Friday, 27 April 2012

Q&A: Transgender Miss Singapore Universe

Limpeh has been asked to comment on this story: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/would-you-accept-a-transgender-as-miss-singapore-universe-.html and frankly, I didn't think I had that much to say about the issue until I read this other post: http://wherebearsroamfree.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/transgenders-miss-universe-controversy.html Barrie has been homophobic in previous posts and he has since gone on to become transphobic as well. Yeah I realized that him and I sit on opposites ends of the spectrum, I am an atheist liberal whilst he is a religious conservative - and it was pointed out to me that we will attract readers who will agree with our brand of opinions; so a big hello to all my liberal readers out there.
To begin with, I don't see what the fuss is. This whole beauty pageant thing is a joke to begin with - I honestly don't know why women subject themselves to it. The put themselves up there to be judged by others and everything from their dress sense to their hairstyles to the way they talk get scrutinized down to the last detail and judged. Nonetheless, it still appeals to the vanity of some people who adore that kind of attention. Heck, most of us can't be bothered choose to ignore it. The only Miss Singapore that most of us can remember is Ris Low - can you honestly remember any other winners? Ris Low only became a sensation because of the controversy which resulted in her giving up her crown - yet she is the only one who actually had 15 minutes of fame.
Like the commercial sex industry in Singapore as discussed in my previous post, most of us are willing to look the other way and totally ignore the Miss Universe pageant. We don't care who represents Singapore and we don't care who becomes Miss Universe either. There was a time when dirty old men used to enjoy the swimsuit round where they get to watch a bevvy of international beauties parade around in bikinis - but given the amount of free porn there is on the internet, even these dirty old men have lost interest in the swimsuit parade at these beauty pageants.
I have a friend here who actually takes part in such events - she is a model and actress and I don't like the idea of her taking part in it. Why? Because she really wants to win - sometimes she gets some small award like "best costume" and she is so happy and when she doesn't win, she gets so upset and disappointed. I'm like - how do you pick one beautiful woman over another? How can you say "this woman is more beautiful than the others?" Heck, I wanna tell them they're all beautiful and they shouldn't subject themselves to a panel of judges to pick one winner and then hang their self-esteem on the judges' decision.

Nobody should ever hand their self-esteem over to a third party like that - everyone should always believe in themselves and have self-confidence regardless of what life throws at them. I have told her so many times, "it doesn't matter if you win or lose, you know you are a beautiful woman both on the inside and outside" but she doesn't get it and she keeps taking part in these contests. Sigh.  It's not like she's some kind of silly brainless bimbo - she is so intelligent, yet she needs people to validate her beauty. She is not content with liking what she sees in the mirror, she needs a panel of judges to give her a score. Go figure.
In any case, why are people kicking up such a big fuss anyway? It's just technical change of the rules which says that transgender women can take part - it's not like there's a long queue of transgender women waiting to take part. There are none so far - given what kind of homophobic and intolerant society Singapore is. A transgender woman would have to be pretty strong (or a glutton for punishment) to take the kind of bullshit that ignorant, intolerant and bigoted Singaporeans would throw at such a contestant. And for what? A beauty pageant? You're simply not going to get any transgender contestants in Singapore. No way.

This story originated in Canada where you're simply getting a transgender contestant in their pageant, all she has done is won the right to take part. The same thing has yet to happen in Singapore and will probably never happen in Singapore. In any case, how many Singaporeans actually bother watching the pageant? Most of us have no clue who the reigning Miss Singapore is. We simply are not interested in who she is or how she represents Singapore abroad. Heck, we just hope she's decent in the looks department and is more articulate than Ris Low.
Let's use a different example. How many of you know the name of the Singaporean ambassador to Germany? Unless you're a Singaporean living in Germany, you're not going to know as it's simply not relevant to you. And even if you are a Singaporean in Germany, you're hardly going to meet the ambassador. Now what if we asked the hypothetical question: would you accept a transgender as a Singaporean ambassador to Germany? (Disclaimer: The current ambassador in Berlin is Mr Jacky Foo and I am not for a moment suggesting that he is transgender, this is but a hypothetical question!) If there was a similar poll on Yahoo! Singapore, then again, most people would vote 'no'.

Let's expose homophobia and transphobia for what it is. Most Singaporeans have no idea who the current Miss Singapore is or who the ambassador to Germany is - it is simply not of interest to them. Yet the moment they are given a chance to exercise homophobia and/or transphobia - they want to voice their disapproval of transgender people. This is such utter hypocrisy.

I say, if people wanna run these pageants and can find willing participants, then why not? It's a big industry that attracts loads of sponsors from the beauty and grooming industry. Some of the sponsors of the Miss Singapore Beauty Pageant include those from the beauty and grooming industry: Grace Mask, Aileron Wellness,  The Hair Secrets and White Dental Group. Of course, it is hardly surprising to find such brands wanting to sponsor an event which celebrates physical beauty and use this as a platform to sell their expensive treatments and products. Such is the way the commercial world works: the more money you spend on your body, the better you look - hence isn't this an implicit discrimination against poor people who cannot afford spa treatments, expensive wellness packages, the best make up your money can buy, beautiful clothes and cosmetic surgery?
Barrie based his argument on the fact that male to female transgenders would have had the unfair advantage of hormonal treatment to make their bodies more feminine and had undergone plastic surgery to create a more beautiful female face. Hang on a minute, is there anything in the rules of the contest which forbids the contestants from using any kind of beauty therapy or beauty enhancing treatments including plastic surgery? 

I was curious, so I looked it up: http://www.ermworld.org/spore/htmdocs/events/ms_sg_pageant.htm The rules are as follows: 
 A Singapore Citizen or Permanent Resident
17 to 26 years of age as at 1st May 2012
Not married or had marriage annulled
A natural female by birth
Has never given birth to a child
Who have never won a Miss Singapore Pageant title previously.
No criminal record or under probation.
Ris Low had a criminal record and was under probation when she took part...

As you can see, there's no reference to cosmetic surgery or any kind of unfair advantage when it comes to using expensive beauty treatments - why? Because these are our very sponsors of the event. The White Dental Group is one of the sponsors of the event - they're not cheap, oh no but they're very good. It doesn't matter how screwed up your teeth may be, let their dentists work on your teeth they will work their wonders - straightening up even the most crooked teeth through the wonders of modern orthodontics. Yellow or even brown teeth? No problem, they have a whitening programme that will bleach even the most coffee and tobacco stained teeth - with the right amount of money, they will give you the perfect smile you desire.
But wait... doesn't that tantamount to cosmetic surgery? After all, one's teeth and one's smile is one of the most important part of the face - aren't we simply paying a dentist a lot of money to surgically create the perfect smile? Isn't that cosmetic surgery? And guess what? There's nothing in the rules which forbid that - on the contrary, White Dental Group are a key sponsor to the event - they would love it if all the contestants used their services to surgically enhance their smiles to boost their chances of winning the pageant. The people involved are all out to make money and boost profits - grow up, no one is there to celebrate natural or inner beauty. Wake up and smell the coffee. We call this the business world - it's money, money, money.
It's all about money at the end of the day.

Another part of Barrie's argument (which is so ignorant and stupid it is laughable) is this:
"If a bodybuilder artificially enhances his physical appearance with steroids to win the Mr Universe title, that would be illegal, right? So what if a beauty contestant artificially enhances her looks with female hormones to win Miss Universe? Won't that be illegal too?"

OMFG. Barrie doesn't know what female hormones are. He missed that lesson in class - so let me try to educate him. Female hormones - estrogen - are a group of compounds named for their importance in the estrous cycle. The function of estrogen is complex and is as follows:
The list above (taken from Wikipedia) is long - please take a moment to read it and understand the many different functions of estrogen. No where on the list does it state that estrogen will enhance the looks or physical appearances of a woman. Oh no, this is why you have women who are ugly. Their ugly bodies naturally produce estrogen but they need the help of a plastic surgeon if they want to be conventionally beautiful by modern standards.
Estrogen will not enhance your looks. It will not make you prettier. 

If all it takes is estrogen to be beautiful, then ugly women around the world would be asking for it at the doctors and pharmacies. Ooh and then all women who can afford extra doses of estrogen would become great beauties, right? No, it doesn't work this way. Estrogen is not miracle cure that delivers instant beauty and having higher than levels of estrogen poses a health risk.  This can lead to an increased risk of thrombosis, myocardial infarction, stroke, invasive breast cancer, pulmonary emboli and DVT in postmenopausal women 50 years of age or older and an increased risk of dementia in postmenopausal women 65 years of age or older using PremPro, which is 0.625 mg of CEE with 2.5 mg of the progestin medroxyprogesterone acetate.

In essence whilst it is a vital hormone for women, having enhanced doses of estrogen in your body does not make your more beautiful - instead, it brings serious health risks that can lead to death. This basically rips apart Barrie's argument - he has written an entire piece based on totally flawed science. Dude, please, tolong lah, very malu when you get the science wrong. If you want to talk about plastic surgery, then what about the biologically female women who have had plastic surgery as well? There is no rule banning plastic surgery. But you're totally barking up the wrong tree on the issue of estrogen.
And let's say, even if there is a rule banning all contestants who have ever had plastic surgery, how are you going to enforce it? Are you going to say, "excuse me Miss, your breasts are rather large, I am going to have to inspect them because I suspect you have had breast enhancement surgery. I am the official boob inspector." Would you be subjecting every single contestant to detailed medical examination for any kind of surgical scars? Where do you draw the line anyway? Is a nose job okay if it's to repair an injury? Is a bit of botox acceptable? What about a bit of collagen for the lips? What about Lasik surgery for the eyes? What about models who have had extensive orthodontic work to get the perfect smile? What about a course of expensive teeth whitening then?

What is the alternative then? Some kind of Amish-style beauty pageant where women are not allowed any kind of cosmetic enhancement, no make up, no fancy clothes, where everything is stripped down to the bare minimum? Good luck finding a sponsor for that kind of event.
Not that I condone plastic surgery (I think we should all be content with our bodies and focus on inner beauty), but if you start banning contestants with any kind of plastic surgery, well you won't be left with many contestants and you'll scare many of the sponsors away. Let's face it - it's a shallow contest, it's not about inner beauty, that's how Ris Low won. Let's not pretend it's anything but a shallow, frivolous, hedonistic fun activity - and if that is the nature of the event, why should one exclude transgender women if they want to be a part of it?

Besides, Barrie isn't just ignorant of science, he had a very flawed view of female beauty as well. He seems to think that the more womanly or feminine a model is, the more beautiful she is. Well, it doesn't work like that. There are many female popstars, models and actresses who are boyish, even quite androgynous in their appearances and are incredibly popular and considered very attractive. Take British actress Tilda Swinton  for example, her style is very androgynous and quite deliberately so - and who is to say she is or isn't beautiful the way she is? American actress Kate Moennig is another star who has a very boyish look - and guess what? She doesn't need to be extremely feminine for the public to adore her: this gender-bending androgynous look works!
Perhaps the most famous of them all is British diva Annie Lennox, once the voice of the Eurythmics, whose videos were once banned by MTV in the USA because she was deemed to be in "male drag" for dressing like a man. It didn't stop her from becoming one of the world's biggest selling recording artistes of all time having sold over 80 million records worldwide. Despite her iconic short hair and androgynous style, Annie Lennox is not a lesbian - in fact she had two marriages (she's currently divorced) and has two daughters. There are many ways for a woman to be beautiful, attractive and sexy and Limpeh knows how to appreciate the various forms of female beauty, unlike Barrie who makes simplistic assumptions on what female beauty means.
Yes transgender women are given estrogen treatment because their bodies do not produce enough estrogen, but it merely serves to make their bodies more female, more womanly - and not more beautiful. All human bodies produce both estrogen and testosterone, in biological males, they produce more testosterone and in biological females, they produce more estrogen. Hence you get intersex people where the amount of estrogen/testosterone levels produced are such that they are not clearly one gender. I have met transgender women who are not beautiful (sorry, I have to be blunt) - they may have the body of a woman but how good they look depends on two things: how good the plastic surgeon is and what the plastic surgeon had to work with. After all, a plastic surgeon is not a magician - s/he can only enhance what is already there rather than build a brand new body from scratch like in the 1970s TV show The Six Million Dollar Man.
There were plenty of other homophobic and transphobic readers who will jump of this bandwagon and take any excuse to attack trasngender people. I'm not asking Barrie to change his ways and become more gay friendly and less bigoted - I'm merely asking him to get the science right before basing his entire argument on very salah science. Dude, honestly. Tut tut tut. Just google estogen and take a moment to read lah.

I the rules do change and transgender women are allowed to take part, what makes you think they want to - given that in Singapore, this contest has been won by people like Ris Low. Whoopee. Can you imagine little girls in Singapore saying, "when I grow up I wanna be like Ris Low". Look, I actually like Ris Low, I think she's cute and funny but she's just comedy fodder for comedians like Michelle Chong. If they wanna take part in silly pageants, let them - really, who cares?
There is this major confusion by Singaporeans in general between drag queens and transgender people. Drag queens are gay men who put on women's clothes for a laugh and are loud, camp and very attention seeking (and often drunk). Transgender people are those who are born with the wrong gender, they feel like a woman trapped in a man's body or vice versa. These people just want to have a sex change and get on with a normal life. For most of them, the last thing they want is to get on a stage at a beauty event to be subjected to the scrutiny and judgment by a panel of judges and the public. Heck, they are judged by society everyday already. Okay, so there's one (just one!) transgender contestant in Canada - why are Singaporeans imagining that all transgender people can't wait to take part in this beauty pageant when this is clearly not the case?

As for the rest of his post - it's just more anti-gay and anti-feminists hatred. He attacks the "deconstruction of gender in society" - but his argument is nothing more than a hideous string of bare face lies about AWARE teaching gay ideology to school girls and introduce sex to girls under 12 - erm, hello? Absolutely no citation about where these claims came from apart from - you guessed it - his own blog. Any serious blogger would always cite proper references if s/he wants to be taken seriously.  If this guy was genuinely a religious fundamentalist hell bent on introducing some kind of strict religious law in Singapore, yeah then I would have been more worried. But given the way he based his entire argument on such flawed science about estrogen, the joke is on him and us liberals are not worried. We're laughing. Female hormones. Estrogen. LOL.
Estrogen. LOL.

So! Have you anything to say about the issue of transgender people? I am particularly keen to hear from women who have any opinions on female hormones or female beauty. Leave a comment, thanks! 

24 comments:

  1. Limpeh, I will address just two issues of relevance.

    Female hormones and its effect -
    My point is that it is unfair bcos transgenders have huge artificial amounts introduced into them. If you think that those hormones do not help the transgender, try this acid test. Get a transgender to simply dress as a woman, without taking any hormones whatsover. As for point that there are no rules in the beauty pageant to enhance themselves, that's my point! Why should it be that Mr U has got such rules but not Miss U?

    "Barrie is homophobic" -
    Limpeh, I know that you are gay. I can accept that. I accept gay people. But it is not right to say that I am a homophobe just because I do not agree with your gay ideals. Just like I don't say anyone is Islamophobe just because he doesn't agree with Islam's teachings.

    As for AWARE's sex ed in schools, it is an established fact that underage girls as young as 12 were taught homo ideals and how to have sex. Having sex with girls at such an age is a crime in Spore. Here is the AWARE's sex educator's guidebook, which was made public by Josie's team during the AWARE takeover - Aware's instructor's manual

    Oh yes, I was at the AWARE EGM. The old guard of AWARE admitted it was their educator's guide alright.

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    1. You need to separate two medical issues here: the boost in estrogen (female hormones) and plastic surgery. The estrogen will perform certain key functions, eg. changing hair growth patterns (no more facial hair, less hairy body), the growth of breasts etc - but it is the plastic surgeon who completes the job in creating the right look. The estrogen itself cannot do the job, it takes many hours of reconstruction by the plastic surgeon. Estrogen does not make you beautiful - the plastic surgeon does! Big difference. You don't get it and even when I explain it to you, you're too proud to admit, "oh I got that wrong, it's the plastic surgeon..."

      So if it's plastic surgery you have an issue with, then it should apply to all contestants taking part, not just MTF transgenders. Have you any idea how common plastic surgery is in places like South Korea, Japan, Iran and California, and it's growing popularity in China amongst the rich who can afford it?

      If you think that women shouldn't undergo plastic surgery, then address that issue - write a post about it, but don't use this as an excuse to attack the transgender community just because one transgender person in Canada wants to take part in this silly contest.

      And as for my sexuality, oh you're such a narrow minded person. Oh just because I am pro-gay you think I must be gay, or wait, I am also pro-women so I must be a woman too and I stand up for transgender rights so I must be a trans too. Duh. I have stood up for Islam so many times before, does that make me a Muslim too? I am a liberal with a strong ideology about equality and I do not need your acceptance as to whom I choose to have sex with. I think you're a terribly misinformed religious fundamentalist who wants to shove women and gays into the dark ages and impose your fundamentalist ideals on them which is highly inappropriate in 2012. A previous post, I did talk about sex education and the MOE and I had a read of the Aware's Instructor's manual - that is sex education. I didn't see anything about "homo ideals" and explaining to the students what sex is not the same as "how to have sex" or does it tantamount to asking them to have sex at age 12. You are not just content to preach abstinence, you want to preach ignorance and think that if we don't talk about sex, no one will ever know about sex. But no, nature will take over and the young people will experience puberty and their bodies will naturally kick into reproduction mode and this is when we need to give the young people the information they need to understand what puberty is. Giving them age-appropriate information about puberty is not the same as "homo ideals" and "go out and have sex at age 12".

      You're a typical Singaporean who goes into a moral panic the moment you see the word 'sex' and you think that all hell is going to break lose the moment anyone who is not married sees the word 'sex'. Duh. That's why you don't even know the basics about female hormones.

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    2. Limpeh, you really should just stick to the issues rather than going round in loops. Many times your loops have confused you into believing others said things they never said.

      I have NEVER taken the science route. That science route was part of YOUR loop.

      My contention is that if you feel that female hormones does about nothing to give transgender advantage, then the acid test is to let the transgender enter the Miss U contest - minus the hormones.

      As for your sexual orientation, I have discussed with many gays and pro-gays who are hetero. I know the difference in their stance.

      Not that I am saying it is wrong for a gay to fight for gay rights. After all if gays don't fight for their rights, why should others do it for them?

      All I am saying is that just because I do not agree with you on gay issues, doesn't make a homophobe.

      In case you do not already realise, a pro-gay hetero won't be quick to accuse me of homophobia simply because I don't agree with him - but 99% of the time, the gay will be quick to do that. And you wonder how come I know your sex orientation.

      As for AWARE's sex ed, it was because of the homo content and teaching underage girls how to have sex that's why it was dumped. That's history you can't change.

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    3. If there was a simple cure for ugliness, a simple formula for instant female beauty - ie. more female hormones, estrogen, then all women would be doing it. In fact, it is already prescribed widely for menopausal women (HRT = hormone replacement therapy) whose bodies stop producing enough estrogen as a result of their menopause. But no estrogen doesn't make you more beautiful, otherwise biologically 100% women would be indulging in HRT as a beauty therapy.

      More womanly doesn't mean more beautiful.

      Face it Barrie, you based your argument on a very wrong piece of science and when I exposed your mistake on this presumption, you then have the cheek to turn around and say "I didn't take the science route" - oh please, you're so bloody lame! So if you didn't take the science route, you're only taking the route that other religious fundamentalists take: ignorance, bigotry and fear - and I expected nothing less from an uneducated ill-informed religious nutter like you.

      Like I said, I never expected you to be liberal on the issue - I just wanted you to get your science right. That's what google and wikipedia is for, in case you need to verify the facts.

      As for my sexuality, you can say all you want. I never claimed to be straight or gay or bi or transgender, let me quote George Clooney on the issue: “I think it’s funny, but the last thing you’ll ever see me do is jump up and down, saying, ‘These are lies!’ That would be unfair and unkind to my good friends in the gay community. I’m not going to let anyone make it seem like being gay is a bad thing. My private life is private, and I’m very happy in it. Who does it hurt if someone thinks I’m gay? I’ll be long dead and there will still be people who say I was gay. I don’t give a shit.” So go ahead and scream gay at me all you want. You haven't got the slightest clue what it means - I find it somewhat surprising though that you would have pro-gay straight friends (never mind gays) given what a fundamentalist nutter you are. Most liberals like you would avoid you like plague given how intolerant you are of liberal values. I guess cyberspace is different and I get a certain kick out of pointing out how salah your science is.

      As for AWARE's sex ed, this is Singapore and we have ignorant parents like you who would rather pretend that children shouldn't hear or talk about sex and that they're not going on the internet to find out about it for themselves through google. That's why we have 17 year old prostitutes - oh the hypocrisy.

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    4. Let's just stick to the core point.

      My point - the hormones give the transgender unfair advantage.

      Your point - they don't.

      The acid test - allow transgender to participate the Miss U contest minus the hormones.

      All the science talk does not address the above point we disagree.

      As for AWARE sex ed, isn't the underage prost the exact example of the underage sex AWARE taught? That is, teaching young underage girls how to have sex? She sure must have had sex loooong time b4 she became a pro to charge such fee, with men who keep coming back for more!

      And you blame conservatism?

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    5. Barrie, I saw your latest comment by email but it is not showing up on Blogger's system and so I cannot approve it for publication; but seeing that you've not made any new points, I am just going to finish by saying that you're still refusing to admit that estrogen (female hormones) doesn't make anyone more beautiful; but if any woman contestant is kiasu enough to want to benefit from extra estrogen based on your salah science, then she is more than welcome to start HRT early to level the playing field.

      If you are unhappy with the rules of the contest, then feel free to protest to the organizers about the use of plastic surgery and other kinds of therapies and medical procedures which alter the looks of the contestants. I'm just surprised as religious people are hardly the kind of fans of such pageants - ah well, maybe you enjoy the swimsuit parade then?

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    6. No, I am not a fan of beauty pageant contests. In fact, I am against the flesh parade. But if I were to argue along that line, surely it would invoke the wrath of liberals more.

      So I took another path - the inconsistency of the liberal organisers on what is allowed and what is not. Even that was enough to arouse some debate.

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    7. I am a liberal - I think people should be free to do what they want, but in the case of my friend who keeps taking part, I have discouraged her from taking part in any further contests (as I've explained in the post).

      If you want to argue about consistency of the rules, then it's shutting the stable doors after the horses have long bolted. So many beauty queens have had a LOT of plastic surgery: http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132145&page=1#.T5q2EbMV2a8

      "Juliana Borges, the Brazilian bombshell set to compete in next week's Miss Universe pageant, is not shy about the fact that she's had 19 surgical procedures, including collagen injections in her lips and silicone implants in her breasts, cheeks and chin."

      19!?! Is there anything real left on her?

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    8. The verdict:

      http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=5712589

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    9. Kum siah! Terima kasih! Vielen dank! Merci! Kumsahumnidaaaaa :)

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  2. oh dear. i wonder if i should grab some popcorn.

    a minor nitpick with u, limpeh. "...their bodies do not produce estrogen". males do, just in smaller amounts. females produce testosterone, but also in smaller amounts.

    in the latter stages of life, a woman may need estrogen boosts in order to avoid health and mental complications. a man may need the same boost (estrogen!) as males have an elevated risk of prostate cancer.

    while not an atheist, my own gender studies (well more like casual reading) have shown me that it is a very complicated affair, medically speaking. wiki "intersex" and one will see that our cultural ideas of male and female tend to fall into two very narrow categories. while this is generally true for the majority of the population, there exist people who fall outside this range. physiologically, some will be in perfect health, where the reason for "conversion" into one gender or the other is to fit into society (for those born with both sets of genitals, or none, and everything in between).

    i'm a science guy. that is to say, i tend to follow science where it goes, even though science sometimes goes to morally contentious places (eugenics, for eg). sometimes science conflicts with itself (as an amateur, i obviously lack the training to differentiate), and sometimes science has no answer (yet).

    one such conflict is the discussion on whether transexuality (and homosexuality) is of the "nature" or "nuture" variety (are u born one, or did u learn to be one). any proper research shows that there are studies that reinforce one or the other, and there appears to be no consensus. the conflict will go on.

    however, my personal impression is that the "nature" argument is slowly but surely winning. it is amazing and frightening how much the chemical soup in our bodies control us. u think u know who u are, but no, the physical makeup of your brain decides that. while the nuturing aspect will always play a part, nature will never let u go of its grasp.

    hmm. i think i went way off the tangent. back to the beauty thing, i like to say to my friends, when a woman spends on beautifying herself, make no mistake, it is an investment. we can call it vanity, but science tells us that it potentially increases her success in society. plain simple as that. u can observe it in the workplace, if u wish. its effectiveness cannot be denied. but crucially, the science of it is that this behaviour is biologically programmed. the woman does it because it is in her nature to do so. superficially, our higher thinking functions create "reasons" for the purpose of social integration.

    i think i missed the point of the blog post again... i guess i don't really give a damn whether a beauty contest has both males and females taking part. i'll just enjoy ogling, if i do happen to watch it.

    however, as surely as death, beauty will always go hand in hand with advances in technology. rules and regulations will change to fit the times. in the future, such restrictions may be seen as quaint.

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    1. Hi Disorder, I'm happy for you to correct me on the issue of the science because that was what I attacked Barrie on as he didn't get the science right. I am not an expert and relied a lot on google and wikipedia to get the facts, so if you understand more about male/female hormones, then please help me out here. Thanks! I like your point about advances in technology.

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    2. it cannot be overstated that the use of female hormones for the purpose of feminizing a male should be done under the supervision of qualified medical personnel.

      u cannot massively dose a person without significant health risk, anymore than massively dosing yourself with vitamin c without poisoning.

      while we lay-persons simplify the affair with the term "female hormones", the actual process is a complex one (as is anything that attempts to affect the human body), involving regiments of chemical cocktails carefully prescribed to an individual, of which estrogen is merely a part.

      as any sports nut will attest, there is no such thing as a best food recipe or training regiment for everybody. each person must measure and test oneself exhaustively to determine one's optimum nutrition and exercise regiment. professionals have their own nutritionists and trainers for this reason.

      it is no idle claim that each person is unique.

      in addition, such a process facilities development of just the secondary characteristics of the desired gender. that is to say, u cannot reverse the primary characteristics of the original gender.

      in particular, the changes wrought by testosterone are essentially permanent can cannot be reversed without the help of reconstructive surgery. one will not be able to get a feminine jawline or reduce the protrusion of the brow ridge from "female hormones" at all. also, the moustache and beard stays. the facial hair might get a little more fine, that's about it.

      what this means is that, there is absolutely no way, via hormone replacement alone, to get oneself to look anything like a female (since we talking about male to female transexuals here). what u do get are the secondary characteristics, such as...

      breast development. this will be really minor. obese males do a much better job naturally, in terms of outright size.

      redistribution of body fats. more of these will go to the hips, for example. again, we're talking about rather minor effects.

      reduced muscle development.

      thinning of skin.

      psychological changes. one would be more prone to depression, and cry easily.

      in fact, once u've seen some medical reports on a variety of cases, u would most probably come to the conclusion that using "female hormones" is a highly risky affair (liver failure, higher probability of cancers and such), and only very determined individuals would want to take such risks. why are they so determined? this is another huge subject which i will not go into here, as i'm merely an amateur in such things. suffice to say, the psychology of it is massively complex, even psychologists conflict one another over it.

      this should warn us not to pigeon hole any person because of our own inadequate understanding.

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    3. now, what makes some transexuals so successful (in terms of physical looks)? it is a question of age and technology. if a person decides at a young age to transit, say during his early teens, before hitting puberty, crucially, before testoterone really does its number on him, his quest to appear feminine will have a very high chance of success. he won't even have to deal with the beard, since it hasn't sprouted yet. he will have many physical feminine attributes by default: the jawline has not enlarged yet, the other bones in the body have yet to lengthen and increase in density. his voice has yet to break. he just needs to articially enhance his breasts (via surgery, not hormones alone).

      technologically speaking, for those who transit late, reconstructive surgery is getting more popular by the year, it is evitable that we will have many highly skilled plastic surgeons who are able to mould a person into a desired shape. all one needs is money and access, and a willingness to go under the knife (and its associated risks).

      tldr; using female hormones without proper medical attention is tantamount to suicide, and does not help one look feminine without massive reconstructive surgery. if u really want to, do it while young.

      hmm i'm getting late for an evening jog. hopefully i didn't make too many mistakes. laters!

      ps: no, i'm not transexual. i'm naturally male and i am sexually attracted to females.

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    4. Thanks for the science lesson disorder - like I said, I criticized Barrie on his incorrect science and that it was easy to address. I didn't think I was going to change his opinion on the subject (nor was I even trying to); I work in finance and not medicine, so I really do appreciate the detailed science lesson. You clearly have a background in the medical sciences (or a related science field, like pharmaceuticals?) - and what you've displayed here was scientific knowledge based on education and only very ignorant people are going to accuse of being a transsexual just because you have a good knowledge of how hormones work.

      And if I may add one more factor, you talked about age & technology - can I also factor in money? Technology doesn't come cheap and all this plastic surgery is extremely expensive. Well, it doesn't matter if your a MTF transsexual or just a woman/man looking to improve her/his looks without changing your gender, plastic surgeons are so expensive and the more money you're willing to spend, the better you will look. Hormonal therapy will make very little difference in that department, it is the (very expensive) plastic surgery that works the magic. That is why I keep saying to Barrie that his science is salah - he keeps focusing on the estrogen and not the plastic surgery; and I am so glad you presented this detailed explanation on the function of estrogen. I doubt he's willing to listen to you though or he'll probably read it and realize he is indeed wrong but not respond to you (given how you've bitchslapped him with science in such an eloquent way, bwahahahaha).

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    5. i'm just a regular IT guy who happened to read stuff... anybody can get a good amount of knowledge by digging around for information, especially more so now thanks to the ubiquitous Internet.

      i used to spend a lot of time at bookstores before the Internet. it is rather sad for me to see them go one by one (the recent casualty being borders).

      in any discipline of interest, it is important to practise dispassionate reading, mainly to reduce the effects of confirmation bias. if at all possible, one should be aware of the credibility of articles read. for example, an article by a reputable body of scientists such as the american physical society that is peer reviewed vs an unknown blogger (or commenter).

      frankly, i find science much easier to understand in general, compared to the world of finance! i tried to understand credit default swaps and how it ultimately caused the financial woes we see today (suddendebt.blogspot.com) but was totally defeated by its complexity.

      i wasn't trying to bitchslap barrie at all, i merely wished to share what i knew about the matter (now the credibility has gone to nearly zero, haha). nevertheless his recent article on climate change makes me sigh.

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  3. Hrm, when someone linked me that, my initial reaction was - nah, she shouldn't be allowed to compete.

    I had no idea though, that there were no rules at all against plastic surgery. My only objection was based on having work done. If everyone can have as much work done as they like... then I see no reason that she shouldn't be able to compete and win. XD

    <.< However, if there are no rules against getting work done, then I guess it turns into something closer to 'Who's got the best surgeon then!'

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    1. Precisely. And by logical extension, good plastic surgeons are v expensive and the more money you have, the better your plastic surgeon so it boils down to money at the end of the day - this is discrimination against the poor, such is the world we live in. I don't see how a "no plastic surgery rule" is enforcable though, given how the beauty industry is the biggest sponsor of such beauty pageant events. I don't like the whole concept of beauty pageants and putting yourself up there for judgment and I think women shouldn't take part - but then again, I am a liberal, if they wanna subject themselves to it, they should be allowed to.

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    2. Haha, the challenges that technology brings. It seems to me that back in the old days (e.g. 60's) each model has her unique beautiful look. But nowadays, many beautiful people just look alike to me.

      From rumours that I heard about small-time beauty pageants decades ago in Singapore, there was already a situation of "discrimination against the poor". E.g. Rumours such as if a participant is rich and/or well-connected, she is likely to win something. If not the top 3 prizes, then at least some consolations such as Miss Photogenic or Miss Personality. Perhaps they can add another category, "Miss Best Plastic-Surgery Spokeswoman".

      Anyway, women take part in beauty contests for various reasons. Some do it for external validation. Some do it for vanity. Some do it for the prize/contract money. Some for the fame. Some do it because their moms groom them to. Some do it to open doorways to other beauty-related careers (modelling, acting, PR, etc). As long as it makes them happy, anything goes. Another decades-old "true story" from friends: At the yearly D&D of a certain Singapore bank, the female winner of "Miss [bank_initials]" will often be fast-tracked on the corporate hierarchy. Guess some pageants can even boost one's career if one is beautiful and willing to "play" with the "big boys".

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    3. Hi WD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery - plastic surgery has been used over the centuries by doctors to help patients who have had some kind of physical deformity as a result of an accident or illness.

      It is only really quite recently that the widespread use of it for cosmetic purposes has become a big industry and the first sex change surgery was carried out in 1946. In 2006, nearly 11 million cosmetic procedures were performed in the United States alone. In S Korea, Japan and China, eye cosmetic surgery has become a huge industry (double eyelid, enlargement of the eye by cutting at the side).

      Not only is it expensive, it is also time consuming. These surgeries hurt like hell and you are laid up in bed after that with your face in such total agony, waiting for your next dose of pain killers. Pretty grim. You won't be able to work for a while. So yeah, you not only have to be rich to do it, you also have to be able to spend a lot of time in a hospital instead of working if you wanna indulge in plastic surgery.

      I worry about those who take part for external validation though - like my friend. Validation like that should always be internal.

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    4. Hi LIFT,

      Thanks for your reply. I agree, it is the extension of plastic surgery to mass consumption that leads to the current issues. You're also spot-on about the post-op issues too. I have seen such patients as a nurse in a Singapore hospital. Yup, one wouldn't want any visitors when one is in pain and one's face is swollen.

      I wouldn't fault women who do it for external validation. E.g. I used to have a room-mate in Singapore who was flat-chested A or AA, I forgot. Her mom was in the beauty industry and trained her from young to "look good". She was rich enough to shop all day and party all-night, but was still unhappy. We were living in a household of B, C and D cups and the landlord was a "boobs guy" (his wife is the D cups). My room-mate wanted to wear those fashion that would require cleavage to look good, but didn't want to load-up using padded bras (those are not suited for Singapore weather, too hot). Thus, she decided to go for plastic surgery which was paid for by her mom. After getting B-boobs, she was very happy. Then she decided that she would "upgrade" to C-cups the following year, since those fashion requiring cleavage would look even better with C cups. Yeah, I guess she faced lots and lots of messages, both overt and subliminal, over the years on what a beautiful woman should look like. As long as one has the money, can tolerate the pain and is happy about the change. Anything goes.

      That said, it is a rare man who appreciates a woman's natural beauty (i.e. without any make-up, surgery, etc) over the "made-up" version. I have met one, ONLY ONE, despite working for over a decade in a male-dominated industry! In Singapore, one hears of men who have affairs blaming it on their wives not maintaining their looks [黄脸婆] and women being counselled to "look good" for their spouse. So I don't think women will give up "improving" their looks naturally or surgically anytime soon. Where there's demand, the supply will come. Simple economics. C'est la vie!

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    5. Hi WD. I think there is a wider issue about external validation. I recently had a young friend who didn't get into the university she wanted despite having great A level grades - she was bitterly disappointed and emotionally crushed. Oh boy, I can give you so many examples of friends who wanted something so bad as they treated that as an external validation and I always have to swoop in and try to reassure them that they should believe in themselves rather than look to external validation for their self-worth.

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    6. Hi LIFT,

      Yeah, you're right. There are lots of insecure people around, who desperately want external validation. Speaking from personal experience, sometimes that leads to the insecure having a competitive mindset and tearing others down. I'm sure you've experienced it too. That's a big topic, I don't think we can cover it effectively here.

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