Friday, 14 February 2014

Putting organized crime in the spotlight

Now a reader of mine 'Luck of Fire' has become rather curious about the nature of the organized crime in the Chinese community here in the UK - she seems to be keen to find holes to pick in Peter's story to try to find out why such crimes cannot be easily solved. Each time she seems to raise a good question, my friend Peter comes up with a simple explanation to deal with it - the fact remains that organized crime exists in practically every country in the world. You can go to Russia and there's the Russian mafia братва ('Bratva') , go to Japan and there's the ヤクザ ('Yakuza'), go to Korea and there's the 깡패 ('Kkangpae'), go to Italy and there's the Italian mob 'Cosa Nostra' and in Greece there is the νονοί της νύχτας ('Nonoí ti̱s nýchtas'). Need I go on? There's organized crime in virtually every country in the world - in more corrupt countries, these mafia gangsters are more out in the open, but other countries, they are forced to operate underground and fly under the radar to avoid the police. Let's explore this topic further today.
Now in Singapore, there has been a long tradition of organized crime that goes back a long way - although in recent decades, these organizations operate on the very fringes of society and the vast majority of law-abiding Singaporeans have no contact whatsoever with any kind of gangsters or the mafia in Singapore. Likewise in the UK, I am aware of the Chinese, Romanian and Russian mafia operating in the neighbourhood of Soho where I live, but these gangs keep a low-profile and do not want to attract the attention of the police, so ordinary residents like myself have no contact with them whatsoever. A strong police presence in the neighbourhood ensures the safety of the residents here and many of these criminals are interested in making money at the end of the day (through their various clandestine activities) - so they have no incentive to draw any attention to themselves.

Nonetheless, I think 'Luck of Fire' has raised a few interesting questions which did get me thinking and no, I don't have all the answers to her questions. So what I have done is I have posed these questions back to Peter (the former legal interpreter) and a police officer friend of mine from the London Metropolitan police - he prefers to remain anonymous so I will simply refer to him as 'PO' (short for Police Officer) in the following piece. PO has read all the stories of the interviews that I have done with Peter about Chinese organized crime on my blog.
Limpeh: Now my first question is that some of these crime rackets are really quite elaborate. In the case of Sabah, they lured a woman and her husband all the way from Malaysia to commit crimes in the UK - now surely there is a simpler way to try to achieve the same result? Like if you are in possession of some cloned credit cards and you intend to use these cloned cards to buy expensive goods, surely there's a less complex way to do so? How about making these purchases online with these cloned cards? People do a lot of shopping online these days.

PO: It is easy to trace someone when they make a purchase online - you have an email address, you can trace the IP address and say you order a lot of goods from a website, you need to have it delivered somewhere - there is that important time lag between the purchase being processed online and the actual delivery. Most credit card companies can flag up irregular patterns on their systems, say if a person who has this card lives in Singapore and suddenly a purchase is made in London - they may contact the person and ask them if they are abroad and on holiday. If it is indeed a case of a cloned card, then the police can go with the delivery man and arrest the person receiving the goods on the spot. Too easy - there's just way too much risks involved. The criminals won't take such risks, no.
Contrary to belief, it is not that easy to commit crimes online.

You may think that going into a shop in person would be more risky, with CCTVs pointing at you from every corner, but it isn't. But if this purchase was made in person, the criminal can simply walk out of the shop quickly and once the criminal has left the shop with the goods - it becomes very hard to track them down and recover the stolen goods. We have limited resources to launch a massive manhunt over crimes like that - if we had a terrorist, like a suicide bomber in central London or something equally dangerous, then we'll spare no expenses and get every person available on the case at once; but if someone steals something like a bottle of perfume from a shop that is worth £30 or a pair of jeans worth £50, then our response would have to be proportional to the threat to public safety. That's the key.

Criminals would often strike when the shop is very busy and the staff are under a lot of pressure to serve a long queue of customers at the till. These criminals would often obscure their faces with hats, scarves, sunglasses, even wigs to try to hide their faces and even if you do pick up a face on the CCTV - there it is obscured by a hat, wig and sunglasses and it is very hard to make a positive identification. Please don't imagine that just because someone is caught on CCTV that we can easily make an identification - it's really not that simple if the criminal is well prepared.
In winter, we have to wrap up - can you recognize me in this photo?

Limpeh: It is such a fallacy that just because you have CCTV you can catch criminals! As if they are going to make a simple mistake like that if they have planned a complex crime, like they know that there are CCTVs everywhere.

PO: The criminals - well, the pros anyway - know exactly how to deal with CCTVs. Recently, there was this case of these criminals who cloned credit cards from the Middle East and we had these criminals who showed up in shops in London dressed in traditional Arab clothing with their faces completely veiled apart from their eyes. Now the first reaction of the cashier dealing with such a customer is simply, "very rich Arab lady, from the Middle East, very religious and conservative, She is a Muslim, I must be polite and respectful". It could be anyone behind that veil, it could even be a man - you just see a pair of eyes. They could be dancing in front of the CCTV for an hour and you would get absolutely no useful identifying features - the bottom line is this: these criminals are two steps ahead of us when it comes to CCTV. They are extremely smart and super well prepared - they pay great attention to detail.
Peter: There is also the cultural barrier as well which is a big factor: the Chinese mafia like to deal with people like Sabah because they know how to exploit her: take a small town girl out of Sabah, put her in a big city where she barely speaks the language and she becomes very vulnerable and easy to exploit. Trying to exploit a local English person the same way would be a lot harder as the local English person would be able to work out a way to get help, to escape - take the example of Sabah being driven around North London and not being able to recognize the streets. To Sabah, they all look the same and she was not able to identify where her husband was initially held - this was because Sabah was new to England, she spoke very little English and found it confusing, this made her an easy person to manipulate and control. If someone were to put me in the car and drive me around North London, I would probably be able to recognize a lot of it as I know London very well - I was brought up here, I'm a local, I speak English.

Also, Sabah and her husband initially trusted Tai Kor because they were dealing with a friendly fellow Chinse-Malaysian, it is easy to gain the trust of someone you wish to exploit if you know their culture and can communicate with them easily. This is why the various mafia groups in London tend to work within their own communities - the Chinese mafia tend to deal only with the Chinese diaspora, the Russian mafia only deal with the Russians, the Vietnamese mafia only deal with the Vietnamese, the Romanian mafia tend to deal only within their community, you get the idea. You pick the lowest hanging fruit, you go for the easiest targets - that is why Sabah was an ideal target as she was simple, naive and stupid, they will not target someone who was confident, intelligent and sophisticated.
The Chinatown mafia mostly operate in the Chinese community.

Limpeh: Still, for a crime to span so many countries, such as in the cloned credit card case Sabah was involved in, I think the question is, isn't there an easier, less complex way to make money through organized crime?

PO: You may as well say, "why not just get a job? No risk, you go to work, you get paid, you don't have to worry about getting caught or going to jail." Do not underestimate these mafia gangsters - they are run by some extremely intelligent people, far more intelligent than you and I, or any of your readers. There is a good reason for them to create these huge, elaborate rackets that can span several countries - the reason is usually profit. They can make a lot of money from these schemes - so using cloned Asian credit cards to buy expensive luxury goods in London, that makes them a profit of several thousand pounds a day even after deducting the costs they have to invest in. How many businesses make that kind of profit? I make a few thousands pounds a month and that is the salary I have to earn by working my butt off for the police - these people make the same amount in a matter of hours.
The mafia make a lot of money, tonnes of money...

Peter: These Chinese gangsters are crazy rich, like they make so much money it is unreal. They invest in schemes that are high tech - in the cloned credit card case, let's look at the costs. There is someone in Asia stealing these credit card numbers, presumably someone who works for a legitimate company that processes online sales transactions. They have to buy that data, then they pay some people good money to create these high quality credit card clones based on the information they have, then at that stage, you have one chance to take that card to a store and make back all that money you have invested in getting that card. So even if the cost per card is £2000, as long as you make a purchase bigger than £2000, you make a profit. And if the purchase is worth £4000, then you've doubled your initial investment. No investment product out there offers you the chance to double your money just like that - no businessman can double his initial investment just like that. These scams are elaborate and expensive, but they generate an insane amount of profit over a very short space of time.

This was part of the reason why I left my old job - I saw these people making thousands of pounds a day, whilst I was slowly chalking up time, doing my translations, getting my time sheet signed for the work I have done. Sometimes we argue over petty little things like if I submitted my transport claim form correctly - it got silly I have been refused a £4.80 transport claim before I didn't fill in the date on the claim form - that was the last straw as they were being such total assholes over just £4.80, can you believe it. I thought fuck this - I really need to do something else, I'm in the wrong job. No I didn't go work for the mafia, but it did give me a glimpse into a world where people make insane amounts of money just like that. The Chinese mafia are driving the most expensive sports cars whilst I am taking the bus to work.
Legal interpreters are not that well paid...

Limpeh: Can we talk about organized crime and the link with illegal immigrants please?

Peter: Illegal immigrants represent the most vulnerable people in society - they are the most easily exploited. Imagine if you did a job and you didn't get paid - you could sue the employer, you could take legal action against them. If they mistreated you, you could easily go to the police and ask for help. Now illegal immigrants can't do any of the above, they live in fear of anyone in authority, even if they get injured, they cannot go to the hospital as they are not entitled to any kind of healthcare and they fear coming in contact with anyone in authority which may lead to their deportation from the country. This is not just a problem in the UK, but it happens in so many other countries like Thailand.

From a business point of view, they represent the ideal worker - you can work them as hard as you like, you can pay them as little as you like, they cannot complain, they cannot go to the authorities even if they are not happy, you can treat them like crap, they are completely at your mercy. The less you pay your workers, the bigger your profit margins are - yes it is illegal and a risk if they get caught, but with the bigger risk comes bigger profits. These mafia gangs know how to handle and minimize this risk - it is a simple cost-benefit, risk vs reward analysis really.
PO: Don't forget, illegal immigrants often pay these gangs a lot of money to be smuggled into the UK in the first place, it is a big business. They usually arrange for these illegal immigrants to come over on tourist visas and then once they get here, they are at the mercy of these gangs because no one else will give these illegal immigrants a job and they are afraid of being deported by the authorities. So there is an inextricable link between organized crime and illegal immigrants. We have illegal immigrants coming from not just China, but Russia, Ukraine, Beleraus, India, Africa, South America... And they are brought here by these mafia gangs to be a part of their organized crime network.

Limpeh: I have to ask this: every time 'Luck of Fire' seemed to have identified a possible loophole for the police to try to identify Sabah's 'handler', Peter pointed out that it was an angle that the police had already explored and came up with nothing because the mafia were always two steps ahead of the police: the number plate of the car was fake, they took Sabah and Dajie to Chinese restaurants where the staff had conveniently not kept a copy of the CCTV of their visit and 'cannot remember' anything about the customers from that day. Are the mafia always two steps ahead of the police?
Are the mafia always a few steps ahead of the police?

PO: This does describe what I go through all the time - we get a case, we look for possible areas where we can get a lead and we come up with nothing, usually because people are too afraid to talk. Your reader has a very simplistic view about organized crime: imagine if you are a young waitress at a Chinatown restaurant frequented by the mafia - you remember witnessing a group of gangsters having a meeting in your restaurant, you even brought food to their table. They even left you a nice tip for your service. The next day, the police go to the restaurant and question you, "did you see these gangsters? They are wanted criminals, who have committed some terrible crime, we want to arrest them."

What would the waitress do? What does she stand to gain by assisting the police? The police doesn't have any money to pay her for her co-operation, we can only rely on her having a desire to help us in our investigations. What does she stand to lose by assisting the police? Too much. What if her colleagues saw her being questioned by the police and when the mafia come back and demand, "who was the big mouth who told the police we were here?" She could possibly lose her job if her boss was afraid of her big mouth getting the restaurant into trouble with the mafia. If she told the police anything, then she could become a target for the mafia, the mafia may do something nasty to her - beat her up, rape her, even kill her - just to make an example of her, as a warning to anyone who thinks they can just go to the police and talk. The police cannot put everyone they speak to into witness protection, we question so many people everyday, take down so many witness statements - some of which may turn out to be vital, others totally irrelevant.
Would the waitress dare to open her mouth and speak to the police?

Therefore it is so much easier for the young Chinese waitress to just say, "I don't remember, I was so busy, there were so many customers that day, sorry I don't remember all of their faces." She has nothing to lose by pretending that she doesn't remember a thing, but she risks getting into a lot of trouble if she opens her mouth. I know when these people are lying when they say, "I'm sorry I don't remember." Many of the illegal immigrants whom we do arrest have surprisingly bad memories about the details of the people they work for - like they cannot remember names, dates, places, address, they somehow just 'forget' such basic details when I question them.

Peter: It's a simple issue of covering your tracks - if you are committing a multi-million dollar fraud case, you would have invested so much time and money into setting the whole thing up. You would not then be so stupid as to screw it all up by making a dumb mistake. There's this story I've heard, these robbers in America planned to rob a jewelry store and they made a fatal mistake, they parked their get-away car in a no parking zone and the car was towed away whilst they were robbing the jewelry store. When they ran out of the jewelry store with a bag full of gold and diamonds only to realize that their car was gone, they panicked and had to hijack a car to get away - but that lost them a few minutes. That was enough time for the police to catch up with them and after a short car chase, they were apprehended and put in jail for a long time. Those are the kinds of mistakes silly amateurs make when they try to rob a bank!
Only the amateurs get caught, the pros never get caught.

Let me state the obvious: criminals don't want to be caught, criminals don't want to go to jail. Only dumb criminals make stupid mistakes which results in them being arrested. These Chinese mafia are not dumb criminals who make amateur mistakes - take that Chinese restaurant for example, they know that every single one of the staff would not remember them having been there and if the police were to ask for CCTV, the manager would say, "oh I am so sorry we didn't keep the footage of the CCTV for that day as there was no incident." Every single one of the staff would 'forget' anything they saw that day - that's how powerful the mafia are in Chinatown, the people who work in the restaurant are terrified of them. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by helping the police - so why would they say anything to the police? They would have to put their own interests first, who wouldn't in such a situation?

Limpeh: Okay, so you say these criminals are super intelligent, they work hard, they pay great attention to details, they rarely ever make mistakes and they are meticulous. If they are so incredibly talented, why run the risk of being arrested and put in jail by being in the mafia when they can use these talents to get a normal job - be a banker, lawyer, businessman - and make loads of money legally if they are really so incredibly talented and resourceful? So many people can become rich without indulging in organized crime. Why do they turn to crime?
You can be a pastor of a church in Singapore and become super rich.

PO: Greed and power. You can make money very fast very quickly when you're involved in organized crime, some of their more successful businesses generate a vast amount of profits in a way that a tax paying legitimate would never. You don't need to play by the rules - take the example of buying luxury goods with cloned credit cards and then selling them on in the black market, they make huge profits because you're using someone else's money to buy those goods, effectively stealing them. Compare that to an honest shopkeeper who buys those goods from the wholesaler and then selling them at a slightly higher price and trying to make a small, modest profit, the honest way.

There's also a huge power trip for those in the mafia - people fear them, people offer them respect out of fear and they get what they want. This kind of power attracts a certain kind of character who get a kick out of making people scared of them. You should see the kind of abuse that illegal immigrants are subjected to at the hands of these gang leaders - men are beaten up, women are raped, sexually abused and to them it is all a power game. Also, it's not something ordinary people get into - nobody thinks, oh I will quit my job and go join an organized crime syndicate and work for the mafia. Often these people are sucked into it by their siblings, their friends, it was a part of their lives one way or another and what may seem extraordinary to you may be completely normal for them.
Money and power are the main motivations for those in the mafia.

Peter: Good jobs are hard to come by for young people - if you want to work for a good company like an investment bank or one of the top IT firms in the business, then you need to have a great degree, a great track record, everything needs to be excellent and if you don't have what it takes to get the attention of the HR department of these employers, then you're probably going to be condemned to a very mediocre job for not much money.  Times are hard and it is very competitive out there - so there's a certain amount of academic snobbery out there to keep out people who didn't go to the right schools, attended an elite university and had the right connections. It's a form of discrimination, many of the brighter young people may be intelligent but they still struggle to find a job.

These organized crime syndicates need well trained professionals like accountants and bankers as well. Perhaps the word 'gangsters' or 'mafia' conjure up the wrong image about organized crime, but some of the gangsters involved are extremely highly educated. It's not just mindless thugs you know. I know of this case where there was this crystal meth factory in Manchester run by a bunch of highly educated chemists who preferred to use their knowledge to produce illegal drugs than to work for the pharmaceutical industry because it paid more. Imagine if you're a young graduate desperately looking for a job after graduation and after the 100th rejection letter, you're willing to try anything out of sheer desperation if you're convinced that you're never going to find a decent job.
It is not easy to get a good job these days for young people.

Limpeh: So am I right to assume that I am surrounded by people involved in organized crime, it's just that they know how to fly under the radar, they do not draw attention to themselves?

PO: That's kinda correct. It's everywhere - but it doesn't affect everyone. It probably won't affect you personally.

Peter: It's not just in the movies you know, sometimes life is stranger than art. It's a part of modern society. The concept of the mafia or organized crime wasn't invented by some Hollywood screenwriter or some imaginative novelist you know, it's the other way around in this case: the art is reflecting an aspect of real life in our society.
Limpeh: Perhaps I am naive in thinking this, but one would have thought that with modern crime solving techniques in this day and age, the police would be able to catch those involved in organized crime more easily?

PO: The technology is there - but it has helped both the criminals and the police, technology does not discriminate. The criminals have used technology to their advantage as well. Then there's also the aspect of crime that has nothing to do with technology - corruption: everywhere in the world, the mafia has often infiltrated the local police through the simple means of bribery. It's simply a case of giving a police officer a big brown envelop full of money so he will look the other way - so that part of the equation has not changed at all and probably will never change with time.

Peter: I think you've watched too much TV and movies - things are a lot messier in real life, y'know?
Limpeh: Guys, thank you so much for talking to me. It has been most interesting for me to learn from you.

As usual, please feel free to let me know your thoughts on the issue by leaving a comment below, thank you for reading!


32 comments:

  1. I had always thought that criminals are lazy and stupid, that's why they steal. They money looks extremely attractive, a few thousand pounds in a few hours? I would probably have to study like crazy to a second-upper honour degree to get that kind of pay for a month. (As a fresh graduate)

    But I am wondering as well, for example I am gangter who is involved in some kind of fraud for several years and decided to buy a house. I am wondering how am I going to explain to the authorities where I got the money from since I am "unemployed" for a few years? If those mafia boss drove those super-expensive wouldn't have the police sensed something about his income source?

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    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

      As for the money... risk and reward. You are exposed to far fewer risks if you are an ordinary worker. For one, corporate reorganisations don';t tend to have as high a literal body count as criminal reorganisations.

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    2. Well you're wrong LOF, there are all kinds of criminals. The dumb criminals are the ones who get greedy and get caught because they take unnecessary risks, then there are those who are desperate and steal (eg. to feed a drug addiction)... I even once saw a homeless man try to steal bread from a supermarket as he was just so hungry, poor thing. Then there is organized crime, performed by those who are super intelligent, highly skilled and know they can get away with whatever crime they are committing. These people probably make in a week what I make in a year.

      In response to your question, gangster buys a house - the government doesn't care. No crime is being committed when a gangster buys a house - the authorities don't care where you got the money from. Listen I am a home owner and I own two properties in fact - when I buy a flat, the previous owner sold it to me and it is a private transaction between me and the previous owner. There's all the official paperwork etc and the flat is now in my name after the sale, but this is a PRIVATE transaction between two people, get it? That's no different from me selling you say an old laptop of mine, we agree on a price, you pay me the money, I give you the laptop - does the government get involved? No. Does the government care where you got the money from? No. Why? Because no crime is committed.

      I don't know what kind of government you think we have here in the UK (or in Singapore) but the government does NOT monitor stuff like how much money you have, how much you buy, what you own etc - it's not like some kind of police state where the government keeps tab on every single detail of your life and know exactly how much money you have in your bank account. That simply isn't true - private citizens are left on their own to get on with their lives and only

      If you buy a house, then the government only care if you are liable for things like stamp duty and other kinds of taxes that come with the purchase - they really DON'T GIVE A SHIT where you got the money from. Likewise, when you buy a car, again, pay the road tax, pay the VAT, pay whatever taxes you need to pay for your car sure -but again, the government DON'T CARE where u got the money from.

      I'd hate to live in a country where the government knows every single detail about my life, right down to how much I earn, how much I have in the bank, what I should be able to afford in terms of my house/car etc - that's a NIGHTMARE scenario that probably only exists in places like North Korea today.

      Really, even in Singapore, the government doesn't ask questions like that when you buy a house or car. What makes you think the government or police is so free as to ask questions like, "where did you get the money from?" when you make an expensive purchase? What kind of nightmare police state is this in your fantasy vision? Only North Korea is like that today! In the rest of the free world, us private citizens have a right to privacy, thank goodness for that!!

      Seriously, I know you're a student but you have some really warped ideas about police/government and the role of the state...

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    3. I see what you mean, but I am just stating a way to find out who the mafia boss are. If a person don't have any income source but is still to a large bank account, there might be something fishy about them.

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    4. You are looking at it the wrong way. Say if you're a 15 year old and you come home with a pair of shoes worth $300, your mother would say, "how on earth could you afford those expensive shoes? Where did you get the $300 for those shoes?!" Immediately questions would be asked if the mother spotted those expensive shoes - but that's within the confines of a small family where the mother knows everything about her child.

      Now in a big country of 63.23 million people, that's 63,230,000 people - there is no way the government can keep an eye on everyone's finances, about how much they earn, how much they own, how much debt they are in etc - no way, that's just way too many people and more importantly, whilst the logistics of the task make it simply impossible to carry out - you don't seem to see the important principle that private citizens DON'T want their privacy to be invaded by the government like that. I don't want the government to poke their nose into how much money I have, how much I earn, how much I can afford, whether I should be spending my money or not on the things I have etc.

      You are asking private citizens to surrender a HUGE amount of personal data to the government, to allow the government to monitor every aspect of our lives - for what? So that they may catch criminals.

      I'm sorry to say this but you talk like a young child who has no idea how the world works. Good grief. You are so naive. Everything you've said make me think that you're probably closer to 13 years old rather than 18 years old. It's like what you said earlier about criminals being lazy and stupid - I didn't even laugh at that statement, it just made me think that I was dealing with a 7 year old kid who is really that naive about the evil, nasty world we live in where the bad people (such as criminals) are evil and nasty and cannot possibly be super intelligent and earn thousands of dollars per day. Welcome to the real world LOF, time to grow up and smell the coffee.

      You think everything is so simple, that it is so easy to catch criminals - well you're totally wrong because you have absolutely no idea how the real world works. I don't know what satisfaction I can gain by telling you just how wrong you are, how childish you are, how naive you are and how salah you are (and I think Huichun/Kaishun is going to tell me off for being too harsh with you again), but you're so wrong I don't even know where to begin with you.

      You've already admitted earlier that you know nothing about banking (like why should you, you're a kid for crying out aloud), and there's a lot of laws about banking privacy - those laws are there to protect you as a citizen and one day when you grow up to be an adult, you'll be grateful for those laws.

      In the meantime, do yourself a favour and stop pretending that the problems of the world can be so easily solved. Yeah right, we'll just wheel in the student from Singapore to tell the police how to catch the mafia of the world - DUH. If it was that bloody easy, you think the world would be full of criminals outsmarting the police?

      Duh and double duh.

      Seriously. Like really. It's time you realized the world is full of terrible problems that no one has the solutions to and your childishly simplistic suggestions only make you look like a 6 year old kid when you make them - and no, it's not even cute when you come across as that naive. I feel sorry for your teacher at school.

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    5. Like seriously LOF, just how old are you? Am I dealing with like a 12 year old here or something? Cos I swear even when I was like 6 years old, I knew the world was evil, corrupt and nasty and I accepted that there were plenty of horrible people out there who were evil and cruel. I may not have understood the complexities of the world as a child, but at least I never expected there to be any simple solutions to the problems we faced. And if you're really a young 12 year old, then I'll soften my tone and stop being so harsh on you. But seriously, even for a 12 year old, some of the stuff you've come up with is still naive and childish.

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    6. And you think the big mafia boss would have a current account at the local bank - PLEASE LAH, good grief. The big mafia boss would have an offshore account in some jurisdiction like Switzerland, Jersey or Cayman Islands and the money would never be traced to him - like NEVER, it would be washed clean through complex money laundering procedures. This is a big industry - to turn dirty money into clean money so that the criminals can happily launder their money offshore without having any link to any local paper trail or high street banks.

      I hate to say this LOF, but given the fact that you know NOTHING about banking, the mafia are not 2 steps ahead of you - oh no, make that 2000 steps ahead of you. They have such incredibly efficient and sophisticated systems in place when it comes to their banking arrangements offshore and it is laughable that you are so naive/childish/silly that you think they will have a current account at a local bank. Excuse me whilst I laugh my fat ass off at just how bloody ridiculous your statement was, good f grief - girl, I know you're just a kid but banking is complex stuff for us adults and you don't need to worry about it for now, just use the pocket money that mummy and daddy gives you, but be aware that it is very complex and one day when you grow up, you may understand how complex banking is for criminals and the underworld.

      Like I have such a long reading list for this LOF, she has such HUGE gaps in her knowledge about everything from geography to physics to climate change to biology and banking/finance...

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    7. Sorry, but it seems as though we have different personalities.You sound like a realistic person while I am idealistic. I’m always so hopeful about people. As a 6 year-old, I believed that there's a good in everyone and nobody is totally bad.

      I’m always sure that everything can solved and people can live in harmony. I almost always think that under the right conditions everyone can be friends.. Stupid, I know, and I will cover up this side of me with lashings of cynicism. I just want to help by introducing new ideas- practical or not, it is still an idea which I hope can make this world a better place.

      What I meant is, you used to be idealistic about your generation being the generation who has successfully get rid of racism. But unfortunately, people are people and there are a lot of different people out there who are still racist.

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    8. Actually it takes a lot of effort to be a criminal or to be evil. They are not stupid nor lazy. Been watching House of Cards S2 (YEAH!), and I was exhausted by all the plotting and scheming and blackmailing. Better to just fantasize about taking revenge on those who have wronged me. A) It's not a crime and B) There are no limits to evil as they are all fantasies. We all do that. Been watching too many movies. Remember that horse's head in Godfather 1? See, that takes a lot of planning. I can't do that. I would be too afraid. Don't you just love movies?

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    9. Hi Limpeh,

      I think you might be a bit too harsh to LOF... Everyone's intelligence and reasoning abilities are different. Maybe pointing out the complexity of the world rather than saying 'Am I dealing with like a 12 year old here or something? Cos I swear even when I was like 6 years old...' would be better.

      Anyway, have a nice day!!

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    10. LOF: Sorry, sorry, sorry, i did it again, I got carried away. Sincere apologies. I could have made the same points without getting fed up/frustrated/angry with your naivety. My bad, I am sorry. In a nutshell, the mafia are 10 steps ahead of you and have already thought about this long ago and have dealt with this via offshore banking & money laundering. I guess it was just the way you naively said, "oh we'll do this and it'll solve the problem" that made me slap my forehead with my palm and say, "girl, you really imagine the world is so simple izzit? Like seriously?! You think no one has tried to solve this problem before you came along?"

      Seraphim: I have apologized. I realize I got carried away. I am v sorry, truly am.

      Di T: Like I said, there are professional criminals and there are desperate ones - like the homeless man who got caught trying to steal bread from a supermarket, he had no plan and got caught and he was crying and I just felt so sorry for him as the security hauled him away; how can you put someone like that in the same category as the organized crime mafia who make thousands of dollars an hour?

      I can't bring myself to watch HOC2 yet as I know I will be screaming at my computer at the actor who got the part of the evil Chinese bad guy John Zhang (instead of me) - I'll be shouting stuff like, "he's terrible! They should've picked me, I would've been far better!" Etc.

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    11. I wasn't thinking of the small time crooks. I was thinking of the mob. Like I said, too many movies. Thanks for reminding me about the evil Chinese guy. Will look out for him.

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    12. Totally, the mob turn crime into an art form.

      :) In the script I was given for the audition, the evil Chinese character was called John Zhang.

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    13. Looks like I don't need to intervene.

      You're not a bad guy at heart -- but you do sometimes take it out on those who don't (or can't) fight back. There's a word for that; you know what it is. Hopefully we don't have to end up using it.

      You said: "In response to your question, gangster buys a house - the government doesn't care. No crime is being committed when a gangster buys a house - the authorities don't care where you got the money from."

      You're straight up wrong. Authorities do care. The government and police don't ask questions like "where did you get that money from." That's what financial institutions and other types of companies are for.

      Look at "recommendations" (in effect, legal obligations for countries to meet) 20 through 23. http://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/recommendations/pdfs/FATF_Recommendations.pdf

      But it's not unexpected that you're wrong. Like you said. The industry is big and complex. And being big and complex, it's full of things that most people know nothing about.

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    14. I put my hand up and I know I was wrong in coming down like a ton of bricks on LOF when she made a simplistic assumption that the mafia have current accounts at their local high street bank - I could have explained the concept of money laundering along with offshore banking to her without being cruel. There's a part of me though which wanted to scream, "did it occur to you that the mafia have though about this issue before you mentioned it? Duh." It's a naivety that frustrates me I'm afraid, she doesn't realize that the mafia is run by intelligent people (more intelligent than her), the police are staffed by extremely intelligent people (a lot more intelligent than her) and this is a game of cat and mouse played between two very intelligent entities - and that a schoolgirl from Singapore is not going to provide the last piece of the puzzle to solve the problem of organized crime because all of these super intelligent people either involved in perpetuating or fighting organized crime have poured over all of these issues for many, many years and have explored every option long before she came along - ie. they're all 100 steps ahead of her. She doesn't see that - she sees herself as the Sherlock Holmes who can provide the solution - you know, that kind of naivety is kinda sweet at the end of the day for I am just a jaded old queen when it comes to the problems of the world.

      As for "where did you get that money from" - let me explain: when I bought my 2 properties, it was a private transaction on the private market. Sure everything was done legally, according to the rules, paid the stamp duty, paid the estate agent etc - but at no stage was I subject to an audit about "how did you earn the money? Where did it come from? Show us a list of your investments and assets - show us your pay slips from the last 5 years etc." No, And I was a CASH buyer on top of that, yet nobody asked me any questions about where my money was from - I'm no criminal but even if I was, nobody asked me anything or subjected me to a credit check or financial audit when I stumped up the money for an outright CASH purchase (no mortgage) for a central London property.

      There could be all manners of recommendations by FATF against money laundering, but at the end of the day, did my bank ask me where I make my money? You see in my case, it's fairly complex as I am self-employed and I do a few different jobs and I have money transferred into my bank account all the time by different people I do jobs for. Did my bank (HSBC) ever ask me, "so what kind of work are you getting paid for? What is this £5000 for? What is this £750 for? And this regular payment of £1100? And this cheque you deposited last week? What abou this cash deposit of £800 from two days ago?" Heck, I could be a drug dealer for all they care with these very irregular patterns in my income (perils of being self-employed) - but HSBC doesn't ask any questions, they just want my money in their bank.

      So if my bank doesn't ask any questions about where I make my money, no one (not the government, not the police) questions where my money is from when I make a CASH purchase on a central London property - then the FATF can recommend guidelines till the cows come home, I am telling you that in reality, in practice, nobody gets round to asking people like me any questions because we are flying under the radar. I am making a good living but I am not so ridiculously rich that I am moving millions of dollars a month.

      And for those who are moving millions a month, they can afford to hire the best accountants to move it offshore in a clandestine manner through the best money laundering schemes to make it look totally kosher to the authorities.

      There is a gulf between your expectations and reality Kaishun - mind the gap, as we say in London.

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    16. Sadly, on consideration. Can't continue this line of discussion, interesting as it is. My last comment is probably still within the lines, but to ensure an abundance of prudence, I had better delete it.

      Shame. It is interesting. :D

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    17. Here's the flaw in the logic of banks/financial asking individuals questions anyway. Let's imagine if I am a small time drug dealer.

      Bank Manager: Alex, can you account for these earnings for the last 6 months? They look rather irregular.

      Alex: That's because I am self-employed.

      Bank Manager: What kind of work do you do?

      Alex: Well, I buy and sell drugs.

      Bank Manager: Excuse me, did I hear you correctly?

      Alex: Oh, I meant to say I buy and sell stuff for drugstores, you know for pharmacies.

      Here's the bottom line: would any criminal tell his bank manager "I am a criminal who obtained all this money through illegal activities - now you can freeze my assets, call the police, whilst I sit here and wait for the police to turn up and slap the handcuffs on me."

      So what's the point of 'asking questions' if no criminal is ever gonna tell the truth about their ill-gotten gain anyway?

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    18. But let's shift the focus away from me, imagine if I was not a small time drug dealer but a major drug baron who moves millions of dollars worth of drugs a month. Would I even put myself in a situation like that in the first place, where I have to answer the questions of a high street bank manager? No, I'd hire a crooked accountant to move my money offshore, through elaborate money laundry schemes, so that a clean front is maintained and no questions are asked.

      Like I said before, the criminals have thought about this already and are many steps ahead already.

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  2. Yo LIFT, guess where I will be in the early part of Mar? Yes, the aniki is coming to UK! This is for a short 1 week trip in lieu of a possible transfer to the UK office. Won't be in London but Basingstoke most of the time but come weekend i might hop over there if time permits.

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    1. Yo yo yo - big brother, glad to know you're possibly transfering to the UK office but BASINGSTOKE?! At least it's not too far from London but it's a sleepy little town really. Will you be based there? Have you ever been there? It's hardly a tourist hotspot...

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    2. I'll be the first to admit I'm very ignorant about the local geography and any aspect of UK life apart from popular culture (British 80's pop bands, shows on BBC like Top Gear, Little Britain, Monty Python, etc). But the company have a few offices in UK and I would be commuting between LTP and Basingstoke for this role which is why I'm going there. Also it won't have relocation benefits (yes I will be on local package so I'm stealing the job from you Brits, so sue me) and if it were in London I highly doubt I can afford to move over based on the salary package.

      Mid-term prospects are good since I'm a commonwealth citizen I can start PR proceedings after 5 years residency. Long term prospects are even better since UK is the global HQ for the company and I can be better positioned to take up any upcoming global positions as my career progression has been hindered by the parent company's politicking in AsiaPac region.

      But even if I get a pay cut I will still leave since I hate the PAP and nothing about Singapore attracts me (not Orchard Road, Marina Bay Sands, Sentosa or the locals). At the very least if I get to be a British Citizen I can finally access my CPF and live my life in my own way and not what PAP intends.

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    3. Well Basingstoke is one of those commuter towns, ie. family man buys a house in Basingstoke, gets a job in London. Wife and kids life in Basingstoke, kids go to school there, family has a nice home and the husband valiantly gets up at 6 am, get there train into London, then comes home later in the evening - that's what he does for at least two decades to raise a family in a big house rather than a small London flat. Hell no, I can't do that, I live in a small London flat but I value my beauty sleep!

      It's 72 km to central London, so on the train it's about 45 mins or so depending on whether you get the fast train or not. So if you're determined to come into London from Basingstoke, it ain't far but you've gotta pay for the train tickets lah, not cheap (but that's coming from a cyclist...)

      Long term plans? I say, work a while in the UK and see how happy you are with the company here lah, I say so much of this depends on whom you work with, who your new team/boss is rather than a straight forward Singapore vs UK comparison. Trust me, I've worked for good and bad companies in the UK and the kind of relationship you have with your boss is paramount.

      As a contractor, I am more footloose & fancy-free these days in that I work for more than one person (phew) so all my eggs are not in one basket and I just had a nice chat with one of the guys who gives me work and we talked about the possibility about me doing something for him in SPAIN this summer. Oooh!

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    4. Well I'm living in a rental in SG and once I hit 35 I can get my own HDB but it would be in Punggol or Chua Chu Kang so I'm looking at more than 1hr crazy squeezy travel to my office at City Hall. Or I can go stay and work in Basingstoke.

      I've worked with the hiring manager before an generally she seems like an okay person. But most Europeans give you more autonomy compared to the micromanaging style of Chinamen or Japanese bosses so i should be fine.

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    5. Sorry, English teacher mode here. You LIVE in Basingstoke/Punggol etc - ie. that's your address, your residence on a long term basis. But when I go to say Phuket for a 3 day holiday, I STAY in this hotel by the beach for just those 3 days. Singaporeans always make the mistake of using 'stay' when they really mean 'live' and that just brings out the English teacher in me. So you may 'stay' at a hotel in Basingstoke on this business trip in March for a few days, but if you were to rent a flat there for a job at the UK HQ of your company, then you LIVE in Basingstoke - different status.

      Basingstoke is pleasant enough, I just find it dull and boring. Different strokes, if your job has to be there, then by all means live close to the office and then get more hours of beauty sleep!

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    6. Hi LIFT I know the difference so you're preaching to the choir. I will be staying in Basingstoke for 1 week on a working trip first. After that if I'm still interested then I would need to go for an inter view and have HR apply for the work visa before I can considered myself truly transferred over. It's still a maybe sort of thing.

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    7. Sorry mate, that's just a pet peeve of mine when it comes to Singlish.

      Let me know how it goes in Basingstoke. :)

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  3. I recommed the movie Lord of War. It give us an insight on how they escaped the law while making millions through illegal arms trading.

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  4. Ok, since my experience is not dealing being a criminal or dealing with such, I will move away from the topic.

    Anyway, do you still remember my "rant" on the pioneer generation? Whoa, I never knew that they could impact policy-making to such great extent. Their primary concern- healthcare- which they claimed that they are unable to save up for despite being the generation that had the most affordable public housing ever in Singapore.

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    1. Since you are a student, allow me to use an analogy from my student days.

      I knew my good friend Joe had not studied for an important test and he was going to cheat. So he wrote some of the key answers down on a piece of paper and then stuffed it in his pocket, he intended to go to the toilet in the middle of the test, look at the piece of paper in his pocket so he could know the answers. Things didn't go to plan, as he got up to go to the toilet, he bumped against his table and the piece of paper FELL out of his pocket. The teacher picked it up and what did Joe do next?

      He simply denied that he was trying to cheat and claimed that he had forgotten that the piece of paper was there, it was something he had used to study whilst waiting for the bus and on the bus. The teacher decided to let him get away with it since she couldn't prove that he had intended to cheat (and I was not going to say a word about Joe telling me his plan from earlier).

      My point? Criminals do NOT confess to their crimes if they can help it. It doesn't matter whether you are a drug dealer shifting money you have made from selling illegal drugs or a secondary school student trying to cheat on a test - even if you get caught, you make up stories, protest your innocence and convince the person who caught you that they made a mistake and that you're completely innocent. Why? Because confessing to your crime would mean facing a really tough punishment.

      So just asking the teacher or bank manager to ask the criminal, "did you do it?" Well, that means nothing because the answer is always going to be, "no I didn't - I am innocent." Asking the question is a fruitless exercise because the answer is predictable 100% of the time. No one is ever going to say, "yeah I'm a criminal, please call the police to come here and arrest me." That is just never ever going to happen - so if we can already predict that, what is the point of asking the question in the first place? I'm just trying to be logical here.

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  5. I'm a bit late to the topic, and the discussion might have moved on, but there's a TED talk that gave a very sobering insight to the sophistication of the Mexican drug cartels.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/rodrigo_canales_the_deadly_genius_of_drug_cartels.html

    It's worth the 17 minutes to watch that, just to get an idea of how much like a ruthless business organized crime is like.

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