Obviously I have been asked to respond to it because I have been one of those ex-Singaporeans who didn't just kao-beh-kao-bu on Stomp about Singapore. I voted with my feet and left, Limpeh is a British citizen today and have been for many years already. This is why I would like to respond to the article - but it's probably not something I can find time to do until at least later tonight and I probably won't finish it for another 36 hours at least.
So in the meantime, please have a read of the article and leave a comment - let me know what your reaction is to Joyce Hooi's article. Let's talk about it freely and frankly on Limpeh's blog, given what a total fucking farce the National Conversation was. Thanks everyone! I look forward to an engaging debate. :)
Update: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-singaporean-emigration-debate.html
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| You know where Changi Airport is - what is stopping you from leaving? |
If we take it point by point, Joyce Hooi’s article does make sense, but it just doesn’t hang together. First she says half the Sporeans want to get out of here, but meanwhile, 49% think our govt is doing a good job. She says Sporeans are ‘painted into a corner’ but then quotes ‘migrating is a state of constant flux’. Then she claims Spore faces a ‘vice of paucity’- what does she mean, going against everything we hear on the international news media.
ReplyDeleteIt’s true for the first time we’re scared our children will be worse-off than us, but doesn’t this apply to the entire world, due to various global environmental crises. She adds that it is ironic so many Sporeans want to migrate (showing we can cope with different cultures) yet we cannot stand immigrants among us!
She is obviously talking about different groups of people, but she doesn’t distinguish them clearly making her seem to contradict herself. Furthermore she makes Spore sound like a terrible place to be unless you are rich, but later she admits this view is representative of only a ‘vocal minority’. Feel free to correct me if I misunderstood her- Im one of that vocal minority but Id be glad to know there're others.
Anyway LIFT, I have a question from the article abt being ‘flexible with multiple identities’ where the professor says our govt should recognise theres more worldwide movement & should change its policies accordingly (referring to the law of No Dual Citizenship). If Spore were to allow dual citizenship, wherein you can be both a British citizen and a Spore citizen, would you take it? Since your immediate family is here & you return whenever you need to.
Hi Lam Toh, thanks for your reply.
DeleteYeah I totally agree with your critique. I guess Joyce Hooi is simply responding to a survey, she didn't create the survey though. That's why there were elements of self-contradiction.
The main points I took away from her article are that more unhappy Singaporeans want to leave, the changing nature of emigration ("to-ing & fro-ing") and yeah the nature of emigration has changed. You have definitely hit the nail on the head when you say that she is talking about different groups of people - Singaporeans are hardly a cohesive entity.
Yeah I would gladly take dual nationality if S'pore offered it. It's just to keep one's options open y'know - but I took British citizenship because I wanted to have the chance to work elsewhere in the EU without having to bother with a work permit. With a UK passport I hit the ground running, with an SG passport I needed a work permit and that would've been a pain in the butt. But guess what? It didn't really matter in the end, cos I simply came back to S'pore as a British FT last year, LOL. I may be going to China soon for work (not confirmed though) and I know S'poreans don't need a visa but Brits do. So another passport would've been useful for stuff like that.
speaking as one who has left singapore to work elsewhere, i wouldn't necessarily give up my passport cos at the end of the day a singapore passport lets you travel really easily without the need for visa in most countries, unlike say a UK or US passport. however if the singapore govt allows dual citizenship then of course i will try to apply for citizenship elsewhere, like u said, i would like to keep my options open.
ReplyDeleteso in my case, the best option is to work overseas but retain singapore citizenship. and i think most people will probably do the same if they have a choice (i could be wrong of course)
Hmmm. I think there are several factors at play. Say if you were working full time for one company, then it really doesn't matter what passport you hold. If you choose to hold on to your SG passport, then fine they will arrange for work permits etc for you. But my case is slightly different, I am a contractor, a consultant, I pick up contracts from various sources, sometimes locally sometimes abroad. So if there was the chance to go do some work elsewhere in the EU, then an EU passport would come in very useful (as opposed to the restrictions placed on a Singapore passport). So, I beg to differ lumos - but clearly, my situation (I am a self-employed consultant/contractor) is different from yours (you're employed full time by one employer), so our needs are different. Yeah?
DeleteThe difference is whether you're looking at it from a tourist's POV (whereby an SG passport is great) or from an employment POV (whereby an SG passport is very limiting compared to say, a British passport which allows me full access to the entire EU market). And at the end of the day, it's really no big deal getting a visa - for example, Singaporeans don't need a visa for Vietnam but Brits do. I just filled up a form, submitted it via an agent prior to my flight, paid something like US$25 upon arrival and that was it. Likewise for Indonesia, when I went there last year with my dad - my dad joined the Singaporean queue, he didn't need a visa whilst I went to the International Queue where I simply handed over some USDs, got my visa instantly and ended up waiting 15 minutes for my dad as I breezed through customs so much more quickly than he did. It's really no big deal at the end of the day, it's not like someone from a country like Laos or China who may risk getting his visa application rejected if he is trying to get a visa to go to America - I'm from a rich country, they're just using an excuse to extort money from me for the privilege of visiting their country. And given that I don't visit such countries that often, it's just a minor expense.
Anyway, part of my motivation to give up my Singaporean passport is to make a point to my parents who were big fans of the PAP. My dad has since seen the light and has come to the good side but my ignorant mum is still fervently pro-PAP. It was my way of making a profound statement to them that I really have no faith in the PAP and definitely believe that I have a much better future in Europe than in Singapore. Oh the conversations we've had. The things I've said to my pro-PAP mother.
I guess a lot of what will determine this decision (whether to give up one's SG passport) is how good's one life is in the new country compared to one's life back in S'pore. If your life is just so much better in your new country, then it's a no brainer. Likewise, the opposite applies if things just don't work out in the new country. By that token, this issue should be treated on a case by case basis, yeah?
well for me we also have assets in singapore, a car which we plan to sell soon as well as our HDB flat which we were lucky to buy at a good price. if i do give up my citizenship, i would have to give up my HDB flat which i am getting a really decent rental now.
Deleteas u mentioned, we are slightly different in the sense that i have an employer while u are a freelancer. with my current company, if i worked for a while and request to work somewhere else (e.g. UK, another part of Asia) they would probably move me there provided there is a business need and they will apply the necessary permits for me. i can then continue to work overseas and also enjoy my rental income from my HDB flat. i don't necessarily see the singapore passport as limiting partly cos i have no real strong desire to work in europe or america for now. in my line of work at least, the exciting stuff is actually happening more in asia
speaking as one who has left singapore to work elsewhere, i wouldn't necessarily give up my passport cos at the end of the day.... i'm a singaporean.
ReplyDeleteI feel like I wanna respond to this with a post - but could I ask you to elaborate please? Why would this passport mean so much to your identity? What do you need to establish your Singaporean identity?
DeleteAfter all, I feel that what defines me as "a person from Singapore" as opposed to "a person with Singaporean nationality" are my experiences in Singapore, eg. going through the Singaporean education system, serving NS. Those are things that the S'porean table tennis stars like Li Jiawei and Feng Tianwei have not experienced - but I have. Yet they are the ones with the SG passport, not me. What say you to that?
Well LIFT, I think our differing views on the issue boil down to romanticism vs. pragmatism. And I do think it's the same for Li and Feng.... they're pragmatists looking out for their own well-being, and who can fault them for that? I'm a pragmatist when it comes to things like my job, but when it comes to this little red book, I am a romantic. And because of the weight I place on this book that identifies me as a Citizen of the Republic of Singapore, if I were ever to turn it in in exchange for a blue American passport, it would be the equivalent of saying "I'm no longer a Singaporean, I'm an American," whereas for you, I suppose it said "I'm still a Singaporean, but now I have a British passport that affords me all the rights of a Citizen of the EU." I don't think you can have your cake and eat it.
DeleteTo me, there's clearly something more about this little book than a permit to enter other countries. It is a symbol. Nationality is as much about your past as it is about your future. Retaining it is my pledge that my future is tied to Singapore, that if Singapore goes down I go down with her. You might say it's stupid or naive, sure. I accept that. But I think that some things surpass rationality and pragmatism. And I also think that an absolute belief in rationality is no less naive. You are free to be pragmatic about it, but I choose not to. Sure, I might be handicapped in employment and mobility by holding on to my Singaporean passport, but that's a handicap I gladly accept.
With regards to your example about Li and Feng, I believe that your indirect point is that the pro-immigrant policy has cheapened the value of the Singaporean passport. Sure, I agree you with. But is there a substitute with which we can say we tie our future to that of Singapore? I don't think so. Pragmatism can get us to many places in life, but at the end of the day, symbolism matters too.
And for that reason, amongst others, to me, this picture was the most poignant one of Singaporean politics in 2011: http://justrambling.sg/wp-content/uploads/images/edwin-koo-chen-show-mao.jpg
Interesting points Glenn. I just wanna point out to you that I don't share your POV on a few points - for example, I do identify myself as someone FROM Singapore (I was born there, grew up there up till the age of 21 after I ORDed). But I no longer hold S'porean nationality, nonetheless, I still self-identify as a person from S'pore by juxtaposing myself with people like Li and Feng and saying, I don't need that pink IC, I'm so much more Singaporean than them in so many ways because I grew up in S'pore. It's my cultural identity if you like, rather than my nationality and this cultural identity is a result of the experiences I've had in my 21 years in S'pore - that's not dependent on the passport I hold. We're talking about the past, and not the future here of course.
DeleteAs for the future, if Singapore goes down, I'll be watching from far away. I've voted with my feet ages ago and have long left. Sorry, but like you said, rationality and pragmatism vs romanticism. You know what kinda character I am Glenn. But hey, feel free to disagree with me and I appreciate you sharing your POV. Thank you. Please have a read of my full article here:
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-singaporean-emigration-debate.html
The irony is that hard headed rationality is a very Singaporean trait...
DeleteReally? I don't think so ... I humbly beg to differ. But I have already explained how Singaporeans can allow their pessimism/stubbornness to cloud their judgement (ref: my sister and her choice of hotels) in my piece.
DeleteWell that is still rationality right? Meaning thinking in terms of what does my decision get me vs what does it cost? Might be misguided rationality or rationality executed poorly but it sure isn't romanticism....
DeleteTrue... true...
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