Tuesday 10 April 2012

What the Yale-NUS fiasco reveals

Man there are so many hot topics coming out of Singapore at the moment I can barely keep up! OK I promised my reader David Hu a post on this issue and I apologize for having taken this long.
david huApr 7, 2012 01:28 PM
Hi limpeh, how have you been? I am 17 this year and is currently studying in a jc in sg. Recently, there have been much commotion about the yale-nus liberal arts college. I have two questions for u, the first ones being do you think whether the liberal arts college can flourish here given the political climate here. Secondly, the burning question in my heart is that how does employers value a liberal arts college education? I have heard some unfavorable comments from my friend talking about how 'useless and stupid' it is to go to a liberal arts college because you are just wasting your time after all. Please take time to answer my question, especially the latter one which is of paramount importance to me as the nus-yale liberal arts college is one of the institution that i am considering. Thanks!
Now, may I begin by thanking David for the question. Do I think that a liberal arts college can flourish in Singapore? Well, it's a question of supply and demand really - I see it as a business really. If there are students willing to pay good money to enroll in the college, then yeah it will flourish. I believe that the association with Yale will certainly lend a certain amount of prestige factor to the Yale-NUS College - can you go wrong with such a formula? NUS is a great university, so is Yale. Can such a marriage produce an offspring which is just as brilliant if not more brilliant than both parents? Hmmm... I believe there will be the cynics who will say, "yeah it's not Yale is it?"
I am afraid it may turn out to be the poorer cousin who is a distant relative but is simply not the real thing. We have a good example in the UK - there's Oxford Brookes University, the first response that you will get is always this, "yeah but it's not the real Oxford University is it?" So the bottom line is that it depends a lot on supply & demand and given that they expect to launch next August, it may be a bit premature to try to judge their success before their launch?

And as for how employers see a liberal arts college education, well I am not going to give you a simple answer: I have discussed this issue last year: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/q-getting-job-in-finance.htmlhttp://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/q-jobs-in-banking-part-2.html and http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/for-peixian-business-world.html to name a few. But for your sake, let's revisit this issue. Employers certainly don't expect universities to teach you everything you need to know for the job - there are some jobs which depend on a high degree of technical knowledge that they will teach you at university (medicine, engineering, architecture) and then there's the world of business where you're expected to learn practically all of what you need to know on the job (marketing, banking - the business world in general). What is the point of bothering with a degree then? It is simply a piece of paper that proves to the employer that you're of high calibre.
Now I am going to use the example of the UK as we have over 100 universities here and I am going to use the current league tables which ranks these universities as a guide. You may view the most recent UK league table here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2011/may/17/university-league-table-2012  At the top of the list, to get into any of the top 5 universities: Cambridge, Oxford, St Andrews, LSE and UCL - well you need to be pretty awesome and have excellent grades. But anything towards the lower end of the table, come on - you don't need to be a genius to figure this out. Would excellent students with good grades go to a university languishing at the wrong end of the league table? Hell no. There's an element of GIGO = garbage in, garbage out. These universities take in students with very poor grades and as the saying goes, you can't polish a turd. They dumb down the courses, make the exams very easy so they won't end up failing all of these stupid students and the result is that these degrees from such crap universities are not worth the paper they are printed on.

So if I were to take two Singaporeans who have UK degrees - Lee Kuan Yew and Seng Han Thong, a look at their universities is a simple and direct way to verify if they are made of good stuff or rubbish.

Lee Kuan Yew: Cambridge, Law no. 1 out of 95  (ie. best law department in the whole UK)
Seng Han Thong: Brunel, MBA, no. 97 out of 116 (ie. they're crap, they'll accept any idiot who can pay the fees, ie. SHT is a bueh-tak-chek idiot, but we knew that anyway.)
Yes it's an elitist world, but the message is simple: frankly, it doesn't matter what Lee Kuan Yew studied that Cambridge, the fact that he went to Cambridge means that doors will open for him anywhere he goes because of the respect it commands. As for Seng Han Thong, well where do we begin with this joker? I still can't figure out why the hell the PAP would want to be associated with a joker like that when there is no shortage of quality graduates from much better universities within the PAP.

In short, Seng Han Thong is a bueh-tak-chek idiot because he cannot get into a better university, that's why he ended up with an MBA from a university rotting away at the bottom of the league tables. Now, back to your question: can we treat all liberal arts colleges as a monolithic entity? Hell no. There are good ones and bad ones - and that's what league tables are for. Frankly, as an employer, I'm far less interested in what you studied, I'm far more interested in where your university ranks in the league table - that will instantly tell me if you're made of good stuff or crap.
And moving on to the Yale Resolution: oh I find you Singaporeans so predictable - but hey, don't get me wrong, I have witnessed PRCs behaving in exactly the same way. I don't understand why you Singaporeans are so insecure! You see Singaporeans moaning and groaning (or as we say in Hokkien: kao beh kao bu) all the time about the government, just take your pick: Temasek Review, Temasek Times, Stomp, TheOnelineCtizen and all over social media - there's no shortage of Singaporeans complaining about the current state of affairs in Singapore. But hey, these are primarily Singaporean websites read by Singaporeans, so we're just talking amongst ourselves, so that's okay, right? Certainly in light of recent events, there is no shortage of anti-PAP/anti-government rhetoric on these websites.

What happens when a foreigner, say a bunch of Americans get involved and want to express an opinion - even if it is simply agreeing with everything you have just said? Oh no, Singaporeans default to the "angmors are being racist, angmors hate us Asians, America must hate Singapore" and suddenly they get all up in arms and go on the counter attack. It saddens me that Singaporeans always default to playing the race card whenever there is a white person involved or in this case, a group of Americans (who may not all be white). My only conclusions is this: Singaporeans are by default racist to be begin with - so they naturally assume that other people (Americans in this case) are equally racist: an assumption which I believe is very wrong. I used to think that it is merely the older generation who are racist, but in light of recent events, I fear my assumption has been proven wrong.
Take this blog post for example: "Yale's self-righteousness is a joke" or this one "Yes, why should we work with Yale?"  Their arguments basically boils down to the argument that America doesn't have a great record when it comes to human rights (and I totally agree with that point) so Yale is in no position to lecture Singapore on human rights... Right?

Woah. Hold on a minute. Slam on the brakes. Can someone pull the emergency brakes please. Thank you. Like this person doesn't even freaking know what human rights are to begin with.

Salah lah uncle. Aiyoh awak yang sangat salah lah alamak. ("Mistake uncle, You are most mistaken, goodness me.") Don't confuse Yale with the American government.

Firstly, Yale is a university, an academic institution, whilst the enforcement of the law in America (which defends or curtails one's human rights in the USA) is the business of the US government. The academics at Yale are not involved in law enforcement, nor the creation of legislation which determines the human rights of people in America - that is done by the politicians and the law enforcement agencies (local police, criminal justice system, CIA, FBI etc). What are human rights? Now the link on wikipedia will explain it to you in full http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights but here are some of the ones that I'll like to look at:
  • freedom of speech
  • freedom of thought, conscience and religion
  • the treatment of minorities 
  • the treatment of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities 
Now these are by no means all the human rights there are - but these are the ones that concern most human rights activists. There are many more but I cannot talk about them all for now. Now all these issues are pretty much determined by the government's laws on each of those issues: take freedom of speech for starters. Singaporeans complain all the time about the censorship enforced in our media - most recently, there was an unspoken media blackout on the nationalities of the PRC drivers who have been involved in a spate of accidents. When there is an accident involving a local, the details would be in the newspapers - but if it involves a PRC driver, they seem to enjoy special privileges in having their identity concealed by the authorities. 

So as academics in Yale (in New Haven, Connecticut), whilst they have little or no influence over what the legislators 500 km away in Washington DC do when they make laws concerning human rights in the USA, it shouldn't stop them studying their society and talking about it. That's what universities do - they use academia to provide a framework to help us understand the complex societies that exist in our vibrant world.  Yale is such a respected university because they do it so well. By that token, Yale is equally critical of the American government - that's what they do as academics, they look at the way things are in the world, they study societies and they make observations like that. It's nothing personal - it's simply a question of being subjected to academic scrutiny. Now Singaporeans are afraid of this scrutiny. If they are going to be in the spotlight, they want it to look something like this: 
Now what you see in the video above, is a tightly choreographed, heavily edited presentation, which sells a certain vision of Singapore to the world. My first impression when I saw that ad was, "who would wear a jacket like that in Singapore when it's always so bloody hot?" Okay, he could be going to somewhere with very strong air-con I suppose - but a hawker centre? But there you go, that's my response as someone who has spent 21 years in Singapore. It is hard to watch an ad like that an actually walk away with anything negative to say about Singapore if you didn't know much about Singapore - and that's what Singaporeans like the west to do: present a squeaky clean image of a wonderful, modern city. Now the Yale reaction is based on academics digging deeper, beyond the sleek and flashy ads and looking at what is actually going on in Singapore. Is that any different from what Singaporean netizens are doing amongst themselves anyway?
The US Capitol on Capitol Hill Washington DC - not part of Yale, DUH!

Now if the American government were to start lecturing the Singaporean government about human rights, then yeah you have the right to tell them to fuck off and mind their own business. But wait a minute - this is Yale. These are a bunch of academics, not a bunch of politicians. The Singapore government does exert a lot of influence and control over NUS - but that is not the case with Yale! And what's more, these are a bunch of academics whom you're supposedly in partnership with, working together on the NUS-Yale College project. Surely that gives them the right to express an opinion about Singapore and when they speak, we'd jolly well listen. 

Now this reminds me of something I witnessed at the Peach Blossoms Marina Mandarin restaurant last year - I was there for a business dinner with some local clients and the food is excellent (but oh so overpriced). I saw this couple at the table next to us and I couldn't help but overhear what they were saying. I didn't turn around to look at them, but the conversation went like this:
Oh the food there was heavenly... if not expensive! 

Woman: Why we eat Chinese food again? I thought you said we could go eat Italian food today. I said I want to eat pasta. 
Man: You can eat Italian food anytime. This is what I want to eat today. You can order some noodles. 
Woman: I told you I don't like this place one. 
Man: Shaddup lah. When you start paying for our meals, then you get to pick where we eat. Until then, shut up and enjoy the food. You want me to pay, you jolly well eat what I wanna eat.
Woman: Why you so like dat one? I say say only cannot meh? 
"Shaddup and drink your soup lah..."

Now Singaporeans expect a lot from this NUS-Yale partnership, especially since Singapore is footing the bill for NUS-Yale. Now Singapore is behaving like the man in the Peach Blossoms restaurant. In fact, this was clearly explained in an article in Asia One by Kenneth Lim entitled 'Can't Buy Me Love'. However, what is the point of entering into such a relationship with one of the world's top academic institution if they are simply going to treat it as a business venture, where they sell their good name to the highest bidder and simply smile and pose for photos like a trophy wife who keeps her mouth shut? These are academics you're engaging with and they have a valid point. 
Listen you Singaporeans, maybe if you had made yourselves more clear before getting this far in the process, then there wouldn't be any misunderstandings. If all you wanted was a trophy wife relationship whereby you're the man in charge, then say so - but don't go into a relationship with Yale as equals and then throw a hissy fit when they actually open their mouths and express an opinion. 

After all, how many Singaporeans actually read what the academics at Yale said? Here is the full text: 

“We, the Yale College Faculty, express our concern regarding the history of lack of respect for civil and political rights in the state of Singapore, host of Yale-National University of Singapore College. We urge Yale-NUS to respect, protect and further principles of non-discrimination for all, including sexual minorities and migrant workers, and to uphold civil liberty and political freedom on campus and in the broader society. These ideals lie at the heart of liberal arts education as well as our civic sense as citizens, and they ought not to be compromised.”
Now let's see... civil and political rights, sexual minorities, migrant workers, civil liberty, political freedom - aren't these all hot topics for Singaporeans that we talk about all the time, which I have covered on my blog?  So why the anger amongst Singaporeans just because it came from a group of Americans in Yale instead of of group of people in Ang Mo Kio or Yishun? 
This reminds me of an incident that I talked about in a post last year: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/bbc-and-chinese-community-in-uk.html Allow me to quote myself: 

In 2008, I was performing at a kungfu display at a Chinese New Year event in London with a bunch of performers from China. (Yes Limpeh does adhere to the Chinese stereotype of doing kungfu/wushu - I even do lion dance and dragon dance.) We had arrived early, done our rehearsals and had some time to kill. I took a catnap and when I awoke, I just sat quietly in the corner of the room with my eyes closed - awake enough to hear the conversation that the other performers were having whilst still appearing to be asleep to the rest of them. 
They were having this heated discussion about the Chinese government and were extremely critical about the way their country was run. I grew increasingly interested as I eavesdropped for several minutes before finally opening my eyes and sitting up when they talked about the issue of Tibet and how the Chinese government had mishandled the whole issue altogether. I was pleasantly surprised at just how very critical of the Chinese government they were and I began to wake up and take more interest in the conversation.
I perked up and asked (in Mandarin), "So what do you think the right solution is to the tricky issue of Tibet then?"

"The Chinese government is doing a great job about the issue, it is not tricky at all."
"We trust our government to do the right thing - they have the best brains in power handling it."
"The West really doesn't understand Tibet - they are too quick to pass judgement on the situation."
"There are two sides to every story and people in the west do not bother to find out the whole story."
etc
Suddenly from being highly critical of their government, the moment they realized I was a part of that conversation, they were all rushing to defend and praise the Chinese communist government. 
You see - the Chinese are so paranoid of the west looking down on them; there is this crazy, unfounded fear of racism. The assumption of many Chinese people is that white people will be anti-Chinese and racist and it is up to the white person to prove that he is not a racist. So the default position is always to defend China against the racist white foreign devil - but what did surprise me was the fact that they considered me to be a racist foreign devil, even though I am Chinese and speak Mandarin fluently like them. But I will always be considered a foreigner - a Singaporean at best but never ever properly Chinese in their eyes.
Is this unfounded, crazy paranoia any basis of Anglo-Chinese/Sino-British race relations? 
There you go, now we have Singaporeans acting exactly the same way as those PRCs did when I tried to talk to them about Tibet. It's silly, it's crazy and it's downright ridiculous - especially since the west is not racist towards Singaporeans and they definitely don't look down on Singapore. Quite on the contrary, Singapore is seen as this model state where the government is super efficient and they are so good at making money that they have turned the island nation with no natural resources into the world's third richest country. In the words of Sandra whom I had interviewed, when I asked her what she thought of Singapore after having worked there, she said, "What an amazing country! It's beautiful. So modern. Very, very hot. Very clean and very expensive."
Beautiful, modern, hot, clean and expensive.

Sandra's opinion is pretty much representative of what people in the west think of Singapore - apart from the mention of Michael Fay, it is usually 99% positive and filled with admiration, even envy for having such an efficient government. Like I said before, Singaporeans have absolutely no reason to worry about the west (or any other country) looking down on them - so why this paranoia the moment a bunch of Americans make an observation?

Now to conclude, let me answer to a question that was left by 'Nala' as a comment on my previous post: "Yes there are increasing numbers of foreigners in Singapore, but again blame the government policies instead of directing their anger and discrimination against the people coming in. People are, like you, just looking for better opportunities, and if they can be found here with the lax immigration policies, why blame them for coming? I'm just curious how people like you think. I can understand the average Singaporean, without much exposure overseas, thinking this way and being highly xenophobic, but I'm unsure why you, with your extensive foreign work experience, would want all migrant workers from a certain country to leave as well."
.
It's quite simple really - it's not pure xenophobia against foreigners, it has entirely got to do with the fact that PRCs do not assimilate. If they assimilated, Singaporeans would welcome them with open arms - but clearly, that is not the case.
You know, it is so ironic that PRCs look at Singapore with a lot of admiration - I know as I have worked with many PRCs over the years in London, Dubai, Shanghai, Crete, Prague and Istanbul (yeah PRCs are everywhere these days...) The PRCs love and respect Lee Kuan Yew - they see him as a demi-god who can deliver miracles and they have every reason to do so give his track record. That is why so many of them want to come and live in Singapore. The moment I tell them I'm from Singapore, the first thing they tell me is usually something along the lines of, "李光耀很厉害! 李光耀很聪明!" (Lee Kuan Yew is brilliant! Lee Kuan Yew is very intelligent!") Heck, they worship and adore him far more than the local Singaporeans do.
Okay, you can't give just one man the credit for the success of the Singapore story - we have a unique way of doing things in Singapore, one that has created this success story envied by so many all over the world. People in the west look at Singapore and marvel: this is a tiny island state which is mostly made of Chinese people - but they are so much richer and more successful in every which way when you compare them to the mainland Chinese. They may be Chinese, but they're doing something special which makes them more successful than the mainland Chinese. Many just chalk this up to Lee Kuan Yew's special vision for Singapore.

Call it what you want - but Singapore has this certain "je ne sais quoi" that makes us successful. It's not one thing - it's a combination of so many factors from our values to our education system to our ethics to our social harmony that makes us succeed as a nation. Well guess what? This "je ne sais quoi" is slowly and surely being diluted by the millions of PRCs like Sun Xu who come here and have no interest in learning what this wonderful Singaporean formula is. They're not interested in assimilating or learning our ways - hell no, they think of us as dogs and cause such social problems (and they make pretty bad bus drivers too). If things go on like that, Singapore will lose its edge, it will stop being special and it will become just another ugly Chinese city like those overcrowded, ugly cities in mainland China. In short, you will lose your edge over China by becoming like China in importing so many PRCs who have no desire to assimilate.
And when that time comes (note I am not saying if, I am saying when), heck, the academics at Yale wouldn't even bother taking a second look at Singapore, ooh with someone like Sun Xu as an MP or minister. Yale wouldn't even take NUS' calls then.

So Singaporeans, will you guys just chill over this whole Yale issue? If you're still buay-song, then leave a comment and let Limpeh know what you think, thanks.

PS. If you have enjoyed this, you will want to read my other posts on the "what this reveals" series:
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/what-sengkang-bus-159-accident-reveals.html
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/smrt-impact.html
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/q-sun-xu-saga.html
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/swiss-ft-vs-singaporeans.html

20 comments:

  1. I graduated from a LAC in the States, and went through recruiting in both the US and Singapore so let me try and address your concerns re: employers.

    In the US, employers for the top jobs (banking, consulting) really do not care what you majored in, as long as you did well. I know IBers who majored in English, Physics and American Studies, consultants who majored in Art, Psychology, History etc. I have also been part of recruiting teams and, for my firm at least, the only time when your major might come into play would be when it is used as a tiebreaker. For example, the Econ major over the Sociology major, the Math major over the Art History major.

    The situation, however, is very different in Singapore, at least at the current moment. Banks frequently stipulate that entry level applicants must have majored in Finance, Accounting, Business, Econ or a related discipline. Same for management consultancies. Among my friends from my (high-ranking) Sec Sch and JC, I don't know a single person who majored in a non-business related discipline who made it to an entry level front office position in either field. (Note: I have heard anecdotes about engineers making it for the mathematical skills and structured thinking, but haven't personally met any in Singapore). Maybe this will change if Yale-NUS goes through and recruits the best students as promised, but there are no guarantees. HR in Singapore seem very set in their ways from what I've seen. On the bright side, Math and Econ are part of the liberal arts too, so you still have an option if you are looking to the business world. Don't confuse a LAC with FASS, at a LAC you can major in the hard sciences and math. At my LAC, there was even Neuroscience and Astrophysics.

    On a final note, I think it is stupid for firms to overlook LAC graduates, and really do think it is their loss... but as LIFT often mentions, recognize the game and learn to play it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Glenn, y'know, my gut instinct in reading what you wrote (which I do recognize 2b true) is this: go work for an angmor company lah. Screw Singaporean companies and their narrow minded ways.

      Delete
    2. No lah, more like, if you want to experience a liberal arts education (which I obviously think is a very good thing), be prepared to take some risk on your post-university opportunities.

      And also, it's not about ang moh company lah.... Local offices of ang moh company with years and years of the same HR practices also act the same way. Related to the evolution of tertiary education in the two countries I guess. In America, pre-professional undergraduate courses (besides Theology) are a relatively recent development. If I'm not wrong only one Ivy even has an undergraduate business program. On the other hand tertiary education in Singapore has largely been an economic driver to create an educated, workplace-ready group...

      Delete
  2. Oh yeah and... I still don't understand why Yale was chosen to partner NUS in this project... it isn't even a bleeding LAC in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Wow! That was a good read! I nvr read such a detailed analysis of this issue. U must have put in lots of efforts on it. Really an eye opener. Thks for the excellent article. I also blog on this issue. padaly.wordpress.con
    Your blog is now a must read for me! Jia You!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Padaly and thanks. May I direct you to something I wrote in Feb: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/q-where-do-you-find-time-to-write.html Basically, I have several drafts on the go at any one time and some do not make it to getting published, some end up longer than others and some end up dealing with 2 instead of 1 issues - and of course, there are also topical issues. I think I was able to do this issue more justice because I didn't jump in the moment it happened (well, I did jump in when the bus accidents happened, but who didn't?) - but given that the Yale-NUS thing had been bubbling away for ages amongst netizens and I wanted to see what the fuss was about, so I started a draft a while ago and drafts are nothing more than a bunch of bullet points; once a list of bullet points look substantial, then it would be given the chance to be developed into a full article. Believe you me, getting a decent set of like 5-8 bullet points is the hard part, it's the main framework to the piece; actually writing it once I have the bullet points is the faster and easier part. Thanks for reading :)

      Delete
  4. I suppose there would not be a very big problem if the commentators on the Yale issue didn't have such a warped impression of what Singapore is like. We get mentioned in the same breath as North Korea and the Taliban. People think that the death sentence is for consuming drugs. People actually believe that you can get fined for not flushing the toilet. (Technically there is a rule but I don't see how it can be enforced.) People think that you can get arrested for criticising the government. (I answered that allegation with a newspaper clip of Lui Tuck Yew apologising for the subway breakdowns). People think you can get arrested in the middle of the night to get interrogated by the ISD. (Actually they do but Operation Spectrum was a really really long time ago).

    Singapore does not have all the civil rights. In addition, civil rights in the US are eroding because of the influence of lobbies. The struggle for civil rights in the US is still on-going even today. Singapore is a glass that is half full, and I don't mind it if they say that it's half empty. But there are a lot of smart alecks out there who would tell you that it's totally empty and that's not right!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Groan... 7-8, you didn't read my article did you?

      At no point did I say that the civil rights situation in the US is desirable or satisfactory, in fact, my key point was that you should NOT confuse Yale - a university, an academic institution for the US government. Yes the US government makes mistakes and they have their problems with civil rights in the US - does that mean that Yale should shut the fuck up and not criticize anyone, not the US not Singapore not any country in the world?

      Of course not. Yale is an academic institution whose job is to study, analyze and understand the problems of the world and it is their job to talk about it and they have every right to express an opinion. You may not agree with what they say, you may not like what they say and it is your right to disagree with them - but to even suggest that the lack of civil rights in America is any reason to censor all political discourse is bullshit.

      Look, if you're buay song with what Yale said, then fine - write to them, engage them, talk about it with them and begin a conversation about it. But it's so typically Singaporean to react in this incredibly petty and immature way by accusing them of misrepresenting the situation and pointing out the problem of civil rights in America to shut them up. You are not furthering the discourse, you're merely giving a knee-jerk reaction which isn't a particularly intelligent response.

      This is not a US vs Singapore competition to see who has more civil rights - but if you wanna get into bed with Yale by engaging them in this Yale-NUS college, then what were you expecting? A trophy wife who smiles a lot and is seen but not heard? Duh. This is Yale you're talking about.

      Your response saddens me. You're a typical Singaporean who's way too insecure to come up with a decent response. You still have this stupid chip on your shoulder about 'oh angmors are going to look down on Singaporeans'. Get over yourself. You think the academics at Yale will give half a moment's thought about Singapore if the Singapore government wasn't pouring money into Yale-NUS? You bought their attention with your Singaporean tax payers' money and now you have their attention, what were you expecting, an adoring lover who has nothing but praise for Singapore?

      Duh. Get over yourself. If you Singaporeans are not mature enough to handle an academic discourse like that, then you shouldn't have engaged with Yale in the first place. Your response, quite frankly, is pathetic. People like you are a disgrace to Singapore.

      Delete
    2. You're misunderstanding how the "lack of civil rights in the US" thing fits into the picture. If the lack of civil rights in Singapore are grounds for not having a Yale campus in Singapore, then the lack of civil rights in the US is also grounds for not having Yale in the US. That's why both of them are being compared. This is not about "shut up and sit down". It is not upsetting that they have the wrong impression about Singapore. In fact I think it's not possible that they have the wrong impression about Singapore. These people are Yale faculty, they are smart people. They are using this as an excuse to cover up the real reason about their concerns, because I don't think that there's a substantial difference in civil rights in both countries. The issue is that they are being disingenuous.

      I'm not coming from this issue with the angle of "we must have Yale in Singapore." You are half right in the sense that if Singapore wasn't going into this project, nobody would have cared about this statement. It's OK for most people that Singapore is pouring millions into this sort of expensive university project - you don't see a big response about partnerships with MIT, Duke or Chicago. It's OK for Yale to release a statement criticising Singapore. That would be like going to a football match and there's some friendly exchange of insults between home and away supporters. What is not acceptable is a combination of the two.

      This is just like the Sun Xu thing. If Sun Xu were some random PRC living and working in Singapore, and he said that Singaporeans are like dogs, we'd be like "meh". (No, really). But it's because he said those things while being funded by government money, that it becomes an issue. It doesn't matter if the random person in the street says that you are ugly. But if that person was your fiance's family, in a signed statement, or even worse, that person was your fiance, and furthermore, a fiance that you have paid a very hefty dowry for, you're going to be upset. First, at your fiance, and secondly, at the person who's forcing you into this marriage. So first it's not true that we're only upset at the Americans for being bigoted / prejudiced / ignorant. Partly we expect that of Americans. We're also upset at Singapore for going through this.

      So I didn't make this really clear in the previous post, but I'm also upset at the NUS / government people for going ahead with this thing. Unless your argument is that "we" shouldn't be upset at this thing because "we" were the ones who wanted this deal in the first place, in which case you're guilty of not distinguishing the Singaporean people from the Singapore government.

      This is not about an academic discourse. This is a multi-million dollar project that Singapore should have had the guts to walk away from, but didn't. If you want to talk about maturity, the NUS people should have had the maturity to do the right thing, say "fuck you" and walk away. But they didn't. And if the Yalies had maturity, they should have raised this issue sooner. (Actually to be fair to them, in a way they had. I had read of reports 1 year ago where there was a meeting about this and out of 100+ of them, maybe about 5 turned up. ) So I feel sorry for the people who are going to pay good money and work their ass off to get the NUS-Yale degree, because the piece of paper they're getting at the end of the day is going to be tainted goods.

      Delete
    3. Hi 7-8, I must say I am impressed with your second reply, I guess I mistook you for yet another Singaporean who had the knee-jerk "KNN Chao CB Chao Angmoh suan Xinjiapo etc". Allow me to respond to your points.

      The academics at Yale are not saying "because of the lack of civil rights in Singapore, this project shouldn't go ahead" - rather, they simply expressed their concern and wanted to "urge Yale-NUS to respect, protect and further principles of non-discrimination for all, including sexual minorities and migrant workers, and to uphold civil liberty and political freedom on campus and in the broader society". I think you're going too far to insinuate that they didn't want Yale to work with NUS - it's far too late for that anyway, the deal has been done, that would be shutting the stable doors after the horse has bolted. it's now up to both parties to learn to work together.

      I am still rather irked about the way you seem to hold Yale responsible for the lack of civil rights in America. Yale is not the American government, I keep saying over and over again (and it falls on deaf ears, good grief!) - stop holding them accountable for the lack of civil rights in the US. You are buay-song with the lack of civil rights in the US, it's the Obama administration you need to complain to, not Yale!

      I can understand why you feel aggrieved at the way Yale has reacted but still, I got back to my previous point: what were you expecting? A pretty trophy wife who smiles a lot but is essentially seen and not heard? It doesn't work like that and if you didn't get what you want before getting married, then whose fault is it? There's an element of buyers beware here: NUS (with the support of the S'pore govt) entered this relationship without defining the terms of engagement - now in the world of business, that's a signing on the dotted line and handing over the cash WITHOUT reading the small print. Whose fault is it then?

      As for the S'porean people vs the S'porean govt, you voted for this govt. Well, 60.14% of you did anyway when you had every chance not to. Like I said before, you made your bed now lie in it. Tough, that's how democracies work, even in Singapore.

      As for your evaluation of NUS-Yale, let's not judge them yet ... who knows?

      Delete
    4. PS. Yale is a big, international university that is not exclusively American. Like many such universities (Oxbridge, top 10 in the UK, Ivy League in the US etc), there is a substantial number of expats amongst their staff. So please don't treat Yale like an exclusively American entity. It is an academic institution at the end of the day, one is a great international reputation - thus by that token, it attracts great brains from all over the world.

      PPS. If this is the way you feel about NUS/S'porean govt working with Yale, then you must read the part when I talked about the Canadian Hugh Harrison in this post here: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/les-singapouriens-de-souche-indigenous.html

      Delete
    5. I still feel that Yale is an American uni, and that is my experience while studying in one of the other 7 ivies. The science and engineering sections of US universities are fairly international, but the arts and humans parts are still fairly resistant to being taken over by international students, in the same way that in NUS, the FASS is still the most Singaporean section.

      There are some departments which are very closely related to the US government - think about how Larry Summers and Gregory Mankiw from Harvard are so closely related to the US government. I think that there is a certain level of discomfort working with Singapore, and their talking cock about being concerned about civil rights in Singapore sounds like a smokescreen to me.

      Yale is not big, by the way. Being a big name is not the same as being big. Liberal arts colleges tend to be small.

      I think if you want to talk about US academics passing bitchy comments about Singapore's human rights records, then it is just business as usual. But putting a resolution up is almost like - just before you get married, she wants you to sign a prenuptial, or even worse, the first draft of a divorce settlement. If there are aspects of this agreement that the Yale people are not happy with, they can kaopeh to the NUS people. When they take it out into the open, and using official channels, it means that either they sibeh buaysong about NUS, or they sibeh buaysong about how NUS has handled the issue and refused to give them reassurances.

      I was wondering why MIT, Duke and Chicago never had problems, then it occurred to me that MIT was teaming up with a good engineering school, Duke was teaming up with a good medical school, Chicago was teaming up with a good business school. In contrast we were asking Yale to team up with something that didn't exist or they look NUS FASS no up.

      Delete
    6. OK 7-8, I received my tertiary education in France and England and was never part of the American system - so I thank you for your insight on the American system.

      What you said about Yale is kinda common knowledge, really. Yeah you're spot on and we all know that. Such is Yale for you, y'know? Did the folks @ NUS not do their research and speak to enough people who do have the insight (such as yourself) before entering into this working relationship?

      As for what you said about the whole prenupt thing - well, this reminds me of an old friend Amy from uni. She wanted to marry this guy who we all knew was wrong for her in so many ways yet she went ahead with it. And when things went terribly wrong, we had this "I told you so" moment with her (sorry, human nature) and she was like, "I thought things would be different once we got married." 7-8, as much as you think I was being tactless in having my "I told you so" moment with my friend Amy, isn't what you're doing the same thing? Look, they've already come this far in the process and now things have gone wrong and wagging your finger to say, "I told you not to mess with him, he's a bad boy from da hood, what did I tell you mmm? Didn't I tell you girl? Oh no you know I told you so girlfriend? Gurl!"

      Delete
  5. Limpehft, I only managed to read your article because it was linked to my site. I feel that your opinion is as one track as the very Singaporeans you appear to mock.

    If you say that Sinkies got it wrong bcos Yale is not responsible for the atrocities US govt commits, then what's with all this NUS bashing, bcos by the same argument, NUS isn't responsible for whatever Sg govt commits.

    For some strange reason, you are able to absolve Yale, but not NUS! Why?

    Are you not behaving like the very one tracked mind of Sinkies you have been mocking?

    Here's my full reply to your very strange skewed judgement on the Yale-NUS fiasco. Yale supporters' thoughts are as one dimensional as Yale itself

    I would also like you to note my closing passage in the article which reads:

    "I notice that some Singaporean bloggers who have worked, studied and/or migrated to Europe or UK have an air of self superiority in them, believing they are able to see "outside the box", which local Sinkies can't.

    What they don't realise is that they are instead trapped in their own UK/Europe box and judge local Sinkies from that platform! Then they have the gall to mock local Sinkies of being unable to think outside the Sinkie box!"


    Are you not guilty of the above? Which is, you are unable to see that you are trapped in your own box, believing Yale has been absolved, but not NUS, when BOTH parties are in the same exact situation - ie both have no jurisdiction over their govts' doing?

    Btw, I am Canadian PR and a Sinkie citizen. So I have no axe to grind against those who emigrate out of Spore, nor do I have any grudge against PRs migrating into Spore. How can I when I am a migrant myself? Incidentally, I am now back in Spore.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have read your reply and I find your arguments laughable at times, misguided at others. I will write a longer reply to you later as a blog post.

      It's a joke that you call me a Euro-wannabe - honey, I've lived in the middle East as well and worked there, I even studied Arabic for my stint in Dubai and Turkish for my time in Turkey. Do you wanna call me a Arab-wannabe as well? I've made it very clear, I've lived and work in many, many countries around the world and this rich experience has shaped my international outlook and has allowed me to look at things in Singapore with very different eyes - in insulting me as a Euro/UK Wannabe, you're devaluing your own argument with petty insults. Heck, call me an Arab-wannabe if you want. Limpeh has spent time in the Middle East too. What shall we call you then - a Canadian wannabe?

      Heck, all hail the Singaporeans who still live with their parents even after they turn 40 and never ventured further than JB!

      Delete
    2. Cut the pretentials, er I mean credential boasting stuff and just get to the point - ie why is Yale absolved but not NUS when both have no jurisdiction over their govts' doing?

      I am correct about your air of self superiority. You even had to further boast about your "experience" in other areas of the world, as if to stamp your authority you are able to see things out of the box better than normal Sinkies.

      Yes, I agree your outlook is diff from Sinkie eyes. Sinkie locals are bias on one side - NUS. You, on the other - Yale. Some very "variant outside the box thinking" indeed! Again, am I not correct you are still locked in your own box?

      Note that I never took the position who is right or wrong stuff on Human Rights. I took the stance that Yale used their own subjective criteria to judge others. My point is who are they to do that?

      Also note your disdain for Sinkies who never ventured out of Sinkiepore, inferring they never moved further than JB. More of air of self superiority again?

      Delete
    3. Oh please, my readers love my yaya-papaya air of authority. Look, when I write posts about my adventures in other exotic parts of the world, it attracts thousands of hits because such stories are interesting. When I write about something mundane like ice cream (which I did recently: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/recipe-chewy-pandan-mochi-ice-cream.html) I got only a few hundred hits. If you don't like my yaya-papaya attitude, fine, don't read my blog - kindly surf somewhere else please. Many of my readers are in fact Singaporeans who never ventured out of S'pore and love reading my stories - they don't want to read about someone who lives 5 minutes down the road doing the same old routine that they do.

      This is why people go to the movies to watch a movie like Avatar about a fantasy adventure rather than a movie about characters just like them. People are fascinated by different experiences and the statistics speak for themselves. If my readers had such a problem with my yaya-papaya attitude, they would've deserted me long ago. They are not compelled to come here and read my boastful stories about my exotic adventures - but hey, they fucking love it and keep coming back for more, even if you don't like my writing style. You know what? I can't please everyone, and today is not your turn.

      So please, allow me to get back to my camels, I am smoking a shisha and enjoying my stuffed dates whilst trying to do a reply to your last post. Limpeh is an Arab-wannabe you know? Asalamalaikum!

      Delete
    4. Barrie, I am going to be very Singaporean and delete your latest comment as you are rude. I would just like to point out to you that my blog is relatively new as I only started blogging seriously in Nov 2011 when Mr Brown retweeted one of my blog posts and it went viral. Before that, I had only written a handful of very short pieces not knowing how many people would read them. Currently, I am attracting a lot of traffic averaging 3,000 - 10,000 hits a day depending on the topics I post. Not bad for a blog that is just over 5 months old. I am still genuinely a newbie to the blogging scene. :)

      Your blog on the other hand has been going since 2007. Naturally, over 5 years, you would've had more hits than me in 5 months. But in terms of the number of hits I have had in 2012, honey, let's not go down the "mine is bigger than yours" route - cos that's not a game you're going to play. You've been blogging for longer than I have and if you want to use your 5 years of hits compared to my 5 months, then clearly, you've failed statistics 101.

      Now, excuse me please, ismahli min falduk, the camels need feeding - I must get back to work and still try to finish that reply to you.

      Delete
    5. http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/yale-nus-saga-continues-part-1-of-2.html

      Delete