be there (aka you die your pahsah).
DeleteAlso everyone would be busy helping themselves and their family first before they would bother helping other. Most of the time everyone is struggling to make ends meet and with everyone is in this crazy rat-race, the thought of going out of the way to help anyone hardly pops-up.
BTW some genius in Britain found the missing MH370
ReplyDeletehttp://i.imgur.com/Ee6MBIs.jpg
You know how credible that is when it shares the front page with a story entitled, "Melissa naked on her hols."
DeleteHi Limpeh, I read that BBC article over the weekend and I've also wondered what the hell is wrong with some Singaporeans??? Do you think it has to do with the fact that most of them spend too long living with their parents, even after marriage, that they are unable to think for themselves? This smacks of very low EQ to me (blame the education system, too), totally clueless as to how to react in unfamiliar situations, like helping a person in need.
ReplyDeleteI'm really generalising here and I don't mean to discriminate since not everyone is lucky enough to live abroad, but the mindset between friends and family members of mine in S'pore varies WIDELY depending on whether they've lived abroad. Those who've always lived there seem to think their way of doing things is the right and only way because they can't imagine any other way. And of course, I prefer the company of thse who've lived abroad 'cos for them, there is more to life than HDB and car instalments or the latest place to eat, sigh... I can't put my finger on it, but I just feel that conversation remains generally shallow and depressing with those who've always been there.
Hi Shilpa. I think there's a difference between helping someone you know and a complete stranger. I have experienced great kindness from Singaporeans who either know me or have some kind of connection, such as in the case of auntie AF and uncle PC, they went out of their way to be nice to me and helped me because I was a good friend of their children. Would they have helped me if they had no connection to me? I don't know, I doubt it somehow.
DeleteI think the mentality in Singapore is that "this should be the government's job, I shouldn't have to do this, the government should take care of this." I saw it so clearly in my parents' behaviour - there was this scheme at work (they are retired teachers) back in the 1990s where they could pledge to donate to a charity directly through their employer, so a deduction of a small amount of money would go directly from their pay packet to the charity. No fuss, no paperwork, they just sign one form and the money goes out every month.
My dad reacted soooo negatively to this concept of 'charity' and refused to do it because he said, "it should be the government's job to give the charity money, not ordinary citizens like me. The government has so much money, ordinary citizens like me shouldn't be asked to contribute to charity." My dad didn't get it - if the government simply funded a scheme, then that's not charity. I don't have any qualms about donating to charity but my dad just doesn't believe in charity.
Don't get me wrong, my dad can be very kind and generous with people in his life, people he knows - but when it comes to helping strangers, his attitude is simple, "that's the government's job, not mine. I pay my taxes, so the government should take care of that, not me." I think people like my dad are quite typical in terms of the kind of Singaporeans who will look the other way, mind their own business in the name of "don't kaypoh" and ignore the plight of others. Not because they are selfish per se, but they simply are convinced that this is not their job to help, but it is the responsibility of the government to do things like that.
Hi Limpeh, sorry forgot to address that point! Yes, I've been at the receiving end of a lot of kindness myself from my Singaporean friends even when they really didn't need to and I suppose it's only because we're friends but I guess some of these same people would pretend to doze off on the MRT in a priority seat, and treat their domestic workers like dirt, even though they're not exactly complete strangers.
DeleteWhat I was trying to get at is, do you think those who are willing to extend a hand to strangers are generally S'poreans who've been elsewhere and who've learned to see charity in a different light? I do see where your father is coming from (gahmen does have lots of money what :D) even though it's a slightly flawed view of giving. I was brought up differently - by a widowed mother who recoiled from any insinuation that she needed charity, but don't you find it also typical of Singaporeans to think that people who need charity "shouldn't have" gotten themselves in deep shit in the first place (ok, that's a different debate) and therefore don't deserve help?
I agree that the mentality there is to "don't kaypoh" or leave it to the government or that "someone else will do it", and that if there is nothing to gain, then do for what? That makes me think of another article of yours in which you mentioned people wondering why you'd learn all these languages if they won't exactly reap in the dollars (I have the same hobby, but it's harder to concentrate now that I have kids! :D). This is the shallowness - doing things only for a reason - I mean and of course, it doesn't help if they actually read the Straits Times and believe that is all the news they need to know. SIgh sigh sigh.
Hi Limpeh , i have read your articles on relevant degrees. Pardon me , i am in a dilemma here , and i hope to seek your opinions.
ReplyDeleteI am currently an ORDed personnel and i finished my A level 2 years ago and my results was decent.
I am matriculating into NUS Faculty Of Science (Mathematics) and i am unsure whether or not this degree will be good enough for my future, since my friend told me that this degree has very limited job scopes. I was thinking of jumping into the bandwagon and do business instead because its more practical and everyone is doing it and so that i will have broader job scope? Or maybe something specialised like engineering, accountancy (since i like maths) or computer science? I like maths but i am unsure of where it would lead to as what if some point down the road i dont like teaching? Where will i go?
Can i seek your opinion on this? I really need help at this moment. Because this is the month for me to change my university course and it determines what i will be doing in the future.
Hi there, can I ask you please - what do you want to do with your career? Can you give me some idea please? After all, you should be studying something that will serve your career well, rather than pick a course that can lead to a good career. I think you're getting this the wrong way round. Let's start from your career aspirations and work backwards to determine the course you need to get you where you wanna go, okay?
DeleteHey Alex, hope you are well..
ReplyDeleteGood debate on this article and it struck a big cord with me too.
Recently I went back to Singapore to celebrate CNY with my family. I was really really happy catching up with my family and friends again. However there are many small things that I observed that makes me think, will I return eventually?
My gauge of how civil the people of a country is by observing the driving on the roads. On my taxi journey back from Changi back home, I observed so many selfish and bad behavior. Cars hogging the road but speeding up when someone wants to filter left? Cars hogging the road when there's an ambulance with siren behind? Come on! This is not foreigners, these are bloody Singaporean drivers!
I drive alot in the UK. Previously I used to car pool into Canary Wharf. Whilst the traffic and manners in London isn't the best, it's still much better than Sg. Driving outside London is so much better. Much more courtesy and consideration. I can drive for 5 hours continuously and yet not feel tired because the journey is a breeze. No stress!
Having said that, of course there are exceptions. You get the occasional yob (who probably would kill himself in an accident anyway) here. I've witnessed and experienced many kind acts myself.
I'm really thinking hard about is this where I want myself or my parents to retire. I know my parents will not leave because of their attachment and reluctance to move. But I'm seriously thinking - do I want my kids to grow up there even though the education is top notch (one of the best in the world I feel).
I'm presently going through the ILR process and I have been thinking seriously about it - where will I want to be eventually. Of course I curse the taxes here (I just realized that I paid more than S$10K tax this month alone! Cheers bums!!), and worry about living cost and general safety. But it's the simple but more important things like civility, courtesy, fairness that is making me think really hard!
Well... see how it goes..
Cheers.
Hi Colin, just to pick up on a few points:
Delete1. You will get mad drivers everywhere you go lah, it's a big city thing, I have seen some pretty scary driving in places like China, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Russia. And sure, sometimes in London I see crazy drivers as well with super crazy loud music and I wonder how the hell they can drive with music that loud. I live on the 15th floor and sometimes I can hear such drivers with crazy loud music drive by.
2. As for your kids' education, it is not so much the education system but the school that matters. I doubt the kids in the very average neighbourhood secondary schools in Singapore are getting a particularly good deal when you compare them to the exclusive private schools in the West. It doesn't matter whether you're in Asia or the West - if you have a lot of money, you can buy your child an excellent education. Just pay for it. Great schools exist in both Asia and the West - but they don't come cheap.
3. As for general safety: it all depends, it's all relative. If you live in a dodgy neighbourhood (Brixton, Peckham, Finsbury Park, Hackney and other poorer neighbourhoods) then yeah it's a lot more unsafe than if you were in a more upmarket neighbourhood like Hampstead, Mayfair, Bloomsbury, Marylebone, Knightsbridge or Kensington. I have 2 routes I can take from my gym to my nearest Boris Bike station - one is via a quiet terraced housing street and the other runs right through some council housing and I know which street I feel safer walking down! It's just little things like that - I remember how when I was a student, this rather loud HK student got mugged coming out of the halls of residence but he was always barking in loud Cantonese on his mobile phone and drawing attention to himself whilst being totally oblivious to the world around him (he once walked into a door when one the phone) - in any case, Singapore isn't completely safe either. The bottom line is that a lot of common sense goes a long way.
Hey Alex,
DeleteAgree with your points somewhat. Yes, you do get the occasional yob and boy racers in UK, especially London but I'm observing the general road behavior which gives me a gauge about people. Your point about Indian, Russia, China etc is the same - are they well known for being civil?
Yes, the school matters. However the overall systems matters too. I came from an average neighborhood school. However I compared what I've got to the average kids in UK and many other countries that I work with, hands on heart, I've got a much better education. Of course if I'm massively rich, Eton will do :)
Yes, for general safety. This is one big area that I'm worried about. Fact is that Singapore in general feels safer. In the UK, you still hear about gun crimes and prevalence of drugs in posh areas. Of course being sensible goes a long way, but the overall environment plays an important role.
I also agree with your comments on Singaporeans being so dependent on the govt. While I'm no big fan of the PAP, Singaporeans just don't know how fortunate they are. During my recent trip home, I've caught up with many friends. Those doing well don't really complain about the govt vs those not doing so well - baring the occasional gripe. Basically they leverage on what they have and do what they can - and become really successful.
Bottom line is the massive dilemma I face. The blood ties, friends and perceived efficiency in Sg vs the perceived civility, care, environment and space in the UK.
Hi again.
DeleteI just wanna pick up on the point of the education systems - we were not talking about you, right? We were talking about the education for your children, so regardless of what your experiences were, that's irrelevant. You earn enough money, even if your child were to be educated in Singapore, you're going to choose to send your child to an expensive private school to maximize your child's potential and get the best possible education for your child, you're hardly going to send your child to a very average neighbourhood school given how much you are earning. Likewise, if you were to educate your child in Britain, you're not going to send your child to some council run school in East London for your child to rot away there - not if you can afford to buy your child a much better education! It boils down to money and guess what... you're rich! Well, rich enough to buy your child a much better brand of education.
As for gun crimes and drugs in UK? That's exaggerated. Been here since 1997, never had a problem with either and I live in a seedier part of town (Soho). Gun crime is rare here - it's knife crime that's the bigger problem - so the fact that you mentioned gun crime rather than knife crime tells me that perhaps you're not being aware of the real facts and are paranoid about crime here...? I am of course, also aware of the fact that people do get mugged/stabbed in Singapore as well, you should never assume that any place is 100% safe and it gives you the carte blanche to behave in a irresponsible manner, such as letting your 12 year old child stay out late at night or getting hopelessly drunk when you're alone downtown.
Go to live in Singapore if you want to - I never said that S'pore is a bad place, it is full of merits and if you have family members whom you cherish there, that's the best possible reason to move back to S'pore. But please don't come here and pretend that we have gun crime in the UK - knife crime perhaps, but not gun crime. Get your facts right. People get stabbed here, not shot.
Hi there,
DeleteYeah, true enough. Looking at the guns homicide per 1,000 from UNODC, it appears UK has double that of SG (0.04 vs 0.04). Not sure how reliable those data are. However a number by itself, it's not high. Maybe I've been reading too much into the news in Birmingham where there has been some gang shooting here and there.
Well, the dilemma I'm in is to decide if I'm going to stay out permanently. Agree that there's no way I'm going to let kiddo rot in some council school. I'm just saying that after evaluating the systems in UK vs Singapore - after speaking to colleagues and friends who are parents and teachers, it appears we do have a better system back home. Having said that, I'm seriously thinking if I want to subject kiddo to pointless rat races as compared to growing up as a person with compassion, consideration and civility.
That's the crux of the issue sir, thoughts that are triggered by your article.
Cheers.
Hello again. Yes if you compare UK vs S'pore, gun crime rates are higher, but it is still pretty low in the sense that most people don't actually own guns or have ever encountered one (not unless it is strapped to say a security officer at the airport). I got a shock when I went to a toilet in America and saw two guys with guns in there, I was like, 'what did I just walk into' - but they were fairly harmless and you have to remember, that's America where so many people have private guns and yeah, I'd be worried about gun crime in America. Private gun ownership does lead to gun crime problems if too many people have guns and start shooting each other - but that's an American problem, even Canadians don't have that problem, much less the UK.
DeleteAs for your child's education, dare I say as a good parent with the financial means to do so, you're going to ensure that kiddo gets a great education whether you're in S'pore or the UK because that's what money can do - it can buy you a great education. So your child is lucky to have a dad like you. As for any discussion about the relative merits of the two systems... that's irrelevant really, it's an academic, intellectual discussion at best because really, kiddo's gonna have a brilliant experience no matter where he goes not because of the relative merits of the system, but because of your money.
Like I said, lucky kid. Not many have that privilege.
PS. Perhaps we're splitting hairs here, but if you're going to be robbed in America, you might get shot if you resist. But in the UK, you'll be stabbed. Criminals here turn to knives instead. More low-tech and cheaper, but just as deadly. Such is the cultural divide between the US and the UK.
DeleteSG vs UK based on safety aspect it's a crapshoot really. On one hand SG used to be safe but we are talking 10 years or so ago. Now all public resources are stretched (ref. Little India riots) and most of the recent petty and probably more violent criminal cases are committed by foreigners. With the continued and unabated incoming of migrants can you seriously say, with a clear conscience, that Singapore is still safe?
DeleteAs for UK, I won't comment on crime rates there since I really don't have any experience but at least in recent years immigration is tightly controlled and I'm sure there will be a public outcry if something like the scale of Little India riots were to break out there so politicians are sure to prevent something like that from happening.
Haha... yeah, no point splitting hairs really. Fact is, you do get crimes where ever you go. Just be street-smart about it.
DeleteBy the way, I don't have kiddo yet. I'm at the point of 'family planning', not yet at 'execution' stage :)
Also, I'm not and don't consider myself rich. I'm just 'able to get by' plus I work bloody bloody hard. I still occasionally play the song 'Jit Pa Ban' in my car. Yup, beng guilty as charged :)
Lastly, while money can buy you a branded education, It can't buy you things like civility, compassion etc. A huge part of this is influenced by the parents (i.e. my responsibility), but the environment also plays a part. Hence the dilemma.
Cheers
Colin, I refer you to Choaninki's point above - the Singapore that we remember from our childhood no longer exists and you've gotta think about what kind of future kiddo will have in a Singapore like this - oh and if kiddo's a boy, he's gotta serve NS.
DeleteCan I insert a word into your statement?
"A huge part of this is influenced by the parents (i.e. my responsibility), but the SCHOOL environment also plays a part."
Kids spend more time in school with their classmates now than with their parents - hence your money will buy kiddo a better class of peers who would have had a better class of parents who can afford the expensive school. Sorry to be brutally blunt, but it boils down to money and you've got loads of it. Good for kiddo.
Hello LIFT! THANKS for replying!
ReplyDeleteI actually love maths and love to teach it as well. But something got me thinking. An engineer student can also become a math and physics teacher and has wider job scopes but a math graduate imo doesnt have a wide job scope. I am really trying to comprehend whether the pure maths stuff that i am going to learn in a NUS will come in handy when i step into society as everything is theory and theory which doesnt seem to put into practical use but degrees like engineering , business , accountancy and medicine etc are something that you get to learn the practical skills before you start the respective career. Yes i want to teach , but i am looking further ahead such that i can be more versatile to change into other jobs (if i find that teaching doesnt suit me at some point in time {student management etc etc} ). Ultimately, i am afraid math degree provides me with limited career and its like i feel i am studying non practical materials.
Don't worry about this issue - I did a degree in geography and French and it is fair to say that geography is a totally useless degree, I used absolutely 0% of anything I learnt at university (luckily I also did French). I pretty much forged a corporate career in sales & marketing as well as media relations from scratch and the fact that I got a scholarship from a good university helped with the financial burden of going to university, but you have got to stop imagining that you will or have to use what you learn at university in your job!
DeleteIn fact, if you wanna talk about switching jobs in your late 20s or 30s, then it will be your work experience that matters far more at that stage than your degree.
For further reading, I refer you to: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/is-degree-that-important-anyway.html
LIFT, Playing Devil's Advocate re your stance: obsession with money translates directly into lack of compassion.
ReplyDeleteIts hard to draw an inverse correlation. Take Kong Hee's Prosperity Theory that money & kindness aren't mutually exclusive but the same thing, one leads to the other & vice-versa.
How does one remove the blinkers, straighten one's values & de-emphasise the importance of money, when one is constantly in short supply of it, as most S'poreans are. If we can solve this conundrum, we can solve the whole social problem!
Could you suggest some other, universally accepted ways to gain respect & self-esteem that DON'T ultimately boil down to money, yet can be recognised by everyone, not just those sharing the same industry or interests? (That last one is an honest question. Thanks!)
Hmmm. I refer you to a previous post I wrote: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/q-can-you-be-proud-of-someone-if-you.html I wrote then that I was totally frustrated by the fact that my mother cannot be proud of what I have achieved in my career because she is not very highly educated and has no idea what the hell I am doing for a living (it is way too cheem to explain to her, she doesn't understand it). My sister is head of social media in a big Singaporean organization and my mother completely has no idea what the hell social media is - she is not on the internet at all. So my mother judge our success today not by the relative merits of what we have achieved within our specific fields, but on far more basic things like, "you one month earn how much? Got buy car or not?"
DeleteLike I shared with my readers in that post, it frustrates me intensely that she is unable to appreciate the more subtle aspects of what we have achieved, especially since some of these things cannot be translated or interpreted in monetary terms, in dollars & cents - but that seems to be the only thing she can understand.
So with many older Singaporeans just like my mother, we have an older generation measuring everything by dollar & cents - and the younger generation are following suit.
As for an alternative: simple, don't default to measuring things in terms of money. Look at a nurse for example, she may not earn a lot of money like a banker or lawyer, but what she does for society showed be very highly valued and she should be appreciated and rewarded.
Hi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, this is just a general case of stressed out and tired people living in a city with an extremely high population density. Everyone and everything is in your face, so people tend to just shut things out, get as quickly from point A to B as possible, glued to their videophone in the meantime.
I take the MRT to and from work everyday, and I have witnessed both good and bad behaviour. Generally people tend to offer seats more readily during off peak hours. I suspect commuters during that time tend to be less weary, and senior citizens and pregnant ladies more glaringly obvious within a thin crowd.
Is it too idealistic of me to suggest that perhaps people would give up seats if they felt up to it? It is easy to point fingers at young and healthy-looking people dozing away when there are people who more obviously need a seat. But what if the people sitting down also badly need a seat? Some might have just pulled an all-nighter. Some might have a chronic back or knee problem that is not obvious. Some might be ill but just not obviously so.
Surely a gracious society is not just one in which people give, but also one that understands that when people don't live up to expectations, the reasons are manifold and beyond simple judgement? Living in Singapore can be tough and demanding, but the real problem is with everyone assuming that they are getting the worse end of the deal.
Hi xm,
DeleteI'm kind of agree with you. There are good and bad behaviours among the commuters in Singapore regardless of nationalities, races or age groups.
You're right that we can easily witness many people have given up their seats during off-peak hours; In my opinion, that's because those who are sitting on reserved seat will tend to be able and easily to notice if there are with special needs boarding the training. During peak hours, most of the people are so sardine-packed in the train and holding on the phone and plugging the headset blasting off music to their ears. I'm not playing a devil-advocate here, but could that be on that day coincidentally that pregnant lady was surrounded by ignorant people who are too busy with their smart-phone when it happen?
However, I am a bit irritated by how the BBC writer generalized and describing Singaporean as compassion deficit, which I would think why would she only pointed this out when this incident only happened to her. For the years of living in Singapore, she didn't notice the similar incidents happened in the train and happily lived in Singapore? If she were so ignorant in the past, may I call her "compassion deficit" as well?
I am a father of two and frequent commuter of MRT and public bus service in Singapore. During my wife's pregnancy, she is always feeling nausea while commuting, but we seen more helpful people than selfish people. We probably can't label Singaporean as compassion deficit in general just because there are 30% of the commuters are less helpful, right?
Well, I think "yes", let's have more people to show compassion towards others as a social norm in Singapore, but not untill when unfavourable circumstances happen to oneself.
Thanks for your comment. I don't agree with you but I am working on part 2, I am sensing a knee-jerk reaction towards the BBC journalist here, it's a very typical Singaporean reaction whenever an angmoh expresses an opinion on Singaporeans. It's definitely hard to quantify the % of unhelpful commuters - it's not a precise science, where did you get this 30% from anyway? You can't just pluck a figure out of the air like that. Anyway, for more on this, please look out for part 2, akan datang, cheers.
DeleteHi there, Singaporeans who go out of their way to help a complete stranger are a rare breed. Imagine the most basic acts of courtesy has to be provided like an instruction (smile, say thank you) through a courtesy campaign, it does not take a rocket scientist to realize there is something fundamentally not right with society at large.
ReplyDeleteLimpeh,
ReplyDeletexm hits the nail on the head: "everyone assuming that they are getting the worse end of the deal"
Singapore is not the largest of countries. The smallest wave gets reflected fast and amplifies the next disturbance.
The Singapore you left is no longer the same.
The change in atmosphere has sneeked in over the past 2-3 years and grew to a point where it can no longer be ignored.
Anti FT sentiments feeds resentment feeding anti FT sentiments...The chicken and the egg.
Positive news is rare.
It seems very difficult to turn the tide. Who can break the cycle? Never fight somebody who has nothing to lose...everybody is losing...not fight?
I repeat: The Singapore you left is not quite the same. Don't sweat. You will know more about Belgium than me.
Singaporeans have not changed. Behaviour is dictated by personality and environment. I know as many Singaporeans as I know Belgians who would help a stranger in need.
There is nothing wrong with the personality of Singaporeans. The environment however...it will be quite a challenge...First one most admit there is something amiss...this is the first hurdle for "vader" (vertaal naar het Engels)
Vriendelijke Groeten,
Koen
These are my general observations. I am a mother of three - I have a six year old, five year old and a 10 month old. Whenever I have to fold my pram to get on the bus with my bags and brood of 3, it is always older women who help me - yes 99% of the time it has been Baby Boomer women (local and foreign) who would help me by perhaps helping my older kids to board or carrying my bags/pram etc. On the MRT it is the same thing, when I was pregnant or when I am travelling with my kids, it is always women who give up their seats to me. Truth be told, I find the men here (other than my hubby of course) completely useless, indifferent and apathetic - be it local or foreign. There are certainly no gentlemen here on this accursed isle. Sometimes, I have to carry my (huge) pram up and down stairs and men have have brushed past and/or pretended not to look. Thank goodness there's always almost a nice aunty around offering to help.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, just last week at Parkway Parade, as I was folding my pram to get into a taxi with my 10 month old and five year old, this 30 something guy jumped the queue and grabbed my cab without even batting an eyelid. He left me fuming! Thanks a lot!
Hi Linda, thanks for your comment. I am having a busy day at work, but here are some articles I have written earlier in response to what you have said.
Deletehttp://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/the-truth-about-men-in-singapore-part-2.html
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/what-singaporean-women-think-of.html
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/what-is-wrong-with-singaporean-women.html
Woah, the misandry in your post is so high. I could say some unpleasant things about the gold-digging nature of women here but I shan't stoop to that. I'm sure if we want we can keep taking potshots at the other gender but then this gender war wouldn't lead to anything new.
DeleteLet just say that gender equality in Singapore and most of Asia in general is out of sync with the West and leave it like that. Expecting gentlemen behavior (or chivalry in general) would mean each gender stick to their gender roles but the last time i checked most local woman are no longer able to cook....
As much as the men like woman in their lives to stick to the kitchen and women like men to act chivalrous that would be a huge step back for gender equality and that wouldn't be considered progress.
I was focusing on one topic and perhaps I was trying hard to appeal to my female readers and it did work, those posts were very popular indeed.
DeleteAnd gender equality in South Korea sucks worse than Singapore - and they're an extremely modern, rich Asian country as well, that comes with being in Asia.
Hey I cook for my fam almost every day! I consider myself a deft hand in the kitchen. I don't consider myself a typical Singaporean woman though having lived in Europe for a decade and having been raised by an English-half irish grandparents. Maybe I expect men to behave like gentlemen because of my 'Wesrern' upbringing.
ReplyDeleteI want to know what chemical the government puts into those 4 seats either side of each carriage door that sends people straight into a deep sleep?
ReplyDeleteI need one of those seats in my flat, so I can use it when I have insomnia!
DeleteHi everyone: part 2 is ready: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/perhaps-singaporeans-really-arent-that.html
ReplyDelete