Friday, 28 February 2014

Capturing the voices of the subaltern: the TRS dilemma.

OK we seem to have gotten into this debate about editorial control when it comes to the articles that TRS publishes and I have received a lot of quite nasty comments for suggesting an greater exercise of quality control on the part of the TRS team. I can see where they're coming from and they're trying to strike a balance - but I am pretty surprised at how much Singaporeans react against this idea and have confused it with that of censorship. For them, it's like "as if we don't have enough censorship already in Singapore and this guy wants more self-censorship in the alternative media?" But for now, I want to deal with the comment left me by the TRS admin. Let's start with his comment:
Do you know what it means to edit an article?
Hi Limpeh,

Thanks for the detailed feedback. You are right, there is a lot more we could do to control at least the quality of writing in some of our articles and the poor quality of some of our article do indeed turn away more highly educated potential followers of our website. We are aware of this but have come to accept it as a trade off. Like you said, there is a balance to be had between representing the authentic voices of our readers and being a highly professional and credible website.

The balance between these qualities will ultimately determine the type of readers we attract. I think that a good comparison might be TOC. From what I can gather, they have very good writers and their articles are highly intellectual and pleasant to read for your average university educated Singaporean. The problem on the other hand is that the lower educated, may actually find it difficult to follow some of the arguments made simply because the level of language used is too complex or there is an assumed background knowledge of the way laws or the economy works.

The reality is that we can't please everyone, no matter how much we try. There is also a need for websites to find a niche. Since there are already other, more intellectual websites around, we feel it is important to also reach out to the 'Average Singaporean'.We may make some enemies along the way, but ultimately, we have to accept that too. No harm sharing with you that we are in dire need of manpower too. our volunteers come and go quickly and we are constantly in shortage of people helping to moderate our Facebook, website and such. Anyway, very impressed by your responses to us and many of our readers are big fan of your blog already. Hope to share more of your articles in the future :)
Is there a compromise to be reached on this issue?

So, we have already talked about the issue of quality control - if you do create an archive of 'authentic' Singaporean voices (especially those at the bottom of the food chain - the subaltern), then I wonder what the point is of such an archive? If you're trying to capture the voices of those who are not otherwise being represented in the mainstream press, then I am not sure you're using the best approach by having this 'free for all' approach - how do you think this looks from the outside? It may bring great joy to some 'average Singaporeans' to see their (rather poorly written) articles published on The Real Singapore's website, but what does this do to the overall reputation of TRS?

As for TOC, yes they do have a far more sensible structure to their approach (and I really like their website), but this is where I have to voice my main disagreement with you! Allow me to quote specifically the part of your statement I disagree with, "The problem on the other hand is that the lower educated, may actually find it difficult to follow some of the arguments made simply because the level of language used is too complex or there is an assumed background knowledge of the way laws or the economy works...  we feel it is important to also reach out to the 'Average Singaporean'." 
Should uneducated/lesser educated  people also voice their opinions online?

Whilst I can see your aim in trying to reach out to a readership who may not naturally take to TOC, I fundamentally disagree with your approach - let me spell it out to you plainly: you think that the only way to appeal to these 'average Singaporean' readers is to publish articles written by people just like them. Well, I know I am going to get a lot of hate mail for this for sounding elitist, but I disagree with you on that point. There is a huge difference between tailoring an article in very simple English specifically for people who are not very educated and simply hitting them with a very poorly written article. The former allows them to understand the issue discussed in plain language - the latter will probably only confuse them further because a poorly written article is not going to enlighten anybody. And this is not about elitism or snobbery: let's look at how it works in the real world. Time for a reality check, please.

Now I have a young nephew in primary school in Singapore and I often read with him - he would read one page, I would read the next page and so on. I do this to try to improve his English. Certainly, the books we read are quite simple and suitable for young children. My nephew would struggle to read the kind of books I enjoy because those books are aimed at a far more highly educated adult audience. However, who writes these books that my nephew reads? Are they other children or are these books written by quite highly educated adults? 
I tried to get my nephew interested in reading.

The best children's writers are not children - JK Rowling wrote the Harry Potter series in her thirties and Enid Blyton continued writing way into her sixties. There is a very big difference between someone like JK Rolwing writing a story specifically for children and a young child (like my nephew) actually writing a story. Thus that is why the textbooks used by my nephew in his primary schools, the story books he reads are all crafted by adults and not children for obvious reasons - sorry if this sounds elitist, but you have to entrust these important responsibility to people who know what they are doing, rather than make the assumption that a child is more likely to want to read the writing of another child. It doesn't work like that - children enjoy reading Harry Potter because it is stunningly well written and they probably have no desire to read each other's writing because it is of poor quality. It boils down to that: quality. 

Do you know about the Simple English version of Wikipedia? It allows those who speak English as a second/foreign language to have the same kind of experience, using Wikipedia without struggling with the language. Is the Simple English version of Wikipedia actually created or written by people who struggle with English themselves? No it isn't - it is created by people who are actually really proficient in English, even if the target audience is for people who struggle with English. We do not want a situation where the blind is leading the blind - that helps nobody. 
Who do you think should edit Wikipedia in Simple English? 

In the UK (where I live), we have a range of newspapers catering for different sections of the society. Some newspapers cater to the highly educated elites whilst others have to resort to scantily clad women and endless football coverage to sustain the interest on the "readers" with very little news content -  I am using inverted commas over the word "readers" because they are "reading" the pictures of the scantily clad women. Are the journalists who work on these tabloids barely literate themselves? No, you actually have to be pretty darn good at what you're doing because at the end of the day, you're still creating a product specifically targeting a certain section of British society and pitching it right involves actually quite a lot of business acumen and marketing know how. It's hardly the kind of job for a barely literate Brit obsessed with tits and football - they consume the tabloids, they don't write them. Big difference.

I suppose the concept of having a newspaper full of scantily clad women (yes they are topless) verging on soft core porn may be foreign to my Singaporean readers, but goodness me, this is the norm in the UK when it comes to the tabloid press trying to persuade barely literate men to buy the "newspaper" (again, I'm using the term "newspaper" with inverted commas as there is more soft core porn than news in these tabloids). 
So, to summarize: children don't write books for children: adult writers do. Wikipedia English was created for people who struggle with English, not by people who struggle with English. Likewise, the tabloid press is created  for less-educated readers who prefer bite-size chunks of news (along with loads of football and scantily clad women), not by barely literate British men. What do you think will happen if we published books written by young children - will they be as good as those written by JK Rowling? What if we allowed someone who barely speaks English to be the chief editor of Simple English Wikipedia? And what if you put someone who was barely literate in charge of a tabloid newspaper?

Let's get very practical here - life is not fair. I remember my PE lessons when I was in primary school - there was this super fat boy in my class who was hopeless at any kind of sports. The PE teachers would go out of their way to involve him, during football or basketball - we were instructed to pass the ball to him so he would have the chance to be involved, otherwise he would never be fast enough to even get anywhere near the ball during the game and he would feel left out. In real life, those who simply do not have the right writing skills will never get a job in journalism and even if they did publish a blog, they wouldn't get any readers if their articles sucked. Yet the admin team at TRS are acting like my primary school PE teachers in trying to give everyone a fair chance on their website, even those who can't write at all. What do you think happens when you try to artificially level the playing field here? 
I've got a bitter dose of reality for you that you may not like and at the risk of sounding like Miss "get out of my elite uncaring face", I'm going to say it. TRS is barking up the wrong tree when they believe that they can attract more readers by publishing badly written articles by your 'average man' in the street'. It doesn't work like that I'm afraid because of the fundamental difference between creating a product for them, rather than creating a product by them. For vs by - big difference, mind the gap. So what are you really trying to do here TRS? Do you really want them to read the articles on your website and engage them politically? Or are you giving them the chance to publish their (really bad written) articles? These are two quite different agendas here - but you're confusing them as one of the same.

Since you've said that you want to engage these people, you want less educated Singaporeans to read your website but you're afraid they will be put off by very 'cheem' articles, what should we do to help them then? I have identified the problem - now I am going to offer the solution. Let's not reinvent the wheel here and we'll follow the model that Simple English Wikipedia has set. Here are a few very simple guidelines for articles to be translated into 'Simple English (Singapore)' to appeal to your less educated Singaporean readers:
Have you ever read an article you just couldn't understand?

1. Brevity: Keep it short and sweet. The Simple English Wikipedia entries are a lot shorter than the standard version because people who struggle with English tend to read a lot more slowly and can only consume a far smaller volume of information at a go. Think about how short and simple children's books are: there are colourful pictures and very few words a page - that makes the reading process far less tedious than a wall of text.

2. Avoid big words, especially foreign ones:  keep the language as simple as possible and focus on the facts, the same way a primary school textbook would present a science lesson in very simple English. Avoid loan words from French, Latin, German, Greek, Japanese, Russian, Korean, Spanish, Italian and other languages that your audience would not be likely to know: we often take for granted that our readers will not be fazed by Latin words like bona fide, quasi, verbatim, de facto, persona non grata and ad hoc but there is always a simple English equivalent for these Latin phrases. So instead of using the term "bona fide", you can simply use words like genuine or authentic. However, loanwords from Malay, Hokkien, Cantonese and Mandarin are permitted within reason.
3. Keep it very local: avoid references to other cultures and countries. So avoid referencing Freud, Jung, Proust, Plato, Spivak, Molière or Aristotle (let's face it, if you're using Aristotle to back up your argument, you're really just showing off to the world, 'hey look how highly educated and atas I am, I am referencing Aristotle!'), you can  instead quote people like Jack Neo, Michelle Chong, Fandi Ahmad, Siew Kum Hong, Xiaxue or Lee Kuan Yew. Referencing atas Greek philosophers will only alienate your readers whilst keeping it very local, using references they will be familiar with will draw them in. Avoid anything too highbrow - the article is to inform, not a platform for the author's ego.

So if someone is trying to do something maverick, I may describe his actions as 'going off-piste'. I wouldn't think twice about using a skiing reference like that - certainly even if you don't personally ski, many of you would have heard about Michael Schumacher's terrible skiing accident in December 2013 which happened when he went skiing off-piste. It essentially refers to venturing off the marked ski routes and skiing down unpatrolled, ungroomed and unmarked slopes - it is an activity that only expert skiers/snowboarders should attempt. However, if I were to write for a very local Singaporean audience, I would not use a skiing reference and instead use the phrase, "venturing off the marked paths at MacRitchie Reservoir Park". A bit more wordy but it still conveys the same sentiment in a very Singaporean context.
4. Using pictures and videos to break up the wall of text: this is something I do in all my blog posts, as a rule, I insert a picture or video every two or three paragraphs to break up the wall of text. This is vital for people who are simply not used to picking up a 300 page novel and getting through 300 pages of "walls of text". Again, think about how there are so many graphics, photos and illustrations in children's books and how they seem to disappear altogether in novels for adults - let's not reinvent the wheel here.

5. Apply the same academic rigour and high standards: a simplified version of a story doesn't have to be a bad story as long as the same high standards are uniformly applied! Imagine how you would feel if you picked up your child's/nephew's/niece's primary school text book and spotted a factual error - would you accept "this was written by a child for a child" as an explanation for that error? It doesn't matter whether you're writing for children, people who speak English as a second/foreign language or people who are just not very educated - they deserve a high standard of journalism and you can customize an article for them whilst ensuring that it is well written, in simple English. 

Where does this leave us then?
I think there is a simple compromise to be reached! Good grief, there are so many people who are making me out to be worse than the PAP, on trying to censor the voices of 'real Singaporeans' - nothing could be further from the truth. Rather, I simply want to see the admin team at TRS function more like editors rather than just a bunch of guys who do little more than cut & paste articles from various places onto the TRS website. In any case, an editor is there to help the journalist, not censor or hinder the journalist. Even the best journalists in the world's most famous newspapers are subject to this kind of scrutiny by their editors who will make doubly sure that mistakes are not allowed to slip through the net and that is how they maintain their high standards.

Let me share with you a story from my time at university - I remember the first essay assignment I was given to write at university and I had missed the briefing where they explained what the standard format was. When I saw the title of the essay, I thought yeah this is easy, I can write about this - so I sat down and churned out 5000 words of what I knew about the topic in a format that was unacceptable. My tutor could have easily failed me for that assignment - but she was nice about it, she took me aside and spent a few minutes explaining to me where I had gone wrong and what I had to do to fix it. After her pep talk, I rewrote the essay and got an A grade for it.
My tutor could have easily failed me - instead she helped me.

Now I was very grateful for the gracious way my kind tutor had handled the situation - now how would you feel if the tutor not only failed me for the essay, but then published it on the university's website to show everyone what I wrote just because that was 'authentic' or 'honest'. If that happened, I would feel that I was punished for having written a bad essay and it would have been embarrassing to be subjected to that kind of treatment. The fact is, my tutor gave me the help I needed to improve the quality of my essay and it was still my writing at the end of the day - it was not 'censored' by my tutor, she merely gave my helpful pointers as to where improvements and corrections had to be made and what I needed to do to get that A grade for that essay. It was still my essay at the end of the day.

Isn't it rather condescending to just assume that these writers who submit to their writing to TRS cannot and will not ever improve their writing style? This this desire for 'authenticity' simply a red herring preventing them from exercising some editorial control when it comes to the quality of the articles? Now, how can this be executed in practice? Once again, I am prepared to be helpful and constructive! I have a few very practical suggestions for you.
1. When the editorial team receives an poorly written piece (about a very interesting subject) that has some potential and could do with some revisions, then the editor could work with the writer to improve the quality of the piece without compromising on capturing the authentic 'voice' of the writer. For example, if the writer mentions an incident as a case study without supplying the vital facts (who, what, when, how, why), the editor could either ask the writer to supply more details to make the case study more robust and convincing. If the writer is unable to do so, then the editorial team could help with the research process and ideally, teach the writer how this process should be done.

2. The editorial should limit their role to making helpful suggestions rather than dictating what revisions the writer must make to improve the piece so as not to influence the content of the piece.

3. The fact is many of these writers have not even had the opportunity to write an essay at university, never mind actually work with a professional editor for paid journalism work and that given the opportunity, many of these writers can actually benefit greatly from the help a good editor can give and with just a few simple pointers (the same way my tutor at university spoke to me for no more than ten minutes), vast improvements can be made easily. I didn't know what my errors were until my university tutor explained them to me, likewise many of these writers don't even realize where they may have made mistakes and may actually appreciate feedback from an editor. Learning how to present your case persuasively and convincingly in writing is an extremely useful skill to have! These writers can then take these useful writing skills and apply them in other areas of their lives -  instead of keeping them authentically inarticulate, why not help them instead by teaching them such a very useful skill?
Many of us will value constructive feedback and enjoy working with an editor.

4. It should be explained clearly to all involved that the purpose of the editorial process is to improve the quality of the stories, help the writers rather than censor the writers. Helping the writer is very different from censoring the writer: censoring means telling the writer, "you can't write that, you can't say this." Helping the writer is quite different, "I know this is what you're trying to express here, this is indeed a very relevant and important point you're making, but can you elaborate on it please, providing more useful details, so that it can be clearer to the reader?"

5. It also works the other way! If indeed you receive a piece from a blogger like me that you wish to make more accessible to a wider audience, then feel free to work with me to produce a 'Singaporean simple English' version of the article. I would be more than happy to make the necessary revisions to suit the audience - after all, I am not that fussed about being 100% unedited and authentic, oh please. I am not some diva who will get upset the moment an editor makes some revisions to my article, it's no big deal. Rather, I do see the value in making articles far more accessible and pleasurable to read for a wider audience especially in the age of social media.
How can my writing reach a wider audience on social media?

The bottom line is that I think the TRS editorial team is sacrificing way too much in terms of trying to be 100% authentic - think about it. With a more active editorial team working with and helping your writers, the result can be a vast overall improvement in the quality of your writing (including producing a steady stream of very high quality 'Singaporean simple English' articles specifically targeting those less educated Singaporeans).  It is a win-win-win situation: the reputation of your website improves greatly, your writers receive constructive feedback to improve their writing skills and most of all, your readers have a far more pleasant experience when visiting your website.

The reality of course is that, by their own admission, "No harm sharing with you that we are in dire need of manpower too. our volunteers come and go quickly and we are constantly in shortage of people helping to moderate our Facebook, website and such." So what I am suggesting is not possible at the moment given their manpower shortage - so perhaps their problem is caused not so much by a misguided quest for 100% authenticity, but rather, a serious lack of reliable volunteers to function as editors. So until they get more volunteers on board, any talk of a more proactive editorial team for them is not practical. I do understand the constraints they are facing.
The TRS team is lacking in manpower at the moment.

I'd like to end by dealing with the haters who have been attacking me, some of the comments left on the TRS website have been telling me to fuck right off, if I don't like what I read on the TRS website, fuck off and go to read another website but stop telling TRS what to do. There are so many bad websites out there, why am I singling TRS out and criticizing them? Allow me to respond to this:
  1.  I actually know some of the people at the TRS and I know they appreciate constructive feedback to improve their website. They know that their website isn't perfect and they do genuinely want to improve the user experience of their website - so rather than becoming defensive in the face of criticism, they have actually been very forthcoming in listening to what I have to say. If I didn't think that I was in any kind of position to influence them, I wouldn't have bothered - but the fact that they have been so engaging has proven me right. 
  2. I am part of the alternative media community in Singapore and we all have a united goal in providing a credible alternative to the very pro-PAP SPH machine - thus there is a mutual understanding that whilst we may not always agree on all issues, we are ultimately on the same side and can work together. 
  3. The people at TRS understand that I am not proposing censorship but simply trying to raise the editorial standards at TRS and improve their readers' experience - this is the kind of help a friend offers and whilst my criticisms are harsh, this is the kind of harsh criticism that two friends can give each other. I would not be as blunt if I didn't actually know some of the people at TRS personally. 
  4. Despite what some of their readers may think, the admin team at TRS know the difference between an attack on their editorial approach and an attack on them per se - I have made a grave criticism on their editorial approach, but they also suffer far more attacks from those who feel that they have no right to exist at all in the first place, that they should be shut down and that journalism should be left to the SPH. The team at TRS know who is an enemy and who is a friend - and I am clearly a friend, not an enemy. 
  5. Frankly I couldn't give a fuck what their readers think about what I have to say, I can't please everyone, but the least I can do is offer my friends at TRS some constructive feedback. 
Let's not play the blame game here.

So there you go. I hope I've explained my stance on this issue clearly. I come in the spirit of being constructive and helpful - even if my words may be rather strong at times. As always dear readers, please let me know your thoughts on the issue - that is what the comments section below is for. Many thanks for reading.


34 comments:

  1. Without referring to any website in particular, consider that anyone exercising the level of editorial control you advocate could be exposed to more liability than they may already be exposed to. That's not a small step to take.

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    1. They have already said that they don't have enough manpower (lack of volunteers, by their own admission) - hence the bottom line is that they cannot edit because there's no one to do so, not because they care that much about 'authenticity' per se. That's one way to look at it.

      I remember years ago when I was renovating my flat, the builder didn't varnish one of the wooden doors and he claimed, "oh I thought it would look nicer like that." And I had to look at him with that 'don't treat me like an idiot' look, I know you either forgot to do it or was hoping that I wouldn't notice - but don't pretend that you deliberately meant to not varnish that door. Sure enough, he promptly varnished that door after I pointed it out to him.

      What are they trying to do then - simply capture the inarticulate voices of the subaltern or give them a voice, a platform to air their views which otherwise won't be heard? If it is the latter, then simply publishing their bad writing without giving them any element of help whatsoever is just cruel, it's setting them up to fail. It's like "encouraging" the kid who fails the exams by publishing not just the results, but all the exam scripts in the school website so everyone can see for themselves just how badly he did. It's cruel, it's not helpful.

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    2. While it is of course your right to advise someone to do something which could lead to that person potentially taking on legal liability for inaccurate or false statements written by a contributor, I would certainly hope that such a person would consider such advice very carefully, including thinking through all the possible implications, before acting on it.

      On my part, from a purely personal point of view, I think you are being naive in considering positives without also considering negatives.

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    3. If you find me guilty of idealism, then so be it - guilty as charged.

      In any case, I refer you to my latest reply to Kevin Jang below, ref: fat kids on the school basketball team.

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    4. No. I don't find you guilty of idealism. I find that you give and are giving people poor advice.

      Anyone who publishes content faces legal liability. But an argument -- maybe not a successful one, but still an argument -- can be made that if all a person does is offer a platform for someone to publish their content, the platform operator is not liable for the content provider's content. What you want the platform operator to do is actively contribute to the content, and therefore take on liability for the content.

      In simple English. That increases the chance that the platform operator will get sued and then be forced to close down.

      What you suggest is deeply unfair. Because there are those who cannot write, you would advocate a course of action which could strip those who can write of a platform.

      I could accept naivete as a reason for offering this advice. But if you continue to advocate it after I have explained that you can get someone else into real trouble, knowing that you will not face any of the consequences that the person who takes your advice does... #SMFH.

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    5. OK there are some strands to unpick here and I feel that it is necessary to give this the good old bullet point treatment.

      1. If the team @ TRS is unwilling to take on a more active editorial role (be it for legal or manpower reasons), then they can still exercise discretion and quality control when it comes to publishing blatantly badly written articles.

      2. If they still insist (for whatever ethical reasons) that they value authenticity above everything else, then that's akin to a primary or secondary school publishing the worst homework, tests and exams fuck ups on their website to show the world just how utterly goondu and hopeless their worst students are. What is the point of that - apart from public humiliation for those students? Sure there's something painfully honest, brutally honest about publishing something like that (which is 100% authentic) but apart from public humiliation (how very cruel)... what else is achieved I ask you?

      3. What is the point of such a platform then, when indeed there's really nothing to stop anyone (genius or idiot alike) gaining access to the internet (forums, blogs, twitter, facebook, all other forms of social media etc) to voice their opinions online? Certainly, TRS isn't the only outlet for the lesser-educated in Singapore when it comes to expressing themselves online.

      4. There are tough choices to be made if TRS insists on appointing themselves as the guardian angel of the Singaporean subaltern - when you take on a difficult challenge, you shouldn't be surprised when you are faced with tough choices to be made. Even Spivak - the Indian feminist philosopher who championed the cause of the Indian female subaltern, even she acknowledged the difficulties in trying to capture the genuine voices of the subaltern and recognized that compromises have to be made in this quest.

      5. The alternative is of course, for the TRS to loosen up on this quest for authentic voices and simply publish fewer articles of higher quality - I really don't see the point in publishing hundreds of badly written articles when most people would read those articles and think, "that was a waste of 2 minutes of my life which I will never get back, duh." Quality vs quantity - have you been on the TRS website recently?

      6. I can't tell TRS what to do but I do know they do have the expertise in-house to deal with all legal issues as they do have lawyers on their team - surely you and I trying to give them legal advice is like taking coals to Sheffield.

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    6. PS. Let me paraphrase that last point as I am not sure I got that quote from Walter Mitty right. "Surely you and I trying to give them legal advice is like sending tea to China." (ie. China is the world's biggest producer of tea, you don't need to send them tea, they have plenty already.) I seem to recall that Walter Mitty quote from ages ago - it illustrated the same point about trying to send someone to solve a problem when there are already enough experts on hand to deal with the situation. I last read Walter Mitty (the book) when I was a teenager years ago (and no I didn't see the movie) and I just remembered that quote and I must've remembered the 'coals to Sheffield' quote wrongly as I couldn't find it on google... I think the reference was that Sheffield (or whatever town it was in England) had plenty of coal mines back in the day and you didn't need to send coal to Sheffield as there was plenty there locally.

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    7. Your advice is still bad.

      TRS has a vision. Whether good or bad, it is theirs. You have the right to ask them to change, just as much as they have the right to -- and in my personal view should -- ignore you. That you do not see a point does not mean that there is no point. The internet is big enough for there to be multiple outlets of differing quality and quantity.

      Really, this is why I told you that I find your views a bit cock. Because when you talk about those who are intolerant, self-absorbed and demand that the world change to suit their needs, I find that on occasion you need to examine the beam in your own eye.

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    8. And the phrase is coals to Newcastle. I let it stand because I couldn't be bothered to correct you.

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    9. Well, in this case, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree in this case.

      TRS may have a vision, but they also have goals - now is it for me to tell them whether their vision, methods and approach will help them achieve their goals? Questionable - I know some of the people on their team (hence their prompt and detailed responses to my previous articles - they do follow my blog) and I provide harsh but constructive feedback for their website. Now as Luck of Fire has pointed out previously, there are so many crap websites out there, why single out TRS? The fact is, I know I can exert some influence over them, whilst I have zero influence over other crap websites (since I don't know the people behind those other websites). I don't know if you realized that I actually know some of he people there - that does not mean that they will do as I say, but it does mean at least that I am not dealing with strangers here, but with friends.

      As for the argument about giving the subaltern a voice - I've stated my position, you've stated yours, let's leave it at that and agree to disagree. Feel free to dislike my POV, the same way I am going to insist on disagreeing with you as much as I welcome your comment here, as always.

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    10. Ref: Coal(s) to Newcastle. Right, I realized that after I had posted it - right idiom, wrong northern town. Gimme a break, I was trying to remember a line from a book I read over 20 years ago. The mining industry is well and truly dead in the UK (thanks to Thatcher in the 1980s) and it's not a saying in common usage these days...

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    11. Fair. Everyone bears the consequences for their own words and actions. We can agree to disagree; let's move on.

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    12. Absolutely. I think I received a lot of heat on this issue because people think that it is not my business whether or not TRS' goals are ultimately met by their approach and that I am being a terrible kaypoh in pointing out that their approach does not really serve their goals well. I spoke up and pointed out a misalignment there and suggested steps to correct it - now did I speak out of turn? I think that depends on whether I am speaking as a stranger/kaypoh or as a friend and perhaps I had taken the wrong approach by publicly chastising them on this misalignment when I could have easily done his in private, behind closed doors - rather than via the medium of my blog.

      As for the legal stuff, allow me to assure you that they have some pretty good legal brains on their team at TRS - coals to NEWCASTLE, as you say :)

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  2. TRS has the same problem that the Temasek Review, now picketed and probably gone low-profile, has--simply a motley crew of writers who vent via the laptop or computer without serious self-evaluation or editing. That is largely why the caliber of writing tends to be rather crass at times. That said, there is always some degree of value or 'merit', depending on how one interprets the information presented there. For example, when the Singapore Police Force website was hacked or down, TRS posted a picture of the website being hacked with gay porn images(ie. two muscular gay men on top of each other in a more than just 'compromising' position). I am not sure if it was a hoax or for real, but for once, a few friends and I were just giggling with amusement.

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    1. Oh I remember TR. They call themselves TR Emeritus now www.tremeritus.com/ - much more low profile. But still there.

      The key problems I had with the reasoning that TRS offered me is as follows:

      1. If you're trying to engage less-educated Singaporeans, you do not offer them really badly written articles by other less-educated Singaporeans: it is simply the blind leading the blind and everyone ends up more confused and less enlightened. Talk about a bad method that leads to political apathy - these people need clear, simple explanations in language that they do understand, presented in a manner that they can access: the same way children's textbooks are prepared by experts who know exactly how to make such materials accessible to young children. You don't let young children write textbooks for other children - the same way you don't let less-educated Singaporeans try to explain politics to other less-educated Singaporeans. It doesn't work like that.

      You can't have your cake and eat it - like the PE teacher who wants the fat kids in the class to have a chance and level the playing field by making the other kids pass the ball to them during a game of basketball or football - sure you can achieve that and allow the fat kids to play alongside the really fit kids. But what if there was a tournament and the school had to pick a team to go up against the rival school? You then have to decide, do I select the fat kids to give them the experience of representing the school at a major sports event (and subsequently get seriously trashed 85-0 by the other school) or do I leave out the fat kids and send the fittest players to this tournament? It's a tough choice - but you cannot expect to send the fattest kids to the tournament and still expect them to win: that's just a totally unrealistic expectation.

      Similarly, okay TRS wants to engage people who can't write and give them a voice - but that is akin to a school sending the fattest kids to represent them in a basketball tournament. I question the logic behind that - sure you give them the opportunity for... for what? Public humiliation when everyone reads their really poorly written articles? That's just cruel man, that's really cruel. It's like watching a Youtube video of a fat kid falling over whilst trying to do sports. Ouch. Hence it's time for them to rethink their stance on the issue.

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    2. Well, I agree about them needing to rethink their whole approach. The "get it all in" approach will definitely back-fire and get more people to turn away from them. I still remember how years back in 2011, when back in Singapore for a while, someone who was volunteering for the NSP told me that there is one particular writer for the Temasek Review, a really fat and (then) unemployed Malay guy who looked really mild in real life person, but seriously sounded like a totally different person with the anger and vitriol that he directed onto his writing for the Temasek Review. The issue about whatever weight issue the Malay guy was facing aside, there is--as I view it--a serious problem wherein if the person in real life turns into another person in his writing altogether (I do not assume that other personality is a 'good' one but probably rather unbridled and without reason when writing), then it means that he might not be thinking clearly when writing, and might be letting his anger rule it all. In the process, any possibility of really bad writing can occur, as we have seen from the numerous examples on the Temasek Review, which just seeks to spill venom against the government even if there is no real proof.

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    3. Well Kev, I couldn't agree more with you :)

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  3. I can empathize with the intent of TRS to publish nearly anything that is submitted to them, because I think there is value in having a ear to the ground on what people truly think. I would rather be exposed to ugliness and ill-informed opinions, and be aware that those things exist than to have them suppressed and to have those people silenced. I know of people who have been complaining about TRS and also Temasek Review when it first made its appearance, and demanding those websites to be shut down. But on the contrary I find that websites like TRS and (the now) TRE should exist because it would give the authorities and intelligentsia a reliably raw picture of heartlander sentiment - no matter how intelligible or irrational it may be.

    But it shouldn't be left at that. I think that outlets like TRS have an additional responsibility to reinvent its image and mission statement by trying to ask writers from TOC or whichever to contribute editorials in simple English and simple concepts to issue replies to especially popular articles that are specially geared towards informing their readers on whatever they are complaining about.

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    1. Hi Davin, thanks for your comment.

      I can see that the TRS has noble intentions - no doubt about that, the same way the noble and kind PE teacher tries to get the fat kids in the class involved in a game of basketball so the fat kids don't feel left out because of their inability to excel in sports. But then again, you have to think: if your personal mission is to make the fat kids feel good about being able to participate in sports, then congratulations - you've succeeded. But if your intention is to put together a team that stands a chance of beating your rival school at the national tournament, then sending a team full of fat kids will only be setting them up for a humiliating defeat along the lines of 85 - 0.

      So whilst I can see the value of trying to give these inarticulate, less-educated Singaporeans a chance to voice their views, does this sit well with TRS' bigger goal of producing an credible alternative media to rival the SPH machine? As it is, the SPH fans will read some of these badly written articles and mock the quality of the alternative media - that is the price you will pay if you do not have quality control.

      So there you go - a compromise can be struck I'm sure.

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  4. No offense but I think Hui Chun is full of shit.

    Agreed fully with you on this TRS, LIFT.

    There are rare occasions when I think Hui Chin has made decent pointers but this person seems to want to shoot you in most of your posts.

    HC are you an internet brigader? I'd have not heard of the brilliant blog you manage. I'd like to see you garner even half the readership of what LIFT has with your brilliance!

    -S

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    1. Hahahahaha thanks for your comment mate. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and HuiChun is entitled to his opinion and I welcome everyone to share their opinion here. I think it would be boring if all my readers simply agreed with everything I wrote and if they thought I was salah on any issue, they're more than welcome to come forth and say so.

      I don't wanna get sidetracked though into an ongoing debate with HuiChun as I'm far more interested in progressing my dialogue with the admin team from TRS on this issue - certainly, at least on the principle of trying to engage less educated Singaporeans in politics, we both agree fundamentally that this is a good thing, but we have different opinions on how one can achieve that. They seem to think that bombarding less educated Singaporeans with a series of shockingly badly written articles by barely literate Singaporeans can encourage them to get interested in politics whilst I believe that you can get well educated writers like myself to produce a 'simple English' version of our articles just for this audience.

      Perhaps I should translate one of my articles into simple English this weekend just to show how this exercise can work. It's not rocket science, it just involves them asking me, "hey Limpeh, we like this story you wrote last week but it's a bit cheem for most people - can you do a simple English version for us?" And I'll say, sure, gimme 48 hours to translate it for you. Done. Not as complex as some people are trying to make it out to be.

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    2. If you can accuse 回春 of shooting Limpeh in most of his posts without proper explanation, then you could also be accused of being a blind follower of Limpeh, mesmerised by his "brilliance" (in your own words) and accepting most of what he says.

      For the record, I'm anti-PAP like Limpeh, but I must say that the term "PAP internet brigader" has often been abused to unfairly discredit people with different views. I'd call someone an "internet brigader" only if s/he has been producing clearly pro-PAP content for a very long time and is blatantly illogical when discussing with readers (if s/he is willing to discuss to begin with).

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    3. Guys guys guys, let's just remember that we're all on the same side (ie. anti-PAP), we may not always agree with each other about all the issues we discuss (and that's fine) but let's not ever forget that we're on the same side. Thank you!

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    4. Thanks for the shout out, Puppet. It covers the points I would have made.

      I do wonder what answer one expects to get when asking if someone belongs to an Internet Brigade, though. How do you test credibility?

      And finally, for the record. I may have never voted for a PAP MP in my life (unless you count Tan Cheng Bock, and I do not live in Tanjong Pagar) but I am not anti-PAP. I refuse to define my life by what I am against.

      I am pro-Singapore, now and forever. And whatever or whoever I think makes Singapore as a whole better off is what or who I will support.

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    5. Well, you won't believe the number of Singaporeans who mistake my anti-PAP stance as being anti-Singapore; for crying out aloud, only 60.14% of the electorate voted for the PAP at the last election, they do not represent nearly 40% of Singaporeans. I am merely aligning myself with the 39.86% of Singaporeans who are anti-PAP but not anti-Singapore.

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    6. I note that Barack Obama's share of the popular vote was 51.1% in 2012.

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  5. I think there is a problem with their volume of articles, especially if there is a hot topic such as Anton Casey. They can publish tons of articles about Anton Casey in one day, and honestly they usually say the same thing. This Anton Casey should get the hell out of Singapore blah blah, all the same views repeated over and over again. I don't think TRS needs to publish so many articles detailing what is essentially the same view by so many writers. And it's true that their articles are usually rather badly written, in fact I started reading your blog because I read one of your articles that TRS published and I thought that it was a rather well written article for TRS.

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    1. I totally agree - there is a quality vs quantity issue here. One possible interpretation of the issue is that they are so obsessed with this 'PE teacher giving the very fat kids a chance to play" syndrome that they are publishing everything that comes their way - especially badly written articles that are clearly written by not-very educated people. What they neglect in the meantime is the user experience which deteriorates as nobody enjoys reading an endless stream of very low quality articles.

      Here's the thing that frustrates me though, the team @ TRS are actually really well educated and super smart - yet they have these lofty, noble ideals about giving a voice to the subaltern which is akin to the PE teacher giving the fat kids a chance and it is these ideals that produce the bad results. I can't tell them what to do, but at least I can hold up a mirror to show them how their ideals are not producing a course of action that match their goals - there is clearly a misalignment.

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    2. Well it may be due to the fact that they are shorthanded as they said. They may be smart and well educated but they certainly aren't superhuman!

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  6. Hi, I'm curious: the title of your post is "Capturing the voices of the Sublatern ...". What is a Sublatern? Did you mean "Subaltern"? You don't have to publish this comment if the title had a typo in it!

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    1. Yes it was a typo - thanks for pointing it out, I need an editor....

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  7. Hi Limpeh!
    I am afraid we have been busy and completely missed this post.
    I am left with nothing but a smile as I finished reading your post and also the long comments section here. As I read the start, I felt there were many points to be made but by the time I got to the end, you addressed most of the points that I had initially wanted to rebut.
    One main point, we are not only 'for' the subaltern, but we want to promote these people to continue voicing out. In this respect, while I agree that catering articles for them may be easier to consume, it does not have the same impact of enticing them to write in as well.
    As we try to promote their voices to be heard, we need to draw out the shy people who are afraid to speak up. Part of this is achieved through anonymity, and another contributing factor is the fact that they may see other people writing with poor English and therefore they feel less shy about sending in their poor English articles.
    It's like making people think "If this guy can write in, I can too!" and this ultimately contributes to our ability to gather more, real sentiments. Personally, I do not believe that this aspect could be achieved without the publication of poorly written articles (some at least). I guess part of our aim is really to be a platform -by- the people rather than just being -for- the people.
    But herein lies another conflict: I would like to have the manpower and time to correct each article that is sent in, but if I ever did have the resources to do this, we'd face another dilemma of whether we should still allow some poor English articles to leak through to continue encouraging others to write in.
    I am happy that we had this exchange and while it may not have really altered our original aim/path/goal... whatever, it has certainly allowed us to be more familiar with the dilemmas we have probably always faced but never truly defined.

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    1. Thank for picking up on this. I will compose a longer reply for you.

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    2. There you go: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/trs-vs-political-apathy-in-singapore.html

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