Angie Tan U really think Singapore is abnormal? I beg to differ. Developed countries treat everyone equally be it you r foreigner or not. Think twice before idolizing those countries. First of all, if one is so used to being served here, with maid washing your cars, your dishes, cook and clean, please forget about these luxuries when one is abroad because u will be paying them an executive/graduates salary. Many whom I know, eventually has to quit their job to be home makers because it's cheaper n more viable to do so. Somethings gotta give.
And again if they are treating everyone equally, how n what makes u think none of their own people will tend to be marginalized? There are still unemployement there. Haven't you read France unemployment surged to the highest lately in 14 years? Check out London's unemployement please. So while a Singaporean is being employed and having 2 houses in London, there are still local Londoners living under the bridge.
And again if they are treating everyone equally, how n what makes u think none of their own people will tend to be marginalized? There are still unemployement there. Haven't you read France unemployment surged to the highest lately in 14 years? Check out London's unemployement please. So while a Singaporean is being employed and having 2 houses in London, there are still local Londoners living under the bridge.
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| Is it hard to find a job in the West? |
It really depends on what you're paying them to do. If you are merely paying them to clean/cook, then they get paid less - but many double up as child-minders and will take on tasks like picking up the children after school and supervising their homework etc, then they are paid more. Such child minders are vital for families with two working parents who spend long hours in the office and many parents are happy to pay big bucks for a quality child minder who is really good with their children - this is determined by market forces. These maids/child minders treat their job as a career and enjoy a higher status than your average Filipino domestic helper in Singapore. My sister has a brilliant Indonesian maid who is so intelligent and does all that - including helping my nephew with his homework, but she isn't paid any more than an Indonesian maid who only cooks and cleans - is that fair? I don't think so. What is wrong with treating your maids with a bit more respect and dignity? I find it distasteful the way Singaporeans have this assumption of superiority over foreign domestic workers - now that's just plain wrong.
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| I have never had a maid - just a cleaner. |
As for 'treating everyone equally' and making sure that their own people will not be marginalized, get real Angie. Even if you're dealing with the local indigenous population in the UK, you will get a wide range of talents and abilities - from those who are as brilliant as Alan Sugar, Richard Branson and Tim Berners-Lee to those who are totally bueh tak chek and hopeless, as epitomized by the comedy character Vicki Pollard (and there's everything in between). Such is the nature of human society, if I may refer you to the famous IQ distribution bell curve below - it is a simple way to demonstrate to you that in any society, some people are smart, some people are stupid and most people are average. This applies in any country in the world you go to.
I dive twice a week at a sports complex in Victoria and I cycle there - often passing some homeless people on the way. Why are those people on the streets? Are they there because they are brilliant, talented, hardworking locals who are forced out of their jobs by immigrants like me? Or are they more likely to be those on the wrong side of the IQ bell curve who have had the odds stacked against them from the start? It's way too easy to blame immigrants and use them as a scapegoat for the issue of unemployment. Would any of these homeless people I pass on the way be as qualified as me and be able to do my job? No, very few people can - and that's how I justify the rates I charge as a consultant.
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| Are you unique or can anyone do your job? |
Sure there are unemployment issues here, there are many things that the governments can do to create more jobs, to get our economy out of this dreadful recession that has gone on way too long, to stimulate growth in our economy - but you need to look at the wider picture rather than blame immigrants for the problem. One of the key problems (which isn't unique to the UK) is that of education and skills training - the better prepared our students are for entering the working world, the less likely they are to end up unemployed. So it is a question of giving these young people practical skills that will lead to jobs, it's about giving them useful work experience and apprenticeships, it is about shifting focus away from memorizing academic concepts to learning practical problem solving skills. That is what we need to resolve the issue of unemployment - rather than just blame the immigrants and claim that once you get rid of the foreigners, our problem of unemployment will be solved: it isn't that simple.
Pamela Xu Those living under bridges tend to be those with alcohol dependency and psychiatric problems.
Precisely, more can be done to help these people with their problems (such as substance abuse) and help them get back to some semblance of a normal life. These people end up homeless because of the various problems in their lives - everyone of them will have a different story to tell but it usually begins with them getting a rough start to life with the odds stacked against them to succeed. The government does offer free homeless shelters to homeless people on the streets - but in exchange for a roof over their heads and three hot meals a day, it means a strict no drugs policy (which many addicts refuse to adhere to) and also, the agencies may say, "I can get you a place in a hostel in Hull or Newport, we can put you on a bus to go there tonight. Sorry but all the hostels in London are full and we cannot offer you a place here, but if you're prepared to go to Hull or Newport, then we can help you." You get the idea, there are many reasons why homeless people turn down what they are offered.
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| Many who are homeless have all kinds of problems and need help. |
Angie Tan Peet Toh, nonsense x3. Unless u get a promotion or of different ranking there. The pay for the same position in Aussie is 1:1 of Singapore. Don't paint all blue skies picture ok. I've seen frens there who stayed unemployed for 2 creaking years. Some get a job after sending in 100+ applications. Some living in their mobile for months while looking for jobs. U r just one lucky bugger (Aussie slang). Doesn't mean it's blue skies there. Your tax is 40+% and u are subsidizing the unemployment benefits there making people who ain't working less motivated to work. U have to fix the plumbing, painting and everything in your house yourself unless u r a filthy rich china man who can pay for the exorbitant labour. Oh well the list goes on n on. Being rooted and being patriotic and having sense of belonging is what makes us human.
On the issue of the pay and tax in Australia, I beg to differ and I know you're wrong. As I have written on this topic before on my blog, if I may I refer you to my previous posts here please:
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/the-fallacy-about-tax-in-west.html
http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/part-3-working-hours-in-east-vs-west.html
1) your friend - for not having the right skills, for not applying for the right jobs, for not performing well at the job interviews, for not identifying business opportunities etc
2) Australia per se
Yes I am an Ah Beng from Ang Mo Kio who has moved from Singapore to London and have been reasonably successful in my career - is that because I am "one lucky bugger"? Or can I take credit for the way I have identified the right industry for me to apply my skills and find lucrative work? I don't believe it's all blue skies here in the West (or in Singapore for that matter) - but quite simply, you have to be very street wise in terms of finding work, you have to be good with people, you need plenty of soft skills on top of academic qualifications and training in order to secure good jobs. It's not just luck - you reap what you sow when it comes to job hunting. Your fate is in your hands and when someone ends up unemployed for 2 years, I blame them - not the economy or the country.
Peeh Toh Of course even without Sg PR I can get an Aussie PR. The most important are the jobs I experience in Sg. It's not about being a Sg PR. Am I not entitle to share what is Singapore to me? So what?
Hi Peeh Toh, of course you are entitled to speak your mind on the issue. You may not agree with what I have to say or what Angie has to say on the issue, but nobody should have the right to tell you to 'shut up and sit down' - your opinions are just as valid as anyone's here. Nobody is right or wrong, we all have the right to contribute to the discourse here, so please don't allow anyone to try to censor or silence you and I would like to thank you for being a part of the conversation here. Let's all try to keep it civil please as we keep the debate going.
Well, Australia has its fair share of racism in the past, but things have improved a lot in recent years and whilst the situation isn't perfect there, it is unfair to paint it as a racist country. It is an evolving country, there is a transition period for Asian migrants to become assimilated and it usually takes one generation. The generation who moves there may not always assimilate well (especially if there is a language barrier), but when their children are born and raised in Australia as Australians, then it is the next generation that will become well and truly assimilated.
And as for Singaporeans being xenophobic and racists, I refer you to my post on the issue here: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/xenophobia-london-vs-singapore.html
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| How racists are Singaporeans? |
Jeffrey Tan I was born here, went through poverty n hardship. I wont run away n give this country to d aliens. Country belongs to true born citizen n not d garmen. Vote them out ! if they get out of hand.
Ah Jeffrey, I admire your spirit and desire to be patriotic, even as you're treated as a second class citizen in your own country, even as you're made to serve NS whilst the government gives out scholarships to people like Sun Xu who don't have to serve NS. I know you love Singapore but does Singapore love you in return? "Vote them out if they get out of hand?" I admire your capacity for putting up with the PAP's bullshit, they have been treating you like shit for all these years and you still don't think they've gotten out of hand yet? You have confused me Jeffrey - if you do love the PAP and support them, then I can understand why you said what you said, but clearly, you don't support the PAP but you're still willing to put up with their crap? What is going on Jeffrey?
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| Jeffrey loves Singapore but does Singapore love Jeffrey? |
Angie Tan But are these type of economy or administration sustainable? Of course everyone would love to be unemployed and get paid. Who doesn't? Haha. Look at Europe now. London inclusive. They are like a debt bubble waiting to burst. And we Asians and Singaporeans still keep idolizing them.
Bottom line is, this world itself IS a capitalist world. No matter where you set foot on. It's often survival of the fittest. One man's meat is another man's poison. Wherever u r happy in, stay there, be committed and serve. Don't expect to be served all the time.
Okay, two points I want to deal with here with Angie again. There are some economies that have imploded - Greece, Spain and Cyprus because of a range of reasons, not just borrowing per se. I agree that governments that continually spend beyond their means are setting themselves up for trouble in the future - but it is extremely simplistic to look at a country at Spain and say, "it's all because of their debt bubble". The problems in Spain are muy complicados - there's a potent Spanish cocktail of problems that have been brewing for years: everything from aggressive labour unions to employment laws that are not business friendly to an education system that has failed young people to the lack of long term planning by governments only focused on the outcome of the next election. Oh they have a very long list of problems that extend way beyond the debt bubble. You need to see the big picture Angie.
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| The problems that the Spanish economy faces are very complicated indeed. |
Likewise, there are economies like Ireland, Iceland, Estonia and Latvia who were affected by the recession and had tough years - but some like Iceland are showing green shoots of recovery in recent years and things are looking promising in Iceland today. The fact is some of these countries will recover faster than others, recessions will come and go as they have over the course of history but some countries will recover and emerge stronger than others. Just because a country is in trouble today doesn't mean it won't be booming again in the near future. You can't treat 'Europe' as a monolithic entity when there are countries like Sweden and Norway which have been booming whilst others like Cyprus and Greece have been in big trouble - and there's everything in between.
Yes we're in a capitalist world, yes it is the survival of the fittest - but I am a lot more practical when it comes to this concept of 'be committed and serve'. I served NS faithfully for 2 years 4 months only to be treated like a second-class citizen in Singapore? And when I worked in Istanbul, it was a booming city with plenty of opportunities and whilst it breaks my heart to see what is happening to that beautiful city today, I would not return there to work again until things return to normal, hopefully under a new, more democratic government without that evil dictator Erdogan.
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| We live in a capitalist world - cash is king. |
Pamela Xu London is very dangerous with lots of fanatics. If is now called Londonistan. Better to move to smaller towns in the countryside.
Are we talking about the same city? London, like any big city, has its share of crime - but fanatics? What the hell are you talking about? Sure we may have a few isolated incidents like the attack in Woolwich recently and then you have to go back several years for the 7 July bombings in 2005, but you are clearly making a hateful, racist statement about Muslims. Yes there are Muslims in London as we are a vibrant, multi-cultural, multi-ethnic city but the vast majority of Muslims are modern, secular and peace-loving members of our society who are anything but fanatics. You cannot spout such hateful statements just because there are a few fundamentalists who do stupid things - I am living in central London and am very happy where I am thank you. Stop making hateful anti-Muslim remarks like that Pamela!
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| I am very happy living in London, it is a safe and lovely city. |
Hanafi Supanova The govt may be bullocks but my heart belongs to my country.. so for this only reason I will never leave my motherland behind
How sweet - Hanafi loves Singapore. It's a shame Singapore doesn't love Hanafi and treats him like a second class citizen in his own country, ah well - love is blind indeed!
Fashirah Parvin I will never do so because I am a foreigner in another country. Those govt give priority to their locals. Why on earth would I leave my country and give it in to some foreigners??? I will not let foreign idiots take over Singapore!
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| Do you understand how job markets work? |
So in this case, it's not a question of the Canadian government not giving priority to their locals - the Canadian government can't force their local Canadians to go into nursing as a profession. It just so happens that when left to the free market, younger Canadians have opted to work in other industries, in other professions instead, leaving a gap in the job market that needs to be filled urgently (imagine what would happen to their hospitals if they didn't have enough nurses). Hence foreign nurses in Canada are well-paid, respected and treated with respect because they are there to fill an important gap in the job market, to provide a vital service that Canadians need.
It's simply a question of supply and demand in the labour market - when gaps appear in a labour market, that's when migration can happen for foreign workers to step in and fill that gap. It's just how market forces determine where these gaps may appear in certain labour markets and when they appear, it's not a question of giving priority to locals when the locals don't even want to do those jobs (such as nursing in Canada). So please don't assume anything about how governments in the West behave towards foreign workers.
Zhi Wei Abit wrong leh. If the IC in the first picture is his, he serve army in 1995 he is only 14 years old?
The pink IC in the TRS article is clearly not mine - I had to surrender mine to the Singapore High Commission in London when I renounced my citizenship years ago and no, I didn't take a photo of it as a souvenir. Maybe I should've - but hey, too late as they don't let you hold on to your Singaporean passport or NRIC after you cease being a Singaporean citizen. That NRIC photo was placed there by the TRS editor, not me. As you can see on my blog, I didn't use that photo. Here's a recent photo for you if you wanna know what Limpeh looks like. I'm 37 years old.
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| That's me with my Chao Ah Beng glare. |
Yiming Woo · What I got from this article: this guy has mother issues
Well Yiming, yes and no. Yes I do have mother issues in that I never got along with my mother and was never close to her; but then again, my friend Anita is in the same situation - ie. she doesn't get along with her mother. However, after she got married, she focused her time, energy and efforts on her husband rather than her parents and virtually ignored her mother for years. Her mother made little efforts to reach out to this estranged daughter as well and the most astonishing part of the story is this: they all live in Tampines within a short walk of each other. Yeah, Anita used to tell me that she would even accidentally bump into her mother at the bus stop or local supermarket and they still wouldn't say much to each other! So you can fall out with your parents without moving halfway around the world.
So yes, if I didn't have mother issues I wouldn't be raising them in my blog - gosh, I really don't give a damn if people say, "oh you shouldn't talk about things like that on your blog, it may embarrass your parents etc." But I feel that only someone who has had Singaporean parents can relate to what I have been through, someone like my reader Xiong Mao has expressed empathy and understanding. I can't express the comfort I get when I read his comments today and I thought, aha - at least one person out there understands me. So maybe I should have addressed my 'mother issues' in a separate blog post, but my mother wasn't the reason why I gave up my Singaporean nationality.
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| Limpeh in Austria earlier this year |
Thanks for an entertaining blog. There is something I would like to ask. Was it more of a push factor or a pull factor when you gave up your pink IC? I know it's a bit of both but if you weigh them, which weigh heavier for you to make this decision?
ReplyDeleteA little about myself, I have been living mostly overseas since 1995 in Australia. Although having obtained PR here many years ago, I have decided not to give up my Singapore citizenship simply to maintain my right to vote. I am just as disappointed as you are with how PAP has perverted the country but I never gave up hope that one day PAP will be kicked out.
If you are still such a passionate observer of the happenings in Singapore, is having a British passport and all the opportunities it bring so beneficial for you to turn your back and give up your right to vote to bring change to Singapore? I know, you're just 1 vote. It is just a drop but I am hoping that there are many drops like me that will cause the bucket to finally overflow.
Anyway it is too late as you have already turned in your IC. I am glad that you're trying to reach out especially to the 60% to get them to really open up their eyes.
Hello there mate and thanks for your comment.
DeleteI would say it is a combination of push & pull factors that drew me from Singapore to London - if you had to force me to say which is more... I would have to say it's the pull factor. I really enjoyed my time at university and I know a lot of Singaporeans are gonna HATE me for saying this, "jiat-kentang" etc blah blah blah, but yeah I had developed a taste for London and preferred it to Singapore. I guess upon my graduation, there was a thought in my head which was, "would I be able to make it in the big city here?" Whereas if I returned to Singapore, I think the path might've been pretty certain - I'd follow in the footsteps of my two older sisters who have forged successful careers and I'll end up in the same social circles as them doing the same thing (they both work in the world of corporate communications/PR).
Ironically, I do the same thing in the UK albeit for a different industry, but it's still PR at the end of the day. I guess it's that moment in the movie Matrix where you have to choose between the red pill or the blue pill - take the pill marked Singapore and you return to something familiar, where you know the path you're gonna take and you can foresee exactly what's gonna happen in the next 10, 20, 30 years etc.
Take the other pill and you're plunged into the unknown with no more than a big question mark to mark your future. Now some people will take the Singapore pill because a big question mark, the uncertainty is scary. I took the other pill and embraced the future with a sense of "gimme what you've got!"
As for the second question, you've answered it yourself - it's one vote. It is a drop is a big bucket. It's like where I live in the UK, it is such a safe seat that it doesn't matter whom I vote for, I know whom my MP is going to be as the Tories have never ever lost in my ward in living memory. I still vote but there's a sense of 'I already know the outcome ...'
So it's the power of influence of ONE vote vs all the benefits I could get with a British passport - you know the answer to that already.
Jealousis, you must not have much CPF locked away here. Either that or you are sitting on a HDB title with a comfortable rental income stream. That's a good thing!
DeleteHaving looked at the differences in privileges between Oz PR and Oz citizenship, I wouldn't go for Oz citizenship for any benefits. I would however, go for it to get the chance to renounce my Sg citizenship, even though I don't exactly have a huge sum in my CPF.
That, and NS. It's sad that I successfully fought for a medical status upgrade from a PES E9. Apparently that means that I fought to QUALIFY FOR reservist call-ups. Stupid, rash decision. :(
IMO, If one is already living overseas and have presumably served NS, NS commitments will make no difference anymore. I actually think CPF + HDB can be a good thing as HDB rental yield is still very decent in this country, normally very cash-flow positive, so it really hardly (if ever) make sense to throw that away.
DeleteUnless of course, you need money to finance your other property at your new home, which should ideally be financed with other means where possible.
I beg to differ DC. Yes I served NS because I had no choice but I didn't want to waste one more day of my life with the SAF. It's a bit like a rape victim saying, "oh since you've already raped me, I may as well let you have sex with me again." I didn't want to give a single day of my adult like to reservist duties - yes I am that resentful after a horrible time in NS.
DeleteI am happily managing my own pension funds and I currently own 2 London properties with plans to buy a third, that would give me a multi-million dollar property portfolio. Limpeh 不稀罕 HDB flats - even if I were to invest in property in Singapore, come on, there are so many nice condos, why would you resort to buying a HDB flat?
Hey LFT,
DeleteOn NS - My take is relatively simple. Since I had no opportunity to not serve NS, I just went through it with more positive thinking that most people. And truth be told, I made some good friends in the army, and learnt some important life lessons.
But that was than. For people who have moved out of the country and are moving overseas, I'm actually just pointing out to the fact that unless they return, NS commitment will not apply anymore. Their exit permit will take care of that and they will never need to go back to camp, unless they return of course.
As for CPF and property, I take a different view. I don't really care for the CPF Pension fund approach. That's IMO, bullshit since it can't afford my lifestyle. But I still like HDB. Not because HDB is affordable (we all know thats bullshit), but more because HDB's rental yield makes absolute sense.
I do have several properties (out of country), but I see no sense in owning any other property in SG besides a HDB for rental yield in this country because it makes no sense. Why spend $Ms for 3% yield when you can get 8% yield, or in some cases, 10-11%?
For that reason alone, I won't let go of my HDB if I'm living in other countries. It makes no sense, considering it is cash flow positive, good rental yield and cheap money.
Furthermore, since I have good credit ratings with all the banks in SG, even if I'm overseas, I'll borrow money here to facilitate my cash flow in higher interest countries. Where else in the world besides US, SG and probably UK can we borrow decently large sums of money (at least for me) at under 1.5% PA. Sometimes I even get money for free. Comparing to the 5 - 8% mortgages that I'm looking at down under, its cheap like hell :)
Personally, people moving anywhere need to look at everything in totality. Taxes is just one part of it. Lifestyle is one part. Family is one part. They all add up. SG makes it for some people, not for some people. But for people who move, they ought to be smarter and use the system to their benefit, not their way around.
OK, I agree with you for most of your points. I had this 'bo pien let's make the most of it' attitude when it came to NS as well, but I didn't have a good experience simply because I felt I was treated like cannon fodder and I spent most of my time trying to keep my head down and not kena arrow/not kena tekan by acting stupid/quiet - hardly the kind of environment to nurture young men to be confident adults.
DeleteYour 1 vote in SG is useless especially with all the gerrymandering of the PAP and mass conversion of new citizens.
ReplyDeleteSad but true!
DeleteHey there Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI'm living in Central London as well (2 minutes walk from Waterloo station to be exact) and I'd very much like to meet you over coffee to talk about being a Singaporean in a foreign country.
Cheers,
NEWater
I guess moving for people who already have careers, families and assets here in the country would be tougher than yourself who was there to study and eventually worked there. Starting your career in the UK, and expanding it eventually does make it easier for you to continue to stay.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm actually quite curious why you went the honest route when so many Singaporeans who moved are actually quiet dual citizens?
Exactly, it's far easier to make the move when you're younger.
DeleteIn hindsight, I guess I was too obedient when I gave up my Singaporean passport - I was following the rules. One of my former VJC classmates has an NZ passport whilst still holding on to his Singaporean passport and he said that there was no way he was going to be caught, not unless say he arrived at Changi airport with two passports and got his bag searched etc.
Oh well, I'm waiting for the day when quiet dual citizens can be open dual citizens. I think it will happen. It's just a matter of when. In the meantime, I'll join the league of being a quiet dual citizen if I have to, but still pondering along the way.
DeleteHi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteI chanced upon your blog yesterday as you had mentioned that your previous blog post went viral. Few of my friends were sharing your post on facebook and it led me here.
I just wanna say that I really like the way you write and a lot of your thoughts and opinions have really hit home with me and I am really intrigued by the unique situations you have been in since when you were in Spore and subsequently after up till now.
I have some questions that I would like to ask you if I may, I apologize in advance if these questions have been posed to you before.
- do you see yourself returning to Spore to settle down? If so, when do you feel will be a good time?
- when was the last time you came back to Spore to visit your friends and family?
- what were your thoughts then? After all, it is a different thing altogether to be constantly updated on the daily happenings in Spore from various online sources when you're overseas as to stepping foot back on to the place you were from.
- do you feel that your relationship with Spore akin to that of a failed teenage romance? you guys have broken off badly, you do move on but you never really forget about her entirely.she is etched in your heart and mind forever in their respective little corners. you keep constant tabs on her and criticize the people she mixes with and the guys she dates, when deep down inside all you yearn for is some sort of resolution?
Anyway, thank you in advance. Looking forward to your response and future posts!
Regards,
W
Hi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteI chanced upon your blog yesterday as you had mentioned that your previous blog post went viral. Few of my friends were sharing your post on facebook and it led me here.
I just wanna say that I really like the way you write and a lot of your thoughts and opinions have really hit home with me and I am really intrigued by the unique situations you have been in since when you were in Spore and subsequently after up till now.
I have some questions that I would like to ask you if I may, I apologize in advance if these questions have been posed to you before.
- do you see yourself returning to Spore to settle down? If so, when do you feel will be a good time?
- when was the last time you came back to Spore to visit your friends and family?
- what were your thoughts then? After all, it is a different thing altogether to be constantly updated on the daily happenings in Spore from various online sources when you're overseas as to stepping foot back on to the place you were from.
- do you feel that your relationship with Spore akin to that of a failed teenage romance? you guys have broken off badly, you do move on but you never really forget about her entirely.she is etched in your heart and mind forever in their respective little corners. you keep constant tabs on her and criticize the people she mixes with and the guys she dates, when deep down inside all you yearn for is some sort of resolution?
Anyway, thank you in advance. Looking forward to your response and future posts!
Regards,
W
Hi - thanks for your questions which I will answer now!
Delete1. No, I will never ever return to Singapore to settle down (though I will visit as a tourist from time to time). The reason is simple: the PAP has screwed up Singapore big time to make it a really unpleasant place to live. You're sleep walking your way to a really bleak future - the island is so freaking small for crying out aloud, yet the PAP wants to cram 6.9 million people in - and there was even talk of 10 million? Think about the competition for resources, housing, education, public transport, water, everything is going to be stretch beyond their limits, to breaking point. You know, when I was a young boy, there was a population of 2.5 million only in Singapore and already, we were saying back then how we were a small country with limited resources - and now the PAP wants to import millions of Indians, PRCs and Pinoys? Good grief. It's a one-way ticket to doom with their policy - get the hell out whilst you can!!!!
2. Nov 2011, but I am about to book a flight to go in July 2013.
3. Well, I think there's always a 'honeymoon' period where everyone is on their best behaviour for a few days, then when it is over, they start arguing and bitching in front of me - my sister and mother have had an argument in front of me the last time I was back and that was when I knew, okay, it's like I never left, the honeymoon period is over and we're allowed to bitch and fight now. I do have some close friends in Singapore whom I am very fond of and I enjoy catching up with them when I am back in S'pore. Then again, for me it's a litmus test - if someone can make the effort to keep in touch with me via Facebook when I am in London, then I will make the effort to go see them in Singapore - it's just a small group but I always hang out with them whenever I am back and we'll go do the fun stuff together.
4. No - rather I see my relationship with Singapore like my parents, we don't get to choose our parents, they are a big part of our life in our formative years and like it or not, they would've been a huge influence on the way we turn out (for better or for worse). I talked about this with a friend and he said, "yes but even when you were so defiant and rebellious, you were still defining your actions contrary to your mother's wishes - so she is still the reference point for behaviour." You get the idea - I don't get to choose the country where I was born and grew up, so like it or not I have to come to terms with it and accept that it has made me the person I am today.
Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the lively discussion, its been interesting to hear the perspectives from both sides. As someone who has left the country quite early and have no intention of returning, I agree with much of your sentiment towards the political and social landscape in Singapore. However, I would be more reserved in suggesting that others in Singapore should follow the same path; it is not as easy as you make it out to be.
You mentioned the example of a nursing shortage in Canada, while true, foreign nurses will often find steep re-certification requirements and the need to start from junior levels despite their experience. Obviously this contributes to the shortage but the framework is true of many professions and is certainly not going away, to the frustration of landed immigrants. In Canada, the requirement for local experience is a big stumbling block.
It is also understandable why many will hold on to the perceived security of the Singaporean state, as they are the types of personalities that would find it difficult to adapt to cultural expectations overseas. I've seen talented immigrants in Canada or the US struggle despite a solid CV, as they just do not cope well outside of the padded walls of Singapore. The PAP have done a tremendous job of raising a generation that depends on their coddling, and these folks would rather be comfortably ignorant to the deteriorating standard of living in an environment where they are marginally valued, than attempt the struggle outside. I'd say its best they stay at home.
Keep these great posts coming.
Hi there - thanks for your message, allow me to respond to your points.
Delete1. Gosh, yeahs ago I used to work near a major London hospital and there were soooo many Filipino nurses that a Filipino cafe opened near the hospital just to serve the nurses there and I used to go there for lunch as well. The Pinoys paid one price and the white people paid a different price (more expensive) and the Filipina auntie used to joke, "I give you honorary Pinoy status because you're from Singapore, I charge you Pinoy prices." Yes there are challenges to do with recertifications etc but gosh we have a nursing shortage here in the UK as well and Filipino nurses with limited or no local experience are better than no nurses at all when you have a ward full of sick patients!
2. Perceived security of the Singaporean state indeed, LMFAO. You're right when you say that these people turn their inability to adapt to new cultures and new environments into this 'perceived security of the Singaporean state'. I have said soooo many times on my blog before, it takes more than a solid CV to succeed in your career - you need to have soft skills: you need to be good with people, you need to know how to network, how to schmooze, how to make new friends, how to get your boss to acknowledge your contributions, how to get along with your colleagues, how to find allies in the work place - so many things they never taught you at school!
Agree with the observations that most who quote the perceived security and "racism" and "second class citizen" argument have difficulties adapting to different cultural expectations and performance standards overseas. I often wondered how much of the "I get overlooked compared to my ang mo colleagues who slack and talk more" is really true, as solid CVs doesn't amount to much without the accompanying soft skills. I work in a consultancy, and what matters more is a combination of a solid CV and soft skills and most people in Singapore have trouble with that, having grown up in a country where they have not needed to exercise much critical thinking or improvise on the fly. All the policies are kiddy gloved and idiot proofed, and it is hard to make seriously bad choices in Singapore when the system coddles them and make the default safe selections even if they do not do anything, whereas in a society such as UK or Australia (where I am now), failure to exercise your thinking faculties can lead to some seriously bad choices and consequences.
DeleteAs with what you have written, a lot of Singaporeans who complained about others who left (ungrateful being the most common) or cite reasons about security can't make it out themselves anyway, or are too much in their comfort zone to dare move out. Read somewhere (Plutocrats is the title of the book) that immigrant societies such as Australia and US do very well as emigrants tend to have higher level of endorphins, and the excitement of something new and drastically different (such as transplanting into a totally new society and a different culture) often drives them to much higher level of creativity. Any prizes for guessing why the spurs are not stuck in the hide? :-) As much as I dislike and detest LKY, he did get it right when he said that.
Seriously, if I am starting a branch office in Singapore, I will not hire Singaporeans (not all, there are some good ones but rare as heck to find). Want too much, not enough drive (and I am not talking about working hours since drive has nothing to do with how many hours they work), and standards that are too low plus the anal focus on appearance rather than substance.
As for Australian racism, there is racism everywhere but Australia is better than Singapore. Key to resolving it is to talk about it and debate the issues, and work it into the national consciousness instead of enacting laws and ban discussions. I have not been discriminated in any way, shape or form in the last 5 years in Australia, and for that matter was actively discouraged from applying for middle management positions because the company wanted to move me to a senior management position that is being created. It is all about adapting to the new culture and societal norms, and proving oneself. All that Singapore experience counts for nothing until you prove yourself, and a lot of Singaporeans just think that they can waltz in, flash their Singapore credentials and get into the same sort of position. What I find is that it takes a lot more for the equivalent position in Singapore.
Enough said, good points your brought up and glad that I chucked my pink IC (wife and kids as well, all proudly Australian now) at the first opportunity. And now getting invited to Singapore every once in a while as a consultant, making 3 times more than what I used to get paid doing the same thing. Just exactly like your experience, the government will want you if you have the talents, whether you ditched them in the first place or not.
Well said, I agree with what you wrote.
DeleteLook out for a post coming out soon on the issue of 'second class citizens'.
Just wanted to say that Canada seems to have enough nurses now.
ReplyDeletehttp://winkingdoll.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/canada-has-enough-nurses-re-fswp.html
Ah okay, I am neither Canadian nor a nurse - so I will always have to refer you to WD on that isue as she's the expert. Come to England then if you're a nurse as our hospitals are so full of Eastern European and Filipino nurses.
DeleteMate, I too am a Singaporean in self imposed exile in Blighty and have had an almost identical experience to you. Having left Singapore after serving all 2 Years and 4 months of my NS liability, I was fortunate enough to be funded by my (very supportive and loving) folks to go to university in UK, found a job, a brilliant group of friends of various backgrounds and never looked back. That was 14 years ago, time flies...
ReplyDeleteI have been banging on for years about the Singaporean male being a second class citizen, so I feel strangely vindicated to have read your blog because your arguments are exactly those I have marshalled in the past; maybe it's my Singaporean programming, but it feels good to know I am not completely barkers.
I'd like to think that I have mellowed somewhat through the years. Call it apathy, but I have lost all will to make the 60.14 percent see the light. It's a pretty thankless task. At best you are cajoled "not to think to much lah", at worst, you are denounced as a high brow, elitist twat (yes, I can think of a few choice singlish replacements for "twat ", but I've been away so long I don't even swear like that anymore).
Though I think your arguments for giving up your pink IC are completely justified, nationality, like sexuality, ultimately comes down to personal choice. However, that swings (if you'll excuse the pun) both ways. It's narrow minded of people to label you a traitor for playing the game as the rules are set (but as you have observed, misery loves company) . But at the same time, I have accepted that some people are probably quite happy to make sub optimal decisions. Whatever. I have learnt to let it go. From a selfish perspective maybe it's for the best that not everybody thinks optimally.
I am getting married soon to a lovely English girl and will probably try to raise a family in the UK. I have often thought how lucky I was to have been brought up in a loving family, with warm weather which meant I was playing out loads, with a great education that cost next to nothing (compared to the UK), and in a cohesive multicultural environment where it didn't matter to me if you were purple as long as you were a good friend. I have often thought that were I to have any kids, I'd want them to be raised in Singapore so they could benefit as I did (maybe even have them do some NS just in case their over privileged backsides needs a good kicking, I know mine did). I am sad to say that this is no longer the case, principally because of how I feel a bigoted minority behaves towards foreigners of all stripes. I agree when you say they have to hate the game, not the foreigners who play it. I guess that's a really long winded way of saying that even though the club is still the same (maybe even posher), the atmosphere has changed and the party has moved on somewhere else.
Au revoir.
Ps Limpeh, are there, or were there ever moments in your adventures abroad where you thought: "given the normal course of events and probability, an ah beng from AMK shouldn't even be here doing this?". I sometimes get that when I am sat in a cab traversing Tower Bridge the dead of night (no I am not from AMK). It sounds silly but it sometimes bring a tear to my eye to realise that I have had an opportunity less ordinary.....
Yes, well - I hate to sound bitter and use this to put down Singaporeans again but I did get that feeling in 2005 when I had the opportunity to work with someone EXTREMELY famous whom I had been idolizing since I was a kid. I met her, worked with her, felt totally overwhelmed and awe-struck by the experience and then was stupid enough to write about it in a Singaporean forum, only to be met by such VILE HATRED and ANGER from Singaporeans who accused me of being a liar - all of those Singaporeans stuck in AMK, Bishan, Toa Payoh etc couldn't believe that I did what I did and I'm like, okay, fuck the lot of you losers, perhaps it was wrong of me to boast, but for the rest of you losers to accuse me of fabricating that story, that just shows how much in denial you are of how small your world is and you assume that everyone has a frog at the bottom of the well attitude like you guys, I say, fuck them.
DeleteLimpeh, I actually empathize with your situation about being accused of fabricating a story, although in actuality, you experienced it and can vouch for it yourself. As someone who studied overseas extensively, and has a higher degree(a PhD in fact from a Canadian research university) with full funding and scholarships covering my fees and other expenses, it is somewhat disgusting when one gets accused of certain things, such as that I "paid my way into a program and the obtaining of the degree scroll". Even things like my employment status, the fact that I get paid higher than these people as a starting salary, is something which they simply could not accept and had to constantly disparage with sore lies. But as you said before, all these people are seriously in denial of their inadequacy. Please, for crying out loud, these guys are sore losers, because not only do they write badly, I figured out that none of them--ABSOLUTELY none--are capable of achieving what I did nor finishing it through to begin with. After a while, I came to realize the "Matrix" that many Singaporeans are in: it simply does not befit them to have their illusions about themselves being shattered, so in any case, whatever! They can yada-yada whatever they want, but it is not as if their talking is going to make me lose my degree scroll or my money from my job.
DeleteWell thanks for empathy Kev, I guess I wanted to share what was a very pleasant experience - whilst others shot me down for 'showing off' which is a big taboo in Singaporean culture I suppose.
DeleteIt's not like I claimed to be some famous big shot - I simply worked for someone who is a famous big shot. It's not the same thing - but even then, that was too much for some Singaporeans to take. Duh. All these big shots have had thousands of people worked for them over the years, I'm just one of them ...
I think that this inability to accept such 'showing off'(more like honesty about great experiences) is common in Japan too. The good thing is, most foreigners are on limited term contracts anyway, and unless you really want to think about staying here permanently, all these issues like whether you stick out or not are kind of inconsequential. It does appear strange that for all the claims to want to be international or global, Singaporeans cannot tolerate the idea of someone being that much more blessed or 'luckier' than them. I have had Canadian and American friends who cannot fully understand why I left Singapore, and decided never to return whatever the results of the political elections, and only when I listed this 'tall poppy syndrome' as one of the various reasons did they start understanding why. That said, yes, it is extremely surprising to them, since they have an impression that Singapore is a democracy--at least among the Americans(Canadians think otherwise).
DeleteJust to add, it also depends on your agenda when you boast about something. If you say it in a way to make everyone feel like losers, then you'd get the negative reactions. If you say it in a way to inspire others, some will be motivated.
DeleteDifferent people work different ways- carrots work on some, and the stick works on some. But there are some where nothing will work.
About PhDs- I don't know why but at the moment overseas research students seem to be the majority in local unis. Even in A*star research programs, PhD locals are also in the minority. Instead I have a SG friend here who graduated from ngee ann poly, would never have made it to NUS/NTU but got into a good uni in Australia and even got a scholarship to do his PhD. He has stayed on in Australia and is now in research and can you imagine if he never ventured out of the tiny red dot?
Concerning what Jealousis said, I think that it is unfair to criticize the standard of teaching in NUS and other local universities. Based on personal observations, NUS is actually better than a lot of Japanese universities, not only in the calibre of students(sorry, I mean local students who get in), but also, the nature of its programs. But that said, yes, its admission policies are extremely screwed up as much as its policies for recruiting faculty. In some faculties, the majority of professors are foreigners, when in all honesty, the nature of the subject itself is a subject that many local students would enroll in if given a choice, such as engineering and computer science. What causes the disproportion in such hiring of faculty? I do not think that we need to speculate too much about this.
DeleteAs for student enrollment, in most universities abroad, there is always a clause that the university has to ensure enough places for their own local students who apply other than making sure that they make their money from international students. Even in countries like the USA and Canada which have a large international student population, as well as Asian immigrants, this understanding is almost taken for granted. Why Singaporean universities actually allow for a large majority of foreign students in their research programs does not just seem ridiculous but even shady to me, almost like dealing in some form of business or money trafficking.
Jealousis, your friend made the right choice to venture out to Australia to study. I would never have gotten a good offer or any job offer if I had stayed on in NUS to do my PhD, because its ranking for that field I do is almost non-existent. Despite the constant bragging that NUS has in reporting its constantly high rankings on international education journals and reports(or reviews), it really depends on the discipline.
Hello Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteI'm an expat who has followed much the same path as you in life. The difference between us is that I don't blame Singapore or the "system".
Just take a moment to help me understand here. You seem like a fairly mature and realistic person with a good deal of life experience. Many of your posts (e.g your property post) mention that life is unfair and people should try to deal with that themselves instead of looking to the Government.
1) So why do you seem to be upset that the Singapore system is unfair? Why the cognitive dissonance?
All we're doing is exactly what your university did by giving you a scholarship. Simply put, we need their talent more than they need us, and they know it.
2) You mentioned the various benefits you get in the EU. If we don't offer foreigners benefits, do you think they will come to Singapore?
3) Is it fair to blame the PAP for what is arguably the only possible response to our natural constraints?
4) Does any other political party have a different roadmap for Singapore? By endorsing a (slightly lower) population target the WP has indicated it will merely pander to popular sentiment while continuing the FT policy. It's not stupid.
5) I've noticed that on your blog you try to encourage Singaporeans to do things for themselves and venture into the unknown.
After reading your article, do you think most of your readers will:
a - use this as evidence of how the system is broken and whine for the Government to fix it, or
b - say 'screw the system' and try to find a way to beat it?
6) As for myself, I have kept my pink IC. Singapore makes a great Asian base, and no point giving it up after I have already paid for it. I'm practical - just like you.
Allow me to deal with the points you have raised.
Delete1. I think the Singaporean system is unfair because it puts the Singaporean males at a distinct disadvantage when having to compete with other foreigner talents - you are taking the stance whereby you're saying, look at the big picture, there are winners and losers, and I'm like fine, but I don't enjoy being a loser in such a system and I don't think the losers should be satisfied in being told that their suffering should be put in the context of the big picture and they should just shut up and put up with it.
2. I get some benefits as a CITIZEN that all CITIZENS, whether they are indigenous/born locally or newly naturalized migrants enjoy. These benefits are not there to tempt highly educated/skilled/qualified folks like myself to move here, these are just part of the system here and I chose to be part of the British system. Unlike Singapore, there is no active recruitment of 'foreign talents' in the UK - they simply rely on places like London being attractive enough to attract foreigners to want to work here anyway. So you've misunderstood the situation and got your facts wrong - I was never 'lured' here by the British government, I chose to move here by my own accord.
3. Yes it is totally fair to blame the PAP for the way they have screwed up - they are a bunch of evil, incompetent corrupt fools. But worse still, are the brain dead 60.14% who vote for these fools.
4. I am willing to give any political party a chance to try to deliver a better future for Singapore.
5. I am not trying to encourage anyone to do anything they don't already wanna do - you don't get it, I have made it very clear in my previous posts, I have absolutely no desire to be popular. I fucking swear a lot, I call people names, I tell certain individuals that they're fucking stupid etc - I am not setting myself up as a nice person with kindly advice! Surely if you speak any Hokkien, you'll realize that my choice of my blogging alter ego as Limpeh is pretty indicative of the kind of attitude I take here, it's not just some cute Hokkien nick name, it is Hokkien for 'your father' which implies, "shut the fuck up kid, I know better than you". So frankly, I don't know what my readers will do - that's really up to them to decide what's best for them, I am not trying to tell them what to do.
My personal stance is that the system is broken beyond repair in Singapore and the best thing to do is leave - that's what I did but I recognize also that not everyone has the luxury of being able to gain entry into another developed country easily and so they're just stuck in Singapore with little choices.
6. I'm far more at home in Europe than in Asia, hence London is my home now.
Someone has taken the trouble to write in his/her blog that you are such an "Ungrateful ex-Singaporean" for having taken up a scholarship paid for by Singaporean taxpayer's monies which he/she would not even mind giving to some foreigner who will return to Singapore to show more gratefulness than you.
DeleteI note that you have previously mentioned that you have taken up a scholarship from some foreign university which did not require you to serve any bond and therefore would you want to clarify on such matters whether facts may have been misrepresented ?
Thank you Alan, I welcome the opportunity to clear the air - if you're willing to rely to this blogger the facts please.
DeleteYou're both right.
I have had 3 scholarships in my life time - two were Singaporean (ie. thank you Singaporean tax payer, I have benefited from your taxes) and one was British.
The two Singaporean scholarships were my humanities scholarship and my SSC (Singapore Sports Council) scholarship when I was a student at VJC.
Upon receiving my A level results, I shopped around for scholarships and opted to go with the one that came WITHOUT a bond, ie. directly from my university in the UK, so I would be able to keep my options open upon graduation as I didn't know at that age what I wanted to do as an adult.
The value of the humanities scholarship scheme for JC students isn't worth that much, nor was the value of the SSC scholarship (not when you compare it to what my university offered me to study there), but a scholarship is a scholarship and yes I took money from the S'pore govt, but that was as a JC student, not as a university student.
I suppose there was confusion because it is highly unusual for anyone to have more than one scholarship, never mind three in my case.
I hope that clarifies the matter, thank you.
I don't think I need bother to relay your response to the blogger who refers himself/herself as the GreatSage under the blog SG Web Reviews. He/she can read your response here. For all we know, he/she could have been one of those cyber IB employed by PAP to sabo their opponents.
DeleteAnyway, thanks for your straightforward response.
Oh yeah, I dealt with that issue last year when we were talking about Alvin Tan (of Alvivi - remember him?!?!) being a Malaysian scholar who gave up his law studies at NUS despite being a scholar. A lot of Singaporeans demanded that Alvin Tan give back his scholarship money for having not completed his law degree and Alvin was like, "read the small print, I am not obliged to give back a cent, you guys should've drafted a more water tight contract if you wanted me to give something back in exchange for accepting that scholarship."
DeleteLikewise, when I got my scholarships, I read the small print and made sure that there was no obligation or strings tied in exchange for accepting the money - and there weren't. That was precisely why I chose a university scholarship that didn't come with a bond so I could keep my options open.
At the end of the day, a scholarship contract is between the scholar and the awarding body - not the society at large. After all, the decision as to whom the scholarship is awarded to is often determined by a rather small group of decision makers at the awarding body - it is not voted by the general public in a "X-Factor/Big Brother/America's Got Talent" kind of public vote, so any kind of debt/obligation (moral or monetary) is all clearly stated in the contract.
There you go.
Hey..
ReplyDeleteLike you, I'm a Singaporean living and working in London. My partner and I have a 1 year old. She's born in London.
I read a couple of your postings, including the one on UK/ Aust /Singapore taxes. You may already discuss these in your earlier postings but if you have not, you may want also want to share with the audience on general cost of living and NI? I live in zone 2. You seem to live in zone 1? Good on you! The cost of a train ticket during peak hour on oyster is £2.40 and you can't get at indecent meal for less than £6 (assuming cheap take away duck rice at Wai Chai corner) or perhaps a meal deal at Subway? I’m pretty sure net of taxes, we have ‘more’ to spend in Singapore then in UK.
I am with you on the effective personal tax computation. My partner and I are on the 40% bracket. Including NI, we are giving away pretty much effectively 40% or more of our wages to the government. People who are thinking that we are paying 40% to 50% of our pay check to the government may not be ‘wrong’ since they are looking at the perspective what’s gone to the government on pay day (if NI has been factored in).
On racism, there are Brits that are racist. It could come in subtle form or right in your face! I felt discriminated by a non white woman when I went to the town hall to register myself on the electoral roll. I felt like telling the woman, unlike your same kind, I’m not here to get benefit! In fact, I helped fund your same kind loitering the street and populating indiscriminately! There were one or 2 random non-white racist incidents. I got a middle finger while the coward left the bus that I was on.
So why not go back to Singapore then? There’s combination of push and pull factor. For me, the pull factor is a lot stronger then the push. I know I can afford a house with a decently nice garden (in zone 2 or further of course!) with a regular pay check. I don’t have to pay over the roof for a car and can drive it ‘forever’ (in fact, who really need to drive in London! ). There is a lot more things to enjoy in London, the seasonal weather, musical, ballet.. there’s a lot more varied things that we can do.. and of course the vibrant debate between Cameron and Millband over many issues, for example another runway for Heathrow?