Wednesday, 7 April 2021

Would national service make your CV shine?

Hi guys, in my last post, I discussed a Singaporean woman contemplating whether it was worth her son serving 2 years of national service (NS) to keep his Singaporean nationality when he is entitled to a British passport via his English father. One of the arguments discussed in favour of him serving NS was that it would look good on his CV - I dealt with that argument in just one paragraph but felt that this was something that could be discussed in a post of its own. In fact, this has been one of the more common reasons used by people who believe that NS is beneficial for Singaporean men as it prepares them for working life, especially if they are going to compete with those who have not experienced any kind of military service. Having served NS and also having been in a position of looking at CVs over the years as a gatekeeper, I am of course, deeply skeptical of people who believe in this. So in today's post, I am going to look at this issue from the point of view of a gatekeeper and how people will deal with the NS stint on a Singaporean applicant's CV. 

1. Soldiers are a good fit for certain environments but not others. 

Singaporean men don't get a choice whether they want to do NS or not - such is the nature of conscription. The government decides when you are called up to serve and how long you have to serve, when you arrive for your first day to start your basic military training, you're treated like an infant: you're told exactly what to wear as you're given a uniform, you're fed three meals a day, you're told when to go to bed, when you wake up and when all your activities are planned - you basically stop making any decisions for yourself and simply learn to say 'yes sir' to all the instructions you are given. How useful is this kind of experience to someone like me looking for talent to hire? Well, I would say it depends: if I am merely looking for someone to simply follow instructions, turn up on time every morning and do as they are told, then at least this applicant has proven that he has been in the kind of environment where he can function like that. There are actually a lot of jobs out there which are shockingly boring - let me give you an example: my friend Bradley used to work in a British bank processing mortgage applications. That was his first job out of university -so you might think, Bradley has done very well, landing his first job in a bank after graduating right? He left that job eventually as he felt his mind go totally numb with boredom at that bank; he spent each day in the office processing a never ending pile of mortgage applications. The paperwork was so monotonous and his manager put a lot of pressure on him to work fast, to get through a lot of those mortgage applications everyday. Bradley is a lot happier working in another company today. 

So when Bradley left that bank, his manager felt betrayed - he thought Bradley was ungrateful. He had a regular job, it was fairly easy to do: once Bradley was familiar with the process, the rest was just paperwork, albeit very repetitive paperwork. Bradley was gainfully employed and was drawing a decent salary: what more did he want? Bradley is an intelligent and ambitious guy who wanted to be challenged, he wanted to be put in a position of responsibility where he could manage his own projects and prove how capable he was and the mortgage department at that bank simply wasn't allowing him to do that in that role. I remember my own time in NS and there were many boring, repetitive tasks that I had to do back then - in that context, you don't get to ask any questions, you simply say 'yes 'sir' and follow the orders without complaining. In fact my NS experience would have prepared me for the kind of job Bradley had at that bank, handling mortgage applications and if I was Bradley's manager at that bank, I would look upon the NS experience very favourably, as it would mean that this applicant knew how to put up with boredom at work and would obediently follow instructions. Bradley was trying too hard in his job, he tried to get his manager to change the system they were using to make it more efficient but his manager was not interested, the bank was already very set in their ways and trying to change the process would require his director's approval, that would simply create more work for the manager and hence he simply told Bradley that was just not possible - that sounds like so many situations I have encountered during my NS. 

So here's a story from my time in the army: I remember this form that had to be typewritten - yes, there was a typewriter in the office of my unit in those days. Oh I bet you younger readers have never even used one of those before. The typewriter was in the office because there were a number of forms which had to be filled in with the typewriter - the rules were that you couldn't just use a pen to fill in the form, it had to be typewritten because it was a very important official document that has to be kept for many years and they didn't want to risk the form being illegible due to poor handwriting or the ink fading/smudging. Now this typewriter looked like it belonged in a museum, it was probably at least a few decades old by then and the keys kept jamming. When that happened, it would smudge the form and we had to start all over again. One day the typewriter just gave up on us, it had broken down to the point where the chief clerk said, "it's definitely dead, we must order a new one." I suggested using the computer to write up the form as a word document; after all it wasn't a complicated form, it would just take me no more than a few minute to recreate it on the computer  then print it off; even if we had ordered a new typewriter at once, it would take at least a few days for it to be delivered. This was 1996, we had computers even back then you know. The two officers in the room looked at me as if I had just confessed to a murder - oh the way they both glared at me! The chief clerk shook her head with disapproval and looked aghast that I had the nerve to use my initiative to try to solve her problem instead of simply ordering that new typewriter. I'm sure Bradley's manager would work well with my former chief clerk given that they have the same attitude.

2. You're not in an environment that encourages initiative or creativity. 

The typewriter story illustrates my point that in such a system, you're actively discouraged from deviating from the script, even if taking the initiative to do so would result in improved productivity and efficiency. The issue is that in the military, there's always the chain of command and even if you do make it to the rank of an officer, guess what? There's always someone more senior than you who will outrank you. I remember an incident in my unit when there was a senior officer who was retiring and he was a nice enough person, so the guys in the unit asked if we could organize something for him like a party and perhaps even make some kind of official gift from the unit, so he would have something with the unit's name as a souvenir. Oh boy, we asked one officer who then told me said yeah sure, this is a great idea, just clear it with the officer above him first. So I went to the next officer of senior rank who told me the same thing, sure great idea but if you want to spend the unit's money, you need to clear it with the officer above me. This went on until I got stuck in a loop - eventually I asked an officer of such a senior rank that he had no idea whom this person who was about to retire was, he had no idea which budget the money would come out of, so he had no choice but to refer me back down the chain of command as he explained to me, "please understand I'm not saying no to you, but this is not a decision for me to make." It was frustrating try to get anything done in an environment like that where individuals are simply not empowered to make any kind of decision and they're conditioned to seek permission for everything out of this fear of breaking the rules. 

As an adult in my mid-40s, I've worked in both big companies and small ones: I have even had my own start up at one point. The kind of office politics one would find in a big company is actually fairly similar to what I encountered in the army - whereas in a small company, decisions are made a lot more quickly. You could just walk up to the boss, have a quick discussion and arrive at a decision fairly quickly whereas in a big company, you would do that then your boss would go away and have a discussion with his boss and that cycle repeats itself - good luck trying to arrive at a fast decision. My experience in the army taught me how to deal with bureaucracy - is this a useful skill that one learns from the NS experience? Well, I think people who end up working in these big, bureaucratic organisations will either find a way to cope with that culture or simply do what Bradley did and find greener pastures. It's hardly the kind of thing that any amount of 'training' can prepare you for - either it is something that doesn't bother you that much and you're willing to accept that this is part of your job, or you could simply leave the job like Bradley and go find work in a smaller company with far fewer layers of bureaucracy where you are actively encouraged to take the initiative at work and be creative. Some people even take that to the next level by starting their own companies or working as self-employed freelancers, where they then get rid of any kind of bureaucracy altogether - when they do effectively become the only boss in charge. 

3. The men who stare at goats 

If I may I recommend a brilliant film: 'The Men Who Stare at Goats' - this is a film based on a true story of an elite unit 'New Earth Army' in America who used psychics during the Cold War as a secret weapon. The movie was a comedy which mocked the concept of using psychics, but a lot of the plot was based on true events. So put yourself in my shoes for a moment: I receive a CV from an applicant who claims to have been an elite commando, a high ranking officer and a military intelligence expert. I invite him in for an interview and each time I ask a question about his experience in the army, he replies, "I'm sorry, it's not like I'm trying to be evasive here but that's classified information, I cannot talk about that with a civilian who doesn't have the right security clearance." I then try to approach the army for his records and am simply told that once again, "I'm sorry, but this is classified information about one of our personnel, we cannot release this information to you." We are all aware of the fact that it isn't uncommon to exaggerate or lie on one's CV - so that effectively gives Singaporean men the licence to lie (or at least exaggerate) about what they have done during their national service, given that it is highly unlikely that the person interviewing them would be able to verify any or all of their claims. Ironically if you were indeed a soldier who was involved in a groundbreaking project like the one portrayed in the movie 'The Men Who Stare at Goats', you might be (unfairly) subjected to my skepticism. But if you mildly exaggerate what you did in the army on your CV, by the same token if it does sound quite plausible then I might not question it at all. 

Let's contrast this to a situation which I have encountered - I had a former colleague Greg who is from Australia. After he worked a while in London, he decided to return home to Australia and he had listed me as a reference in the company where he worked. So one day, I get an email at work from a gatekeeper in Melbourne asking me if she could chat to me about what Greg was like working in the company. I had a very pleasant chat with her and gave her an honest appraisal of Greg's performance - she was able to verify directly with me if Greg was exaggerating about some of his responsibilities in the company. Contrast that with the situation above when I can't verify anything the applicant claimed about being an elite commando - it is a lot harder for me as the gatekeeper to verify which parts of the CV are true and which parts are exaggerated or even fabricated. Imagine a situation whereby a Singaporean and an Australian like Greg applied for a job at my company: both of them only have two years of work experience and Greg can list a reference for his last job in Melbourne (whom I can contact and have a chat with). Whereas in the case of the Singaporean guy, he makes some pretty tall claims about the adventures he has had in the army but I can't verify most of the details. I'm put in the position during the interview where I'm forced to judge whether he is lying or exaggerating, which parts of his story are true and which parts are false. Whereas in Greg's case, I can relax a lot more because he is less likely to get away with lying to me; so this gives Greg an advantage as I'm far more likely to believe what he says in the interview process. 

4. Never underestimate your opponents - they can be very resourceful. 

It would be reasonable to assume that most men who serve NS in Singapore are Singaporeans or PRs who intend to live and work in Singapore throughout their adulthood. Well, in this case, as a Singaporean man who has served NS, you're no different from every other Singaporean man who has done the same thing. My regular readers will know that I'm currently helping my nephew with his A level economics, if he was the only one who is getting some extra help and none of his other classmates are, then he would clearly be at an advantage. But of course, this is Singapore and all my nephew's other classmates are getting some form of tuition, so he is at best on par with the rest of his classmates in this regard. Ah but what about competing with non-Singaporeans like our Australian friend Greg who have never had to serve NS? In response to that, may I point out the obvious: NS isn't the only way to take a young man out of school and give him some interesting experiences to develop other aspects of his character and social skills. Of course, some young people do more than others in this aspect and this very much depends on how enlightened their parents are - in the UK, I have friends who have gone out of their way to make sure that their children get plenty of work experience from the time they are 13 or 14, such as being an unpaid volunteer at a local charity. Richer families often send their children abroad for a gap year, where they get a taste of living independently, working in a different country, experience a different culture and learning a foreign language or two. These experiences will undoubtedly give the young people plenty of useful skills.

By that token, if you're a Singaporean man competing with your fellow Singaporeans for jobs in Singapore, simply having served NS doesn't put you in any kind of advantageous position over others (like Singaporean women and foreigners) who didn't have to serve NS at all. The only situation whereby a Singaporean man would have an advantage in this situation is if he was up against a Singaporean woman who did absolutely nothing beyond what was required of her at school and university - thus the extra dimension of having served NS would mean that the man has had more varied experiences. I look at my own sister who is a Singaporean woman - did she do absolutely nothing in her spare time as a student or did she go out of her way to get loads of useful experiences? My sister is pretty awesome, she did a whole range of difficult, challenging part time jobs - she wasn't just earning some money to become more financially independent, she knew how important it was to have some relevant work experience in order to hit the ground running once she entered the working world. Unfortunately my parents are quite uneducated and didn't see the benefit of my sister taking all of these part time jobs, they even went out of their way to discourage her from doing these jobs as they were concerned that it might even pose a distraction to her studies. So even though my sister got no help whatsoever from my parents, she still took the initiative to accumulate enough relevant work experience and it all paid off in the end - her first job upon graduation was with a very reputable employer in Singapore who were suitably impressed with her CV. 

So let's compare my sister's situation with mine - I had to serve NS, I didn't have a choice,.Did my sister have a choice when it came to doing all of those part time jobs? Yes actually, she did - my mother even asked my sister, how much more money do you need? I'll give you the money if you would just stay at home and study hard, rather than go do these part time jobs. Oh it would have been so tempting for my sister to just take the money, but no, my sister deserves a lot of credit for doing the right thing to improve her future prospects. Mind you, if I didn't have to serve NS, I probably would have done exactly what my sister did but because I had to serve 2 years 4 months in the army, I decided that this box of "having experiences outside my student life" has been ticked but of course, if you were to compare the two of us, my sister went out of her way to prove herself whereas I was merely doing something that I simply couldn't dodge. At least my sister had some say in terms of the kinds of companies she worked in - she had a clear idea of exactly what kind of job she wanted to do after graduating, which industry she would like to be in and thus managed to find some part-time jobs that would give her useful and relevant work experience. Contrast that to me, where I had absolutely no say in the vocation I was assigned in the army and spent 2 years 4 months doing work that had no relevance whatsoever to my future career. Did the army allow me to pick something that might have given me more useful work experience with my future career in mind? Of course not, I didn't get a say. That's not how it works: there's a saying we have in the SAF, "this is not your grandfather's army". It means shut up, just keep your head down, do as you're told - you don't get a say here. 

5. How is the NS experience perceived by someone in the West where they don't do NS? 

There will be a range of impressions, you can't assume that it is universally positive. There are some people who will associate being in the military with being in a disciplined environment and all the positive connotations with that; then there are those who naturally have a negative image of the military and thus would take a lot of convincing that your time spent during NS was actually beneficial. Now this may shock some of you but let's look at the relationship between the general public and the military in the West: in countries like the US and the UK, there is no conscription - instead you have a professional army, so this is an army made of people who have voluntarily joined the army and made it their career; as opposed to a conscript army, where the people have no choice but to serve their national service. Generally, there are two career paths in the military: if you are a graduate with a relevant degree (such as in medicine), then you get to become an officer which would lead to a reasonably well-paid, respectable career. But if you are poorly educated, then you'll end up stuck in the lower ranks; that's a career that commands far less money and respect. In America for example, it is quite common for army recruiters to target poor areas with high unemployment to offer young men a chance to join the army, only for them to be shipped out to the next war in somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan to be used as cannon fodder. Joining the army is thus seen as a last resort for people so desperate to put food in the table and support their families as it is a very hard life; so if you could find a better job, you would not choose to the life of a soldier. 

When Tony Blair agreed to support the US in their invasion of Iraq in 2003, the public reaction against it was so negative that it led to the worldwide protests on the 15 February 2003. Between six to ten million people took part in protests over 60 countries that weekend of 15 and 16 February 2003, with one of the biggest protests seen in central London with about a million people taking part - making it the biggest political protest in British history. Whilst a lot of the anger was directed at Tony Blair at that time, the mood then was very much anti-war and thus by association, anti-military. Soldiers were seen as the villains, being sent to invade another country and causing deep misery for people of that other country. Similar anti-war sentiments were seen in America during the Vietnam war, where the mounting death toll on both sides caused many Americans to stop supporting their troops - some Americans felt that their soldiers were meant protect their country, not get involved in a foreign war happening halfway across the world. These wars that the US and UK got involved with were seen by many as an act of imperialist aggression, rather than an effort to help maintain peace in these countries. Of course, Singapore's military had never been involved in anything like that, but the attitude of people in the West towards their own military may surprise you. Then there are all kinds of scandals, such as the death of four soldiers at Deepcut barracks (who presumably killed themselves after ill-treatment at the hands of the other soldiers there) have shattered public confidence in the army, thus one reaction might be sympathy. "How long did you have to serve? Two years? Really? That long! Goodness me. I am sure you're glad it is all over and behind you now - you're a civilian again!" 

To be fair, most people in the West will simply know very little or nothing about what national service is like in Singapore - thus in that near complete absence of any useful knowledge, they probably would not have formed an opinion either way. Sure, they might have spoken to some friends from countries where they have had to serve NS, or they might have read something on the internet (or maybe seen a movie or two about military service) but at best, their knowledge would be rather patchy and incomplete. They may make some assumptions based on the incomplete information that they have (and those assumptions usually turn out to be wrong) or they may simply admit their ignorance on the topic. I see that as a good place to start - it is thus a blank canvas and it is up to you to then paint them a picture which does depict your national service experience as a positive character building exercise. Though I refer you back to point 3 above ('The men who stare at goats') and refrain from exaggerating or lying when talking about your NS experiences. You would be amazed at how little people from countries like the UK and US know about national service given that NS has been abolished in these countries decades ago, though if you speak to people from countries like Israel, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland or South Korea where they do have national service too, then they might want to compare what they have experienced in their own countries with your experience in Singapore and that could be a very interesting conversation indeed. I have had conversations like that with my friends from Israel and that is another very long story for another post. 

6. The KFC range of reaction

Allow me to make what may seem like a fairly harmless suggestion please, "shall we go to KFC for lunch today?" How would you react to that suggestion? It depends on your relationship with KFC and fried chicken. If you are already a big fan of KFC, then you would be delighted to go there for lunch with me. You might also want to explore some of KFC's competitors like Popeye's or Jollibee. If you are a fan of fried chicken with a more Asian flavour, you might inquire if there are alternatives to KFC such as a Taiwanese or Korean fried chicken restaurant or even a Japanese restaurant where they do chicken karaage. If you were very rich and posh, you might turn your nose up at the idea of going to a fast food restaurant like KFC and would rather go for a much more expensive restaurant where a waiter would serve you fried chicken at your table. However, if you were very poor, you might think that KFC is but a waste of money and you would rather try to find somewhere cheaper for lunch. And of course, if you were a vegan, you would find the whole idea of eating meat for lunch absolutely abhorrent and offensive, so the thought of even sitting in a KFC restaurant where you can smell the fried chicken would be totally out of the question. I also have some friends who do eat meat but will never touch KFC for a different reason: they have extremely healthy diets and they have probably not had fried chicken for a long time, simply because they would consider it way too unhealthy, thus they would probably never agree to go to KFC for lunch with me. As you can see, I can ask the same question about KFC and get a whole range of different responses. 

It is evident that KFC is a very successful business: it is the world's second largest restaurant chain (second only to McDonald's) with over 22,621 outlets in 150 countries around the world (as of December 2019). It is a huge commercial success as a business, however, could we assume that everyone would like to have lunch with me at KFC based on the success of their business? No, that's not an assumption we can make because whether one's perception of KFC's brand image and products are filtered by each individual's preferences. Thus no matter how much money KFC can pour into their global marketing campaign and hire loads of celebrities to endorse their brand, there will still be people who would never consider having a meal there. So consider this: compared to a huge company like KFC, the SAF doesn't spend that much money or effort polishing up their public image. This is because unlike KFC, they are not trying to see a product - there is conscription in Singapore, contrast that to a country like the USA where they have to persuade people to join the army as a career instead of say working as a teacher, plumber, chef or nurse. There is little or not reason for us to assume that a random stranger would react positively upon seeing a Singaporean man's CV upon noticing that he has served NS when in reality, there could be a whole range of reactions, just like in the case of my KFC analogy. So for Singaporean men who have served NS and it is there on their CV, there is little or no basis for this assumption that employers will always react to it favourably. Whilst some might see it in a favourable light, whilst others will just ignore it whilst others may see it as a liability; dare I mention the potential of being called up for up to 40 days/year as a reservist?

7. The merits of making the best of a bad situation

Some people take a very passive approach to this issue - they had to serve NS, they didn't have a choice in the matter so they hope that others will view it as a positive character building experience. This will involve the person passing the judgment having a lot of faith in the way NS is run in Singapore. I did point out that we don't get any say in the work we do in NS but I take pride in the way I made the most of a bad situation - like so many of my peers who had to serve NS, the work I did was boring, repetitive and mundane. However, there were two things that I did to make the best of a bad situation: firstly, I did improve my social skills because I was thrown in an environment where I had to live and work with people from very different backgrounds. Now I need to make it very clear that nobody gave me any lessons on this subject - it was something I simply had to figure out on my own. The second thing I did was to teach myself French: I missed studying in the army, the transition from being a student to a soldier was a massive shock to the system and I missed the intellectual stimulation, so I chose to embark on a course of self-study French and actually got so far in that challenge that my French replaced Chinese as my second language. I don't pretend for a moment that the army was the kind of environment which taught me a lot of useful things - no, I refuse to give the army any credit for that; rather I need to claim all the credit for being the kind of person who would take the initiative to make the best of a crap situation and the fact that I took the initiative to do so (rather than remain totally passive in the process) should impress any employer.

8. It is not going to seal the deal. 

So even if you do meet an employer who thinks that NS was absolutely fantastic for you, then you still have another issue: whatever you did in NS is unlikely to be relevant to the job you're applying for. So let's look at the chronological order of what typically happens for young men who have to serve NS: they complete their A levels (or equivalent), then they get called up to enlist when they turn 18. They serve their NS and then usually start their further education, often going to a university to get a degree. Upon graduation, then they start looking for a job and make that transition from student to working adult. The fact is when these young men enlist at the tender age of 18, they haven't completed their further education and armed with a bunch of A level subjects like economics or physics, well they quite simply aren't qualified to do any kind of professional jobs. That's why the vocations they are assigned for their NS seems random - if the army needs more mechanics, then a group of soldiers will be sent for a course to be trained as mechanics. The army wouldn't expect an 18 year old to have any useful professionals skills at that age, instead they run a range of short courses to teach these recruits everything they need to do their jobs and the bar is usually set pretty low on these courses - so in the case of a mechanic, you're simply trying to teach them the basics so that they would be able to follow instructions when placed in a workshop and perform the tasks when supervised by someone a lot more experienced, so the army would not try to train them to the stage where these young men can do that work up to a professional standard.

So what are the chances of your vocation in the army being even vaguely relevant to the career you eventually embark upon after you have completed your degree (and possibly some further training)? Well, the odds of that are extremely low - you don't get to tell the commanding officer, "I want to become a computer programmer, could you give me a job where I get to work with computers?" Unless you know someone very senior who can pull some strings to make that happen, chances are you're going to get assigned something totally random and unless you intend to have career in the army, this experience is going to be totally irrelevant to your future career. So a young man who wants to become a computer programmer could end up working in a workshop as a mechanic repairing vehicles - you could argue that there is some merit to allow young men to experience something totally different in the army (that's another argument for another day) but the work experience that this young man gains as a mechanic repairing vehicles in the army is simply not relevant to his future career at all. Gatekeepers will differentiate between relevant work experience (in this case, an internship with a tech giant like Google or Apple) vs irrelevant work experience (anything you do during NS). In this competitive environment, it is the relevant work experience that really matters and will actually make a difference when it comes to whether you get hired. Even if your employer takes a rather favourable view of your NS experience, they would still expect you to have the relevant work experience too and your time spent serving NS is not an acceptable substitute. 

That's it from me on this issue, what do you think? Do you think NS would help improve a Singaporean man's CV? Can you count on most employers consider the whole NS experience a favourable one? Why do Singaporean men make the assumption that Singaporean women and other foreigners are not doing anything to try to gain some practical and useful experiences beyond what they are doing as students? Is this a case of Singaporean being overly optimistic about how potential employers may view their NS -experiences? Or perhaps you may argue that I am way too cynical this, that NS does have some merits after all, however imperfect it may be? Please leave a comment below, many thanks for reading. 

24 comments:

  1. I have never bothered to put anything releated to NS in my CV as they take up valuable real estate. I have also never heard HR (who tend to be female) or hiring managers ask anything about my NS experience and i doubt they would be impressed.

    Apart from a good waste of 2.5 years (back in my time) and 10 years worth of up to 40 days of in-camp training, as well as the opportunity and income loss, I can't really fathom the benefit of NS. It is necessary for males so as to earn their citizenship. But considering that the goverment was giving it away like candy around 20 years ago it is really not that valuable. At least not 2.5 years of your life and risk of dying over kind of value.

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    1. Hi Choaniki, thanks for your comment. I have another reason why female HR managers tend not to ask any questions about your NS experience - they don't know anything about it so they focus on areas that they can understand and have a meaningful conversation with you. So for example, I once got a CV from a Hungarian guy and there were a lot of details on his CV (which was written in English of course) that I didn't quite understand because it was very Hungary-specific training stuff that he did, so I essentially glossed over that and understood that he's had some training in Hungary but I then focused on areas of his work experience that I can relate to and understand a lot better, so our conversation focused on what I can understand and relate to, I wasn't going to ask him, "so Zoltan, please explain to me how the Hungarian education system works." That would have been a waste of time and wouldn't have been the right conversation to have during a job interview. Imagine trying to explain something like the concept of rank in the military to a civilian who has no concept of it, where do you even begin?

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    1. Hi there and thanks for your comment. Would you say though that NS does prepare young men for the working world, in at least exposing them to quite a different environment compared to the very safe and sterile environment of the school? It probably does help to some degree with that transition between student life and working life.

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    1. No worries, I understood what you said perfectly well, thanks.

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  6. Y'know in the US employers tend to discriminate against veterans, unless they had a desk job in the military and a college degree. Apparently their reasoning is that the military is so far removed from civilian life they don't know if veterans can even adjust to normal living. They also ask candidates during interviews if they have psychological problems, which is rude and also against the law I think. Also, enlisting is kinda looked down upon as something only working class people do who couldn't get in or afford university. In Singapore everyone has to do military service, so there is less discrimination. But if it's something everyone can do, it's probably not that impressive, seeing as how in the US not every military job is held in high esteem. I will say that any job, military or not, removes someone from the coddling environment of school. In school you don't have to be responsible for your ideas working in real life, but in a job you do. Nobody can make money from pure hypotheticals. It may help, but it certainly was not set up in mind to benefit the people forced into it.

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    1. Hi Amanda, allow me to explain things from a Singaporean perspective. Without NS, Singaporean men would be seen as quite naive and ignorant about the working world. They might otherwise struggle to make that transition from student life to working life - thus NS is seen as something quite helpful in this aspect as it exposes them to a taste of working life, away from "the coddling environment of school" as you said very rightly. So it's not like we're expecting them to walk away with some relevant work experience, rather it is seen more generally as a chance for them to grow up, develop their social skills and treat it as a character building exercise. However, do they all grow up, develop their social skills and emerge as more mature, wiser characters? No, not all of them, some emerge just as clueless as they day they enlisted - the fact is, this is the kind of swimming lesson where you're pushed into the deep end and given every incentive to learn to swim quickly because otherwise you would simply drown. No real lesson is provided, just very deep water. I learnt to swim quickly enough but did I get any help along the way? Hell no. I give myself full credit for figuring it all out for myself.

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    2. Hmm, when I was in Sg for undergrad I did feel like I met a lot less "childish guys" compared to my high school. It was a bit hard when it came to dating because many guys seemed a bit "dark" compared to how naive and optimistic I was. Only when I met a friend who gave it to me straight about how bad it was did I realize why the undergrad local boys seemed so adult compared to the international boys. My friend was assigned to the police, and he said most of his job was investigating bomb threats, or responding to calls about people committing suicide and handling the body. But even if the Sg system does make boys grow up a little, 2 years sounds like a lot. Germany has NS too but its only 3 months, sorta like an internship. Dunno why the Sg government doesn't want to shorten NS considering it is technically a drain on the government coffers and the economy to remove people from studying/working for 2 years.

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    3. Well the thing about NS Amanda is that everyone has a different experience - so much depends on the vocation you are given and the people you have to work with. Before I even begin to think about complaining about what I went through, I know for a fact that there are others who suffered far more than me, so I shut up. In my day, I had to serve 2 years 4 months. It was longer than and of course I think the shorter the better - NS is meant to be symbolic of course, Singapore is tiny and the two countries that could invade Singapore are Malaysia and Indonesia; they could crush Singapore easily. Having a military is just window dressing, so if it's just window dressing, then why make it that long for the guys?

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    4. That reminds me of how Germany's invasion of Denmark during WW2 was called "The 6 hour war" because it was over so quickly. Germany had 80 million people vs. Denmark's 4 million, about the same as Malaysia vs. Sg. Yeah Sg is toast if any real war broke out. Some foreigners in Sg liked to remark that NS is political, its to instill the mindset in boys that they cannot change the system. So the only options are to put up with it, or in your case, leave the country.

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    5. This reminds me of an incident that happened to me when shopping in Singapore. You know how Korea makes a lot of cute fashion for really, really slim people. I am an M by UK sizes but an XXL in South Korean sizes. Like the South Koreans must think I'm really fat whereas in the UK, I'm normal, just a medium. So I was in this shop in Singapore where the shop assistant asked me if I needed help (in English) so I replied in English - I asked her if I could get this item in one size bigger. She looked at what I was holding in my hand, it was already an XL and she said in English, "let me ask my colleague". She then yelled to her colleague in the store room in Hokkien if they had the item in XXL and her colleague said something like "no lah where got lah, Koreans don't make clothes for fat people." (in Hokkien) So the lady turned back to me and said in English, "sorry sir my colleague said no stock". At which point, I could either pretend I didn't understand Hokkien or I could say, "your colleague just called me fat!" I know she called me fat, I know they didn't make Korean fashion for people like me, but I chose to pretend I didn't understand her colleague and left the store. It's the same thing with NS, all three parties (Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia) know that in a real war, it will be over in hours, if not minutes but Singapore just wants to continue pretending that they don't accept that version of reality - kinda like me pretending not to understand that Hokkien speaking lady in the store room.

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    6. This is just me, but if a war were to breakout i don't feel 1 ounce of guilt in leaving asap. My wife is not local, and i don't particularly have any attachment to SG.
      In fact i don't wish to lay down my life to defend the mass of foreigners and the greedy corporations and government in Singapore.

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    7. At the risk of overlapping with my next post, I think people in other countries have a very different relationship with their countries. In Singapore, I was expected to be ready to go to war and die for my country - if I wasn't prepared to do that, then there will be consequences. I remember the day I ORDed - the officer who was supposed to sign my release papers knew I was going to Europe to study. He asked me if there was a war, would I get on the next plane to come back to Singapore to defend my country. In my head I thought, of course not, what a dumb question, I value my life too much to choose death over life, duh. I didn't want to lie so I answered his questions with more questions, I started asking him questions like "who would invade Singapore? What kind of war would it be? What would Singapore's response be? etc" I refused to give him a yes or no answer - I know he wanted me to say "I will die for Singapore" but I refused to say that, but I didn't say no either - I thought this is my last day here, I am going to wear you out. So in the end, the officer heard what he wanted to hear and said, "well done, I am proud of you." And I asked why he was proud of me - he said my questions were good questions and revealed that I have a deep interest in Singapore's future should there be a war, that wars must be fought intelligently in this day and age and Singapore needs more intelligent soldiers like me. At which point I decided not to say anything, just accept that I had won, I didn't want to outstay my welcome in his office. That was my lasts real interaction with the 'system' - they hear what they wanna hear and ignore everything else.

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    8. Of course here in the UK, there's no national service, no one is expected to die for their country. Even if we have regional conflicts locally (such as in Northern Ireland) or internationally when the UK joins a war, it's the soldiers who have signed up for this who go and die on the front line. No one forced them - they're just poor kids from poor families in poor neighbourhoods, they can't earn a living otherwise and being sent to be blown up in a war is the only way they can make a living, it's terrible when I put it like that but for the rest of us who are not that poor, the thought of dying for your country is a bizarre one to say the least. Things were different in WW2 when Britain was invaded by Germany, but that was an awfully long time ago and mindsets towards dying for one's country has changed a lot in the last seven and a half decades. The British people who were ready to die for their country had to be at least 16 at the end of WW2 in 1945, that would make them 92 and older today - sure some of them are still alive today (but not many) and those younger than 92 wouldn't have grown up with that concept in their heads.

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    9. Singapore is such a transactional country that it is nicknamed Singapore Inc. Our politicians expect to get paid handsomely to the tune of 16k for a part-time job. Yet they have the gall to call NS a privilege; that servicemens' contribution should not be measured in dollars and cents which is why back in the day recruits were paid peanuts (100+) per month and expected to get seriously injured or even die for their country. Such hypocrisy! At least I'm more candid in stating that if the country has more cons than pros i will have no qualms and gtfo.

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    10. I think the biggest change that has happened is that Singaporeans like you are looking at people from other countries and realizing, wait a minute, these citizens are not expected to die for their countries and express unconditional patriotism - why are Singaporeans expected to do this then? Back when I was a child, I suppose people didn't think about the world beyond their immediate surroundings - they didn't travel much, they didn't encounter foreigners, they didn't consume media from abroad, it was this frog at the bottom of the well attitude that maintained the status quo. All that's blown away now with the internet of course.

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    11. One thing I couldn't understand about Singapore was how patronizing politicians sounded when addressing their citizens. Its almost like a parent talking to a toddler child. In Western countries people know its a conflict of interest to be friends with your politicians because if they're corrupt, then its your duty to vote them out. But in SG no such thing is possible, so to me it almost seems like Stockholm syndrome when people think politicians are looking out for them like their own parents would.

      I kinda wonder how SG would be like if it suddenly became a democracy like Switzerland tomorrow. There would be huge changes, like taxes would increase to cover welfare and universal healthcare. Also, the immigration system would be overhauled and would be more difficult to get in. But unlike Switzerland I doubt SG could easily turn away refugees who come by boat, the entire NS force would have to be watching the sea borders every day. Thats probably why they legalized low-skilled immigrant visas, because it would be impractical to police people who illegally come in and work under the table.

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    12. The whole reason why Singaporean politicians treat Singaporeans like that is because the people allow themselves to be treated like children - it's a chicken vs the egg situation. So when someone once asked me if I hated the PAP so much that I left Singapore, I had to explain that it wasn't the PAP that's the whole story - no it is Singaporean society, ordinary Singaporeans who enable the PAP to do what they do and behave the way they do that I resent because as you have very correctly pointed out: this would never happen in other countries. It's this nasty, revolting, toxic mix of pro-PAP Singaporeans and the PAP that made me leave, rather than just the PAP itself.

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    13. Yeah that's what I found so jarring, how do ordinary Singaporeans not feel insulted when politicians talk that way to them? But also I feel like some Singaporeans feel ashamed to be poor in public, so they don't really express anger that millionaire politicians exist. In Indonesia its not shameful to admit you are poor because many people are, and Indonesians are reminded everyday by the international community how shitty and corrupt our government is. But Singapore has that image of a rich "perfect" country with a super efficient government, which I think this causes many Singaporeans to not want to admit they aren't so well-off even if their politicians are.

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    14. You have just perfectly explained why everything is so wrong in Singapore. I don't even know where to begin to deal with it - sometimes, it's just easier to walk away from a situation that's nothing but a hot mess. Sigh.

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