Peter's stories: An interview with a legal interpreter part 1

I have a good friend 'Peter' who worked as a legal interpreter - 'Peter' is not his real name as he would prefer to remain anonymous given that he is not supposed to divulge some of details of some these cases he has dealt with, so we are going to talk about the stories and his work without revealing any personal details about Peter or the people he has dealt with. Some of these stories about Chinese illegal immigrants in the UK are pretty shocking.

Limpeh: Peter, tell me about your work as a Mandarin legal interpreter.

Peter: I worked as a legal interpreter for many years - I translated from English to Mandarin and vice versa. If there was a Chinese client who didn't speak any English, I would be wheeled in to enable the conversation to flow.

Limpeh: Who are these Chinese clients then?

Peter: Mostly illegal Chinese immigrants who get arrested for breaking the law - but under British law, they're still entitled to legal representation and during the investigations, the police will need to ask them questions to understand what happened. I have also stumbled upon a few Malaysian-Chinese illegal immigrants as well over the years who have found themselves needing my help as well. These people don't speak any English but are still entitled to justice under British law. You just can't just throw them in jail without speaking to them in their language.

Limpeh: So who picks up the tab for your translation services?

Peter: It works like this: the police or court will have a budget for things like that, they call up the translation agency who then book me for the job. I send my invoice to the agency for my services and whatever payment is dealt with directly between me and the agency, I don't exchange money with the police or court - they pay the agency, the agency pays me. In the case of lawyers for these illegal immigrants, they are entitled to legal aid, so that ultimately comes from the tax payers' pockets. The money was okay, it wasn't great, but it was regular work.

Limpeh: So where do you go to work?

Peter: Police stations, prisons, courts, lawyers' offices, airports, hospitals...

Limpeh: Hospital?

Peter: Yeah, sometimes the person arrested needs medical aid and has to go to the hospital. I've seen some of them in pretty bad conditions as well when  they get picked up by the police.

Limpeh: It seems to me that I'm getting the impression that the British government actually treats these illegal immigrants quite well - when they get into trouble, they get everything paid for by the tax payer, they even get an interpreter's service, medical treatment... Like, everything is paid for.

Peter: They are getting a pretty rough deal actually. Let's look at some individual cases. Let's call this guy "Man One" - he was in prison for a long time despite not having committed any crime.

Limpeh: What was his story?

Peter: "Man One" and his girlfriend came to the UK illegally, they came on tourist visas and overstayed - they were from some village in some remote corner of rural China and were very ignorant. She was forced to work in a brothel by the people who smuggled her over. Man One did odd jobs here and there for Chinese restaurants who paid him in cash - but he was mostly unemployed and homeless. He couldn't work here legally and many restaurants were afraid of employing someone like that long-term as they could get into a lot of trouble with the law for hiring illegal immigrants. So his girlfriend gave him some of her earnings, she would cook for him sometimes, allowed him to sleep over in her room in the brothel sometimes when she was not working there.

When the brothel was raided by the police, they found Man One sleeping in his girlfriend's bedroom there. They suspected at first that he was a pimp, exploiting these prostitutes - but when they realized that he was innocent, they still couldn't release him as he was an illegal immigrant and they couldn't just let him go. He was supposed to be sent to some detention center for illegal immigrants rather than prison - prison are for criminals, a detention center would have been a less harsh environment, but somehow his case got stuck in the system as it was part of a much bigger investigation involving many individuals connected to the Chinese brothel. So he was stuck in prison for a long time.

Limpeh: When did you first meet Man One?

Peter: In prison. In Wormwood Scrubs, in West London. He barely spoke ten words of English and a new lawyer took on his case through legal aid and I was contracted to be their interpreter. I met him several times over the course of the year - each time the lawyer spoke to him, I was present to facilitate their conversation.

Limpeh: What was Man One like in person?

Peter: It's hard to judge because he was always happy to see me, very polite and I get the feeling it's only because he goes for days and weeks without meeting anyone who can speak Mandarin with, to have a decent conversation with, so when he sees me, he is happy to see me just for that human interaction, you know. I hardly think that he can be happy in prison, unable to speak to anyone with the huge language barrier. He wasn't a criminal, he wasn't a bad person - just someone who was very naive and got duped into coming to England with his girlfriend. He couldn't hurt a fly - prison was no place for someone like him. I felt very sorry for him, poor guy.

Man One was spending over a year in jail before he was found guilty. 

Limpeh: What was it like visiting Man One in prison?

Peter: It's quite intimidating! Prison is scary. After even just visiting him, I would never put myself in a position that may result in me being locked up. They scrutinize every thing you bring in with you, so many things you're not allowed to bring in with you. Like once I had a handkerchief with me in my pocket and that was forbidden. And I was like, what it's just for me to wipe my nose with, I have a cold and a runny nose. And the guards said we'll provide you with some tissues but you cannot take the handkerchief in with you. I always have my Chinese-English dictionary with me and they spend quite a few minutes going through it every time, to make sure I have not concealed anything in the pages.

There are so many gates. You are accompanied by a prison officer who unlocks one door, lets you in, locks it behind you, then you get to the next door - the prison officer unlocks it, lets you through, locks it behind you and this process is repeated many times. Security is super tight. Just mentally, it affects you - it is claustrophobic. We will then wait for Man One in a little interview room and have about 30 minutes in there with him. And I feel really bad for Man One because after each session, I would leave the prison and he would go back to his cell. I would then think about things like, oh shall I have Japanese food for lunch today then I remember he is still stuck in prison.

Peter felt guilty about normal everyday activities, like lunch, when he thought about Man One.

Limpeh: Do you know why Man One and his girlfriend came to England?

Peter: The usual story: they were told that they were coming for legitimate work, that they would meet their employers once they get here and everything would be sorted, work permit, residency permit etc. They paid a lot of money up front for their passage here - it wasn't anything epic like an overland journey through 15 countries. They merely flew into Heathrow with tourist visas but the moment they got here, their passports were taken away and they were told that they had to work off their debt one way or another or the money would be taken from their relatives back in China. Man One and his girlfriend were too afraid to get into more trouble than they were already in - so they didn't know what to do but to allow themselves to be exploited thus. They had been tricked... they were trapped.

Limpeh: Didn't it occur to Man One to move to one of China's booming cities: Shanghai, Beijing, Dalian, Chengdu, Chongqing, Guangzhou... there are so many places within China he could have gone to, in order to search for the bright lights of the city. Why England? Why London? The streets of England are not paved with gold.

Are the streets of London paved with gold?

Peter: You see, many of these people like Man One know about Beijing and Shanghai through Chinese media - they know exactly what happens to people like them who move to Beijing and Shanghai, they will work long hours for very low pay for many years and never make it big. Life for migrant workers in Chinese cities is very hard - that's no secret. Then along comes someone who sells them the story of the streets in England or America being paved with gold, these ignorant villagers don't speak English - they watch an episode of The Kardashians and believe that everyone in America lives in big houses with swimming pools, drive beautiful cars and have loads of money to spend. They believe what they want to believe in, some people are just like that you know?

My sister is a doctor and she deals with cancer patients who come in and tell her, "hey I read on the internet, if I take this special Chinese herbal remedy, it will cure my cancer. Where can I get this Chinese herb?" And my sister has to tell them that there is no Chinese herbal remedy for cancer - but when someone is terminally ill with cancer, they can choose to believe that there is some kind of 草药 out there, that there is a shortcut to solving their problems, that a simple solution does exist. People who are looking for hope can sometimes choose to believe a lie - these ignorant Chinese villagers believe that they can come to England and somehow just strike it rich, become a millionaire despite the fact that they clearly lack the right skills to get themselves a decent job in China. There are clearly huge gaps in their logic and reasoning - but that's why ignorant people looking for hope are easily exploited.

Why are we so irrational when it comes to hope?

Limpeh: Surely advertising is pretty similar - just look at all the cosmetic products being advertised on TV: buy this anti-ageing cream and you will look beautiful and sexy. As if it is going to make that much of a difference - but people gladly go to the mall, part with their hard earned money and buy that anti-ageing cream anyway because they want to believe that it will work. That's why advertising works - it appeals to such people.

Peter: Such is human nature. Hope is a powerful but dangerous drug.

Limpeh: It seems to me that it would be the human traffickers whom the authorities should be targeting, not the ignorant villagers like Man One and his girlfriend. They are the victims in this case.

Peter: Clearly. But in this case, the human traffickers are extremely hard to track down and Man One was reluctant to reveal details. He has been questioned to give more details about the human traffickers who brought him here to the UK but he always said, 我不知道 or 我不记得- like, I know he is lying and he is just afraid to tell us more in case his family at home gets into trouble, but he has to volunteer that information and we cannot get that out of him no matter how hard we try. The people arrested in the raid on the brothel were all prostitutes and their customers - the pimps who ran the place somehow got away just before the police arrived.

Peter knew Man One was withholding information from the authorities.

Limpeh: Were they tipped off? How did they get out so quickly?

Peter: I don't know - but these people are well prepared and know what they're doing, unlike the people like Man One and his girlfriend who simply clueless. Even if say, she got away by running out through the back door with no more than the clothes she was wearing with her, where would she go? Who can she turn to? Where would she sleep that night? She would be all alone in a city where she knew nobody, heck she didn't even speak English.

Limpeh: What happened in Man One's case then?

Peter: He remained in jail for over a year whilst the case was investigated - he always asked me for news of his girlfriend and was always disappointed when the lawyer could provide very little. When the case finally went to trial, he was sent to court only to have the charges against him dismissed on the first day of the proceedings - he was not guilty of being a pimp or exploiting these prostitutes. When he walked out of the court, expecting to be picked up by some other policemen and sent to a different detention center - but it never happened.

Limpeh: What he was just free to go?

Man One's case slipped through the net!

Peter: Yeah. His case slipped through the net. It happens. Sometimes the paperwork doesn't get processed in time or one department fails to notify another and it just slips through the net. Man One walked out, a free man, with no threat of deportation. So outside the court, the lawyer asked him if he wanted us to notify the authorities that they didn't pick him up and arrangements can be made for him to be repatriated to China - or we could simply look the other way, close our eyes, count to ten slowly and then turn around and say, "where did he go?" We were not responsible for remanding him - that was not our job, so he said thank you to us and we turned around. I heard his footsteps go down the stairs and he was out of sight before I knew it. I just couldn't believe what happened... The lawyer told me that cases falling through the net like that are rare - but they happen.

Limpeh: Surely someone made a mistake in the process, like there should have been someone else to handover Man One to. It is incredible that a mistake like that was made...

Peter: Definitely. But it wasn't our responsibility. I was just the interpreter. And Man One's lawyer wasn't responsible for locking him up as well. Not my fault, not my problem, not my responsibility.

Limpeh: Was that the last you saw of him?

Peter ran into Man One again in central London

Peter: Actually no! I ran into him on the bus no. 29 once when I got on the bus near Leicester Square - I couldn't believe my eyes. He looked well, he told me he was back with his girlfriend and he has a job. He didn't want to give me many more details and he then asked me how I was and then I realized - he doesn't even know me. As the interpreter, I just translate the words said by Man One and the lawyer without adding any of my own - I'm like a machine... I do not add any of my own opinions into any of the conversations that go on. So it's not like we have had any kind of social interaction. So he asked me if I was still doing the same job and I said no, I am no longer doing that. I'm doing something else now. I was just about to tell him about my new job when he said this is my bus stop, I have to go - he then got off the bus at Camden High Street and that was it. He's still an illegal immigrant, he probably has learnt to adapt to life in London a bit better, to fly under the radar and avoid the authorities.

Limpeh: I am sure my readers liked this stories. Do you have more stories about people like Man One?

Peter: Yes I do.

I will stop here for now - depending on your feedback to this interview, I may do a part 2 to follow up to this post. Please do leave a comment below and let me know what you think. Thanks for reading.