Tuesday, 8 June 2021

As histórias de viagens 1: Giving people the benefit of the doubt

Hi guys, the last piece was quite technical, exploring what it was like to travel to Portugal during a pandemic with all of these restrictions - in this piece, I am going to go back to what I enjoy writing about which is to share with you some of the social interactions I've had with the locals during this trip. I love meeting people when I travel, that's one aspect of holidays that I enjoy the most. I would like to contrast two experiences I have had in Portugal, both relating to restaurants/cafes. In the first story, I was at the Riberia in Porto - this is the most touristy spot of Porto where you have loads of nice restaurants facing the waterfront, offering spectacular views. I would compare it to Boat Quay in Singapore, except of course the views are even more stunning and the weather is so much better. Prices there are typically higher than other restaurants in town where the locals eat but I thought, why the hell not - I'm on holiday, I want a nice experience and I'll have one dinner there. The food wasn't too bad but it wasn't that great either but the restaurant made a mistake with the bill - you see, we took the set menu of a starter + main course + desert + coffee for a fixed price and the waiter who brought us our bill charged us for the coffees which were supposed to be a part of the set menu. Normally this will be the kind of mistake I would try to rectify on the spot - but do allow me to explain what happened that evening. 

There is an 11 pm Covid-curfew in Portugal so the restaurants needed to get everyone out before 11 pm or risk a fine if we had remained on the premises a minute after 11 pm. However, the staff were quite disorganized - at exactly 10:53 pm, they made an announcement that they needed everyone to pay up and get out before 11 pm, giving us exactly 7 minutes to finish what we were doing, settle our bill and leave. I needed to use the washroom so my husband paid up whilst I went to the toilet but when I got back, I realized that we were overcharged for the coffees which were supposed to have been a part of the set menu. I tried to speak to a member of staff but all she would say to me was, "you must leave now, please go down the stairs." I tried to look for the waiter who made the mistake with the bill but he was nowhere to be found. The situation was downright chaotic - I was trying really hard to find that particular waiter whilst every other member of staff was pleading with me to evacuate the building at once. My husband said, "it's just 3 euros, leave it, it's not a big deal." But for me, it was more a matter of principle because I did suspect that restaurants like that would pull this kind of cheap scam to add items to the bill secretly at closing time, then hurry the customers to pay up whilst everyone was in a terrible hurry to leave. In the end, I was practically forced out of the building via the back door by a member of staff as if the building was on fire and thus I was very unhappy about the way I had been treated. So, was this a deliberate attempt to scam me of 3 euros, or simply a sign of a completely disorganized, incompetent team of waiters?

I went another restaurant in Porto for dinner and this was how they handled the situation: as they sat me down, they told me exactly what time the restaurant had to close because of the Covid-curfew and if I could pay up once the food had been served, so as to avoid a mad rush at closing time. It was calm and well-organized, you could tell that the staff there knew exactly how to handle the situation when it came to closing time. So when I got back to London, I left the restaurant who overcharged me a bad review on TripAdvisor but I also went further to write them an email to complain about the way the situation was handled. What happened next surprised me: within 20 minutes, I got a reply from the general manager there who offered a groveling apology about what happened and whilst the email was in bad English, it was very clear that he genuinely felt bad about the way his team had messed up and he asked me for my bank details, so he could send me the 3 euros at once. I thought okay, fair enough, I then told him to cover the cost of the transfer so I would not have to pay for the money to be converted to pound sterling, since I didn't have a Euro bank account. He then said sure, just tell me what the cost will be and I will cover it. I offered to send him photos of me in the restaurant along with a scan of the receipt detailing the mistake but he said that wasn't necessary at all, he just wanted to put things right with me. Within minutes, he had done the transfer and sent me a scan of the receipt of the transfer, the money ought to hit my bank account within three working days. Well I really didn't expect that; after all, they could have just ignored my email and it would be just yet another bad review on TripAdvisor. But no this was a genuine mistake and they are indeed sorry

The second incident that I want to share with you was from the quaint town of Guimarães. Porto is a actually fairly small city, there is the quaint and touristy historic center full of beautiful grand buildings then there are the sprawling suburbs where the tourists never visit. I planned a few day trips out of Porto using the Portuguese train network - the trains are regular, efficient and actually really cheap, a train journey that takes 60 to 75 minutes can cost around 3.25 euros only. So when we arrived at the town Guimarães, we decided to have a coffee break; so we went into a small cafe run by an old man who did some stupid things to annoy me. Like where do I begin? I speak Portuguese! It isn't fluent but Portuguese is actually pretty close to Catalan, Italian, Spanish, and French - Catalan is my 9th language, Italian is my 6th language, Spanish is my 4th language and French is my 2nd language, I understand practically everything they say and whilst I may make some mistakes when trying to express myself in Portuguese by accidentally using an Spanish word or pronouncing a Portuguese word with a Spanish accent, but I have no problems expressing myself in Portuguese and I would have thought that solely based on the way I spoke Portuguese rather well, I would have come across as an very cosmopolitan European person who spoke several European languages fluently. In fact, I always joke that despite being of a non-white ethnic minority, my brain is more European than 99.9999% of white Europeans because the fact that I speak more European languages than 99.9999% of white European people given that I speak over 20 European languages. But did this old man at the cafe notice that? No - he was just so fixated with the fact that I looked East Asian. 

So what was the first thing he did was he clasped his palms together and bowed as I entered the cafe. I thought, that's fucking racist because nobody does that shit and you're a stupid, ignorant old man. I then spoke to him in Portuguese but he replied in bad English despite the fact that I told him a number of times that I can speak his language. Then to add insult to injury, he insisted on speaking to my white Irish husband in Portuguese despite the fact that my husband speaks no Portuguese at all and had been totally reliant on me to do all the communicating in Portuguese on this trip. So despite the fact that I had to translate what the old man said to him into English and translate my husband's replies back into Portuguese for him, this old man still insisted on speaking to my husband in Portuguese and to me in bad English. He had this small statue of a Buddha in his cafe (bizarre, don't ask me why) and he moved the statue right next to our table so the Buddha was staring right at me. He then declared to me in bad English, "I have the Santo Buddha!" Santo means saint in Portuguese and holy fuck - like where do I even begin? Buddha is not a saint for crying out loud, the concept of saints is quintessentially Catholic (the vast majority of Portuguese people are Catholics) and in any case, I'm not a Buddhist either. So I explained to him in Portuguese, "Eu não sou budista, na verdade sou ateu." (I am not Buddhist, I am actually an atheist.) I repeated it twice slowly and clearly and he replied in bad English (whilst clasping his palms together as if in prayer), "yes, you like the Santo Buddha?" Oh my husband was looking on in utter horror at that point as he knew just how mortally offended I was then! Here's a popular comedy clip to that does capture exactly how I felt then.

Was the old man at the cafe racist? No, he wasn't - he was just ignorant and had extremely poor social skills. He probably didn't meet a lot of foreign tourists in that little town and thus hasn't met any Chinese or East Asian people before. His efforts to established rapport had totally failed but was there any malice involved? No, there wasn't - I can tell the difference quite easily. In fact, we have a clear case of the Dunning-Kruger effect here: this old man at the cafe was so hopelessly bad at establishing rapport with me that he didn't even realize how disastrous his attempts had been, even though it was evident that it was a car crash in slow motion when observed by a third party. Someone who witnessed that incident could walk away with the impression that older people in Portugal are shockingly racist and that old man was trying to mock or insult me. But no, that would be an inaccurate reflection of the situation: this old man was ignorant, had awful social skills and was just just fucking stupid, but he wasn't racist. I think it is very important to look at the context before jumping to any conclusions. Did this old man have much contact with many foreigners, especially East Asian tourists if he ran a cafe in a very small town in the Portuguese countryside? Probably not, especially since the pandemic had meant that very few foreign tourists actually visited Portugal in the last 18 months and in any case, most tourists would probably only stick to the bigger cities like Lisbon and Porto, whilst a very small town like Guimarães was well off the well-trodden routes used by most tourists. However, there is one more Chinese dimension to this story in Guimarães.

As we were exploring the old town, we stumbled upon a Chinese restaurant in the old town - it was the last thing I expected and I just couldn't resist taking a look at the menu. Whilst I was standing there reading the menu at the door of the restaurant, two members of staff noticed me and they probably hadn't seen a Chinese tourist in ages because of Covid-19, so they started talking to me in Mandarin as they were curious where I was from. They were friendly and we started chatting, mostly about the pandemic. Sure enough, they tried to speak to my Irish husband in Portuguese and so I asked them if they could speak to him in English instead but no, they couldn't and one of them said, "好心你呀, 我连葡萄牙语都还没有学好, 你还要我说英语!" (Goodness me, I can barely speak Portuguese and you want me to speak English too?) So I asked if they had arrived recently from China but they had both been in Portugal for well over ten years and when I switched to Portuguese with them, they thought I had been living there for my whole life as I didn't have a Chinese accent. I hate to bitch but they had a really strong Chinese accent when they spoke Portuguese but that's hardly surprising - go to any Chinese restaurant in London Chinatown and the staff there will probably speak English with an equally strong Chinese accent. Sorry to have to point out the obvious but waiters and chefs who work in Chinese restaurants in Europe tend not to be highly educated or rich - there are probably some highly trained chefs in the top end restaurants who command a higher salary but your average Chinese restaurant in a small town is unlikely to hire a top-end highly skilled master chef and would instead hire staff from China - who would work long hours for a very low salary. 

So if the old man from the cafe in Guimarães would have probably crossed paths with the stereotypically Chinese staff from this Chinese restaurant given that the Chinese restaurant was only about 490 meters away and just a 6 minute walk from the old man's cafe (according to Google maps). Hence it wasn't like this old man has never ever met Chinese people in his life before given the presence of that Chinese restaurant in Guimarães. If I may point out the obvious, these people at the Chinese restaurant are nothing like me - they speak Mandarin as a first language and struggled on in Portuguese as a second language, they probably spoke enough Portuguese to communicate with guests and their vocabulary probably revolved around Chinese food but they would struggle to have a conversation about politics or philosophy in Portuguese. Culturally, they were as Chinese as they come and dare I say, if I were to imagine an un-PC image of your stereotypical Chinese migrant in the West working in a Chinese restaurant, then they would fit the bill perfectly. I don't want you to think that I am looking down at the staff in that Chinese restaurant or that I somehow think I am better than them - I am merely pointing out that if that old man from the cafe had interacted with the staff from that Chinese restaurant in his town, then it would have been obvious where he got those stereotypical impressions of Chinese people from. After all, there's no smoke without fire. Still, if he had better social skills and had been more observant then he might have at least realized that I was getting seriously annoyed with him and wasn't at all impressed. 

So let me analyze it this way: statistically, there are approximately 1.75 billion people in the world who look East Asian - I'm including anyone who is Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese and generally from that part of the world who would have facial features like mine. If you were to look at that sample, then the chances of you finding an East Asian person who is yellow on the outside and totally white on the inside like me (ie. the famous banana) is actually pretty darn rare - you are most likely to find such bananas amongst second or third generation Asian Americans who were born and bred in America, thus they would be culturally a lot more American than Asian as a result of growing up in the United States. However, the vast majority of East Asian people would be a lot more Asian: they are as yellow on the outside as they are on the inside, just like the people working at the Chinese restaurant in Guimarães whom I had that friendly chat with. Yes I recognize that I am an exception to the norm in this case in being a banana. But this begs the question: do you default to stereotypes when you meet someone - is that ever an acceptable strategy to establish rapport? The answer is no, that's never the case. I know what is going on in this old man's head: he noticed that I looked Chinese and so he wanted to impress me by trying to say and do everything he knew about China and Chinese culture - that was a really dumb strategy to establish rapport because it was evident that he knew really nothing about Chinese culture. Whilst what this old man did was at best foolish (for he certainly made a fool of himself), allow me to compare this to something my nephew did quite recently in a lesson, to illustrate how a lot of people can make this same mistake. 

We were dealing with an essay question that required my nephew to "discuss the likely effects of this policy". My nephew didn't read the question properly, his eyes merely latched onto terms like unemployment and inflation in the question, so he started telling me everything he knew about unemployment and inflation without actually relating any of that to "the likely effects of this policy". Is my nephew stupid? No, but he has poor exam techniques and that's the very issue I am addressing with him: I am training him to read the question carefully and offering answers that specifically answer the question at hand. Right now, his default response is to react to the words in the question that he does understand and simply furiously writing down everything he knows about the topic - it is a terrible strategy to try to score marks in an exam because my nephew is wasting a lot of time writing stuff that he has memorized from the textbook and even if what he wrote is 100% accurate, if it doesn't specifically answer the question, he isn't going to score any points. Now this may seem like common sense, but you'll be amazed how many people perform badly in this aspect. It is what we refer to as listening/reading comprehension failure - they don't pay enough attention to what they have in front of them and thus offer an inappropriate response. Now this is something I can train my nephew to deal with more effectively in an exam situation, but who is going to train that old man in Guimarães when it comes to this aspect of his social skills? Nobody is there to tell him, "just shut up, don't speak - instead listen hard, observe and pay attention before you open your mouth." He is just going to continue making these ignorant mistakes for the rest of his life in the absence of a 'social skills coach'. 

So here's the moral of the story: when you go traveling, you will encounter people who are flawed in various ways. The staff at the restaurant were disorganized and incompetent, I had terrible service but was there any malice involved? No. Were they dishonestly trying to overcharge me? No, it was an honest mistake which they did put right the moment I had emailed them about it. Was the old man at the cafe an evil racist? No, he was just a stupid idiot with poor social skills - in fact, I actually put up with his idiocy whilst I had my coffee there because simply scolding him wouldn't solve the underlying problem that he had poor social skills. Allow me to use my nephew as an analogy: my regular readers will know that I am tutoring my nephew to help him with his A level economics exam. Admittedly, he is struggling with the subject mostly because of the fact that his teachers are shockingly lazy and incompetent. Would simply scolding my nephew miraculously improve his grades in the subject? No, it would serve no purpose at all; I would only be venting my frustration and that would upset him. Instead, I spend a lot of time studying his syllabus, making sure I am able to guide him through the test papers to prepare him for his exam - I am trying to be the best possible teacher in the world for him. So am I willing to train this old man at the cafe when it came to his social skills? No, I was simply going to finish my cup of coffee, leave and never ever see him ever again. That was why I chose not to raise the topic of his extremely poor social skills even if he was a total moron: that was his problem, not mine; so I chose not to get involved in his problems.  

That's it from me on this topic: this is why I would always try to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than assume the very worst of them for good reason and I hope I have proven to you in this post why this should always be your default response when things go wrong. I have seen pessimistic people simply jump to the wrong conclusion by assuming the very worst of others; they are the kind of people who end up believing that the world is such a horrible place and everyone really hates them. As for me, I refuse to be like that and I urge you to share in my optimism please. So what do you think? Is my optimism misplaced or do you agree with me that pessimism in this aspect serves no purpose? Have you met people like that old man from the cafe? Furthermore, when would really poor social skills finally turn into offensive racism and how do you determine that line has finally been crossed? Please look out for part 2 when I will share more stories from my recent holiday in Portugal. Please leave a comment below and many thanks for reading. 

43 comments:

  1. I'm surprised someone even read your email about a 3 Euro overcharge, and they treated you that well. But I'm not surprised that you sent that email haha, 3 Euros is almost a 70 min train ride out of Porto. I would feel sorry for that old man who has to resort to stereotypes to establish rapport. Its not even to do with racism, I mean people assume weird things about me just because I'm a scientist like being absent minded, snobby, etc. That also reminds me of how some people assume you're too busy at work just because you don't have children in your 40s.

    I think the moral of this story is always "if you feel uncomfortable/don't know what to say, ask someone for context." That old man could've said to you "Hello, nice of you to come to my cafe. Are you here on vacation? Where did you come from? Enjoying Portugal so far? What did you do before you came here?" And he would've instantly found out you were British tourists, and only one of you can speak Portuguese. But its a small town and good social skills aren't as important compared to working at that fancy restaurant which gave you a 3 euro refund.

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    1. Yeah like 3 euros = USD 3.65, it is not a lot of money but it's more the principle of the matter. I remember once when I was in Santiago, Chile - I asked for the bill and the manager had put down that I had the steak + chicken, I said no we had the fish + chicken and he claimed, oh the steak is the same price as the fish. I then paid the bill and then called the waiter who had served us over and pretended that I wanted to get a take away for my 'friend', so he brought me the menu and I showed him that the steak actually costed about US$1 more than the fish I had and I wanted my dollar back. The waiter didn't hesitate to give me my dollar back which did buy me a coffee the next morning. So shit like that does happen - did the manager really think that the steak cost the same as the fish? I think not - I caught them out and I'm like, look I'm happy to pay the fair price on your menu but I don't like getting scammed. But in this case, the restaurant in Porto did respond so at least they were totally honest, which is good to know.

      As for that old man in the cafe, good grief - he is clueless, stupid and ignorant. Where do I even begin? Only a 5 year old child might do something that stupid - ie. "I noticed that you're Chinese, so I am going to say everything I know about China and Chinese culture and you're gonna reward me!" Hell no, even I don't let young children get away with that. But the fact is we do live in a world where some people have appallingly bad social skills and I feel it is important to know the difference between an old man with awful social skills and a racist old man who hates Asians. In this case, it was the former and not the latter. The fact is he actually spoke some English - not a lot, just the basics, but the fact is his listening comprehension was so awful that he failed to figure out which one of the two guys spoke only English and which one actually spoke Portuguese. It's like that Youtube comedy skit from the Japanese restaurant I posted - it's not rocket science to figure out who is speaking YOUR language and who is speaking English, is it?! Yet he couldn't do that and I'm like, okay, we're dealing with a genuine idiot here. He is seriously low IQ retarded stupid - but he's not a racist, even though he did irritate me. How I wish we had gone to a different cafe, but hey, then I wouldn't have had this story to tell on my blog, would I? There you go.

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    2. Now allow me to contrast what the old man did to another incident years ago in Istanbul, Turkey. I was working at the Istanbul motor show when some random Turkish guy came up to me and asked me if I spoke Mandarin. And I was like, dude, you're Turkish, are you going to speak to me in Mandarin? Turns out his Mandarin was better than mine - he had studied in China for his degree and was desperate to practice his Mandarin with anyone he could, but it was hard to find real people in Turkey to speak Mandarin with. So I did indulge him in a friendly chat over a cup of tea given that I was actually pretty curious as to why a Turkish guy decided to go do university in China and learn Chinese - it was a fun conversation and I enjoy meeting people like that. But look, his Chinese was BETTER than mine, that's how high the bar is if you wanna impress me with your knowledge of China + Chinese culture + Chinese language; this guy in Istanbul succeeded where the old man in the cafe had failed miserably. The fact is, yes it is possible to impress me the way that Turkish guy did. Where that old man in the cafe had failed was not realizing how difficult it was to impress me - it's like he's autistic: he saw the entire incident through his own point of view without once considering my point of view. It's okay if he wasn't impressed with my Portuguese (hey a lot of people I met were blown away by the fact that I actually freaking spoke Portuguese quite well despite only having visited Portugal just 3 times), but for him to expect me to be impressed with his reference to Santo Buddha. Oh please. Gimme a break.

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    3. Wow so you even made a complaint about $1 as well. I think I would've done the same when I was still a broke college student, but when I have my own income I would hardly notice $1 missing. I remember recently there was this textbook on Amazon that I needed for work, and it was $25 and I was tempted to just use my own money to buy it instead of having to fill out forms and using my company's expense account. But I told myself if I use my own money too many times it will add up.

      Wow a Turkish person speaking Chinese, that's amazing. It also surprises me when non East Asian looking people go to China and do all they can to learn the local customs and language. It's just as impressive as you going to France and becoming fluent in French as someone with no french ancestry.

      Lol that old man would be surprised to know that most Chinese in China are atheist rather than Buddhist, and that Buddhism originated in India and not China. That shows to me this person is probably not very well educated or well travelled. I think you're teaching your nephew a good skill with regards to context and listening, he'll need that for university interviews/essays or job interviews. I had to learn that lesson in my early 20s and even now I don't do the best job at remembering.

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    4. Oh yeah I would even over an amount smaller than $1 because it is the principle of the matter. I would rather leave the waiter a $1 tip for his honesty than to allow a dishonest manager to overcharge me for a more expensive item that I didn't have. I remembered as well when I was at a supermarket, I picked up an item like a pack of tea and the price scanned at the till was £0.10 more than the price displayed. I wanted the difference - I even got the manager to walk with me to the shelf where I got the tea and showed him the receipt, all that over £0.10? Cos it's the principle of the matter - I wanna pay the price you advertised, not more because someone made a mistake somewhere along the way. And yes I got my £0.10 back. Now I sound like an old Asian grandfather, LOL. It's the principle of the matter for me.

      Yes I have met a number of white people in Europe who have mastered Chinese to a stunningly high standard, often having lived in China or Taiwan for a few years to achieve that - that would impress me. But it's when idiots say 'ni hao' to me and expect me to be impressed, now that's when I roll my eyes and ask them if they are completely autistic or just plain stupid? Therein lies the difference when it comes to trying to impress me when your Chinese skills. Honestly, I don't expect white people to know any Mandarin at all, it's quite okay if they don't speak a word of it - but if they expect me to be impressed if they only know how to say just one word of it, then that's when I roll my eyes in disbelief. As for my nephew, I think listening/reading comprehension is one of these very basic social skills that will serve us so well in life. Doing well in the economics exam is not about just memorizing your notes/textbook - it's about being able to answer the question in the exam. So what happened was we were given an extract (ie. like a 2 paragraph news article on how a government is dealing with inflation) and the question was, "discuss the likely effects of this policy" (the policy being what the government has done to deal with inflation). My nephew ignores the question and just starts saying everything he knows and can remember about inflation; good grief. That's not how you deal with exams! You need to answer the question you have been asked: it seems like such simple common sense but I look at the old man in the cafe, I realize a lot of people don't have this simple skill, hence the reading and listening comprehension epic fails.

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    5. Lol 0.10 at the supermarket too. Hmm I did fret over being overcharged by my health insurance, but that's my health we're talking about, can't let them bully me over that. I guess its not really about the money, but the value we attach to honesty.

      Yes I'm continually surprised how much certain westerners are fascinated with China and go there to study and work. I met a German man who spoke perfect Chinese in Singapore because he liked surfing and lived in Hainan for a few years because of their surf scene. Meanwhile I've only ever moved to countries where English is the official language(pretty boring haha). Kinda think I would travel more to non English speaking countries once I'm done with school.

      Y'know that economics question reminds me a lot of my zoom call with my boss the other day. He asked me to "describe in one sentence the contribution", and I said "we are doing something similar to a Fast Fourier Transform/Cholesky Decomposition." He immediately got angry at me for using examples from math, when we work in the engineering department and the people who will read our work are engineers. His reply was "and how many mathematicians do you expect to read a paper of our project compared to non-mathematicians? No, we should use the analogy of instead of building a house from bricks you can build a house from pre-fabricated walls to build it faster. Everyone understands bricks and houses." I wasn't thinking of my audience at all, and had I blindly submitted the project to the journal it may have been understood/accepted, but less people would appreciate it and we'd be less famous/successful. I swear scientists even pay people just to turn techno-babble into things the audience can understand, because we can't get paid otherwise just like how your nephew can't score an A otherwise.

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    6. Alex, can I ask you a little about the banking industry? I saw this job posting at my university's job board for a summer 2022 internship at a hedge fund for quantitative analysis (D.E. Shaw & co.). They were asking for PhD students to develop trading algorithms for them, but the job listing was a bit vague and didn't ask for any specific past experience. They just said they wanted "problem solving skills." Also its a little strange they post a job listing this early when most companies post jobs 6 months from the start date. Its not my first choice of an industry to work in, but a job's a job and if finance pays well and they offer me the job I'll take it. Anyway, what I'm asking is, does this job posting seem legit? And what do you think the interview will be like? From the job listing there isn't a lot to go on (they didn't even ask for coding skills).

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    7. Exactly, it is what we attach to the value of integrity, honesty and trust - let me give you an example from Tunisia, a country where people are simply not honest. You always negotiate the price of the taxi when you get into the taxi, so I haggled the taxi driver to drive me to this place for 5 Dinars. Like we bargained for a while to finally agree on that price, he even shook my hand as if we had just negotiated a business deal. We arrive at the destination and he asked me for 7 Dinars, as if that conversation didn't happen and we had to bargain all over again. I scolded him angrily in French and Arabic for being so dishonest, as if I was going to forget that he agreed to do the journey for 5 Dinars. If he had been honest and pleasant, then sure sometimes we do tip the taxi driver but for the way he behaved, it wasn't even the issue of 2 Dinars, it was his attitude that I took issue with. Some tourists might think, forget it, it's not that much money, just give it to him and get on with our day but not me.

      And yes, listening/reading comprehension is a hugely underrated skill in the working world. It's not about having knowledge per se, it is about knowing how to apply your knowledge - in my nephew's case, it's answering the exam question. It's not like he hasn't been studying, but he struggles to apply what he knows when answering specific questions. But I'd like to think that this is a useful skill that will serve him very well in life, long after he has taken his last economics exam and I do feel I am making a useful contribution to his development here.

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  2. Aaaah I didn't reply to that other comment about the banking industry - sorry about that. That is an interesting question: I don't think it is a fake post or a scam. For what it is worth, this is my opinion. In banking, every company will have their own products, their own strategies, their own problems they want to solve. If I may use an analogy that makes this situation obvious, even if you went to the finest cooking school to train to be a chef that can make all kinds of cuisine, if you join a company that only makes ice cream - then they only need a tiny portion of your skill set. They will need you to become an expert when it comes to the ice cream making process whilst everything else that's not ice cream becomes totally irrelevant. That's why companies like that generally like hiring from good universities but are not fussed about your background, because as in the ice cream case, even if you train in a relevant field, what they do is so niche and specialized that they will still end up teaching you everything you need to know - you're never expected to hit the ground running, there will be a steep learning curve that you'll be helped to climb if you do get selected for the job. They simply want someone intelligent who is a fast learner and can adapt to the new environment quickly. D E Shaw is a great company and I would seriously look into this if the opportunity has presented itself.

    As for the job interview, they just want signs of INTELLIGENCE - remember they will teach you everything you need to know, they just need the raw material to work with. I remember reading this story about Nadia Comaneci - the Romanian gymnast who dominated the 1976 Olympics and was the greatest gymnast of her era. She won an insane number of gold medals and was the best in the world from the period 1975 to 1979. Well she was 'talent spotted' as a kid playing in the playground at a young age by her coach, her coach was merely looking for raw material to work with, not the finished product. A lot of companies in financial services are doing just that - looking for young people with a lot of potential.

    As for the interview process, we need to start with what they're looking for and work backwards - allow me to explain. So if I am looking for team work skills, I'll organize an activity where you have to solve a puzzle as part of a group of 4 people and observe how the individuals interact with others within the group. If I am looking for people who can think outside the box and come up with fresh ideas, new approaches and have that kind of flexibility in their thinking, I'll try something like give you an open ended scenario much like in an A level economics exam, whereby there are often two sides of the argument. So an example from my nephew's exam papers would work like this: I will give you a short story (say half a page to one page) about a policy the US government has taken in response to the pandemic - you then have to comment whether the policy has been effective or not. You will then have to argue both sides of the argument: YES it has been effective, NO it was a dumb idea and a waste of time/money. I like to test if people can indeed automatically see both sides of the argument or if they default to taking a strong stance and taking one side of the argument (ie. they only present their own point of view, whilst ignoring the fact that others may have a different perspective).

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    1. There are so many things that I can test a candidate - how about working calmly under pressure? I can give a candidate a difficult puzzle to solve (it could be based on maths/logic) and in this case, I'm not so much testing your math skills but I'm observing how you approach the problem under pressure, do you panic? Do you remain calm? How do you cope with the stress of the pressure? A lot of people think "as long as I get the right answer that's all that matters" but remember the person testing you already knows the answer, they're not interested in the answer per se but more interested in how you behave and if you would be a good fit for the team, especially if they are looking for someone who will remain calm under pressure.

      In any case Amanda, you said this was just for an internship. I say go for it, you have little to lose because it may give you perspective about your future career path, even if it is ruling this one out if you don't like it. The whole interview process will be great training for you in any case when it comes to your future job interviews. I would encourage you to try it, even if it merely for the chance to go through the interview process.

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    2. Oh and as for the 6 months in advance thing, yeah that's not unusual - it just shows they are very well organized and planning in advance. If they have an annual deadline whereby they plan for interns, then giving themselves more time to sort through the many applications may just reflect the fact that they get so many applicants every year they need more than a few weeks to sort through all the applications, hence they chose to give themselves a few months to do that rather than cram it all into a few weeks. So that's absolutely normal there.

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    3. Hey Alex, thank you so much for your perspective and advice. I was reminded of the time we talked about how there is no one degree to get into investment banking and most likely the recruiter will accept any major and ask a bunch of critical thinking questions in the interview. Here's the weirdest line that I saw as part of the job description: "Joining a diverse group of colleagues composed of published authors, entrepreneurs, opera singers, International Math and Physics Olympiad medalists, and many others, trader interns will take on complex challenges that are ever-changing and reach far beyond the world of finance." That was for the trading job which was 10 weeks in New York and 10 weeks in London, which I was tempted to apply to because we might bump into each other in London's financial district. But I only get 16 weeks off from my graduate program, and so applied to the Quantitative Analyst job in the New York office instead. But if I get any job at a hedge fund I'll have more than enough to travel to Europe on vacation by myself. I really hope they'll give me an interview, and thanks to you I'll be prepared for it.

      I actually wrote the original comment before I sat down to apply for the job (took me 3 hours total). Here is what I found out about DE Shaw & co. "Mr." DE Shaw is actually a former computer science professor who started a hedge fund specifically to recruit people from science, engineering, and math to trade algorithmically. So when I filled in the application I was surprised there were 0 questions about finance or finance experience. In fact, there was one box just for me to talk about scientific awards, another about research publications, and another box just about my coding experience. They even asked what coding languages I know and how many lines of code I've written on past projects. It was even more science-specific than the engineering job applications I've filled out before, where I felt my math/code experience was not as questioned (bachelor's degree was enough apparently). Also, the form did ask "when are you available to work?" and the choices were "immediately", "within 6 months", "within 6-12 months", and "more than 12 months away", so they weren't in a rush. I just hope applying early means the position hasn't been filled yet, but I will also try to apply to other hedge funds after seeing how they value my skillset and how much they pay. Apparently there's more than a few hedge funds that specifically recruit scientists.

      Personally I wouldn't mind working with them for a couple years after I finish my degree. I never thought of banking before, but if I'm gonna build good technology I will need investors, and working for a hedge fund sounds like the best way to network. I would prefer to work with a big software or hardware company, but I should cast my net a bit wider since there is a lot of competition.

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    4. Exactly, hence my ice cream analogy - I am always highly skeptical of the role of paper qualifications and the role of teachers. I've seen how awful my parents were as teachers and now I am seeing exactly how lazy my nephew's teachers are, so I always believe that most companies will simply hire people who are highly intelligent and fast learners, hence they are not dependent on anyone to teach them what they need to know but will always figure it out for themselves pretty easily. That is a very important feature of the recruitment process and with that in mind, you know how exactly what they're looking for. So by all means, try your luck with them and if the opportunity presents itself, then do take advantage of it.

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    5. So by that token when a hedge fund scouts for students at high ranked universities, they probably couldn't care less about education and more on self-motivation and problem solving. Come to think of it I know people who couldn't find employment in engineering even with a bachelor's degree, and that's because they didn't do anything after school besides their homework. No side projects, self-studying, networking, etc., and apparently that leads to unemployment. I guess information is not important, but how we make sense of that information and use it. As they say, we can take a horse to water, but can't make it drink or learn how to find new rivers/lakes, that's just innate.

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    6. Yes indeed, these hedge fund companies want people who are quick to think of their feet, learn fast, invent a solution when there is none in the textbook and be prepared to think outside the box. They tend to hire from top universities as you're more than likely to find such candidates at top universities, but they have to make sure they avoid the students who got to the top universities simply by becoming really good at exams rather than have those qualities they are looking for. A lot of Singaporeans who do make it to top universities struggle in the working world because they're really only good at acing exams but are crap when it comes to the challenges of the working world because they grew up studying so hard they never spared a moment to try to learn anything about the world beyond what is covered in the textbook.

      I was talking to a friend yesterday - he has a degree in engineering but graduated during the pandemic last year. So he took a job in healthcare because it was the only thing that was hiring and now he has a career in healthcare: does he want to go back to engineering because that is his one true love and passion or is he quite content with a career in healthcare? He told me he was bothered by the fact that he did work so hard to get his degree and now it's rendered totally irrelevant and useless in healthcare - but I had to then say, Harvey, come on, is that a good enough reason to give up your career in healthcare just because you worked hard at university to get your degree? Only go back to engineering if your heart really desperately wants to be an engineer but don't do it because you don't want your years of effort at university to go to waste. Many people (like me!) do end up in careers which have little or nothing to do with their degrees and we just write off the degree, it doesn't have to be useful to our working life and if we can establish a degree without it, then so be it. Focus on the future and not the past. So Amanda, I think you're in the same situation as my friend Harvey who has that degree in engineering but now works in healthcare.

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    7. Yeah, when I googled some of the questions that finance firms would ask their interns, they're very different to school exam questions and someone who only spent their education listening to a teacher and expecting to know everything would seriously struggle. But these firms make a lot of money for themselves because they thrive on innovation. That's what I think is lacking in the students who can only remember what others tell them instead of having the initiative for coming up with new ideas. This is why as a sciences major I have a huge appreciation for the humanities. On a science exam the answer is usually in the textbook or based on a formula in a textbook. With a humanities essay you have to Google all the pros/cons with regards to the question which may be different than what was taught in class. And even if you can only use evidence presented in the class, one can reason new conclusions from evidence which is what a good teacher should encourage.

      Mate, my first job out of graduation was 100% in my engineering field. I worked so hard to study calculus and differential equations only to find I didn't need it for a job that clearly would not have hired someone without an engineering degree. Credential inflation is a thing, where jobs in engineering that 50 years ago required a highschool diploma now require a bachelor's degree because access to education creates an oversupply of graduates. The strange thing is none of the other engineers at that job had a problem with never having to use calculus again. But like you said unless your friend loves engineering and doing engineering, they should be grateful they have a career if money is all they wanted from a degree. I myself at the time hated not using calculus/quantum physics cuz I love it, and went back to academia so I could use it again.

      Lol I'm not out of engineering yet, I still work in academia and do engineering for a living. But I am seriously considering a career in finance after finishing my graduate degree, and definitely for the summer. The funny thing is there were finance jobs in Sg that hired engineers, but I was never interested in them in undergrad. Maybe because I didn't read this blog yet haha, you actually make finance sound like a mental challenge to work in. Before that I thought it would be a dry job doing the same thing every day, which I absolutely hate. I still do love engineering/science but lately I give so much to it but don't get much back in terms of salary. Some days it seriously makes me question where is my career headed because I don't want to be a professor. So the only other option is the tech industry, or finding capital to make a tech startup.

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    8. Hi there Amanda, a good reason why these questions asked by finance firms are so different is because they're catered to be answerable by anyone no matter what your degree is in. It has to be the kind of question that both an engineering and a law graduate can answer and neither would have an advantage. That's why a lot of it has got to do with reasoning, problem solving, exploring complex issues/ideas and often they are not looking for 'the right answer' per se but they want to explore the process that goes on in your brain as you work towards your answer.

      As for my friend, well he doesn't have a lot of choice - he went into healthcare because that was the only work he could get and he's sort of happy, kinda grateful that he is gainfully employed and earning money but he can't help but feel like he studied so hard to get a degree in engineering, now he's doing something completely irrelevant. I tried to tell him, dude, don't worry about the degree, loads of people end up in jobs that have absolutely nothing to do with their degree. As long as you have a career you're happy with, that's all that matters.

      As for jobs in finance being dry and boring, well - that's a wrong assumption to make. It depends on the role you pick within the industry. Some roles are indeed extremely dry and boring whilst others aren't. I have had friends in the industry who picked some very boring, accounting related roles within banking and yeah they spend their days doing paperwork that's complex but boring at the same time. Whereas for me, I work in corporate finance and there's a lot more scope to do interesting, independent projects especially if you're on the business development end of the team. And of course, it is all well paid so some people put up with the boring nature of a 'paperwork' type of job cos they need the money whilst others like me manage to create a more autonomous role where I get to earn a decent living whilst enjoying a lot of autonomy over what I do. Analogy coming up.

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    10. I was in a London supermarket with my father and we saw some melons - he asked me where the melons are from and I checked, they were from Brazil. So he asked me a dumb question, "are melons from Brazil sweet?" I rolled my eyes - millions of melons are grown every year in Brazil, how can you ask such a question? Some are very sweet, some are not and there's everything in between the two extremes. The moral of the story is you can't generalize: millions of people work in finance. Some have painfully boring jobs, others are having a lot of fun and there's everything in between - just as in the case of the melons from Brazil. Don't assume and never generalize when your sample size is massive.

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    11. Hmm I never thought about the fact that the jobs are usually open to any majors so you can't ask field specific questions. Though the job positions I see are usually split into "generalist" (e.g law, sociology, etc.) And "quant" (engineering, physics, etc.). But that's only for a hedge fund, the finance industry is much more than that.

      So Alex when did you first get interested in the finance industry and getting a job in it? I know UCL is a good school that employers like to recruit from, including financial firms since it is in London. Corporate finance does sound more interesting than say approving house mortgages to individuals. Did some banks ever visit UCL and you attended a talk? Or did you have a friend who worked in finance and told you about it? I'm curious what UCL was like in terms of nurturing their students' careers.

      So initially I told my friends I felt a twinge of guilt for wanting to work for a hedge fund. Because society doesn't like wallstreet, but also because the people at my workplace don't make a lot of money and have just kinda accepted it as part of being a scientist. But in my case I want more. I love science but I also like buying a house, eating good sushi, and having money for travel, and am willing to hustle to make my science more profitable. But people keep cutting me down at work whenever I mention interning or entrepreneurship. Also I was afraid to close the door on working in science/engineering permanently. But Jeff Bezos worked at DE shaw in his late 20s when they were still a startup. It was his last job before quitting and founding Amazon. In any case I do wanna try finance to see what it's like and make enough to buy a house.

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    12. As for when I wanted to get into finance, well - it's a long story and probably not quite one you had in mind. My first two jobs after university were AWFUL just awful, being from UCL doesn't count for shit in the UK. The only two universities which can offer you a degree with that kind of privilege is Oxford and Cambridge, but beyond that, you have to hustle and that's what I did. I went from one shit job to one that was less shitty to a third one that was bearable and it was only on the 4th job that I finally got my foot in the door in finance proper. The problem with my final year at university was that I completely missed all the recruitment programmes, I was on exchange in Paris, France so I didn't attend a single event. In hindsight, that was a massive mistake of course. But I also hold my hand up and confess that I was stupid and naive, I fucked up royally. I was too much of a student who was so focused on what I did, I never thought about what working life was going to be like after I graduated. So I never planned, I was an idiot, I messed up so bad and that was why I paid a very high price by ending up with two absolutely AWFUL jobs as my first two jobs. Please don't imagine that I'm the scholar who got things right - quite the opposite, I was the fucking idiot who fucked up big time and paid a high price for my foolishness. If anything, I can share my story to be what NOT to do, hey kids, don't be a fucking idiot like me, don't fuck up the way I did - plan for your future! In sharing my story this honestly about how fucking stupid I was, I am hoping others will avoid my awful, terrible mistakes and have a slightly easier time when it comes to this transition from university to working life. I fucked up royally. Like holy shit did I fuck up real bad. But thankfully, it took me about 10 years to turn my life around and by the time I was in my mid-30s, I was back on track but I look at people who didn't waste 10 years messing around in shitty jobs and they're so much more successful than me because they're 10 years ahead of me in the game.

      I guess my story is that even if you do fuck your life up royally the way I did by being really fucking stupid, you can still make things right and turn your life around by making the right choices to make amends. I did only get my first proper job in finance in 2008 when I was already 32 years old and before that, I was messing around on the periphery of the finance, only working in the media for finance sector which isn't hardcore, proper banking.

      As for your future, you have to ignore what people say and do what is best for you. Life is full of haters and you have to have the balls to tell them to go fuck themselves. What is most important is that you do whatever you feel is right for you and your future. Success means different things for different people and you get to define what that means for you personally.

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    13. Oh allow me to explain to you how I fucked up at university: I was so focused on getting good grades that I neglected things like work experience, internships and basically doing research about getting jobs and what kind of career I wanted. I was so good at being a student that I was kinda in denial about the fact that I had to eventually graduate one day and get a real job in the working world - so the closer I got to graduation, the more I focused on my studies and ignored the need to hunt for a job because I was so afraid of the transition. Boy that was dumb and thus I paid a high price when I was unceremoniously thrust into the working world and I didn't have a clue where or how to start looking for work - so I desperately applied for stuff and accepted the first job that would take me. I thought, phew I have a job I'm okay now, but it was a TERRIBLE job in a horrific environment. It was a sales job as well and it seemed like the only kind of work I could get. I had missed the boat on better opportunities cos I fucked up royally with the timing by going to France on exchange and not making up for it the moment I returned to London. Oh boy, let me be the first to tell you how utterly fucking stupid I was back then. Okay, we're going back to the period 1999-2000, that was a long time ago and I've grown up a lot since, but it doesn't change the fact that I have to admit that I was a total fucking idiot back then. Whilst everyone else waltz out of university into their brand new jobs, I stumbled out and fell face first into a big pile of stinking pigs' guts. Oh boy, it is unreal how stupid I was and you can tell by the way I am writing that I am still so angry with myself in hindsight.

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    14. Yeah, I do have to do what's right for me even if there will be haters for whatever reason. The only one person I have to convince to let me go in the summer is my boss. I think people are mostly salty if it looks like I'm trying to do better for myself without trying to help the people around me who are struggling, even if I'm not taking anything from them (they call me "selfish" for this). I'll treat this like a sales pitch, find a way to also help my boss and his career if I do get a job at a hedge fund(even though he doesn't pay my salary for 4 months while I'm gone).

      Oh Alex I didn't know you struggled in the first several years following your graduation from university. I could barely tell based on the success you've enjoyed lately. And yeah, there is a huge bias for Oxbridge graduates compared to other schools in the UK. It reminds me a lot about how only the Ivy league + MIT/Stanford/Caltech count in America. But I come from a similar case too actually. I did zero networking with the industry during undergrad, never attended a career talk or networking event, only interned once in the industry but it was for a shitty company and low pay. For my entire undergrad I was focused on studying quantum physics in my spare time because I didn't like my engineering major and couldn't change majors. But by the time I got to one month before graduation, I had already got sick of academia and wanted to leave for industry. I also applied for any job I could get just so I wouldn't be left unemployed after graduation and be kicked out of Singapore for lack of a work visa(I was international). I even took the first offer I got instead of applying for more jobs, considering I only got one interview after sending out dozens of applications. It was even a lower salary than the average for my batch. So I get what you mean by messing up your undergrad, and understand why you write so many blogposts about never to focus too much on getting a perfect GPA during university.

      Hmm, come to think of it the margin of error seems smaller for an arts graduate than an engineering graduate. It only took me about 6 months after my first shitty job to find a better job, even if it was in academia Singapore overpays its scientists relative to the entire world. It sounds like it took you at least 7 years to get where you wanted, which does seem like a long time compared to some UCL graduates who got into UBS or Credit Suisse right after graduation. But in your case Alex, you didn't get any good advice let alone business connections from your parents, so I think it's understandable you needed that experience to learn the importance of networking and "hustling" to find good jobs. I also didn't get any career advice in undergrad because you know my father passed away in my first year, and my mom has a similar mindset to your parents.

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    15. Hi Amanda, thanks for allowing me to be honest with you. I made so many mistakes in the past and of course, hindsight is 2020. It is easy to justify one's mistakes when you're in the midst of it - like how I was so focused on my studies I failed to even do a single internship in my university days. Sounds incredibly stupid when I mention it now, but back then, it was not like I was doing nothing and sitting on my bum: I was studying hard, I was doing loads of projects at uni, I was doing gymnastics, I had a social life, I did charity/volunteer work - so it was easy to feel as if I was going to be okay. But now in hindsight, I just wanna scream at my younger self: what the hell were you thinking?! My 20s and 30s could have been so much easier if I had made some better decisions during my time at university, but I was foolish, so I spent a good 7 years making up for it by hustling in terrible jobs to prove myself in the real world, before I had a decent CV with respectable work experience that enabled me to get a real job in financial services.

      But such is the nature of financial services: they wanna see real life work experience that will prove that you're going to be able to function well in their environment, that you are someone they can count on in a team when it comes to solving complex problems. I now have all that under my belt and have proven myself (hey I am 45 after all) but when I was fresh out of college, I didn't have any of that at all and so was turned down by one company after another. I could be angry and bitter for the rest of my life, or I can use my blog to help others in the same position so I can channel that energy into something positive and constructive.

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    16. Yeah it's good you aren't bitter like many people who can't recover from failure. And even if it would have lead to an easier 20s and 30s at least you had fun and a social life while at uni. It was simply misplaced effort, not necessarily lack of effort like you said. But look where you are today, getting to go to Portugal for a vacation before starting a new job in a Mayfair office.

      In my case when I was at uni one day I got sick of having to always be a "perfect student" like I was in high school. Sometimes there is something that feels good about breaking the rules when you've followed them all your life only because people say you don't want to find out what happens when you don't. I wasn't being a bum either, I made many connections in academia which I used to leave my shitty first job in industry. It was just misplaced effort and maybe a lack of appreciation for how hard it is to find good jobs in the private sector. But also, I don't regret letting myself fail here and there, it is way too much pressure to be perfect all the time.

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    17. Oh I am sick and tired of people who are either a) defensive of their mistakes and b) are too bitter about their mistakes. Neither approach would actually help you get to the point where you can look back at your mistakes and say, okay what lessons can I learn from my mistakes so I can move on, learn my lesson and become a wiser, better person? I'm doing this publicly because I think it's healthy to say, "I admit that I fucked up but I have learnt my lesson, now I am a wiser person." It is cathartic to acknowledge one's mistakes. I think it's okay to fail, but it's not okay to be defensive about one's shortcomings or mistakes.

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    18. Yeah, dealing with failure, and also managing initiative, is an important life skill. Speaking of which, I have a friend who is in his late 20s and refuses to find a job, just living off his parent's money. He has a degree (paid for by his parents), but every time our friend group asks whether he's sent out resumes the answer is "no", and its been like 4 years already. No internships either. The dumb thing is he says his parents are retired and are using their life savings for him, so we know the money is going to run out some time in his 30s if he continues this way. I don't know how he'll react when that deadline comes and he realizes the longer he spent not working the harder it was to get on the career ladder. But right now he gets really salty when he hears other people are succeeding in life and getting to vacation using their own money while he's stuck at home. At least his rich parents don't give him money to vacation...

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    19. Hi Amanda, allow me to compare this to a situation I had to deal with within my own family. When my nephew got diagnosed as autistic, both my parents and my brother-in-law's parents said the same thing, "NOBODY on our side of the family is autistic so that defective trait must have come from your side of the family." And if I may offer my honest evaluation of the situation - both sides of the family are just as autistic as the other and it's hard to point the finger of blame to say which side is more autistic when they're both extremely autistic. I was the first person in the family to put my hand up and say the words, "I am autistic." And my mother (being the idiot she is) said this, "you're not autistic, you were good at school and went to university!" And I'm like I didn't say I was stupid, autistic people can be good at school and graduate too. I just think life is so much easier when you just accept your faults. I could have either:

      a) accept the fact that I am autistic and embrace it, then recognize what I have to do to deal with the shortfalls of my social skills so it no longer is a problem.

      b) deny that I am autistic but by that same token, do absolutely nothing to deal with the problems I have with my social skills because of my autism.

      Besides, I think it means a lot to my nephew too when I say, "you're not the only one who is autistic, uncle Alex is just as autistic as you but look at me today, I have learnt how to cope with my autism and so can you." That's a far more compassionate reaction than simply claiming NOBODY in my family is autistic. Yeah right. As if.

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    20. It surprises me that to this day your own parents don't realize just how bad their social skills are. Whilst people like us and your nephew can fully admit we don't have a natural ability to understand certain social cues, but we can learn it like we do skills like surfing, cooking, etc.

      Btw today I was asking for advice from a university alumni over LinkedIn who works at Apple. I managed to chat him up by talking about a professor we both worked with. In the end he told me if there's any jobs at Apple I'm interested in he could give me a referral. Wow I was surprised I managed to even be that charming, and I was the unpopular weird kid growing up. 5 years ago I would've said something stupid and blunt on LinkedIn like "hey can you help me get a job at Apple?" right away. But over time I picked up social cues just from experience, a general need to be liked and have friends, and reading books. I never knew this would be so important in the working world growing up, but it is just as important as mastering regular book smarts.

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    21. Well there's a term for it: the Dunning-Kruger effect. That's when dumb people are so dumb they don't realize how dumb they are. My parents are the most autistic people you'll ever meet yet they believe that they have excellent social skills. The fact that they are autistic means that they only listen to their own version of events and the fact that anyone else can have a different point of view is totally oblivious to them. They just blank it out and stick to their version of events. They have mastered the art of hearing what they want to hear and filtering out, conveniently 'unhearing' anything that contradicts their version of events. I have been in the position before where I screamed at my mother and told her that she was uneducated, stupid and autistic; that she was wrong and I was right and I hated her. In the end, she just looked like a very lost child who was totally bewildered, confused and upset - my sister told me that it was like scolding a dog or a cat. You could beat the animal to show the animal just how angry you are but is the animal capable of understanding why you are angry, never mind learn to be smarter? Of course not, it is a dog/cat we're dealing with and my mother's IQ is so low that I have to treat her like she is a dog/cat incapable of learning things that even young children are capable of - that's the sad truth of the situation, my mother's IQ is so incredibly low that I have no other choice.

      As for the job @Apple, sure why not explore that option? What have you got to lose?

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    22. Did something happen with your parents recently? And yeah it is a dunning Kruger effect, I guess they're the types to be super defensive about their own actions to the point of using some very stupid arguments just to be right all the time. As a kid we learn very quickly how to manage arguments and that being right all the time isn't as important as compromise. But some people never learn.

      So many jobs to explore before summer 2022... But I'm glad I started networking for an internship this early. It's possible during corona! That I didn't expect. Also I didn't think this Apple engineer would even talk to me. But then I noticed we worked with the same people/projects at my University so he would've been in my shoes just a few years back. Anyway my point was mostly about social skills, not really the job opportunity even though I'm super thankful for that. There is a good reason parents worry when a kid can't make friends at the playground, because this is how people find jobs haha. Like how you didn't even have to apply for a job when you left your last company because some former co-workers referred you.

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    23. Nah, that argument I was referring to was the last time I lost my temper with my mother and that was many years ago. Even my own sister told me that scolding my mother is like scolding a cat or a dog because my mother is as stupid as an animal without a human brain, that's how my sister copes with the situation. Her expectations are so low that she isn't disappointed, we treated our parents as if they are mentally retarded idiots, so if they do or say something stupid, it is an outcome we expect. I have not spoken to my parents this year, I think I spoke to my mother once this year and not at all with my father. The reason is that my sister usually organizes the Skype call every weekend but that call is now dedicated to my nephew as I teach him economics for 1.5 hours every weekend. So instead of talking to my family, I teach my nephew (whilst usually one or both of my sisters join in to the lesson) but my parents do not join in the lesson at all as they simply do not understand the lesson, so it's pointless for them to sit in and listen to the lesson when they have no idea what the hell we are talking about. Come to think of it, it's now mid-June and I've not spoken to my dad at all in 2021 - it doesn't bother me at all as I've nothing to say to him and sometimes, it's easier this way as I don't have to listen to him talk as nothing intelligent ever comes out of his mouth anyway, I am just thinking, geez - do I have to go back to talking to them after my nephew takes his last A level exam?

      Akan datang - I am taking a break from my travel stories from Portugal and have written a piece for you on the theme of job satisfaction and finding that ideal job. It was inspired by something you wrote and I felt I could do it justice in the comments section, but that it was also a great idea for a blog post that can benefit loads of other young people in your position, who are looking for a new job.

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    24. Yeah that is pretty sad that your family can barely communicate with their children as adults, and behave more like the kids than their own kids. But I have a similar relationship to some people in my family. Me and my brother were talking about how work so hard to be so successful in our careers but our mom doesn't really understand what we do or care to ask. Oh well, thank god for friends right?

      Btw, does your nephew have any plans for university yet? I assume he's a JC student since he's taking his A levels, so most likely going off to uni after NS.

      Thanks for writing an article about job hunting. It is a really involved process that people don't really tell young people about. I only got into it because I really want to buy a used car but my university doesn't pay me a lot so I have to look elsewhere for the money. Also, that point you made about "listening comprehension" with your nephew and A levels seriously applies to job hunting as well. Like you said and what the Apple engineer said to me was "find out what skills/experience the company wants/needs, and get them." Not just show off to the company how much one knows and hope to get hired. That was my mistake during my interview with an ivy-league school last year. I'm glad I didn't make the same mistake today while networking.

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    25. Well Amanda, I have covered this in my 5 part series when I talked about my father's life at the end of last year. Many adults of their generation are told, "you MUST get married, you MUST have children." So okay, they do exactly that and they have a family, then they turn around at that point and ask, "okay, now I have children, what do I do now?" Nobody is giving them any instructions about how to be a good parent and they don't know what to do about this relationship. Let me use an analogy to make my point: when I was in Portugal, everyone said oh you must try this cake called Bolo de Arroz. So I did and I thought, actually it's really boring, it's just an ordinary cake, if I had known how bland and boring it was, I would not have bothered with it and ate something else. But I had already bought it and was committed to eating it. Same thing with having children - so many parents have kids then realize, actually this is not for me but it is too late to back out at that stage. So they become parents who are just not interested.

      As for my nephew, I think we're just focused on what's immediate right now - ie. his A level exams, then he has to serve NS and then university is something that will happen in 2024 the earliest. And here's the thing: if you wanna get into a good engineering course in one of the good Singaporean universities, you need excellent grades and I'm not sure if my nephew is going to get that. He will do well in some subjects like maths and physics but if I may be honest, I'm not even totally sure about that because I remember this incident from when he was 12: http://limpehft.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-psle-maths-question-that-got.html

      My nephew got that question wrong and it is frustrating: if you're giving him a straight forward maths question, then he can solve the equation if it is obvious what he has to do to arrive at the answer. But if you give him a question like this which requires him to think outside the box and use the power of reasoning, then he totally struggles and fails (I've had a lot of that in my economics tutorials with him). So he probably can get grades in the B/C region for the maths and sciences but he'll be struggling to pass economics. I typically give him an D/E for his economics tutorials because he can score marks on the easy questions where it is just remembering a formula or a definition from the textbook, but anything slightly more complex which involves problem-solving skills, he struggles with more profound questions that require complex answers. And I'm like, you're 18, this is an A level exam, of course the questions are complex and difficult, you are not going to get away with memorizing your textbook, you're going to need some brain power here.

      So even if he gets a bunch of grades like BBCD and fails to get into a local university, I am really going to put a lot of pressure on his parents to send him to a university in the UK and I can help take care of him here. University is as much about growing up as it is about studying and he will grow up so much more if cut off from his parents and grandparents. Of course my parents are going to think that he's an idiot who can't fend for himself in the UK but their opinion doesn't matter - we need to do what is best for my nephew.

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    26. That's why in the west people advise young people to have a dog/cat or even babysit a relative's young children to see if they like parenting. But in Asia there aren't a lot of pet owners, and babysitting is usually done by grandparents.

      I thought you would recommend your nephew come to the UK. Being an international student is a great way to learn to be independent. He can live at the dorm amongst other people his age, manage his own food and laundry, and have nobody tell him what to do or when to study. Of course he can come visit you and your husband on the weekends to hang out or to have some school/career advice. I think you'd definitely push him to attend networking events haha, or volunteer/intern and not focus too much on grades. When I was in Singapore I had a cousin who was living and working there with his family, and him and his wife would take me out to lunch sometimes, but mostly I was on my own at the dorm and university. It was a pretty fun experience in hindsight, especially when there is good public transport to go out and explore on your own.

      I didn't know it was that tough to get into a local university for a local since I was an international in sg. I also have no idea what happens to JC students who don't get into NUS/NTU, with poly students they can at least work. I guess they either go to SIM (now a local university rebranded SUSS) or abroad, but both options are expensive.

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    27. Btw is your nephew keen on pursuing engineering or computer science? Also that PSLE question is amazing! As someone who studied physics one common saying is "the difference between physics and math is not the exactness of the math, but the assumptions behind it." It's not about the formula but what sounds reasonable. But unfortunately people who miss the forest for the trees assume that being a mathematician is only about memorizing and plugging in formulas, because that's all they can comprehend, and also what is done the fastest. This is why real life math/physics projects take months or years and not 1 minute like a single multiple choice PSLE question.

      Anyway, it's not entirely hopeless, one can train scientific reasoning to a certain extent. Your husband would be very useful for that. Also he can recommend things to buy for your nephew to experiment/self-learn (e.g 3d printer, electronics kit, programming software, etc.). But yeah starting uni is very far away, your nephew has to survive NS first.

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    28. But first we have to get past my family - firstly, my parents treat my nephew as if he is a total retard incapable of even the most basic functions. They do so because they want to feel useful - if my nephew turns out like me, ie. an independent man capable of taking care of himself, then he doesn't need my parents at all in his life and he would stop talking to them the same way I have not spoken to my parents this year, like I don't need anything from them. So they assume that my nephew is totally disabled and thus need to 'help' him. Let me tell you how ridiculous they are: once my parents called my sister up at work, "it is raining!" They were screaming as if there was a major earthquake. My sister said, "yes I am looking out of the window, I can see it is raining." And my mother then said my sister couldn't let me nephew out of the house as it was raining (my nephew was already a teenager then) and my sister was like, "he is not a kid, if he wants to go out, he can take care of himself and use an umbrella. He is not made of salt, he won't dissolve in the rain." If my sister sends my nephew abroad for his studies, then my parents will just die of a broken heart because they will think that the same thing will happen - he will love it in the West so much he won't return, just like me.

      I think to some degree, my sister is also a bit like that - she is more reasonable but she is very attached to her only child and is afraid of loosening the apron strings. Allow me to compare it to a hike up a mountain: hiking up a mountain is harder for fat people, but it is fat people who really need to do that hike as they need to lose weight (compared to thin people). Likewise, of course it is harder for an autistic kid like my nephew to study abroad on his own in the UK but also it is by the same token the precise thing he needs to help him develop his social skills by living a lot more independently. I benefited greatly from the experience and I want my nephew to have the same benefits from that experience as well.

      In any case, my family has money so cost isn't an issue - rather, I am so scared they will send him to a crappy private university just to keep him in Singapore and ruin his future. Also, I am not sure he is confident enough to say, "I want to study abroad and I'll be fine on my own." I can't force that decision on him even if I feel strongly about what would be the best for him.

      As for whether he pursues engineering or CS, I don't know - that's up to him. As for experimentation and self-learning, oh he's so sleep deprived - it is pretty full on for him at the moment preparing for his A levels that are like less than 5 months away. He doesn't even get enough sleep, never mind have any time for leisure activities. All that can wait till NS when the learning grinds to a halt suddenly and his brain is itching to learn again. That's only about 6 months away mind you.

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    29. I am not exaggerating about the phone call about 'it is raining!!" - my parents think that my nephew is so fucking stupid that he will drown himself in a puddle by the roadside when there is some rain. It is pretty sad really, I don't doubt that my parents love my nephew, but they somehow have chosen to view him as the most stupid, useless idiot in the world who is completely helpless and dependent on the adults around him for help. Like I have seen disabled kids who are so mentally disabled they just stare at the wall all day, shit themselves and there's nothing going on up there in the brains, like they are that disabled. My nephew isn't perfect of course, he is facing a lot of challenges as a young man but I am getting to know him better all the time and there's a lot to appreciate in our relationship. However, my parents don't have that relationship with him - they are not getting to know him better, they just want him to be the disabled child without a brain who is totally dependent on adults to take care of him just so they can feel useful and appreciated. My nephew may be autistic, but thank goodness he isn't as autistic as my parents. On the scale of one to ten, my nephew is like a 7 whilst my parents is at ten, like if the scale went up to 11, they'll be at 11.

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    30. Lol the raining phone call. Ugh I really hate when people assume you can't take care of yourself just so they can feel useful. I was dropped at the airport just now by my mom and sister to go back to my University. And before we left my mom insisted I go drive to the store to buy a cover for my brand new luggage early in the morning. I told her "no" because I don't think it's worth the time or money, but she insisted and threw a small tantrum over me ruining my luggage. I had to tell her it's my decision and not hers and if she wants to keep her friends and family she has to respect she can't make decisions for other people. I know she won't remember this lesson, but that's how dependent some people are for external validation. I mean, she's chose to be unemployed since I was born and won't go back to work to have something to feel proud of besides reminding her family over stupid little things like luggage covers, but still that's no excuse. It pains me to see how much satisfaction she gets for screaming at me about a luggage cover as if I just left the gas running while cooking and set the house on fire.

      It's good that cost isn't an issue for your family. But dear God please don't send him to a private university in Sg, he is gonna have a very hard time finding a full time job after graduation compared to going abroad to the UK where there are more options. In Sg there isn't so much a continuous spectrum of university quality as there is two distinct tiers with a huge chasm in between.

      Yeah I agree someone with not very good social skills should be put in a new environment where they are forced to socialize. Else your nephew could just stay home and play videogames all day instead of meeting and talking to other people. Sure he could also do that in the UK, but eventually he will get lonely and will have to talk to someone, and that someone won't be a family member he already knows. I guess exploration can wait till after A levels... But round the start of uni or even the gap time before uni could be ideal.

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    31. Welcome to my world. Sigh. The problem is that my parents have a complete lack of self-awareness about how useless they are - this is why my sister told me that my mother should be treated like a cat or a dog, so if a dog barks for no reason, you just go, well that's a dog barking, it doesn't need to be understood. That's why I don't have a relationship with my parents and I think it is okay for people like us to get together and share these stories - otherwise we allow our parents to have their side of their stories and they can say things like, "my children don't wanna talk to me anymore because they have neglected their parents." But the fact is if they act in such an obnoxious manner and treat their children and grandchildren like crap, then is it any wonder why they don't have a relationship with their own children then? We 100% deserve the right to give our side of the story and support each other when it comes to obnoxious parents.

      I don't know about my nephew's future to be honest, I am just the uncle. I'm not paying for his education, I don't get a say unfortunately. Everyone in my family was so against me going to the UK - my parents were scared that I would never return, my sisters were resentful and jealous that they never got the chance to study abroad but I am strong willed and stubborn enough to get my way regardless of the circumstances and I did whatever necessary to get my way. Is my nephew as strong willed and stubborn as me? No he isn't.

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    32. I don't want to be the bad guy who causes trouble if my nephew chooses to study at a local Singaporean university - I will respect his decision as he is an adult (even if I do have strong feelings about what is better for his future). I don't want this issue to ever cause a rift between me and my family if I don't get my way on this. It will have to be his decision at the end of the day.

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    33. Yeah like as much as we have our own opinions we cannot force others to make decisions based on what we want. That's the shitty thing that your parents do to their own family, assume their opinion is the only one that matters. It's not ideal if he stays in Singapore but if that's what happens then we can only wish your nephew the best of luck.

      Hmm, I never really understood this attachment to one's homeland. I always knew I was going abroad, but that's only because there were no jobs for me in my hometown. But many people love their hometown and want to stay, so I can't really judge. But this idea of "never returning", if someone likes being abroad it doesn't mean they hate their family, it just means they like being abroad haha.

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    34. Well don't forget that my sister and my brother in law were both educated in Singapore and have always worked in Singapore, so for them, there's a sense of "what's wrong with your nephew taking the path we took? Why are you treating it as if that path is inferior or bad? If it was good enough for me, it will be good enough for my son." Quite frankly, I think they may get a bit too emotional and defensive about it as well and that's when I want to be very careful not to cause any offence or upset anyone. After all, I just want to help - this is not about me, but about my nephew's future at the end of the day.

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