Thursday, 19 January 2023

Chua's story: why did he give up his dreams?

Hi guys. Sometimes during the discussions in the comments section of my blog, I do start telling stories that I think deserve to become a blog post and so here's one of them. In this post, I'm going to be sharing with you the story of my former classmate from VJC - let's call him Chua (not his real name) and I think his case study is quite interesting. It is all about settling and let's begin way back in the period 1993 and 1994. Chua and I used to get the same bus to school and back - one of the buses that I used was the 76 and I would often run into Chua on the bus. We were both so sleep deprived then that we often fell asleep mid-conversation and when one or both of us finally woke up, we would pick up right where we had left off. So over a period of nearly two years, we got to know each other quite well this way. One of the things I remember clearly from those conversations on the bus was Chua's many ideas for business - he would read about something being trendy in Germany, Canada or South Korea, then realized hey nobody is doing this yet in Singapore, if I could franchise it or copy the idea, then I could be the first in Singapore. Based on that, I had always thought that Chua would become a successful businessman when he got to his 40s, like he would have a chain of stores across Singapore selling the trendiest beauty products or health supplements imported from South Korea and Japan but no, that was not how things turned out at all so allow me to share his story to explain one aspect of Singaporean culture.

After Chua graduated from NUS, he started working in IT but after several years, many parts of his company's operations were outsourced to India where the work could be done a lot cheaper by highly skilled Indian experts who were paid a lot less than their counterparts in Singapore. So despite being very good at his job, the inevitable happened - Chua was made redundant. At this point, he had a redundancy package and he contemplated doing an MBA to make his switch from IT into a new path that would lead him to start his own business. Except there was a huge problem - by this point, Chua already had a girlfriend and both sets of parents had been putting a lot of pressure on them to settle down and have children as they were already in their 30s. Chua did assure them, of course that has been the plan all along but I can have a career, I can run a business and have a family too. Loads of people do that, it is not something that unusual. However, everyone in his family were against the idea: starting a business is a risky venture, you must work long hours to run your business and then you wouldn't have time to go home to your wife and literally "make babies" - why don't you choose a job that will allow you to put family life first, you can then have loads of children, knowing that you will have a regular salary and your workload will allow you to have plenty to spare time to be a good father? So they all ganged up on him - Chua's parents, Chua's girlfriend and her parents' all put a lot of pressure on him to give up his dream of running his own business and become a teacher. So what did Chua do under such circumstances? He eventually crumbled under their pressure - he entered the teaching profession, got married and is now a father of two children. He is now teaching at one of the secondary schools near where he lives. His parents, his parents in law and his wife are all happy but I know that there's a part of Chua that is thinking, "wait a minute this wasn't what I wanted, what about my dreams?" 

So Chua's story illustrates how many traditional Asian families prioritize having children ahead of any other kind of ambition or goals that one may have, such as Chua's desire to run his own business. This story raises two questions: firstly, why didn't Chua's then girlfriend (now wife) take his side and encourage him to follow his dreams? Why did she gang up against him to quash his dreams in order to get him to start a family with her? Did she not care about his happiness or feelings? And the second question is this: if that was the way she treated him, why didn't he just say, "I expect my wife to be a lot more supportive and understanding, but you're conspiring against me? I can't do this anymore, it's over." I have actually met Chua's wife once, let's just call her Mrs Chua. She seems like a nice enough person, she is younger than Chua and came across as your average Chinese-Singaporean lady. I still don't understand why she was so risk averse, why she objected to the idea of Chua started his own business as if it would be so detrimental to the possibility of her having children. Did she worry that he would be working such long hours he would neglect her and not have the desire to start a family if he was so focused on his work? She wasn't a particularly high achiever either, she had a fairly ordinary, down to earth job in administration - thus whilst she didn't have a lot of responsibilities at work, she also had a luxury of not having too much stress either. If that's what she wanted for herself, that is fine but why did she want the same for her husband? Did she worry that if she had supported Chua to pursue his dreams that somehow he would have no time left for her or that she would slip to the second most important thing in his life after his business? Perhaps I'm too cynical about her intentions, but is this a manifestation of her own insecurity: she wants to be the most important thing in his life and so if he had a very mundane job as a teacher - then she would always be the center of his attention? 

After all, Mrs Chua doesn't have much control in her work - in her office, her boss would give her work to do, she would have to take instructions and even when she wants to go on her lunch break, she can't  simply go when she is hungry or feels like it, she can only go when it is the official lunch hour and she has to be back at her desk on time. In her family life, she is constantly under pressure from her parents to have children as soon as possible - it doesn't help that she has an older sister who has already had two children and she is thus expected to follow suit. Is this a desperate attempt on her part to find one area of her life where she can actually have some control? Does she get a sense of satisfaction knowing that she has that much influence over her husband - is this some kind of sick experiment on her part just to see how much control she has over her husband, to test how far he would go to please her? She may not get to decide when she gets to go for lunch, but at least this is one area of her life she feels she is in total control of. But there's another argument that could be more plausible: she is your typical Singaporean who is programmed (or you could say brainwashed) to follow the rules and do what is expected of her, that includes getting married and having children. Thus it is entirely possible that in guiding Chua away from a more risky path, she genuinely believes that she is doing him a favour, she is helping him fulfill his responsibilities to his family and society by becoming a father first and doing whatever is necessary to create the most conducive environment to facilitate that: it is not some kind of scheme to deliberately manipulate or test her husband, but she is simply doing what she believes is the best for her husband in this case and she genuinely just wants the best for him. Thus in this case, she is a simple, brainwashed Singaporean who is so used to doing what is expected of her but there is no ill will, no malice at all that motivated her when she pressured her husband into giving up his dreams and settle for teaching. Hence she genuinely believes that she is doing the right thing for Chua 

Another big question is this: so how does Chua feel about this situation? Is he happy to become a father and a teacher? If so, then who are we to judge him for that decision - after all, aren't we all allowed to change our minds about what we want to do in life and make new plans? Well I did actually talk to him about it but I am not sure I got an honest answer out of him. After all, when I last met up with Chua, his wife was there and he was hardly going to say anything bad about her in her presence, even if it was to his old friend from VJC. I felt there was definitely an element of self-censorship during that very polite conversation in front of his wife when he was careful with his words. I remember saying, oh I'd love to have some coffee, would you join me? Chua initially said yes why not, coffee sounds great. But then his wife said no it is too late, you shouldn't drink coffee so late in the afternoon and so he then politely declined my offer for coffee. Perhaps I am reading too much into this little incident, but it does go to show that she does exert a lot of influence over his decisions. I wanted to say, if you feel like drinking then just go ahead, you don't need your wife's permission, you're not a child anymore. It's not like I am offering drugs, alcohol or cigarettes, it's just a cup of coffee. But on the other hand, Chua may enjoy the fact that he has a wife who cares about his health and well-being, so this is kind of attention is a form of affection in their relationship. On social media, I am getting a regular stream of content from the Chua household about what a happy family they are and how they enjoy quality family time together. If you simply stumbled upon that content on social media, you'll say, "yeah, they do look like a typical Singaporean family who are happy enough." The only reason why I refuse to accept this version of events is because of those many long bus rides I had shared with Chua when he had told me all about his business dreams and ambitions which have well and truly been quashed by his family. 

The thing about this story that stood out for me was the way Mrs Chua took the side of Chua's parents and her own parents - I would have expected her to stand by Chua and encourage him rather than gang up against him in this manner. What does this tell us about her relationship with Chua? I would have thought (perhaps rather naively) that part of the reason why she loved him enough to want to marry him was because of his quirky character that made him dream about starting his own business as that was what made Chua a special and unique individual. Perhaps this is something I take for granted - when I have any desire to do something no matter how crazy or unusual, I have always had the support of my partner and whilst my family never supported me, they would never go out of their way to try to stop me from doing what I wanted to do. I suppose they would just stand back and observe, knowing that if I had made up my mind, there was really nothing they could do or say to influence my decision. But that is just me - I am so headstrong but Chua isn't like that. I go back to those long conversations I had with him on the bus, he would often turn to me and say, "what do you think? Is that a good idea? Would you say that this would be a successful business model? How can I improve it?" Gosh if it had been the other way around, I would simply be telling him, "Chua, I've got this great idea and it's gonna be brilliant." I wouldn't be seeking his approval the way he tried to get mine, to confirm that he did have a workable plan. You could say that the way Chua is willing to listen to others is a very good trait if you want to set up a new business - after all, it is of course useful to seek help and feedback from others to refine and improve your business plans. But at the same time, this was the very same trait that led to Chua's family talking him out of pursuing his dreams.

But at the end of the day, am I expecting too much when I was hoping for Chua to go through with all of those plans he shared with me on the bus when we were students back in the day? Teenagers are allowed to dream, to make crazy plans about what they want to do as adults, they showed feel free to talk about those ambitions amongst friends without being judged and that was exactly what Chua did with me. I remember this conversation I had on a trip back to Singapore, I went to watch a gymnastics competition and actually managed to catch up with a lot of former gymnasts whom I had not met since the late 1990s. One of them asked me what I did for a living, when he found out that I was in finance  he was very surprised. "I had always just assumed that you would go into journalism based on what I remember of you back in the 1990s." He remembered that I really enjoyed writing, my English was very good and I had even expressed a desire to go into journalism on a few occasions. In fact, writing my blog and reaching so many readers is a way for me to express that desire to write but the one key factor that my friend wasn't aware of was that I saw the struggles of my sister when she went into journalism - it was no fun at all, she was constantly having her articles censored by her editor and in reality she had very little say when it came to what she was allowed to write. Much to her frustration, some of her articles were so heavily edited/censored by her editor that they barely resembled what she had originally written. But of course, I hadn't shared that with my friend from gymnastics, so he didn't see how I had changed my mind about journalism. By the same token, I hadn't kept in touch that closely with Chua since I moved away from Singapore and it was possible that he had encountered some evidence since that has made him change his mind about starting his own business, thus maybe it is unfair to pin the blame entirely on his wife and family for crushing his dreams. 

So there you go, that's Chua's story for you, what do you think? Am I being too harsh on Mrs Chua for pressuring him into teaching? Or was she just one factor in a complex situation? Would you gladly give up your dreams to put family first? Am I just too selfish to expect Chua to put his own happiness first?  Do you think Mrs Chua is afraid to compete with Chua's ambitious business dreams for his attention? Please leave a comment below and many thanks for reading. 

48 comments:

  1. I don't get why Mrs. Chua didn't choose to become a teacher herself if an iron rice bowl and children was what she wanted.

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    1. Well, a few reasons to the best of my understanding: she wasn't as educated as her husband, I don't think she had a degree. That partly explains why she was stuck doing a boring admin job and whilst Chua would easily apply to be a teacher with his degree (subject to him taking the relevant training), it would've been a lot harder for her as a poly diploma holder. I think it would've been possible for her to teach like pre-school or even primary school (again, disclaimer: I am unfamiliar with the Singaporean system today) but more to the point, she yearned for a traditional Chinese family. She wasn't going to be a single mother, bringing the kids up on her own: no, she wanted a husband who had a) a regular decent income and b) plenty of time to be a dad. If Chua started his own business, there would be the possibility that money would be an issue if he had a bad month. And of course, he would probably have to put in much longer working hours than a regular teacher, thus she didn't want that to happen, not in her ideal family. The question for Chua though is whether he values pursuing his dreams of starting his own business more or that of starting a family. It's a moot point - we'll never know.

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    2. No offense but Mrs. Chua sounds really selfish. She didn't have to be a single mother, just be able to contribute to the income pool of raising children. But ultimately it was up to Chua to say "I'm gonna follow my dreams, good luck finding another man with a more stable job." When people say the patriarchy hurts men too, I think this is an example. You have people judging each other on shallow things like income or looks/fertility.

      Right now I'm early in a relationship while looking for jobs, but I worry if the job I get isn't remote and I'd have to relocate. I really like boyfriend, but if I had to give up a good finance or tech job in New York, San Francisco, or even London just to stay here, then that's probably not a good decision for the rest of my life. He'd either have to move with me or we'd break up. And his job can't be done remotely unlike mine. It's like all your life you're told that you have to sacrifice everything for a partner, but what if that isn't true? What if you need to make you happy by yourself to be happy?

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    3. It isn't just the income per se (I'm struggling to get my head round being a richer = a good salary, she is setting the bar very low in this case compared to some other really rich people out there). It's time + income + lifestyle mix = good for family life. In Singapore, there is the culture of most adults working very long hours = bad for family life and parenthood. But as a teacher, your work day officially ends when the kids are done (say early or mid afternoon) then you can go home and whilst there's some marking and lessons preparations to be done at home it is viewed as a better work-life balance compared to some professions where people don't get out of the office until like 8 or 9 pm at night. Say even if she did become a primary school teacher (I agree that would have been do-able even for her with a poly diploma, there would've been a route to make that happen), her consideration was, "I don't want to be stuck at home with the baby crying at 10 pm and thinking, when the heck is my husband coming home to help me with the baby? I am stuck here all on my own with a crying baby and he is still in the freaking office, I'm so frustrated he is not here to help me change the diapers and I'm exhausted!" So many Singaporean mothers have been in that position and it is a real problem of course, thus she was careful to avoid that even if it meant manipulating Chua. So whilst the answer probably would be, simple don't have a baby then, then you can both pursue what you wanna do as adults with no pressure/consideration on that front. But within their Asian culture, they were both brainwashed into putting having babies first - which is kinda sad because she wasn't even putting her own husband's wishes first before this Asian cultural duty when it came to having babies. And you're right, you need to learn to love yourself first if you're going to be happy - rather than spend all your life trying to please others and making them like you for that.

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    4. Personally, I think it's fine to want to raise a family and make that your life purpose, just don't be self-righteous about it and assume that everyone else should want the same thing. It sounds like she was too lazy to go out and find a different boyfriend with the same life plan. I get that no relationship and no life is completely perfect, but pressuring someone isn't good. You want to feel like people who love you care about you rather than just wanting something from you. Jeezus, I had a friend in undergrad who had a terrible family life and thought having a baby by age 25 would solve all her problems, so she settled for the laziest boyfriend imaginable so she'd be engaged come graduation. When her boyfriend cheated on her in senior year, she took him back because "I think it's too late for me to find another boyfriend if I still want to have a baby by 25." Only you can make yourself happy in the end...

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    5. Well Amanda, for many Asians, raising a family is not seen as a solo mission but more like a team effort as it requires 2 people as parents to work together to build a family. As in any team situation, you need to have both parties in sync when it comes to their missions, goals and ethos in an ideal world, but in the Asian world, what usually happens is that the guy gets the say as he is the man or in this case, the woman gets the say because she defaults to what is expected of her within her culture. The obvious answer would've been for them to break off and find different partners but Chua did go along with her plan and caved into pressure, which I found unusual to say the least but having said that, perhaps Chua is more traditionally Chinese than I thought, given that he has never lived abroad the way I have and thus maybe he isn't all that brainwashed, just incredibly Asian in a very traditional way.

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    6. I think one very basic human instinct is to want to win the love, respect and admiration (well I can use a bunch of words to describe the same thing) of those around us - we wanna be liked. For Chua, he had a choice: fall into line, do what is expected of him and start a family, then his wife + both his parents and in laws will like him for that. Not that hard. Or he could pursue his dreams and start his own business - it may or may not be a success. Sure he could become Singapore's next biggest entrepreneur and be really well respected or he could fail miserably. He looked at those options on the table and chose the one that was easier and there was some reward at the end of the process - he was risk averse, he picked the path of least resistance. Kinda sad though, as the reward for the other option (if it had all worked out really well) would've been far better and he probably still would've had time to have a family.

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    7. My dad started a business when I was about 1 year old, it did pay off in the end because he became wealthy, but he was very busy until I was about 5 years old. However where I come from, even though we're Asian there's more of an entrepreneurial culture. Also my dad lived and worked as an engineer in America in his 20s and 30s (I was born when he was in his late 30s), so he wasn't very Asian at all. Would I have preferred if my dad was a regular office worker who had more time for me? Probably not, he was away sometimes but when he was around it was quality time, and we had some really epic vacations growing up. I guess that taught me not to be overly dependent on my parents for everything, including getting attention. And all my friends growing up had similar parents too. It's a different life but not necessarily worse...even though some people would say money makes people cold and miserable.

      I guess Singaporeans are just extremely risk averse considering people don't even think being a professional athlete is something worth doing. Like sure in America many Olympic athletes are poor and live off $1000/month stipends from the US sport governing organizations while they train for the Olympics, but they do it anyway because they love the sport and think they could maybe score lucrative sponsorships if they win a medal. In Singapore being poor for the sake of passion is just not considered as happiness.

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    8. Low risk = low reward, higher risk = higher reward. It does take a lot of confidence to want to pick the higher risk option for the higher reward but also, settling for the low risk option may give you peace of mind of course, but you would also have to live with the fact that your reward at the end of that path is much worse than if you had gone for the higher risk option. Is Chua happy with his choice? I think the answer would depend on his cultural perspective on risk and oddly enough, I think he's so Asian than he can honestly say that he is genuinely happy with the way things turned out (even if friends like us might judge him for it).

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    9. Would you say the lack of a safety net makes Singaporeans more risk averse? I don't think it's nearly as bad as the US, welfare here is terrible, but there are some social programs. But Sg has a small population about the size of Denmark, so even if Asian countries like China, Korea, Japan have more risk takers, it's usually down to population than differing cultures.

      Well Chua hadn't divorced so far haha. But divorce is a lot more frowned on in Asia than the west.

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    10. I don't think it's the safety net factor per se but I see a different factor at play here: you have to think about what my parents went through when they were children growing up. They tasted real poverty, my mother especially suffered so much from malnutrition to seeing her sister die at a young age from a lack of medicine to watching her own father work himself to an early grave as they were that poor. Hence there is an element of, well compared to what we went through when people were on the verge of starvation and not all your kids would survive to adulthood, a regular income as a teacher was already good enough. Thus there's a sense of "everything is relative". What are you comparing a teacher's income to? If it was my parents doing the comparing, they would compare it to starvation whereas I would compare it to what some of the people in my industry earn. Everything is relative. And no, they're not divorced, they're a happy family - at least they do appear to be.

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    11. Oh yeah it wasn't too long ago Singapore was a poor country like its South East Asian neighbors. Didn't you say that the Singaporean dream was simply "hdb + earning peanuts." I guess owning a home and affording food, clothing, healthcare, and some entertainment is preferable to being homeless, starving, and having poor health. It'll probably take at least 50 years for a generation to have parents and grandparents who grew up taking prosperity for granted, and want a higher purpose than just surviving.

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    12. Don't forget, Chua is my age (I'm gonna be 47 this year) and so his parents would be in their 70s and 80s, like my parents, they would've tasted real poverty when they were younger and hence from that perspective, it would've more a case of "haiyah, why you want to take such a big risk to start your own business from scratch when there is a perfectly good option on the table? Just take the safer option of teaching and have a perfectly normal life lah."

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    13. This is a bad pun but I do see youtube videos titled "How Singapore got Singa-rich", which go into just how poor Sg was in the 60s and 70s. They even say taht although nowadays everything's modern and clean, Sg did used to have slums only 50 years ago. I guess if in Chua's parents' time, the only jobs available were mostly poverty jobs, wanting to be a rich business owner over a middle class teacher is considered greedy. Also, this is a tangent, but what do you think of Sg's pension system compared to the UK's? For the Singaporeans in their 70s and 80s who were working class for most of their lives, is there any government welfare after retirement? Is there any welfare in the UK's system?

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    14. Aaaah, allow me to correct you. If we were to go back 50 years ago to 1973, then it would be wrong to say "the only jobs available were mostly poverty jobs." Rich people had always existed in Singapore, some of the incredibly lavish dwellings for the rich in Singapore are over 100 years old. So what has changed actually is social mobility - working class folks can now dream about studying hard, making it to university and accessing very well paid professional jobs. Back in 1973, that was considered out of rich for most ordinary folks. Many poor people stayed poor because they didn't dare to dream, they didn't dare to aspire, they believed that it was their destiny to stay poor like their parents and short of winning the lottery, if you give up trying to become rich, then you're never going to become rich. To the credit of the PAP, they did create hope in the younger generation which is a rare commodity.

      As for older Singaporeans, they are mostly dependent on their CPF but the government does offer a lot of free services for those who are really poor. Likewise in the UK, there is a rudimentary state pension for elderly folks but that's so pathetically stingy that it is not enough to even pay their utility bills. So in hardship cases, they can apply for various kinds of government help through a system called Universal Credit, but again, we have cases where old people hang out at places like supermarkets and train stations as they don't have enough money to heat their homes in winter.

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    15. Oh yeah, sorry I meant "the only jobs in their community were poverty jobs." And yes I agree with you that social mobility is a relatively new concept. Even in Europe, historically society was explicitly divided into social strata that people didn't believe could be changed except through military service. In the Roman empire you couldn't run for the senate unless you were born a Patrician, but several times generals from lowly families have revolted and taken control of the state. In Sg the PAP really does push the narrative that studying hard and making it to university is the pathway to at least being middle class. Btw, since you lived in France, would you say the nobility is still a thing even though they haven't had a king since the 1700s? I heard some titles still exist, like the queen of Denmark married a French man with some title.

      Oh so the articles on the Guardian or left-leaning newspapers about the extreme poverty caused by a rise in energy bills are true. They say even though food is cheap, the electricity bill to cook it isn't. In the US they calculate your monthly state pension based on how much you put in during your working life, which is very similar to CPF actually, except that if you're very lucky and live very long past 62, you might get more than you put in. But otherwise if you were poor and didn't contribute much, you don't get very much out when you retire, and there are some social programs people can apply for. Anyway, I asked about pensions because if the state pensions are inadequate, then Chua's parents might want him to have children so that they could look after him when he's retired. And also, in Asian society there's the fear of dying alone with no immediate family at your deathbed. In Western society there's more of a fear of living a life unlived and not following your dreams when you're younger. Do I worry of dying alone? Well yes, but I don't think having children will solve that issue. If you have such bad social skills and can't make friends, then having kids is no guarantee somebody will stick around because even they might get fed up and leave.

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    16. Yeah it was a sense of parents telling their children, "your classmates poor, your neighbours poor, your cousins poor, your friends all poor, what makes you think you will be rch? Why you think you can be different?" (to be said with a strong Chinese accent) You get the idea. As for the whole reason to have children, well - let me share with you what happened this week in Singapore. My father had a really bad bout of stomach cramps and ended up in A&E overnight, the doctors only released him at 4 am after making sure it wasn't anything more than severe indigestion/gastric pains. My two sisters waited with him at the hospital up till 4 am in the morning of course and of course I was blissfully unaware of what happened as I was in London with enough of my own stuff to deal with. I guess in Chua's case, he would need to realize that he could have a child who would take care of him if he got frail and sick in his later years - or he could end up with a child like me who would just leave and take little interest in having a relationship with my parents. Yeah I was concerned when I heard he went to the hospital but did I rush back to Singapore? Nope, not unless he was dying and he wasn't so I'm like okay glad you're fine now. And that was it.

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    17. Lol "to be said with a strong Chinese accent"! Sometimes I forget NUS/NTU weren't as world famous in the 60s and 70s as they are now. Sg has ridiculous government spending on higher education, but it's similar to the finance industry in Sg where there are a lot of imported foreigners. I guess it's a bigger leap to go from poor to rich, rather than poor to middle class to rich.

      I think you would have come back to Singapore if your parents were more loving. Like I said, dying alone isn't due to having kids/not having kids, hell even friends visit each other in the hospital. I remember I once had surgery for a health scare(everything was fine in the end), and one of my best friends living overseas was pissed I didn't tell her about it because she would've flown over had she known. I will say though, when there are limited resources in a community, people tend to see any non-family member as competition. It happens in animals too, lions and snakes kill and eat each other to reduce competition. But when there are plenty of resources, then people tend to cooperate more, like with Elephants or Orca whales where non-related individuals will baby-sit someone else' child.

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    18. Well it's the second health scare my father has had in two years and I still haven't booked my ticket back to Singapore. The fact is I simply don't feel the desperate need to see him. Today on Skype he spent ages telling me how he felt so much pain and how the doctors in the hospital treated him (erm, like he wants sympathy I suppose?) but I felt like, it's still like I am talking to a child. He watches a lot of news on TV (well he does spend most of his days watching TV now) and so he knows I work for a Peruvian company. He could tell me that there are riots on the streets of Peru, but he doesn't know how to take it beyond that to an adult conversation like, "how does this affect your business? How does this affect your colleagues?" That's why I don't have a relationship with him, we don't talk like normal adults, he is not capable of that and that's why for now, it suffices that I know his health is okay but I'm just not close enough to him to wanna bother taking time out to go to Singapore for now.

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    19. Why do your sisters put up with your parents then? At least he doesn't guilt you over not coming to see him. Love is a two way street.

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    20. Wow I'm surprised about them giving up on your nephew since they used to dote on him like crazy. Yeah, they're not capable of having adult-adult friendships.

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    21. They only doted on him as they liked the idea of having a young child giving them love without asking too many questions - that was only possible if the young child was too young to question why they are so flawed. As my nephew got old enough to realize how messed up they were as adults, then that fell apart pretty quickly when my nephew became a thoughtful teenager and transitioned into being an adult. That comes as no surprise to me, though I must express my disappointment in this situation. I say they're better off getting a dog as a pet if they're that desperate for a helpless creature dependent on them.

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    22. When you mentioned your dad would scream and shout until he was blue in the face, it made me realize you can do that to a dog and it will still love you, but that doesn't work on an adult human who can just leave. Not saying that it's okay to do that to dogs, the dog will just end up being an abused dog dependent on its master for food and water.

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    23. Oh and the irony is that my father hates my uncle. But he used it as an example of "I'm going to use this topic as a chance to exert influence over your behaviour". So my father would scream like a madman and then claim, "you're driving me to an early grave, you're trying to anger me to death." (I'm translating from Chinese here, it's a phrase like you're trying to use anger to drive me to death.) My mother is the same, if she doesn't get her way, she would threaten to kill herself. Both my parents are not intelligent or educated enough to use reason and logic to persuade others to see their POV, so instead they use death as a means of emotional blackmail. My father has had two genuine health scares where he could have died in the last 2 years (well he is in his 80s and in poor health to be totally honest) and my reaction has been, "are you dead yet? Clearly not. Good, you're still alive. That's fine then." I've refused to react on both occasions - it's almost to send out a message, "I REALLY DON'T CARE IF YOU DIE TODAY. I WON'T EVEN BOTHER TO ATTEND YOUR FUNERAL" That may seem incredibly harsh, cruel and heartless, but that's because I know how he uses his death as emotional blackmail and the only way I can retain any kind of control in this relationship is if I take away his own tool in negotiations (ie. me caring about him dying) and thus I force him to reason with me as an adult. Sounds horrible, but what can I do?

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    24. Sorry, typo: *his ONLY tool in negotiations

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    25. Dude that's really fucked up they threaten to kill themselves if you don't listen to them. But then again you're dealing with narcissists who only care about their own feelings. I get the same shit from my mom, but she is also smart enough to just straight up lie to get what she wants. That's a whole other brand of toxicity. I mean, I thought they were simpletons, but I didn't think they were this abusive. They can be abusive and simpletons though, it isn't that complicated to threaten to kill yourself, moody teenagers do it.

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    26. I think using the word narcissist to describe my parents isn't that accurate - I see them as hopelessly autistic and Asian: now that's a double whammy that creates the perfect storm. They don't need to be right to get their way, they just need to be old and often within our Asian culture, that's exactly how it works. That's why my two sisters allow them to get away with their crap all the time. A narcissist may have the social skills to develop relationships with others in a way to manipulate them (ref: Mrs Chua from this story, the way she manipulated Mr Chua) but what I see in the case of my parents is the worst case scenario when you have elderly Asian folks with no social skills. That's why I have that approach of "go ahead and die, see if I care" approach - it's what they would have done to me if I dared to throw a tantrum as a child. "Go ahead and cry, see if I care." Now the tables have turned.

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    27. Ugh yeah, Asian society does respect its elders a lot. I see that less in the west, in fact elderly people who've done nothing with their lives are very looked down upon here. Yeah I didn't like how Mrs. Chua told her husband not to drink coffee - in public. That's incredibly rude and controlling. Chua doesn't seem to be a very headstrong person though, it's easy to manipulate people like that. Anyway back to the autistic tantrum-throwers that are your parents (that's what they're doing, tantrum throwing), yeah right as if you give a shit haha. "Oh stop crying, I'll do whatever you ask..." no way Jose...

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    28. I think my father also gets away with a lot because of his health issue - it is quite normal to react with kindness and/or sympathy if you hear that this old person has had a health scare. I was talking to my sister today and she told me that my father has been busy calling up everyone he knows and giving them every single minute detail of his recent visit to the A&E department of the hospital. And I'm like, nah that just seems way too desperate for sympathy. Yes the fact remains, he was very ill, he had to be rushed to A&E, he did think he was going to die but the fact is he has recovered from that health scare and now when people talk to him, it is going to be all about his health issues. But I've seen it happen to my sister-in-law's husband, he was the one who was in a car accident and nearly died - the accident messed him up real bad and he nearly had his leg amputated, his leg is not back to normal and he walks with a limp now. He's also a real douchebag with no social skills and extremely rude - but oh everyone just focuses on the car accident and he gets a free pass on his bad social skills. That's why I go out of my way to be in the same room as him as I was one of those people who gave him a free pass based on him nearly dying in that car accident and part of me wished he died then given what a vile person he is. It sounds truly evil, but when nasty, vile people have this near-death experience, I still don't understand why people then give them a free pass on their lack of social skills and shower them with kindness based on their health situation rather than anything else (like their social skills).

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    29. My point is that my sister in law's obnoxious husband (the one who nearly died in the horrific accident) is as white as they come yet he gets away with his terrible behaviour because of our habit of showing compassion to people who have suffered medical issues (be it as a result of underlying health issues or age-related causes as in the case of my father, or in this case, an accident). So whilst my father gets away with his behaviour in Singapore, I'd just like to point out that white people can get away with the same crap in the UK and US, simply because they take advantage of our urge to express kindness to those who have serious medical issues/problems.

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    30. Oh yeah I don't think your sister in law's husband gets sympathy because he is old, but rather because he's injured. If he was as healthy as one could be, everyone would just call him an asshole. Normal people usually try to hide the fact that they've been in an accident so as not to burden other people with having to hear about terrible events. It's usually the assholes who talk about it all the time to get sympathy points. But in Asia I think it's easier to just get away with being old, even if you're healthy, because elders are more respected.

      Btw, this is off-topic, but since you work in finance, how do you deal with clients trying to negotiate a price down? I'm reading about quantitative finance right now and how to price products, but at the end of the day it probably isn't the quant explaining why the price is the way it is to potential customers, unless they specifically demand to know the details. But it's highly mathematical so even then I dunno if the average rich person or even retail investor on reddit/WallStreetBets would even care.

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    31. I think the fact that he could have been killed in that car accident has defined his relationship with almost everyone in his life given how many people got killed in that car accident. It's that "I saw so many bloody corpses right next to me when they had to cut me free from the wreckage" factor and I'm not a monster, I was kind and sympathetic when that accident happened but it got to the point where he is pushing the limits of my kindness and I've had enough. Oh he's been an asshole all his life and perhaps suffering that much pain in that car accident is karma's way of punishing him for his poor social skills. Oh you must think I'm a monster for putting it like that but let me run this by you: obviously, it's Chinese new year. And old friend in Singapore said to me, "I did something horrible, I only dare to admit it to you as you're not in Singapore so you won't judge me harshly." I thought, goodness me what did you do? So she has a relative she hates, he is an obnoxious asshole. She is still obliged to give this nasty relative's kids a red packet at Chinese new year out of tradition, so this year, she gave them EMPTY red packets with no money inside. I just laughed at the story as I thought she did something far more vindictive than that but for her, it was like the worst sin she had ever done in her life and she actually felt so guilty. Duh.

      As for your question about negotiating a price, sorry I don't understand how the question itself matches up the context - ie. you reading about quantitative finance and how to price products? Because for me, it is all about giving the impression to the other party that they are getting a good deal, so they will be glad to buy from you. So for example, if I want to sell a house and I know that I want $900,000 for it. So I put it on the market at $1 million knowing that I will not get $1 million for it. But when someone comes along and offers me $800,000 for it, I will then say, "if you'd meet me in the middle, then we have a deal at 900k." That way, I got the price I had in my head from the very beginning whilst the other party thinks that they haggled me down from 1 million to 900k and they have gotten themselves a 10% discount. Both parties walk away happy when the deal is finally done at 900k. That's the art of negotiation.

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    32. Lol at the red packets! To be fair, the kids are innocent, they shouldn't suffer for the parents' crimes. But I get why someone would hate when an asshole uses their kids as a moral shield to get sympathy while commiting horrible acts.

      I think what I meant was I know there's always mathematical reasons for the price of things, but then there's also supply and demand with regards to how many buyers want the thing you're selling. So I'm wondering how does one take into account that supply/demand in the price of products. But it could just be it can't be done mathematically and is more of an art than a science, hence the need for salespeople to negotiate well. But do the salespeople ever say to the math geek pricing a derivative "we don't have a lot of buyers this year, try to find a cheaper product that still makes us money, or could we still make enough money with a slightly lower price?" Maybe I'm overthinking, the quant should also pay attention to what competitor's products are before making theirs, even if some don't make any sense (like Doge Coin or NFTs). But I dunno if that is public knowledge. Bernie Madoff was able to get away with not investing when he should have.

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    33. I think it depends on what the context is - if you wanna price something right, like for example, if I want to launch a new gymnastics class in London and I wanna figure out how to price it right. I would begin by checking what other gymnastics classes are charging in the city and then see if I want to go in at the same price (ie. same level of service, coach-student ratio, length of lesson, quality of equipment), a lower price (but an inferior service, say limited equipment but if you're a beginner that doesn't really matter) or a high price (for a luxury high quality version of the same experience - like a 5-star hotel). It's all about figuring out what people will pay - if I price it wrong, say I create a luxury experience but I fail to take into account the supply & demand, then I have very few or no customers sign up for my luxury experience, then clearly I have not understood the market. Then there's no point in saying, "here are the reasons why I am charging this price etc etc etc" when nobody is buying it at that price. Yeah you can justify till the cows come home as to why you've create a luxury quality experience at that price but you also have zero customers. Hence pricing is all about "at what price can I maximize revenue + profit".

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    34. The thing about a tangible product or service like selling sushi or gymnastics lessons is that there is a barrier to entry in the form of a capital investment and trade secrets into how to make the best sushi or do the best gymnastics tricks. But in derivatives there is no capital investment required, it's just making a contract out of thin air. So when I'm reading about quantitative finance I struggle to understand where is the value-add, and why can't other people make the same contracts? If other people can then I don't know why people would want to buy from one person and not another. Unless this might as well be like a large casino where people aren't really selling a valuable product to each other as much as they're trying to make money by beating other gamblers. Yeah I'm having my doubts about going into a quantitative finance career even if it would pay a lot. Though I'm sure most of the financial industry isn't like this, where domain knowledge is important and people genuinely want to invest money into new technologies or companies.

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    35. Wait nevermind, I think I figured out my own question. In the books I've been reading the price of financial products is only a function of current value and the interest rate of something stable like a government bond, it is not related at all to what the actual value of the underlying stock/commodity is in the future, because nobody can predict the future with certainty. So if I think a stock is going to go up or down due to other factors, then knowing the fair price allows me to benchmark the value of a potential trade. I guess it gives a more quantitative way to measure the value of things to use as a tool for regular investing. Maybe the book I was reading was just really dry haha. They just spit out facts on what prices of various derivatives are but not about how they are used.

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    36. Hiya, it's like super late now so I'm gonna give you a really short answer for now. You are right in pointing out that there's a sliding scale from really tangible products and services like sushi or that Uber ride across town from the train station to your house to derivatives to crypto and NFTs. Let's take something less abstract like stocks and shares: the price of the Telsa stock can go up and down, depending on what crazy thing Elon Musk is up to today and what crazy thing he decides to tweet. With a lot of the trading of derivatives, well a lot of it is done with money that is leveraged - ie. it's that basic principle of if you deposit $100 in the bank, the bank doesn't just take your $100 and adds that to their balance sheet. No they leverage it many times by using it to extend credit to a lot more of their customers (revise the principles of leveraging money in banks - it's quite basic so I won't go through it here). In short, something has value if you believe it is a safe enough instrument that you can come back to it in 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years and exchange it for something else of the right value. Let's take the Mona Lisa for example, if someone wanted to sell you the painting for a good price (and let's imagine you have billions to spend Amanda), you'll gladly buy the Mona Lisa as it's such a famous painting you know you'd have no problems selling it on at a good price in the future. The same cannot be said if it's some artist you've never heard of but got some good reviews in the press. That's why you see the value of Bitcoin go up and down like mad over the years as it is completely dependent on how much confidence people have in the value of it. As for derivatives, the devil is in the detail: who is the one structuring it? Do you trust them? There's a huge difference between whether it is an asset backed instrument structured by HSBC vs something based on crypto done by a guy in the Bahamas with no big names backing the structure.

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    37. @LIFT social mobility, I would dare argue, was more achieveable back in the day. I have read of stories of uneducated people starting businesses or buying huge plots of land and who are now filthy rich so much so that their children (whom I happen to meet) didn't have to work a day in their life.

      I mean even relatively low education people with only primary education were able to work iron rice bowl jobs as teachers and be set for life as well as retirement. Such a person can only be a cleaner or security guard nowadays. Also master degree holders are a dime a dozen so that doesn't guarantee a high paying job.

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    38. I was thinking about that - for every one uneducated person who made it rich, how many uneducated people stayed poor? It's easy to use one such case study and say, "Ah Kao didn't even finish primary school, now he is a towkay who is super rich. It proves you don't need an education, so who cares if you have a degree from Oxford or Cambridge?" Yet statistically, the uneducated on average are far more likely to be low-income whilst the ones with prestigious degrees are far more likely to be in well-paid positions. I think I've discussed this in the distant past in a previous post (which I struggle to remember what it was about) but the punchline was in the past, people were a lot easier to satisfy. Like when my parents got their first little HDB flat in the 1960s, it was like paradise on earth despite the fact that they were right next to the lift and they could hear from the living room every time that lift went by. Yet they were so proud, so happy. Today if you ended up in a flat like that, we'll be like, oh dear, what went wrong? It is modern social media that has made us aspire for more wealth, more luxury, a higher standard of living - whilst that's not a bad thing in terms of motivating us to work harder, I don't think we should see the past through rose-tinted lenses. People were happier than as they simply wanted a lot less stuff.

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    39. Sorry typo: "People were happier THEN".

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  2. I can't help but notice that those that seem to have little to control over their own lives....seek to micromanage and control other people. I'm willing to bet both Chua's parents, and his gf's parents have little to no achievements of their own to boast of.

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    1. Yes you're right that Chua's parents and his wife's parents - all four of them are typical HDB dwelling working class folks from the typical Singaporean heartlands. But just because they come from such working class backgrounds doesn't mean that they ought to hold Chua back and stop him from pursuing his dreams: if anything, if you were a poor parent, would you want your child to be a) as poor as you or b) become richer than you and have a more successful future? Obviously, most rational, sensible people would choose the latter and it makes zero sense to choose the former but go figure - as you've pointed out, it does happen.

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  3. Chua's story resonated with me as I was just sharing part of my story on career transition to my new supervisor (also ethnic Indian from India). But she is a very intelligent lady as she has a PhD so is able to understand the point of my rant.

    I said that I felt disadvantaged by SG's labour policies as a male. I have 2.5 years of NS obligation followed by 10 years of ICT cycles of up to 40 days every year. And in comes a young fresh grad from another country (used to be Malaysia, then Philippines, then India, and maybe Vietnam next) that has not only more qualifications but more work experience and lesser obligations (family, NS, etc) coming in to undercut me.

    If I were a profit minded corporation of course I would hire the foreigner since, all things equal, costs plays a major role in profitability. Since I can't outcompete them I felt that I needed to get out of IT.

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    1. At least you didn't end up in teaching like Chua!!!

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    2. Funny you should say that but I did interview with MOE for some IT position late last year. But they offered such rubbish pay that I told them to shove it. I mean your parents probably could accept low pay because they had fantastic benefits and a pension. They are offering none of that now. A meagre $500 in medical claims plus 18 days if AL and normal CPF. Count me uninterested....

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    3. It's more than the benefits / pensions issue - my mother grew up so incredibly poor, she was severely malnourished, her sister died at the age of 7 because they couldn't afford medicines when she got ill and there were a few occasions when my mother was so sick she could have died before she even became a teenager. When you use that level of poverty as a baseline, you don't care about medical benefits or CPF etc - the fact that you had food on the table, a roof over your head and at least one day off a week was already heaven on earth. You and I didn't grow up hungry, we didn't see our siblings die from preventable diseases, we didn't see death from poverty as children. That's why we demand more from our futures, but given the amounts of deaths in my mother's family from poverty (my auntie wasn't the only one who died from illness, quite a few others did in the 1940s and 1950s), it coloured her judgment. It made her very satisfied with whatever she got. I think you're confusing 2 issues here: yes older civil servants had a better deal, but you're completely ignoring the way our parents' generation grew up with abject poverty. I think it would be fair to say that your own parents weren't as poor as my mother's family - they probably weren't so poor that several family members would just die as a result of the extreme poverty. It might be your grandparents' generation that last experienced that kind of poverty - or never, maybe your ancestors were just richer than mine.

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    4. Let's take my maternal grandfather for example - he was so poor that if he didn't go out to work everyday as an unskilled labourer, the family would die of hunger (well, he couldn't even keep all his children alive in any case as they were so hungry). So he worked 7 days a week until he himself got sick - but he kept on working then he died from pneumonia. When you have the flu you need to rest, but if you work 12 hours a day when you have the flu it turned into pneumonia and if you're already very thin and malnourished, you simply die a nasty, early death. That's the kind of poverty that afflicted my mother's family. I'm not taking anything away from your point, but you have to recognize that when you start from that level of poverty where family members die left, right and center from the grinding poverty, then simply 'not dying' is a luxury.

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    5. My dad grew up an orphan, was he poor? Yes, I still remember we lived in a rental apartment growing up. He also mostly ate 1 meal since that was all he could afford.

      He subsequently turned out quite ok since he is now able to own his own property and a car. He is also able to retire and not have to work security or cleaning jobs.

      Trust me the amount of people I have seen go from riches to rags after their parents passed are quite startling. Personally I know of 2.

      Mr M. grew up in a bungalow and his dad ran multiple businesses involving hardware. He owned a car during NS (which definitely makes him very well to do). Then his dad suddenly passed due to a heart attack and he had to take over all the businesses which subsequently went under. Today he lives in a 5 room HDB and no longer drives. Since he has only A levels as his highest qualification the jobs he found were mostly related to sanitation (cleaner), taxi driver and most recently freelance tour guide.

      Mr D. also grew up very rich. He did his undergrad in a US college and counted the lead singer of No Doubt as one of his classmates. He dad owned and operated a jam factory which he worked in. Then his dad passed on and I have no idea what happened to the business but he now works as a security guard.

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