Hi guys, I'm sharing this with you as it's something that's gonna happen in mid-April so I may as well talk about it now. I'm leaving my current position but before you roll your eyes and say, "no not again", I want to reassure you that I'm leaving on good terms with my current employers. Since September last year, I have been working for a Peruvian company and at first, I was really thrilled to be in a Spanish-speaking work environment - Spanish is my fourth language and whilst it has improved so much in the last few months, it was clear that it was going to take a much longer time before it became as fluent as my second and third languages (French and Mandarin, respectively). However, problems did arise for two reasons: the main team is in our head office in Peru and I was poorly integrated into the team there given that I am working from home in London, I was never going to move to Peru as I was specifically hired to be their conduit to the rest of the world, I was going to be their international guy in London to help them conduct all their international projects. Part of the reason was the language barrier, even if I am on a Zoom meeting with the team, I cannot expect them to slow down or even speak English for me, I am expected to improve my Spanish and keep up with them. Secondly, being on a Zoom call simply wasn't the same as being in the same room as them - a trip to Peru has been impossible since the military coup last year and it has been deemed too unsafe for me to travel there until things calm down. Thus whilst I was drawing a very generous salary, I found myself often sitting at home not doing much; there were weeks when I was barely given anything to do and most people would be like, are you complaining about not being given enough work to do? Well, I thought this situation wasn't sustainable in the long run so I was going to fix it - thus I proposed that I worked for this company as a freelance consultant. Thus they could call on me for my services (and I would invoice them for it) whenever they needed me; but in the meantime I will be free to work with other companies and pursue my own projects.
As a full time employee of a company, I was limited in what I could do within corporate finance. Hence imagine if my reader Amanda brought me an interesting project from America, she has a start up company which has a brilliant invention which is going to revolutionize the way we charge our mobile phones. As a full time employee, I am obliged to present this opportunity only to my bosses and hope that they like it, otherwise I will have to say, "I'm so sorry Amanda, but my boss didn't like this project but hey, good luck finding another investor for it." Whereas if I was a free agent, I would be able to show Amanda's project to anyone I want until I found an investor for her. So from Amanda's perspective in this scenario, she would be more willing to show me her project if she knew I wasn't going to rest until I found her an investor, rather than if she knew I was limited to presenting it only to my boss. In reality, t isn't that straight forward - let me give you an example of the 'first refusal' system I had with my employer. An old friend from New York (let's call him Aaron, not his real name) showed me a property investment project in America, my company does invest in American real estate and this was a very interesting deal. So my boss thought, yes we might want to do this, it is potentially very lucrative so let me think about it. However, as my boss was so busy, he took an awfully long time to consider - you see, if we were going to do this deal, there would need to be a lot of due diligence done involving everyone from the surveyors to the accountants to the lawyers. You wouldn't just hand over a few million dollars without doing all that first but my boss was so busy we just never got round to it so I was left in a tricky situation with Aaron as my boss was in principle interested and wanted to still have that opportunity to do the deal, but Aaron needed someone who was willing to do business now rather than in six months. In the end, my boss did finally say to me, "tell Aaron to show it to others if he wants it done quickly", but at this point, we had kept Aaron waiting for four months already and oh boy, I felt bad for that.
So at this point, I finally gotten round to showing Aaron's project to another friend in London whom I know does dabble in this kind of property investments in America and this friend said, yeah why didn't you come to me months ago with this? And I had to say, well contractually, I simply wasn't allowed to. When I find good opportunities like that, I am being paid good money not to take this around town and to only show it exclusively to my boss. In the short term, my boss isn't even thinking about whether or not I help Aaron with this project because Aaron could always approach others on his own accord to find an investor for his project. But personally, I want to prove to Aaron that I can raise money for his project and find him the right investors, so I would be able to continue working with him in the long run. Therefore I have to do some calculations to decide whether I will make more money simply receiving a regular salary from my current employer whilst running into situations like what happened with Aaron, or if I am better off giving up that regular salary and having the freedom to work with whomever I want, whenever I want. I suppose there's no easy way to answer that question as I know how much I'm paid every month by my current employers but it is a huge question mark, leaping into the unknown by going it alone. However, I did have an insight into what is possible to earn: I spoke to a French friend of mine who is essentially a broker in the corporate finance world and he showed me what he has managed to earn on the last few deals he has brokered - the numbers are stunning and really, he only needs to do a few of those deals a year to be living very comfortably. Therein lies the question: which arrangement would I be more comfortable with? A regular, guaranteed salary every month or to roll the dice, go it alone and potentially make a lot more money like my French friend? Well, thankfully my French friend has convinced me that I should do exactly what he is doing - I've decided to take his advice.
I did have one friend who told me that I was insane to give up my rather generous regular salary (for doing so little work) to go it alone, but most of the other people I have spoken to have told me that if I have already made up my mind, then I should just get on with it and do whatever it takes to succeed. In any case, I did wonder how long it would take my current employers to realize they weren't getting great value out of me and I want to keep working with them as a contractor, that way they will only pay me for the work I do. Let me give you an analogy with public transport in London. If you commute to work regularly and use public transport a lot, then you would want to get a monthly or yearly 'travel card' which will give you unlimited access to public transport within the specific zone(s) of London during that period. But if you don't use public transport that much (say you mostly work from home) or if you have another mode of transport you prefer (like if you cycle or drive as well), then you simply pay for the journeys that you make each time you do decide to get a bus or train. So if I have to get to a meeting across town one morning but it is raining heavily which makes it impossible to cycle there, the I'd just use public transport and pay for that single journey. You would really only invest in a travel card if you have done your calculations and worked out that it would be cheaper for you with a travel card rather than paying for each individual journey you would make in that period. This is simply a decision that's based on simple mathematics, to work out which would be the cheapest arrangement. With my current contract, they have effectively paid a lot of money to hire me full time but they are only using me once in a while - that would be like me getting a monthly travel card when I mostly work from home: it doesn't represent good value for money for them and the situation isn't sustainable in the long run, it would inevitably have to change sooner or later'. I'd rather be the one initiating this change.
So I still have a bit of time to make sure that I have everything ready for this next step - I am still being paid my full salary as I am within this 90 days notice period and I realized, I have all this annual leave that I still need to use before the 90 days period ends, so I am going on holiday next week.Thus I hastily arranged a trip to the Cantabria region of Northern Spain for six days as I checked that it will fall to -12 on the top of Alto Campoo ski resort and the snow conditions there are great; thus whilst it is still late winter, I am going to have another skiing holiday. For now, I have at least eight companies (including my current employer) I want to work with and I'm now getting all the paperwork ready to run my own business as a corporate finance consultant to work with those partners. Things aren't going to be that different as I have been self-employed as a consultant in the past so I am in fact returning to that after having been in full time employment in my last two jobs. So there you go, I am excited and nervous about this change but I am proud that I have taken the initiative to take control of this process instead of just waiting for my current employer to deal with the issue passively - no, I am the active agent taking control of my career and I am going to make this work. On one hand, yes this change is quite daunting as I am having to assume a lot more responsibility again to make sure I earn enough money but as one of the partners I am going to work with has put it, I have already done so much over the years to get to where I am and hence it's not like some young, inexperienced 23 year old can try to do this and just work hard to get there - I have managed to accumulate my huge network of people who trust me and want to work with me over the years, having proven myself over and over again. Thus that partner assured me, "we all know that you reap what you sow but you've already done the hard work. The hard work doesn't begin now or in April, it started more than twenty years ago already"
Okay so that's it from me on this topic, I promise I will keep you guys updated and it'll be very interesting to see how all this will pan out from mid-April. As always - please feel free to leave me a comment below and many thanks for reading.
I have just signed a contract to be a freelance consultant for a government hospital here, also know as locum in medical circles. The hourly rate is definitely higher and if I can find enough work I can quit my fulltime job and do this as a fulltime gig and my salary will more than double.
ReplyDeleteI think this is the way ahead, more flexibility, better work life balance, more control over our lives in general and more happiness in the long run - good luck my friend.
DeleteHey Alex, congrats on the job change. Yeah it is a big decision choosing between a lower guaranteed payout vs. a high risk high reward path. But you aren't a 23 year old graduate with $0 in savings who rents their home, so you can afford to take the high risk path in the hopes of a bigger payout come retirement. I am interviewing at some tech startups lately, and some are pre-revenue so if they need to do another fundraising round our paths might cross in the business world. Lately I'm being flown to another state for a job interview with a law/insurance firm. I was surprised they let me pick the hotel and the airline. Maybe I should've asked for a 5 star hotel or business class, instead of picking the closest hotel (4 star) and coach. My sister was like "if it's a software job, why not just do a zoom interview?" then I realized these people are lawyers so wining and dining is the norm, unlike in software. Our dad used to wine and dine highly talented engineering consultants all the time in the oil and gas industry, so nothing special I suppose.
ReplyDeleteHi Amanda, it has not really hit me yet but I think it will after I get my last pay cheque and then I have to hustle to do deal after deal after deal in order to keep making money. It's scary of course but exciting at the same time. In order to get my ducks in a row, I have made sure I have enough passive income through my various investments so I do have money trickling in every month/quarter and I know that I will not have to worry about money as I do this.
Delete@Amanda I'm not sure you are aware, but LIFT can afford to retire tomorrow and not worry about his finances. Why do you think he can go on so many vacations? I haven't gone on a proper vacation for more than 3 years. Part of it is due to finances and the other part is due to covid.
DeleteHi Choaniki thanks for the vote of confidence but I think everything is relative lah. What kind of life do you wanna lead? Do you wanna be able to see something on the internet and say, "oh that looks nice, I'll buy it" without looking at the price tag? Do you wanna stumble upon a Youtube video about a new holiday destination, or some nice hotel in Greece and say, "looks lovely, I'll book it and go there." It's a combination of having both the time and the money to enjoy life if you're not working long hours and I'd like to think that's the best combination. Amanda as a young person has the possibility to get a very well paid job but if she works crazy long hours, then she will only commute between her home and her office, with few holidays and that's very much the case for a lot of Singaporeans who have good jobs, earn good money but have little spare time. The key factor is to get your Big Mac index so freaking high you generate income so efficiently that you have plenty of time to spare, to go on nice holidays (I'm off to Spain for 6 days from this Friday). I think the other factor is also what else you have in your life - I know this woman in Singapore, let's call her Jade (not her real name). She is in her mid-50s, she works crazy long hours in a middle level management job which isn't well paid yet she is super dedicated and loyal to her employer for another reason. She is single, no family, aged parents to take care of, not much in terms of hobbies or leisure, not exactly having a vibrant social life as her peers are married with children and so her friends tend to be so busy with their own kids they don't hang out with Jade. So Jade finds meaning and purpose by working so hard, rather than because oh I must make ends meet, I must put food on the table - like she earns enough but I do shake my head at how extremely dedicated she is for that little reward. Thankfully I am nothing like Jade, I have my social life, friends, gymnastics and a whole lot more outside work and I enjoy my work. Even if Jade does retire tomorrow, she will be staring at the walls at home in her bedroom not quite knowing what to do with herself after breakfast.
DeleteCurrently I am working 1 fulltime and 2 locum gig. I'm ashamed to say my spouse is earning more than 2 or 3x my wages and she is 10 year younger than me. But I am currently debt free and am looking at building up my networth by earning more and working less. My goal is to secure a high paying remote working gig (thru studying Masters in AI and another career transition akan datang). COVID put a spanner in my migration plans but if I work remotely I can technically go on holiday everyday and still get paid.
DeleteWhen you're married, these things don't matter as you come together as a unit, you're one family and it is the joint-income of the family that matters rather than what individual earns. At least what you're doing requires a considerable amount of brain power, let me tell you what I did today. I was on a Zoom when Mr A presented a problem to Mr B, so Mr B said there are two solutions that come to mind, the first isn't going to be cheap and the second is going to take a long time to implement. So I went to Mr C, explained that Mr B had failed to come up with a good solution for Mr A and asked if he could help - Mr C then said, hey Alex, have you thought about this? He then presented a different solution, I brought that to Mr A and he was like "wow you're brilliant you solved my problem!" Duh, what did I do? I simply asked Mr C. But if I didn't have access to Mr C's brain through my years of professional networking which led to Mr C and I being good friends who regularly work together, I wouldn't have been in that convenient position to help Mr A find a solution for his problem (and charge him for it, of course - I don't do this for free y'know).
DeleteIn my previous life I have encountered many highly paid consultants who have been living out of hotels (all paid by client) for several years. Although I was paid to travel (I went to UK to visit you) my salary was peanuts (compared to now) and I have always longed to go back to my road warrior days (all on company or client dime) sometime in the future.
DeleteYup, I'm not gonna work 80 hours a week unless they pay me a boatload that I can switch to a laxer job in 2-3 years without as big of a pay cut. But still, making a million a year for a hedge fund is tempting compared to only making $150k/year for a software company. I've been looking at calculating how much I can realistically save for retirement over my working life, and calculating how much I'd have to make. That doesn't even factor kids into the equation. In America the situation is that the software companies are super lax, like some you can get away with 20 hours a week. Remote too. But they max out at $200k/year unless you work for a FAANG company, then it maxes out at $1.2 mil/year. Then there's the startups where it's 50-60 hours a week but high risk high reward because of stock options. Then there's quantitative finance where it could be anywhere from 40 to 80 hours a week and some starting quants make $300k/year and can realistically make a million a year after a several more years. Every time on of the big banks sends representatives to give talks at my school they always say "oh it's a myth you will be so busy you have to live at the office, that's only some months of the year. Otherwise it's 9-5." So I'm really deciding what work life balance is just right. My brother right now is a software engineer, and he's content with it because he barely works 10 hours a week remotely.
DeleteLong story that I'm not gonna get into now, but I look at the both of you and the way you talk, at least you're on the same wavelength as me when it comes to money. Then there's 'Jade' as discussed above and I just shake my head when people are on a completely different wavelength when it comes to money. Like where do I even begin?
Delete@Amanda I mean if I had the chance to work as a quant I would jump on it, not for the pay but the knowledge. Many people don't know that the best ever trading performance, beating even Warren Buffett, is held by "Quant King" Jim Simons. I wouldn't mind learning his methods.
DeleteSome people live to work. I have an ex-colleague who used to go back at 9-10pm everyday in my previous JP MNC. But he is single and unattached and has pretty much nothing to do once he goes home to his shared HDB rental.
DeleteWell I used to be like "Jade", and my undergrad friends would make fun of me for spending my weekends in the library reading about an obscure math/physics topic instead of hanging out with friends. But really, I just wasn't a happy person at home due to family circumstances, so it's hard to be a happy person in general and "work" was a distraction from that unhappiness. Basically when questioning why someone is making themselves so unhappy with work, first you have to question "do they even want to be happy? Do they even know what happy is? Are they just using back-breaking work to hide from some more unpleasant emotion/trauma?" It took me a while to get to where I am today, lots of therapy and introspection, also kicking the shitty people out of my life. But even then I wonder if I should take 2-3 years "off" working a very lax software job that still pays in the 5 figure/month range, even if I don't personally like the topic scientifically, just to take time to focus on my fitness, get really good at gymnastics (maybe visit your gym in London sometime), build more lasting friendships, travel internationally, etc. Or should I go pick the scientific topic I really love and target a startup job in that and spend more working hours getting that technology off the ground and into the mainstream, because I do love science. But the latter is just force of habit, I can still do that in my spare time if I had a lax software job, opensource contributions are a thing after all. And if I have lots of spare cash and time, then I can do whatever I want while not feeling like I never have time for leisure or friends. The importance is "choice" and security, I have to keep telling myself. Because right now I do work in academia and I hate having to skip out on gymnastics because of some tight deadline and feeling like I don't have enough money. Then it's not fun anymore when I'm forced to work on something rather than doing it because I'm in the mood.
DeleteWell people can end up like Jade if they don't have a strong sense of identity, so they need to define themselves somehow and they use their jobs. Me I have so many facets to my life, so many things that I enjoy and have become a major part of my identity - thus work simply becomes a tool to keep on generating money for me to do those things I really enjoy (such as traveling, for example). I know that Jade hasn't left Singapore since the pandemic despite the fact that the pandemic is long over but Jade's sister told me about this example of how her obsession with work is next level. Jade's sister had a day off so she said to Jade, "hey I know you're working today but let me get a take away and I'll get your favourite noodles for lunch, bring it to your office and we can eat together." So she turned up at 12:45 pm with the noodles and noticed that Jade was alone in the office, so the sister said, "let's eat the noodles whilst they're still hot." Jade adamantly refused as her lunch hour was from 1 pm and so the sister was like, okay so you start your lunch hour 15 minutes early and then you get back to work at 1:45 pm. Jade refused and there was no real reason why she couldn't even be a little bit flexible - even her sister was like, fine, whatever, eat cold noodles if you want, see if I care. Even when there was no one in the office (remember Jade was ALONE in the office at that time) to look over her shoulder, even though she wasn't on a Zoom call or anything like that, she wouldn't even allow herself to deviate from her routine a little. At which point I'm like, yeah classic case of autism, like Jade must be soooooo totally autistic.
DeleteYeah Jade doesn't really know how to "live." I doubt she even cares about the dollar amount in her bank account either. It's almost as if she's playing a very monotonous sport in white collar employment where the goal is to be as rigid as possible. How do you think Jade would fair as a retiree? Probably just sit at home all day and watch TV.
DeleteBtw I managed to score a part time consulting gig with the company I talked to since I'm still in school. You're right Alex, most employers want me to be available to work at the drop of a hat. But these people were okay if I worked part time. Still, they're paying 4x my usual hourly rate as a grad student. It's not bad being freelance, you get to set your own rates. It's just gigs are unpredictable and I'd still prefer full time work since I'm much younger than you with less of a network to tap into for work. But this'll do for now until I graduate.
@Choaniki maybe you can still be a quant. There are quant jobs in Singapore, and they do take from a range of STEM fields, including A.I. Or you can go for being a quantitative developer (basically coder for the quants) then transition into being a quant(itative researcher/analyst) at a smaller company where it's all hands on deck.
DeleteWhy does Jade sound like your sisters? Except of course your parents needs like of babysitting. I know your sisters all work super hard and make good money. I'm like sitting on my ass everyday playing on my mobile and reading up on investment stuff as my scans all take a long time to complete (1+hr each person). And I usually do up to 3 scans a day only. Unfortunately my pay is like $30/hr and I'm working on turning that figure to at least $70-$80 so that I can earn even more while doing even less.
Delete@Amanda I intend to apply for a career switch to financial industry this year but let's see how it pans out since I'm not exactly a spring chicken (as LIFT can attest to). Learning for me is not a problem but ageism (and sexism) is a thing in SG as I have discovered working in healthcare. My female classmates all have better opportunities and pay just due to their gender. Doesn't hurt that they are tall and beautiful like a model. But life is unfair, what can you do?
DeleteLet's put it this way Choaniki, Jade is like my sisters as my sisters are typically Singaporean and there are many people just like Jade out there in Singapore, especially if they are older than me (for reference, I am gonna be 47 this year). So yeah Jade totally resembles my sisters in Singapore are inevitably a product of their environment - they grew up in Singapore, they didn't study abroad, they spent their entire working lives in Singapore working in Singaporean companies with Singaporean colleagues in Singapore so there's a sense of, duh, of course they're completely, stereotypically Singaporean lah in so many ways - like how would they have turned out like me without having spent time in the West?
DeleteAs for Amanda's point, I don't think Jade will retire - she will probably keep on going as long as her health allows her to. I am not sure what the rules are in Singapore about this if an older worker says, "I may be 60 or 65 but I don't wanna retire, you can't force me to retire, I wanna keep on working," then what? Would the company just allow Jade to continue working in that case?
And back to Choaniki, I am rolling my eyes, another career switch - seriously? Tell me what your plans are, I'm curious as it took you so long to get into healthcare and now you wanna switch again? Even if it's not a bed of roses, I'm curious to find out what you think would be your ideal career in finance. It took me a long time to get to where I am but I now have a lot of flexibility and autonomy in the way I operate.
Hey Alex, for a moment I thought Jade was one of your sisters, then I realized when I was working in industry in Sg I had many coworkers staying late at the office, so it's nothing unusual. Just now I had the pleasure of talking to some American lawyers who instead of trying to wring more hours out of me, wanted to make as good and unique of a product as possible so they had less competitors and can jack up the price without more time and effort. American working culture is very different than Sg(at least in white collar creative work). In Sg the boss' would probably try to copy someone else' product, but put more hours into polishing it, and try to negotiate my hourly rate as low as possible and use the example of the hourly rate of software engineers in India/China/Malaysia as a base comparison. Where's the innovation? Here in the US I'm not being paid to do regular software work that is easily outsourced to a 3rd world country, I'm being paid for cutting edge A.I work. What I don't like about SG is they try to hire as lowly paid people as possible to do "known" expertise, instead of paying top dollar for new technologies and ideas to drive innovation.
DeleteI think Sg might have a mandatory retirement age in government, but not the private sector. But if there isn't a long line of younger hungrier graduates trying to take Jade's place, then they might as well let her continue. Though to be fair, new graduates really don't get paid a lot.
I'm constantly looking out for the latest greatest trending industry to maximise my salary. In the future, specialists will be pretty much extinct and more and more people will become generalist. Whether you choose to believe it or become obsolete like those boomer taxi drivers (your choice). One such person who comes to mind is Martin Molin from the band Wintergatan. He is not only an accomplished musician but a self-taught engineer who is currently working on building a marble machine to play music.
DeleteIn the very near future (5-10 years) I predict AI will be the next in thing (if it isn't already). So I intend to study something related to AI. Why finance, you might wonder? Because unless we go back to barter trading, everyone will need financial companies and making money has never gone out of style (just ask Warren Buffett). So I intend to apply for this program once it opens up this year: https://www.ibf.org.sg/programmes/Pages/TFIP.aspx
I have other avenues too, options B, C, D, E incase you are wondering. So many backup plans incase I don't get selected. But I should never get comfortable in any position. That was my primary mistake in my previous IT job. Once my bond for my institute was competed I jumped to several companies in as many years. Which is why I am no longer working in a hospital now. But we should catchup when you next come to SG (or meet in another country overseas).
Just today I was helping my manager (a doctorate holder) compile a 115 list of citations. I'm sure if I stay on and choose to do my Masters at the current company I would have access to lots of free professional advisors (2 doctorate and 1 full professor). Can't say the same in all my previous workplaces who are just trying to squeeze me dry.
DeleteHi there, firstly for @Choaniki - I have nothing against you looking at opportunities in finance since I work in finance but what was a red flag for me was the way you think this programme is gonna be the answer to your prayers. I had a look at it and thought, oh dear - it is probably aimed at very young people and the level of entry is so freaking low that it's not going to attract the top brains in the cohort. Best case scenario is that you get a "mixed ability class" where you have some brilliant people with some goondu ones mixed together in the intake, worst case scenario is that you realize that you're the smartest person in the room and you're surrounded by idiots - there's no "idiots will be rejected" mechanism there to ensure the quality standards there. Hence it's not like an employer will look at this qualification favourably the way they would view a Harvard or Oxford degree, because Harvard/Oxford only accept the best of the best, the competition to gain entry there is so freaking intense that only the best can get a place there whereas for this programme, anyone who can pay the fees can enrol in the programme. For what it's worth as a laojiao in the finance industry, my degree was totally irrelevant (geography, LOL, so useless) but I proved myself through years of hard work in sales, found my niche area of corporate finance and then convinced people that I am so extremely knowledgeable in my field that I am worth the daily rate I command these days (which is a pretty nice number, modesty aside). It's not just my brains they get access to at this rate, but my problem solving skills which involves me tapping into my network of contacts - ie. if I can't personally solve your problem, I definitely know someone who can and I'll make that call, so your problem will be solved before lunchtime today. I would just need to caution you against putting more time/money/effort into this programme and what you think you will get out of it, is it gonna be a good investment? I don't think so, not at all.
DeleteAs for Amanda, I'm in the midst of defining my new contract as a consultant with the various parties I am contracting with and there's just no way I would be able to do this in Singapore. In Singapore, the business culture is as you've described, even if I do get a good job in Singapore, the employer would be like, "right, we're gonna work him 80 hours a week to squeeze the most out of him now that we've got him on our pay roll." It's so different in the West.
DeleteI mean I also have the option of working for 2 years for my current place and getting a fully funded masters (AI or data science will be major) and then jumping after that. There is also my various other options and my partime locum gig.
DeleteHmmmm okay if you're into AI then it's best you speak to Amanda. My area of finance can never be done by AI as I'm the one who connects the dots. So for example, someone presented a construction project in Saudi Arabia to me and asked me if I knew anyone who invests in Saudi Arabia - I replied, yup, I have my Saudi specialist, let me put you in touch with him (then I will get a cut of the deal if it goes ahead). There's not that much brain power in terms of what I do, it's just that after so many years in finance, I know a lot of people. As for AI and data science, that's Amanda's department and I'll direct you to speak to her as she is the expert in that field, not me. The thought in my head (and perhaps you could answer this question) is this: you spent so much time, money and effort switching into healthcare and have done so much training - is there any way you can 'make it work' by specializing in a niche area of healthcare so as to increase your value in the healthcare market and command a higher pay? It seems like a waste to abandon all that experience and switch into finance.
Delete@LIFT this is a question I ask myself everyday and unfortunately the (lack of) labour rights and cheapo HR practisioners in Singapore are depressing PMETs salaries. They don't look at Australia, HK, NZ, and go hmmm maybe we should pay our healthcare professional more. But instead they think hmm, we can employ cheap Malaysians, Filipino, Myanmese so why should we pay more for locals? And they are right. So wages are depressed.
DeleteAnd I have a colleague who is probably 10 years younger than me but simply because she has more experience in the healthcare industry than me she is paid much higher (several thousands more monthly) than me. I don't get to tell HR, look I have 10 years of experience in IT industry and I can help the company by so and so ways so pay me 1.5x what you will pay 2 employees. If only I can set my own wages.
And since SG is so "conventional" and cookie cutter I dont' get to create my own niche position that only I get to fill and set my own rates because we can hire 5 cheaper foreigner to do the same thing that you can do (not necessarily better thought). But everyone is cheap in SG so what can you do?
Oh and FYI for @LIFT. The TFIP course is not fee seeking. Trainees get industry exposure and are paid an allowance. But since I already have a locum gig and if this program doesn't work out I have so many industry contact to be able to jump back into a healthcare job anytime in SG or overseas.
DeleteOh and just a final note: out of my batch of 10 who did a career switch to radiography, 2 have since gone back to their previous careers. 1 is in another field related to radiography (application specialist) but not clinical based. I have sinced switch to a research based position. Only 5 are confirmed still working in a clinical role. The final whereabouts of the final person is unknown.
DeleteI thought the healthcare switch was to facilitate migration to another country but have you changed your mind about moving away from Singapore? Oh and in the west, nobody cares if I was a scholar or not. Ironically, that's the kinda thing that carries a lot of clout in Singapore of course but in the West, nobody gives a shit about what I did at school or if I had a scholarship, I have to prove myself like everyone else if I wanna do business with them.
DeleteCOVID pretty much killed everything.
DeleteBut you can still pick up in 2023 where you had left off in terms of now applying for jobs in the West within the healthcare sector to facilitate your immigration?
DeleteIt is one thing to be paid claps and singing in Singapore, no way I am going overseas just to be exploited and paid less, taxed more for a healthcare position.
DeleteThis pandemic has shown me that people worship rich psychopaths like Musk and pay lip service to essential workers like healthcare workers. Why do I want to go to somewhere like US of A and face antivaxxers and anti-maskers? We have so much of those rubbish ppl here in SG.
Hey Choaniki. I am entirely self taught in A.I, all my degrees are either physics or engineering. Yesterday I managed to get myself an A.I job consulting for a law firm on a part time basis, and I'm still a grad student (about to leave with a masters, not in CS but mechanical engineering). I managed to talk my way out of not having a CS degree by saying robotics is under mechanical (my research), and robots need eyes so I had to learn some computer vision to either program a self driving car or autonomous vacuum robot to "see". Throw in some good social skills to sell the story and technical know-how shown through prior projects, and people don't even care about your degree or what you did in school. In fact yesterday I talked more about visiting MIT in January for a coding competition. I also have journal publications, one of which is in physics and incorporated A.I.
DeleteMy take, you don't need this program to get into A.I. In fact you can study books by yourself, there's also a lot of free resources online. What you need though, is opportunities to showcase your skills and befriend experts in the field. There are coding competitions around Sg, and networking events for software engineers. Attend a coding competition, even if you don't feel confident enough to win, simply attempting the project and being in a team with other people is a great learning opportunity. Also networking with software engineers helped me a lot because I could ask if I was learning useful skills and for feedback on my personal projects. Finally, code yourself a personal website (web coding is important, I may do A.I but it still needs to integrate with the cloud and have a nice interface), and post your personal projects there. Many software job applications ask for a link to a website, and also a GitHub with the code used in your projects. It's better to network with working professionals than other students who are just as clueless as you I feel. If you were to do a masters degree, email professors asking to do research with them in A.I, they will appreciate the free labor. If you can get a research paper published, that would look amazing on a CV, especially for quant jobs.
Btw I read through that tfip link for that program, and the training allowance is freaking generous compared to what fresh graduates with CS degrees are paid. Granted, it's way less than what a quant would make starting in Sg, but it sounds like a selective program if they're willing to pay that much over 18 months considering most starting software engineer job listings don't pay that much and don't train their employees. Which makes me wonder just how much they are offering to train and how they select "talent." Cuz these banks could easily just hire a CS graduate already who already has the knowledge they need, unless the training allowance is subsidized by the government.
DeleteWell Choaniki - there are two factors that may affect your decision whether to move abroad or not: the first is your age, the fact is you are already reaching the stage of your life when you are no longer liable for any more SAF reservist activities so that's a burden that you would be soon free of. Many men in Singapore wanna live/work abroad in their 20 and 30s to avoid reservist activities disrupting their career and family life. Thus for you, that problem has resolved itself and you have less of a reason to wanna move away. Secondly, I suppose it's what kind of future you want your children (if any) to have - if you wanna have kids and don't want them to grow up in Singapore, then you will have a huge incentive to move away. But if you and your wife are not interested in becoming parents, then once again, that is no longer a factor for you. Imagine if you had a son and that boy is thus liable for NS, would you want him to go through NS or would you rather he grew up Australian or British? And as for anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers, we get that everywhere, even the UK but actually, now that the pandemic is over, they're just going to find something else to obsess about with their ridiculous conspiracy theories.
DeleteI am going to say something harsh and please Amanda, if you think I am wrong, kindly correct me. I have re-read the link and I can see it is a training allowance rather than school fees for the course and if you thus believe that it is quite generous and attractive, then surely the places would be given out to young, bright ambitious people who are in their 20s and have many productive years left rather than someone already in their 40s desperately seeking a career change. Therefore Choaniki is always going to be at a disadvantage when applying for such programmes because of his age and the way I see it, he ought to take your good advise and teach himself AI (as you mentioned, your knowhow in AI is entirely self-taught, the same way I teach myself foreign languages). Why wait to get on a programme like that when you can start today and teach yourself whatever you need to know to make that career change?
DeleteI know basic Python code having used it in some of my projects for my Radiography course. But the most difficult part about AI would be the math I suppose. And at my current workplace I have access to a PhD student who is doing a project based on AI. But he is always so busy with his research and his part-time PhD that he doesn't have time to share on the basics of AI. But I have lots of books to read about it, just that half of the stuff talked about are way over my head (and I'm sure it would be the same for Amanda).
DeleteAnd it is not what you know but what papers you have that opens doors in SG. Again refer to my comment on PSLE score (all government linked jobs still require that shit). Sure i can tell the hiring manager that I can do so and so but more likely than not the resume filtering algorithm won't even grant me an interview. How do I know? I tried applying to several 10s of entry level IT jobs and didn't get a single interview.
DeleteHey Alex. The link said it's for "mid-careerist" who has never worked in software engineering or finance. But like you said, if it pays decently well and is a pathway to a good life then the competition could be stiff. It's not so much the young person in their 20s that could be a good contender, but a middle manager/senior engineer in one of Sg's many semiconductor companies, who definitely gets paid less than a quant would. They said there is an assessment to pass, and good candidates would be invited for interview. Also, we have no idea how many slots there are, it could be anywhere from a handful to a few dozen. But to whomever can get in, the partner banks are quite good, JP Morgan and UBS are both there. Yeah but why not try both? Pursue every avenue right? This program would help with training and connections, but you can also get those yourself.
DeleteHi Amanda, fair enough - even though it is aimed at those seeking a change 'mid-career', age is still going to be a factor ie. someone who is 33 will be viewed more favourably than someone who is 43 even if they both can tick that box of being in 'mid-career'. It's not fair but then again, we all accept that life is unfair and we just have to hustle to find any advantage we can. We roll with the punches and pick ourselves up. This is why I smiled when I read that Amanda's AI knowhow is self-taught, I can relate to that, the same way my Spanish (which is so crucial to my work today) is also self-taught. We don't sit around waiting for some government scheme to teach us what to know to get ahead in life, no we simply get on with teaching ourselves whatever we need to know instead. We don't depend on others, we certainly don't depend on the government. We are fiercely independent and are in control of our destiny :)
DeleteYeah Alex, although a "golden ticket" would be nice, being scrappy and street smart and chasing every opportunity you can find is a good attitude to have. Also, I think if Choaniki is worried about whether people care about paper qualifications, he could try networking with the ang-moh software engineers in downtown Sg. I forgot the mrt station it's near, but I used to frequent a bar where lots of expat software engineers would hang out. Boardgames is also a heavy software engineer hangout, though I did once meet an investment banker who worked for Deutsche Bank there. If you can't go to the west, one can at least work for a westerner in Sg who cares more about software projects and good social skills than GPA and degrees. I know a physics PhD graduate Sgan who works as a quant for a bunch of Australians in Sg. He has such a relaxed work life balance despite making so much.
DeleteI hate to rush to judgment as Choaniki is probably looking for a job in Singapore whilst I'm a part of a totally different system in London, where we obviously do things very differently. The company that employed me since September doesn't know what degree I have, they never asked to see any paperwork, they never asked which university I went to and quite frankly, they really didn't care if I was a graduate or not. It wasn't important. The only thing they wanted to know was what my previous contract said and I had to give them a copy of that, so they were like okay if this is what the last company paid Alex, we must match that and add a little bit more to make it attractive. Oh and my brother in law works for a German boss and enjoys German like working conditions in Singapore, Amanda is definitely onto something here. Why would you wanna work for a Singaporean company and have a Singaporean boss, good grief.
DeleteBy the way Alex I think it's amazing you can speak many languages and conduct business in them. And paper qualifications aren't really useful in languages anyway as there are plenty of international students with good IELTS/TOEFL scores who just don't use the language enough to study/conduct business in it. There are just some things that can't be measured in 2 hour tests.
DeleteBtw I'm surprised about the companies asking for PSLE scores in SG, until I realized I've only ever worked for Western companies while living in Singapore, despite having some Singaporean bosses. Nobody asked about my undergrad GPA during the interviews (it wasn't fantastic, I'll tell you that). They only asked about my side projects, which I had a few because I did a lot of undergrad research. On the bright side, because Sg has such liberal immigration and economic policies that actively encourages foreign companies to set up local branches there, one doesn't need to move to the West to work in a Western environment. Just find a Western Company and work for a Western boss like you said. Usually Singaporeans think of immigration in terms of low-skilled construction workers and maids depressing wages, but there are still lots of high-skilled immigrants in finance and tech coming to SG that are hiring locals and paying top dollar. Most of the partner banks in that TFIP program are foreign banks too.
Well the healthcare industry in Sg is mostly dominated by local companies. Fortunately my current manager is not a Singaporean, she is from India and the director is from Hunguary. But most of the local bosses I worked for were very stingy and calculative (to their benefit) which created a toxic working environment for everyone.
Delete@Amanda, just because you have experienced angmo talking to you and willing to make connections with you does not necessarily mean my experience will be similar. I have been around to certain Asian countries (China, Japan) where their angmo expats act quite insular and stick to their own communities. They will however talk to the local women, for reasons I will leave you to imagine...
DeleteHi guys, firstly @Amanda, there are two aspects of doing business - firstly, there is establishing rapport and being able to speak the other person's language well is crucial to that as it demonstrates in an instant, "if I can speak your language this well, this means I understand your country and your culture, so you can trust me". You can try to establish that in English but it will take a lot longer thus this is a shortcut to establishing trust & rapport. Secondly, there is the technical details and that usually defaults to English unless you're both 100% comfortable with the other language. Now the only languages I can do the second part in are French and Mandarin, even with Spanish my 4th language, I can struggle at times whereas I'm totally happy doing technical details in French & Mandarin.
DeleteAs for Singaporean companies asking for PSLE scores, not that I am defending the system (I think it's ridiculous), the rational is probably that this is an honest reflection of the candidate's ability/intelligence. Looking back at my own PSLE primary school experience, look I came from a poor working class family and was left to my own devices - thus back in the day, those kids who naturally were smart did well and those kids with low IQs did badly, that was a rough and ready filter of the students at that stage. But then fast forward to this modern age, that no longer works because the dumb kids have parents who are willing to spend insane amounts of money on private tuition to bludgeon them through the system and subject them to endless hours of training until they can perform well at the PSLE like the smart kids. So now the PSLE becomes a measure of how much money your parents have spent on private tuition rather than how intelligent the child actually is. This begs the question - well why not just look at academic qualifications from later in the applicant's life rather than one exam from when they were 12? My answer to that is a weird one - you wanna have a candidate who shows emotional maturity beyond their years. Now at 12, you can either be a playful kid or well on your way to becoming a young adult and that can make a huge difference on how well you perform. I remember once meeting this gymnast at a training session when I visited my friend's gymnastics club in Singapore, I saw how freaking serious and disciplined he was at the age of 12 and I thought, I wanna give this guy a job when he is old enough as I love his maturity and discipline. I compared him to my own nephew when my nephew was 12 and he came across as playful and childish - it's a test of character, a very harsh one at that of course as people can change as they get older.
As for the next point about talking to expats, allow me to wade in as the guy from Ang Mo Kio who is doing business exclusively with Ang Mohs these days. What Amanda suggested is a bit daunting, ie. walking into a bar full of expats and network. Even I find that weird as I would struggle to walk up to a complete stranger in a bar and say hello - but put me at a trade show type conference event, then I'll gladly work the room and shake everyone's hand because they are all there for the very same reason: to network, meet new people and mingle. That's extremely different from simply walking into a bar full of expatriates and saying hello to everyone. The way I would do it is quite different - I would try to befriend ONE angmoh expat in Singapore in the right industry I'm trying to get into and then say, "please introduce me to your friends." So that angmoh friend will take you along and introduce you to all his/her friends and that's a far less daunting social situation compared to just walking into a bar on Orchard Road. Even I wouldn't do that, it's too difficult. I prefer targeted networking and I refer you to a song from the 1990s by Utah Saints (you're both too young to remember it) but in the chorus, the woman sings over and over again, "WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR ME?" It's that practical. If someone approaches me for networking (which happens a lot on Linkedin), that's the first question I ask rather than "what can I do for you?" As long as you can answer that question, "this is what I can do for you", then the networking can begin.
DeleteI know an angmo friend working in SG. The strange thing is that I met him while he was working in the US of A and we were holidaying in Bangkok Thailand (my road warrior days). Just like how I met you when I went to UK for a business trip (2 SG guys meeting in UK). But working in healthcare all I meet are Filipino, Taiwanese and Malaysians. Nothing wrong with them but they have been incalcated and brainwashed to accept an exploitative work environment which I could not having come from a string of foreign bosses (Portuguese, Japanese, PRC).
DeleteAnyway I finished my work and went home at 4pm today for a nap. This is something I could have never imagined doing while working for a SG boss (all take and take, no give).
Well my friend, the answer is obvious, you really really need to get out of the Singaporean/Asian work environment one way or another and do what I do. Right now, I look at the people I am dealing with through my Whatsapp messages: UK, France, UAE, Saudi Arabia, UK, Ireland, USA, Estonia, France, Italy, Peru, Spain, El Salvador, Mexico, Lithuania, UK, Ireland, UK, France, Mexico, UK, Germany, Denmark, UK, Belgium, Germany, Poland, France, Luxembourg, Ireland, UAE, UK, Peru, UK, Uruguay, Kenya, Colombia, USA, Uganda, UK, Australia, Colombia, Mexico - but you get the idea, do you see anyone who is any kind of Asian there? No, the closest I get to Asian would be the Arabs in Saudi Arabia and UAE (they have tons of money to invest). I still connect with East Asian friends socially but work wise, I stay the hell away from them as there's a simple principle about money: you go for the lowest hanging fruit. Money is money no matter whom you make it with, so if it's a hundred times easier maing money with the Angmohs, then I'll stick to that thank you.
DeleteThere is money to be made in Asia, and that would be mostly China and India. Singapore only the government and fatcats get to make money. Everyone else is exploited to hell.
DeleteI'm not saying there's no money to be made in Asia, but put yourself in my shoes for a moment - I am a freelance corporate finance business consultant. I have to find people who are willing to use my services and from that perspective, I find it so much easier to work with white people (along with Arabs, Latin Americans and even Africans) rather than Asian people. With my French business partners, they offer me a fair deal because they know that they want me to be happy, so I can continue to add value to their business and we can continue working together in the long run whereas with Asian people, I worry they will try to pull a fast one on me, potong jalan, stab me in the back for short term gain even if that means me never ever working with them again. Different culture. This is why I will always work with French people and never with Chinese people.
DeleteBtw I'd just like to add that the Ang-moh business culture really puts an emphasis on trust and long term working relationships than minimizing cost in the short term. I googled the law schools of the lawyers I spoke to yesterday, and they were close to the bottom of the league table here in the US. Had they negotiated everything through email I wouldn't really trust this law firm was going to pay me what I want, or if they really are making as much revenue as they claim. In contrast, when MIT sent me an email saying I'd been accepted to attend one of their competitions, I had their full trust I could go there and expect exactly what they advertised, that's the advantage of a good reputation. However, this law firm which I'd never heard of before flew me over and booked the hotel and flight, and that act of goodwill convinced me they were trustworthy enough to work with. I even got to speak to two of the named senior partners, so I felt appreciated and was more than happy to work for them regardless of where they got their law degrees from. In Asia they would just negotiate everything through email to cut costs, but it really doesn't do much to establish trust. I have to commend these lawyers for using their soft skills to get the deal done. In Asia there's too much emphasis on paper qualifications and school rank, and not enough on people skills. In the US had I been a swot who can only code and do math I wouldn't even be able to explain A.I to lawyers to get them to hire me, I'd just come off as spitting jargon. I don't think I could or even want to work in the Asian working environment after being in the US for 3 years. Although I had to learn a lot to beef up my social skills after I got here, I think it was worth it. Lol potong jalan is very accurate of the business environment in some parts of Asia.
DeleteApproaching random people on the street or a bar is of course a huge no no, not even I'd attempt that. I suppose when I said "talk to ang moh people at bars" it sounded too literal. Regarding networking, I forgot to preface that the bars I went to was for a meetup.com social event(with RSVP) specifically for discussing science and technology, which just happened to attract a lot of expats because of where it was located (proximity I suppose). It's easier to network when you're already attending a social event where people are expected to talk to each other. Meetup was also where I found the boardgame events which somehow attracts a lot of foreign software engineers.
DeleteMust say I'm a little envious of you all, but may I also mention that all three of you deserve better opportunities as you are always keeping a lookout, and taking active steps to make sure you are in the best position to take advantage. Not dwelling in negativity, but taking control of your lives. Wishing you all nothing but the best. Can't wait to hear more in the coming months.
ReplyDeleteHello again my friend. Thank you so much for your kind words. It's always a bit scary to take a leap into the dark with self-employment when I offer myself out there as a consultant, that's dependent on people willing to hire me as a consultant and earning my keep - so different from the luxury of having a monthly salary. But as they say in South Korea, HWAITING!
DeleteI mean, no offense, what I have done can be done by anyone else in Singapore. I can even show you the steps how but you have to step thru the door. Unlike @LIFT I am not a triple scholar or national athlete so had to fight for every opportunity up till today. I have been surpassed and outranked by scholars so frequently it is already no longer a funny joke. I'm SG everyone looks at paper qualifications and even if the scholar doesn't perform he is just reassigned to another top post. Non-scholars have no opportunity and even at our grunt positions we get performance appraisal and get moderated down by the bell curve gods.
DeleteI find it surprising that you Singaporeans make such a big deal about this whole thing about scholarships as that's not even relevant in my world these days. I was talking about this guy Peter whom I'm going to work with now I'm moving into self-employment and I described him as one of the nice guys in the business, someone you will enjoy working with because you can totally trust him. You can't place a price on that, you wanna work with people you can trust and that's the basis for any working relationship. Trust and goodwill. Peter knows how to win your trust before you agree to sign the contract to work with him - you see, I have absolutely no idea what Peter did at school, or whether he went to university or not, who cares? He's managed to prove himself in the world of business and no degree in the world can give you that credibility which he has earned, mostly through his excellent social skills.
DeleteYou are talking about Singapore where employers still request for your PSLE score and judge you for it. I had horrible scores close to 200 and almost had to enter the normal stream because of it. Do I get to re-do etc? Nope it pretty much set the trajectory for the rest of my working life.
DeleteDude, I can't even remember what I scored for my PSLE, it was good enough for me to get into Raffles but apart from that, I only remember that the first digit was a 2 and after that for the life of me, I cannot remember what the next two digits are. This is why you need to escape to the West where nobody has asked me for my paper qualifications for most of my working life - it's like, okay you claim you speak French, we'll conduct an interview for you in French and test your French. It has never been "please show us your certificates for all your French exams and the corresponding scores." I have been placed in situations before where I had to conduct interviews in Mandarin to test if the applicant can genuinely express themselves in Mandarin fluently or if they only have a basic grasp of it. I just roll my eyes when it comes to the way Singaporeans are obsessed with paper qualifications. I am negotiating all of these new contracts now with various companies as a contractor, nobody has asked to see a single piece of paper qualification from me. There's just a sense of - that's Alex, he wouldn't be where he is today if he wasn't good at what he does and that's all that matters, whether he was a scholar or a dropout is completely irrelevant at this stage of his career.
DeleteWell you say that but that is the way the SG employment industry works and I am just one person and can't change it. I still have some beef with my previous employer who is a government linked hospital. But I can't share more details now in case it goes to mediation or litigation.
DeleteWell if you know you can't change the system, the easiest solution is to leave the system and go work elsewhere the way I did - it's the path of least resistance.
DeleteWell if you noticed I have posted much this 3 year is was for a good reason. I was either too busy or tired to post. Now that I have left the clinical setting no amount of money could make me go back. And I have been following the antiwori subreddit. The western countries also pay healthcare workers peanuts compared to the amount of work they do. No way I want to go back to that shit. I have recruiters from Ireland contact me about working there. But I'm like thanks, but no thanks. Why should an immigrant do the slave labour that locals don't want to do? Ireland is not known for paying very well too. If a hedge fund from Lichenstien were to ask me to go over on an expat package, that is a whole other story.
DeleteOh well. I was just thinking about how much time and effort you had put into switching over from IT to healthcare, only to leave it now but what can you do if it is not right for you.
DeleteSuch a nice working environment: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/moh-healthcare-nurses-doctors-abuse-harassment-3321596
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