Hi there, I am going to do a short piece in reply to a question I have received from a reader in Singapore. Her son (whom we shall refer to as Vincent, not his real name) has just started university in London and she has given him an allowance of £500 a month for his all daily living allowances to cover expenses like food, transport, clothing, entertainment etc but this doesn't include his rent and associated utility bills. Now Vincent claims that this isn't enough and thus he is pleading with her to increase it substantially - I have thus been asked to judge if £500 a month is a reasonable allowance for an international student to get by on in a city like London. So here's some vital background information: Vincent's parents in Singapore are not poor - after all they can afford to send their son to London for his further education, however his father doesn't want to give Vincent a bottomless pit of money to spend as a university student and wishes Vincent to learn the value of money in the process. His mother however, just wants to make sure Vincent is not going to freeze or starve to death this winter! Well, this isn't a straightforward question by any means and I can give you a really short answer: yes, £500 a month is enough. But if I left it at that, then this would be a rather short post. So allow me to cover some different angles to shed more light on this issue, to help this mother figure out what she could do next about this difficult situation.
London is a city with a lot of inequality.
Perhaps I am stating the obvious here: there are a lot of rich people in London but there are even more poor people in London. So my regular readers will know that I work in investment banking where people earn a lot of money - I remember there was a dinner where we took some clients out and the bill came up to about £1,500 for a dinner for 5 people. On the opposite end of the spectrum, recently on the 6th October 2021, the government ended the "£20 a week universal credit uplift". Allow me to explain, universal credit is a kind of welfare benefit that the very poorest in society receive from the government to help them with their daily needs. The standard allowance for a person under 25 has been cut from £79 to £59 - this 'uplift' was introduced at the start of the pandemic to help the poorest in society get through the pandemic but this has been since removed as practically all restrictions have been lifted. So the government is essentially saying to these people, "there are no more lockdowns, you can get vaccinated - what's your excuse for not getting a job now?" But let's put things in perspective: someone on universal credit is getting about £260 a month and that's nearly half of what Vincent is getting as his mother is offering him £500 a month. So yes, there are people in London trying to get by on as little as £260 in comparison and obviously the kind of life they are leading is very basic: they are forced to make difficult choices about how they spend that very limited amount of money and have to be very careful not to run out of money before the end of the month. Obviously, I don't think it would be fair to expect Vincent to live like that - that would be quite extreme. But if Vincent is claiming that he is being forced to live in abject poverty with his £500 a month, that is just not true either - it is more than the bare minimum has been determined by the government.
London: loads of places to spend money, but can you afford it all?
There is plenty of wealth in London - I left my office early this afternoon because I had a meeting at 6 pm but by 4:30 pm I was already alone in the office so I decided to go for a long walk before meeting my client. I walked through Mayfair, up Regent Street and then I crossed Oxford Street before going to meet my client. I did pop into a few shops along the way and gosh, I was killing time before my meeting but the amount of nice things I saw that I wanted to buy. There are plenty of places to spend money if I hadn't been on a rather tight schedule to see my client, I might have been tempted to buy quite a few items I saw. As a student, no doubt Vincent would have enough time to wander through the streets of London and he must have been tempted by all these shops in retail heaven. How many people in London can actually afford to buy anything and everything they see in such shops? Very few indeed, most people in London simply don't earn enough to buy all these expensive items in the shops and they have to be very careful with their money. However in Vincent's case, he's not spending his money, no he is spending his parents' money so I am suspecting he is watching all his rich classmates going shopping and spending an insane amount of money on these shopping sprees: thus he is probably thinking, hey it's not fair. Why can my classmates buy all these nice things whilst I simply can't afford to buy these lovely things with my paltry £500 a month allowance? Tell me: why don't I deserve to have nice things like my classmates? I demand to have all these things that they have as well so my parents have to give me more money to make things right.
Whose money are you spending?
Don't get me wrong, I work with people who spend an insane amount of money. On Thursday evening, my CEO went shopping and I looked at some of the things he bought and let's just say every single item he bought that afternoon easily cost more than the £500 Vincent would have received from his parents. But my CEO is spending his own hard earned cash - he just happens to be a rich man who earns a lot of money so I don't have a problem with rich people like that spending their own money. It's his money, he's earned it and he has the right to spend it whichever way he likes. In the case of Vincent however, it's a different story. He's not spending his own money but that's his parents' money he is demanding: so this raises two issues here. How rich are Vincent's parents? If they are extremely wealthy, then I don't actually have a problem with them giving him more money every month because that's not really going to affect them - they can afford it and if they want to indulge their son by offering him a more comfortable lifestyle in London, then that's fine by me. So for the record, Vincent's parents happen to be quite rich actually. In that case, I would say to Vincent, "so you want more money, you need to go get a part time job and earn that money. Don't feel like you have to beg your parents for money when you're old enough to earn your own money as an adult! You've enough time on your hands as a student to work about 10 to 20 hours a week. Not only would that give you some valuable work experience for your CV but it'll give you perspective about how hard it is to earn money - it might even change your relationship with money."
What kind of lifestyle would £500 buy Vincent in London?
There are many poor people in London, they are barely receiving the minimum wage and people would typically imagine cleaners, security guards, receptionists and catering staff when we talk about lowly paid jobs. But did you know that the poorest paid jobs in the UK also include teaching assistants working in schools, care home staff, hairdressers/barbers and shop assistants (this would include any kind of retail job from supermarkets to pharmacies to clothing stores). Let me focus on one of these jobs: the teaching assistant. Class sizes can be very big in some schools, so instead of splitting the class up into two and hiring two teachers, the shortage of qualified teachers means that the government has used the alternative solution of pairing up a fully qualified teacher with an unqualified teaching assistant. So the teaching assistant is paid a lot less than the teacher but hasn't gone through all the requisite training yet to become a teacher - in these big classes, the teaching assistant plays a vital role to make sure the weaker students get enough attention and together with the teacher, they have a great partnership. Yet teaching assistants are barely paid the minimum wage and yeah, they're typically the kind of 'poor' people who survive on £500 a month in London. They do have their three meals a day, they have a roof over their heads, they have shoes on their feet etc - they are surviving but there's just no spare cash for luxuries or treats. There are no nice holidays to exotic places, they cannot walk into a shop, see something nice and simply buy it to treat themselves. If they want to make a big purchase (like a new phone or laptop), then they have to plan and budget for it very carefully to make sure they don't run out of money for all their basic necessities before the end of the month. Needless to say, it is not pleasant but many poorer people like teaching assistants in London live like that!
This is my theory about why Vincent is finding this adjustment so tough: being a male Singaporean, he would have gone through two periods when his parents probably indulged him financially. Firstly, he must have studied very hard for his A level exams (in order to gain entry into one of the UK's top universities here in London). His parents probably gave him a huge wad of cash to reward him each time he got through a difficult exam just to encourage him to keep on studying, enabling him to walk down Orchard Road and buy anything he desired and dine at all the finest restaurants there. Then as a male Singaporean, Vincent had to serve NS (national service), that's when most parents would recognize just how tough life must be for him in NS and thus they would probably feel sorry for him having to endure all that suffering - many parents would react by giving their sons a big wad of cash to treat himself to something nice during the weekends. Therefore Vincent must have had a period of at least four if not more years of his parents giving him huge wads of cash in Singapore, allowing him to live like a very rich person in Singapore. I don't know for sure if that was exactly what Vincent had enjoyed in Singapore in the last few years, but if that was indeed the case, then it is rather obvious why adjusting to a more modest lifestyle living like a poorer, working class person would surely be a massive shock to the system for Vincent (on top of adjusting to life in another country halfway around the world, away from his parents). Thus my theory is not so much that £500 is not enough for Vincent to survive on but rather he is craving the kind of lifestyle he enjoyed back in Singapore when his parents were often giving him huge wads of money to spend on luxuries and treats.
Is it wise for Vincent's father to use this method to teach him how to manage his finances?
No, this is the equivalent of pushing Vincent into the deep end of the pool and telling him, "if you don't know how to swim, then this is a good time to figure it out or else you will drown." If it was Vincent's father's intention to make him live on a modest budget in London, then Vincent's father should have sat him down months ago and had that talk with him that would go like, "son, I know we're a rich family but I intend to give you a modest allowance for your living expenses in London. It's not much but it'll cover your basics. Feel free to seek a part time job there to top that up if you feel you need more money but I'm here to support you and teach you how to plan your budget, so you will know how to cope." It seems like even if his father did have that conversation with him, Vincent wasn't listening and all that advice had fallen on deaf ears. Vincent is struggling to survive till the end of the month without running out of money so at this stage, his parents have two choices: give in to emotional blackmail and offer him more money or try to force him to plan his budget more carefully, so he can indeed learn how to make that £500 a month last till the end of the month. Learning to plan a budget isn't rocket science really, it is one of those basic skills that poorer working class people simply have to develop out of plain necessity because they don't have anyone to turn to if they do run out of money before the end of the month, they simply must have that discipline to be very careful and keep track of what they spend their money on. Thus we need to put things in perspective: what Vincent's father is trying to achieve here isn't mission impossible, it's actually a very reasonable request, this is a reality of survival that so many poorer working class people in London have to endure daily.
A lot of that actually depends on what kind of skills Vincent actually has to enable him to find lucrative part time work, but let's look at the basics and do some calculations. The current minimum wage in the UK for a young person aged 21 to 22 is £8.36 - that's the worst case scenario for Vincent and so if he worked 20 hours a week at that minimum wage, he could make £167.20 a week and over a period of four weeks in a month, that figure becomes £668.80, which is actually more than what his parents are already giving him. Even if he worked just 10 hours a week on minimum wage, he could still make £334.40 a week, thus significantly increasing his monthly budget. However, some university students would do a variety of jobs that could potentially earn them significantly more like £20 or £30 an hour and such better paid jobs. So for example, my friend Megan gave private yoga lessons whilst my friend John taught piano lessons - neither of them have any formal teaching qualifications. Megan has a huge online following on her Instagram for her yoga-related content. Likewise, John isn't a qualified music teacher per se but he is supremely talented when it comes to the piano thus he gave the lessons to family friends and these were all private arrangements. Thus both John and Megan were earning quite a decent amount of money at like £30 an hour, so they only worked about 10 hours a week: this earned them £300 a week or £1,200 a month, so not only was this more than enough to cover their living expenses but it also gave them some valuable work experience too. Working 10 hours a week isn't going to affect Vincent's studies and I feel very strongly that the work experience will give him a much more valuable perspective, to prepare him for the working world!
Is there any point to this experiment of 'enforced poverty'? What can it achieve?
Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment: what can Vincent realistically learn from this experience if he is indeed forced to live like a poor working class person in London? Learning how to organize a budget isn't exactly the most difficult piece of administrative skill and Vincent is dealing with far more complex concepts at his university. If you simply want to send Vincent the message that being poor sucks, then again, that's hardly anything new that we don't already know, is it? I have worked with a lot of very rich and successful people over the years and they come from a range of backgrounds: some had come from poor, working class families just like me whilst others had fabulously rich parents. Quite frankly, the amount of money they were given by their parents didn't make that much of a difference - the most important factor was actually how talented and intelligent they were. What a lot of rich parents do in fact is to send their children to expensive courses to enrich their brains and nurture their various skills so as to give them a massive advantage over their peers who don't have access to such privileges. Is making Vincent live through a period of "enforced poverty" on par with such courses? Of course not, when you pay a lot of money to a professional to teach you how to do something well, you're in good hands. And if Vincent's father really wants him to learn about the value of money, the best way to do it is to place Vincent in a business environment such as working part time in a shop, so he could see personally how the business owners actually plan their business strategies and make money in the real world.
But allow me to point out a massive flaw in Vincent's father's logic: his theory is that if Vincent has to endure this period of "enforced poverty" then he will learn the true value of money. But in a city like London, there are still so many poor people either unemployed or doing very lowly paid working class jobs - they have endured years of poverty yet they are still so freaking poor. Simply suffering many years of poverty has done absolutely nothing to help lift them out of poverty - no, what they need if they want to access social mobility, then they need the right skills to access better paid work. Suffering and poverty may be a motivation for someone to want to get rich, but without the right skills to make that happen, all that motivation simply isn't enough. If there's an issue with Vincent's relationship with his father, like if his father feels taken for granted by Vincent, then the sensible thing to do would be for Vincent's father to spend more time talking with his son, rather than using money as a tool of emotion blackmail. "You ungrateful brat, you think money grows on trees? Do you have any idea how hard I worked to provide for this family? I'll teach you a lesson you'll never forget - I will make you live like a poor person, then you'll learn to be grateful for all the money I give you." No, that's an awful idea because that idea is rooted in spite, anger and bitterness. That's such a toxic formula for any kind of parenting! It does seem to me that Vincent's father's parenting skills leave much to be desired and given that he is a Singaporean Chinese father of a certain age, I can only sigh and roll my eyes. I'm not surprised at all. This "enforced poverty" just isn't the right way for him to mend his relationship with his son, Vincent is only going to be even more resentful rather than magically turn around and lavish his father with much love and respect; this will only drive father and son further and further apart.
Vincent's father needs to come up with a better solution.
Simply limiting Vincent's living expenses to £500 is a bad idea because we don't know if Vincent would make sensible choices. If he had been a sensible young man, then his parents wouldn't be doing this in the first place - but let's imagine if Vincent had £200 left in his bank account and he has two choices: he can either spend that money to attend an event in Manchester that his tutor at university suggested would be very educational or he can go partying with his friends that weekend and blow that money on a wild night out. Would 'enforced poverty' guarantee that Vincent would make the right choice in this case? Of course not. Oh please, being poor doesn't make you sensible - it requires good parenting and a lifetime of having that sensibility and maturity moulded into your personality. If Vincent's parents have failed to delivered thus far, then guess what? This 'enforced poverty' isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference and if Vincent's father thinks that this would put right all the mistakes he has made as a father for failing to raise his son with the right values, then clearly he is delusional. Loads of poor people make terrible decisions that trap them in poverty, being poor doesn't automatically make you more sensible or careful with money! If Vincent's father is sincere about being a good father who wants to offer his son guidance and teach him about managing his finances, then he needs a far more intelligent approach to this challenge. Vincent's father reminds me of those lazy, fucking awful Singaporean parents who have neglected for sons for years but they think, "it's okay, my son(s) have to do NS - the NS experience will fix everything and he'll be fine." Yeah right. Just watch my roll my eyes as I think, "so where do I even begin with how utterly fucked up you are as a parent? This is clearly not the purpose of NS and you are refusing to take responsibility for your own fuck ups."
We have clearly established one fact: this 'enforced poverty' will teach Vincent absolutely nothing, it will not achieve the goals that Vincent's father foolishly believes it will. Thus other rich parents tend to be quite generous with their children in this aspect but there's a method to their madness. If you have access to activities that cost a lot of money (such as winter sports), then you will make friends with other people who have equally privileged backgrounds. If you only have access to activities that are low-cost or free, then the kind of friends you meet there are likely to be poor, working class folks and they're far less useful to you if you're trying to build a professional network of contacts. In funding their children's expensive party lifestyle of skiing in Aspen, cruising in luxury yachts in Dubrovnik and buying too many bottles of overpriced champagne in some of London's most exclusive night clubs, they are then ensuring that their children mix in the right circles and will have friends who are equally privileged. Some might see this as a hedonistic lifestyle funded by their parents' wealth, whilst I think that there's definitely some value in networking with the right people doing such activities because you're not going to meet the next person who is going to give your dream job or invest ten million dollars in your start up by playing football in the park on a Saturday afternoon. This is why I make such an effort with my networking as I come from a poor, working class family - I didn't grow up with the right people and I'm now having to make a huge effort to compensate for that. Thus there is no point in working very hard to become rich and then not using that money to give your children all the massive advantages your wealth can buy, so this is why this situation is a mess!
Do you want to force poor Vincent to have poor friends?
Allow me to contrast this with an unpleasant incident I had at my local supermarket recently - this supermarket would do special discounts and these items would have special bar codes that the staff stick onto the product which we can then scan at the self-checkout. That evening, I had picked up an item that was on discount but when I tried to scan it, the bar code told the machine that it was for a chicken meal but I was holding a packet of fish fillets in my hands - clearly, someone had made a mistake. I asked this young black man who was the sales assistant to help me and so he reluctantly said, "just scan it, what's your problem?" I pointed out what the problem was, he looked very confused and asked me, "do you know what you're talking about?" I said to him, "can you tell the difference between chicken and fish?" When I pointed out that the discount sticker had been affixed onto the wrong product, he said, "well that's not my fault, I didn't do that." I could have done the whole thing and demanded, "I demand to speak to your manager now, you are so rude, you have such a terrible attitude!" But then I thought, at least this black guy is working in a supermarket, he's trying to hold down a job (even if he sucks at it), would you rather people like him end up unemployed, living off the state or worse, indulging in petty crime? I could have said something caustic but I decided not to. So if Vincent's father insists on forcing Vincent to undergo this period of 'enforced poverty', Vincent might be forced to take on a poorly paid part time job in a supermarket and spend a lot of time with other poor people like that black guy from the supermarket with the bad attitude. No, that's the completely wrong kind of company for someone like Vincent - that black guy would simply be a terrible influence, so this is why it is worth using your wealth funding your children to have a much better class of friends.
So what should Vincent's mother do?
Well, at least she's off to a good start by seeking third party advice. There is a famous saying in Chinese, 当局者迷, 旁观者清 - it means that those who are in the midst of a situation don't have as clear a perspective as an independent third party looking in from the outside. She is after all caught between her son and her husband! If her husband feels that Vincent is taking them for granted, then she can kick start the reconciliation process by taking more interest in what Vincent is doing at university. She can also offer more money but conditionally. "If I give you more money, you must speak to your father more often and you show genuine interest in what he is doing. Even if you don't feel like speaking to him, tough shit, treat it like a job to earn money otherwise he's going to threaten to slash your allowance again. Do you know how many times I have had to pretend to be interested when talking to my clients at work? Welcome to the adult world." Personally, I believe she should offer her son a bit more money especially if the family can afford it (remember, they're quite rich) but she shouldn't give in to any kind of emotional blackmail - she should do it on her terms, not Vincent's. It's a terribly messy situation and I wish her good luck trying to make things right. I see the root of the problem to be something that's all too familiar: poor social skills. To be a good parent, you need good social skills to communicate effectively with your children and it seems that Vincent's father is fucking retarded when it comes to social skills, even if he is evidently good at what he does to earn plenty of money. In essence, this entire episode has stemmed from Vincent's very poor relationship with his father and really - this is not about money and it shouldn't be about money at all.
So my conclusion is that Vincent's mother should offer more money but she needs to offer more than money - she needs to speak to her son a lot more and repair that relationship. Even if Vincent is a spoilt brat who takes his parents for granted, then imagining this 'enforced poverty' solution will somehow fix everything is simply delusional. This is my problem with Asian parents - they are always making the assumption that punishment is the same as rehabilitation. No, that's a dumb mistake: I'm not saying Vincent is faultless here but whether or not Vincent needs punishment (or not) is another matter, he needs someone to teach him what he ought to be doing with his money. So that's my take on the situation, what do you think? Should Vincent's mother offer him more money, how much more and on what terms? Should she force Vincent to get a part time job? Have you ever had similar issues with money with your parents before? What do you think of Vincent's father's awful attitude? Please leave a comment below, many thanks for reading.
Thanks for your comment Sandra. I do believe his mother should offer him more money for the following reasons. Firstly, she can afford it, their family is rich, it's not like he is squandering their hard earned money on a party lifestyle. Secondly, if they wanted their son to know the value of money, then that's something they should have taught him years ago in Singapore, when he was a child. Trying to do this last minute now by this 'enforced poverty' isn't going to work - you need an adult to help him figure this out, to teach him. If his parents won't teach him, then find an adult in London (like a family friend, such as me) to teach Vincent. Thirdly, whilst the intention is noble, their parenting methods are awful and will never achieve the noble intentions. Such is the problem with clueless Asian parents, such they have noble intentions about what they would like their kids to learn but the execution of their parenting techniques rarely ever achieve the results because they have such terrible parenting and social skills to begin with. Finally, I also recognize that Vincent's mother is stuck between a rock and a hard place - her (stupid, misguided, idiotic) husband insists on doing things one way whilst her son (who might be another total waste of space, spoilt brat idiot) is asking her to do things another way. She seems to be the only reasonable person here (hey she did ask for help, that's a good start, she's looking for solutions) but I just feel sorry for her.
ReplyDeleteI think another important point is what we spend the money on. Imagine you're back at university and you had £1500 to spend: option A is for you to spend that money on going to spend a week in Rome to study from the top Italian experts in your field for your university course and option B is to spend it on a Channel purse. Clearly option A is going to prove to be very useful, it is a good investment but option B is a waste of money. We shouldn't be just looking at how much money Vincent is spending per se, but rather what he is spending it on. If he can justify to his parents that he is spending his money wisely on stuff that will prove to be very useful for his studies & career development, then why not? His family is rich anyway, so why not give him the means to invest in his future? Vincent's parents be dumb not to use their wealth to invest in their child's education.
ReplyDeleteSorry typo: CHANEL purse. Damn the autocorrect!
ReplyDeleteSounds like Vincent wasn't given a good financial education by his parents. And no amount of forced poverty is going to give him that education, considering there are also poor people who are good with money when they have a little of it, but bad with money once they get a lot of it at once(e.g broke lottery winners or professional athletes). Rather than make Vincent poor, his father should be teaching him about when it is okay to spend money and even beneficial (education, housing, social networking, investments, etc.), and when spending should be kept at a minimum (luxury goods, expensive food, newest iphone, etc.). When I was growing up I had a dad who didn't buy me a lot of toys/clothes/phones/videogames, but he did invest a lot in textbooks and fast internet. His reasoning was "books are an investment, while videogames are a consumer purchase. Maximize the former, minimize the latter."
ReplyDeleteWell it sounds to me like Vincent is your typical Singaporean kid whose parents worked very long hours and he was neglected - they didn't spend enough time with him to teach him anything about managing his finances when he was living in Singapore and now they wanna punish him for it with this 'enforced poverty' experiment? Bad idea. This is just punishment without any educational element to help Vincent learn these necessary skills - there's this assumption that the punishment is enough to make him figure this all out for himself and that's wrong of course. What do you wanna do? Teach him or make him suffer?
ReplyDeleteI think Asian society is of the "filter" mindset instead of the "nurture" mindset. Because there were few educational resources in the past, the easiest way to keep society running was to make a difficult test for unprepared pupils to take, and accept only the ones who managed to pass using talent alone. The rest who "failed" were deemed undeserving and left to low skill jobs. Like for example China has a booming economy with the rise of many tech startups and very good scientific contributions by their universities. But Chinese people I meet say "we're only good because we have a large talent pool due to a large population, but otherwise our education system sucks." In more developed societies like say Denmark, the population is very small but everyone is highly educated and nurtured. Therefore Denmark has higher productivity than China and more innovations per capita because they make use of as much of their human capital as possible through good education, rather than just filtering the next genius and relying on only a few talented people to carry the economy.
ReplyDeleteSigh, I feel like Asian parenting is more focused on providing material goods than much parent to child guidance.
Well the fault of the Asian education system and Asian parenting go hand in hand, the two are both sides of the same coin. The thing is in China right now, if we somehow managed to give them a Danish-standard education system, there just aren't enough white collar jobs for all the highly qualified graduates we create in a short period of time. That's why the system in China is what it is, with only a small number of the brightest young people being able to access those great jobs. As for Denmark, good grief, everyone is so freaking highly educated but then there's the problem whereby you don't have enough jobs to make everyone's degrees. So your postman has a PhD and the lady cleaning the toilets has 2 masters degree and they demand higher pay cos hey, they spent all that time and money at university getting degrees, right? That's why everything costs so freaking expensive in that part of the world because hey, the postman has a PhD, whoopee and the guy bringing me the package I ordered off Amazon is a graduate too. This is why my friend in Finland (close enough physically, but same kind of society) complains that it is pointless for him to work in a 'white collar job' as the electrician and lorry drivers are all super highly educated and demanding similar types of pay. The grass is not greener on the other side of the fence, European societies aren't perfect. The way I see it? I can't fix all the things that are wrong in the society I live in, so I can only focus on being good at what I do because I don't wanna depend on the government - I can only depend on myself.
ReplyDeleteIronically, my Finnish friend nearly took a job in Asia because as a European expat he would be at the top of the food chain all over again where he'd like to be (he is highly educated of course). But then Covid-19 destroyed his plans so he's still stuck in Finland and good luck to him, I can appreciate his frustration. The UK is not as extreme as Finland or Denmark when it comes to educating everyone. I say the UK is great at the very top end, think Oxford & Cambridge, but that's for like the top 0.1% and as for the bottom 90%, nah the system here isn't good.
ReplyDeleteAhh I see what you mean. An educated workforce does not necessarily mean we magically double the amount of big houses, Ferraris, and Gucci bags available. Sure Denmark does see a high quality of living compared to China, with universal healthcare, good public transport, and the near eradication of starvation. But then again money is not everything. Being able to work fewer hours just to afford a place to live, food, clothing, and some money for hobbies means more leisure time. In contrast even if one does have a good white collar job in China they are expected to work 996. But yeah as someone living in America it still shocks me how almost everyone has a master's in Europe considering not every job requires that much education. Btw in the US we have a situation where American engineers are the highest paid in the entire world. Starting pay is double what is found in Europe and rich East Asian countries. Why? Because it's so expensive just to get a bachelor's degree in the US that there's less graduates to hire from compared to Europe and Asia. My dutch friends were bitching about how spoiled American engineers are, considering tech companies also have to pay exhorbitant health insurance benefits due to America's free market healthcare system.
ReplyDeleteLet's compare Denmark to Singapore - Singaporeans can afford to have a maid or two because these maids are coming from poorer countries and willing to afford very low pay. In Denmark, you cannot get maids like that (the work permit system only deals with highly skilled individuals, not lowly skilled ones like domestic helpers), so yeah you can hire a local Danish maid who has a degree but she will demand a graduate salary. That might be worth it if you're expecting the maid to take care of your kids and she would be in a much better position to help them with their homework, but otherwise, that's the key difference. When you educated the poor, there are no more poor people to exploit as cheap labour unless your government is quite happy to exploit cheap foreign labour. Singapore was built on cheap foreign labour and is addicted to it but Denmark has proven that you can build a modern, rich society without it. As for the American system, oooh boy, where do I even begin? Your education is so expensive to begin with. And Americans are quite happy to exploit cheap labour from Mexico and other places south of the border.
ReplyDeleteSorry typo: second line, willing to ACCEPT very low pay. Anyway, that's why ordinary HDB dwelling Singaporean folks have maids whilst even middle class professional rich Danish families don't have maids. But Singaporeans work crazy hours and can't go to the supermarket to get the food to make dinner whilst Danish people leave the office promptly at 5 pm or 5:30 pm sharp.
ReplyDeleteI think that's a good thing people aren't easily exploited, even if one doesn't really need a PhD to be a postman or maid. But like we've discussed before, a degree is no guarantee of creativity. It's not that we don't have enough good jobs, it's that not everyone is good enough at these good jobs. I mean in science anyone who can cure cancer will always find a job, and there are so many different types of cancers which all respond to different treatments that there are plenty of niches. However, as is obvious, not every biology graduate is capable of inventing new cancer drugs, but they still demand a job which can make use of some of their knowledge that isn't as difficult and requires less innovation. However I don't think it's the degrees per se that make the postman or maid in Denmark not poor, because there are plenty of poor graduates in America who have to become Uber drivers if they can't get a graduate job. I think it's because Danish society votes to have a good welfare state and minimum wage. If people have the option not to work if the only jobs available pay badly, then wages will go up. Sweden doesnt even have a minimum wage, but their welfare is very generous. This has started to happen in America during the pandemic where the government increased welfare payments to above the minimum wage of really crappy jobs like restaurant or retail worker. As a result McDonalds is offering college tuition benefits and higher wages to lure workers back.
ReplyDeleteBut then if I may point out please Amanda, not all degrees are equal. That's why we have league tables for universities, in the UK we have 131 universities and of course, at 1 and 2 in that table are Oxford and Cambridge. The graduate with a masters degree that ends up being an Uber driver is hardly going to be an Oxford graduate, no s/he is going to be one of the universities at the bottom of the league table of course. This makes me think that these people are conned into paying so much for a degree, spending all that time doing it and then realizing that it is pretty useless to them in the working world. Hence your postman in Denmark who has a PhD, I wouldn't assume that it was a PhD that was of that much purpose. If we're in a society where everyone has a PhD, then employers will find a way to distinguish between different applicants and still find a way to hire/promote the right people to the top.
ReplyDeleteInteresting thing happened today: office politics. We're doing an event for a Chinese client and the Chinese client asked for things to be done a certain way, it was completely the opposite of what my boss wanted. So my colleague in marketing decided to listen to the Chinese client and he got an earful from my boss. So I decided to be practical: the Chinese client isn't paying my salary, my boss is - so I did things according to my boss' wishes and got praised for it. Dave carefully steered clear of all that and then at the very end, said to me, "good job Alex, can I have a look at what you've done, maybe I can make some suggestions or changes?" He steered well clear of the disagreements until it was safe to jump in.
Oh yeah, a degree merely provides the illusion one is deserving, but not all degrees are equal. I forgot to mention that even if someone was a genius who had the cure for one of the cancers, they'd still need access to capital to buy equipment, materials, logistics, etc. And that capital is finite, so even if the whole planet were composed of genius cancer biologists not all of them can be given the opportunity to test their ideas due to limited capital, only the best.
ReplyDeleteAh the classic serve the client or serve your boss dilemma. I've run into that before when we had corporate sponsors for our research. On the one hand you can't piss off the client else the company has no revenue, but you can't piss off your boss too much or you won't have a job. Dave did the smart thing by avoiding that situation if he could. Jeez with social skills like that he doesn't need university. Dave is what most people would call "street smart." I bet he could be a spy like James Bond and fit in just fine. I wish I had a friend like Dave. Oh wait I already do... but they like me enough they let me get away with my bad social skills unless I explicitly ask them for social advice.
Well employers are not dumb, are they? Depending on your typing and internet speed, it takes between 5 to 10 seconds to open a new browser and find the latest league tables for universities, which will give you a really good idea of the value of the degree. Like I said, it's not rocket science. The top universities tend to get the most funding & investment, whilst those at the bottom of the league tables - it's a totally different story!
ReplyDeleteAs for office politics, yup, it's all social skills. I am kinda glad I can start with a blank slate in this new company. No company is without its office politics but at least I am being very careful to keep my cards very close to my chest, ie. if there's someone I don't like or get along with, I keep my mouth shut and abide by the principle: keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I have one colleague who did something to offend me but I will not even let that colleague know that I took offence as I don't see the point in getting into a fight with that person - rather, I'll keep that person really close. In the meantime, I'm learning from Dave, the king of social skills.
I'd like to think my social skills are quite good but Dave seriously takes it to the next level and I'm humble enough to wanna learn from him. The learning never ends.
ReplyDeleteYeah it didn't take me long to google UCL when I first started reading your blog, even if I don't live in the UK I can see its a pretty good school. Frankly though... I've never understood why people care so much about a degree. Then I realized its not so much what the degree can provide, but more that finishing a degree is a huge challenge for a lot of people that they think "I've struggled so hard for this, it must be worth something". Sunk cost fallacy yet again. Recently I have this stupid homework to complete for a class I need to pass to finish my PhD(on top of research), but the homework is literally manual labor (connect tiny wires to tiny metal squares using tweezers and a microscope). Do I think this makes my PhD more valuable just because my hands are sore? Hell no! But some people are actually pausing their research to take this project so seriously just because they want an A on their report card. Ridiculous...
ReplyDeleteEvery company has office politics. I only learned late in life that you always need to be on good terms with everyone, boss, coworkers, clients, even the janitors and admin staff. Lol you avoiding a fight with your colleague reminds me of this social event I went to recently where we had to paint pumpkins. I mentioned my research to a girl who happened to be a chemist, and she highly disagreed because my research was undermining some of her work. I immediately changed the subject and tried to agree with her as much as possible. No benefit to starting a fight, regardless of who's right. Btw its ludicrous that you work with such a young person in Dave, but success doesn't care about age.
Aaargh, just did exactly what my colleague did yesterday. I argued with my boss over an issue which I felt I'm right he's wrong but he's the boss so he makes the decision. For this event for Chinese clients, there is a formal presentation and then informal networking. I'm doing the Mandarin presentation but there's only one of me in a large room with loads of guests around who speak mainly Mandarin, not English. I asked to hire an interpreter to accompany Dave so he can work his magic in the room and overcome the language barrier - that was denied. I don't get it. We're spending so much money on the event and yet this final expense for Dave has been denied? So I said fine, you don't wanna spend money, I can get some university students to do it for free for work experience and the boss said, this is technical stuff the university students cannot translate without understanding the product. So I'm like, great, so is Dave just going to sit in the corner twiddling his thumbs, looking at Instagram on his phone whilst you have all these clients in front of us waiting to be pitched? A clear case of I'm right, the boss is wrong, but once again, his decision stands and I was overruled. There's office politics and then there's common sense - I feel frustrated cos I'm just trying to help Dave for what he does best and that's for the good of the company!
ReplyDeleteAaaah Dave is so good at this: he wrote in an email that he thinks the client ought to cover the cost of the translators if we needed one and if they won't, then he would gladly pay for one personally. Note how he avoided disagreeing with my boss whilst agreeing with me (that he needed a translator for the event). So he has managed to navigate his way through this whilst avoiding any conflict with my boss and myself, whereas I did argue with my boss over the translator thing. Cos I was like, it's gonna be a room full of people, how the hell am I going to do all the translations for everyone if there are so many English speakers trying to speak to Chinese speakers at the same time? I can only translate one conversation at a time, I can't facilitate the communication in ten separate conversations simultaneously?! Whilst I'm right, I also need to learn from Dave in terms of the way he navigates this kind of conflict. Sometimes I do get on my high horse, like "I'm the only one who speaks all the languages, I'm currently translating our Spanish marketing documents on top of all the work I'm doing for the Chinese clients, you British people wanna do business with the world yet you expect everyone to speak English - you have some nerve!" Okay, it's good to work with Dave.
ReplyDeleteIt is true that you shouldn't leave your best asset idle just because of something as simple as a language barrier which can easily be taken care of. But people sometimes won't budge for any reason, and instead of trying to convince them they are wrong, make the choice sound easy for them like Dave did. That was a true masterstroke on his part, making it look like the client's decision and not your boss', and pitching in with his own pocket money. I can see why you like working with Dave, he makes everyone's life easier.
ReplyDeleteWell Amanda, you're not gonna believe what happened in this episode. Holy shit.
ReplyDeleteSo at about 5 pm, I was in the office messaging Dave when he called me and said, "look, I do want a translator, could you recommend a good one and I'll pay for him or her out of my own pocket? I agree with you, it's a small expense but it will be worth it." I said sure I'll arrange that for you, but as I was in the office - one of the other directors overheard me and warned me, no don't do it. Both you and Dave would get into trouble, not because it is a bad idea but because you were told by my boss not to get a translator. And get this: my CFO was there and he was like, "give me a good reason why we shouldn't have a translator at the event." And I was like, well you tell me, I think the worst case scenario is that the translator doesn't do a good job but isn't NOT having a translator far worse?
The way I see it, my boss is flexing his muscles and turning this into a "lun bu dao ni shuo hua" (it's not your turn to speak) moment. It's that Chinese phrase I use a lot to describe working class jobs where you just shut up and do as you're told - except of course, I wasn't expecting it. If it was dealing with an area where I have no experience or knowledge, then I'll just shut up and do as I'm told. But this is about doing business with Chinese people who don't speak English! Does anyone else in the company speak Mandarin? Am I the only Chinese person in the company? Does anyone else in the company has as much experience as me dealing with Chinese people? Does anyone else in the company know as much about Chinese culture? Like isn't this exactly why you hired me - because you want my knowledge in this area to help you do more business? So I didn't think this was a 'lun bu dao ni kai kou' moment, but it was. My boss put his foot down the moment my other director told him that Dave wanted to pay for his own interpreter and that was the end of it. Dave messaged me but I didn't respond, I was so freaking sick and tired of the whole dumb episode. I wish I never made that suggestion.
I went to Chinatown to get some Chinese food for dinner and as I was there, in the Chinese supermarket contemplating what kind of tofu and noodles to buy, I thought, why am I trying to freaking hard? This company is Dave's client not mine. If the clients invest millions or billions, all Dave is gonna do is say, "I am so grateful thank you so much" but he isn't going to share his commissions with me. And if he doesn't make the sales because of the language barrier (imagine if I got Covid and couldn't make the event), then that's his loss - it's not my problem. I'm trying so hard to help him out of a sense of loyalty to my employers, but now my attitude has changed. I'm like, "whether the event is a success or not, I really don't care. I'm not paid enough to care. There is zero incentive built into the system for me to be rewarded if the event is successful, even if the outcome of the event could well depend on me because I'm the only Mandarin-speaker in the company."
ReplyDeleteAnyway Dave backed down on the translator thing as my boss was insistent that we are not to disobey his orders. So I'm like okay, do whatever you like, I really don't care what happens at that event anymore. I used to care before this afternoon but because you decided to do things like that, I really can't be bothered anymore.
The funny thing was this evening, I spoke to one of the guys who offered me a job back in the summer when I was looking for a job and I turned him down to accept this current position. It left me feeling better as I know that okay, that door is always open as this other guy can't wait to hire me - he knows exactly what I am capable of and won't overrule me on stupid things like that. Anyway, I really don't care anymore - this is Dave's problem, not mine. He can learn Mandarin if he wants to communicate with his clients!
I have one colleague in the company who has a bad attitude, she is accused of doing the bare minimum (and sometimes even less than that) and she left the office at like 4 pm today. But now, I am beginning to see why she has developed that kind of attitude. I was going above and beyond what was expected of me with no financial reward - I did it out of a sense of loyalty to the company and because I wanted to help Dave (I do like working with that guy after all), but if I am going to be overruled on stupid things like that, then it sets the mood of "why bother trying if I am not rewarded for thinking outside the box to try to find solutions? I may as well just await my next set of instructions, just do as I'm told and no more, in fact just do the bare minimum."
ReplyDeleteOh wow this translator thing has turned into quite a debacle. But a job is a job. As much as most people want to work in a place where they have a sense of purpose and duty to some higher cause to do their best, at the end of the day unless you are self-employed you do not have complete creative control. Someone else always has the final say. But that's not to say there won't be opportunities where you going above and beyond will be appreciated and even rewarded with better pay, just that it's not a 100% guarantee that will be all the time.
ReplyDeleteAnyway I hope you can take comfort in the fact you don't have to do anything, and nobody will punish you for doing nothing. You can go home and eat good Chinese food or watch a new Netflix show, and everything will be fine. But of course it's great to have other doors open in case these "it's not your turn to speak" happen too often.
Btw I just signed up for gymnastics class, gonna start Monday. It surprised me how affordable it was, only $75 usd/month for adult classes once a week. I was expecting at least $200/month considering all the equipment involved. I hope I don't fall flat on my face, probably gonna ask you for advice if I run into trouble haha. Oh and I found out the parkour class is only for kids (age 7 and up), they just rebranded it as ninja parkour to get them interested. The adults are directed to the normal gymnastics classes.
ReplyDeleteWell Amanda, this translator thing is resolved - I managed to persuade the client's company to bring two more bilingual members of staff (as opposed to Dave paying for an external translator to come in for a few hours and paying for that), so effectively the client company (who are Dave's client) have stepped in and solved the problem for him. On one hand, yes they like him and are happy to help him but on the other hand, I arranged all of it so it's me and my social skills as well. But it got to the point yesterday when I was like, yeah whatever, I'm not motivated to solve my colleagues' problems anymore if my boss is going to turn this into a 'it's not your turn to speak' situation. Like I said, the worst case scenario is we hire an interpreter who doesn't do a good job - but surely that's better than having no interpreter at all?! Here's the irritating thing if I may be honest - given that this event is for our Chinese clients, my boss has tasked me with organizing everything which is fine, that's my job. But either empower me to make decisions if you're going to have me handle the project, or you do it yourself and give me instructions about how you would like me to do - he flip-flopped between the two. He told me to manage this project, then he overrules me on a seemingly minor detail and I'm like, WTF? Do you wanna manage this project yourself? No, because you don't have the time to deal with the amount of work that comes with the project, but you don't wanna empower me to make minor decisions? You can't have it both ways - it is one or the other.
ReplyDeleteGymnastics can be cheap because once you invest in the equipment, it can probably be used for 10, 20 years before it needs to be replaced. The main costs are then the coaches and the other staff that keep the venue open - the aim is then to get as many classes as possible with as many students as possible to maximize revenue in order to recoup the sunk cost of the hardware. Remember, it's not Squid Game, nobody is going to shoot you in the head if you fall on your face. You're a paying customer, so demand customer satisfaction from your coach but at the same time, establish a good social relationship with your coach so not only do you hold them to account as a customer, but you get them to like you. The more they like you, the more they will wanna help you.
I'd compare it to going to a restaurant - you're a paying customer so you do certainly have the right to demand a certain level of service. If they let you down, ie. keep you waiting a stupidly long time for your food, then you have every right to complain of course, you should never suffer in silence. But at the same time, it would be foolish to be rude to the waiter serving you - you are far more likely to have a pleasant experience at the restaurant if you treat the waiter with friendliness and respect, rather than yell at them as if they're your servants. Oh I am always appalled at how rude Singaporeans can be in restaurants when it comes to dealing with the staff there and I'm surprised the waiters don't always take revenge by adding crap to their food - you get the idea. Be nice to the coaches and befriend them but at the back of your head, never forget that you're a paying customer and you are hence entitled to a certain level of service!
ReplyDeleteGlad that was resolved. I forgot that you were asked to plan the event and if it went poorly they would blame you even though you don't benefit that much compared to Dave, since it's his clients. But like you said in prior posts, there is no qualification to be a boss, so not everyone's good at it.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah I forget that aside from the facilities rental cost there isn't much marginal cost to teaching gymnastics aside from the coaches, which aren't paid very much. People think fencing and tennis are "bougie" sports, but they also don't have much marginal costs and cost about the same as gymnastics. I'm glad that there are other people in the classes though, aside from learning how to do backflips I'd also like to make friends with people my age outside of school/work. I've always had a good/friendly experience with fencing coaches in Sg, except the time one coach scolded me in a very Singaporean way for not practicing enough as if I was a school-aged kid who didn't practice for piano lessons. But yeah looking forward to it. I just hope I'm not too physically weak to start, I've only started going to the gym a month ago.
Well, like I said, either empower me, put me in charge and let me run the event the way I want to or decide that the event is so important that the boss needs to take charge of it all, give me a set of instructions to follow ("Alex I need you to do the following things for the event by this Friday.") and I'd gladly just follow the instructions I've been given. But don't put me in charge then undermine me by challenging even a small decision like that, that's what pissed me off about the situation. I thought I was in charge but in being undermined over something this minor, it sends a message: "I don't trust you to handle this." And thus it leaves me feeling dejected, unmotivated, like "whatever, see if I care. Scold me, sack me, do your worst: I have no incentive to help Dave make more money anyway."
ReplyDeleteAs for the coach who scolded you, well that idiot has poor social skills. That's when you have to remember that you're a paying customer and make a formal complaint about it!
Wow that sounds like a very harrowing experience. Maybe your boss just had something shitty happen in his personal life that day and needed everything to go his way. It doesn't seem fair though how you were treated though. Let's see how he acts after this debacle. Maybe he'll try to spoil you in a subtle attempt to say sorry.
ReplyDeleteSo I wasn't the only one who got scolded, but the other fencing student being Singaporean just gave in and said "sorry coach, very sorry." But since I grew up in the west I think we're equals and its nothing personal if I do badly.
Thanks Amanda, I like coming to you about things like that because you're a kind friend who never judges me and you always know what to say. I shouldn't let this thing blow out of proportion. I'm just going to go back to work next week and pretend it never happened. The only interesting thing I observed is that golden boy Dave is also scared of going against my boss Dave on any issue, I thought he was the one who could do no wrong and could always get his way, but this proved that this was not the case at all actually. Thanks Amanda!
ReplyDeleteAs for the coaches, I think it depends on the age of the students but also the social skills of the coaches as well. I've met loads of coaches with poor social skills.
ReplyDeleteYeah it looked like you really liked your job when you started, and then this happened. So I hope things go back to normal. That surprises me about Dave too considering he has already made so much money he's probably set for life. But well, he's probably used to his lifestyle and doesn't want to fuck up his career so young.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I think I'm too harsh about social skills expecting everyone to have great ones. I got angry at my "Cary" yesterday when he was complaining about overconfident people, considering he is so overconfident himself. But most people doing a PhD think they are God's gift to humanity just for getting good grades, even if they can't build anything that actually works. I also hate cowards who are only overconfident around their just as clueless peers, and are too scared to be confident around the older more successful people in the field.
Btw, can I ask you about finance advice since you work with traders and financial planners a lot? I've recently started investing my savings because I only heard about the magic of ETFs now. How would you recommend a middle-class person manage their money? I'm not a high net worth individual who has millions to invest, but I'd like to make my money passively work for me if only to fight inflation or save for retirement.
Hi Amanda, I think I would be naive to think that it would all be conflict-free and smooth-sailing all the way, such conflicts are to be expected and of course they are unpleasant to have to deal with but they are nonetheless inevitable. The thing is Dave (like me) is a salesman and I think every salesman wants to have a good product to sell, if you have a desirable product, then people are lining up and screaming, "take my money already Dave!" So he is sensing that I was walking on thin ice by being insistent on the issue of hiring translators and him taking my side was seen as an unwise move in the context of office politics (even if it made complete sense once you remove the stupid office politics involved). That's why he second guessed himself on his initial decision to want a translator.
ReplyDeleteAs for financial advice, given you're still a PhD student, I think you need to find the most tax-efficient manner to maximize your investments because you don't wanna make money on investments only for it to be subject to income tax because it is a form of income. There will be various schemes that are tax-efficient for you to take advantage of but as I am not in America, I can only ask you to speak to someone locally who understands the American system and identify the right pathways for you to take advantage of which are most tax efficient.
Handling conflict is so not instinctual for most people. There's a reason why it's called the fight or flight response. Flight is so much easier. Oh well, hope it's resolved and people can move on.
ReplyDeleteI have recently opened a retirement account called a Roth IRA that allows me to contribute after-tax dollars, of which the capital gains in the account from stock appreciation or dividends is tax free, but only if I don't withdraw any money before retirement age. However I can withdraw the principal tax free if I need to buy a house, but not any gains. Yeah I should see an American financial advisor who caters to middle class clients.
Wow I just realized the UK tax situation is even worse than the American one for high earners. I can see why people in finance will spend so much time to find tax loopholes for their high net worth clients.
Sigh, I'm ready to eat humble pie and move on. I don't have a problem with taking instructions and doing as I am told, I just thought that my boss could have used better social skills to have resolved the situation but regardless, I guess when you're the boss you have less need for good social skills. I said this to a friend yesterday: I am so conscious about the way I speak and the way I present myself as I'm someone desperate for social mobility but for the people who are already very rich, they can do what the hell they want and not try to please people the way I feel I have to. Therein lies the difference.
ReplyDeleteThe UK tax situation is complex but there are plenty of tax-efficient loopholes that are unique to the British system. I am only familiar with my local British tax system so that's why I asked you to seek advice from someone who knows the American system inside out to guide you through it. The way I see it, you wanna become rich? Earn more money. That's the bottom line. Sure you ought to manage your investments wisely but the key thing is to simply earn more money in the first instance!
Would you say you feel secure in your social status now though? So much that you can slack a little with the social skills? Or are you just a perfectionist in general who always wants to "win" as best as possible?
ReplyDeleteYeah I'm not gonna get rich investing a middle class salary alone, unless I somehow get lucky and pick some stock that blows up, but I'm not a gambler. Oh well, I'll have to see how far my career in tech will take me.
Oh that's a really good question Amanda. I think it depends on the company I am with - when I am with people I know, I like, I trust, I feel comfortable with, then I will be more relaxed with my social skills. But then again, let's take my friend Vicky from gymnastics, I like her, she's a joy to train with. Because of that, I want Vicky to like me so I do always try my best with my social skills when I am with her. But then there's that guy in my gym I had referred to the past as Mr Cross, I had one weird conversation with him once and decidedly, okay we're never going to be friends and so I can't be bothered to be nice to him or try to establish rapport - none of that. So someone like Mr Cross wouldn't get to experience my good social skills.
ReplyDeleteYeah in personal life one has more freedom to choose who to be nice to, and who isn't worth the effort. I suppose if I like someone I will put more effort to talk to them too compared with someone I don't find interesting.
ReplyDeleteI spoke to my boss a few times today and there was absolutely no mention about the whole incident about the translator thing from last week cos we now have something else to argue about. Groan. I don't even feel like talking about it, it's just people being nasty when they can be nice. Imagine if I wanted to tell you how I felt about something, I would say, "Amanda, you know how much I respect your opinion and I am so happy to be working with you, but in this instance, I think it would be better to do things a slightly different way and I have my good reasons to make that decision, but I want to assure you that things are going to work out and we're all part of the same team." Yeah, it costs nothing for me to speak to you nicely like that. But it's when people feel they have to resort to using harsh language to get what they want, at which point I just think, you have poor social skills and that's a bad reflection on you. Oh I'm not talking about my boss actually now, it's a client who could've been nice but felt he had to be nasty in order to get what he wanted - like you said Amanda, I've grown tired of people with poor social skills. Like for crying out aloud, I'm supposed to be the one who is autistic here y'know?!
ReplyDeleteYeah exactly it costs almost nothing to be nice, and has a lot of benefits. However, it does take some minuscule effort, and humans are lazy so there you go. Also sometimes I feel that being autistic means that once we develop a habit it is really hard to shake, including social skills even if it's not innate. Its the obsessive part of autism.
ReplyDeleteBtw I just finished my first gymnastics session. I'm surprised half the class is "open gym" and people ask the coaches for individual exercises they want to work on. Also everyone was really friendly and offered to give me tips. They said I'd fall, a lot... And I did trying to do handstands haha. I have no idea how y'all just do successive flips in a row or walk on handstands like it's nothing. But I hope to get there one day! Also I realized some gymnastics is branded as parkour just because gymnastics is seemingly mostly female, there were only 30% guys in my adult class of 12 people.
Oh that's why there's so much value in having good social skills - it's like the lowest hanging fruit we can pick in terms of our career development. Shall I learn how to speak Russian? Shall I learn C++ or shall I just be nice to people? Well guess which one is the easiest of the three listed above then?
ReplyDeleteCongrats on your first gymnastics session - yeah open gym is a concept that is for people who have learnt enough to wanna try stuff out of their own, whilst still having a coach to run to and call upon for help if necessary. I'm very pleased to hear that it is a friendly environment and you will keep going back as it is a social thing as well. It's not easy, none of that is easy of course otherwise everyone would be doing it - but with difficult challenges come a great sense of reward once you master something that is truly impressive after a lot of hard work. Check out the hashtag #adultgymnastics and see others like me still training into our 30s, 40s and even 50s!
Come to think of it learning to be nice is surprisingly simple. I guess if I ever struggle with social skills I just have to think "what would be the nice thing to do?"
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of age, one girl was talking about how she thought she'd be the oldest at 33, but there's another guy that's 37. I'm surprised because when I used to do fencing we had people in their 40s/50s come in. Sport is really for all ages. And omg after my back hurts so much today I'm surprised how strong you are in your 40s to be able to do those stunts on Instagram.
Oh yeah the gymnastics place is definitely social. That first lesson of mine happened to be the final session of a guy moving to Japan, and everyone was invited to his farewell at a bar. I didn't go cuz I just met them and have school early tomorrow, but otherwise yeah I'm looking forward to coming back every week and talking to people. For me it's as much practicing social skills as it is physical fitness. Compared to Asians, Americans are more expressive and that's their body language cue that they use to indicate interest and warmth. What are British people like? I dunno if the stereotype is true, but usually the British are assumed to be colder than Americans.
Amanda, you display such emotional maturity in the comments you write here, you strike me as one of the wisest, nicest person I have the honour of getting to know through my blogging and the weird thing is, we're both autistic. Go figure. Normal people have much worse social skills than us. I guess it's like the blind skier analogy I've used many times to describe this weird situation - blind skiing is a sport in the Winter Paralympics where blind skiers fly down the side of the mountain whilst seeing practically nothing. They ski much better than people like you and I because they have learnt to overcome their disability and adapt to the needs of skiing in spite of the loss of their vision. That's what we've both done, we've overcome our autism and achieved a lot rather than surrender to it.
ReplyDeleteKeep at the gymnastics and I hope you'll post some fun videos on your Instagram soon!
As for the British, oh it's not wise to put all British people into a box, as if they're a monolithic entity. They come in all shapes and sizes and when it comes to being expressive vs being reserved, you have to judge each individual you meet rather than make any assumptions based on their nationality or culture.
I've just published yet another piece on Covid today, I can imagine my Singaporean readers will be particularly interested in this one as it is about the recent surge in cases in Singapore - the Delta variant has finally arrived in Singapore.
Why thank you, I've worked very hard on my skills. I also think being autistic means you are just more obsessive about little details in general. The blind skier probably has a mental checklist they run through whenever they ski in order to gain as much information as possible that sighted people take for granted. Likewise, I do the same when talking to people, even now I'm fidgeting over someone who helped me with cartwheels yesterday mentioning they went to graduate school 10 years ago and me forgetting to ask what major they went for. I hope they don't take that as me being "cold" or uncaring, I really just forgot because its hard for me to focus on gymnastics instructions and socialize at the same time.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I need to figure out how to take videos of myself doing things. Maybe when I get to know people they won't mind taking videos for me, when I can do things haha.
Oh yeah, I've seen youtube videos of people from Newcastle or smaller cities being very friendly to strangers on the train or at the doctor's office. I guess it is a myth British people are "cold", just like any other stereotype.
Whoah its that bad in Sg? Though to be fair their number of deaths are low. Y'know I don't think this is the PAP caring more about each death, I think they are using and exaggerating each death to promote authoritarianism and state control. According to my friend in New Zealand the government also likes to freak out if there is even 1 case in the community. But they quickly revert to normal once the cases have disappeared, also they live in a democracy.
Oh we love taking videos in gymnastics class - you can either just prop your phone up and film yourself or feel free to ask for help. I usually use it as an excuse to be friendly like, "hey Amanda, that looked awesome, would you like me to film it for you so you can see yourself doing it?" Then now I've done you a favour, you can return it and film me as well. You get the idea.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a big city vs small town/village thing. I remember being in a tiny village in France and people just coming up to talk to you when I was in the cafe because they were wondering why we were visiting their little village - they were bored and curious but friendly at the same time. But in a big city, people are busy and you tend to mind your own business. As for the whole Covid episode in Singapore, let's continue that discussion on that post, thank you.