Hi there guys, I have a reputation on my blog for tackling the elephant in the room that few people dare to talk about and thus I have offended a lot of people over the years in daring to do just that - well, hold on tight folks as this is going to be one of those offensive and controversial posts. I'm going to discuss how I struggle with the fact that my parents are uneducated whilst let's just say I'm quite the opposite having done well for myself. In September this year, I started a new job for a South American asset manager and I was brought in as the technical expert from London - the fact is a lot of the investment products that are used in Latin America are structured in Europe and since I have years of experience working with these product providers in Europe, I am in a good position to guide my Latin American colleagues and clients through the complex world of investment products. It isn't just my technical knowledge that I am using in this process, I also know a lot of people in the business so I am also making sure that my company and clients work with the right people in Europe. Thus whilst I am speaking primarily in Spanish with my team and clients in Latin America, I also use German and French when dealing with some of the product providers in Europe as well. It is hard enough to do what I do only in English, but when you add the language component to it, it becomes infinitely harder. But I do enjoy the challenge of course, I did a Zoom call last week with a client in France with my boss in Peru, I switched seemlessly between French and Spanish, whilst carefully avoiding my mother tongue English and thus impressing the both of them.
This is when I'd like to quote Ginger Rogers, "you should try doing it backwards, in heels." You see, she was famous for her elaborate dance routines with Fred Astaire in the 1930s and 1940s - as dance partners, she was expected to mirror everything that Astaire had choreographed but she was doing it backwards and in heels, making it infinitely harder for her and it is evident that what was demanded of her was off the scale in terms of difficulty. Hence that's the phrase that most people use when they are doing something that's far harder than what most people perceive. When my friends from within the industry find out what I am doing in this job, they are quite shocked as they realize the magnitude of the challenges I face. Latin American Spanish is a whole different level of pain! Thus if you speak English then you can communicate with people from all over the English speaking world and even if the accents are different you will understand each other. I am currently watching an Australian TV programme and I don't need subtitles. But with Latin American Spanish, holy crap the amount of regional variations is more similar to the way we have different dialects in Chinese. So in Mandarin the word for eat is 吃 pronounced 'chī' but in Cantonese it is 'sek' and in Hokkien it is 'jiat'; the word for the day is "wall" in Spanish and my goodness, for a basic concept like a wall, you have four words: pared, barrera, muro and tapia but just to confuse me even further, they used the term 'fondo' instead of any of the four words we usually use for walls as they were referring to the wall as a background rather than a structure holding up the ceiling and I was left wondering, is there a fifth word for 'wall' that they use in Ecuador? That's the kind of challenge I face daily.
Here's another major factor in the equation: I'm already 46 years old. I'm not young, many people at my age would already be thinking about retiring within the next 15 years or so. That's why the concept of having to do more instead of less at this age is probably rather unusual - there is that myth that older people like me cannot learn new things. We're quite used to looking at bright young people being ready to learn at university or undergoing training in their first job in their 20s, but when it comes to further training for older people, it is a lot harder because we're battling challenges on two fronts. Firstly there's the bad attitude - older people are resistant to change, they feel embarrassed when being made to feel incompetent in whichever skill they are made to learn. Take learning a new language for example, a younger student doesn't mind or care so much if s/he is struggling on in a foreign language like a total beginner but an older adult might feel a lot more self-conscious about trying to order a meal in Spanish whilst struggling on with the basics of the language. Then there's a real problem with technology - even if you want to work as a delivery driver today, you have to learn how to pick up orders through an app on your mobile phone and if you are very old, you never grew up with that kind of technology so you would have to learn how to operate a smart phone to do that job. Whilst younger people would probably figure out how to use a new app in under a minute, a lot of older folks are totally useless when it comes to using modern technology. Hence it is a combination of those factors that makes it rare for an older person like me to find myself in this kind of position, having to adapt to a new environment and learn so much in a short time when most older people simply refuse to put themselves through that anymore, as some older people lack the confidence to learn anything new.
Thus the issue I have with my family, especially my parents, is that they have absolutely no idea just how hard my job is. I've been tasked with developing a business development strategy for El Salvador, a country that I have never set foot in and I have to establish my credibility with the locals there. No, I have never been there but I speak Spansh fluently and I know everything there is to know about your country. Being an outsider and a non-Latino, I often have to go above and beyond what is expected of Latinos who want to do business in Latin America to prove my Latino credentials. But the problem is that my parents have absolutely no idea what I do for a living, never mind try to understand some of the harder challenges I am facing whilst trying to prove myself as they use very rudimentary methods to judge if my work is hard - so for example, I told them that my working hours are flexible and given that I am six hours ahead of my head office in Peru, I have very quite mornings where I have a slow and lazy start. My colleagues are considerate enough not to expect me to jump on Zoom calls or participate in meetings in the evenings, so it's really the afternoon when our working days overlap and it can be quite busy from the period of 2:30 pm to 6 pm but otherwise, that's like me working half day. So based on that information, they think my job is "easy" based on the fact that I don't work stupidly long hours like most people in Singapore. However, trying to judge how difficult my job is purely based on my working hours is just wrong on so many levels - a delivery driver who is paid peanuts can be working crazy long hours just to earn enough money to pay the bills, but is his job "harder" than mine by that token? His job is definitely more horrible than mine but harder? And can that delivery driver do my job? No, of course not; very few people have my kind of technical knowledge.
But before I get too self-indulgent, please let me talk about this guy Martin who showed up at my gymnastics club recently. It was unreal how talented he was, it was his very first gymnastics lesson and I swear. All we had to do was to show him how to do a new trick and it would take him like three or four attempts to figure it out and then he'd be like, "I did it, what next?" I swear, most normal people would take at least several months at least to learn what he achieved in two hours. It was clear that for someone like Martin, he was naturally talented at gymnastics thus he was able to pick it those new skills effortlessly. So it wasn't a question of "is a forward hip circle a difficult skill?" I wouldn't describe it as a simple skill as your timing has to be just right - there is little margin for error on that skill but for someone like Martin, he was able to figure it out super quickly thus for him, no, it wasn't a difficult skill whilst for other beginners, they probably walked away thinking, "that skill would take me months, if not years to learn!" I don't even think Martin was even aware of the unfair advantage that his talent afforded him during that gymnastics lesson, but sometimes life just isn't fair like that. Thus in this case, even if the skill was hard, Martin didn't find it difficult at all whereas most other gymnastics would beg to differ. So with that in mind, is what I am doing at work really that difficult for me or am I picking up Spanish the same way Martin is picking up new skills in the gym with very little effort? Well, let's put it this way: if I didn't think I could pull this off then I wouldn't have accepted this job in the first place; but then again, I'm not exactly finding it easy either and with Martin, I was soon getting him to try some more advanced skills that he found difficult. I found the limits of his ability.
There's one thing I always do when my gymnasts have a good session: I'd encourage them to take a video and then share it on social media, so their friends can see what they've achieved. Let's say Martin shows his mates a video of him doing a back somersault and his friends would ask him, "so how long did it take you to learn that trick? Ten minutes? That fast? Oh then we should all try that as well if it is that easy." The fact that Martin learnt that skill in ten minutes doesn't mean that a back somersault is so easy that anyone can learn that skill in just ten minutes, rather it is a reflection on just how incredibly talented Martin is and it does frustrate me when people get that perspective wrong because in this case, you are depriving Martin of the credit he deserves by incorrectly perceiving that skill as 'easy' when it is not, far from it. Thus whilst as a gymnastics coach, I acknowledge the huge role that Martin's talent has played in process, nonetheless, I still would like to give him plenty of credit and many people just take for granted that oh that's Alex, he speaks many languages, he's a linguist so of course he can work in a Spanish-speaking work environment. Whilst I have the ability and talent to do that, it still doesn't mean I find it easy to operate at this level in Spanish. There's a huge difference between basic conversational Spanish that allows you to order a meal at a restaurant or buy a ticket at a train station and discussing a complex business strategy with my team entirely in Spanish. When you add in the fact that my Spanish is entirely self-taught, then it makes my achievement even more remarkable and my colleagues do realize that.
But I'm left in this situation with my family who just shrug their shoulders and think, yeah that's just what Alex does, he likes learning languages and it's easy for him - the same way they would look at a gymnast like Martin and just shrug their shoulders and say, yeah he's very talented, that's all really easy when you have that natural talent. I wonder if this is just some kind of coping mechanism by people who haven't achieved much - they simply dismiss the achievements of others by claiming that all these achievements were a result of some unfair advantage achieved through the genetic lottery and so these successful people are just 'lucky' that they can achieve all these amazing feats with ease and therefore we shouldn't give them any credit for simply being lucky. Now that's a really simplistic way of viewing a very complex situation - whilst it is clear that I have a gift for picking up languages but it doesn't just happen. I'm not picking it up passively by watching the news in Spanish and then magically absorbing all the content automatically - there is an insane amount of hard work that I put into learning Spanish on my own. Would someone who isn't as gifted in foreign languages be able to learn Spanish the way I do without a teacher? Probably, but it would take them much longer to achieve what I have done in a short period of time. Likewise, I think most gymnasts can probably achieve the same skills that Martin the super talented gymnast has mastered - it would just take them two years instead of two hours. Yes the bottom line is that life can be incredibly unfair and that's why some people react to the inherent unfair nature of life by dismissing the achievements of others by claiming "oh it's all too easy for them, they have the natural talent for it." But it sucks to be at the receiving end of that from my own family who have not even noticed what I have achieved in my job.
I'm left with no solutions with this frustrating situation with my family, what I have done instead is to speak to my friends from within the industry like JP - my friend JP runs his own company within the financial services industry and his company does business all over the world including in Africa, Asia and South America. Thus JP completely understands the kind of challenges that I am going through and the kind of conversations I have with him are completely different from the ones I would have with my family as we work in the same industry. The logical conclusion would be that I should really only talk to people like JP about work if I am after empathy, encourage or validation because he understands what I am going through whilst my family doesn't. I'd like to talk about my old friend 'Tan' - I got to know him back when we were in secondary school and like me, he also has very working class parents who were uneducated. Like JP, Tan is a business owner today and stunningly successful in his chosen field so as you can see, Tan and I do share a lot in common. So how does Tan relate to his completely uneducated working class parents? Well, they're happy enough that he is rich even if they have no idea what the hell he does for a living - Tan doesn't even try to explain it to them, it's way too completely for uneducated elderly folks to understand and both parties are happy to leave it at that. Tan is grateful for the way his parents worked hard to put him through school and university so that he could have all the opportunities they never had. Would Tan's uneducated parents say stupid ignorant crap that annoys him? Yes, of course they do, but I did speak to him about how he copes with this challenge and Tan pointed out to me that he has found a way to rationalize it.
He explained, "Alex, we are both very educated, intelligent people so whatever we do has got to make sense to us, there has got to be a reason, a logic. So when dealing with our uneducated parents who say stupid, ignorant things, we cannot default to being Chinese and pretend that everything they say is somehow wise and correct when clearly, it is not. The way I deal with it is by being thankful that I didn't end up like that: you and I have the same kind of poor, Singaporean-Chinese, very working class background but we both attained social mobility againt the odds because we turned out to be a lot more intelligent than our parents. It's just the IQ lottery, we got lucky and I don't take that for granted because I have a brother who wasn't that lucky and you will be amazed how similar he is to my parents today in so many aspects. Thus I channel any frustration when my parents say stupid things to pure gratitude that I didn't turn out like them or my brother. Many people in our culture would perceive that 'gratitude' to filial piety, like I'm such a good son who is forever grateful to my parents for the way they had brought me up - it's not the same but you know the difference, I have the right to reconcile that in my head on my own terms, not the terms as dictated by some age-old Chinese cultural tradition. We don't get to choose our parents: they could be ignorant, uneducated, stubborn, unreasonable and often just a fucking pain to deal with. I don't agree with the way a lot of Chinese children feel the need to put them on a pedestal and ignore their faults - we're lucky in that our intellect gives us a way to cope with this kind of situation on our own terms, I can't stress that enough: on our own terms. Fuck whatever the Chinese concept of filial piety is, fuck that shit; this is my family, my challenges, my problems and thus I am finding my solutions on my own terms. It's not perfect, but that's how I cope."
It's not like I'm looking for any kind of validation from my parents - they have no concept of what I do for a living anyway so even if they forced themselves to say something nice like, "we're proud of what you have achieved", I would reply, "how can you be proud of what I have achieved when you have no idea what I have achieved?" No, instead I speak to friends like JP and Tan with whom I can have a more meaningful conversation about my career. It does feel sad though that this is the state of my relationship with my parents; on one of my trips back to Singapore, I witnessed how my father spoke to one of his friends and I swear it was bizarre watching two older, working class people have that conversation and I didn't say a word, I couldn't participate without being disrespectful as the only thought in my head was, "I'm shocked at how stupid the two of you are, this is what happens when two uneducated people talk to each other." You know the way adults talk to very young children about 3 or 4 years old? They use very simple words, repeat themselves to make sure the child understands and I felt like the only way I could possibly join in that conversation was if I spoke the same way. I do wonder if Tan indulges his parents the same way by indulging them in their ignorane and stupidity, suspending any kind of judgment in the process in order to facilitate some kind of communication? Or does he simply say, "I'm educated, you're not and I'm here to save you from your own stupidty. There's a pandemic and you don't even know how to take care of yourself so it's time for me to be the adult in this relationship." Or is there a compromise somewhere between those two extremes then? Have you ever been in this type of situation and how would you cope?
So there you go, that's it from me on this topic. It's so hard to talk to other people about this topic unless you are very close friends, such as in the case of Tan. Most people would avoid the topic out of either embarrassment (as you can't possibly be proud of your parents being uneducated) or respect for their parents because they want to spare their parents of any possible embarrassment associated with being so uneducated. There might be other instances where children simply go into denial about the topic by finding other older folks who are even more uneducated to try to assure themselves that things are still okay, "whilst my parents are not graduates, they're not completely illiterate and they're not completely hopeless. I've also met older folks who are even more stupid and out of touch with the modern world." Hence this topic just gets swept under the carpet time and time again as nobody wants to talk about it. So where does this leave us? I leave that question to you, please let me know your thoughts: are you more educated than your parents? How do you deal with the transition from being a child when your parents knew more than you to the point as an adult, when you realize that you're far more intelligent, educated and experienced in dealing with the modern world than your parents? Why do Asian people in particular default to offering the older generation respect whether or not they deserve it or not? Is this purely a matter of being sensitive and tactful when it comes to older people who feel bewildered in the modern world run by technology that they are completely unfamiliar with? Please leave a comment below and many thanks for reading.
Hey Alex. I actually know a person who is a scientist with a PhD in quantum physics who has a very working class Chinese-Malaysian father who thinks his son is a disappointment only because he isn't a medical doctor. This father doesn't even bother to understand what his son does, probably because quantum physics takes more effort to understand than the concept of healing the sick. Surprise surprise, they don't have a good relationship, yet the son hasn't kicked the father out of his life completely due to Chinese "filial piety", but otherwise hates his guts. You're not alone haha. I wouldn't even say it's the problem of being working class, my roommate's parents are both illiterate and live in India but are very supportive of her pursuing a PhD in the biological sciences. They just have a loving relationship with empathy and understanding even though their life situations are different. Also many rich parents are also cruel and unloving, and have no idea what their children do. I knew a rich girl whose father was a mathematician who doesn't even care about her career because she pursued engineering instead of math. Some people just aren't capable of love/empathy, regardless of their income level.
ReplyDeleteWell to become an ordinary GP, you don't need to be that qualified compared to say if you're going to become a brain surgeon or cancer specialist, but I know why Chinese parents are obsessed with doctors. For my very working class parents, they don't have friends who are graduates or professionals - their friends are (sorry if this is blunt) just as uneducated and dumb. However, we all have our family GP Dr Quek and Dr Quek was put on a pedestal as if he was some kind of next level genius. For so many years, he was the most intelligent person my parents knew. They would say things to me like, "if you don't believe me, ask Dr Quek!" I'm like duh no disrespect to Dr Quek, he's a GP. I have friends who are far more qualified and intelligent thank you. Don't get me wrong, Dr Quek is a very nice person who has served his community very well over the years as a GP, but he's not some kind of genius at the top of the food chain. Anyway, I have friends like JP, Tan and you Amanda, that's what matters and the fact that I have someone to talk to about this is good enough for me, I have friends who understand me. That's all I want.
DeleteLol it is so Asian to put doctors on a pedestal! But that's only because doctors are the only educated people a working class person will ever come across, and doctors have to be nice to keep their customers coming back. A working class person will hardly ever talk to a scientist, lawyer, banker, engineer, film director, etc. And even if they did, the other party probably won't be as polite and understanding as a GP. Yeah its good to find friends who understand. By the way, I myself am baffled how you manage to translate technical heavy banking documents between three different languages. I can't even do science in BI, my second language. I hope you're getting paid really big bucks to do that! The only people I know who can do that had parents who were expats that relocated between a few different countries when they were growing up.
DeleteYes, looking at my parents' situation and how they put the family GP on a pedestal, well it was pretty obvious why - Dr Quek was the only really educated person they would ever know, even if their visits with him are irregular (well, we only saw him when we were sick). I remember going to see him as a kid, he would ask the same few questions like, "how old are you now? How's school? How's your results? Tell me what's wrong with you, how long have you had those symptoms?" I don't even think he remembers his hundreds, even thousands of patients as it's literally, "time is money, there is a waiting room full of sick patients and I'm going to spend an average of 2 mins 40 seconds with each patient." I don't even think he remembers my parents by name and it's not like parents would ever have a meal with Dr Quek and be social with him - he doesn't have that kind of relationship with his patients; I imagine he just wanted to relax, have some quiet me time or time with his family when he's not so busy working. But even with those super brief, irregular interactions with my parents, that's more than enough for my parents to put Dr Quek on a pedestal. Ironically, as my parents got older, they needed to see more doctors for a range of different medical conditions (such is the nature of old age) and thus now, Dr Quek is not the only intelligent person they know!
DeleteAs for translating technical terms, I can function with ease in French, Mandarin and English - I was on a call with a Singaporean today and I kept speaking in Mandarin and he was like, wow I don't even know those terms in Chinese as we tend to just use English in Singapore. It's like if I learn it once, I will remember it. So fixed income = renta fija in Spanish, I know that translation. But it's not that hard as I already know the word for fixed in Spanish which is fija, hence everything does make sense to me in French and Mandarin as I am already fluent in those languages but Spanish is the one that I struggle with more as it is my fourth language. It's not at the same level as my French and Mandarin - the key difference is that I have studied French and Chinese formally, but my Spanish is entirely self-taught. But I try harder than most people, that's why I think I get further than most people.
I do sometimes struggle a bit with the false friends - even Spanish speakers like to insert random English words into their speech and it's not always the same meaning as in English. Another way they say fixed income in Peru and Ecuador is 'capital rent' which are two English words which definitely do not mean 'fixed income' in English when put together like that. When I see two English words like that in the sentence, I think, ah English yes yes yes hang on what the hell does that mean? I even went as far as to query why they used the words 'capital rent' when they mean 'renta fija' in Spanish - they said, "oh we like English words, we play with English as it is fun and cool." Well using English words like that only completely confuses me further - welcome to my world.
DeleteDr. Quek sounds like a very nice doctor, some of the doctors I've met in Sg are just "what are your symptoms? Here is the medicine, have a good day." Sure it's superficial, but it does make one feel a little better while feeling ill.
DeleteLol "capital rent" sounds nothing like "fixed income" in English. But then again even in Bahasa they make up words from English which don't mean the same thing in actual English. It might as well just be a new word in that language itself. Sometimes in Singapore and Singlish I come across words that would never be used in English. Things like "I catch no ball" is a way of saying "I don't understand" but comes from the Hokkien phrase for saying you don't understand.
By the way, when you say fixed income, does that mean you specialize in financial products that pay out a fixed dividend per month or per year compared to a product which pays a fixed percentage interest, or can go up/down with the market?
It's not uncommon that English words become corrupted in meaning when brought into another language - in Korean, they use the word 'service' in a way that's completely different. So if you have a big meal in a Korean restaurant, they might throw in some drinks or a desert for free - that's called 'service', which means, "it's on the house, it's free, you've already spent so much money, let me offer you something in return." So if you tell the waitress, oh I didn't order those drinks/that desert, she would reply, "this is service". Which makes no sense as you think you recognize the English word 'service' but not in this context. But none are as bad as in French, when there's a whole bunch of English words that are badly butchered, one of my favourites would have to be 'lifting' or le lifting - it means facelift (plastic surgery). But when I hear lifting, I think of either a lift which I take to go upstairs/downstairs in a building or the act of lifting a box, not a face lift, nose job, plastic surgery. Go figure.
DeleteAs for fixed income, yeah so a fixed income product can be a bond, a loan note, etc and if it pays 10% a year, that means you get that 10% a year regardless of whether or not the company issuing the bond/loan note will be legally obliged to pay that. The good news is that even if they make less than 10% a year, they still have to pay you what's on the contract of your investment product. The bad news is that if they make a lot more money than that, they don't share it with you - you only get that 10% a year as stipulated in the legal contract.
Lol English has become so widespread a language it must be jarring to any English speaker to see it used in other languages like that. Lifting sounds a little okay, because you are lifting a face or piece of flesh against gravity, but service sounds like something that isn't free.
DeleteAhh okay so you specialize in bonds and other things that are hedges against the market going badly, but not shorts. Is business booming lately because of market uncertainty? I'd assume people turn to bonds when stocks have been going down instead of up. Also, is this why you mention pension funds sometimes? I think they prefer a fixed income over a young person who still has a job and just wants their money to grow rather than pay out immediately.
Another pet hate of mine is 'baskets' in French. Now we all know what a basket is in English but baskets in French = trainers (ie. sports shoes). The reason being they were associated with basketball players and hence the shoes were called 'baskets' which make no sense at all given that most people were sports shoes/trainers to do a whole range of activities rather than just play basketball.
DeleteThere's always a constant demand for fixed income products as a segment of the market will always want to have peace of mind when it comes to knowing exactly what their investments will do in the long run rather than worry if the stock market is gonna go boom or bust tomorrow, next week, next month etc.
Lol "baskets" is really funny because I'd never be able to get the link between that and shoes. Another funny false friend I've heard of is "glass" in Swedish, which is their word for ice cream. So it's funny when Swedes may ask an English speaking person if they want to eat glass, it's not an insult haha.
DeleteYeah I presume the ultra high net worth individuals would also like fixed income products because they're more concerned with preserving their wealth sustainably rather than growing it per se. My university also hires new students from mathematics or economics to work in an in-house team to manage their endowment. But they have so much money (almost 10 billion I think), they're more concerned with getting a steady guaranteed 5% return every year rather than trying to go for a higher increase, which they do through alumni donations.
Well glass is Swedish comes from glace in French, which also means ice cream or ice. But I guess they use the French word as French is fancy, but spelt it phonetically as glace is pronounced glass in French. But yeah "basket" (the S is silent in baskets in French) is just ridiculous. BTW, did you read the comment left on one of my earlier posts (love vs duty) by a Singaporean woman who had the most horrific reaction from her in-laws after she had a miscarriage? It was fucking horrific the abuse she got and she is quite resigned to the fact that there's just zero love left with the in-laws, just a sense of duty to keep talking to them as they're a part of the family. What gives? What's the point? Like who needs enemies if that's the kind of people in your family?
DeleteOh, so glass is like glace as in demi-glace. Yeah French used to be the lingua franca when they still had a monarchy, I think Marie Antoinette even had a Swedish lover at some point. I just finished reading the story on that previous post. What the hell... way to rub salt in a wound by saying it was a woman's fault she miscarried. Sounds like something only uneducated people who don't understand how biology works would say.
DeleteMy opinion on the matter is that when you have such uneducated poor people, they've spent a lifetime just trying to survive at a basic level, e.g making enough money and trying to stretch that dollar as far as possible to keep from starving or becoming homeless, that they had no time to develop any skills for other pursuits. They had no time to learn how to knit a sweater, play soccer, and more importantly get people to talk to you and get people to like you. The thing about Singapore is that extremely rapid development has largely eradicated extreme poverty in the country within only a couple generations. So you have people who suddenly have free time to think and enjoy themselves beyond just working for their next meal, and they have absolutely no fucking clue what to do with that extra time. A friend of mine told me some scientists did a study where they took some bonobos from the wild and put them in a zoo where suddenly food was plentiful and there were no predators, and instead of relaxing and getting along the bonobos started making each other miserable by stealing each other's food and picking fights. In contrast, creatures like Elephants who are raised their entire lives with plentiful food and no predators form peaceful cooperative societies with good social relations, such that they even hold funerals when they lose any member of their social group.
Honestly though, who the hell calls 999 in order to get attention from their family? In the West the doctor would immediately send that person to some mental facility for psychotherapy, and maybe even place them on suicide watch. In the East it's just "oh yeah, that's my family... it's a shitshow..."
Well feel free to join in the conversation I am having with her on that other thread. I think she's a bit older than you but younger than me. You're a strong, independent Asian woman who isn't trapped in that horrible culture - you're free to pursue what you want. I think you can inspire her to see that there is an alternative to what she is putting up with, that there is light at the end of the tunnel but she has got to start walking in the right direction first.
DeleteOn your point, yeah I understand how such poor, uneducated working class people function as I was brought up in such a poor family. I can see things from their point of view but I have modified my behaviour since I have grown up and made my own money which allowed me to lead a totally different kind of lifestyle - one focused on finding joy and fulfillment rather than surviving from day to day. That change of mindset requires quite a huge paradigm shift but thankfully it wasn't hard for me to do that. Those who fail to make that shift will end up with the situation where you're left with a miserable shit show.
DeleteYeah I think your suggestion of moving to a Western country with a more robust social welfare system that is supportive of working mothers is terrific. Singapore is over-reliant on family for things like childcare or even housing. I notice in some workplaces in Singapore which hire a lot of foreigners and pay a lot(e.g academia) there are things like on-site daycare, generous maternity leave, and even subsidized housing, but this is not accessible to most average citizens. But things are changing I suppose. I think if Singapore doesn't institute some type of welfare policy or reduced work hours they'll have an aging crisis like Japan.
DeleteIt does take a mindset shift. I've seen a lot of people lifted out of poverty after doing a PhD and getting into a highly paid job, and they've had to adjust their relationship with time and money entirely. For example my roommate told me this is the first time she's had extra money to save and invest, and asked me about the stock market. And then she asked "what if the market crashes tomorrow and I lose all my money?" I had to explain that is possible but unlikely, and that she can invest in bonds or diversify her portfolio to mitigate that risk. But the concept of "relax, you are safe", is very alien to people who just exited poverty.
Y'know Alex, when I hear this statement "you're a strong, independent Asian woman who isn't trapped in that horrible culture - you're free to pursue what you want", it makes me think "only within the confines of reality, sadly." Lately I've been struggling a lot with "loneliness", particularly with the fact that I make certain sacrifices that not a lot of my peers do. I sacrifice weekends to study quantum computing because I think it will give me an edge over the competition and lead to a better career after graduate school, while my peers go out drinking or see their friends. Sure, my choice leads to a recruiter from London offering me a job paying 5 figures a month and sponsoring a visa to immigrate to the UK, which many people in Singapore would kill for. But it does come at a cost to my social life... You talk a lot on this blog about "how to be successful", but you don't really talk about the sacrifices one has to make to be really successful and how to adjust your life to these sacrifices without being too much of an alien from ones' peers. But I guess you're at a stage in your career where you have more free time, so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor more. Meanwhile, I'm still starting out. So it's not true I can pursue whatever I want, maybe 5-10 years from now.
DeleteI think a lot of that depends on what kind of character you are - I look back at the time I trained as a gymnast. It's a solo sport as opposed to basketball, football or volleyball where you play as a team. I am very used to being a lone wolf, it suits my character, I am anti-social, I don't like other people. That's why I am suited to sports where I can be left on my own and not have to deal with others as well as roles in the company where I can be given a project to handle on my own without having to deal with team work. It's the same way I study languages, I mastered so many languages on my own, studying with the internet, absorbing huge volumes of information on my own whilst some people prefer learning languages with classmates and teachers, in a more social environment. Thus it's not like I'm lonely per se, I'm quite happy to be left on my own and when I crave social interaction, I reach out to people whom I wanna talk to, interactive with and I do so at a time which suits me.
DeleteAsk yourself this: what do you want from your peers? Attention? Empathy? Understanding? Company? Sex? Like you say you're lonely, but what do you really want to deal with that loneliness? I had this woman recently in the gymnastics club who gave me a long rant about how gymnastics scares her and she is struggling with the fear - I think she wanted attention and sympathy but I just shrugged my shoulders and said, "you're doing the wrong sport, pick another sport that doesn't cause you this much anxiety and you'll enjoy it more." It wasn't the response she wanted but she was barking up the wrong tree. I get it, there is a problem you've labeleld as loneliness but I am now challenging you to be very precise about what you think the solution is. You've been guilty of not being precise with your needs before (remember "surprise me"?) well I would like you to elucidate exactly what you think you need right now.
There's a huge difference between "I'm hungry" and "I'm really craving for some fried chicken now" - the latter means you know exactly what solution you need for your problem whereas "I'm hungry" still means you don't know what to do about the situation - I'm a pragmatic problem solver and that's part of what I do for my job. So Amanda, I'm challenging you to put your finger on exactly what you think you would like to deal with this loneliness issue.
DeleteHey Alex. That's a very pragmatic way to think about it. I guess I focus too much on "oh people say I have it good but I have problems other people don't, blah blah blah, woe is me..." I suppose I just want people who I have things in common with (gymnastics, videogames, etc.), who can somewhat understand that I have problems too without reverting to thinking I have it good. At work, all my coworkers talk about is their career problems, but when I talk about mine it's like I'm an alien or something. Different problems I suppose. But this is work, there are a billion other places to find people, I shouldn't be so concerned I don't fit in in one particular place. Maybe other people are content to have a limited social life. My coworkers actually don't have time for other social activities since they're very tired after work, which is a little sad when I think about it. But I have the freedom to go out off hours, so I should take advantage of that instead of saying "oh the solution that other people are using isn't working for me."
DeleteHmm... yeah I dunno why I'm very precise about my needs when it comes to my career, but very imprecise with regards to everything else. In my career I can go "I need the fastest algorithm to process stock market data, so I will use a quantum computer instead of a normal one", but in my personal life I don't apply the same amount of thinking. Well, thanks for being a sounding board, I think I know what to do now. Every problem needs a tailor-made solution, even if it's a personal one.
Hi Amanda, I have this pragmatic mindset as it is my approach to work. Client A wants to open a bank account in Dubai but the banks in Dubai won't allow a non-resident foreigner to open that kind of bank account, so what can I do for this client? So I went back to the client and said, okay I know what you want but can you explain to me why that bank account in Dubai is so important to you? What do you wish to achieve with this bank account in Dubai? What problem are you facing now that you think the bank account in Dubai would solve? Anyway, long story short, I found out the real reason why the client wanted that bank account in Dubai and I was like right, you can do the same thing through a Mauritian or Singaporean bank account. I'm being paid a LOT of money to solve problems like that in the banking world but if I simply focused on the problem "how to open a bank account for a non-resident foreigner in Dubai" then I would get nowhere as I'm at the mercy of the local laws which aren't on my side. But I can still make the client happy if I use my approach and solve their problems, albeit with an alternative solution, not the one they thought of originally. So if I may apply that same problem solving approach to you Amanda, can we identify what you think is missing from your social life and how we can plug that gap? Is this something you can do for yourself by proving something to yourself - ie. set yourself a goal, achieve it and then be able to say "see Amanda? You did this, you conquered this goal!" Or is this something that another person can give you - are you looking for validation, empathy or understanding? Sometimes we just have to take a step back and imagine we're a consultant hired to solve our own problems and detach ourselves from our emotions when analyzing our situation.
DeleteThat's a very interesting analogy. I guess your job isn't just to listen to the client's instructions and move heaven and earth to open a bank account in Dubai, but to ask them what goal they are trying to achieve in their personal/professional life and attack that. Lol I will try to be my own personal problem consultant and see what can be done.
DeleteAnyway, I brought this up because I had a zoom call a few days ago with the scientist from my very first comment on this post. He's about to retire in 5 years, while I'm just starting my career(and my adult life), and he tells me I've achieved a lot more than him at a similar age. But then he talks about his family and what is going on with his teenage sons, and I had to tell him I had two relationships end up in breakups this year, while I know he has only ever been with one woman whom he's known for 30 years. But comparing ourselves to each other does nobody any favors. Everyone has their own unique problems, there is no one-size fits all solution to either.
Oh please Amanda, anyone can have a family - if you lower your standards enough, you can certainly find a man who will marry you tomorrow but will you be happy with him? Of course not. That's why it is better to hold out with your higher standards than to compromise like so many people who marry and settle down out of a sense of duty whilst putting aside the notions of true love and happiness. If your colleague is happy with his family, good for him but please don't compare yourself to him. You don't need to do what he does. I found this out a long time ago as a gay man who was never ever gonna do what everyone else does - thus I was always challenged to think far more independently in this aspect of 'what do I want, what will make me happy'.
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DeleteI do worry that women always feel as if being single means that they are unwanted, undesired, left on the shelf because no man will want to marry her but that's quite an unfair way of looking at the situation. When I see my peers with children (remember I am 46, if I had a 16 year old son, I would've had him at the age of 30 and that's totally normal), I don't actually feel like I am missing out at all. I feel bad for them. Let me tell you about my friend Julie who is in her 40s, she used to come to gymnastics and then she disappeared. I ran into her and asked her where she has been - she said sorry I can't do the Sunday class anymore as I have to take my daughter to her dance class instead and the schedule clashes. Having children means putting their needs instead of your own and that's why I do gymnastics on a Sunday whilst Julie is her daughter's driver on a Sunday - you should NOT feel envious of your colleague who has children, in fact I really feel sorry for Julie as she does enjoy gymnastics very much but is duty bound to put her daughter's needs first.
DeleteYeah I know there will always be other men, and if I was that desperate I'd just settle for one who loves me but someone I don't love. It's far harder to find someone I love who loves me, and doesn't come with a list of terrible problems. That reminds me, a couple months ago I had to reject this tall, blonde, blue eyed, handsome, rich, very nice guy who took me to a very expensive restaurant on the 2nd date. He was a perfectly good guy, absolute gentleman, I just didn't feel anything and felt very terrible to reject him. I was talking to my best friend about this, we were like "even if you're as pretty and rich as Beyonce, that doesn't make you immune to heartbreak. It just makes it easier to go on first dates, but by date number 10 it's just a normal relationship with normal issues." We said this because we have this one friend who has difficulty attracting women on Tinder and getting matches who is like "oh it's so easy for you two, you get so many matches, life is perfect!" No it isn't!
DeleteActually funny thing about that colleague, in undergrad he thought I was hopping from guy to guy instead of committing to just one. Well yeah, I don't feel something for every guy I meet and vice versa, so I have to repeat the search when things don't work out. I mean he seems happy in his marriage, but at the same time he makes it sound like she was the only option, so maybe he's only happy with his choice because he has no other choices to compare it to.
Yeah I get people would say that to me... like "why do you want a family when you can just enjoy being a banker having lots of money, travel, and hobbies?" I dunno, maybe I just like the concept of love and having a happy family. I really like dogs, so I don't mind taking care of a living being besides myself. I get it will be a big lifestyle change, and if I struggle with loneliness now that will probably get even worse if I'm always stuck at home with kids after work. I dunno, we'll see. I'd say I'll decide whether to cross that bridge when I get there.
I'm just going to point out one thing for you to think about but it's a very important point: many people who marry out of loneliness don't even love themselves, but they think that they will feel better if they have a spouse/partner who loves them and can then fill that gap in their souls where they feel empty. I think that's really wrong as we have to ask ourselves: why don't we love yourselves? Why do we think we're not even worthy of self-love? Love with another person is a complex equation but when you're dealing with yourself then you just have to be honest with yourself. If you think there's something about yourself that you don't like, which stops you from truly loving yourself, then you need to fix it yourself instead of hoping for someone to come along and solve your problem. Some problems can be solved by others (like calling a plumber to fix that leak in your kitchen) but other problems can only be solved by yourself and hoping for someone to come along and solve it for you is only going to delay the healing.
DeleteI used to have this best friend in undergrad, and I think I've mentioned her before. Anyway, she was obsessed with having a child who would love her back, because her parents didn't love her. But like you said, she clearly didn't love herself and was using the future child to fill that void. So in undergrad she forced herself to date this guy whom she didn't love but he agreed to settle down and have a family together after graduation. Well he cheated on her, I told her to break up with him, but she took him back and it ended up killing our friendship as a result. At the time, I had no idea why she chained herself to this jerk when half the guys in our batch were professing their love to her. But then I realized she's avoiding love because she doesn't want to risk being heartbroken. I knew her dad didn't love her, so being a child expecting that love and not getting it is the very definition of heartbreak, why add more heartbreak on top of that in dating?
DeleteBut anyway, I'm avoiding the question of what is my reason. I suppose I'm just not over the guy from earlier this year, and I'm just trying to find anyone to fill that void. But maybe I should just get over him and enjoy living single again.
Hmm Alex, you've actually made me realize something about myself. With regards to relationships, I frequently make moves not because I want to be happy, but only because I don't want to be sad. I avoid romantic affection like the plague, and the only time I pursue a guy is when I lurk around him long enough that I don't want to see him with anyone else. Then when I do go out dating, it's to get over someone who's hurt me. Contrast that with an activity like gymnastics or boardgames or quantum computing. It wouldn't make me sad not to do gymnastics, I'm nursing an injury right now but I don't feel like I'd die if I didn't go back immediately. But when I do go to gymnastics I'm very happy, and although I could get another injury and be out for a few more months again, I'm not too fussed over it.
DeleteThat's the attitude I need to have towards doing anything, not just "do it because you can't help it and you don't want to be sad for not doing it." Okay, next week, I'm just going to have fun with my two scheduled dates. No serious expectations, no sadness, just fun. Then I'm going to go to gymnastics and see if my shoulder has healed enough to come back, and maybe go back to the gym to gain back the muscle I lost while nursing the injury, etc. I used to wonder why aren't you messed up with regards to dating given the kind of parents you have. But it's because you treat it as a fun thing to do, while I treat it as a reactionary defensive thing to do. If I had that attitude towards my career, like just doing because I'm scared of starvation, then I'd be way more miserable and not get anywhere.
Oh Amanda, I have avoided this topic on my blog till now as it's too personal but since this is buried deep in the comments section, I'll share this with you. When you talked about dating and my parents, you realize I have two sisters right? One is married and the mother of my nephew - the other one is single and that's my eldest sister. I'm the youngest and with my middle sister, we have talked about it - we know that my parents have traumatized my eldest sister to the point where she cannot form relationships. It is a classic case of if you can't love yourself then how the hell are you going to love someone else? I think my parents just expected her to 'do her duty' by lowering her standards far enough to marry a nasty man just to tick the box and say, I did my duty but thankfully, my sister was strong enough to say I don't want a relationship like that. So my middle sister rebelled a little and I just went all out to totally revolt.
DeleteIt is a personal topic to discuss... I mean that scientist I talked about, we had a falling out in my final year of undergrad over this stuff specifically. He was basically telling me "Why can't you commit to this wonderful guy? Why do you treat him so coldly?" and I made up a bunch of baffling excuses, but I never once thought to tell him "because my mom is a narcissist and I'm scared of getting my heart broken." I only tell that to other people who I know also have horrible parents, like yourself.
DeleteY'know, this is where I really envy gay people sometimes. In the gay community, there is way less emphasis on "duty", and more emphasis on just being yourself and being happy. If only straight people could co-opt that. Because Singaporean society doesn't accept you anyway, you can just do whatever you want because it's not like appeasing them will do you much good.
Y'know Alex, your parents may be terrible, neglectful, and say horrible things, but at least from what you've described, they're "simpletons." Simpletons are at least predictable even if annoying. My mother has some semblance of an IQ, so she can also manipulate people with lies. People even say I get my scientific abilities from her, since my father is terrible at maths, and my mom used to be a doctor before marrying a rich man. That does take some IQ to engineer such a cushy life for herself! Too bad she doesn't use it for anything else aside from terrorizing her family (husband, children, siblings, parents, even cousins included). It's the lies and manipulation that I fear the most more than anything else when getting into a relationship. But anyway, I'm tired of playing "defense" when it comes to relationships, and I have to start playing "offense" like you do. At least I'm relatively young, and I can decide what to do with the next 50+ years of my life.
DeleteAmanda, you need to let go of the baggage from he past and free yourself to pursue the kind of happiness you desire and deserve, without the mistakes of the past generation holding you back. We both share the fate that we have been let down by our parents; we can't help but feel angry at times over what has happened, but you need to come to terms with what has happened (on your own terms of course) and set the ground for moving on with your life.
DeleteYeah, it's crazy considering what I had to deal with. It hurts me more when I meet a stranger who is really aggressive over small things than most people, and that's what makes me not want to meet new people. But yeah, I gotta deal with it and process it.
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DeleteFirst of all, I humbly apologize if this comment comes across as a rude invasion of your privacy given the solemn nature of these personal sharings. Aside from the abundance of wisdom to be gleaned from how you’ve rationally dealt with so many hurdles in life, I found great value in the discussion on relationships.
I’ve struggled with the exploration of my sexuality in the past few years, trapped between societal/family expectations and the polarizing views espoused by online communities. There was always something gnawing deep within me, telling me that I did not have to conform unquestioningly to the rigid concepts of love and family which were taught to me from young.
Here’s an incident which occurred years ago, one which will be forever be etched in my memory, which illustrates my situation. I was from a single-sex school (I’m AMAB) and naturally this meant uninhibited discussions of homosexuality, albeit in demeaning and stereotypical fashion. One of the more common pranks that befell me was the one where a friend would type “I’m very gay” into the family chat group. In my unfortunate case, this included members of my extended family as ,until recently, I was living in a multigenerational household. Mind you, this might sound trivial but I was only 14 at the time. A young teen with raging hormones and a blissful lack of romantic experience, who was fed the mantra of “No girlfriend until Uni[versity]” up till that point.
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DeleteI was not met with a deathly silence which in hindsight would have been preferable. No, I was met with near-instant responses like “Ni You Shen Jing Bing Ma? (Are you fucking delusional?)”, “Ni Gao Shen Me Gui? Bu Yao Hu Shuo Ba Dao! (What shit are you trying to pull? Stop talking nonsense!)”, and “WitheredRose, are you okay?” It was quite a mixed bag of responses, ranging from disbelief to disappointment, from concern to outright accusations of my mental instability. As if the family lineage was quaking, crumbling under the threat of extinction. The complex duties and responsibilities of family indirectly heaped onto the shoulders of a young teen.
Nowadays I view that comedic episode through a more nuanced, mature lens. But beneath that will always lie the undertones of intolerance and sadness. How would a closeted (I’m bisexual) young me have known what to feel? To react? I remember gritting my teeth through it all, chuckling and explaining the situation away as just a joke that was played on me. But underneath that facetious act I began questioning my own sense of worth as an individual, who has a duty not only to himself but to his family and to society. Just how far was I willing to sacrifice a part of me to please my family? Just how long can I keep up this facade to blend in to society? And thus I turned to the internet for salvation.
I realize I’ve been rambling on for quite a bit and I’m sure LIFT has more important things to do than to accost, let alone read, the blathering of an immature reader who’s only just gone through the first stages of his life. Hence I shall keep this section short on the off-chance that some kindred spirit out there does face a similar situation. The internet. It’s divisive, polarizing, full of echo chambers, many ways of describing the same fucking problem. I’m under no illusion that I’m some wise sage impervious to fallacies and misconceptions, but I’m not an idiot and so filtering, processing, and reflecting on what I peruse online has become second nature to me. But sooner or later that filter starts clogging up with dust and particles (just like the air conditioning unit in your room). I was met with so much toxic gatekeeping in an uncomfortable environment plagued with possible groomers, and circle-jerking “discussions” festering with unified hatred for those who had a different opinion. No room for compromise, no headspace for nuance.
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DeleteFor years I’ve felt like the walls were closing in on me. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, no one to confide in. (School Psychologist was out of the question as I was already well acquainted with her through helping some of my friends overcome suicidal thoughts, depression, etc. Couldn’t fuck up my image am I right? haha… ha… sigh) I’ve sort of put it all aside since then, too preoccupied with other priorities and pleasures in life. That was until today, when as Fate would have it, I chanced upon this earnest discussion in the comment section of a blogpost. I guess it took viewing life, not just relationships, from the perspective of learned, cosmopolitan adults to finally realize who I wanted to be. To understand that I have the agency to act upon my own inclinations and dreams and to live with as few regrets as possible. I owe my family greatly for the privileged upbringing I’ve been blessed to have, but I do not owe them my identity and my livelihood which is mine to define and forge ahead with.
Maybe I wish I chanced upon this blog sooner. This blog brimming with wisdom and knowledge conveyed through the raw exchanges of vulnerability in something as seemingly mundane as a comments section. Or perhaps this came to me at the right time, at a pivotal moment in my life when I’ll have to make significant, nigh irreversible decisions of my own accord.
Nevertheless, LIFT and Amanda, you have my heartfelt gratitude for shining a little light of guidance in my life. For exposing your deepest insecurities and vexations to the eyes of countless strangers before me. It’s difficult to pen down just how meaningful it’s been reading all of this.
As a new reader, I’ll be following this blog and browsing the archives for more :)
Note: I apologize for not value-adding to the discussion, as I feel unqualified to do so. This is merely a comment to show my sincere appreciation as stated above :)
I am no expert, but I used to volunteer as befriender of the elderly pre-covid. How i talk to older, uneducated working-class people is simple. I ask them questions to prompt them, once they got talking they could go on for hours, so I just sit there and listen, but active listening with prompts in-between.
ReplyDeleteHold your horses, i merely mentioned talking to old people. I never asked you to engage with your parents. Yes, your parents are old people but as my Physics teacher used to say, "有鬍子的不都是你爸爸“. Which literally translates to not all those with moustache are your father.
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