Monday, 30 December 2013

The myth about business degrees

My reader Ronald Seah has raised a good point about business degree which I want to talk about today. I have said this many times before - business degrees (or anything to do with business studies) are a complete waste of time and money. I couldn't be more cynical about business degrees and I have talked about this in my previous posts. Ronald does raise a good point though - let's begin with his comment:

Yeah I have also heard many people saying that business is good, business gets you a super well paying job blah blah blah, and I honestly believed it back then. I'm glad I read your blog then, as your articles told me that a business degree is rather worthless. Although I am rather curious about how this myth became so widespread. Was a business degree really worth a lot back in the 70s or 80s because not many people had the ability to go to university back then? Then the people singing praises about business degrees may simple be giving outdated advice.
Now before I deal with this myth, allow me to summarize very quickly why I feel business degrees are useless. I know I have talked about this in the past, but here is a quick summary in five points.

1. Employers don't really care what you've studied at university - rather, they care about the ranking of your university. So Oxford and Cambridge graduates get instantly put to the front of the queue regardless of their degree and if you're from a crap university languishing at the bottom of the league tables, it doesn't matter what you've studied or how well you've done. Oxford = you're smart, crap university = you're stupid. Brutal but true. Welcome to the real world.

2. Would you rather learn about business from a successful businessman who has spent his career making a lot of money, or an academic who has been hiding away from the real world in the safe environment of a university instead? It is like learning how to swim from a man who doesn't even dare get into the swimming pool. This is why I am very cynical about learning about business at a university - like if you're such a bright business guru, why aren't you out there in the business world making big bucks, why are you hiding away in academia?
3. As a young graduate, you will be recruited to perform a specific function within the company and they will train you up when you start the job. You are simply not expected to hit the ground running at an entry level job, you will be given clear instructions as to what the company expects you to do. This training is far more important than anything you would have learnt at university for a simple reason: the university cannot predict what job you will do upon graduation, so the vast majority of what they teach you will not be relevant to your working life - the curriculum will be very general. By that token, employers are looking for graduates with degrees that would be useful to certain products: so for example, a petroleum company may be looking for graduates with degrees like chemistry, environmental science, geography or geology, rather than something as general as business studies.

4. Employers are looking for certain qualities that would make a person a good employee - a fast learner, a good listener, someone who is able to follow complex instructions, someone who is a team player, good at multi-tasking and managing projects etc. These are fairly generic skills that can be learnt outside a university - a lot of it is common sense and will come with work experience (and work experience simply cannot be replicated in a university).
Are you generally sociable and good with people?

Successful businesses are usually very good at what they do - that is why they have been around for so many years and are making so much money. They are not looking for people who have studied business studies at university to come and tell them what to do based on what they've learnt at university - rather, they are looking for people who will come with the right attitude to learn how to function as part of their team. The worst kind of employees are those who under the impression that a course at university is a viable substitute for years of actual work experience.

5. Many people who are successful in the business world do not have a business degree - it is not a vital step to becoming good at business. Heck, there are so many people who are not graduates at all but have made it big in the business world. Compare this to doctors, where all successful doctors have been through many years of medical training at university. The most successful businessmen in the world have thrived on natural business acumen - that's a gift that no university can teach you. The famous tycoon Lord Alan Sugar (of The Apprentice, UK edition) did not bother with university and he is always pouring scorn on anyone who tries to impress him with their degrees in the boardroom. I encourage you to watch that programme as you can learn a lot about business from it.
I am not saying that a business degree is totally useless - let's look at a practical example. You can do a degree in business administration at NUS. Whilst you clearly know how I feel about business degrees, NUS on the other hand, is a very respectable university with a great international reputation. So in this case, as a gatekeeper, if I were to receive a job application from an NUS student with a BBA (Bachelor's degree in Business Administration), the first thing I would note is that s/he made it to NUS and that instantly proves that s/he is of a certain academic calibre. Secondly, I would also note that s/he has manged to complete a degree course at NUS, that shows a certain degree of tenacity and ability to follow instructions. Thirdly, I would then look at evidence for 'soft skills' to be demonstrated in other aspects of the applicant's life (part time work, charity/volunteer work, sports, social life). By that token, it wouldn't have matter whether the applicant studied business admin, political science, chemistry or English. If you have made it that far in the process, that's when you would be invited in for an interview where you would be subjected to a range of tests for the gatekeeper to find out what you are like in person.

Now, let's turn to Ronald's question - why is the myth of business degrees being useful so widespread in Singapore then? I have the following reasons to explain why this myth had become so widespread. Please note that I am speaking pretty much from a Singaporean perspective, but I am sure the following reasons are valid in most parts of the world.
Why does this myth persist even today?

1. Back in the old days...

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, graduates were a lot more rare and it really didn't matter what you studied at university - it was simply a big deal to go to university. So back in those days, yes a degree in business studies would get you very far because any degree in those would impress most employers. Times have changed - now there are so many universities, maybe too many universities around, producing so many graduates, that is why the way employers perceive graduates have changed with time. So a business degree was worth a lot more back in 1983 compared to today - the conditions were different then, hence there is definitely an element of "old people giving out-of-date advice".

2. People believe what they want to believe in. 

A healthy dose of optimism makes life a little rosier. Why do people believe in luck and carry good luck charms or do certain rituals which they believe will bring them luck? So if a young man has somehow allowed himself to be convinced that a business degree will set him up for life, then he is going to do his course with a healthy dose of optimism and hope. Now some people base their optimism on genuine evidence, others base it on superstition and religion - but at the end of the day, it often has the same effect on the person. The fact is many people do succeed in the business world without a business degree (and often without any kind of degree) - so having a business degree isn't going to hold you back per se, so you can succeed in the business world with a business degree but whether or not your success is based on this degree is another matter. Let me use an analogy to illustrate this.
People believe what they want to believe in.

My friend Sue has a lucky bracelet which she wears whenever she has no confidence in herself. I think it was a gift from her grandmother when she was a child, but anyway, Sue was studying for a French oral exam and I tested her once in a while. Now she got through that exam with flying clolours and the first thing she said was, "as long as I knew I was wearing my lucky bracelet, I was going to be okay." And I was like, really? What if you forgot that bracelet that day, what difference would it have made? The bracelet couldn't possibly teach her French - to her credit, she had worked very hard to improve her ability to speak French over the weeks leading up to the exam. She deserved the credit, not her silly bracelet - it was a shame that she couldn't actually see that for herself and had to rely on that bracelet.

I know how good Sue's French is and she would have aced that exam with or without that lucky bracelet. Likewise, many graduates who did business studies at university would have gone on to have great careers in the business world whether or not they did business studies at university. Let's not imagine that a degree has some kind of magical properties (like Sue's lucky bracelet) that can open all doors for you for the rest of your life. At best, a good degree from an elite university may give you the confidence to face prospective employers in the working wold, knowing that they would be impressed. You'll be amazed how many seemingly intelligent people (like Sue) fail to give themselves the credit they deserve and give that credit away to other things - from lucky charms to business degrees.
Do you have a good luck charm that you rely on?

3. Some people believe the marketing hype

Some of these colleges offering business degrees have pretty good marketing campaigns. Really, if a university offering a business degree can't come up with a decent marketing campaign, then they really don't deserve to run that course. Don't forget, these universities are not just there for the noble purpose of education - they are also profit making businesses themselves and these courses are often very expensive. Let's take a crap university, let's go for the very bottom of the league table in the UK: East London University is ranked 124 out of 124 in the current UK universities league table and they do have a business management (BA) course: that course would cost you £9,900 (about S$19,800) a year - and yes, they do make a profit from their students.

So what would East London University say to prospective students, to persuade them to commit to a three year undergraduate course with them? Do you think they will dwell on the fact that they are at the bottom of the league table and tend to be the last resort of the students who were rejected by better universities? No, they would focus on the most positive aspects of their course to try to portray a very respectable image to prospective students. That's what marketing is all about - you may not have a great product, but you focus on the most attractive merits of what you have to offer. It is very reassuring message for parents to here - that their child is doing a great course that will lead to fantastic career prospects, so many parents and students choose to believe the marketing hype.
Do you believe the marketing hype you encounter on a daily basis?

Besides, it is easy to promise all kinds of wonderful things when it comes to marketing a degree. You won't really know the true usefulness of your degree until after you graduate and try to find a job. If you are really unemployed without a job for 12 months and try to sue the university, the university can simply turn around and say, "at no point did we promise you anything about your job prospects - no contract has been broken and no judge in the land will rule against the university. You have to bear some responsibility for your inability to find gainful employment upon your graduation." Besides, imagine being the loser who becomes so desperate he has to sue his university - that's the kinda thing that people would circulate on social media as it is too funny not to share. Thus in reality, the university has actually very little to lose in over-promising the kind of career prospects for their graduates.

4. People don't know how to make the connection between academia and the working world.

Oh this is a very Singaporean problem. Here's the situation: many people realize that working life is going to be radically different from student life - yet they don't quite know how to make the transition from being a student to being a working professional and they mistake a business degree as a viable replacement for work experience. That is actually a fairly common mistake made by many students, let's take management for example. Can you learn about management in a university? That is an aspect of business that many universities do try to teach: they can give you case studies, they can teach you theories and even try to put students in role-playing situation to simulate situations where students have to exercise skills like mediation, finding a compromise, getting the others in a group to listen to them etc - but can all this really be a suitable substitute for real life work experience?
Working life is very different from student life.

I have blogged a lot about skiing - it is one of my passions and I love skiing! I can sit you down in a classroom and describe everything from the skiing attire you need to how to get on and off different kinds of ski lifts to how to tackle icy pistes to how to ski when the visibility is very poor - but if you and I never get out of that classroom and to a ski resort where we can actually get on the snow and start skiing, can I ever teach you how to ski in a classroom?

No. I can give you a very clear idea about what is required to ski confidently and what my experiences are, but for you to actually do that, you need to get out there and do it yourself. Trying to learn about management in the classroom is like learning how to ski in a classroom, or learning how to swim without getting into the swimming pool, or learning how to play a guitar without actually even picking up the guitar.
I absolutely love skiing.

There isn't a one size fits all solution to management for example - it has to be learnt organically on the job, learning how each person ticks and how you can get them to listen to you, how you can get them to do what you want them to do. Some people make much better managers than others - they naturally have charisma, they are good listeners, they are persuasive and know how to convince others, they are good with people, they know how to calm a volatile situation down through mediation. These are skills that we pick up from a very young age - if a child is brought up in a social environment, where s/he has many siblings and friends, then those are skills that the child will naturally learn as a child.

However, if a poor kid is an only-child who spent most of his/her childhood watching TV or playing computer games, then s/he would have missed out on that vital aspect of development and no university in the world can plug that gap with a module in management. This is already something I have talked about in my previous post where Singaporeans have these unrealistic expectations of a university to undo the damage of neglectful parenting, when really, we're dealing with a period of development that goes way back to the time a child is as young as 18 months old.
Parents can start teaching children about management from a very young age.

5. Pride gets in the way of honesty.

How many people would actually have the balls to say, "I went to a crap university, I wasted my time and money on the wrong degree and I am a really struggling now because of those bad decisions." Well, they might just about admit that to very close friends I suppose, but to do so publicly would be embarrassing really. We all want to look good to the world, nobody wants the rest of the world to look at them and think, "hahaha, what a pathetic loser."

There must be generations of business studies graduates who are disappointed with their degrees and they would either keep quiet about it or lie about it. I know I have told this story before and I will tell it again. Years ago, my sister went to JC with the daughter of one of my mother's colleagues Mrs Tan. Now Mrs Tan would boast about her daughter doing so well at school, how she was trying to decide what scholarship to apply and my sister actually told us, "please lah, her daughter is nothing special, she is not scholarship material. No way. Not by a long shot."
Why did Mrs Tan lie about her daughter?

Sure enough, when they received their A level results, my sister earned herself a place at NUS easily but Mrs Tan's daughter did so badly that every single department at NUS rejected her. What did Mrs Tan do when all her colleagues asked her, "hey how did your daughter do? Which university is she going to?" She lied. She claimed that her daughter loved all things Australian and had always wanted to study at an Australian university - so she was sending her daughter to Australia for university. She then claimed that Murdoch University was one of the best in Australia and that's where her daughter was going. May I remind you that this was back in 1990, way before one could whip out one's smart phone on the spot and Google "Australian Universities Ranking League Tables".

For those of you not acquainted with the Aussie universities ranking system, allow me to explain. There are about 30 universities in Australia although most people don't even take those at the very bottom of the league table seriously, hence some are left out of the rankings. The top four in Australia are ANU, Sydney, Melbourne and Queensland. There are then a bunch of other universities that populate the top 15 which are considered decent because they are at least in the top 50% of Australian universities. Any university outside the top 50% does not attract the best talent - let's face it, why would you apply for a crap university when your grades can get you into Melbourne or ANU? It's not rocket science. Murdoch is usually somewhere in the bottom quarter of most ranking systems (ie. it is not even in the top 75% of Australian universities). It is simply not a good university by any stretch of the imagination.
Murdoch is a pretty crap university. 

Mrs Tan's daughter did so badly in her A levels that she had to settle for Murdoch (well, the alternative was to retake her A levels - but she was not going to do that). So instead of admitting the truth, Mrs Tan told everyone what a wonderful university Murdoch was and how her daughter had made a great choice in choosing to study at Murdoch. Of course, those of us who knew better were not convinced - but we got the feeling Mrs Tan was trying to convince herself rather than others. What was the alternative? Admit that her daughter had disappointed her and that she was very angry with her daughter for doing so badly? Oh you know Chinese parents, that would tantamount to 'losing face' and Mrs Tan would rather tell a very unconvincing lie than to 'lose face' in front of her friends and colleagues.

Interestingly enough, I just tried this: I went to google and entered the words, "my degree is useless". Well, my article "my degree is irrelevant and useless" (well, I guess it was easy for me to admit it as I did get a degree from a very respectable British university) actually comes up as number two in my google search! There are not many people who would gladly admit to the fact that their degrees are useless - the other top search results mostly involve either journalists talking about the issue or discussion boards/forums where people are talking about the issue (mostly anonymously). It is a subject that concerns people but few are willing to talk about it honestly.
Would you admit that your degree is useless publicly? 

Hence in this context, you're never going to her people telling you that doing a degree in business studies was a mistake - oh no. You're only going to hear positive messages about doing a business degree - hence this cycle serves to dupe more people into doing a business degree and those who are duped go on perpetuating this myth: that is why this myth still exists today and will continue to persist for a long time to come.

So there you go, that's it from me on this issue. I hope I have done the topic justice - if you have any further questions on the topic, please feel free to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for reading, as always.


21 comments:

  1. Hi Limpeh, thanks for answering my questions! A good read as always.

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    1. Thanks for your comment Ronald - I hope I've done the topic justice.

      You know, I'd love to put a bunch of business studies graduates in direct competition with a group of non-graduates who have left school at 16 to work and get them to compete in a "The Apprentice" style business competition programme and I'll gladly bet money on the graduates losing because the non-graduates who have left school early have instead done loads of work experience in the meantime and that's far more valuable.

      I guess in a place like Singapore, there's this snobbery working against non-graduates.

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    2. Yeah I think watching that competition would be awesome. I think that last time when everybody lived in the kampong, good, well-paying jobs were only accessible to a small minority who had the privilege of receiving a good education, which was why many parents are now pushing their children to get degrees in university, because the fact that a university degree basically guaranteed a great career in their time was true. Maybe the next generation of Singaporean parents will realise that not having a degree means that it is the end of the world, and adjust their parenting techniques accordingly.

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    3. That's right, don't forget - back in those days (like we're talking the 1950s here), those who could afford to send their children to university were already pretty rich anyway, so they already had the benefit of all kinds of advantages the other ordinary working class folk didn't have. What we have seen in the last few decades (to the credit of the government) is a huge rise in living standards, so many more parents are now able to afford hire education for their children.

      But if everyone is going to university, then you have different kinds of graduates - from your Oxbridge graduates on one end to your chapalang university graduates on the opposite end.

      As for what will happen in the next generation - who knows? It's easy for me to say "oh you don't need a degree" when I actually have a very good one (which I have never really used). I know what my stance is on the issue but would the next generation of Singaporean parents agree with me? I doubt it somehow.

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  2. hi limpeh, I think you have made an excellent choice by leaving singapore for the uk. I am thinking of working in uk as well but job market outlook in uk doesn't seem to be rosy. I have a mba from University of Nottingham (not top 10 in the league), do you mind giving me a honest assessment of getting a job in uk? thanks alot mate!

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    1. Hi - as much as I'd like to help, I don't have enough information to go on: I have no idea how old you are, what your work experience has been, where your areas of expertise lie, what kind of person you are like in real life, what your strengths and weaknesses are etc. There are certainly gaps in the job market in the UK and you are making a mistake by looking at the macroeconomic forecast. You need to identify where your skills are, what kind of job(s) you can perform very well and if there are gaps in the UK labour market for a man of your skills & talent.

      So unless you wanna give me a LOT more information, I cannot give you any kind of assessment because this has to be treated on a case-by-case basis. Your situation is unique and we have to look very specifically at your situation rather than talk about what is happening in the UK economy very generally.

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  3. Hi Limpeh,I have particularly enjoyed reading this entry.I dropped out of poly at 16 (with dad's support) and my mom was convinced I had ruined my future,besides embarassing her of course.I went to do a bunch of part time work in F&B and retail afterwards,and got an opportunity to work in the oil and gas sector when I was 23.Ok I admit it was hell at first (living in a container block in a shipyard sharing toilets with 30 guys and you're the only girl onboard!) but I wouldn't trade that experience ever. I can't tell you how many uni grads I've interviewed over the years who felt they were qualified for the job on offer simply based on the fact they have a degree (never mind that it was not some top tier university).Some even came in for their interviews with a self entitled mentality.Btw,I live in London sometimes,and it would be interesting to have a drink with you!

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  4. Hi Limpeh, good article as usual.

    After reading your article, I decided to want to study Chemical Engineering instead of Business Administration
    in any of the local universities. However, from what I had read in the local forums (mainly sgsalary), the users
    there shared their experiences and regrets on studying engineering. It is due to the relative low increment of pay in
    engineering jobs. Also, the transition from engineer to finance industry is extremly diffcult as one does not have
    the degree related to the finance industry. The point mentioned by them contradicts what you had mentioned in
    your article. What are your thoughts? Between the two courses, which should I study?

    Thank you for taking the time to read this reply. I really appreciate your advices as you are the only guy that I turn
    to for proper career advice.

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    1. I would take those forums with a pinch of salt - you really don't know whose advice you're taking. A lot of the people there are simply justifying their own choices rather than offering independent advice - it's what I call the hawker centre attitude, justifying your choice because you wanna convince yourself that you've made the right choice. Imagine if someone had been trying to decide between laksa and chicken rice for ages then he finally chooses laksa - then you come along and ask him, "what's better - chicken rice or laksa?" He's going to tell you "chicken rice is better" because he chose chicken rice. Now is chicken rice better than laksa just because he chose it? Or is it better for you?

      At the end of the day, you have to decide what is right for you - you've talked about pay in engineering jobs, you've talked about transitions mid-career... yet you've not talked about what you really want to do.

      If you have zero interest in chemical engineering, then there's no point in going down that path. But if you do have some interest in it, then how far/fast you progress in the world of chemical engineering is up to you. There are plenty of people who are stuck in the slow lane in financial services and earn relatively little. Heck, the same can be said about any industry really. There's no guarantee that any individual can progress at a given rate in any job. So much depends on the individual.

      I recently worked with a woman who gave up a career in chemical engineering to work for Nike and now holds a senior position in Nike in Dubai; her passion is for sports and fitness and she confessed, "I don't know what I was thinking studying engineering." I think it may be good for you to pause for a moment and think about exactly what you wanna do with your life and then base your decision on that.

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    2. To be honest, I do not know what I want to do with my life. I have looked at each and every courses and crossed out what is impossible and uninteresting to me, which leaves with me the Faculty of Engineering (something new to me). I am just afraid that if a career in engineering does not provide sufficient remuneration, I might have to switch to finance and at then, I do not want regret not taking up a finance degree (Business Administration) initially instead. Because it seems that in order to enter the finance industry in Singapore, a degree related to finance is necessary. (from what I had read in the local forums)

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    3. Noah, there are some things I can't help you with - you have to figure out for yourself exactly what you wanna do with you life. And if you don't know yet, don't worry. It took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do with my life and I am keeping an open mind and allowing myself the freedom to change my mind at any point.

      What disappoints me is the way you have analyzed it - if you are genuinely interested in engineering, then by all means pursue it and be a bloody good engineer - that's how you will earn a lot of money. There is zero guarantee that if you do pursue finance that you will be rich.

      I am repeating myself - I have said this to you already in a previous post but you refuse to listen to logic. Instead, some random strangers on some forum on told you something and you've chosen to believe them rather than me - which begs the question, why do you even bother coming back here?

      I shall repeat it once more in very simple English:

      1. A good engineer earns a lot of money, a crap engineer earns much less. How much you earn as an engineer depends on what kind of engineer you are - so it is utter total fucking idiotic stupid bullshit crap you're spouting (yes I am pissed off at how you can believe such blatantly stupid bullshit) when you claim that finance pays more than engineering - it simply is not so simple for crying out aloud. You think the world is so simple, grow up for crying out aloud.

      2. Why is your motivation just remuneration rather than doing something you enjoy and like? Pursue money rather than your true passions and mark my words, you will live to regret it when you get stuck in a job you fucking hate and you wake up every morning hating yourself for having chosen that path. You will look at friends who have pursued something they enjoy and are passionate about and you will envy them and be so jealous. Do you wanna fuck up your life like that?

      3. There are many routes to get into finance - but that's been dealt with in a previous post already: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/q-getting-job-in-finance.html

      4. You seem to have zero interest in finance, nor do you show any aptitude for finance, yet you seem to want to go for it just because of the potential to earn money? Sounds like a recipe for disaster for you to fuck up your life big time. There are so many ways to make money and be successful - why are you so fixated with finance?

      You need to do your homework and figure out what you wanna do rather than go to these bullshit forums and speak to these random strangers.

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    4. Thanks for the advice Limpeh. Well, I guess I'm just afraid that at the end of the day, there's nothing that I have a passion for and the next concern would be money. I come from a low income family, so the last thing I want is to have a job that I don't have passion in and also earning low income. You are right about my absurd analysis, all these uncertainties have clouded my ability to think logically, thank you once again for enlightening me.

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    5. Noah, I'm sorry if my last post sounded harsh but I must admit that you do frustrate the hell out of me at times. How can you not have a passion for anything? Surely there must be something you enjoy or at least like enough to want to make a career out of. I've seen so many people end up with jobs they absolutely hate but they keep doing because they have to pay the bills, because they have responsibilities like their parents or children, people depending on them and there's nothing noble about that kind of situation.

      There's a Chinese saying: 三百六十行,行行出状元 - that means “no matter which job you do, you can achieve greatness.”

      The flipside of that is that if you are stuck in a profession that you have little aptitude for, that just is not right for you - then you will not achieve greatness.

      You know what pisses me off? You're taking the advice of random strangers from these stupid forums and listening to what they have to say, listening to what choices they have made when really, the one person you need to listen to is yourself! You need to listen to what your heart desires, consider what your brain is capable of, what your character is suited for, what kind of role your personality would perform well in - it should be all about YOU YOU YOU - what the fuck are you doing reading all these forums for whilst ignoring the person who is most important in the equation, YOURSELF?

      Being from a low income family is no excuse for making these irrational mistakes and absurd analysis - aiyoh.

      Stay the fuck away from those fucking stupid forums and spend some time listening to yourself. Stop listening to others and start talking to yourself and asking yourself what you wanna do with your life.

      If it helps, write it out. Write down on paper what you have enjoyed, what you think you will be good at, what your strengths are, what kind of role you would perform well in, what your weaknesses are, what your strengths are, what you would like to experience etc. Then once you have that, you can read it through and base your decision on what you have learnt about yourself.

      I can't stress how important this process is. Avoid those fucking stupid forums. Listen to your heart & your mind for fuck's sake.

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  5. Hello Limpeh,
    Thanks for ur interesting and comprehensive post telling us the realities of the business degree. Like a lot of readers who chance on this post, I haven't found my interest and passion in life yet, so I am considering a business degree.

    My current situation is that i am quite neutral to a lot of subjects. The only areas that interest me a little more are subjects like psychology which without further studies also become general degrees(I don't intend to become a psychologist) like business. I have one aim in university which is to improve my communication, creativity and analytical skills.

    From what i know, the style of teaching in a business degree often forces u to have a lot more presentations and participation in class ( for most schools). In this case, do you think a business degree will be a rational choice than any other general degree if i don't intend to pursue a technical degree?

    Ur article highlights a lot on the negative aspects of a business degree,and i agree to the points above. Could u share with us whether there is any positive takeaways we can get from a business degree that is not commonly known to the public?

    Also, what is ur opinion of the uni of sheffield vs uni of exeter vs australian uni such as monash university? I am having trouble deciding which school to go to. The australian uni has a lot of focus on encouraging students to ask questions in class and teaches at a pace i may be more comfortable with, while the uk uni comes with a direct honours . I was originally from a psychology course in nus, but thinking of transferring out to a business degree overseas.
    thanks !:):)

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    1. PART 1

      A few points for you Mapple,

      1. Any degree which requires you to study, understand and demonstrate your understanding of an academic subject will improve your ability to deal with challenges in the working world. Employers look for degrees because we want to see that you are capable of learning and mastering a new subject, because there will be SO MUCH for you to learn when you start any job.

      2. You are so wrong about 'communication' skills - oh man, sorry, that's such a Singaporean misconception. Your communication skills are established from the time you are about 2 or 3 years old, when you are an infant and you start to communicate with people around you. That's when you learn how to communicate and all throughout your childhood, if you are nurtured in a conducive environment where you are listened to and encouraged to speak up - that's where you pick up the necessary skills to communicate (a good command of the language you use is vital too, but clearly your English is good). But this process started years ago when you were 2 years old and either you are okay now because you've had a decent childhood, or you're f#cked because you're have a f#cked up childhood - but either way, university is NOT going to change the situation when it comes to your communication skills for crying out aloud! This is such a hideous misconception that somehow children do not communicate or have any communication skills - rather, this is one of the most important facets of 'soft skills' that children develop. So my point is, if you're already 18+, it's TOO LATE to try to change much as you're already an adult and this aspect of your soft skills is already developed in your childhood. I just hope for your sake you had a conducive environment as a child rather than one of those awful Singaporean families where children are expected to shut up and just study.

      2. Again, creativity: for fuck's sake (yup, Limpeh is going to start swearing get used to it), same principle as communication skills. We can't teach you how to be creative for fuck's sake. It is something that comes from inside, to be able to find inspiration in life and create something beautiful, useful and unique. It's like talent, no university course can give it to you - they can only teach you how to express what you already got in a constructive manner so it can be applied to your relevant field. But I stress: you cannot express something you haven't got in the first place. It's like I can teach you how to put together a piece of pop music, but if you haven't got the inspiration for a song that will become as popular as Gangnam Style, then well, no university professor can give you that creativity: they only give you the process, you supply the creativity.

      I had better split this up into part 2 as it's getting v long.

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    2. 4. Analytical skills: okay, what the university course will do is to teach you a very structured way to present your understanding of the subject in a very systematic, logical and concise way (that's what word limits are for) but apart from that, again, they give you just the structure to use, the analysis that breaks down the subject and demonstrates understanding still has to come from you. I am shaking my head at this point because you are a product of the spoon feeding system in Singapore whereby you just expect the teachers to teach you everything (ref: model answers) whereas in a British university at least, well, you're expected to function like an independent adult who does all the thinking for yourself.

      5. As for presentation and participation, listen mate, no one is going to force you to do anything at university regardless of the course: it is up to you to be willing to take part and get the most out of your experience. Even in a business degree course, no one is going to say, "Mapple, could you stand up and tell the class what you think about this topic?" No way, you're an adult and if you wanna take part, you will take part and if you are happy to sit at the back of the class and shrink away, then the lecturer will just gladly focus on those who are happy to learn and participate and probably just leave you on your own. How can I put this across without being mean/rude? You're a fucking adult, so act like one. Don't expect a teacher to hold your hand as if you are a shy 7 year old at her first day at school. You're not 7 years old, you are 18+ so for fuck's sake start acting like an adult. You have to make a conscious decision to want to speak up and take part. No one is gonna hold your hand. This is the same for any degree (not just business, but really, any degree) - and if you think that a business degree tutor is going to hold your hand and coax you out of your shy shell, well I can't even begin to tell you how fucking WRONG you are.

      6. There are no positive aspects to a business degree. Don't fucking waste your time.

      7. As for the choice of unis, you have to also consider if you would be happier in the UK or Oz. Also, Sheffield & Exeter are not big cities at all, whereas Monash is in Melbourne a much bigger city. Would you be happier in a big city or small town? The pace of teaching in the UK is not so fast it will hurt you, especially if you are from Singapore - but stop thinking about what will be the easier option, but what is the better option. There are of course league tables as well for you to use to guide your choice of university, but I am still strongly advising you AGAINST a business degree.

      OK that's it for now. Sorry about all the fucking swearing but I swear your misconceptions drive me up the wall. You are sooo incredibly wrong on so many things.

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    3. Wow thanks for your prompt reply and advice, Limpeh.
      Yes I was often glued to the tv in those crucial growing up stages and fixated on studying. Being brought up in a pretty quiet household with me talking english( or maybe singlish haha) to my domestic helper usually, I did not try harder to speak up and change in my teenage years too. I even faced difficulty buying food in the public until my family decided to do away with the domestic helper haha. While there are improvements here and there after lots of practice, a common phenomenon i observe in myself is that without consciously putting the effort to talk to strangers and practise articulating my thoughts, it is so easy to revert back to the shy original self.

      Yet, I have seen many students, who go to schools like Singapore Management University which focus on seminar-style teaching, manage to break out of their shells. They are able to present themselves confidently because of the daily grinding of impromptu discussions and presentations in classes to the point they are forced to actively participate and not be passive learners. That's why I was searching for something close to that experience , whereby a business degree became the first thought to mind.

      Many of us can agree that you have a very articulate tongue and expressive personality too:). However, some of us who still don't have the ability to articulate well after 18 years old and want to improve on it knowing that it is a vital skill in the workforce, have very different perspectives towards this issue. We become desperate to change and it's not such an easy task to train in a non-conscious way. Being spoonfed all our lives, we subconsciously still have the mentality that being spoonfed is the way to go -- being forced to present on a regular basis = more likely to improve. Results of people being compelled to push their boundaries in a difficult environment seem to show. ( I don't know whether this is a good analogy but I see it similar to the post u mentioned abt the harsh NS environment that helped u grow as a person.) That being said, thanks for reminding me that I cannot be too biased with the mentality of being spoonfed and should take more responsibility in my own growth. pls correct me if i am having misconceptions again.

      I honestly do not know what else to study other than business studies at this age. Among the general degrees, other than business studies , what other degrees are worth pursuing? or do you strongly advise against general degrees too?

      Do social science degrees encourage more critical thinking than business degrees ( in terms of the assessment requirements) ?

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    4. Hi Mapple, glad the swearing didn't put you off.

      1. If you wanna break out of your shy self, then it is something you have to decide you need to do for yourself - no one: not me, not your parents, your teachers, your university or anyone else on earth can do that for you. It's called growing up, being an adult and doing your own shit I'm afraid, there's no delicate or tactful way to put it and yeah, you can have to confront that. Solve your problems or keep giving yourself excuses whilst living with the problem. However, if you go into university expecting them to solve the problems like that for you - then I am telling you, you're bloody dreaming. It's a university, not a magician who's gonna somehow fix your problems, oh no Mapple - you have to sort your own shit out. So it's really time for you to grow up. (You gave me so much bullshit stupid fucking dumbshit excuses blah blah blah about your shyness - hey, who the hell are you trying to kid? Let go of those bullshit excuses already man.)

      2. Sorry that last point was harsh, but I stand by what I say about not hiding behind excuses.

      3. As for the people you have observed 'growing up', well, let me put it to you this way: you're still expecting the university (SMU or whoever) to make the students grow up. Some people grow up sooner than others, and yes, the harsh environment of NS did force me to grow up very quickly, but I also saw a lot of guys retreat into their shells and not do any growing up during NS. In short, growing up is a conscious choice you have to make: either you decide I am gonna be an adult and take control and responsibility or you coast along expecting others to "make you grow up" - you are still falling into that trap and I don't know how to put this delicately or tactfully: you are so fucking wrong and I don't know how else to tell you to wake the fuck up.

      4. Learning to present confidently is NOT something they teach you at university. That's a range of soft skills they expect you to already have when you arrive at university (along with a decent command of English, maths etc). The reason why those SMU students seemed to get on okay is that they were faced with the stark reality of: "you have a presentation tomorrow, fuck it up and you will fail. Shyness is not an excuse, so do you want to fail or pass?" Believe you me, the tutors there are just going to tell you to grow up and stop being a big baby if you give them bullshit excuses about being shy and all that crap. They're not there to treat you like a big crying fucking stupid baby. That's why so many university students just get that kick up the ass and realize, oh fuck, time to grow up and take responsibility now cos it's a sink or swim situation. Most people choose to swim cos there's no alternative.

      5. Learning to present is not a unique set of skills - it's basically being able to talk to others and it doesn't matter whether you're talking to one person or an audience of a thousand, it is all about knowing how to talk and if you don't start opening your mouth and talk to the people around you, no one is going to force the words outta your mouth.

      6. Social science degrees depend on your interest and your ability to excel in them. I can't tell you what to study - you have to take responsibility for that choice.

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  6. Hi Limpeh,
    I have another question. What are some of the options of masters one can do after a business degree other than an MBA?
    Thanks, hope to hear from you soon :)

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    1. Hi Mapple, a sensible option would be far more product specific training. Let's say you've got your degree (any degree, I am not just talking about business degrees here ok) and you start working, you establish yourself in an industry and your career path becomes a lot more clearly defined as to what area of expertise you are focusing on: at that stage, you can do far more product-specific or area-specific training to become a better qualified specialist in your field. There are some people who go down the route of being quite general, so for example, they could become a general manager who manages a lot of people in a company and oversee the operations of a few different departments, they need a more general understanding of their field. Then there are the area/product specialists who are the experts in one particular area - they focus on one specific aspect of the product/industry and they are the complete opposite of 'general managers'.

      So you have to ask yourself, what are you: general manager (in which case, I guess MBA is okay) or product specialist expert (in which case, you don't want an MBA - you need further product specific training). Answer that question and you will know which path to take.

      Et voila, or as we say in Slovakian, nech za pechie.

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  7. This article was a delightful one LIFT if I may say so. I do agree with your points on business degrees. Some people I know just have that business acumen that many business degree holders lack.

    For instance, I have a colleague running a blogshop business on carousell. Sure, it's not a big company or even close to it but because she knew how to source for her goods which are luxury bags, she is able to make about 5-6K PROFIT per month. I think her highest education was ITE or O levels.

    As for myself, I used to work full time in an internet cafe. Nothing outstanding but it did give me an idea of how a small business is run. From cash flow to pricing strategies to even staff motivation. Alas, even when the bosses make questionable decisions, we just suck it up and follow. If our feedback isn't being listened to, nothing we can do because we're not in charge overall and he's the one paying us.

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