Friday, 2 April 2021

Logic, national service and a mystery box

I got into an argument with a Singaporean mother whom I shall refer to as Mrs Tan (not her real name) on one of those Facebook groups - I assure you that we were both very well behaved and even if disagreed, it was still very civil but I had clearly failed to change her mind on the issue. So let me share with you the topic for discussion: we have a mutual friend in London, Eva (not her real name). Eva is a Singaporean woman who is married to a British man. They have a 9-month old baby boy whom we shall call Ryan (not his real name). So when Ryan was born, he had dual citizenship - she registered him as a Singapore citizen but Ryan is also entitled to British citizenship through his father. However, Eva realized that Ryan would need to serve national service as a Singaporean and she is having second thoughts about the 'benefits' of Ryan having a Singapore passport vs the cost of Ryan having to serve two years of national service. She posted her dilemma on Facebook seeking advice, her friend Mrs Tan wades into the Facebook thread and cautions Eva against making Ryan giving up his Singapore passport. Her argument is that if she did that, Ryan may have problems returning to Singapore to work in the future (if that's what he wants to do), as a parent, it is Eva's responsibility to make sure that this door is still open for him should he wish to pursue a job in Singapore as an adult. I couldn't resist responding and Mrs Tan accused me of being biased after having had bad experiences during my national service, so here's my challenge in this post - I'm going to do a cost-benefit analysis of Ryan's options, talking specifically about Ryan's situation without mentioning my own experiences at all and parking my emotions at the door, as I write this piece. 
I pointed out to Eva that there was a very clear price for Ryan to pay in exchange for keeping his Singaporean passport: it was two years of the most productive years of his time as a young adult. Now there was a simple question for Eva to answer: would the benefits of holding on to his passport (ie. the right to live and work in Singapore) outweigh the cost of serving two years of national service? Hold on to that thought for a moment as I present a hypothetical situation to you: imagine if you and I were in the same room and I brought out a massive black box - the dimensions of the box is one meter on each side of the square and the material is totally opaque. You may not open the box, you may not shake the box to try to figure out the weight of the contents; you may only observe the box from a distance. I then try to make you a deal: if you pay me $100,000, you can have the box and all the contents in there. You then ask me the obvious question, what is in the box? I give you a wink and say, "I can't tell you that, it is a mystery box. You may only open it after you've paid for it." That box could be full of cash, gold and diamonds or it might even be totally empty. At which point, any sane, rational person would say, "no thanks, I'm not paying for that mystery box. Even if it might contain something valuable, I'm not taking such a risk, not with $100,000." As you prepare to walk away, I make you a new deal - the price of that mystery box is now $10,000 - what a big discount, can you resist the allure of the mystery box at the new price? But you think, no, $10,000 is still a lot of money - I still have no idea at all what is in the mystery box, so your answer is still a no. 

What if I dropped the price to $1,000? And then to $100? Would you say yes at some point if I keep knocking off one zero from the price? For most people, they would say yes to the mystery box when the price drops to either $10 or $1 - at that price, it becomes a small enough amount of money that they could afford to lose on a gamble like this because this is exactly what this exercise is: you're gambling on the outcome to be favourable. Let's say you pay $10 for the box and you open it you find $11 in cash in there: okay, you've just made a profit of $1 and that's a positive outcome. But if you paid $100 for that same box and found $11 in there, then oh dear, that's a terrible outcome - you've just made a massive loss of $89. The reason why we are hesitant to gamble with larger sums of money is because of the concept of opportunity cost - let's look at the offer at $1,000; most of us would hesitate to gamble $1,000 with the mystery box because we would think about what else we could do with that money? If I had $1,000 to spend on a shopping spree on Orchard Road, I could buy many nice things. Alternatively, I could use that money on a lovely holiday and visit a truly beautiful part of the world. Even at just $100, you could still buy one or two items for yourself on Orchard Road or take your best friend out for a nice meal. However, at just $1, the opportunity cost is much lower - you might be able to buy a cheap drink at that price in Singapore for just a dollar. That's why lottery tickets are typically very cheap, it is persuading the gambler to part with money that they are not going to miss in exchange for a very slim chance to win the grand prize. 
In the case of Ryan serving national service, he is not in a position to bargain but just for the purpose of this exercise, let's imagine that he could. Eva is told by a government official, "if you want Ryan to keep his Singaporean passport, he has to serve two years of national service." Eva says no thank you, that's such a long time and think of what Ryan could accomplish with his life in that time, he would have completed most of a degree course, he could undertake some valuable work experience. As she walks away, "okay Eva, what if we made it just one year instead of two years? Would you accept our offer?" Eva hesitates and then still says no - the bargaining process goes on as the government official keeps slashing the time period Ryan has to serve: at some stage, Eva would probably give in if it seemed no more than an extended holiday in Singapore. I imagine she might give it at the 3 to 4 month point, but that's a massive reduction from two years. After all, we have to then ask the question, "what is in that mystery box that Eva has just purchased for Ryan?" It is the right for Ryan to live and work in Singapore as a local but what is that worth? In the previous paragraph, I talked about a positive outcome: paying $10 for the box and finding (at least) $11 in cash inside. For Ryan to make the price of two years worth it, the kind of reward has got to be worth more than two years of his life serving national service and he also wants to avoid the situation whereby the price you pay is way too high and the reward is terrible - such as paying $100 for a box that only contains $11 in cash inside. Of course, in Eva and Ryan's case, there's no bargaining with anyone: the price for Ryan's citizenship is two years of Ryan's life. Take it or leave it - that is the final and only offer. 

So let's explore an outcome where Ryan will definitely be a lot better off in Singapore as an adult and thus it makes complete sense for him to serve two years of national service. I went to secondary school with a guy who was the son of a PAP minister at that time (let's call him 'Chua' not his real name) - I even had the chance to visit his amazing, luxurious home once when he threw a party for his friends. Oh not only was Chua's family very rich, his father was extremely well connected. Chua worked a few years in the private sector upon graduation - his father made a phone call and set him up with his first job. A few years later, Chua decided that he wanted to follow in his father's footsteps and enter politics, so his father spoke to some important people in the PAP to make sure Chua would be placed in a GRC where the PAP would never lose, thus ensuring his status as an MP which was his first step to fill his father's shoes. Given that his father had retired from politics by then and wanted his son to eventually take his place as a minister. Furthermore, I also witnessed how Chua was given preferential treatment during his national service - people like that were known as 'white horses' in the army, they were untouchable, you couldn't punish the son of a minister or you could get into big trouble. So if you had this kind of 'white horse' VIP status in Singapore like Chua, then of course it makes complete sense to spend your entire working life in Singapore given that you would lose this VIP status if you moved to another country. Eva's family are just ordinary working class folks and hence Ryan is but a commoner in Singapore without 'white horse' status. 
Here are the facts about Singapore that even Mrs Tan (being a Singaporean living in Singapore) would be familiar with: it is one of the world's most densely populated countries, it is third behind only Monaco and Macau. It is also a very attractive destination for people in the region seeking a better future, so for young people in Singapore today looking for a job, they are competing not just with everyone else in Singapore but also with others in the region like China, India and Vietnam because Singapore has one of the world's most foreign talent friendly labour laws. When Mrs Tan's children reach the age when they have to start looking for a job, they will be in a highly competitive environment in Singapore. Yes of course there are many good opportunities for young adults in a big, vibrant city Singapore, but there's no guarantee that Mrs Tan's children would become rich and successful in their careers just because they are local Singaporeans. What you will find looking at the cohort of 30 year old Singaporeans is that some are very rich and successful, whilst some are very poor and struggling and there's everything in between. The factors that determine how rich they become are then more specific to the individuals - whether they are highly educated graduates, whether they have acquired the training to do a highly skilled job, whether they have good social skills, whether they speak a foreign language or three, whether they are hardworking or rather lazy, whether they have natural business acumen. These are the factors that would determine whether a Singaporean adult becomes extremely successful and wealthy, or ends up desperately poor.

In the social sciences, we are often looking for meaningful correlations between two data sets to figure out if there is any kind of causation link between the two sets of data. So we can clearly see correlations in the data set - for example, the more educated the adult is, the more they are likely to earn. This is not rocket science of course. People like Mrs Tan will compare two sets of data: the first group would be Singaporeans and the second group would be citizens of a poorer country like Cambodia. It would be then evident that the Singaporean group would earn far more money than the Cambodians and thus she would claim, "see? Look at the advantages living and working in Singapore can offer you - what more proof do you need that holding Singaporean citizenship is a massive advantage?" In this case, this is a flawed comparison: salaries in Singapore are significantly higher than in Cambodia, but so is the cost of living. Whilst you may earn more in Singapore, everything from food to transport to housing costs significantly more in Singapore than in Cambodia. The true value of your earnings is what you can actually buy with that money and thus Cambodians earning modest salaries can have a decent standard of living because everything is so cheap in Cambodia. Besides, even if average salaries are relatively high in a place like Singapore, the wealth isn't equally divided amongst the citizens. So even if Ryan did serve his 2 years of national service, absolutely nothing will be offered to Ryan on a silver platter - he will be expected to work very hard to earn his keep in a competitive city like Singapore just like every other Singaporean. 
In any case, Ryan's father is British - it's not like he is from some poverty stricken or war torn third world country with so little prospects they are forced to flee as refugees or end up working in Singapore as one of those foreign workers who live in those overcrowded dormitories. The fact that he is British means that he can get a decent education here in the UK, paying fees at a local rate (whilst foreign students pay full whack) and there are a whole range of opportunities waiting for him in the big cities like London, Manchester and Birmingham. There's no guarantee that Ryan will find a good job in London once he graduates but then again, we can say the exact same thing about Singapore: that means he is no better off in Singapore. Mrs Tan refuses to acknowledge the fact that Ryan's chances in Singapore are probably as good as his chances in London - there's no advantage for Ryan to pick the Singapore route, so why pay that very high price to keep his Singaporean citizenship? The key factor to guarantee Ryan's future success would be how much money his parents invest into his education, not his nationality per se and whether Ryan ends up living in Singapore or the UK, his parents would still have to spend a lot of money on his education regardless. So if you have two options (Singapore vs the UK) which are both pretty decent, then why would you take the one that comes at a much higher cost, which would involve Ryan sacrificing two years of his youth? Hence a logical, rational parent would simply pick the option that comes at a lower price if that option with the much higher price does not come with any kind of guarantee or notable advantage. 

So you remember my former classmate 'Chua', he had extremely wealthy and influential parents who not only gave him a brilliant education, but were able to open all kinds of doors for him in his working life. Contrast that to a working class folks in the HDB estates who wouldn't any of those privileges at all - after all, we don't get to choose our parents. Hence allow me to state the obvious for people like Mrs Tan: simply having a Singaporean passport, having Singaporean citizenship doesn't give you any kind of advantage. What does make a massive difference is the quality of the child's upbringing, richer parents can afford to buy their children a much better class of education, making sure they develop the right kinds of skills that will make them a lot more attractive to employers in the working world. Poorer, working class parents are unable to help their children in that department - the kids are then at the mercy of the education system and are pretty much left to figure stuff out for themselves as they enter the working world. This is my calculated guess: Mrs Tan is probably not one of those super rich, highly influential Singaporeans and she is not in a position to be of much help to her own children - the one thing she has given them is their Singaporean nationality: she is Singaporean, her children were born in Singapore and hence became Singaporean citizens as a result. If that's the one thing she managed to give them, then she's going to make a big deal out of it and exaggerate the kinds of advantages it could bring. So at this stage, Mrs Tan isn't even thinking about Ryan's future - no, instead she is trying so hard to convince herself that she has been such a wonderful mother who has given something so precious and useful to her children, but how true is that?
My regular readers will know that I am currently teaching my nephew A level economics to help him prepare for his exams at the end of the year - before I stepped in and assumed the role of the economics tuition teacher, my sister did ask her friends in Singapore if they knew of anyone who offered A level tuition. One of my sister's friends recommend this teacher called Mr Ong - I heard that he had taught A level economics for many years and ran a weekly class on Zoom, you had to pay quite a lot to be a part of Mr Ong's class. You might think, okay it's just money after all, surely my sister would just sign my nephew up for it, right? But no, my sister is a responsible parent: she wanted to know how good Mr Ong really was, how he ran his classes, if his teaching format would actually be beneficial for her son or if it would be a waste of time. My sister wasn't worried about the money (she is rich enough to pay for the classes), instead her concern was that if those weekly Zoom classes were of little or no help to her son, then he had much better things to do with his time. My nephew already has a fairly packed schedule as it is, so if he wasn't attending Mr Ong's class, he could go do some exercise, he could catch up with his sleep, he could enjoy some quality family time, he could be revising on his own - there were so many other things my nephew could do with his time. Mr Ong's classes only ran for 90 minutes and yet my sister wasn't willing to invest that amount of time if it wouldn't yield great results. In short, my nephew's time is precious - so did Mrs Tan think that Ryan's time is just not precious at all? That Ryan wouldn't have anything else better to do with his time in those two years required for his national service? So that is really a massive blind spot on her part!

I'm struggling to find a set of circumstances whereby Ryan can ONLY find success in Singapore and nowhere else, hence justifying Mrs Tan's theory. If Ryan is to become rich and successful in the future, he would have to accumulate the skills that will enable him to climb a career ladder very quickly. If he is indeed of that caliber, then Ryan would be successful in any country in the world, so why bother paying that high price of 2 years of his lifetime serving NS to find success in Singapore when he can be successful anywhere he chooses to go? But if Ryan is (for want of a better word) plain stupid, then he actually faces a very grim future in Singapore - it is a country without a welfare state or even a minimum wage, life is very hard for those doing menial labour in Singapore. If Ryan does turn out to be stupid, then he would be much better off in a country like the UK where we have both a welfare state and a minimum wage. We then have to change our definitions about what it means to be happy and fulfilled: I have placed the emphasis on Ryan having a successful career and making a lot of money - Mrs Tan may be prioritizing the social aspect of living in Singapore. After all, Eva's parents and siblings are all living in Singapore and if Ryan spent part of his life living in Singapore, he would get to know them a lot better compared to if Ryan spent his life in England, only returning to visit his grandparents, uncles, aunties and cousins in Singapore once a year during the long summer school holidays. Yeah, that's one aspect of family life that Ryan would miss out on if he grew up in England, but sadly he is in a no-win situation - if he lived in Singapore, Ryan would miss out on family life with his British father's side of the family. It is one or the other - Ryan can't have both. 
The only plausible (though highly unusual) situation when this would work in Ryan's favour would be if he was a professional athlete: the UK is pretty good at sports, in the 2016 Rio de Janerio Olympics, the UK finished an impressive 2nd in the medal tally, losing out to the USA but beating China into third place. Yup, the UK won 27 gold medals in Rio whilst China only won 26. So if you wanted to represent the UK at the Olympics in a sport like gymnastics where we won 2 golds, 1 silver and 3 bronzes at Rio 2016, you had to be pretty amazing. In fact, the competition to represent team GB at the Rio Olympics was so intense that some extremely talented and capable gymnasts were left disappointed when they didn't get selected because the standard was so high. Danusia Francis is a very good British gymnast but she knew the chances of her finishing top five in the country to go to the Olympics was very low given how high the standard of gymnastics is here in the UK. She managed to get hold of a Jamaican passport through her father and thus she managed to qualify for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics representing Jamaica (population 2.9 million) rather than the UK despite the fact that she was born in England. She is hardly the only gymnast who has done this - many gymnasts from America have done the same thing, training in America but eventually competing for the country that their parents (and in one bizarre case, the country of their coaches) are from because there's just no way they could have made the American national team. So if Ryan does become a professional athlete in the future, then it would be far easier for him to try to represent a much smaller country like Singapore at the Olympics rather than try to make it onto the national team here in the UK. So what are the chances of Ryan finding himself in this highly unusual situation though? It's at best very unlikely. 
Allow me to clarify: it's not that I think that having Singaporean citizenship is inherently a bad thing per se, but the whole reason why I disagree with Mrs Tan's logic is the way she is unable to justify why paying two years of Ryan's life is a reasonable price and a good deal for him to have Singaporean nationality. Her only defence was, "as a parent, you would want to have as many options as possible for your child." However, there is a legal flaw in this argument because Singaporean law does not allow dual nationality - the law clearly states that if Ryan wants to have Singaporean nationality, then he must give up his British nationality. So if Mrs Tan is trying to suggest that Ryan could hold onto his Singaporean nationality and make up his mind later, then it would make it increasingly difficult for him to pick the other option of being British. It is easier for Eva to try to renounce Ryan's citizenship now as he is still a baby under the age of one - this is because it can then be argued that Ryan never benefited from his Singaporean citizenship for the 9 months he has been alive so far. According to MINDEF, "only those who have emigrated at a young age and have not enjoyed substantial socio-economic benefits are allowed to renounce their citizenship without serving national service." But if she delays that decision for a few years, then Ryan might start benefiting from his citizenship, even traveling on a Singaporean passport has been deemed as "enjoying the benefits" of one's Singaporean citizenship. I'm not sure if Mrs Tan is trying to set a trap for Eva by asking her to delay the decision but if Eva delays this decision, then not only would Ryan have to serve national service - he would also under Singaporean law be forced to renounce his British nationality. 

Mrs Tan also said that Ryan would benefit from serving national service, that it would look good on his CV. Well I beg to differ, as a woman, she knew little about how things actually worked in the army. But let me illustrate my point with a short story about having breakfast on a beautiful beach. On my trip to Bali, I stayed at a lovely beach side resort on the north coast of the island; I remember the stunning black volcanic sand on the beach. I was only there for one night as we were traveling around the island. I had booked all my accommodation in advance through the internet before arriving in Bali so when we showed up for breakfast, the manager gave me a menu with prices on it. I was perplexed as I was sure that the breakfast was included in the price I had paid - he said no, it wasn't included, that's why the menu has prices on it, nothing was for free. I then dug out the email with the confirmation I got from the travel website which clearly stated, "BREAKFAST INCLUDED". The manager then gave an excuse that this was a new promotion they did with that travel website but he wasn't aware that the packages offered on that website included breakfast in the package. So I got my breakfast on the beach in Bali that morning, I wasn't going to let the manager charge me for it. If Mrs Tan was going to treat national service like some kind of training course where the officers were going to bring the best out of Ryan by teaching him useful skills, well - she might be confusing the army camp with a beach resort in Bali. I didn't pay that much for my night's stay at that beach resort, but I felt justified in getting what I paid for - you do not get that luxury in the army. 
The men who serve national service in Singapore are paying a heavy price to be part of that system: it is two years of their lives. But as a soldier, you don't get a say in anything - the moment you step into the system, every decision is made for you. You are given a uniform, you are told where to sleep, where to work, what to do, when you may rest, when to eat, what time to wake up in the morning. Ryan would have absolutely no control over what happens; now to be fair, some people have better experiences than others during their national service. A lot of it depends on whom your commanding officer is, how well organized your unit is, the vocation (ie. your job) you are assigned and the kind of people you have to live and work with. You may be assigned to do something you like or you might be condemned into doing something that involves nothing but hard labour - either way, there's always someone of more senior rank giving you orders and at best, you get to prove that you know how to follow instructions and that's my cue to roll my eyes. Even for one night in a beach resort in Bali, I knew exactly what I was getting. Mrs Tan wants Ryan to enlist for two years of national service, with absolutely no idea what awaits him, what he might learn, what kind of job he may do and what kind of people he would have to deal with. If I was a loving parent and wanted to nurture my son, I would pick a training environment where I could control exactly what my son was taught, who was teaching him, how he is taught rather than just completely leave it to chance and luck - in this environment where he would have absolutely no say in the outcome. 

When I am booking my accommodation for a holiday, I would go into quite a lot of detail even if it was just for one night as was the case in that resort in Bali - not only would I look into details of what was included in the price (such as breakfast), I would check the photographs of the room, I would verify exactly what kind of facilities are available, I would check the location of the hotel and most of all, I would read the online reviews to see if other travelers who have stayed there have had a good experience. That's the amount of details I would normally go through before even booking one night's accommodation in a hotel or resort - now imagine if my sister was going to send my nephew to a two year course at a university in the UK and she asked me for my help to look up the details of the course: I would start my research by asking questions like what kind of qualification would he receive at the end of the course? What are the fees for this course? Would this be useful in terms of helping my nephew find a job in the future? Is my nephew really interested in the subject of the course? Are there other institutions who are offering a similar course but teach it better? What is the reputation of the institution teaching this programme? In fact I would even look up the staff list on the university's website to try to find out exactly who would be teaching my nephew on this course. The reason why we would go into such detail is simply because we don't like to leave things to chance. I don't even want to have a bad experience staying one night in a terrible hotel - much less commit my nephew to a two year course that is poorly run and has little or no benefit for him. 
But when it comes to my nephew's national service (he enlists in less than a year, mind you), it is an opaque black box. We know absolutely about what he would do when he starts his national service and most of all, we don't get a say about what he gets assigned. But my nephew is Singaporean, both his parents only hold Singaporean nationality so there's no question of him trying to dodge it - he simply has to do it because he has no other choice so we're hoping for the best (whilst expecting the worst). Such is the mindset you adopt when you are presented with an opaque box, unable to see the contents until you have paid the price. We will only know how national service would turn out for my nephew at least a few months into 2022, once he has had the chance to settle in - any possible benefits in terms of making his CV more attractive will not be evident till the day he starts looking for a job, which I estimate to be around 2026. If he does look for a job in Singapore and he gets an older male Singaporean looking at his CV then, the default reaction might be, "all male Singaporeans have to serve NS, I served NS too back in my day, so what makes you any different or special when you're merely doing what everyone else had to do?" Don't forget, my nephew will still have reservist obligations even after he completes his national service: they can call him back for up to 40 days until he turns 40 and he is competing with foreign talents in Singapore who don't have that obligation. Given these constraints, that opaque black box had better contain something incredible for it to be worth my nephew's two years. I say that in jest of course; my expectations are low, thus I am less likely to be disappointed - however, in contrast to Eva & Ryan, my nephew does not have a choice in the matter. 

Let's explore the possibility of Ryan's future in Singapore: in order to boost Ryan's chances of succeeding in Singapore, then the sensible thing would be for Eva and her husband to move to Singapore as soon as possible, so Ryan could be brought up in Singapore. Whilst I have my reservations about some aspects of the education system in Singapore, Ryan would at least have a social network of former classmates in Singapore by the time he enters the working world. He would also have ample time to acquire the social skills to thrive in Singaporean society, having grown up there and being totally familiar with the culture. A worst case scenario would be for Ryan to grow up in England, not speaking a word of Mandarin, Malay or Hokkien, then be put on a plane back to Singapore to serve his national service - talk about a fish out of water. I wouldn't want to subject Ryan to that. NS was tough enough for locals, never mind a foreigner without much knowledge of the local culture or languages. Likewise, Ryan would find it harder looking for a job in Singapore if he was a fish out of water; it has to be an all or nothing. Either move to Singapore and bring up Ryan to be a Singaporean boy with his future in Singapore, or cut off those ties for good, so that Ryan can at least visit his extended family in Singapore in the future without worrying about being arrested for dodging NS. Currently, Eva's husband has a good job in England, he is not willing to quit that job to move to Singapore - after all, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Eva is a housewife, caring for baby Ryan. Actually, the decision about Ryan's future has already been made by default by Ryan's father's job situation - however, Mrs Tan simply refuses to acknowledge that, falsely believing that Ryan still has options. 
Mrs Tan claims that the Singaporean government may act maliciously if Eva renounced Ryan's citizenship, she claimed that Ryan would then be denied any kind of work permit or residency permit in the future, thus denying him a future in Singapore. I find that hard to believe, I have done my research and found no evidence of the Singaporean government acting so vindictively against someone in that position. Would it be justifiable to punish Ryan for a decision that his mother took when he was a 9-month old baby? If anyone should be targeted by the Singaporean government (if they really are that vindictive), surely the focus should be on Eva and not baby Ryan? That would make a lot more sense as baby Ryan has nothing to do with this decision. How could he - he is just a baby. And even if we fast forward to the year 2051, Ryan is now 30 years old and a British citizen who has given up his Singaporean citizenship as a baby, in 2051, he applies for a job in Singapore but his work permit is denied. What would he do then, if he really wanted to work in Asia? He probably would just shrug his shoulders and look for similar opportunities in Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong or Taipei. Really, even if the 'worst case scenario' that Mrs Tan postulated did actually happen in 2051 (however unlikely, but for the sake of the argument, let's explore this possibility), then it isn't the end of the world for Ryan. He would probably just go on to join the thousands of British expats working in other Asian cities, in somewhere like Hong Kong or Bangkok. 

I'm sure many of you would be thinking of Melvyn Tan at this stage: he was a former Singaporean who grew up in London and didn't serve national service. So for many years, he was thus a wanted criminal who would be arrested if he ever set foot in Singapore because he defaulted on his NS obligations. Did this affect his career as a pianist? No, he had an extremely successful career! The Singaporean authorities let him off with a slap on the wrist in the form of a small fine (instead of a 3-year jail sentence) and all was forgiven because of Tan's high profile as an outstanding musician. Quite interesting, the pro-PAP Straits Times actually published an article in 2016 critical of the way the government is inconsistent in dealing with cases of men who have defaulted on their NS obligations. If the Singaporean authorities refused to allow Ryan to renounce his citizenship until he served his full two years of national service, then Ryan can never set foot in Singapore again. Again, I ask you: is that the end of the world? I imagine that there would be many holidays to Malaysia for them, where Ryan would rendezvous with his Singaporean relatives in somewhere like Johor Bahru. After all, it is actually extremely convenient to travel to Johor Bahru even on public transport from Singapore, you simply get the bus 170 and that would take you to the Woodlands causeway, you can then get off on the Malaysian side at JB Sentral where there are loads of shopping malls right next to the border or you could continue the journey on bus 170 to JB Larkin bus terminal. Would it be too much to ask Ryan's relatives to get the bus 170 to meet him in JB Sentral?
I need to end by talking about Ryan - yes, 9-month old baby Ryan. Shouldn't he get a say in his future? Of course, as a baby, he is not able to make that decision now. Would it be fair for Eva to make that decision for him? Would it be fair for Mrs Tan to try to influence Eva? I am highly skeptical about Mrs Tan's intentions - after all, if things go right, she gets to smile smugly and say to her good friend Eva, "see? Aren't you glad you listened to me? I am so wise." But if things went horribly wrong, say Ryan was forced to renounce his British citizenship, then had to apply for a work permit to try to return to the UK to find work, only to find himself ineligible for any kind of benefits. Ryan then thinks, okay I want to get a degree from a British university- but he then realizes that foreign students have to pay full whack whilst further education for local students is heavily subsidized by the government here. Is Mrs Tan going to pay for the difference in the price that Ryan would have otherwise paid for his university fees if he had held on to his British citizenship instead? Nope, she would have conveniently forgotten that she ever gave her friend Eva any kind of advice in 2021. Eva and her husband are the ones who has to deal with the consequences of their decision for Ryan's future - Mrs Tan certainly wouldn't be in a position to help, she has her own children in Singapore to take care of. She doesn't have any extra money to give Eva to spend on Ryan and she doesn't even have the right information on the legal aspects of this case, so even if Mrs Tan's intentions are noble (there is no reason to assume she is motivated by malice), this advice is actually downright harmful.

So there you go, that's it from me on this topic - what do you think? Do you think Eva should listen to what Mrs Tan has to say on the issue or do you think Mrs Tan is giving very bad advice? At what stage do I get to tell Eva, "don't listen to your friend Mrs Tan, she is a total idiot who hasn't got a clue what the hell she is talking about." Do you think Ryan would be better off with a future in the UK or in Singapore? What are the factors that Eva ought to consider when trying to make the right decision for Ryan? Or perhaps it can be argued that Singapore is indeed a better place for Ryan to have a bright future, that Mrs Tan had simply failed to eloquently form a cogent argument to convince me - so the problem lies with the fact that Mrs Tan has been incredibly inarticulate when trying to present her case, rather than Singapore per se? And finally, why the hell is Eva trying to ask her uninformed, ignorant friends for advice instead of trying to get the most accurate information from the Singaporean authorities to make an informed decision about Ryan's situation? And do you think I am guilty of 'mansplaining' NS to Eva and Mrs Tan? Please leave a comment below and many thanks for reading. 

39 comments:

  1. I think Mrs Tan is out of her dept. Depending on who Eva trusts more, she might not even want to read your opinion on Ryan. Some females can be irrational and connect on emotional basis. But like i have mentioned here, time and time again, don't give unsolicited advice. You only start ugly fights and won't change anyone's point of view.

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    1. Actually, Eva politely thanked me for my opinions - but to be fair, she did that with everyone who responded to her post on Facebook. I have no intention of ever trying to change Mrs Tan's mind, hell no. She is a die-hard PAP supporter who thinks Singapore is paradise on earth and Eva is mad to marry an Angmoh rather than a Singaporean man. My only motivation was a genuine concern for Ryan and Eva, I wanted to scream, "Eva, don't listen to your crazy friend in Singapore." The fact that Eva is open minded enough to marry a white guy and has made the move to the UK makes me respect her more than Mrs Tan, but I take issue with the way you seem to lump all females into one monolithic entity as "irrational and connect on emotional basis". You have said a lot of sexist and even disrespectful, misogynistic things about women before. I actually believe that women should be judged as individuals - I know Eva, she is not stupid, that's why she is humble enough to seek the opinions of others before making an important decision. If Eva was as brash as Mrs Tan who thinks she knows it all, then she would have already made a decision without seeking our advice.

      I think Mrs Tan is a dumb woman, a really stupid woman but my friend Eva is not - you don't know her and I have not spoken enough about Eva in this blog post but she most certainly isn't stupid, absolutely not. I can't say the same about Mrs Tan, who is downright illogical and fucking stupid of course. I would never place these two women in the same category: one is quite intelligent and the other is fucking retarded. Big difference, massive difference.

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    2. I did say some females not all. And you mentioning Mrs Tan being an unreasonable PAP supporter just proves this point. Good to hear that Eva is not the illogical and unreasonable type. But i think at this point we are just nitpicking.

      I mean we can go totally unhinged liberal left and say that there is no such thing as sexual dimorphism in humans, but just because you believe in it does not make it a scientific fact.

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    3. Hmmm. You could have said "some people" instead of trying to draw a link between their gender and their behaviour. In any case, I don't think Mrs Tan's behaviour has that much to do with her gender per se - she is a) extremely brainwashed by the PAP machine and as I suspect, b) she is the kind of mother who has not been able to do much for her own children. I can just imagine her child coming up to her and asking, "mummy can you help with my homework?" She would look at the page and not understand what the hell the homework assignment is about because she isn't that educated. Thus at some level she probably feels guilty and ashamed but she deals with those feelings by assigning too much importance to her children's nationality - ie. they are Singaporean because she is Singaporean, she has given them the right to that nationality and that is all that matters, the fact that she is too stupid to help them with their homework? She brushes that aside as not important when really, it is not only vital to her children's education but it also reflects very poorly on her as a mother.

      But we could have just as well been dealing with a Mr Tan: a Singaporean father who is equally brainwashed by the PAP and unable to hep his own children with their homework because he isn't that educated. The factors that made Mrs Tan unreasonable can just as well apply to a male Singaporean. This is not me being a 'unhinged liberal leftist' here, but simply me talking about an aspect of Singaporean culture - in particular, Singaporean parenting that applies to all Singaporean parents alike, regardless of gender. And I would have expected you to have at least recognized this aspect of Singaporean culture, rather than attribute it to gender.

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    4. Well studies have been done on the Big Five personality traits of Extraversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism, Openness, and Conscientiousness. And the average female tend to score higher than the average male in traits like Agreeableness and Neuroticism. Of course they don't know if the cause is actual biological (hormones, etc) or socialised. So there is a difference whether we want to point it out or not.

      But i suppose in the future i would just use a gender neutral term of people instead to be PC.

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    5. It would be prudent to be more PC when expressing oneself on social media.

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  2. One thing that really puzzles me about Singaporean citizenship is how claustrophobic it can feel. Singapore is a city-state, so the only place you can live with a Singaporean passport is just 1 city of 5 million residents. If one has an EU passport they can live, work, and study in 26 other countries in a bloc of 500 million people. Even if one only has an American, British, Canadian, or Australian passport, they can still move freely between at least 5 different major cities in a bloc of at least 30 million people. The thing about Sg is that if you can't make it in that one city, there aren't any other options. And housing and living costs are also very expensive so one can't go to the countryside for cheaper expenses since there is no countryside.

    Plus I don't know very many Singaporeans who would even entertain the idea of moving to a nearby ASEAN country like Thailand, Vietnam, or Malaysia to try to make it there either, especially since there would be a language barrier and lower standard of living. Singaporeans instead think of moving to Australia, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, the EU/US/UK, but those countries aren't easy to immigrate to. It seems nowadays the easiest way to immigrate is to be an international student, but that takes money. Now, Ryan could be a genius who finds it easy to go anywhere, but moving around still takes time and money and I'm not sure what Sg can offer that is a lot better than having access to London.

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    1. Ah Amanda, it's 5.7 million people and growing, it is an intensely overcrowded city. The population of the UK is 66.7 million, but spread out over an area that's a lot bigger than Singapore. However, I beg to differ about the point you made about "you can't make it in that one city, there aren't any other options." If you can't make it in Singapore, the problem is because you're ill-qualified, lazy, unskilled, dumb, unmotivated, clumsy and have no social skills - I would blame the individual rather than the city per se. So the point I made in the post is that regardless of whether Ryan grows up as a British or Singaporean citizen, his parents will still need to invest a lot of time and money in his education to boost his chances of success in the working world - the passport he holds is actually not that relevant, certainly not compared to the quality of his education. If Ryan is a genius, then the passport he holds wouldn't matter as every country would welcome him. And if Singapore snubs him, then he can say, "your loss, I have so many other countries waiting to roll out the red carpet for me because I'm the world's most brilliant scientist in this field, so screw you Singapore," then promptly flicking them the third finger. But if Ryan is as stupid as Mrs Tan, then he's actually far better off in the UK where we have a minimum wage and a welfare state, whereas he would be well and truly fucked in Singapore without either of those!

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    2. Actually Alex, you're right that making it in Singapore is tough even if you are a local. In fact locals frequently complain that foreigners have an edge over them since their employer doesn't need to contribute to CPF, and they have no reservist obligations. This is a shock to me because in the US foreigners pay the same taxes as locals, including social security taxes of which they can't access its benefits (no welfare for foreigners). You can only access these benefits after becoming a citizen (PRs can't access welfare either, it was written in my contract). But then again Singapore hardly has any welfare, that 20% CPF tax is your own retirement/medical/hdb fund.

      Oh and yeah immigrating as a scientist is easier than most other professions. Countries make special exceptions for them in their work visa caps, or even include them in "extraordinary talent" visas. But Ryan does have to make it to NUS/NTU/SMU/SUTD, and compete for a spot in a research lab to get to this stage. If Ryan wasn't given the best education then Sg is pretty rough on the low skilled end. It's not Australia where a high minimum wage means a person who works at McDonalds can afford to start a family. Not to mention healthcare costs if Ryan gets sick and his job doesn't provide good health insurance. When I was in Singapore I was frequently shocked at how low the wages were advertised when restaurants were hiring servers. Sgd $1600-2000 a month does not sound livable at all unless you live with your parents. I know there is a culture of living with family, but that is technically parents subsidizing the wage cost of employers in FnB which shouldn't happen. In America unions frequently complain that a lot of uber drivers are on food stamps, and their tax dollars should not be used to subsidize the wage costs of billion dollar companies like Uber.

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    3. Well let's analyze the situation Amanda: currently Ryan is a 9 month old baby, he hasn't even said his first word yet. At this stage, we have absolutely no idea whether or not he is going to be a brilliant scientist (ie. follow in your footsteps), a brilliant athlete (ie. the Danusia Francis case study - the British gymnast who was born in England but now represents Jamaica) or indeed, one of those struggling at the bottom of the food chain, needing all the help he can get. We have no idea. We're making a decision based on the fact that we don't have a crystal ball, we have no idea what Ryan's needs are for his future. So let's look at 3 simple scenarios:

      Scenario 1: Ryan is a brilliant scientist, one of the best in the world in his field. Singapore can either relent and let him in knowing that they need his brains or if they choose to snub him, he will say, "screw you, there is a very long list of countries waiting to roll out the red carpet for me 'cos I am the best. I am going to accept the offer from Hong Kong/Switzerland/Australia/etc now." In that case, he is better off with a British passport because he could have spent those 2 years in the lab furthering his research and achieving so much doing what he does best, rather than slogging away serving NS in Singapore. There is a massive opportunity cost when you remove a top scientist from the lab where he can achieve so much and be so productive.

      2. Ryan grows up to be an idiot, he is not a graduate and ends up working in a fast food restaurant (and even then he makes mistakes all the time). Someone in that position needs all the help he can get: a minimum wage, strong unions + a welfare state should McDonald's finally gets fed up and sacks him. By that token, he's far better off as a British citizen in the UK than in Singapore, which has no safety net at all for someone in that same position.

      3. Mr Mediocre: Ryan is neither brilliant nor stupid - he is but average. This is when the fact that the UK is a big country with a lot of rural countryside matters. On a modest salary, Ryan would really struggle to get on the properly ladder in Singapore and he would spend most of his life trying to pay off his mortgage, it doesn't put him in a good position to try to raise a family. Whereas in the UK, sure properly prices in central London (or any other big city) can be very high, but once you move out to the countryside, it is super cheap and your money goes a lot further. You can get a modest dwelling for like £15,000 in those small towns where population density is very low. My friend Darren recently bought a house in my neighbourhood for £1 million, but for that price, if he moved to the countryside, he could get a whole mansion - like a massive house with a garden, a pool / lake, private driveway etc. Mediocre Ryan would have the option to purchase a cheap house for £15,000 in the UK but he wouldn't have that option at all in Singapore. Furthermore, we have housing benefit in the UK, ie. government help for those who are very poor and the government literally gives these people money to help pay the rent - this simply doesn't exist in Singapore, where poor people are simply expected to live with their parents and that whole issue is swept under the carpet altogether.

      Thus in all 3 scenarios, Ryan is better off as a British citizen no matter how he turns out.

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    4. I actually got my US permanent residency from my mother, who was a US PR before she even got married. But my boss who has a really weak Eastern European passport was able to get work visas in the UK, Singapore, and the US no problems. It doesn't really matter what your passport is if you have either money or talent.

      As an example my cousin is an Sg PR who refused to give a PR to any of his kids (2 boys, 1 girl). It's because he didn't want the boys to serve NS, and because he works for Facebook which pays for private schooling and good health insurance for all 3 kids. His kids travel on an Indonesian passport which is really weak, but doesn't matter much since their father is rich. Passports really only matter to people without money or talent who need free or subsidized government services like healthcare/schooling. Furthermore, although it looks classist when a country accepts a rich foreigner they are getting someone who agrees to pay really high taxes (e.g my cousin or you Alex). I mean I think it's crazy how much taxes the UK charges you Alex, but that money goes into supporting locals who need government services. The UK government was probably licking their lips when looking at your tax returns during your citizenship application.

      This reminds me of a conversation I had with this Singaporean friend of mine. I told him I was sick and he asked what clinic I was going to. I told him it was a private clinic and he asked how I could afford that, and I said my company health insurance. He said the government provides polyclinics which treat people at much lower costs, and that maybe I would be welcome to use them too. I told him I think it's better if I use my private insurance to go to private clinics so there would be less waiting times for people without insurance who use these government clinics. He then accused me of thinking I was better than most Singaporeans who used government clinics, and that maybe I should go back to my country. I mean, at least I wasn't using someone else' tax dollars whenever I used my private insurance. I thought most locals would feel bad when their tax money went to a foreigner or when foreigners cause long lines at anything publicly funded. But I think this person is just envious that someone else has a job with better health insurance than them. Likewise I think Mrs. Tan resents the fact Ryan has more options in his life than she does.

      Oh yeah 2 years is a loooong time in science. In 2 years many major discoveries can happen and there have been cases of PhD students who barely graduated because someone else in a competing group managed to complete a discovery before them. Also, it sucks to work a job that you hate that isn't for you. I mean I barely tolerated 6 months working at one company I didn't like before jumping at the next job offer that came my way. With NS there's no "out", it's 2 years army or 3 years jail.

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    5. Y'know that 3rd point about how the Sg government expects poor elderly parents to live with and be supported by their hopefully more successful children, and poor young adults to live and be supported by their hopefully more successful parents is very sad. I have no idea how the PAP wins the working class vote without a minimum wage or welfare.

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    6. Hi Amanda, I don't think I got any preferential treatment by the UK Home Office based on how much I earned when I got my citizenship - it is a simple box ticking exercise about how long you have lived here, on which visa, under what circumstances etc before you're entitled to naturalize as a British citizen. So for example, take Eva's case, imagine she marries a British man, she then lives in this country as a housewife (income = zero, she is not working at all), after five years, she has the right to naturalize as a British citizen because she has fulfilled the criteria despite not having earned a penny. There are various schemes to encourage extremely rich and talented people of course, but Eva could effectively get her UK passport without even earning a penny purely through the marriage route. I did wonder if my income would make my application for citizenship easier, but when I actually went through the process, they just wanted to know if I had met their criteria (a simple yes/no answer).

      I don't think Mrs Tan resents the fact that Ryan has better options in his life than she does actually, Mrs Tan hasn't even thought it through, she has not seen the issue from Ryan's point of view. Instead, she is your typical ignorant, uneducated Singaporean who thinks that Singapore is the best country on earth, the PAP are fantastic and every other country in the world sucks. I bet she has never set foot in the UK in her life.

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    7. Wow Alex, the UK citizenship application is very dry, and I suppose extremely fair. The US process is also the same, just have a PR and live in the US for 5 years continuously and pass a written citizenship test ("who was America's first president?", etc.). In contrast, what I heard from the expats in Sg their citizenship process is very opaque and one can be rejected even if they have ticked all the boxes. They also ask for your work history, income, and "achievements." People tell me of cases of a husband and wife where only one spouse was given an Sg citizenship, while the other was rejected.

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    8. Yes the UK and US systems are much the same. It doesn't surprise me that the Singaporean system is very opaque - that's just the nature of the system there.

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    9. Hey Alex how is the vaccine rollout going in the UK? I'm surprised its going better than the rest of the EU, and BoJo may use this as an argument for Brexit. Similarly, I'm surprised the US is doing well recently too, I just got my first shot last week and only because my hospital texted/emailled me telling me its my turn (I didn't cut the line by scouring appointments in other cities, I know I'm low priority). In the US I know its because Biden helped upgrade Pfizer's factory in Kalamazoo, Michigan. But with the UK I'm not sure, where did yall get your vaccines from? Because it doesn't seem majority Oxford-Astrazeneca.

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    10. Hi Amanda, I have yet to get my first shot but I'm not scheduled to get it till at least May but it varies. I have a friend who lives in a much smaller town and he's my age, but he got his first shot already, so I think it just depends on where you live. My partner got his first shot and it was the Astra-Zeneca vaccine and no mysterious blood clots. The UK is actually doing the best in Europe now with our case numbers and deaths falling to levels not seen since last summer whilst many European countries are seeing a nasty second/third wave. The only explanation is that our vaccination programme has been successful - vaccines work. We have already vaccinated our priority groups - ie. medically vulnerable + elderly. They have all had 2 jabs, so even if the younger people are not vaccinated yet, they can get the virus and not need hospitalization, so our health service is not overwhelmed: the number of patients in the hospitals are also coming down steadily. So even if people do get the virus today, we're not that concerned as the ones who are most likely to require hospitalization are already vaccinated against it. Phew. This might make BoJo quite popular - I have no idea how that idiot pulled this off. I still hate him though.

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    11. I guess Brexit does not affect how brilliant Oxford is as a university haha. Yeah, I read a study that said that the rate of blood clots with the AZ vaccine was not any more than the general population, correlation =/= causation. A British friend of mine thinks the EU is a bit harsh on AZ for political reasons though. However it is quite an accomplishment for the UK to vaccinate all the vulnerable and elderly, Italy hasn't even started vaccinating under 75s. This is surprisingly competent of BoJo, but his career was on the line so I guess there was motivation. Still a bad person like you said, he wouldn't do things if it doesn't benefit him.

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    12. Well I would gladly take the AZ vaccine and take the risk with any blood clots - I'm far more likely to die in a car accident (ie. getting hit by a car crossing the road) than to die from a blood clot from the vaccine, I'm a man of science and statistics, I understand how probability works. If they said to me Alex you're getting the AZ vaccine, I'll roll up my sleeve and say yes please go ahead.

      As for the UK's vaccination success, all BoJo had to do is stand back and let the experts get to work - we have a good health system with very competent people who are medical science experts in place. These politicians just need to stand back, fund the experts, listen to the science and let the experts make the decisions - ie. "stay away, shut up and do nothing - you think you can do that Boris?" We all remember the fake science that Trump spouted all of last year and it only made him look stupid to the vast majority of us; even if Boris is an idiot, I'm sure he has smart advisors who have warned him not to do what Trump did.

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    13. Haha yeah, every drug is about probability. Even normal drugs like paracetamol have side effects. But the newspapers have really been sensationalizing Astrazeneca recently, so as EU politicians. But Merkel has not, and she's a scientist.

      Lol I guess we shouldn't be giving BoJo medals for just sitting in the corner and not interfering. He did go to Oxford and knows what it's like to have smarter people run the system. To be fair vaccines are scarce resources and the manufacturers have been messing with the EU on deliveries. The UK has just been offering to pay more and approved doses earlier. Not really rocket science.

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    14. Oh please, BoJo was from a rich, posh family and he read classics at Balliol college Oxford, it was as far removed from the realities of running a country as you can get (never mind a country suffering from the effects of a raging pandemic). Anyway, it's one thing to be book smart and score well in one's exams, it is another thing to have the management skills to run a country. By that token, I'd much rather put my faith in a no-nonsense scientist like Merkel than Bojo.

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  3. Ditch the Singaporean passport! Goodness! If it came with no strings attached, then perhaps.
    I ditched mine, and I didn't even have to serve NS.

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    1. Well Di, did it ever occur to you to get your son Singaporean nationality? Would you have considered it if the price wasn't too high (ie. 2 years of his life)? Interestingly enough, you were in Eva's position once upon a time and the decision you made was pretty obvious - so I am aghast that Eva is falling prey to the 'you need to keep every option open for your son' (what even bad ones?) argument as opposed to 'as a mother, you must pick the best option for your son and exclude the bad ones, so as to ensure your son has a good future.'

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    2. But what do you think about my argument that Mrs Tan is probably behaving like this because she is a working class mother who hasn't been able to provide for her children - she can see her peers doing so much more for their kids (courses, trips abroad, work experience, private tuition, violin lessons, foreign language classes etc) and so she focuses on the one thing she has given her kids: their nationality and thus when the chance came for her to speak to Eva on the issue of nationality, she makes it sound as if Eva should pick the Singaporean option because, well, that's the one thing Mrs Tan has given her children - no real reason apart from that really. She is simply seeing things from her own point of view, rather than from what Eva & Ryan are facing.

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    3. It never dawned on me to keep my Sinfaporean citizenship with the intention that my future child could one day have Singaporean citizenship as well. In fact, it was quite the contrary. I renounced it as soon as I received my Canadian citizenship. In fact, I believe we started completing the renunciation forms even before we attended the Canadian citizenship ceremony. We couldn't wait! The last thing I wanted was for my son to be a Singaporean.
      As for what one can give to a child, two years of national service is not a golden ticket to a better future.

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    4. Well, I think a mother who takes responsibility for her child would make a decisive choice on the matter the moment you know the gender of the baby (be it before birth or at birth). I contest Mrs Tan's postulation about 'keep all options open' because that's a wishy-washy attitude, she is not asking Eva to do her homework and then make up her mind. You've clearly done that. A lot of people simply don't know what to do so they justify that "I don't know what to do" stance by claiming they are keeping all options open for now, which isn't helpful.

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  4. It doesn't make sense to commit the child to 2 years of national service just for the privilege of renouncing his British citizenship for Singaporean citizenship.

    Imagine the poor kid getting shipped to a foreign country to serve as a conscript for 2 years. I wouldn't do that to my kid.

    It's an easy decision, ditch the Singaporean citizenship. Come in as an FT if he really wants to work in Singapore. If he is truly talented, Singapore will roll out the red carpet for him.

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    1. Hello Zelda and thanks for your comment. Absolutely - the fact is Ryan's father has a good job in England, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, he isn't going to give up a good job to start a new life in Singapore just for Ryan to grow up in Singapore. So by default, Ryan is going to school here in England whilst his father can make a good living here. For the poor kid to get shipped off to a country where he is effectively a foreigner, good grief. That is cruel. There was a mixed-race kids in my secondary school (half American, half Chinese) and the kids in my school were horrifically racist towards him, making fun of his accent, doing all kinds of nasty things to him. Singaporean guys can be really evil, heck, even in an all Chinese environment, they will find ways to hate and bully each other - but when you throw Ryan: a mixed race Eurasian kid into that toxic environment, goodness me, Mrs Tan has absolutely no clue what awaits Ryan in Singapore. Hell no. For the sake of Ryan, I say he is much better off in the UK.

      If he really wants to work in Singapore in the future, then yeah the red carpet treatment would be offered to him if he is worthy. And if he is mediocre or even below average, then he shouldn't be considering a life in Singapore at all - it is such a densely populated, crowded, expensive city where housing costs so much. If Ryan turns out to be average or below average in his ability to rake in the dollars, then he's much better off living in a small town in the UK where housing is dirt cheap (low population density = cheap property) and he has everything from a welfare state to a minimum wage to safeguard his interests. He gets none of that in Singapore, the poor are well and truly screwed in Singapore. They can only suffer in silence because they are not the kind of people who will be granted a work permit in a country like Canada, Australia or the UK.

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    2. Ironically, by keeping the Singaporean citizenship, it would close off options rather leave them open. You've committed 2 years of your kid's life or condemn them to never stepping foot on Singapore again unless they pay a fine or go to jail.

      It's not like UK is a poor country. If it was a Myanmar or Filipino citizenship, that would be a different story. In comparison to those countries, Singapore would be a shining city on the hill.

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    3. The real problem is the mother has already committed him to 2 years of national service by registering his birth in Singapore. Singapore does not care whether he chooses to renounce his SG citizenship after 2 years of NS. But until he serves the 2 years at 18 he will be considered an offender and cannot step foot in Singapore for any reason. Singapore is pretty illogical and anal about this unfortunately, but I heard from some sources that if you could prove that you never lived in Singapore ever or enjoyed the benefits of a SG citizenship( i.e baby bonus education subsidies ), you could appeal the NS liabilities.

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    4. Hi @Zelda: you're absolutely right. I did mention that Ryan's father is British, he is neither from a painfully poor country or one that has descended into war (and is thus unsafe). Thus there's no real advantage in keeping Ryan's Singaporean citizenship when he is probably better off in the UK since he can have that extra 2 years of his youth preparing himself for the working world. Defaulting on one's NS liabilities is a very, very serious offence. If one is dumb enough to set foot in Singapore under such circumstances, you will have your passport confiscated (so you can't leave Singapore), then you will have a substantial jail sentence (the law states that the maximum punishment is 3 years jail) + the 2 years of your NS you still have to serve = a lot of time wasted for a young man. Good grief. I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to do that but there was one case actually and the guy didn't get the full 3 years jail sentence as the judge felt sorry for him, but he still went to jail of course.

      @Ayhtas: the strange thing about the Singapore system is that it is very opaque - you can appeal, then it is up to an individual judge or high ranking official to make a decision and it is not straightforward what the answer may be. It is inconsistent and it's really not a gamble that one would risk.

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    5. Any update on what happened to Ryan's Singaporean citizensip? This story from reddit reminds me of what could happen to Ryan if he is liable for NS. https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/mrlzx1/just_wanna_go_home_and_im_not_sure_how_ns/

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    6. I did not revisit the issue with Eva - I have said my piece and so has Mrs Tan, I'm not going to get into a "hey you're wrong, I'm right and I'm going to keep on arguing till I wear you down and you admit you're wrong." No, Mrs Tan is wrong clearly but she is not a reasonable person and there's not much point in arguing with her or even telling Eva, "your friend Mrs Tan is a total idiot". At some stage, you just have to trust people as adults and let them fuck up because you can't act on their behalf. I suspect that what may happen is that she will do nothing and Ryan would either have to a) return to Singapore and serve NS or b) never set foot in Singapore ever again beyond his 18th birthday. I don't see b) as such a big deal, I've not been able to return to visit Singapore because of the Coronavirus situation and guess what? Life goes on despite not being able to visit Singapore, it's just one thing that I can't do and it's really not a big deal. So if Ryan ends up choosing option b), then so be it - it won't be not a problem for him at all.

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  5. hmm.. I think Eva should have sought advice before registering her son as a Singaporean. There is a form that she would have been forced to sign stating that her son would have to serve 2 years of national service, and the penalties should this be breached. By not doing National Service, Eva's son cannot step foot into Singapore for any reason, not even for a short stint, as there is a high possibility of a heavy fine or even jail time. Of course it's a big world out there and Singapore could be avoided entirely, but there will be a big hassle if he needs to visit an ailing relative here or enter for work purposes. They have gotten very strict with this lately and this is something Eva should consider.

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    1. Hi Ayhtas - I thus present the bus 170 that takes Singaporeans across the border to Johor Bahru. His relatives could either get off at the border checkpoint and then walk over to the malls at JB Sentral (takes a few minutes) or continue on the 170 to JB Larkin Bus terminal. That's a solution - he won't be able to visit an ailing relative too sick to leave the hospital bed though and work trips are out of the question. But given how the world is such a different place after the pandemic, we've all gotten so used to Zoom calls instead of meeting our clients in person so I doubt the business trip to Singapore is going to be that essential in the future. And don't forget, Ryan can still set foot in Singapore without risk of arrest until the day he is called up for NS (at 18), then he can no longer do so.

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  6. Thanks for the post enjoyed reading it.

    A belief I noticed that is common among older people who haven't served NS (I wonder if you would agree with me) is they overvalue the supposed 'character development' which supposedly occurs during NS. Many of them have taken Jack Neo's movies too literally and believe that every Singaporean man 'must' serve NS as an exercise in character development. This is not a rational belief (on the contrary, it is absolute nonsense) and not something you can reason them out of and why Mrs Tan probably doesn't even see the two years as precious time lost but instead as a 'rite of passage' that is necessary.

    Of course, anyone who has actually been through the two years knows the reality of the situation and how much it depends on the character and beliefs of someone actually serving it. By that measure there are plenty of more useful things Ryan could do with those two years like starting his studies away from his parents to become more independent or take a gap year.

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    1. Hi Tarun, I'd like to compare & contrast the attitudes between Singaporean men who have served NS and Singaporean women who have not. The men's attitude would be shaped by their own experiences, so those who have had a positive experience will think it is a useful rite of passage whilst those who have had a bad experience will probably think it is a waste of time. Whereas the women generally have a very positive image of NS because they're brainwashed by the government and I saw this with my sister: when she was at NUS, there were all these guys trying to ask her out on a date and one of the things they did was brag about the macho stuff they did in the army. And I'm like, yeah right, I bet there's a lot of exaggeration going on, I will take what they say with a pinch of salt. Women thus get these stories filtered through guys who are unwilling to share the ugly side of NS with them out of fear that they will lose face or appear weak if they admitted they had a hard time in NS.

      I actually have mixed feelings about NS, the system is thoroughly fucked up of course, but I did grow a lot - but it's not as if there was anybody in the army taking care of me teaching me stuff. Hell no, nobody gave a shit about me in the army, I have to give myself credit for figuring out a lot of stuff for myself, especially when it came to developing my social skills in order to get along with people around me. It was like throwing a kid into a swimming pool, knowing the kid doesn't know how to swim and then telling the kid, hey now's a good time to learn how to swim, you're in the deep end, the water is 2.5 meters deep - good luck! It would be a cruel way to teach a child how to swim, the same way it was a cruel way to teach me how to improve my social skills. Did I grow up during my time in the army? Yes. Was it an exercise in character development? Yes. But do I give the system or individuals in the SAF any credit for it? Hell no. I take all the credit for any benefit I derived from that experience.

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  7. Hello Limpeh! Can I just say I really love this blog post of yours... I find myself nodding in agreement with everything you wrote.

    I can identify with your post as I have a daughter and a son with my Chinese Australian husband. I'm 100% Singaporean and love Singapore because my family and friends are there. If you met me in person, you would think that even though I've lived in Australia and HK since I got married in 2015, I'm still very quintessentially Singaporean.

    Anyway, I applied for three citizenships for my daughter, namely Hong Kong, Australian and Singaporean. As for my son, he only has Hong Kong and Australian citizenship. Much as I love Singapore, I knew that the costs of him having Singaporean citizenship would most likely outweigh the benefits. In fact before my son was born, it was clear to me that it wasn't in my son's best interests to hold Singaporean citizenship. My dad tried to convince me to apply for Singaporean citizenship for my son but I firmly refused. The thought of my son having to give up two citizenships in order to keep the Singaporean one makes me shudder, much as I love Singapore. Worse, if he wants to keep the other two citizenships, he has to serve his NS obligations before he can renounce his Singaporean citizenship. It is simply not worth it at all!

    I want my son to be able to come and go freely without fear of being prosecuted for not serving NS should circumstances not allow him to come back to Singapore to serve. It also crossed my mind that if he really wants to work in Singapore when he's an adult, he can always try to come in as an FT.

    I really hope and pray your friend Eva can see all these facts for herself and make an informed decision!

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    1. Hi Wanjun. Exactly. There's actually a massive advantage for your son to work as an FT in Singapore - no NS, no reservist, no CPF contribution, he is so much better off as an FT in Singapore compared to a Singaporean local man. That is why Mrs Tan's advice was wrong on so many levels as she wasn't thinking it through properly - after having done your homework, you've arrived at the most logical conclusion of course.

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