Monday, 9 September 2013

The Sky Vayden Lim PES E9 case

Hello again everyone! There has been a lot of talk today about the Sky Vayden Lim PES E9 case and I thought I'd just weigh in on the discussion. Now I would like to add my voice to the discussion because I have been through NS myself and now the whole issue of PES status has come up recently as I contemplate what kind of PES status my disabled nephew will get when he does enlist. Now in Sky Vayden Lim's (I shall abbreviate it to SVL) case, it was his neck injuries that have resulted in his E9 status.

There have been a lot of calls for MINDEF to re-examine his case and reclassify him as many have seen his interview and did not think that he looks so disabled that it warrants a PES E9 status. (What were they expecting, for him to turn up in a wheelchair?) Many have assumed that he was malingering without actually knowing the details of the case - let me offer my insight into his case and analyse the public's reaction to SVL.
Your PES status will determine how you spend your time during NS.

Firstly, I think it's utter bullshit for people to start weighing in and trying to ascertain what SVL's PES status should be based on what they hear or see on the internet. Good grief. If you guys really want to be doctors, then you should have enrolled in NUS medicine. And if you guys can actually diagnose someone over the internet just by looking at them, then that's a new revolution in medicine: a e-diagnosis over the internet. So really, shut the fuck up you idiots already and let MINDEF do their job. Now, SVL made the following points in his interview:

1. Sky declared his medical condition upon his medical check up for enlistment at CMPB.
2. He was referred to Alexandra Hospital for a detailed examination upon CMPB's instruction.
3. After a detailed medical check up (MRI scans, X-rays etc), the panel decided that  he was to be downgraded.
We don't have a say in our PES status as soldiers - that is left to the doctors!

That sounds pretty much like standard operating procedure - now, you can't fake a neck injury or any kind of spinal injury. If you complain that your back hurts, the doctors will examine you carefully and any kind of real injury will be revealed in a MRI scan or X-ray. You can't fake that, you can't forge an X-ray. What are these people accusing SVL of doing is just ridiculous - are they suggesting that SVL either bribed his way to his desired PES status - or did they suggest that SVL deliberately injured himself just to obtain a much lower PES status?

Any kind of corruption or bribery would have been impossible as SVL wouldn't know which doctor in Singapore would eventually reveal his case. The doctor would merely do an evaluation, write a report with his/her recommendations and then pass the case back to CMPB - at that stage, the report would then be revealed by a panel of experts who would make the final decision as to SVL's status. There are just too many people involved in this process for SVL to have been able to bribe every step of the way. As for him deliberately injuring himself to get that PES E9 status, well he would have had to do a hell of a lot of damage to that neck - again, I find that implausible. National service is only 2 years of his life whilst a badly damaged neck is something he would have to live with for the rest of his life. It's simply not worth it, when you consider just how much pain and discomfort a severe neck injury can cause you.
It's just 2 years of your life...

What shocks me is this: many of the men who accused him of malingering have been through NS themselves. So this begs the question: how can you go through NS and not know how the system works? I have been very critical of some aspects of NS in Singapore (and I have voiced that opinion on my blog in the past), but certainly the business of PES status is one aspect that I am not critical of. If anything, they have been overly strict in terms of the PES status of some soldiers in the past and this has led to accidents which have resulted in injuries and even death - such as in the recent case of Private Dominique Lee who died as a result of a severe asthma attack brought on by smoke grenades. Given Private Lee's existing asthmatic condition, he should have never been put in that situation in the first place which ultimately led to his death. His PES status was wrong - he should have been given a much lower PES grading.

Cases like that illustrate that in most cases, the SAF is likely to be unsympathetic and harsh when it comes to the assignment of one's PES status (which makes me worried for my disable nephew's sake). I have been through the system, paid my dues and served my 2 years 4 months (yes in my days it was up to 2 year 6 months) and have witnessed plenty mistakes made by those in charge. There were people who were clearly in the wrong PES status but were given all kinds of notes from the medical officers to excuse them from various duties just so that they can remain in the same vocation when really, they should have been downgraded and assigned a different vocation where they can contribute more productively without putting their health at risk.
The problem with NS is that there is just so much focus on physical training and physical strength and virtually no heed is paid to one's brains. Good grief, are we just a bunch of coolies who are there to perform manual labour? Are our brains not at all important to the SAF? Oh this is especially ironic in a country obsessed with academic excellence. So the boys are bludgeoned through a ruthless education system, only to be told to turn off their brains for two years rather than apply their already well trained brains during NS. Oh the irony. I found it so weird not having to study at all in NS after my A levels that I actually read the complete works of Shakespeare and then proceeded to study French in my spare time. (Yes I was very lucky to have had that privilege that many of my peers didn't.)

I was lucky in that I had time and space to do all that - I knew of many of my peers were so exhausted from their duties that they barely had enough time to sleep, whilst I had the time to curl up in a corner with my French books and study. The fact that I had relatively more time on my hands to study French already caused displeasure amongst my peers who didn't have that luxury. They complained, "it's not fair - why does he get to relax and read books whilst the rest of us are still working?" The reply was simple, "you cannot compare yourself to him lah - he's doing a different vocation from you." It was the simple answer to that question, but it was not a satisfactory one for them. It wasn't just jealousy - they were angry because they felt the situation was grossly unfair. This begs the question: why is everyone assuming that SVL won't be making any kind of useful contribution to the SAF just because he is PES E9? It is entirely possible that he would be placed in a clerical vocation where he may work diligently and contribute very positively - but he would be using his brains, rather than his muscles.
Yup, whilst they're in the jungle, I was on my bed reading French books...

There is actually something quite immature going on here - all these people who accused SVL of malingering are clearly jealous of the fact that he will have a much easier time in NS given his PES E9 status. SVL will be able to spend time running his business, socializing with his friends and book out every night whilst the vast majority of his peers will not have that privilege. Is this fair? Well, the system afforded SVL those privileges on the basis of his medical condition and if you are not happy with this system - then the only alternative is to remove yourself from that system: leave Singapore for good, get out, move to another country, stop being a Singaporean.

If you're still unhappy with the system, then it should be the system you should criticize, rather than SVL. Of course, SVL has made himself an easy target here: he is arrogant, he isn't particularly articulate even during that interview, he has a ridiculous sounding name and his hair looks equally ridiculous. It is not an image that is endearing at all, but even if I don't like the way he looks or conducts himself, I still would not accuse him of malingering. It irks me that people are picking on SVL to focus their anger on, rather than actually criticizing the system that has delivered this result.
It is very much a knee-jerk reaction, but an immature one nonetheless. Life simply isn't fair, you win some, you lose some. NS can be a scary experience because you don't get a say in what you do - you have to hand complete control over to your superiors and they pretty much get to determine what kind of life you have there until you ORD. So there is an element of luck there - some people find NS a breeze (and have kind superiors who take good care of them) whilst others loathe every moment of it and really suffer. And luck plays a huge part in determining what your experience is. So really, when people with bad luck see someone like SVL celebrate a stroke of good luck with his PES E9 status, it is understandable that they are angry and upset - but accusing SVL of malingering is hardly the right response. You people need to think about why you are so unhappy about the whole situation.

After all, in life, you're always going to see people who have better luck than you - somebody will win the lottery despite having been a total evil bastard, somebody will get the promotion despite not being the best performing member of the team, somebody will get a scholarship despite not being particularly deserving. Well guess what? SVL may not go through what most Singaporean men went through in NS, but probably will suffer - albeit in a different way. If his neck is so injured it warrants a PES E9 status, then his neck will cause him plenty of suffering for the rest of his life, particularly when he is older. There will be many exciting and fun activities that he probably won't be able to partake in because of his neck injury - but he is not going to go on TV and beg the public to feel sorry for him. That's hardly the dignified thing to do - anyone with any kind of disability or injury would usually carry themselves with pride and hold their head up high when dealing with the public. That is his right to do so and he doesn't owe anyone an explanation - his PES status is a matter for CMPB and no one else. I suppose the reporter could have asked him more about his neck injuries  during that interview and I am sure that if she did, he would have gladly answered that question.
In any case, I do know a case of 'chao geng' in my NS days. I knew this guy... let's call him Ed (not his real name). Ed came from a rich family and NS was a huge shock to the system for him. So he decided to convince the medical officers that he was having serious psychological problems and he found out from a friend how to convince them because there was a checklist that they go through as part of the diagnosis. (Eg. seeing things that are not there, hearing things that are not there, hearing voices in one's head, inability to distinguish between real people talking to you and voices in your head, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts, exhibiting signs of self harm, is he likely to harm himself, is he likely to harm others around him, that list is long...) Armed with this checklist, he then proceeded to give the performance of his life and he got his downgrade. So yes, it was possible for him to 'fool the system' and some people like Ed do slip through the net because it is possible to feign a psychological condition - but anything to do with bones that can be picked up on an X-ray or an MRI scan? You can't fake that. If SVL wanted to chao geng his way to a lower PES status, he could have done what Ed did rather than pick something you can't fake.

Most people wouldn't do what Ed did because the risk of failure is just too great - you could get into a lot of trouble if you were to be caught malingering and if the SAF certifies you a psycho too screwed up in the head to function as a soldier, then it could affect your future career in Singapore should your prospective employers take an interest in what you did in NS. Ed was a bit reckless and over-confident, but he got away with it and as he came from a rich family, he didn't worry about having to struggle financially in the future as he was an only child who stood to inherit all his father's wealth. So he rolled the dice, took a risk and it paid off. So yeah, people like Ed do chao geng and get away with it - but Limpeh would strongly advice you against trying to do what he did.
Is the system fair? Can you cheat the system? Ed did. 

SVL's case illustrates the way many Singaporean men feel this strange mix of emotions about the NS experience: nobody actually said anything like, "poor SVL is going to miss out on the greatest experience any Singaporean man could ask for - it will teach him so much, nurture him, show him things he never knew about himself. In being PES E9, he will miss out on the best aspects of NS, which was the best time of my life." Hell no. The response was far more like, "bloody chao geng, I want him to suffer the way I suffered in NS. It's not fair, I had to put up with so much shit in NS, why did I have to suffer like that and that chao geng guy with the stupid name be spared the suffering?" Their reaction does tell you a lot about the way the majority of Singaporean men feel about their NS liabilities.

After all, the nature of chao geng does exist in the SAF - that is why we have that term in the first place. Most soldiers don't take it to the extremes that Ed did to get a lower PES grading, it usually attempted in small doses to siam smaller tasks. For example, if there is a long grueling road march, a soldier who wants to avoid it might stage a little accident or start showing signs of an illness a few hours before they are due to set off, eg. fall down the stair, induce a vomit (drink a lot of water then stick two fingers to the back of your throat), faint or make it look like he had a heat stroke/exhaustion attack so as to be excused from the road march. If executed in small doses and in a convincing manner, you will get away with it - it is only if you try to do this too often that you would be accused of being a malingerer.
"Who wants to go on a 20 km road march?!" 

On that note, I am so glad I have given up my pink IC and as I am no longer a Singaporean today (I hold a British passport), I have no more reservist obligations. If you have any thoughts on the issue, please leave a comment below.


64 comments:

  1. I think that part of the reaction has to do with some form of jealousy or tall poppy syndrome. Singaporeans do not like to see others in a 'better state' than them, or what they see as a better state anyway. I still remember how during NS (I also did 2 years 4 months like you during my time), I got downgraded once for a minor thing, which, while not technically a major disability, but one which means that I have to be excused from some vocations due to the inconvenience. The moment that got out to some of the other platoons nearby mine, o boy, the massive reaction one or two other guys had, as if I was a cheat and liar. When I did not actually manage to make it to my passing-out parade due to a sudden injury which I sustained owing to a jumping down from the obstacle as well as a high fever the day before, I was sitting at the side watching. One of the guys who was so antagonistic to me for no apparent reason in the other bunk was like, "You should be given an award for acting." Duhhhh!! For crying out loud, do I have to produce to him a photocopy of my medical letter as well as to show him the X-ray for approval of the doctor's letter? Seriously, these Singaporeans are just plain losers. I remember how when I was posted to another unit in a service vocation, and saw him at my unit then(I was the medic then and he the patient--irony of ironies), he tried his best to avoid me, by getting the medication and then waving me off RUDELY! Did I do anything wrong to him? NO. Did he feel sore that I got downgraded before and that I was on a medical exemption from passing-out parade then owing to a high fever? YES. It makes no sense, especially when you compare my case which is real to another bunk-mate's who was simply using medical letters from another doctor outside to constantly report into camp on Monday night instead of Sunday night.

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    1. Hi and thanks for your comment. Whilst we all experience jealousy (it is a very basic human reaction), we must know how to deal with it and react in a rational and mature manner. So if I see someone else do better than me in an exam, I can either: be inspired to work harder so I can match that person's performance, or accuse him/her of cheating in the exam.

      It must suck if you simply bury your head in the sand by assuming the worse of people instead of taking them at face value - giving them a bit of trust. You make it through life a lot easier, with less stress when you learn to trust and believe those around you.

      It reminded me of the Iranian man in the film Crash - when the Hispanic locksmith told him that his door cannot be repaired and he needed a new lock, the Iranian man just assumed that the Hispanic locksmith was out to cheat his money when he was telling the truth - the Iranian man had the store broken into as a result of ignoring the locksmith's good advice. I am sure you would remember that character if you saw that film - yeah some people are just that insecure and it is a reflection on themselves really, but when they project it onto others around them by assuming the worst of them, that will come back and haunt them, bite them in the ass eventually.

      So leave it Kev, laissez-le tomber. These people are their own worst enemies at the end of the day.

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    2. Well, I never understood why he was that antagonistic and exhibited that much animosity towards me. Then again, just like what you said, it says more about him. I guess that in a way, his animosity prepared me for the intense rivalry that people in a PhD program exhibit towards their peers(no kidding...all in the name of getting a job if not tenure...), and I survived those 4 years of the program with such experiences behind me.

      Nope, I do not hate him one bit. In fact, on looking back on this episode in my life, it does make me feel some degree of sympathy for him. Why did he see me as 'evil', and why did he single me out for hating, when I barely even talk to him? Maybe he was projecting his insecurities?

      As for the Pes E9 case, well, I think that a lot of people tend to believe that the majority of people who got downgraded in Singapore's system were downgraded via 'malingering'. Maybe it has to do with the large number of cases of people claiming mental ailments, and so on, and well, mental ailments are in a class of their own(a friend of mine back then got downgraded to Pes E for alleged suicidal tendencies, although he did not display it in front of us, but to give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps NS brought that out in him.). I remember those days when in training after the first 3 months of the NS period, the privates and other servicemen of various ranks were brought to MINDEF Medical Center for purposes of understudying the ones working there. One doctor-to-be who was in the course mused to all of us among the trainees, "MINDEF is the king of chao gengs! We should learn from people here if we want to be downgraded to the lowest possible grading without affecting our NS negatively." (No comments about that LOL...it was funny nonetheless...but offers a look into the mindset of some people...) Your remarks in the blog about the determination process for medical Pes ratings being flawed are quite astute if you ask me, because there are seriously many cases of NS-servicemen who drop dead without warning, and who were not even seemingly disabled according to the reports of their bunk-mates. A friend of mine recently told those on his Facebook page about an article on the Online Citizen about the need to reform the NS system and so on, but I am actually wondering how possible it is when the helm is run by many officers of antiquated ideas and who seem to be out of touch with reality.

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    3. Well Kev, what irks me more than anything else about this case is that people were focussing their hatred and anger on SVL when really, it is the system they were not happy with. SVL became a convenient scapegoat.

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    4. I totally agree. The problem is the system at the end of the day. Look at the inbuilt cronyism of the 'White Horse' treatment some people get, as well as the fact that the current president of Singapore's son never did any military training for his NS, but spent his days in an air-conditioned office. If he can call it 'serving the nation', why cannot other prodigies do the same thing?

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  2. Personally, i think the adolescent males in the edmw forum are probably jealous of the fact that he could set up a business at such a young age.

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    1. Yes, I totally agree.

      As one says in French, quelle bande des gamins! (What a bunch of kids!)

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  3. "Malingering" -- it's not just boys in the late-teens/early-tweens who would accuse others of it. Even teenage girls engage in it. I guess it's just human nature.

    I was always significantly underweight and borderline anaemic from childhood. In my secondary school years, I joined a uniformed group NPCC with a drill competition (i.e. marching on parade grounds). My school has a long history of winning gold for the competition, so we were driven towards it, even excused from classes to march all day (no kidding) in the months drawing up to the competition. Anyway, inevitably my health history reared its ugly head -- I would start seeing little dots in the air that grow until the persons in-front/around me were just large blobs and my ears would hear "woo-woo" sounds that kept growing louder and louder, drowning out the parade commands. At which point I would have to request to "fall-out" to rest. The thing is, I would recover very quickly once I fall-out and get to sit down. But experience [I've tried a few times] have taught me that if I request to "fall-in" again immediately after I've recovered, I would rather soon (within minutes) have to "fall-out" again. Thus, once when both myself and another squad-mate "fall-out" to rest, we chatted as we recovered. Thereafter, we were accused of skiving. I got so sick of the malingering that I decided not to explain to anyone in the squad (of about 23 teenage girls) about my health history. Only a few close friends knew of it.

    My experience has taught me to recognize that I know what I am experiencing, f*** what anyone else falsely accuses me of.

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  4. Hey limpei can i get some advice.
    currently i am pes E9L9 the lowest pes before exemption from NS. I am wondering if i should request an up pes and go through army life like the rest or my peers. Or would you advice me to instead gain knowledge on business or finance or learn french haha since i will have some free time while in ns. I didnt chao geng to get pes E9. i was a sportsman and got several injuries, i am really not sure if i can even up pes. But would of course love to make sure this 2 years will be fulfilling especially for my future.

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    1. Hi Jacob - I shall dedicate my next post to answering your question as there is a word limit in replies for these comments and I know I will exceed it. So bear with me, it is a good question and I wanna do it justice.

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    2. OK Jacob just for you: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/q-pes-e9-to-upgrade-or-not-to-upgrade.html

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    3. Hey there Limpei,

      As for your autistic Nephew, I don't know what the details are but I frankly don't think that you have much to worry about.

      I was living with undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome until I endured extensive bullying in NS which nearly drove me to suicide. Lucky for me, I saw a very good psychiatrist who identified my symptoms right away and taught me how to live with it until my ORD date. Following that, he helped me with a letter to SAF's medical board which secured me a permanent E9L9 status which meant that the SAF would never harass me for reservist for the rest of my life.

      Furthermore, I have also come to know that those who were diagnosed with autism or Asperger's Syndrome were given outright E9L9 statuses or exempted them from service... depending on the severity of the individual cases. Lucky for me, I was still able to serve as a Signals Operator.

      If you want to find that psychiatrist who helped me out, his name is Ang Yong Guan... and yes, it's that same fella who joined SDP.

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    4. Hi there Davin, thanks for your comment.

      Allow me to get your opinion on the issue since you've been through the system - may I ask you to read my most recent post on Autism here: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/fostering-autistic-child.html

      Fred and Anna talked about trying to help Joe (the autistic child) develop the right kinds of skills to cope with school and teach him how to interact with other children. I feel that they are doing the right thing - even though it is obviously very challenging. Fred mentioned that in the past, the social workers merely treated Joe like an 'endangered animal' and gave him anything he wanted to make him happy - whilst making no attempt to teach him anything to help him cope better with the big bad world.

      He said that if the social workers had it their way, Joe would end up in a padded cell and dismissed as too disabled to fit into society - whereas they're trying their best to give Joe a chance at a normal life (go to school, get a job, have friends, develop relationships etc).

      That conversation/interview left me in 2 minds about my nephew - on one hand, sure there's the instinct to protect him from NS, on the other hand, I do share Fred's desire to want him to go on to have as normal a life as possible ...

      You know what the BEST case scenario would be? That if he could serve NS like everyone else but have commanders/officers and friends who are understanding and sympathetic, thus allowing him to experience NS in a fairly safe and supportive environment, so he will grow and learn in the process.

      Too much to ask, no? Probably.

      Otherwise, what is the alternative? Tell the kid he is too disabled to fit into normal society and throw him on the scrap heap of society the way the social workers treated Joe?

      There has got to be a compromise between the two.

      As you have Asperger's Syndrome and are clearly very articulate & intelligent, I'd like your take on the issue - thank you very much!!

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    5. No problem.

      I think that the first thing you will have to ascertain is this: on what part of the spectrum is your nephew in? Also, how severe is it? On this I really am not qualified to comment or make a judgment call, and it is for this very reason I left behind the name of the doctor who helped me. I can't recommend Dr. Ang Yong Guan enough - if not for him, I would have gone through with pulling the trigger with my mouth wrapped around the muzzle of my SAR-21 during guard duty.

      Right now, I'm leading a rather normal life and this is how I found the way to pull it off. During therapy, I realized that I could mitigate my social awkwardness by taking a pro-active approach to my social failures and learn from those mistakes. I had it all mapped out inside my mind like a massive flowchart in the similar fashion of Sheldon Cooper (from Big Bang Theory) where there was this short segment on the Friendship Algorithm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0xgjUhEG3U

      For every social snafu I made which ended badly, I'd analyze what happened, try to figure out what I did wrong and then learn how to NOT do it again the next time a similar situation came up. If I could not understand what I did wrong, I'd remember that very incident, raise it with my therapist and then figure it out. By this point, I have been at it for so long that I have most of the possibilities figured out, and all of my acquaintances and professors in my university swear up and down that they couldn't tell that I have Asperger's Syndrome when I informed them about it.

      If you're asking me about a best case scenario, I can only hope that your nephew will be able to "train" himself to deceive others of being "normal" like everyone else in society. He may not be happy about not really being himself, but he may find comfort in being able to thrive in a society full of people who are completely unlike him.

      As for NS, NS is something that I am very leery about.. even for people who aren't on the autistic spectrum at all. I am always fond of saying that there are people who are made to be warriors, and others who simply will not thrive at all in an environment that even pretends to be warrior-like. People like me on the autistic spectrum are born tinkerers and thinkers. Giving us a rifle and demanding us to behave like robots is entirely antithetical to who and what we are. For the record, I completed my NS as a Signals Operator not because I wanted to, or because I was good at it (even though I was the Company's and then subsequently Unit's best shot at the rifle range), but because I was diagnosed during my 16th month of NS and I did not want to rock the boat by changing my vocation.... I just wanted to get the goddamn fucking thing over with without causing any more drama.

      In summary, no. I will not recommend NS for anyone on the autistic spectrum.

      Hope this helped.

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    6. Addendum:

      I'm clearly aware that people with Asperger's Syndrome are totally not wanted by Singaporean society at all, and my impression of the government is that the only use they can find for people like me is to pay me $2/hour to clean and repack headsets for Singapore Airlines. It's because of this attitude that I left the country to the US to seek my new life and fortune, and I really, REALlY want to come back to Singapore with a PhD in hand with the government begging me to work for them. I spent a very productive summer in London working for the International Institute for Strategic Studies, and my boss was so happy with my work that he invited me to work for them again anytime in Washington, DC, Singapore or Bahrain.

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    7. Hi Davin,

      1. My nephew as asperger's syndrome (which is the key issue affecting him, but there is an element of dyspraxia as well) and having actually gone through his homework with him, I'm relieved to say that the kid isn't stupid. He isn't particularly bright, but phew, let's just say he exceeded my expectations. I'm sorry to be this blunt, but when you interact with him, somehow he just gives me the impression that he would struggle at school - but checking his homework reassured me that he is at least passing at school and getting like 60% for his tests is already exceeding my expectations by a long way.

      And that's the problem Davin. Everyone in the family looks at him and says, he's different, he's disabled, he gets 60% at school for an exam in primary school and everyone thinks that he's climbed Mt Everest on one foot with his hands tied behind his back. You get the idea - everyone in the family is so freaking condescending to him, especially my parents. Don't get me wrong (allow me to rant please), but they are the WORST amongst us all - they genuinely think that he is a total idiot and when he manages the most basic task like correctly identify the photos of a famous person on a newspaper (it was Justin Bieber he correctly identified, duh) - they treat it like WOW THAT'S AMAZING! YOU ARE SO CLEVER! And I'm like, good grief, I can see that the problem lies more with my family's attitude rather than the kid.

      It's so bizarre, they subject him to a lot of tuition without actually knowing why they do that - it's probably because all the other kids in school have a lot of tuition so they must do the same thing. Yet their expectations of him are so incredibly low - go figure. That is so self-contradictory on so many levels.

      Here's the thing okay? I'm so glad I can talk to you because you understand what it means to be autism and you're clearly a very intelligent and articulate person. I can't talk to my nephew about it because he is too young and sorry, he may be 10 but compared to other 10 year olds, his social skills are more like a 5 or 6 year olds. His social skills are zilch and the kid has a lot of problems on that front - good grief.

      I'm frustrated as an uncle you know. I am able to think, when I was ten, I did all these things - I was topping my class, I was doing all kinds of sports, I was doing all these things independently... and he's doing none of that and my family is saying, "don't be ridiculous, he's autistic" and I'm like, yeah but that doesn't mean he can't try to do all those things... but I have to just step back and not argue with my family. I'm worried you know, cos what's going to happen by the time he's 15? Or 20? Are they going to keep him wrapped up in cotton wool for the rest of his life?

      Davin, you've obviously done well in life and I am happy for you - and I really want my nephew to do well in life too but my family are so not helping him man. I wonder if there will ever come a stage in his life when some notion of ambition or self-preservation will kick in - or if he will spend the rest of his life in this child-like state totally oblivious of the world around him? May I ask you please... Like, when you were 10, were you aware of your autism?

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    8. You see, you are aware of your Asperger's Syndrome and you're making concrete steps towards learning the social skills you need to help you fit in - I look at my nephew and he's like in a world of his own, oblivious to others around him. And OMFG, my sister's given him an iPad and he is just glued to it all the time playing games on it - zero social interaction with the outside world. I swear I wanna smash that fucking iPad sometimes as it's just so totally the WRONG thing for that kid right now. He needs to be interacting with humans, not playing stupid computer games and my parents - HA! They are such fucking idiots sometimes I swear, they are telling me that my nephew is going to grow up to be some kind of computer games genius and I have to tell them, "he's playing Angry Birds and he's not even good at it." Cue palm to forehead - now you know why I cannot live in the same time zone as my family as I'd just fight with them all the fucking time.

      You see, this is why NS is important in this context - my nephew is an only child and you have 5 adults (his parents, his aunt and my parents) who are prepared to give every cent they own to him so the kid will never ever have to work ever again. I'm like, nope, that's not the right thing for him - he's not getting a penny from me and he needs to know that he needs to stand on his own two feet and become an independent adult - loads of people with autism and Asperger's Syndrome grow up to be successful adults and he needs to be one of them. Telling him that he has no hope of a future but hey here's a trust fund for you to spend the rest of your life playing Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds - is that the kind of life you want for him? No sir, I don't want that for him. I think he deserves better than that.

      So I want him to have that... threat of having to do NS hanging around his neck so that the family will do something about trying to get him to learn better social skills - so he has the chance of ever having a normal social life. His social skills will determine the quality of life he will have in the future - otherwise, he's going to grow up to be a fat, lonely adult who spends his days playing computer games. He's already a fat, lonely child who spends any free moment playing computer games - and that's so totally opposite of what I was when I was his age. I was physically fit, I had many friends and I played with other children, not computers.

      Let's leave the debate of how shit NS is for now (I hated NS, I hate the whole fucking system and I hate the fucking PAP), but in the case of my family, can you see why I wouldn't give my sister the name of Dr Ang (well, until the last minute anyway) because I want them to think, "just in case we can't get him exempted, we must teach him how to cope with NS life, so he won't get bullied like xiao during NS". Why? Because learning those social skills is not simply to avoid getting bullied in NS - it is probably the greatest, most important thing that this child needs to do for a better quality of life in the future.

      And my family ... they just don't fucking get it.

      After all, I'm just the uncle. I'm not his parent. I don't get a say, do I?

      Cue palm to forehead.

      Thanks for listening dude. I have a feeling you're going to understand me in a way others won't.

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    9. To be fair to my parents, I know they're trying their very best to help their autistic grandson - but sometimes, they are so salah to the point where I just want to intervene and say, "stop it, you're not helping him at all". The good intention is there, but there are times when really they have no freaking clue that they're not helping him at all and actually damaging him. Don't get me started - all the best intentions and love in the world cannot change the fact that they can be so freaking salah at times. And my parents are so freaking stubborn as well - they think they know best when they are actually clueless at the best of times.

      That's when I say, okay fine, I am fucking off back to London and I hope that when I return in a year or 2, the kid's going to show vast improvements... I've said that a couple of times already and each time I'm more and more disappointed. Cos when he was younger, the autism wasn't that obvious but as he gets older and older - it's like seeing a young child trapped in the body of a much older, bigger, fatter child... good grief.

      I know when I return to Singapore in a year or two, that's another kettle of fish... can of worms... waiting for me. That's why when I think of it sometimes, I get so frustrated I just don't wanna get involved.

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  5. I just typed a massive wall of text but Google Chrome decided to be a bitch and eat everything up, so I'll cut to the chase:

    On the video games thing, please don't judge it too harshly. I frankly would not have come this far intellectually and socially if not for gaming. My parents shrewedly gave me a really rubbish system when I was 7 and gave me no other guidance, so I was left to my own devices and researched my heart out on what I needed to do/buy in order to run games on my PC. It took me a couple months before I approached my parents and asked for a 3D accelerated card. They immediately consented. Also, I started to become ludicrously good at some shooters, and I had clans who showed interest in recruiting me. One thing led to another and I spent my teen years growing up with my own band of brothers who accepted and took me for who I am and my merits as a gamer, and not because I was "cool enough". Today, I am this senior figure who comes back once a year every Christmas to hang out with the young kids and give them someone to look up to (most of them are Poly/ITE kid types and I'm constantly telling them that if any one of them drops out of school just so that they could play more games, I'd personally fly back just so that I'd kick their ass so hard they'd need to shit out of their navels). So yeah, I'm an elder role model for teens. How many other socially-awkward people with Asperger's Syndrome can lay claim to that?

    As for Dr. Ang, I think you really need to recommend him to your relatives ASAP. I can probably assume and surmise that your relatives are the Chinese-speaking cheena type who read Lianhe Zaobao and watch Channel 8 all the time. And I think you'll find an ally in Dr. Ang: he appears in Chinese media all the time and he has this common touch that enables him to educate the low-educated folks about psychiatric issues. They will trust and most likely adhere to his directions because he is an extremely popular and trusted personality in Chinese media.

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    1. Hi again Davin thanks for indulging me.

      Erm, the gaming thing is not going to happen with my nephew. His iPad and other mobile devices are not internet enabled - the family had to disable the internet connection after he was looking at inappropriate content and so he's reduced to really mundane games which puts him in this zombie like state where his eyes just have this glazed look and if no adult says, "come here, do this etc" he would sit there for hours playing.

      If I'm unforgiving and mean about this, then I will take the risk of being wrong - but is this what he needs right now? No, he needs to learn more social skills - he needs to be in a social environment, interacting with his peers.

      Then my sister would tell me, "eh, but he kena bully at school leh, very poor thing one, so better let him sit alone at home playing computer games where he is happy doing so". And I'm like yeah, now you have a lonely fat kid who has no friends - he's going go grow up to be a lonely fat adult who has no friends if we don't break the pattern. Never mind romance or marriage - he is not even going to have normal friends at this rate.

      This is when I have to take a step back and take a deep breath as I get soooo fed up with my family. It's what Fred and Anna said - do you wanna make the child happy today or do you want to set him up to be happy in 20 years' time?

      As for Dr Ang, I know he's good - I've done my research (he's SDP - yay!!) but right now, I'm trying so hard to break the pattern of behaviour that's going to turn my nephew from a fat lonely kid into a fat lonely adult. Would Dr Ang help? Or would my family (sorry, I know my family only too well) see this as, "great, Dr Ang will get boy-boy out of NS, so he doesn't have to learn social skills, because Dr Ang will write a letter that will tell MINDEF that boy-boy is too stupid, bodoh and useless to serve NS, so he can stay exactly like he is."

      And I'm like NOOOOO he can achieve SO MUCH, like you Davin, I want him to achieve so much - but that's when my family and I are different. Call me tough, cruel, mean, nasty etc, but I believe in tough love if you want the child to improve and succeed in the long run. But that would mean some tough love in the process.

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    2. Let me give you an example yeah - this relates directly to social skills and behaviour. We were eating in a public place (a restaurant) when my nephew started playing with his food - he started doing this thing when he was blowing bubbles into his soup, slurping loudly and I didn't even know what he found so interesting about playing with his soup but he was more interested in passing the soup from his mouth back and forth to the bowl than actually drinking it and he was making a lot of gross noises in the process - the people from the next table glared at us in a way that was like, "please do something, that child is disturbing us." I said sorry to them and told my nephew to eat properly.

      Then WOAH, I am public enemy number one - my whole family turns on me. "How can you do that? Don't you realize he is autistic? He will be upset if you speak to him like that?!" And I'm like, whaaat? Speak to him like what? I wasn't scolding him - I was somewhat stern perhaps, but that's where my family is so salah okay? They think it is more important to spare him the scolding than to teach him how to eat properly in public - in fact, with that attitude in mind, he has grown up with no social skills because nobody has bothered to teach him any and I believe he CAN learn if his family made more of an effort to say, "boy-boy, you can't do this". Give the kid boundaries for crying out aloud, but no...

      So finally, my mother told him very gently, "eat properly hor, if you eat properly, I will buy you (insert name of expensive toy)" And then I'm like, no, every child should learn to eat properly because it is what society requires of us to fit in - not because your misguided grandma wants to buy you an expensive toy for actually doing the bare minimum to not be a nuisance in a public place.

      Groan. Now you know why I get fed up with my parents over this. They mean well. But they are so salah.

      OK OK OK To be fair, only one person is giving him boundaries - and that's his father. And I'm like, thankfully one adult in his life sees sense and is sensible - and my parents HATE him because they think that their son-in-law is really mean to their precious grandson because he sets boundaries for him... and I always take the side of my bro-in-law because I think okay, he's not perfect but he often makes sense (and our smaller age gap means that we can see eye to eye more often than not). So my parents argue with my bro-in-law all the time over this kind of crap... it is unreal and in 99.9% of the cases it is because it is my parents who completely don't understand what autism is - I'm sorry, but my parents aren't particularly well-educated or well-informed in the first place, they are (as you said) v cheena Mandarin-Hokkien speaking and there's no shortage of love and good intention on their part, but they are salah to the point of ...

      Sorry, pouring my heart out to you again. So many years of just putting up with my parents. I don't want to argue with them but they are sometimes damaging the child in the process.

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    3. You know, when I first saw Dr. Ang I saw him as an easy way out of NS and my parents also saw it the same way. But here's the thing you need to know about the fella: he's there to help people and not just there for the money. After my 2nd/3rd consultation, my Mom got called into his office for like an hour for no extra charge, where he took his time to educate her on how to best help me thrive in society. He also convinced me that I had to take the hard way out if I wanted to man up and go my own way. NS didn't make me man up - it reduced me into a suicidal mess that made me hate my own home country for abusing the shit out of me.

      As for social skills, I'm all for it that you should (at least initially) force him to socialize. But also do be aware that like all introverts, people with Asperger's find it mentally and physically exhausting to be around people and need alone time to "recharge".

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    4. And oh, Dr. Ang tried to recruit me into SDP. :P

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    5. Hi Davin, your mother was willing to be taught by Dr Ang, I am not sure my parents (or my sister and my bro-in-law) are as willing to learn. In my parents' case, there is a mix of denial (don't get me started) and ignorance (don't get me started either) and they have told me stuff like, "oh we went to see this specialist who told us this ... but we don't trust him or believe him". My sister and bro-in-law - same thing, different generation: but they both share that sense of denial.

      They confuse love with denial - it clouds their judgment. They refuse to see what is before them... they see what they want to see.

      So I am not even sure how they would react to Dr Ang... they may simply claim that my nephew doesn't need Dr Ang - but I can't predict how they will react to him, but be warned that my parents are probably nothing like yours.

      Let me assure you that I hated NS like you and it made me determined to leave Singapore and I am proud to be a British citizen today. But it's not that I approve of NS per se, I do see the benefit of using the 'threat' of NS to make my family wake the fuck up and deal with the challenges of his social skills.

      My nephew goes through phases... I don't think you can easily slot him into the extrovert/introvert divide. There are times when he is screaming so loudly his father has to physically restrain him to calm him down - then there is the glazed look when he is playing computer games. Maybe you were a more classic Asperger's introvert, but I'm not sure i'd even use the word 'introvert' to describe my nephew.

      There's another story that's just way too long to tell (it's gone midnight and I'm so tired) - but it suffices to say that he did something in a public place once that involved him disturbing/provoking a member of public in a way which shocked everyone (and we all apologized profusely)... That was NOT the kind of thing that an introvert would do as an introvert would NEVER approach a stranger like that.

      Sorry, but my nephew is a unique individual and his case is so complex that I have to politely request that you do not compare yourself to him. I make that mistake and I have to stop myself from doing so.

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    6. Yeah, you're right. To clarify, my parents aren't the kind of Orang Cheena often depicted on Channel 8 mainstream media. They're upper-middle class Christian types who speak fluent English as much as they do in Mandarin and various dialects.

      For you to tell me about your Orang Cheena relatives just makes me lose more hope for Singapore - they're nearly the same as the rabid Christian rednecks all over this country (USA) that are never taken seriously individually.... but they vote. :/

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  6. Addendum: https://www.facebook.com/bfnut

    These were the folks I grew up with. I'm not pictured in their most recent PR material because I wasn't in-country at the time.

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  7. Hi Limpeh Foreign Talent do you know anything about being Pes F? Im currently recovering from an opt in army, originally pes A being temp C now, and have been hearing rumors of officers wanting to discharge me as a result. Is it really true you become a second class citizen because of Pes F? I did not choose to have it, but if i were to be forced a pes F what can i do? I dont know who to look for help...

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    1. Hi Dien, thanks for your comment. Now where on earth did anyone tell you that Pes F = 2nd class citizen? What complete and utter bullshit and nonsense!! Whoever gave you that wrong information should be slapped in the face. I get so angry when young people like you are misled and given info that is plain WRONG. Geez.

      First things first:your PES status is determined by a medical board who will decide it based on your medical condition. You don't get a say in it because you're not a trained medical professional, you're not a doctor. You need to listen to the doctors because they know what they're talking about and you don't. PES F is reserved for very serious cases and it is not dished out willy-nilly to anyone who has a minor complaint - I've seen loads of guys with quite serious impairments going through NS as PES C2 or PES E, so if they are talking about PES F in your case, then your situation is probably quite serious. I say, take advantage of the fact that you are receiving free medical treatment in the SAF and focus on your health, rather than your PES status. Since you do not get a say in your PES status, worrying about the outcome of it won't make the slightest difference, okay?

      As for second class citizen - man, do you even know what that phrase means? It means you're denied the rights that ordinary citizens will have: such as the right to vote, the right to medical care, the right to justice if you are ever arrested, the right to be protected by the police, the right to education, the right to find a job etc.

      If you are discharged, you will be free from all NS obligations, you will be able to go on with further studies or get a job and most of all you will NOT need to do any reservist activities. Within the context of the job market in Singapore, that puts you way ahead of other Singaporean males, you are at a HUGE advantage.

      If I had to hire a Singaporean male in Singapore, I would risk losing him to reservist activities, even when we are shorthanded and have important activities. If I hired a foreigner or a woman, then I could eliminate that risk. You would be able to put yourself on level footing with foreigners/Singaporean women once you are free of NS obligations.

      And just to play devil's advocate here: yes there may be some Singaporean bosses who may look at your NS records to see what you've done in your time at NS as a character reference of sorts, simply because your time in NS is the only time a Singaporean young man has spent any time away from the student environment. If I am hiring, I don't need a student: I need a man who is prepared to WORK and has proven that he has WORKED before and NS is as close to that as it comes if you're fresh out of uni/poly and have never worked a proper job before. Having completed NS tells me, okay, this guy knows what it means to follow orders/instructions and would know how to function in a work environment.

      You can make up for that by getting a part time job when you are in further education (I presume you'll be studying a bit more after NS?) just to show that hey, I have been in a work environment, I am grown up, I am mature, I can work in a team, I can take instructions, I am not just a student boy, I am an adult.

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    2. Some numbers for you: Singapore's population is 5.4 million currently and Singaporean citizens account for just 3.28 million and if half of them are male, then only 1.64 million of them have to do NS since women are excused. That figure of 1.64 citizens is actually too big as that includes newly naturalized male Singaporeans who were exempt from NS because of their age, so let's drop it down to 1.5 million as a conservative estimate. So that's 1.5 out of 5.4 million = 27.77% of the people in Singapore have done NS. That is a small minority - what about the other 72% then who do not need to do NS (women + foreigners)? Are they second class citizens because they have not done NS? Hardly, it is the men who have done NS who are the second class citizens as a result of reservist obligations.

      If you are going to work in Singapore, chances are - you will have a boss who is either a female or a foreigner (ie. the 72% who don't have to do NS) so they would have very little understanding of what NS means and would default to more standard benchmarks to evaluate a job candidate's quality - such as his academic record and work experience.

      And if you do meet a male Singaporean boss who is going to refuse you a job on the basis of the fact that you didn't complete NS, tell him 'screw you asshole' and go work for someone else.

      The fact is, those of us who are in a position to offer you a job, we're not fucking stupid (excuse my language) - but yes I have to make a point. We're not fucking stupid idiots, what do you take us for? If you genuinely have a medical condition that renders you a PES F, we understand that you did not choose to have this medical condition, we understand that the PES status is determined by a medical board and we understand that you had no say in your PES status. The bottom line is: we UNDERSTAND because we're not fucking stupid and only a fucking stupid idiot would "punish" you for your PES status and would you want to work for a fucking stupid idiot? Clearly not.

      Look I will turn this into a proper blog post for you so look out for it but I hope I have helped you with some vital information. Geez, like I said I get so fucking angry when young people like you are given WRONG information and misled!! Glad I could help!!

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    3. Hi Limpeh Foreign Talent thanks for you reply! The thing about second class citizen is from my clerks in camp and from my outside friends and clerks.. they all said that those they heard of pes F got second class treatment.. like paying houses and seeing doctors without any government subsidies.. i got really worried cause of all this and seeing the negative thinking some singaporeans got against pes F people ... im getting scared... i think they want to pes F me because of my leg operation issues.. and i have been on mc for about 8 months and now i need to opt on my left leg .. which my officer said he wants to discharge me ... im really torn in between as i dont know what Pes F really affects me for my future... and i will be ashamed to say i am Pes F ... being mocked by family and friends on mc hurts enough...

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    4. Hi Dien, listen you've been fed a LOT of bullshit and I can see why. The clerks in your camps and your so-called 'outside friends' are just messing with your head because, well, you're gullible enough to believe their lies. There's no such rule about HDB allocation/payment or medical treatment that rules out anyone with PES F - the next time they tell you such bullshit lies, tell them to prove it. Aiyoh, please lah, why you so foolish, people tell you such utter total bullshit you believe them?! Good grief. For crying out aloud, are you a 3 year old kid who is naive enough to believe any crap that anyone tells you? No wonder people are bullying you by messing with your head like that because you are dumb enough to believe their ridiculous bullshit. Tolong lah, wisen up a bit please for your own sake, these idiots are fucking with you, they are messing with your head because they can - and this is nothing new. Get used to it - life is full of assholes and idiots out there and you just have to be wise enough to spot bullshit a mile away. There was this medic in my camp who loved going around telling everyone they had serious illnesses - and when caught doing so, he would be like, "joking only lah". Hey, NS prepares you to deal with idiots like that out there in life and you'd better be prepared to deal with it.

      And here's the deal with NS - the majority of us suffer in NS. Heck, I suffered a lot in my first year in NS. If I saw someone who did not have to do NS, I would be jealous, that's my first instinct. That is why they are messing with your head - they are jealous of you, that you're on MC and possibly not having to complete NS whilst they are suffering so much. They're not going to say, "I wish I was on MC like you" - so instead they fuck with your head and tell you lies and convince you that you're going to be worse off.

      Man, I don't know what else I can do for you. I am giving you the facts: these idiots are fucking you about, they are messing with your head. You have now the choice to either believe me and see these idiots for what they are: jealous, insecure, insensitive and immature fools who are really quite nasty bullies, mocking you and being really quite nasty to you; or you can choose to ignore me and allow yourself to be bullied by these people who are so mean to you.

      The bottom line is though, none of the bullshit these fuckers have said to you is true. It's a pile of stupid lies - now please, for fuck's sake, don't be such a fucking stupid idiot and believe their lies. None of it is true. They cannot produce a shred of evidence to prove that PES F people are discriminated in the housing market or in terms of medical care - go on, before you believe their lies, go verify with the HDB or ministry of health to see if it is true or not.

      Geez, don't be so fucking stupid. At least call up HDB and ministry of health before choosing to believe their idiotic lies.

      It's time for you to grow up and take control of the situation. Stop being so naive, stop being so gullible, check the facts of the case independently for yourself, stand up to your bullies and if someone is mean to you, tell them to FUCK OFF. Understood?

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    5. i understand what you are saying haha... i understand whats going on right now... at least... well kinda trust them cause if so many say it that way and non say that nothing will happen ... you tend to get abit worried... well i dont know what to do now... pes F when i get the chance or try to push it away? because im really afraid they pes F me right after my left leg surgery, leaving me disabled for a year and need to pay the bills myself...

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    6. Well Dien, don't trust them. They are not your friends. They hate you, They gain gleeful pleasure out of messing with your head and putting you through stress - with 'friends' like that, who needs enemies? Geez. Sorry if I sound harsh Dien, but you sound like a really naive kid who believes any crap, any bullshit, anyone tells you and you're just not aware of the fact that people hate you, people will lie to you and you cannot trust everyone and believe anything they tell you. Duh. It's time for you to grow up and face the ugliness of the real world.

      Listen, if someone told me, "there will be a typhoon tomorrow, 190 km/hr winds, heavy rain" - what will I do? Would I panic and believe them? Or would I check the weather forecast on several different sources to see if there is really going to be a storm tomorrow? Come on Dien, we live in the age of the internet and it's so easy to get hold of information we need, you have found me - you can go to the HDB or the ministry of health easily and get the information you need as well either online or by picking up the phone and calling them.

      So don't be a fucking idiot and say I don't know what to do now. You will call the HDB as well as the Ministry of Health and prove to yourself that your so-called friends have been bullying you, messing with your head and that you've been an idiot when you allowed them to bully you like this! That means that people whom you trusted and thought were your friends actually hate you, wanted to bully you and are not your friends at all. That's the bad news - the good news is that none of the lies they told you are true.

      Listen to me: don't live in ignorance in this day and age, don't be a fucking idiot. You need information now - you need to get in touch with the relevant authorities (HDB, Ministry of Health) and speak to someone there about your situation so once and for all, you can prove to yourself, "oh all these people have been bullying me and messing with my head and feeding me lies and I was stupid enough to believe that bullshit - they all hate me, why was I stupid enough to believe people who HATE me?"

      As for your PES status, what the fuck are you talking about? Geez. Are you a fucking doctor? No you are not a fucking doctor. Only a doctor gets to decide your PES status. You are not a fucking doctor, so you don't get a say - the doctors get a say because they know more about your fucking leg than you do.

      Yes the SAF takes care of your medical bills when you are NSF, but once you are discharged, there is a level of basic care that Singaporean citizens are entitled to in government hospitals which means that you will pay only a fraction of the bill but not all of it.For crying out aloud, fucking hell - this is the kind of information you need from the ministry of health, you need to talk to a hospital professional about this, you need to talk to a doctor about this kind of things - I can't believe you are just sitting there like a fucking lemon, worrying about this instead of getting reliable information about the medical bills DIRECTLY from the hospital.

      Sorry if I am being fucking rude here. But your reaction is just so fucking wrong in so many ways here.

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    7. To do list for you:

      1. Admit that you don't have that many friends and that people who have lied to you hate you, are bullies and not friends and you need to distance yourself from the bullies rather than allow them to mess with your head like this!

      2. You need to speak to your MO as well as the ministry of health and a hospital professional about the situation with your medical bills should you get discharged - there is a decent amount of coverage that will mean that you are NOT left disabled and saddled with medical bills. For fuck's sake, get the answers you need instead of sitting there like a lemon, expecting others to solve your problems for you.

      3. Take control of the situation, be an adult. You need solutions and any amount of sulking, claiming you're depressed or sad isn't going to change shit.

      4. This may be like point 1, but good grief, accept in life that there are horrible people who hate you despite the fact that you've done nothing wrong or have ever offended them - they will hate you anyway and will gladly do whatever harm they can to you. You sound like this terribly naive kid who believes that everyone in the world is nice when there are a lot of wicked, evil people out there who hate you and you have to beware of of them!!

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    8. yes i admit that i dont have many or i could say, have friends now... with my physical condition and MC not allowing me to see my friends made quite a toll on my friendships, and the councillor says i got anxiety issues... it just sucks that im being a big target board by my officers. Being away from camp i dont even know whats happening day by day... talked to the MO this afternoon he say he cant help me if they want to discharge me.... being knowing that pes F isnt all that i thought about... but being tossed around in the dark its just too much. My health after enlisting really became from good > bad > worse and i dont know who to ask for help... even if i want to ask for help, i need to go thru the officer who wanted me out in the first place. Everyone i went to ask for help like councillors, MOs say i need to find someone else.. but when i ask that "someone" else they say its beyond their abilities to help me but "suck thumb".

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    9. Well thanks Limpeh Foreign Talent for your time in scolding me into waking up ... i guess i had more enemies than friends i could trust ... . i would be more wary of them from now on... its just to risky when it comes to my future to be misled by others..

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    10. I'm sorry if I have sounded very harsh, I just want to assure you that I have been there myself and went through NS and suffered a lot back in the day and please, I want you to trust me - I know what I am talking about, I won't bullshit you and if I don't have the right info, I will ask you to go get it yourself.

      What I found about NS that was a rude awakening (and a major chance to grow up) was the amount of bullying that went on - I got bullied for no more than the fact that I was from a good JC and I had to pretend to not speak English (thankfully my Hokkien is very good) properly in order to pretend to be stupid in order to blend in because if I spoke English normally, people would HATE me for not being like them. It was a scary experience, but learning to adapt to the way things were in NS made me grow up a lot and learn many skills about dealing with difficult people the hard way. I became a lot more careful with people, I learnt not to trust people, I learnt to verify anything they told me before believing them and I learnt that yes there will be people who will HATE me and want to do harm to me despite me never ever having done anything to them. That was a scary thought but once I got used to it, I knew how to protect myself by becoming a lot better with people: for example, I would never allow my trust to be abused (the way you did) by simply not handing my trust over in the first place.

      You see Dien, you made a silly mistake - you trusted someone you should have never trusted in the first place: you believed the lies they told you and you allowed yourself to be damaged by them in the process. If you had been careful enough to at least double check the facts before believing them, then you could have saved yourself so much grief and stress.

      Man, this is a learning experience. It is time for you to learn how to be a LOT more careful with the people you meet and I am glad I have been able to play a part in helping you learn this valuable lesson that will serve you well for the rest of your life.

      I am sorry if I fucking swore so much. It's a bad habit I know, I shouldn't use the word fuck so much.

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    11. Haha its alright i guess... i swear all the time too .... understand where your coming at ... i too made alot of friends and enemies in Army, and i guess being busy avoiding the enemies, you tend to forget sometimes your friends can be your enemy too... being pushed around camps on enlistment day to being a status sweeping and digging drains for 2 months to being physically incapable to do things on my mc it sorts of affects my self esteem. i guess i didnt see people in camp for long, people change.. maybe they started to hate me cause of all the paperwork and works they need to take over and do... but i do guess some of them really didnt mean it... they did say that all they heard rumors about is that pes F is equal to second class, and they have no other info on how true that is... i guess it was also bad on my part as in i didnt get into research on the facts and... i forgot to ask the MO about the pes F when i saw the MO just now!

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    12. As for councilors and MO being neither willing nor able to help you, guess what? There's one more solution that's so obvious that I can't believe you have missed it: you can help YOURSELF.

      You've made a good start by coming to me for help - now at least I can point you in the right direction to give you concrete steps you can take to help yourself through this situation. Remember, you are the BEST person to help yourself through this situation.

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    13. yea i realised end of the day, only you can help yourself... im really lucky to be able to find people who are willing to listen to me.. help me and help others similar in my plight...

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    14. OK I refer you back to your comment earlier that even your camp mates admitted that this whole PES F bullshit is a "rumour" and that you didn't bother to verify the facts - now let me nip it in the bud once and for all and say that it is all COMPLETELY FALSE. And you have to take responsibility for being so utterly foolish and stupid to believe such a stupid lie without even bothering to verify the facts - so please, learn your lesson about dealing with issues like that and in the future, do NOT be so naive and trusting and always use your resources to check and double check the facts before believing someone you really shouldn't trust at all.

      As for friends, I say, life is not a popularity contest. If I am placed in a situation where I don't like the people around me (such as in NS) I just became very quiet and reserved. I read a lot of books so I didn't need to talk to people and those around me just thought I was a very quiet guy. That's so much better than allowing yourself to be bullied left, right and centre by people who hate you. Please, you have to be so much more careful with people in NS - and in the big bad world out there. Grow up and realize just how ugly and scary this world can be and guard yourself against people who hate you.

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    15. Yea it really got a huge load off my shoulders now things are more clear... would you do a blog post regarding this? i think there are alot of NSF out there being lost and not knowing whats happening in their lives like me, and it would really help clear alot of doubts and worries.

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    16. Well I am glad I can help - but you really need to do a lot more to help yourself by getting all the info you need from all the respective sources - if you're on MC then you have no excuse not to spend enough time getting all the right info from the right government departments. And please, there was no excuse to believe the bullshit evil lies that your bullies have told you, never ever make that stupid mistake ever again!

      As for a blog post about this, I don't know - you see, your problem was that you were dumb enough (sorry, being blunt here) to believe a pack of lies told to you by a bunch of bullies who hated you.

      I see your problem as not being a flaw of the system but rather a flaw in your character I'm afraid (sorry for being so brutally honest) - there's nothing wrong with the system, if a soldier is deemed to be PES F then so be it and the system is not going to screw you over and punish you for your medical condition. Singapore is not that fucked up, the SAF is a lot more fair than you give it credit for and just because your bullies hate you enough to mess with your head by feeding you evil lies, it doesn't make the SAF or the Singapore government any worse than it is.

      The problem isn't with the SAF or the system because the information is out there, you can get help and seek clarification from the proper authorities - your mistake is that you FAILED to get the help and information you needed and instead believed in the evil lies fed to you by people who hated you and wanted to cause you great harm.

      Sorry to be brutally honest, but I don't think there are many people who are as stupid, naive and dumb enough to make that kind of mistake. Yes I believe that there are NSF out there who are confused about the PES status and how it affects their lives, but the SAF doesn't guard these rules like some kind of official secret that ordinary folks like you and I are not allowed to know about - no, the SAF is transparent and fair and is more than happy to offer that information to anyone who wishes to know. Sure there may be some individuals who have failed you along the way Dien by not providing the right information to you, but even by your own admission, you did not ask the MO the right questions today when you saw him.

      So I'm probably not going to do a post about this as I feel the SAF is perfectly fine as it is when it comes to this issue - but it's your naivety that I am worried about and I want you to approach the issue of bullies in a far more grown up manner!

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    17. I just had a 45 min chat with the saf hotline and they told me that the second class citizenship is true if i really indeed get a pes F from medical board ... guess my friends didnt betray me afterall....

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    18. What did they say? I find it hard to believe - can you give me some details please? After all, if you are indeed suffering from a medical condition that renders you PES F, I find it incredible that the system would 'punish' you for being ill. How incredibly inhuman is that? How fucked up is that - to punish someone over something they have no control over?

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    19. I have tight tendon achilles on both my legs, and require surgery to lengthen them. Basically cutting them and stretching them to the desired medical length and let the cuts heal back. I now got a 4.5 inch scar on the back on my right leg and it hurts to walk still... im on mc for already 9 months. Knowing that i have yet to operate on my left leg, my officer wants to discharge me, even telling me that there are no repercussion into being a pes f and dismiss the doubts i hear of pes f being second class.. Now my HR also wants to pes F me because of long mc, desperate i called the hotline to answer my questions... it was true! If i were to be pes F i would be told to sign a form to becoming a second class citizen, with housing and medical subsidies taken away. What hurts the most is its inhumane to do that to us, i feel like im being born and branded uselss by the government and society. We should require the most help but they chose to void those benifits away, so that we all rot and die in a corner? And my officer lying to me is like digging my grave, waiting to push me in and cover it. What did i do for them to ruin my life and my future? Why must they target me like this!? Ive been living my life of mc alone for 9 months broken from my friends, family, all i can do is look at people from my window and they want to destroy my future because im trying to be responsible and become healthy before i ord so i can support my family. Why are they ruining me and my family's future? It hurts so bad that when you find out that you are already branded as useless pes f before you can do anything about it.. i did not choose this, i did not choose to have this medical conditions and i would rather die than let them take away my future if that proves a point that the pes f way needs to change! The worst is i got no say if they want to ruin my life and make me a outcast.

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    20. OK this sucks and I am sorry I was not aware of the situation with housing and medical subsidies being taken away - I knew of people who were PES F back in the day but they were entitled to housing/medical subsidies then and perhaps this was something that changed in the recent years.

      It is inhumane indeed to punish you for what is not at all your fault and I am shocked - I had far more faith in the Singaporean system and this just sucks big time. I can understand why you are upset - I am angry too, especially since WOMEN, female Singaporeans don't have to serve NS but are still entitled to all of those subsidies. Newly naturalized (PRC imports) citizens are also able to get all kinds of benefits but you are being punished for something that is NOT at all your fault? This is fucking ridiculous man, I am so sorry you're in this shitty situation.

      If it makes you feel any better, allow me to share my story: I came to the UK for my degree and stayed on as a foreign talent working in London. As a Singaporean in London then, I had no right to claim any benefits from the government but still paid full whack in terms of my taxes. Today at the age of 37, I own my flat as well as one other one across town (so that tops up my income, the rent check is useful). Was there any secret formula? No, I just worked hard, was careful with money and chose to invest in property - I got on the property ladder with no help from any government and my story isn't unusual really: loads of people do exactly what I did and simply get on the property ladder through the private market route.

      As for medical subsidies, you'll just have to buy medical insurance to make sure that you are covered should something go wrong and you can get the treatment you want. It's not complicated - it is fairly common actually in Singapore for expatriates.

      Look, I know it is unfair and boy I am shocked by how rotten the system is. This is why I am glad I am no longer living in Singapore for I think your story illustrates how wrong the system and society is in so many ways. But I don't want you to talk about them 'destroying your future' - fine, they take away your housing subsidies and medical subsidies. It's just money from the government at the end of the day and money can be earned - you just have to work hard and earn that money. It's not a problem that money cannot solve.

      By that token, please do not talk as if it is the end of the world and that your future is destroyed. It's just a problem about money and let's see it for what it is.

      PS. Ever thought about emigrating since Singapore sucks so much?

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    21. Yes i have been thinkinf about it ... but there are good and bad to remain here... becoming a second class citizen is abit too much.... being fooled by my superior ...

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    22. Sure of course there are good and bad things about Singapore - no one country is ever totally bad or totally good, it is a collection of different factors and you take the good with the bad. The UK is by no means perfect, but I am far happier here than I would be in Singapore. As for your superior who lied to you, get over it - there's no point in being angry with him. I think of the number of people in my life who have wronged me and if I spent my days being angry with them, I would have sent myself to an early grave a long time ago.

      You just have to deal with the hand you're dealt in life and move on with it - if you want to talk about moving abroad then I am happy to chat about it. But please, losing your medical and housing subsidies is not the end of the world. I may be now (as a British citizen) entitled to medical and housing subsidies but I have never ever used it. I got on the property ladder through the private market as I am rich enough and I have (touch wood) been very healthy and the only time I needed to go to the hospital was for an X-ray after a bad fall and that was the only time I have been in the hospital since 1997. It is not the end of the world - I know you're angry but you need to get past your anger and focus on what is important.

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    23. I did consider going somewhere else thats not always so busy, maybe a quieter life? Haha ... but then i need to work extra hard i guess.... and family is another thing.... something i guess people need to know maybe is the pes f , i guess more people need to know how unfair and hard it is for people and pes f and who are sick... cannot imagine if you are terribly sick, get discharged to pay everythinf yourself!

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    24. The way I see it, you only have two choices:

      1. Accept that your future in Singapore has to include you funding your own quest to get on the property ladder (I did it with no government help and so can you) and you need to fund your own health care through private medical insurance. It is NOT the end of the world, it is NOT a big deal and you can live with that and it is just a problem that money can solve. If you get a great job and earn millions, then all that money can solve all those problems.

      2. Leave. Get out of Singapore and go live in another country. I did that. I knew I could not change Singapore so that's absolutely no point in trying to complain or change anything, so what's the point of even trying? Just leave ASAP.

      How does your family feel about your PES F predicament? Are they understanding/supportive ... or not?

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    25. I guess their reply was try to die die not get pes f i guess... finish it without gettin pes f .... from what the hotline guy had said to me, they cant pes f me while im on mc right now and even if they want to they need to go through a counsellor or psychiatrist approval to pes f... im currently seeing a counsellor so the hotline is going to update them on my situation and im still awating a psychiatrist session for my anxiety issues ... one way is to not operate on my left leg and try to pull thru the 1 year and bear with the pain ... or make understand that this surgery is to make my life easier and it is necessary... not something i choose... the hotline personel did apologise to me and say some supervisors worked so long in the force they tend to be biased against people taking mc thinking they chao keng. Well i cant blame them but could only persuade them to see things from my view through the counsellor or psychiatrist ....

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    26. The hotline did told me to hang in there, to bear with the tremendous amount of worry.... and stress... he said that i cant and should not do anything stupid and not think about it totally until i can get some help however small could change the outcome if i indeed was recommended for pes f... he said that if physical disabilites isnt much of a problem and mentally im fine they shouldnt pes f me, and cant do that to me. So im really looking forward to pour my heart out at the next counsellor session

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    27. Hey man, hang on in there, I can't write much now as I'm in the middle of the working day and I need to run out of here in 10 minutes to go to a meeting across town, but I am here for you to talk to you about it - okay?

      Worrying and stressing about this isn't going to change or fix anything, you're just punishing yourself. Just listen to me please: this is about MONEY at the end of the day. Don't think about it as "oh it's so not fair blah blah blah" - life is not fair, some people are born into terrible war torn African countries where they face incredible obstacles to get through their basic daily routines and okay, the people handling your case could be a lot more sympathetic to your situation simply because your medical condition is clearly not your fault. But this is a problem that MONEY can solve and surely you intend to be successful enough in your working life to earn enough money to solve these problems?

      Perhaps I am simplifying the issue for now - but I am putting it in a way which is focusing on the solution (ie. enough money solves everything) rather than the inherent injustice you're facing (ie. which I can't do anything about - cos that's just the way things are in S'pore I'm afraid).

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    28. OK a few more thoughts that have popped into my head in the last hour or so.

      1. Read about Sky Vayden Lim's case - look, he is PES F9 and he is getting on with his life quite happily, starting his own business at such a young age. He is such an admirable young man who just dealt with the cards he was handed in life and got on with it - do you see him moaning "I'm a second class citizen!" or complaining blah blah blah etc? No, he is getting on with life. Do spend a moment reading about him and seeing his interview on youtube - you can learn a thing or two from him. Sure he may not be entitled to housing/medical subsidies - but rich people will not depend on those anyway (only poor people who cannot make ends meet will fall back on those) and Sky looks like he intends to be a rich successful businessman anyway.

      I guess this is the equivalent of a circus show when you remove the safety net. You ever watch those trapeze shows where they have a safety net so if the performer falls they won't hit the floor and die? Sometimes, just to get the audience excited, they deliberately remove the safety net, just so the performer simply HAS to get it right on the first attempt (or risk falling 30 metres and dying). Well, that's what Sky is doing now - his safety net has been removed and he simply HAS to become RICH now and it looks like even at his young age, he is definitely going to become quite successful and rich indeed. Sometimes in life, it takes something like that, the removal of a safety net, to motivate us into action, to force us to succeed if there is no room for error.

      You may lose your safety net - but so what? Think about it as a kick up the backside to force you to be rich and successful in life. Do you want to be rich and successful or do you want to be poor and a failure? Think about it.

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    29. Yea i guess thinking back about this situation... it isnt that bad afterall ... i can pursue the things i want to go for still even without those benefits... it might be harder, but i guess it could also be a motivation to work harder because more is at stake... i guess this truly made me change my views about my future and how i get to approach it... well its all up to the higher ups to decide... will update when i get to see the counsellor to see what she have to say about this situation!

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    30. on a side note, i guess there are lots of people who don't know that being pes F means u lose some benefits of being a singaporean... the older gen don't seem to know and it does not exist during their time so i guess the army didn't make an effort to let the public at least know what pes f actually happens to you... usually u can ask pes A to E and everyone knows but not pes F ... maybe thats why there are so many negative thoughts on people who are pes F... but i do feel that they should be given a helping hand ....

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    31. Well, I would say that just because you have already gone through quite a few months of NS, if you can finish it, you may as well finish it. But I must remind you that in most cases, you will not get a say in your PES status because you're not a doctor and you don't understand the situation with your medical condition. Usually, what happens is this: someone gets PES A/B and they are not happy with that - so they go to an external doctor and get a letter to declare that they have a serious condition that the SAF doctors have overlooked. The SAF doctors will then look at that letter and say, "okay, your doctor claims we have overlooked the situation with your heart/lungs/knee/ear/eyes etc, let's have a look at that and we'll decide if it is really that serious." It's always for the downgrade, trying to upgrade is ... unheard of, we're in uncharted waters because the SAF doctors always always always try to upgrade people if possible, so in your case... well. I say, it's one of those things, it's out of your hands. Worrying/stressing about it won't change a thing.

      But I am glad you have understood that if you lose any kind of housing/medical benefits, it's not the end of the world: it's nothing MONEY can't solve. You know, I served my NS and then emigrated, so I never claimed a cent of any kind of housing/medical benefits from the Singapore government. If only, I could say, "hey, I served but never claim, can I transfer my rights to Dien please?" But no, it doesn't work like that. Hey, look at me, I worked hard, I earned money, I got on with life and guess what? It's not rocket science - I'm doing fine and who needs subsidies when you can rely on yourself? As I live in the UK, there are a lot of government subsidies and handouts/welfare benefits for people who are poor/unemployed that I am entitled to (I hold a UK passport today) if I become poor or unemployed - but I have too much pride to put my hand out and ask the government for money! That's only for FAILURES, for LOSERS who cannot make ends meet and need help. I have more pride than that.

      As for what others think about PES F ... Mate, they're free to think what they want. Think about Sky Vayden Lim, you just have to ignore them and prove yourself successful in life. Become bloody rich and piss them off - that's the Singaporean way.

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    32. Yea i really agree with you in this... i guess with all the sheltering the government gives, the benefit, i guess its easy to be complacent and take things for granted. When its taken away then we panic and all hope gets lost... but then i guess i failed to see that people in other countries live their life like that without help from their government, and even if they went to them would get little to no help at all... it all boils down to hard work and yea, to survive to pull through all these. Everybody wants to be rich, and would try all methods to get rich, but i guess what really matters is the motivation... if having less benefits motivates me as a individual to work harder, to be able to plan further in my life, then i think it isnt that bad afterall, its still a benefit in disguise i guess.... and it really teaches me, it does not matter what other people see in me, but rather what i see in myself. The road ahead might look daunting, guess its time to buck up and work freaking hard from now on!

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    33. Dien, let's get down to earth and talk about some numbers here, okay? Can you actually put a number on what those subsidies are worth? The government is not gonna GIVE you a HDB flat, you merely get to buy it at a subsidized, lower price. Likewise, the government is going to GIVE you free medical care for the rest of your life - you get to pay a subsidized, lower price (and a lot of that will be paid for via your Medisave anyway).

      If you are going to lose out on something, you need to put a value on it. Let me give you an example: my sister and her husband managed to buy their first HDB flat upon getting married at a subsidized rate - but they merely lived there for 3-4 years, before upgrading to a condominium which they bought on the private market, without any government subsidy whatsoever. What would they have done if they couldn't buy the HDB flat at a subsidized rate? They would have probably just waited a bit longer, worked a bit harder, saved a bit more before they could get on the property ladder entirely with their own money. Sure the subsidy was useful at the beginning but ultimately, given how much my bro-in-law and sister earn, THEY DON'T NEED IT. There are loads of Singaporeans who get on with life without expecting any help from the government.

      You just have to make sure that you are one of those people who are so successful and rich you don't need any help from anyone.

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    34. Yes i guess thats totally true... well i guess i cant say whats going to happen in the future, but guess thinking about going out of singapore would be a nice change of scenery and culture... start looking at alternate options.. was it very hard for you when you start out in another country, away from your family and in a place that you are not used to? I did consider going overseas to study after earning money...

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    35. Hi Dien, let me explain something - I didn't get along with my parents at all I'm afraid and going to live in another country, putting several time zones between me and my parents was the best thing for our relationship as it stopped us from fighting all the time. I knew I needed to get away from my parents and when the opportunity came, I grabbed it and went far, far away. It was the best thing ever. I suppose I could say that I am adaptable, I am intelligent and a quick learner and you could throw me into any country in the world and I would adapt, learn a new language if I had to (I speak 7 languages confidently and get by in another 20) and am very good at making new friends.

      And pullease. Enough of that studying crap. You Singaporeans and your obsession with studying. You need to make money, you need to start a business, you need to be like a working adult and establish a career. Studying? At your age? For what? What is the point of all the studying crap? Like honestly, you need to look at young entrepreneurs like that Sky Vayden Lim who started his own business without giving a toss about getting a degree.

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  8. I don't understand why camp MOs can be so inexperienced in diagnosing a soldier's injury. Before enlistment, my son had reported to cmpb that he has severe bilateral pes planus and has the tendency to fall. So far he had 3 major falls(always on his right side). But the medic did not record it down and inform the MO at Pulau Tekong Camp. So he suffered for 4 months. The MO at Tekong said they don't deal with flat feet. Hisright leg gave way after his 24km march. Was posted to armour. Told MO about his pain and was told to do exercise to get rid of pain. Sent him to specialist and was referred for permanent down pes but MO refused to acknowledge the letter and called the specialist a f---ed up doc. Asked my son to go MMI and then do MRI. From late Sept 2019 to early Nov 2019 see MMI doc then early Jan 2020 go for MRI. But results showed feet have no abnormalities but pain is still present on his right foot. No down pes given. Sent him to another specialist for second opinion. Answer came back the same. Both docs asked for permanent down pes as condition is severe but MO insisted cannot down pes. My son had a nervous breakdown after that. It's very painful for me and I am also stressed. I.met with a serious accident in june 2019 and fractured my fingers due to the stupidness of all the MOs. I fon't know what I can do to help my son. Sering him in pain is like a knife piercing through my heart. Doesthe MO want to wait until someone gets injured or something more serious happen then putthe blame on other officers.Now he's sending my son to see the medical review board to be judged by the orthopeadic doctors. I don't know is this considered a safety breach by the MO due to delay and caused my son to be in pain for so many months. Most grateful if someone can advice me what to do.

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    1. Look, I don't know what I can do but from my experience, you need to know this: YES the system is inept, corrupt and broken. YES you have suffered an injustice but here's where we part company. I am not at all surprised at the way your son was treat - I am not saying he deserves it, but we have a situation where were every other soldier is trying to fake or exaggerate symptoms in order to get the downgrade they want for an easier life and so every injury (fake or genuine), every medical condition is treated with extreme skepticism and suspicion.

      You need to do this: go see a doctor you can trust (this may be a family GP, a doctor from a hospital who knows your family etc), ask them if they know someone who knows someone within MINDEF to work some back channels in order to make things easier for your son so he no longer has to wait for an appointment to prove that he is sick, but someone simply needs to make a phone call from A to B to inform them to do a little favour to settle this once and for all.

      You are after all, dealing with a HIGHLY CORRUPT and UTTERLY BROKEN system. I feel you should take responsibility as a parent for not having been aware of exactly what your son is up against.

      Of course they are all a bunch of corrupt, fucked up motherfuckers - the MOs, the whole fucking lot of them. Boy if only I am not trying to finish some work, I have some stories for you. The whole system is CORRUPT beyond belief. My only question for you is this: why didn't you realize it was so fucking corrupt as such?

      And better still, why didn't you emigrate to spare your son NS if he has such a condition?!?!?

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