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Are you ready to take the plunge and seek greener pastures? |
1. The weather is getting from bad to worse.
Ironically, the one aspect of life in Singapore I hate the most is the unbearably hot weather - and you can't even blame the PAP for that. But in recent years, the haze problem has gotten from bad to worse - every year around this time, haze season will hit Singapore and for weeks, Singaporeans will hope for rain to clear the skies and even when it does, it only brings a temporary reprieve that lasts a few hours before the next cloud of haze drifts over from Indonesia. This is a problem that cannot be solved given how corrupt and ineffective the Indonesian government is - it is not like Singapore can send in the troops to put out the fires in Sumatra. With no solution in sight, the problem is just going to get worse and worse - Singapore will end up as polluted as some of cities in China and India and there's little you can do to solve the problem as it originates across the border in another country! My friends in Singapore who have asthma are suffering particularly badly at the moment and many are not allowing their children to play outdoors when it is this hazy. So, for the sake of your health and the health of your family, this is a very good reason to consider moving to a far less polluted country where you simply don't have to worry about the quality of the air you breathe.
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Hazy day at lunchtime |
With the overwhelming endorsement by the voters, the PAP certainly have the mandate to go ahead and increase the population to 6.9 million. What will life in Singapore be like when the population increases to 6.9 million (and more)? The pressure on public transport, housing, schools, education, healthcare will all increase and the 2015 MRT breakdowns have shown that the system is near breaking point already. This will hit those at the bottom of the food chain the hardest. The rich can afford to drive or take taxis - they don't have to try to get on the MRT at rush hour. The rich can always afford the fancy condominiums in town and don't have to worry about the HDB's waiting list. The rich can always afford to buy their children the best education they need even if the local schools are stretched to the limit. As for healthcare, the rich can always afford to go private and not worry about waiting times at the government hospitals. But if you are poor in Singapore, then oh dear - good luck to you. The good news is that if you want to move abroad to another country, it will depend on you having the right skills, rather than money per se. Thus a fully qualified nurse will find it very easy to move to the West and get a work permit there, but a rich person without the right skills will simply not be able to get a visa unless he is willing to become an investor (and in the UK, that is set at £2 million).
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Changing trains at Bishan station |
3. The situation in the Europe is changing fast.
With the current refugee crisis in Europe, the West doesn't quite know what to do with this massive influx of mostly Syrian refugees (but also from countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Eritrea and Yemen). Some countries like Sweden, Germany and Austria have been extremely welcoming to these refugees, whilst others like Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and the UK have resisted calls to let in more refugees. As of September, the EU has already received 0.6 million refugees pouring in since the beginning of the year and the number is still rising. Many of the refugees are not satisfied once they have reached a safe but poor country like Bulgaria, Romania or Turkey, many are willing to risk their lives to reach a richer country like Germany or the UK for a better life. Something has got to give with this massive influx of refugees and one of the side effects is that those refugees with useful skills will be able to find work quickly, filling in gaps in the labour market which would have been traditionally be filled by foreign workers. These European governments are keen for the refugees to start working quickly, rather than become reliant on the state for support, so these gaps in the labour market which other non-EU migrants hoping to fill will close very quickly indeed.
I have so many friends who were desperately disappointed and frustrated the day after the election, given the massive swing to the PAP. Like I said on my blog, I was not frustrated as I never got my hopes up in the first place. I just don't envisage the situation changing much in the next few elections and whilst I have a lot of admiration for my friends who went to those opposition rallies and tried so hard to win the hearts and minds of their fellow voters, I guess I just don't have their kind of patience. I pick my battles in life and I would rather not bother with one which I know I can't win because the odds are simply stacked against me. So as much as I would like to see the opposition triumph in Singapore, I think it is far easier to leave and seek greener pastures abroad.
Furthermore, I have seen way too many incidences of Singaporeans who merely stand back and film an incident whilst allowing the helpless victim to continue being attacked. I just wanna scream, what the hell is wrong with you people - if it was your mother being attacked, would you stand back and just film it? You can debate all you want about the culture of passivity and Stomp etc - but when I was in Singapore, I read about a woman who was raped in a car park in Singapore and there were witnesses who chose not to intervene, but one took photos. Great. I hope the witness who took photos gets attacked in a similar way, so I may stand by and film the attack - let's give that witness a taste of his/her own medicine. There's something totally rotten about Singaporean society, it has become incredibly selfish.
5. So many people have left already, what is holding you back?
One thing that I try to do each time I go back to Singapore is to try to track down old friends and each time I go back, I find that more and more old friends have left Singapore for greener pastures abroad - they are everywhere from Australia to America to Canada to Thailand. Some have planned the move for years, others were offered the chance to work abroad and took it. Moving abroad is a process that starts with working abroad for a few years before you earn your right to permanent residency in that country Most of my friends simply start of working abroad thinking, oh it's just for a a year or two, let's have some international experience to beef up my CV and return to Singapore once I complete the contract but as they get a taste of what life is like abroad, once they have a taste of the greener pastures abroad, very few return, once they realize there is a much better alternative to the kind of life that the PAP offers.
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Have you ever had a taste of living abroad? |
6. The next generation shouldn't listen to the last generation.
This was a topic that I have actually raised with my dad - now my father is in his late 70s and doesn't speak English. He was (and probably still is) extremely racist towards white people and his default position is that all white people hate all Asian people and what evidence does he have for this? It is just an assumption of mutual hatred - if he hates white people, therefore white people must hate him in return. I know, it is a stupid assumption and makes no sense whatsoever. Well one day, we were talking about my neighbour's family (my parents had lived next to this family for 35 years) and one of the daughters of this family is now based permanently in America so I took the chance to explain this gently to my father, that times have indeed changed and that our generation have a very, very different relationship with the West, that he should take a moment to consider things from our point of view.
I told my father that both my neighbour's daughter and I spoke English as a first language and we were brought up with a very western education system; thus it was far easier for us to assimilate in the West. We can do things that he can't (given that he can't speak English) : we can get good jobs, get work, make friends and it goes beyond overcoming the language barrier: it means being able to thrive in the West in a way my parents' generation would have never. My dad didn't contradict me and he even went as far as to tell me just how well our neighbour's daughter is doing in America, so obviously she is doing something right (though he wasn't quite able to define what it was). I am so glad that even people like my father are receiving positive messages about ex-Singaporeans who have moved to the West as this was clearly not the case a generation ago (remember uncle Norman). Come on people. We need a new narrative for 2015, let's ignore the racist, pessimistic narrative that the older generation has tried to feed us.
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Unlike my father, I adore France. |
7. The work culture is just insane
The Singaporean work culture is just insane - I have said this time and time again, I genuinely hope that you guys enjoy your jobs because you are spending practically every waking hour working. Let's look at Germany in contrast, where the average working week is just 35.6 hours. My sister regularly puts in 10 to 12 hours a day at the office, 6 days a week, I have no idea how the hell she does it. Don't get me wrong, she is very well paid but good grief, it leaves her with barely time to get enough sleep! I asked her if she could reduce her working hours and she just laughed it off - she doesn't have a choice as everyone in her company is working just as hard and she simply has to conform to the culture of working very long hours. Yikes. Aiyoh. No thanks. Do you prefer working 35 or 70 hours a week?
8. The increasing polarization of Singaporean politics.
There is a rising group of hardcore PAP supporters who seem to equate being patriotic to pledging one's loyalty to the PAP and by that same token, anyone who doesn't support the PAP is somehow anti-Singapore. They have this, "if you can't beat them, you may as well join them" attitude. These people are so warped in their thinking that they are oblivious to just how twisted their logic is and if you are an opposition supporter, well, how would you like to live in a country where people like that are the majority and you're in the minority? There is little wonder why Singapore is ranked 153rd in the world's press freedom index (sandwiched between Russia and Libya) - Singaporeans are just so oblivious to how awful the situation is when it comes to the freedom of speech and having a free press. Is this something that bother you? If it does, then it's time to leave Singapore because this is something that won't change.
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Do you have faith in the PAP? |
9. The property ladder that many will never climb.
Think about it - Singapore's land is finite, it is a very small country (718 km²). What do you think is going to happen to the price of properties if you keep on increasing the population? You don't need to be an economist to work out that it is simply going to push property prices up and up - which means many Singaporeans will continue to live with their parents way into their adult lives. With the population in Singapore projected to keep growing, you do the maths. Let's look at the situation in Finland for a comparison. Finland's population is practically identical to that of Singapore but Finland is way bigger at 338,424 km² - that means that there's far more space in per person, Finnish cities are far less congested and property prices are a lot more affordable in Finland. That means that your average Finnish adult will find it far easier to get on the property ladder than his Singaporean counterpart. Of course, if you're very rich, then you can afford the expensive condominiums in Singapore, but if you're not and you would like to get on the property ladder, then consider moving to a country like Finland. I've been there and it is absolutely stunning, I love Finland!
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In Porvoo, Finland with my friend Kai. |
10. In case you haven't realized, there's a big world out there...
Even if you are not bothered by any of points discussed above, here's a simple point for you to consider: there's a wonderful world out there, beyond the shores of Singapore. There are beautiful cities with exciting opportunities for young people, there are wonderful people to meet and befriend, there are so many interesting countries and communities to discover - the world out there really isn't scary but truly amazing. Now once again, the concept that "the world outside Singapore is scary and Singapore is the only place in the world I feel safe" is a mindset that is common amongst the older generation, people like my father who don't speak English and have not traveled much do think like that - he totally hates the idea of travel and holidays. Now it stuns me that there are younger Singaporeans who actually do still think like that, mostly because they have not ever had the opportunity to study or work abroad yet - so they default to fear and pessimism, this is but a reflection of their lack of self-confidence. You don't need to think like your parents' generation my friends. Give this wonderful world a chance, you won't be disappointed.
So if you haven't already started thinking about leaving Singapore yet, perhaps you want to tell me about what is keeping you in Singapore? Let's have a conversation about this - leave a comment below. Many thanks for reading.
I'm staying because everytime I try to get to Changi airport the MRT breaks down...
ReplyDeleteJust joking. If given the chance I would walk or swim my way out. Can't wait to leave.
Good luck with that my friend!
DeleteBeen seriously thinking about it. And I gave up an opportunity to work in Australia 5 years ago due to a major life decision that I decided to stay in Singapore. Well it ended up a bad choice. My Australian BSc is actually a good stepping stone, but I've lost touch from my scientific industries for around 2 years. Looks like chances are slim and perhaps heading back school to advance my degree would be my best bet. But this would mean giving up what I'm currently doing (which is art) and move back to Science. Though I clearly understand the scientific scene in Australia is definitely much better, research is mainly bounded by grants. If I advance too much to get myself a phD if I'd like to stay longer, becoming overly qualified may be an issue. Besides, it also means I'd have to reassess myself and understand why I should go back to Science, and not just 'cos I'm in desperate need to leave Singapore. That's the dilemma I'm facing.
ReplyDeleteSo Katie, how do any of the ten factors I have listed affect you? Do they affect you much or not at all? Cos you don't seem to be desperate to leave Singapore...
DeleteHaha in fact I do have more than 10 reasons to leave. Yes I agree all u stated above and it sucks to stay! Can't deny and in particular being a dyslexia, it's even a convincing factor since I'll be forever discriminated. Anyway Singapore by and large is a discriminating nation. Besides that re-assessing myself, I'm currently bound by some ridiculous laws due to the bad choice I made in life, I'll need to settle that. Goodness! Looks like I need to set up another blog like u and talk abt another POV from a paradoxical woman struggling to live in Singapore. Lol! Perhaps when I manage to leave.
Delete"Scientific scene in Australia is definitely much better". Sounds quite incredible to me. Just my uneducated perception.
DeleteIn Oz, most people don't really like to study. But by that token, academics in Oz would face relatively less competition imho, compared to being in sg. Yet there's more exposure, if it makes sense.
And there's a lot of people who wouldn't mind going overseas, yet wouldn't mind staying in Sg. I guess they just choose the path of least resistance and go with the flow. Which has kind of become my philosophy in life... :p
-S
You know what the irony is? The people who, like you described, don't really mind staying in Singapore are those who are doing pretty okay - ie. decent job, enough money, probably managed to get on the property ladder etc. Those are the ones who are most able to leave Singapore and get work abroad. But those who are most desperate to leave Singapore are probably far less able to get a work permit in the West.
DeleteNeurotic Ramblings - Barry J. Marshall, an Australian is a Nobel Prize Laureate for his discovery on the causative link between the bacterium Helicobacter pylori and gastric cancer. This is the kind of scientific scene they have even it may seem (to you) that they are not really working hard. One major difference between Singapore and Australia is the restriction of freedom to follow curiosity, all work has to be under the jurisdiction of the government. This actually forbid discovery.
DeleteAlas, despite the dilemma I'll just leave whenever opportunity comes.
Hi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteAlthough I'm not in Singapore now, I would say most of those 10 reasons don't apply to me.
1. Crazy as it sounds, I miss Singapore's weather because I'm someone who has low tolerance of the cold. But, weather isn't that important since I came to a city with harsh winters.
4. I'm not anti-PAP, though I think having more opposition in the parliament would be healthy, and also provide the opposition opportunities to grow and mature. I am very bothered by how many oppositions are playing the 'anti-PAP' or 'check-PAP' card, when I feel that they should be playing the 'pro-my-party' card. When can we ever have an opposition that can confidently and mainly say "I can do a better job than PAP"?
5. I think for most people, they would know more people who have stayed than left. And personally, I know of a few people who would give up opportunities to go abroad because their gfs/bfs are in Singapore. And ultimately, I think for most people, the friends and families in Singapore are what that binds them to the country.
7. Hasn't affected me yet, but I agree with you on this. I know there're arguments that work-life balance is something you earn as you climb the ranks, not an entitlement to the employees. However, I think there's a huge difference between having limited time for yourself and having no time at all. We're not slaves.
8. I guess it's similar to 4. Though I agree with you that this is one of the push factors? The political climate in Singapore seems so childish, though I would blame it on the people rather than on the PAP. Because if let's say WP becomes the ruling party, I doubt much will change.
9. Consider me naive, but I think that while property prices are going to get more and more expensive, it's still not unattainable for the middle income.
10. I think this is the main reason I'm leaving Singapore. It's simply too small. I feel that it's a pity that many Singaporeans have a Singapore-centric world view, when it's really really small.
I believe that no matter the reason, for people who ultimately choose to leave Singapore, they each will have their own personal reasons and sacrifices made to reach that decision. Not everyone can leave Singapore in a heartbeat like you do. =)
Hi Neon Gas. I didn't "leave Singapore in a heartbeat" - I think you're misrepresenting the situation.
DeleteLet me break it down for you.
After NS, I got a scholarship to study at a British University - the scholarship was from the university itself and came with no bond, it was a great honour so I took it and studied there for 3 years.
Then when I graduated, I was like, okay what I do next? Where can I get a job? I managed to get a job in London and so I stayed on after graduation and then it was more a question of "well I am gainfully employed here in the UK, I am lucky to have a good job, I am very happy where I am and there's little to draw me back to Singapore." Note that I am not at all close to my parents (it takes two hands to clap, I have blogged recently about how my parents have virtually zero interest in me these days - they officially have no idea what I do for a living).
In any case, it was a very organic process that took many, many years - as to how I ended up in the UK today and not in Singapore. Had I not been lucky enough to have been awarded that scholarship, who knows where I may have ended up?
So please don't try to imply that the decision to leave Singapore was taken 'in a heartbeat' - it was a process that took over 10 years.
I think many Singaporean parents like the image of a son or daughter sticking by them and adoring them, continuing to uphold dubious or patriarchal Asian or simply Singaporean mindsets. In this sense, many Singaporeans' parents love is very conditional. How much money can you give them per month? Aka their returns on investment and your relation to their pride or image maintenance. I think it's kind of learnt helplessness not leaving Singapore. And high cost of living or further education that would help one advance overseas. Thanks for your ramblings. Really hard to find a non-dead thinker in Singapore. Or rather out of Singapore! ~
DeleteI agree with all your points. I have been living away from Spore for 8 years now and I can't see myself going back. While the country has become very wealthy, there is something lacking. The attitude of a lot of my friends back in Spore is very xenophobic. They are constantly trying to run the West and America down. It's this siege mentality that I find childish. This attitude permeates many levels of society, especially the senior levels of government and the civil service. It is this kind of superior mentality that will lead to their undoing. In fact, I believe it is a deep-seated inferiority complex. The people spoke at GE15. I felt it was a sad indictment of a country. Change will come. When it does, it will be a bitter pill to swallow for many.Singaporeans fell for the fear of change. The main stream media played on people's fear of a opposition takeover. How irrational is that? As soon as the results were announced, someone I know texted me 'great, property prices will rise'. Of course he is happy since his senior position in the civil has given him the financial ability to amass an impressive property portfolio. But, how long is that sustainable before the average Singaporean worker comes to the realization that his wages are artificially suppressed so that MNCs still find Spore attractive. I wonder how many ordinary workers know that the NTUC officials are all earning mega salaries compared to them. I suppose I am one of the few lucky ones who is able to leave. Many are not. For those left behind, you have to put up with an elite 'mandarin class' who will run the affairs of the country. They will continue to perpetuate this siege mentality and it is an effective strategy where you are able to convince Sporeans that the world is jealous of their success and out to destroy you. So, stick with the PAP and all will be well. The Opposition is part of this foreign conspiracy.
ReplyDeleteSiege mentality is basically what Singapore is built upon as a country. No one can deny that. The opposition members such as Chen Show Mao and Chee Soon Juan have often been made out by the media to be part of some pro-American, anti-Singaporean, conspiracy theory, in which they "conspire" with the USA to bring about a US-western model of democracy and liberalism into the country via the opposition, and that has often been raised via the comments section and various other propagandistic wings of the PAP-majority government. The fact that the large proportion of Singaporeans are not aware of this, but even buy it full-scale tells a lot about their mindset when information is accessible online now which would contradict what they read and hear on mainstream media.
DeleteAll these conspiracy theories about Chee Soon Juan being a US mole just makes me laugh! Honestly do people really think Singapore is such an important player in the world stage, that an economic giant like the US should spend time and resources to destroy her? They have bigger fish to fry.
DeleteWhere do I even begin Ayhtas K .... ?!?!?!?!
DeleteI am happy that i am not alone with this.
Deletethe influx of new citizens and FTs is really high and it is getting very disguesting
when the PAP can't even fix the infra issue to handle such high numbers yet they wan't to continue bringing more people.
i am a 20syr old male living in SG, and i am really stuck in this god forsaken country.
i dunno why so many singaporeans still vote for the PAP and they are contantly screwing us dayby day by importing 20000 new citizens every year.
i am really proud of u that you made it out of this shit hole
singapore has lost its nationality @Limpeh Foreign Talent
Well why don't you leave then - as the article suggests?!?!
DeleteGood to see that you listed weather as the first reason, makes me feel less superficial for staying away. The unbearably hot weather is the main reason that I am hesitant about moving back (plus the wonderful winter wear I will not be able to wear, ok I am superficial) as I have made peace with all the other reasons you listed. But who knows I may move back when arthritis sets in.
ReplyDeleteBeing away for 15 years and now that I am much older, the youthful dissatisfaction and disdain for all things Singaporean is gradually turning into a desire to return to the 'village', 'fun heong ha' as the old folks would say in Cantonese. Ermm.. time to make a trip back and take the crowded MRT to cure my 'absence makes the heart fonder' sentiment.
Hi there. Oh the point about the weather is that the haze is really bad at the moment - it's gotten to the point where it is affecting visibility and health. Two days back in hazy Singapore and I bet you've had enough of the weather there.
DeleteProblem with Singapore is that this place changes so much that it might no longer be the home that you remembered, when you left. Sadly the the political scene and attitude of the people are still the same.
DeleteHi Ayhtas K
DeleteYeah you are right Singapore has certainly changed. But I have made peace with its political scene after living in two of the most democratic English speaking countries and a developing one with the largest democracy in the world. A 1st world democracy where the people truly decides and a 3rd world one where 'bribes' decide (no offense to people from that part of the world)
As for the attitude of the people, well I believe they will eventually change. 30 years ago, friends cringed in horror when I said the government should serve the people. Back then, it was blasphemous to speak negatively of the government. Now its cool. I know I will probably get a lot of flak for saying this but this GE outcome has assured me that the voters are a sensible lot and know what they want.
Change is inevitable and I believe Singapore will eventually move towards a more democratic route (although it may not be similar to a western type, given its cultural differences). Now that the people have realized the government should work for the people and not the other way round, the next step is for them to understand that public service is impartial and should be independent from any political party. Only then can an opposition party be effective.
Back to the reasons for leaving Singapore, anyone who wants to leave should just go and explore. And if it does not turn out as one expects, Singapore is always there.
Ok a little disclaimer note here, my advice is meant for the single people. Those with children, properties, etc, please do not just up and leave without making a back up plan.
Why do you think that your advice is only meant for single people? Let me deal with the issue of children and property.
Delete1. Children
A good reason why you should raise your children outside Singapore is to give them a better life - the education system in Singapore is not only a pressure cooker, but it is extremely unforgiving to people who are not brilliant straight-A scholar types. The boys would have to serve national service but are also saddled with NS reservist obligations for many years to come.
2. As for properties - think about trading up. For the price of a HDB flat in Singapore, you could get a massive property (upstairs, downstairs, loads of rooms, a garden etc) in the outskirts of any major city in the West.
The key issue is to be able to secure a job in the West that will pay the bills before you move - and that's a moot point really, as no country would give you a work permit without the job first (so let's not put the cart before the horse). The success of your move to the West (or any other country) depends on you making things work and I can't under any circumstances imagine a back up plan being moving back to Singapore - oh for crying out aloud, what makes you think that's a solution?
So hypothetically speaking, here's what I envision a back up plan could be like:
Plan A: Australia
Plan B: Canada
Plan C: New Zealand
Plan D: UK etc
At no point does it involve moving back to PAP-land, ever. Never. Jeepers creepers.
Fuck that shit!
My ex-colleague and her husband uprooted to Australia 2 years ago, together with their 3 daughters who are born in Singapore. Now her kids are schooled in Australia! And the kids look so much happier! Singapore kids here look so depressing!
DeleteWell LIFT, I have met many immigrants not only from Singapore but all over the world and not many are as successful as you. You studied and got a job in the country before you got your residence visa. For many who did not study in the country where they apply for PR, their qualifications are either not recognised or they have to do some additional studies in that country for possibly another 2 or 3 years. And for those with children, they may not be able to afford to pay the bills and study at the same time.
DeleteIn the case of Canada, even if one gets his/her qualifications assessed as equivalent to a Canadian one, the lack of 'Canadian experience' is a huge barrier to getting a job in one's original field of work. So many end up doing 'survival jobs' ie factory work, retail sales etc. Nothing wrong with that but if one's self esteem is tied to the status of the job, you can imagine what it does to their morale. Of course I know of one smart Filipino and her husband who got themselves transferred from their Singapore office to the Canada one when they got their PR. True foreign talents. I have also met countless others who languish here doing survival jobs or low end jobs not to their expectations. Stuck but lack the courage to move on.
NZ would be a better bet, because I think a Permanent PR is only issued if the person finds a job in one's field of study. They don't want brain surgeons driving taxis, that is what they say.
I advise caution for those with families because uprooting oneself and moving to a totally new environment while exhilarating for some, can be a stressful experience for many. Anyway, I think I am delving into the dark side of immigration here and this is not a forum for that. My apologies
So for those who can easily move between all the countries that LIFT mentioned and get a job there, I say go for it and don't look back.
Well let allow me to correct you on one point please. I have an utterly useless degree in geography. Fucking hell. Geography. What the fuck was I thinking. It has never ever helped me get a job, it did however, get me into the UK because I was able to get a scholarship at one of the top universities in the country, but the degree itself didn't count for anything in the working world. I have a head full of unusual facts about anything from countries to volcanoes to ox-bow lakes to glaciers to soil erosion but as for my qualifications being recognized? It's not like I wanted to be a geography teacher or anything related to geography at all - I realized, okay that was a fun degree to do but it's not anything related to what I wanted to do for a living.
DeleteI entered the working world, went into finance first via sales and then reinvented myself as a self-styled marketing & PR guru who understands the sales process very well. I did extremely well in this process - started a new job recently and I had an ex-boss this week trying to ask me to go work for his new company. Boy I had the satisfaction of telling him that I am very gainfully employed at the moment, thank you very much. But let's just say that my degree hasn't helped me one bit in the work place - I'm one of those people with an utterly totally useless degree (even if it is from one of the world's top universities) and everything I have learnt about finance & banking I learnt on the job, cos I spent my time at university studying geography!
So why am I saying all this? I'm telling you that you're making perhaps too big a deal about studying in the country where one gets one's residence visa - for me, it didn't help or hinder me, it just wasn't a factor as my career had nothing to do with my degree and yes, the moral of the story is, please think twice before doing a useless degree. I got away with it somehow, but in hindsight, I would not have done a degree in geography of all useless subjects.
And as for 'survival jobs' - I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for such people. I came from a Mandarin-Hokkien speaking family in Ang Mo Kio and I didn't know a single person when I arrived in the UK - I did a completely useless degree and then decided I wanted to work in banking and somehow managed to carve a career for myself by learning very, very quickly. Yes you can say I'm lucky but I also learnt how to adapt very quickly to life in the West and learnt about a brand new industry with zero help from anyone.
I'm sorry to say this my friend, but you still have a very Singaporean attitude because you're so focused on qualifications whereas I think the reason why I did okay was because what I lacked in paper qualifications, I made up with 'soft skills' - especially when it comes to dealing with people.
So the bottom line is, moving abroad is difficult of course, but the key factor is adaptability Can you learn fast and adapt to a new environment? Can you learn about a new culture quickly, can you change your accent, can you pick up a new language or three if necessary? The better you can adapt, the more successful you will be. There is this Singaporean politician by the name of Gilbert Goh who was a failed migrant - he tried to live in Australia for a few years and returned to Singapore. And I've attacked him on my blog before for his terrible English - it's like if you can't even learn how to speak English properly, how do you expect to adapt to life in another country like Australia successfully? . Oh and the audacity of Gilbert Goh, he claims that Australians are racists the truth is that he can barely speak English properly.
I think what I am saying is a lot of common sense. It's not about paper qualifications. It's more about the soft skills that will help you adapt to life in a brand new country.
And @Katie Zoey: I don't think the Singaporean system caters for kids who are not straight-A brilliant students. It is very unforgiving to those who are unable to fit the mould of the perfect Asian student. It is a very rigid system with little flexibility for students to discover what they are really good at. I am especially concerned as my nephew is now 12 and I don't think the system is any good for him. And to make matters so much worse, my parents insist on tutoring him and they are bludgeoning him every step of the way - I cringe when I see them do it, it's like squeezing a square peg into a round hole.
DeleteAaaaaaargh.
Yes I'm with u on this. I'm a good example - an output of the rigid education system. I believe if it's not due to my dyslexia, with some hardwork I could fit in pretty well and able become a straight A student. Too bad, I'm cursed with that. Even I managed to get through, I don't deny the constant pressure to fit and excel. Ignoring and not wanting to acknowledge that I've some learning difficulties will only make the matter worse as Singapore is really competitive and the mentality of "I can't afford to lose out" still creeps in. As much I'd like to push all the blame to Mr. Dyslexia, I clearly understand it's not entirely my fault and I should stop self-blaming. While system is rigid, minds are flexible. I feel parents should think more on their children emotional welfare rather than pushing them to fit. Actually it's ok to get C or even D, I even failed my English for my O levels. Does this means I won't be successful? No I don't think so.
DeleteI just don't see the correlation between getting straight As and being able to function in the working world. I just see a whole generation of Singaporean geeks who are great at studying for exams but totally lacking any kind of useful soft skills that are so vital in the workplace.
DeleteAnd you wonder why there are so many FTs taking your jobs in Singapore. Duh.
I see lots of foreign workers in Singapore less of talents. In my previous IT industry many employers were simply competing on costs. So much so that with a span of 5 years the increasing number of Malaysians were getting replaced by Filipinos and Myanmese. Imagine a job paying so low even Malaysians shun it.
DeleteI had read on the recent changes of education in Singapore. The Singapore government is now putting more efforts in building up ITE as well as expanding more relevant course so that students who cannot fit into the old model of education can go into it. There are also a lot of polytechnics offering more technical course for student who cannot go into junior college.
DeleteThe government also now focus on life long learning and encourage those those who do not have at least a diploma to go to these ITE to study to improve their capabilities.
I will like to add another thing. Another school in Singapore that do use the old model of the Singapore education system is School Of The Art (SOTA). It is a secondary school that focus 100% in arts.
DeleteKelvin Tan - there is only so much the MOE can do, the mindset needs to change. Parents and students alike need to see the ITE as a viable alternative to the traditional route of getting a degree hook or by crook. It's a step in the right direction of course, but the big change needs to come from the people and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
DeleteBelow are the word you said on the education system in Singapore in which you said.
DeleteI quote:
"A good reason why you should raise your children outside Singapore is to give them a better life - the education system in Singapore is not only a pressure cooker, but it is extremely unforgiving to people who are not brilliant straight-A scholar types."
That is why I said about the government pumping more effort into ITE. It is not just that the government is now tweaking the PSLE system as well as the Primary 1 system in order to reduce the pressure cooker system.
What you said is directly put the blame on the government on the pressure cooker system.
So if the parent is willing to change, I do not see it why should they be pressure to press on their child to get straight As in Singapore as the government is providing more avenue for the child to explore.
By the way, Alex, about your assessment of Gilbert Goh as a xenophobic guy, I think that you hit the nail on its head. He has a lot of stupid, retarded ideas about the government, some of which are not proven, such as that the government had to come in to hinder City Harvest Church from getting too big and influential (Please!!!! Simply because he attends a Charismatic church himself), and well, his anti-foreigner rhetoric which is mangled does not help the cause of the opposition whatsoever.
DeleteThe thing is, I do not recall Gilbert Goh ever having qualified for any kind of skilled migration whatsoever. He is not university-educated, and that does put you out of a certain number of possible vocations and jobs anywhere in Singapore, or even in western countries' migration points system, not to forget that you need to pass an English test to even get in to begin with. He obviously went over to accompany his daughter who is studying there, and his wife (now ex-) who is working there in the banking and financial sector.So,technically, he does not qualify as "failed migrant", when he never even had a real chance to begin with.
Hi LIFT
ReplyDeleteYes thanks for reminding me. Have been reading about the haze and all that cloud seeding business for the F1 (such a coincidence the rain...) Good reason for one to stay away.
On the other hand , winter is coming (yes I am living in Winterfell) and trudging through all that snow isn't exactly exciting. Oh well as one gets older, one finds the grass may be just as green on all sides except perhaps in Syria?
But never mind this Zonked Traveller, I strongly encourage all the young and passionate ones to set forth into the lands of democracy and freedom to personally experience what is lacking in Singapore. Then, they can truly make an informed choice of what is best. I hear it builds character too...
Absolutely. So many Singaporeans don't know what they are missing.
DeleteFree and happy in Canada! A main reason to leave is children. Singapore is a horrid place to grow up in. Those with kids should definitely try to get out. DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS SUFFER IN SINGAPORE! You only have one chance to live. Not saying that my life has been easy. I have friends from university who are making a shit load of money in Singapore and are living elitist lives. I am only middle class. However, I have just about everything they have material wise. And true democracy! I would like a maid at my beck and call, though. I hate housework! Lol.
DeleteDi - you have to look at the situation in a bit more detail because you've made a miscalculation in your analysis.
DeleteYes my sister has a maid and she doesn't do any housework at all. But what is the price she pays for it? She works over 70 hours a week, often clocking up to 80 hours a week. That means often putting in 12 hours a day at work, up to 6 days a week. That's why she has no time for any kind of housework - which is why she pays a maid to do it.
I know you have a wonderful relationship with your son and let me put it to you this bluntly: part of the wonderful deal you have working in Canada is the fact that Canadians have far more sensible working hours which means you do get to spend enough time with your family. If you worked as hard as a Singaporean to afford a maid (like my sister), then you would not have any time to spend with your son - you would miss out on so much of him growing up in the last 12 years.
So, doing housework is a small price you pay to be a part of your son's childhood. Would you rather you be an absent mother and your son was brought up by a Filipino maid?
It's a no brainer Di - so stop complaining about the housework, it's a small price to pay.
Sigh. I know.I know. Can't I have a maid and not work as hard as Singaporeans anyway?
DeleteActually I am looking for a new house cleaner to come in once a fortnight. This pigsty is getting out of hand. I digress.
I really am happy here. Wouldn't trade my life here for all the maids in Singapore.
My point is simple Di - everything comes at a price and having a maid comes at a price - the question is, are you happy to pay it? I know you well enough to say that you won't want to pay that price.
DeleteNope. That is why I am here. You know me indeed.
DeleteDidn't know about the investor's visa. Time to start buying TOTO while working my way to find a way out of here.
ReplyDeleteHi Alex
ReplyDeleteI’ve been reading your blog for a while. Thank you for sharing your posts.
Just thought I would take the opportunity to share my views as a born and bred Singaporean who is happy to stay put in Singapore.
To varying extent, I agree with many on your list of Singapore’s ‘shortcomings’, but I tend to take a somewhat more sanguine view towards these as I think some of these are just inherent to Singapore by virtue of the fact that Singapore is a small island city nation right smack on the equator (eg hot weather, haze, density, lack of space, etc….), plus I think many global cities (eg NY, London, Tokyo, HK) suffer similar issues as well (eg high property prices, crowds, stress, etc).
Nevertheless, I am sharing some key reasons why I continue to choose Singapore as my home:
1) Family. This is perhaps the single most important consideration for me. Between me and my wife, we have a large extended family in Singapore spanning generations. Through the years, we have enjoyed the emotional and practical support and kinship that really makes life meaningful. I wish for my young daughter to enjoy the same. This is not something that one can build overseas.
2) Environment. As a family man, I am cognizant of the somewhat stressful and unforgiving environment that is Singapore. But at the same time, I very much appreciate the safe, stable and conducive system in which I can plan for the future of my child and family without having to worry about guns, drugs and mindless violence. There is stress of course, but I am of the view that it is the parent’s duty to teach and coach the child to manage the pressures of living in such a globalized environment. Afterall, this is just training the child for when they go out into the ‘real’ world.
3) Singapore is home. Singapore is where I had grown up…. my childhood memories, my schooling days, my food preferences, my values. These are all anchored in Singapore and is my refuge when the outside world becomes too confusing and chaotic.
My friends from way back during our schooling days….. many are here, some are working overseas. Most of us already have the ability to migrate easily but Singapore is still home-base. Not that one cannot make new friends overseas but it is never the same.
4) Gratitude. I grew up in a 3-room HDB flat in the 70’s, gradually upgrading through the years to a comfortable home now. My family was not wealthy to start with but still, I had the opportunity to study, do well enough to graduate from a local university and subsequently work my way up the corporate ladder as well.
Yes, I had to study hard and work hard, and I did make good decisions at various points in life, in order that I am able to afford a comfortable life for my family now. But I am also grateful for the system that the PAP government has built in Singapore. In absence of such meritocracy and support, even if one is bright, hardworking and driven, it may count for nothing (witness our neighbours). As such, I chose to stay so that I can contribute in my own little ways to Singapore’s continued progress for our future generations.
The above is my story. I understand each of us may face different life circumstances and challenges so I do not presume to judge if one were to chose to leave Singapore for ‘greener’ pastures. By the same notion, I think many rational and independent thinking Singaporeans would have gone through the same thought process as I did, and decided that Singapore is indeed a good place for them to remain and make this home. Not quite the ‘brain-washed’ or ‘ignorant’ as some tend to like to label us.
Hi Bert.
DeleteThanks for your comment. Allow me to respond to some of the points you have made.
1. On the issue of property prices, the key difference with Singapore is the lack of cheaper suburbs. If you wanna live in the middle of London or New York, sure you pay sky-high property prices, but poorer people have the option of retreating to the suburbs where it is far cheaper. In Singapore, where can you retreat to? Woodlands or Tuas? Any further and you're into Malaysia already. You really need to read my post where I explained this in detail when I talked about the 100 km rule: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/getting-on-property-ladder.html
2. Congratulations on having a loving family. If you have read my blog for a while, then you'll realize that I have a distant relationship with my parents that used to be very bad, especially when I was a teenager. You know, I got a great new job this year but even as I spent 3 weeks in Singapore in Aug-Sept, they didn't ask me once what i was doing with myself and I didn't raise the topic. Like okay, you're not interested, fine. I have two lovely sisters whom I am closer to and I do keep in touch with them via Skype, Facebook etc. But it's not like I have no one in London - my partner is here in London (I'm married) and whilst his family is not in London as well (they're in Ireland & Scotland), we are in the same position as millions of other people who have moved to London for a better life, for better work and opportunities etc and we have built our own network of good friends who are like our family. This network is not based on blood ties, but a decision that hey, we like each other, we trust each other, we wanna be there for each other. I hope you've read a recent post when I went out of my way to stress to my father that I don't believe that one should give any special treatment to family members if they are good for nothing scoundrels. http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/on-leaving-singapore-each-time.html
3. "Guns, drugs and mindless violence" - please lah, you're thinking about the scariest neighbourhood in Baltimore as portrayed in the Wire. Let's get real here. In my city London, there are some rough neighnourhoods of course, they are where the poor people live. Yeah, and guess what? I happen to live in a rich neighbourhood where I am quite happy - there's no guns, no drugs, no mindless violence. The worst I have to contend with is the noise pouring out of the venue very close to my flat hosting London Fashion Week. Aren't you guilty of assuming the very worst of the West, instead of recognizing that there is a sliding scale from poor neighbourhoods to very rich ones?
4. Again, I disagree with your point about friends. I think you're too focused on the shared experience of having grown up in Singapore - once you take that out of the equation, you'll realize that you will make friends with people who see eye to eye with you on a number of issues, it is a meeting of minds. You have to bear in mind the fact that I speak English as a first language, French as a second language and Mandarin as a third language - thus linguistically, I'm better off communicating with a white person than a Chinese person since my Mandarin sucks. Once you get past the fact that people in other countries speak a different language or have a different culture, you'll start seeing the similarities we actually all share as humans and I'm afraid, you're sounding like someone who has never really had the chance to make friends in another country before - so you think it's impossible but I'm living proof that it can be done.
5. On the issue of gratitude, I find it curious that you didn't once mention your parents - surely if anything, they are the ones you must express your gratitude to, not the system per se?
Oh and as for the accusation of ignorant and brainwashed - that mostly stems from your ignorance of the West, because you have defaulted to assuming the very worst of the West (guns, drugs, mindless violence) - that's the classic sour grapes mindset. You've decided not to move to the West, so you're just gonna assume that life in the West is utterly horrible compared to Singapore.
DeleteThat's a horrible mindset to have! You can be happy in Singapore without making such wrongful, rubbish, untrue assumptions about life in the West. Does it help you sleep better at night to make such assumptions (which aren't true anyway) ?
@Bert what is this obsession with some group of Singaporeans asking us to show gratitude to PAP? It really grinds my gears. They did not pay for my education or give me unemployment benefits so what should I be thankful for?
DeleteIn fact all male Singaporeans had/will have to go thru 2.5/2 years of NS on slave wages. Now how about some gratitude from our government for that?
If anything I am not thankful for the PAP and their indiscriminate allowing of foreigners in to work to depress local wages. I left my previous industry in IT because it was a cost center where my wages (and lot of locals) stagnated while being require to do more (in BS name of "productivity"). I fact I think you personally would want to thank them when you are retrenched and replaced by a cheaper foreigner or when your kids are still staying with you well into their 40s since they have depressed wages and can't afford to move out.
I for one has seen the writing on the wall many years ago and rather than being forced to work as a taxi driver or security guard, i'm retraining in healthcare industry as a way out of this shithole.
Hahahaha Choaniki - you tell it like it is! Don't get me started on NS!!
Delete@chaoniki. Your comment about showing gratitude for the PAP. Its par for the course no? Just as the overwhelming tone for LIFT’s blog is anti-PAP isn’t it?
DeleteI personally feel that the PAP is certainly not perfect, and they did make some wrong policy calls, including the lack of control over the pace of foreign ‘non-value add’ labour and particularly to have let the property prices rise to where they got to. But hey, I see them actively responding to these now and the fact is things are improving.
I guess I can understand your bitterness about how foreign labour has affected you cause I do have friends in the IT industry who complain similarly as well. I think you are doing the right thing to retrain because of the inherent nature of IT.
If not the foreign labour now, then a matter of time before it moves off-shore. I have a Singaporean friend who owns an IT business……he has like 4 local supervisor employees in Singapore and almost 50 programmers in Myanmar! (at a fraction of the same cost he tells me….just as good). Such is the competition in a globalised industry.
I agree with you that one needs to constantly review one’s career trajectory and make necessary adjustments as necessary. I am already past my mid-40’s and the truth is that I already made a conscious decision before I turned 30 not to be dependent on a job by the time I’m 50/55. It took me a while to prepare and execute (plus luck and friends) but I did succeed in reaching that goal. I encourage one to set a long term goal for himself and then set out to work towards that.
Coming back to the PAP, I am grateful because this Government has led the development (not perfect but well enough) of Singapore to what it is today, that I had the benefit of a good and meritocratic education system where I am not held back because of my socio-economic background or skin colour, that the government has created enough jobs such that I could join and climb the corporate ladder after I finish school, that the government has created a stable, thriving and conducive environment such that I can start my own businesses to bat for the fence. These are not the natural state of things for a small island country situated in the middle of South East Asia. I am grateful to the PAP Government for these.
I am relating these in my personal context just to share with you my perspective (not preach to you)…..but I also believe the same opportunities are open to you if you choose to reach out for it. Give Singapore a chance.
Bert - you are more than welcome to express your opinion here of course, but please don't treat my friend Choaniki in this condescending manner. "Give Singapore a chance." Really?
DeleteI know Choaniki in real life, we've met up in both London and Singapore - he's not someone who knows nothing about Singapore for crying out aloud. He IS Singaporean - as S'porean as you. He grew up in S'pore, he worked in Singapore and now he is in his 30s. He has been giving Singapore a chance for over 30 years not by choice, but by virtue of the fact that he was born in Singapore and has no where else to go and he thought he would make the most of it. And after over 30 years his conclusion is, fuck this I'm outta here, then you have to accept that it is a decision based on 30 years of experience, not someone who doesn't know a thing about Singapore.
You know, I sat down with a bunch of European friends talking about traveling around Asia and some have expressed the opinion that Singapore is bland and boring compared to other Asian destinations and I said, "oh Singapore does have its charms, give it a chance." I was saying that to Europeans who have never set foot there or have only passed through on a stopover for like 24 hours or so. Clearly, these are folks who know little about Singapore and yes I can tell them to give Singapore a chance. But Choaniki? Really? Come on.
Just because he has a very different opinion from you doesn't mean that he doesn't know anything about Singapore. So you can't ask a man who has given Singapore a chance for over 30 years to "give it a chance".
No no no. I'm not letting you get away with those words. You're wrong to use them.
@Bert for every case of 1 business owner having benefited from PAP mass import of cheap foreign labour and "asset enhancement" policy, i have personally encountered 10 middle-class worker struggling to get by. So many of my friends are unable to find full-time employment and have to live contract to contract. They are degree holders too so it is definitely not educational qualifications that are the problem.
DeleteFor the PAP to screw up the middle-class so badly for the past several decades and do some small policy tweak here and there IMHO is unforgivable. I have wasted so much time in Singapore already as it is and am not about to wait another 50 years for them to get their policies right.
Even as a business owner, Singapore is too unforgiving. My own dad has 2 small businesses fail on him. Even for his generation who is supposed to have benefited the most from Singapore's growth from developing to developed country couldn't retire early and enjoy his riches. In fact he has moved all his money out of Singapore into properties in KL.
As for me I going to work outside of Singapore so I can save money for other investments which will likely be in China not Singapore.
Continuation......
ReplyDeleteAlex, you seem like an intelligent, talented and motivated person, so odds are that you would have done as well if you had chosen to stay in Singapore. But as a well travelled executive and now business owner who has stayed, worked and invested overseas, I have seen for myself how life is for people overseas who is also struggling to cope. In this regard, I can’t help but think that there are many (including a few of your commentators) who are somewhat naïve about how life would be in other ‘ideal’ countries.
If one is already struggling to secure a decent life in Singapore because he or she lacks a marketable skillset and is somehow unable to flourish in Singapore (i.e. unfulfilled aspirations), then there is really no reason to think it will be otherwise overseas…. In fact, they would then become the unwelcome minority foreigner who is vying with the locals there for ordinary jobs. Life’s still gonna be a bitch.
Just saying.
Peace.
Well Bert, did you know that I worked in Singapore in 2011 as an FT (a British FT in the banking sector to the precise)? I worked a contract and then returned to the UK. But whilst I was in Singapore, yeah the company took very good care of me and you should have seen the place they put me up in. I wanted to be walking distance from Takashimaya (as that's where I hung out in my JC days and I got what I wanted.
DeleteIf you're saying that smart people will do well in life and dumb people won't ... erm, surely we can take that for granted? I never said that the streets of London or New York are paved with gold, that an idiot in Singapore can become a millionaire in the West. But that's a moot point - if you're not qualified enough to get a good job (there are thresholds in terms of salaries, they don't just give out work permits willy nilly to cleaners or road sweepers or taxi drivers) - then you're not going to even get the required paper work to come here anyway.
So there.
Alex
DeleteI am sharing my personal views because you had invited comments to ‘have a conversation’. No need to get personal or quite so agitated. If you are only looking for comments that’s in line with your views, then its not a meaningful conversation is it?
Anyways:
1. Yes I agree. The lack of space in Singapore is not a positive. But it is what it is. Singaporeans just have to accept that this is the hand we had been dealt and make the best of it.
2. Yes, I am aware of the differences between our families. I am just sharing that my family is one major consideration for me in deciding to stay put in Singapore. As I mentioned in my earlier comment, I am well aware every one of us may have different starting points, challenges and circumstances. I am in no way passing judgment on anyone for deciding to move out of Singapore. It’s good that things are working well for you in the UK.
3. With regards my comment on security, I am speaking from my perspective as a husband and father. I am appreciative that I can comfortably let my wife, daughter stay out till late in Singapore without constantly worrying about their well-being, especially when I’m on long trips overseas. Or that I have to worry when my daughter may be introduced to drugs when she is growing up. You may say that’s paranoid but I can’t say the same of many of the cities that I have work in or visited, including many in the US, Europe and Asia. Perhaps ‘guns, drugs and violence’ may be a bit of overkill in UK but that is certainly a valid concern when in the US.
4. I re-read what I had written about friends. I fail to see how I could have given you the impression that I am somehow unable to make friends overseas? On the contrary, I have made and kept many old friends from the many countries that I have had the good fortune to work in.
But the truth is they are unlikely to share the same type of bond that I have with friends with whom I had grown up with since when we were kids. That may or may not be the case with you but that's important to me when considering if I wanted to leave Singapore. Doesn’t mean I’m anti-social or quite unable to make new friends.
5. Gratitude. I didn't mention my parents because I had considered them part of the my first point being that family is the single most important factor in me deciding to stay put in Singapore. So yes, I am eternally grateful to my parents for what they had done for me, and much more so than the PAP government if you must compare.
Continuation.....
Delete6. Alex, if you read my earlier post again, I am in no way accusing you or anyone else of being ‘brain-washed’ or ‘ignorant’. I was in fact sharing my perspective in order to present my case that many people who decided to stay back in Singapore do so because they have weighed the trade-offs for themselves, and not because they are brain-washed or ignorant.
Why would you think I am anti-west? Again on the contrary, I think many western cities and some Asian cities are actually good places to live, and I would have been grateful as well if I had somehow been born there instead. There are certainly many good points about the west that I like, just as there are many good things about Singapore that I build my life round. I am defending the decision to stay in Singapore, not putting down anyone else’s decision to move out to western countries.
7. I’m not quite sure what to make of your comments regarding your time as an FT in Singapore and the accommodation your firm put you up in. Good for you if that makes you feel good about your achievements.
8. It was not my intention to be making any such comments regarding smart or dumb persons. I personally believe one has done well as long as one has tried and has achieved to the best of his or her abilities.
I made my last comment only because I feel some Singaporeans who may be struggling to fulfill their aspirations in Singapore are somehow naive about just how great life would be for them ‘if only they can make it out of Singapore’. I feel if only they will try to have a more positive mindset and set about to continue to strive for their dreams (even in Singapore), they can begin to see the good in Singapore and feel less bitter about their situation.
My two cents worth.
Bert,
Delete1. The lack of space is made so much worse by the PAP's white paper to increase the population to 6.9 million and beyond. When you already have severe overcrowding, the last thing you want is to bung in another few million inhabitants into your already crowded country.
2. Like I said, congratulations on having such a good situation with your family. Please don't take it for granted that everyone else has the chance to enjoy that.
3. Drugs are indeed available in Singapore - yes there are draconian measures such as the death penalty to deal with smugglers sure, but that only pushes up the street value of drugs in Singapore and there are addicts in Singapore. http://features.insing.com/feature/tabloid-pores-drug-scene-not-half-dead-former-drug-dealers-say-id-4b753f00/id-4b753f00/ Your faith in your daughter staying off drugs should be based on you having raised her with the right values to make the right judgement call when it comes to substance abuse, your should not depend on the government to keep drugs off the streets of Singapore per se. Besides, when I was in Singapore for 3 weeks, it's not like there's no crime in Singapore - there were 3 murders in one week when I was in Singapore, not to mention crimes like rape, so you are kidding yourself if you think that Singapore is crime-free. We cannot live in a crime-free bubble, but we can raise our children the right way, so you know they can handle themselves in the big bad world out there and be okay regardless.
4. Like I said before, the streets of London or New York are not paved with gold - anyone who has the guts to strike it out abroad faces huge challenges halfway around the world from one's friends and family, I don't think that anyone is that naive - is the problem Singapore's society, government or system, or does the problem lie with the individual? If someone is dumb enough to point the blame elsewhere instead of trying to look in the mirror, then good luck to him/her. I am merely addressing the balance here - there are too many Singaporeans who say crazy shit about the West (ref: "drugs, guns and mindless violence") just to put the West down for no better reason than to make themselves feel better about Singapore. Let me make it clear - it isn't easy to make it anywhere (be it Singapore or the West), but many of us choose to leave Singapore because we are just so fucking sick of the PAP.
Now that's a bloody good reason to leave.
Hahahaha Bert, I also travelled for biz in the past and have probably seen things u have seen. Yes I do see homeless people and beggars in the West. But I also do see people treat them with respect and some are kind enough to buy them a sandwich and a hot chocolate drink during winter. Every country has its own set of problems and Singapore is not totally free of problems. 'Cos u don't see/feel yourself as a Singaporean struggle doesn't means the West has bigger problems. U are judging based on ur very subjective view by inadvertently comparing your current happy lifestyle with those people you've seen in the West, hence such a mentality. Different perception. Nothing wrong so long you're happy with your life then just stay put in Singapore.
DeleteAh to add on Bert, it's not about the skills, it's how profit driven Singapore is. LKY once said we shouldn't feel sorry in making loads of money. The STB rather spend millions to outsource foreign artists to exhibit their art here than to promote local artists. And it's not that we don't have good artists here. Same for the life science industry, they've spent billions of dollars to buy in well known scientists and then to shut down 70% of the labs after re-assessing its economic value. They think it's perhaps a bad investment. We still have a lot of life science graduates every year but most of them can't find a job. 'Cos of the restriction of freedom to follow curiosity, all projects whether u r a FT or local MUST be under the jurisdiction of the government. No economic value, no grant. This frustrates a lot of FT and local scientists. Famous USA cancer researchers Neal & Nancy Copeland packed up and say goodbye to the government in 2011 due to this reason. And now the industry is as good as dead since the government shifted focus and only give grants to medical physicians who have medical research component under their arm. So if one day your children tell u they want to be an aspiring artist/scientist, do u see any hope in Singapore? Or will you tell them very honestly that there's no future being an artist/scientist and perhaps encourage them to go into something they probably don't like but easier to carve a career in Singapore? I believe Singapore has A LOT of highly skilled people, but the market doesn't cater.
DeleteHi Katie
DeleteYa, I too lament about the sad state of civic mindedness in Singapore. I hope it changes for the better as the younger and more travelled Singaporeans come of age. I think that is happening gradually already.
I guess all such discussions or viewpoints are always subjective and shaped by our own personal experiences. Trust me, my own journey is not without challenges or sacrifices but I guess I just wanted to add a different perspective to this discussion (which was largely that Singapore is a shithole).
I will conclude by saying that I can understand why some Singaporeans/ex-Singaporeans will thrive better overseas…so I say go for it. But at the same time, for Singaporeans who can’t move/have not moved, I think they can do themselves a favour to at least give Singapore a try with a more positive mindset….. its really not too bad.
cheers
"Make the most of a bad situation" mindset, perhaps?
DeleteWell Bert all I can say is I wish you best of luck and hope u and your future generation will prosper in Singapore. Cheers & Peace.
DeleteHi LIFT
ReplyDeleteErm a Singaporean attitude, I like that. Given that I only studied up to secondary level in Singapore and was not pressured by anybody to conform or perform or whatever. I have still acquired the Singaporean attitude. LKY will be pleased that his social engineering exercise is really successful or perhaps its my genetic makeup that makes me more susceptible
The reason I brought up qualifications is to point out the challenges that peeps in the professional field such as accounting, engineering, nursing etc faced if they wish to continue working in the same profession when they emigrate. In Canada, where many professions are regulated (I bet they will even regulate cleaners one day) one cannot practice his/her line of work and no one will hire you unless your qualifications are assessed by the relevant boards or whatever they call them these days.
There are a couple of routes to live and work in the much coveted western world
Work visa: Through an overseas postings or apply directly for a job if you are one of those high fliers. But this visa is temporary so if you wish to live there forever, you have to apply for residency. For those who want to chance it and just turn up with a tourist visa to get a job. Kinda tough, easier to join the Syrian migrants to get residency
Investor visa: If you have a couple of millions, hey everybody loves you
Permanent residence visa: Every country has its own set of criteria based on age, language ability, profession, educational qualifications (oops that dirty word again) etc and if you meet those criteria, you get the welcome mat
Student visa: You take some course in some learning institution as an international student (ie pay more fees than the locals) and then get a job and then get a work visa and then get residency. Longer route but as a student, you get the opportunity to learn about their system and adjust gradually and not get thrown into the deep end immediately like the immigrant.
Well LIFT you left as a student in your early 20s so your experience is probably different from an immigrant in his mid 30s who may never even have studied/worked/lived in a western country before. I agree with you, that one needs to work hard at integrating. Unfortunately, not all immigrants are created equal. Some are less smart so the adjustment is more difficult and some may not even be able to adjust eg this Gilbert Goh
I feel bad for these people and there is no shame in doing survival jobs or going back. In zonked traveller's opinion, it's better than staying on, existing in a job they resent and placing all their unmet dreams and expectations on their children hence churning out all those weird 2nd gen kids... oops apologies, so unPC of me.
I wouldn't call Gilbert Goh or anyone who return to their country a failed migrant. It takes courage to admit that it didn't work out and start over. After all this time in the West, Zonked traveller have learned some strange stuff from the great white men and women living there. They tell me that it is okay to try and fail, that there is no need to hold on to rigid views about success or failure and that every experience whether negative or positive enriches one's life. And I actually believed them! How naive of me!
Erm didn't the good people of Singapore criticized the PAP for lacking compassion and empathy because they are smart all their lives so they are unable to empathize with the not so smart man's struggle to live the good life that come oh so easily to the ones favored by the gods? Oops sorry where did that come from? Must be my ADHD acting up. Time to take my medication
So stay or go? Whatever floats one's boat, I say.
Its been a fun exchange, my friend. Peace out
Alex
ReplyDeleteYour points:
3. Yes, I agree with you that it's the parent’s duty to guide the child. And ya, I’m not oblivious to the fact that drugs or crime are available in Singapore. Frankly I don’t think anyone is so delusional that they would think otherwise (ie no crime/drugs in singapore) no?
So, it's all relative, as a husband and father, I do sleep and sit better knowing that guns, drugs and mindless violence are not EASILY available in Singapore. Ok? You win.
4. ok…. So I hope I have clarified that I’m not one of the Singaporeans who says crazy shit about the west …… just one who has good things to say about Singapore (in spite of its shortcomings). I think there are probably many like me around as well, just quieter.
Peace.
Bert, I have lived in Canada in various cities for almost 30 years. I have not seen a single gun, no one has offered to sell me drugs, and no one has been killed in my presence. The closest act of violence is whenever I yell at my boys for not helping me enough with the housework (see above lament about my pigsty, lol!). I have not always lived in the best neighbourhood, btw. My son plays outside in the summer until sunset; he walks to the stores and rec center when he needs to. So far, he has been safe because we talked to him about common sense and safety rules. I have no worries in that regard. Knock on wood.
DeleteI don't understand why you feel grateful to the PAP. Did they pay your bills and put food on your table? They have created an economic success in which you are a part of. However, it is their job. The government is there to serve you. You do not serve the government. They are paid more than handsomely to do a good job. If you really think you should be grateful to them, then you do not know what the role of government is. It is not a benevolent monarchy that bestows gold upon the plebeians.
As for family, there are flights to Singapore from just about anywhere in the world. Have money will travel. There is also Skype and e-mail. Do you choose family or the future of your children?
Property prices? As Alex has mentioned, you can always live and even work in the suburbs. I do. This year, I am only a 5-minute drive from work.
Singapore is home? Have you ever lived elsewhere? If not, you are willing to settle for a hazy overcrowded
island where people have no souls because the government has sucked the joy of living out of its people? Look around you. The children of Singapore are stressed and mass produced at school. The citizens are stressed and over worked. The foreign workers are the only ones nor complaining because they chose to be there.
Your arguments for not leaving do not make sense. I think they stem more from being lazy to take the necessary steps to find a better life for your family. Hence, you convince yourself that life in Singapore is better. Either that or you are just delusional or brainwashed. Or smug and complacent. Or all of the above.
Hahahaha Di, I just watched a documentary about North Korea and there was this North Korean man singing praises about the regime there and he was talking about how awful life was in America compared to North Korea - it was pretty evident that he had no clue what the hell he was talking about and had never set foot in America (or even watched an American movie before). But he kept going on about Americans running around with guns and how much safer North Korea is.
DeleteAnd I thought, oh that reminds me of one of my readers Bert....
Talk about brainwashed. LOL.
Canada is a beautiful place. Only been there once to across over from Alaska to the Yukon on vacation. Vast lands and nature! Ooh...the cold...!
DeleteHahaha Di, there are some people who seriously love Singapore deep deep. Well LIFT, the North Korea send their first man to the Sun! Even NASA also can't accomplish that! Don't play play.
DeleteSharon, the Yukon does not represent the rest of Canada temperature - wise. In fact, only a tiny population live there compared to the major cities. Today is a balmy 15 degrees C. I saw a bear last week outside my son's piano teacher's yard. One of my gfs has a house with a creek running across it. Granted it is not like thus for everyone, but it is really beautiful.
DeleteMany people do want more gun control in the States. However, it isn't like Americans go around wielding their guns like Singaporeans do with their designer purses. On a recent trip to Seattle, we were in some seedy areas as well as some chic neighbourhood. Guess what? Not a single gun in sight. For sure there are people who get killed by gunshots everyday. Just as there are drunk drivers anywhere. You are more likely to die from lung disease due to the haze in Singapore, though.
ReplyDeleteLet me give you an example of why I think Singaporeans freak out over nothing.
DeleteOnce in a while, I get approached by pimps who offer me 'beautiful ladies' - mainly because I am a well dressed middle aged man who probably looks like he has some money to spend on 'beautiful women'. LOL. I usually just politely say, "no thanks" and walk away - the pimps then leave me alone.
And that's it.
Really, it is not such big a deal.
I suppose people like Bert would go crazy and claim that the sky is falling down if a pimp ever offered him beautiful ladies or if a drug dealer offered him some happy pills.
I just say no thank you and walk away - I've got better things to do.
One does wonder why Singaporean parents have so little faith in their parenting skills that they think that their children would say anything other than "no" when approached by pimps or drug dealers like that. That's more a reflection on them than anything else.
There are idiots anywhere Pedophiles, perverts, rapists, druggies, psychos, ax muderers, ... even in Singapore.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if there's anyone who gave up his/her British/American citizenship and became a Singaporean. Ha! Just thought it will be interesting to hear why.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why people will run down the West...there's always the pros and cons, and we ought to look at the positives. We can learn a lot from the West (great vibrancy...been listening to The Moth and How My Wife Quit Her Job podcast) or any other countries.
What about the case of Joseph Schooling (the swimmer)? His father is half British, quarter Portuguese, quarter Chinese (making him 37.5% white, 42.5% Chinese), Technically speaking, his father Colin Schooling would have been eligible for British citizenship and thus making that a possible route for Joseph Schooling as well. But no, they chose to be Singaporean and I am guessing it has much to do with the fact that as a swimmer, his chances of blossoming at an international level are far better in Singapore than the UK. I've seen so many swimmers, gymnasts etc in the UK who are brilliant but because they are ranked outside the top 10 nationally (it's a huge country, remember), they never get to represent their country and thus never breakthrough to international level competition. Heck, I was an above-average gymnast from a very small country (S'pore), that's why I got to compete internationally for many years - an opportunity I would have never had if I had been from a bigger country.
DeleteBut I do know Brits, Americans, Dutch etc expats who have been in S'pore for years - they have good jobs, have a good life, live in lovely condos but they will never ever give up their passports to become Singaporeans as they don't want their sons to serve NS!
Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin gave up his US citizenship to stay in Singapore. But he did not take up citizenship in Singapore. He I just using it as a base for tax evasion purposes. You think he created many jobs and his wealth trickled down to the poor in Singapore?
DeleteHi Choaniki - that's right, Saverin did NOT take on Singaporean citizenship (even if the government would gladly offer it to him) - why? Because it grants him no privilege whatsoever - his sons will be burdened with NS and someone as fabulously wealthy as Saverin can move to any country in the world he wants without worrying about visa issues - the only issue for him that is crucial is tax and he wants to minimize his tax burden. Singapore only requires him to be resident in Singapore to enjoy low taxes, it doesn't require him to be a citizen.
DeleteThere are plenty of other white foreign expats like Saverin living in Singapore, they will never ever take on citizenship. It is really only the migrants from poor Asian countries like India, China, Vietnam and the Philippines who are desperate to get hold of a Singaporean passport.
Simple Alex - they are too busy working to survive to pit food on the table. You come home at 9pm all the the time exhausted and no mood to talk; the kids only see the maid, friends, school and homework - they are not taught to relate to their parents; over the years the gulf grows and the kids are left to their own devices with no (moral) compass. Not all parents and families are in this situation, but I think a lot of kids here lack in EQ development partly becauae of this. It will get worse as the cost of living rises and the population heads to the dreaded 7 million.
ReplyDeleteThus the logical conclusion is that another good reason to leave Singapore is for parents to have a better work-life balance, so they can actually be a part of their children's childhood - is that logical?
DeleteSome of us are lucky to be given a choice - to leave or not to leave - Singapore. Some of us left not by choice, we are 'forced' to leave (I don't mean at gun point)...I am one of them.
ReplyDeleteI come from an average, lower middle income family and I see education as the key to a better future. Although I did well in school, my family could only afford to pay for one (of the five siblings) university education. After O-Level, I chose to go to Poly under SAF Joint Diploma Scheme. I didn't have to pay tuition fees (MinDef paid them) but I had to served in the Navy for six years. I put my aspiration to get a degree aside and helped financing my sister's univ education. After working for many years, I have saved some money that would help me realize my dream, i.e. study. First, I did my undergrad in my late thirties at an institution in US who accepted my 'obsolete' NP diploma for credit transfer. I still kept my job in SG while studying as courses were mostly online. Upon graduation, I applied to NUS to study environment (master level) but my application was rejected in the end. Nonetheless, I was called to attend the entrance interview. You wouldn't believe what they told/asked me during the interview. The opening statement by the panel of interviewers was "if we offer you a place, it means we are rejecting another potential candidate, so you'd better give us a very convincing reason why should we offer you a place." One of the question they asked me was "If you were to graduate from this program, how many years do you think you can economically contribute in this field?" I know I am old, but hey, they could have been a little bit more discrete. That experience showed that not all Singaporeans have the same previlege, some of us, like me, are the underprivileged Singaporeans. Since NUS rejected my application, I accepted the offer from one of the university in Canada. I started my master two years ago and I am now working toward my PhD under full scholarship. BTW, it's geography and it's not some useless subject. Lol.
After staying here for a year, my wife and my two daughters joined me last year. Since we have lost a substantial income, we decided to live simple. But that's not true, really. My wife is now working part-time and we both have a very dismal income - her salary and my stipend add up to $2K. Back home, our total income was $20K per month but we still felt so inadequate. Despite such a drastic loss of income, our quality of life is still maintaining, if not better. We live in a rented three-storey house which is twice the size of our HDB executive apartment. For the first time in my life, we bought a car without taking any loan. The two girls are attending elementary and high schools, and we don't pay a single cent. We spent SGD 100-200 on weekly groceries in SG; here we spent no more than CAD 50 for the same amount of meat and vegies. Like Singapore, Canada is very safe. My previous roommates (Canadians) have the habit of leaving the front door unlock. I was probably the only weirdo who kept latching the front door.
Jude, you are so right. You can live a quality life with much less in Canada. I have everything my elitist friends have in Singapore, but I make only a portion of their pay. I don't hang out at country clubs, but I don't have to because I have the great outdoors to explore. Don't worry, your income will increase as you get your bearings in Canada. We came here with two suitcases each literally and never looked back. Good riddance Singapore!
DeleteI am not a fan of SG education system, largely from my personal experience. Our education system indirectly creates education 'poverty' (that's what I like to call it). Once you fell into the poverty cycle, you can't get out. During my era, poly graduates were known as the 'rejected' batch of NUS and NTU. Only top 1% of poly students would be offered a place in NUS/NTU (there were no SMU, SUTD, uniSIM etc at that time and NTU was still a baby). When we got into poly, we could stop dreaming of getting a degree. Of course, that stereotype has changed over the years thankfully. Nonetheless, the problem still persists at primary and secondary levels. One of my daughter is a late-bloomer. She did badly for her PSLE but she has since improved from secondary two onward. Unfortunately, she cannot get out of the 'education poverty' cycle. Canada system is very forgiving. It doesn't penalize you for doing badly at primary 3 or PSLE, every students follow the same path and are given an equal chance to academically ace grade 11 and 12. It's hard to explain but if your child is in this situation, you will understand. For that reason, I am staying here for a long long time.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is not in the same situation, it all depends on something yada yada yada. Here, I offer a perspective from someone who is not very young. If you have a slightest idea to leave, our age doesn't matter.
Hello Jude! You won't happen to be related to John Kurniawan (a brother perhaps)? I know a John Kurniawan.
DeleteSingapore needs to change with time. It is a developed country operating like it is still developing. This results in a very tense, chase the dollar mentality. It is amazing that 20k does not suffice in Singapore. I think what everyone here is trying to say is there is a choice with evidence of success. It is not such a big scary world out there.
ReplyDeleteA very insightful perspective.
ReplyDeleteI am new to your blog (with this being the first post I've read), but do you have a post/recommendations on places to migrate to? I am currently studying in a polytechnic pursuing a diploma in biotechnology, however I do feel that Singapore lacks the variety and infrastructure for me to further pursue my interests. I intend to get a scholarship without a bond, probably in Australia or the States. As far as policies and the PAP go, I am not well-versed with Singapore's system, however seeing how my parents are coping with their middle-class adult life, I do believe that there are much, much greener pastures out there. When one parent always comes home after dinner and leaves before sunrise while the other works irregular shifts just to support the family, I start to question the existence of their "adult Life" at all.
It does get meaningless and very exhausting, doesn't it?
Tom, hi - it is very hard for anyone to give any kind of meaningful recommendation on places to migrate to. For example, I totally love French but wait, I speak French totally fluently and so I have had no problems working in a French company and function in a French-speaking environment where no one is willing to speak English with you. So whilst I can recommend France based on my wonderful experiences in Paris, you may turn around and say, "erm, Limpeh, I don't speak French leh, liddat how hah?" Likewise, I have friends in Canada who have a wonderful lifestyle and I am so jealous of them as they have proper winters, we're talking -20 degrees with proper snow that never melts. For me, that's paradise on earth, when everything looks like a Christmas card scene. But for some people, they can't take the cold and they would not be able to survive a Canadian winter - so what is right for me, may be totally wrong for you. I don't know what you like, what you prefer, what your skills are and most importantly, I don't know what makes you happy Tom.
DeleteSo here's the best answer I can give you: do your homework. Don't be lazy. You're smart enough to use google and only you know what makes you happy. Any kind of advice from a stranger is meaningless and worth far less than what you can find for yourself as you are the best person to the answer to the questions concerning your happiness. So, go find your answers, google awaits you.
hello Singaporean people,
ReplyDeletemy name Ahmed from Canada, I spent 2 months in Singapore trying to understand people, see how people live, talk , have a fun, work, make friend, making a family and growing up children, express their opinion in free way, etc. I came to your country to discover it and look for a job opportunity as senior analyst. let me tell you something something form my heart: you have a beautiful city in terms of building, architecture, public transportation but on other side there is no life at all. people don<t talk, can not criticize which is natural and normal for
human being, weather is always hot and humid and most worse is cost of living every thing is expensive and also people are addicted to their cell phone and digit tools... so, my advice start to travel, outside is also safe, clean, funny and free fro any rules...Singaporean people you are smart, disciplined, well educated so leverage all you good things, skills and find another country... we have just one life so do not waste it in one country.. about myself, I decided to go back to Canada it is not paradise but it is much more better than Singapore singapore is for rich people, Singapore is like mirage it gives you an illusion that it is a platoon city Greece every thing is beautiful but inside it hurts every person is emotionless, every thing is watched and planned.. you will get bored... I wish you all success and be proud to be Singaporean while you are outside of your country
It's strange to read such description of Singapore. I'm frome Rome and I'living in switzerland, but with my wife and daughter we are thinking about moving East to your country. Weather can be hot and humid, but isn't nice to be alwys in summer time?
ReplyDeletePublic transportation in Singapore are famous, but here I read of neverending queue.
Help mebto understand the truth.
I am appealed by culture, living in open space (Park), no need of cars, beaches (nearby in Malesia) etc, but I've never been there, so anything I think is based on internet stories.
Guido, most people would like the rest of the world to like their country - it is only amongst themselves that they would actually be honest enough to discuss the problems in their countries. Is there a perfect country in the world without any problems? Of course not. Every country in the world has their share of problems, it is just that different countries have different problems. The "summer" weather in Singapore is not as good as you think - air pollution is a serious problem due to the haze caused by the forest fires in the region. When it is 35 degrees and the air is so thick with smoke you can't even see the building across the street and you get warnings to keep children and the elderly indoors - then you will realize how serious the air pollution problem is in Singapore. Singaporeans hate their hot weather, like I mean HATE. ODIARE. They spend a lot of money on air-conditioning so as to avoid feeling the heat and if you live in Singapore, prepare to spend a lot of money paying for air-conditioning.
DeleteThe nearly entire metro/MRT network just broke down today, so it is not as efficient as you think it is. It is severely crowded and at breaking point as it is.
With 5.5 million people packed into a tiny island, you'll struggle to mind much open space and parkland in Singapore and if you like the beaches in Malaysia so much, why not just live in Malaysia then.
In any case, you've stumbled upon someone being brutally honest about the problems in Singapore. Would you rather have the honest appraisal or the PR spiel from the Singapore tourist board?
Nice blog. I stumble upon this page because I'm interested also to know what are the main reason for one to leave Singapore.
ReplyDeleteMy story, I have been living here in Singapore as a foreign talent for nearly 8 years. I brought my family with the plan to settle here. Everything was going according to plan, my work is fantastic, I have been getting promoted faster than the others. My wife was able to find a job, with good pay too. We are able to afford mostly everything we need (and wants).
But our problem starts when we get rejected to get a PR. We applied twice already, still no approval. Then we said, okay, just stay put we might get it in the future.
But then again we felt really under priviledged when we did not a slot in a primary school we sign up for my daughter. We were offered to another school which is far from where we stay instead. So we took it anyway, so my daughter travels 40mins one way everyday to school with our maid. We think of it as a short term problem as we can just move house near the school, perks in living in a small island, you can almost live anywhere. But the point is we kind of see the future already, this island will get more congested in the future, competition is getting tougher each day, property prices are getting higher, more pressure in school, what you can afford today maybe a luxury tomorrow.
So I got a work opportunity overseas, we decided to move out (moving soon). We will surely miss Singapore, as our life here has been good overall. But we still choose to move out as the future here seems uncertain and tough. Especially not having a PR (which by the way I have friends who are PR here but they still choose to move out for the same exact reason), it would be challenging to establish a family life here, with very fast pace life, you are somehow trap in a rat race. Imagine most of my colleagues have atleast master's degree but it does not mean almost a thing now, when I ask one of them why get a master's degree, he said to get a better job opportunity, sadly this applies to majority. So even now it is already tough to get up high in the ladder.
Each individual has different views, but to me, I choose to leave while I can as I feel I can give a better life to my family overseas. But I am still very thankful to Singapore for the experience and a taste of life we enjoyed here.
Hi Gilbert. I am assuming you're Malaysian? Why did you settle for Singapore - why didn't you aim hire and try to move to somewhere like Australia, Canada, the US, UK or NZ instead?
Deletehi bro, how do u leave if u dont have a job overseas? is there a way ?
ReplyDeleteVirtually impossible. Gimme more details about your situation and we'll see what might be possible for you.
DeleteSG govt won't and can't attribute much to over-population - as an NYTimes admirer of SG commented, "there's no Texas" for Singapore. There's no out, one is trapped on an island, cheek by jowl, 24/7.
ReplyDelete