Hey limpei can i get some advice.
currently i am pes E9L9 the lowest pes before exemption from NS. I am wondering if i should request an up pes and go through army life like the rest or my peers. Or would you advice me to instead gain knowledge on business or finance or learn french haha since i will have some free time while in ns. I didnt chao geng to get pes E9. i was a sportsman and got several injuries, i am really not sure if i can even up pes. But would of course love to make sure this 2 years will be fulfilling especially for my future.
currently i am pes E9L9 the lowest pes before exemption from NS. I am wondering if i should request an up pes and go through army life like the rest or my peers. Or would you advice me to instead gain knowledge on business or finance or learn french haha since i will have some free time while in ns. I didnt chao geng to get pes E9. i was a sportsman and got several injuries, i am really not sure if i can even up pes. But would of course love to make sure this 2 years will be fulfilling especially for my future.
Thank you for the very interesting question Jacob. I must begin by reminding you that your PES status is determined by a panel of doctors upon your check up at CMPB and you are PES E9L9 for a valid medical reason. It is fairly rare that one is given a PES E9 status - this is reserved only for cases where the soldier has a very serious medical condition. You did not tell me what the reason was for your downgrading, but if the panel of doctors have determined your status serious enough to warrant a PES E9 grading, then you should respect their opinion since you're not a qualified doctor.
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| Trust me, I am a doctor. |
But let's say, hypothetically, you do have the option to march up to CMPB, ask to be upgraded and they will say yes (highly unlikely, but let's just run with this hypothetical scenario, okay) - should you accept that option to upgrade then? Most Singaporean men who have been through NS will scream at this point, "NOOOOOO! You xiao or stupid or both?" Allow me to analyze this "choice" you are contemplating.
Some guys actually do have a great time in NS - they are assigned a vocation they enjoy, they learn new skills along the way, they find themselves challenged in a way that they would never be in civilian life, they grow a lot mentally and make loads of wonderful friends in the process. Yes it can be fantastic - but by the same token, there are also guys who are assigned a vocation they totally hate, they are made to do mundane physical chores that do not challenge them in any way whatsoever, their brains feel unstimulated for the full duration of NS and they totally hate the people they are forced to work with - and they have effectively wasted 2 years of their lives doing useless, vapid, stupid shit that is not useful, not fulfilling and serves no purpose whatsoever for their future. (And there's everything in between.)
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| What kind of experience did these soldiers have? |
My experience was "in between" - I had two vocations, the first I hated, then I was very lucky, I was given a different vocation which I didn't exactly enjoy but because it was so much better than my first shitty, horrible, nasty vocation, I felt lucky and thankful for it. I didn't find myself stimulated or challenged in any meaningful way during NS (thus I turned to self-study courses for mental stimulation and self-improvement) and I suppose the most important lesson I learnt was how to get along and work with horrible people I utterly totally hated - it was my first taste of office politics and a dose of reality for me as I had to encounter plenty more of that in the working world.
So what determines the quality of your experience in NS then? In one word: luck. Some people get assigned vocations that neatly suit their preferences, are placed in units where they have caring and kind officers who take good care of them and they meet wonderful friends along the way. Others get assigned vocations they totally hate, are placed in units where the officers just want to bully them and they only meet horrible people they hate and have a thoroughly miserable, lonely time in NS. Where will you be assigned should you upgrade your PES status? I don't know Jacob, that depends entirely on your luck. Are you a lucky guy Jacob? Have you always had good luck?
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| Do you realize you're taking a huge gamble on this Jacob? |
By that same token, as a PES E9 soldier, you will be given a clerical vocation and most of the above still applies apart from the question of your vocation (which will definitely be clerical). You still don't know what kind of superiors you will have to answer to or what kind of people you would have to work with - there is still a large amount of uncertainty left to chance/luck in your case. You will have virtually no control over the situation.
Many guys who are facing NS simply have to cross their fingers, say a prayer (if they are religious) and hope for the best (whilst expecting the worst) and try their best to deal with whatever situation they are thrown into. You actually do have a choice Jacob - you can either roll the dice and see if you're lucky (ie. what all the other guys have to do), or you can say, "I will have a clerical vocation which will allow me to have my evenings and weekends free - I can make use of that time to learn foreign languages, expand my professional network by attending industry events, take care of my family, gain work experience, study external courses and maybe even gain credits for university."
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| How is this going to be relevant to your civilian life? |
The onus would be then on you to make sure that you make full use of those evenings and weekends to do useful things to enrich yourself - don't forget, you would have done a full day's work by then and will be tired. The temptation would be then to just go on and watch crap on TV, spend time on the internet or just sleep, rather than study or work. In my time, I saw loads of PES E9 soldiers who simply wasted their evenings and weekends rather than do anything useful or productive in that time. My question for you Jacob is this: do you have the self-discipline to pursue a self-study course or run an internet based business in the few free hours you will have in the evenings?
If the answer is YES, then you should accept your PES E9 status and start thinking about what you want to do with your free time in the evenings. What are your long term ambitions when it comes to your career and what can you achieve in these two years to help get you where you want to be? Are there courses you can study? Are there languages you need to learn? Or is there work experience that you can get in your free time? If the answer is NO, then you can consider upgrading, rolling that dice, taking that gamble and hoping that you may get a good experience as a combat fit soldier (if your health condition permits that). The question with all gambles is this: are you feeling lucky punk?
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| Are you feeling lucky, punk? |
Quite frankly, I wouldn't if I were you - because you could lose this gamble and pay a very high price for losing that gamble. I get the feeling you don't realize just how high the stakes are and how high a price you will pay if you lose that gamble - I have seen too many PES A/B soldiers who are stuck in horrible vocations and are so utterly totally miserable they are suicidal (and some have indeed committed suicide). Do you want to risk being one of them for the (very, extremely) small possibility that you may get something out of the experience that will be "fulfilling" and useful for your future? Don't be bloody stupid lah. You should never gamble with something like that when the stakes are that high.
Let me put this to you: what if you rolled the dice, took a gamble and lost? You end up with a horrible vocation, kena tekan and bullied all the time by horrible people, you totally hate the experience and are utterly miserable. What then? Do you think you can reverse your decision at that stage and ask for a clerical vocation instead? It is not so easily done - many people try to get out of horrible, nasty vocations by seeking a PES status downgrade and usually these are rejected. If everyone who tries to get out of a horrible vocation is given a downgrade, then who is there left to do these really horrible jobs that no one wants to do?
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| What is there to be gained if you win this gamble Jacob? |
Here's the thing you have to realize about the SAF: there is this saying from my time (and I am sure they still use it now), "this is not your grandfather's army". That means, "you will do as you're told, you don't get a say, so shut up and follow your orders." If you haven't grasped that concept, then I suggest that you get with the agenda ASAP. If the medical officers appointed by the SAF deemed you are PES E9L9, then the only appropriate response on your part would be the words, "Yes sir." Do not question their judgement, do not question their decision, they are of senior rank, they are officers. You are obliged to follow your orders, not question them - get that into your head and start functioning like a soldier and not a civilian Questioning authority like that can get you into a lot of trouble in the SAF.
Lastly, there is s a good reason why you probably won't be upgraded. You have been given your PES E9 status for an injury you have sustained. The doctor who then takes it upon himself to upgrade you is taking a huge responsibility because if you are upgraded, placed in a combat situation and then an accident happens which results in you becoming seriously injured and permanently disabled (or even your death). Your parents then become furious - there is a huge public outcry. "My son is obviously not fit for combat, " your distraught parents scream in fury. "Who is the idiot who upgraded him to a combat fit vocation and placed him in a situation where he was obviously not physically fit to cope with? This doctor caused my son's death, I want to see this doctor put in jail for a very, very long time!" Did you consider how your parents may feel about this situation?
There you go, that's my take on your situation. I welcome others to add their comments below if they have a different take on the situation. Thank you for your question Jacob and if you have any further questions to raise, please let me know and I will be glad to answer them. All the best and good luck.







Hey Limpei thanks for the post :D
ReplyDeleteA very interesting post yet again :D
I was a gymnast in my youth days, did a tsukahara front once and landed face flat and twisted my head and affected my spine. Had to go for therapy and told not to do gymnastics again. But I did and went on to win some awards haha.. I know you are from gymnastics too :D used to hear about u quite a lot when I was very young. Saw your pics with some of the older gymnastics boys on fb too.
Yeah you are right. I got the pes satus for a reason. But u see I managed to continue gymnastics even with injury so I thought maybe I can tahan army. I am naïve. I guess there is a difference between combat fit and physically fit. I highly doubt that my condition will allow CMPB to up my pes.
I guess I won’t be requesting for an up pes then:D Shall do my part as a pes E in whatever vocation I get. Your advice have been a great help. Haha now I need to decide how to benefit myself within these 2 years :D
Thanks :D
OK you're welcome - but what is a Tsukhara front?!?!? A tsukhara is when you do a roundoff onto the vault followed by a 1.5 back somersaults (that's my vault: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNvTAZFiuH4 - not bad for someone in his late 30s eh?) but that's a BACK somersault, not a front somersault, unless you do a half-on, half-off front somersault (which isn't a Tsukhara, more like a lead up to a Kasamatsu vault) and then OVER rotated it to land on your face...? Sounds more like you had an under-rotated Tsukhara and landed on your face/head and injured your neck (which is more plausible if you just didn't get the push off the vault - that happened to me when I was 15).
DeleteAnyway, in my case, I started army as PES B then downgraded to PES C2 when I needed surgery on my left knee which was very damaged at that point (mostly through gymnastics) - so I got the surgery and was downgraded at the same time.
My point is that you are physically fit yes - but there are a lot of things which you have to understand in the context of the SAF, ie. THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR WELL-BEING. If you go do gymnastics despite having a spinal/neck injury and you get hurt, that's between you and your gymnastics club (and I am sure they have all kinds of insurance to cover them against such injuries and a policy/contract between them and users like you which protects them from being sued if you injure yourself again by under-rotating another vault)... and as for the SAF, say you have a serious upper spine/neck injury - that would impact on the way you handle a weapon like the rifle and if you sustain some kind of injury whilst using a weapon that permanently damages your spine/neck, then who is going to take the blame for that? Not you - but the person who said, "yeah let him have a rifle/grenade launcher, he'll be fine... he looks strong enough etc." It's not just YOU Jacob, there are plenty of OTHER people involved in this situation as well and they get a far bigger say in your PES status than you.
And from one gymnast to another - let me tell you this: you want to learn about discipline and 吃苦? You are already in the right place doing competitive sports at a high level. Those China-coaches know what they are doing and will drive you harder than anyone in the SAF ever will - you have learnt far more in the gymnasium than any experience in the SAF can ever offer you. Anything they want you to do will seem like an anti-climax after gymnastics.
In any case, believe you me when I tell you that CMPB will make good use of you when you are in NS - you will be placed in a vocation where you will be using your brains instead of your muscles to serve the SAF: and what is wrong with using your brains instead of your muscles? You'll be serving alright, just in a different vocation, in a different manner.
What you need to do now is to think about what you want to do after NS, what your career ambitions are and how you can make the best of this time to get you closer to where you want to be in your career 10 years down the line.
All the best xxx
Don't do it. I went in as Pes A and got IPPT gold for BMT. But I came out of NS as Pes C with nothing but injuries, 2.5 years of wasted time and nothing else to show for it.
ReplyDeleteAh Boys to Men said it best, "boh keng boh chut peng." That is the only advice you need to follow and none of that propaganda bullshit.
haha oops sorry for the wrong terminology. My friends and I call it Tsukahara "front" its just handspring salto. Yeah i guess the discipline from the China coaches are really more than enough. Still cant believe how i grew up as a kid in the gym not allowed to sit during training.
ReplyDelete(following not really about NS anymore)
I dont really have a clear ambition. I plan to take a degree in engineering and then im not sure about what i plan to do in the working world thereafter. Many singaporeans sees engineering as a dumping ground as it is relatively easier for any singaporean who took the A levels to enter these courses compared to the more populated courses like Business (haha i believe you see this as a dumping ground instead???) . but it is still ranked quite high. NUS is ranked 7 for their engineering school.
I have been doing quite a bit of researching since i entered JC and narrowed down my options to business related or Engineering and the sciences.( But after reading your blog, i canceled out business related degree out) I wasnt very clear of what i wanted because i have heard of many engineering undergrads that later went on to finance after a couple of years in engineering.
My parents are just O level graduates and are not really any big shots so i rarely ask them for career opinions and they rarely offer me any. My parents are different somehow haha. They just want me to lead a simple happy life.
When i asked some of my schoolmates on what they want to study most of them will be hasty and say that they will be doing the business related. and then there is me who wants to do engineering. And they always tell me how its becoming useless as we are phased out by Foreign talent.
So the thing i would like to ask you is this, Why are engineers turning to finance? Are engineers becoming redundant especially so in singapore where FTs can easily take over us? If that is the case is it still true for other country like lets say australia where you need a high proficiency of the english language and thus this would have limit the number of FT engineers? Im not sure if you are in the position to advise on the engineering field as you are in finance but i dont know anyone else that could provide a "bigger picture". Even school counselors would advise students to take up business ....
You would most probably know someone who is in finance now after leaving engineering. Have they ever told you why? Was it because the pay was crap?
PS. Sorry for the very messy reply.
Aaaah, okay, then your friends salah lah - it's a front handspring front tuck/pike/etc somersault vault.
DeleteEngineering definitely trumps business any day of the week - it also leaves you with so many more options! Engineers can easily go into any kind of business, the reverse however is not true as those with those useless business degrees cannot consider any kind of engineering as a career choice.
Let me give you two case studies to show you how this is the case: my bro-in-law did engineering at NUS and then he is working for an insurance firm today in their risk management department. He started out working as an engineer before crossing over into risk management - yes there were some courses he had to do to facilitate that cross over but it was not like he had to do a whole new degree, hell no - those were courses he did whilst working and get used to it man, you will keep on studying throughout your working life to make sure your skills are always up to date. For my bro-in-law, his engineering background is relevant as he is risk evaluating engineering projects to calculate their insurance liability - so it all fits in together very tidily and it has in fact worked out very well for him career wise.
My colleague Mark whom I work very closely with is a civil engineer by training - and so neither of us have any kind of business/finance degree but it's through sheer hard graft that him and I have learnt everything we need to know through work experience and we run the sales & marketing department together - for Mark however, it is a clean break with engineering (unlike my bro in law) and he is turning his back on engineering.
Why are engineers turning to finance? I don't know! Engineering seems like a perfectly respectable career choice to me and one that is reliable and sustainable - one will always need engineers. It could be the allure of finance: ie. people imagine that bankers make big money and have generous bonuses whilst engineers work harder and don't get paid as much... but really, I don't think that's true - you have to be good at anything before you get paid truckloads of money, if anyone thinks they can become rich by simply finding a job in finance they're mistaken - I've seen loads of people in finance struggle like xiao...
As for FTs in Singapore, the situation in banking/finance is 100 times worse than engineering, aiyoh. Make that 1000 times worse. I have worked in Singapore for a brief period in 2011 as an FT and that sector is dominated by Brits, Swiss and Americans. The Singaporeans are relegated to making the coffee and cleaning the toilets in some of these firms and if you're lucky, maybe they'll have one analyst or one receptionist/secretary who is Singaporean. The only reason why I could waltz into a great position in Singapore is because I am technically speaking BRITISH and hold a British passport so am classified as FT and not local because the whole industry in Singapore thinks that Angmohs are so much more superior than locals - don't shoot the messenger for the message, it's what you Singaporeans think.
Oh and there's Citibank which is practically run by Indian nationals.
Sorry, but the situation with FTs in Singapore is just such a mess now there are no sectors where you can dodge competition from FTs.
haha adding chim words makes it sound cool :D
DeleteI was just wondering. You seem to see business or any arts related course in a very negative light. In your view, are there any merits to it at all?
Hmmm what about FT in your country? is it comparable to singapore?
Hi Jacob, thanks for your questions!
DeleteBoth are such good questions that I will spend some time this weekend answering them in detail in the form of a post. I need to explain why I am discouraging people from business/arts degrees - despite having an arts degree myself. Business degrees are just one big fucking joke really, total waste of time and money - arts degrees do not lead you to areas in the job market where there are an abundance of jobs. I will explain this in more detail when I write more this weekend.
As for FTs in the UK, the situation is rather different. Singapore is fucked up in it's own unique way! In the UK, we have freedom of labour within the European Union (EU) so I can go work in Germany or Sweden or France tomorrow, no questions asked - and the reverse is true: a Greek or Italian person can arrive in the UK and work the same day. For other non-EU nationals to work in the UK, they need a work permit.
The reason why S'poreans are so fucking pissed off is because of the unwelcome flood of PRC migrants - the UK doesn't have that problem. We have had migrants from poorer Eastern European countries come but they are doing the lowly paid jobs that the local Brits don't want to do anyway (cleaning, construction etc) and Brits are free to move out of the UK and work elsewhere ... Singaporeans are trapped on a tiny, tiny island and cannot even go work in Malaysia without a work permit, so the mentality is very different and Singaporeans become so xenophobic because they feel the need to protect their little turf.
More this weekend. Singapore's so fucked up in such a unique way that one can only coin the phrase... 'uniquely Singapore'.
OK Jacob, just for you: http://limpehft.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/what-is-situation-with-foreign-talents.html
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