Nonetheless, as far as I know, I don't have anyone who is mixed in my bloodline (never mind having say a white great-grandparent or anything like that). Any mixing that has resulted in his my mixed ancestry probably happened a very long time ago and has been diluted through the generations. But then again, I know my parents both self-identify as Chinese as did all four grandparents. I don't know anything about my great-grandparents given that they had passed away by the time I was born and my parents never talked about them - but boy, I do wanna find out more now. I wonder why I have never asked my parents about their grandparents in the past? Hey readers, do take this opportunity to talk to your parents about their grandparents.
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| Do you know what lies in your DNA? |
What's ironic of course, is the fact that my Hakka father is oh so Chinese. He was Chinese-educated, doesn't speak English, speaks Chinese as a first language and is fluent in Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien and Mandarin. Let's contrast him to my Hokkien mother who was English educated and is less Chinese in her ways to the point where I would speak in Singlish/Hokkien with her, because I know her Mandarin isn't great. But my European blood probably came from my dad's side, rather than my mother's - so there is a question of nurture vs nature and how our ethnic/cultural identity is shaped by factors like our education, our families and friends, rather than our bloodline, By that token, that makes my dad more white than me - LOL.
Now before I do the next exercise, let me write a disclaimer. I am not DNA expert, I know very little about how it all works, I am just a geek who is good with statistics okay? So if this is totally wrong, please don't attack me - kindly leave me a comment to tell me where I have gone wrong, thanks. So if I am 15.8% European, then that means my dad would be 31.6% European if (and this is a big assumption) it is true that the European blood came entirely from my Hakka dad's side rather than my Hokkien mum's side. Good grief, that makes my oh-so stereotypically Chinese dad almost a third white - good grief. That's such a shock for me, really. Like, that's practically Eurasian - that's a shock as my dad couldn't be more stereotypically Chinese in so many ways.
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| Do I have a rather large nose for a Chinese person? |
Now what I do know is that both my paternal grandparents in Malaysia (ie. my dad's parents) are both Hakka, so I am unable to continue extrapolating this statistic back any further to try to find out how far back I would have to go before I have an ancestor who is obviously European/white - but if my dad's already at 31.6%, I suspect not very far. A few generations perhaps? Or have most Hakka people always carried some European blood (as high as 20 to 30+%? Woah!) in them because of their historical background? Who knows? Having said that, each time a pure Hakka person marries someone else who is say, a Hokkien or Cantonese person, that percentage gets diluted when they have a child, as in my case. I would love to compare & contrast the results between say Hokkien, Cantonese, Hakka and other Chinese dialect groups to see if the % of non-Asian DNA characteristics vary amongst these groups.
I've never been all that interested in my DNA origins until today - after all, I had always just accepted that I was Chinese of Hakka-Hokkien mix, but wouldn't have thought of myself as 'mixed' in any way. I never really talked about my ancestors with my parents (nor did they ever volunteer any information beyond their parents). I got to know my Hokkien maternal grandmother really well as she took care of me when I was a child, but never got to know the other three grandparents. I've always been far more interested in what I do in terms of choosing the cultural contents of my life - for example, I am learning Welsh and Korean, this gives me access to Welsh & Korean culture because of my newly acquired language skills rather than because I have Welsh or Korean blood in me... Or wait, maybe I do... who knows?
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| How much do you know about your ethnic ancestry? |
Okay, I've gotta get back to work and mull about this. Expect a longer post from me at some point about this issue - but what do you guys think? If I am 15.8% white, can I tick the box for Eurasian or am I still Chinese? And as for my so stereotypically Chinese dad, if he is indeed 30+% white - would that make him Eurasian or does he get to self-identify as Chinese? And more to the point, how will he react if I told him that he is probably about a third white? It's too late for me to call Singapore now, but I will do so soon - and yes, of course I am going to blog about it and share his reaction with you. My guess is that he will probably not react much and just ignore it... or who knows? He may have some Hakka secrets to share with me about my Hakka roots? Stay tuned!
PS. If there are any DNA experts amongst my readers, please leave a message in the comments section below. I have so many questions - like, I have two sisters, if they do the same DNA test, would their results come out exactly the same as mine given that we all have the same parents? (Aah, someone has just answered that question - no the results wouldn't be the same for my sisters as we could draw different characteristics from either parents' DNA pool.) But hey, this is so interesting and fascinating, I wanna learn some more!




A Middle Eastern or Indian ancestor on your mother's side might also have contributed to your partial 'European' ancestry. Note that Quanzhou, where most Hokkiens originate from, was an important trading port in the Ming dynasty. A better comparison is to ask for your Chinese friends' results (if any).
ReplyDeleteAnother thing is that these DNA testing don't really work at the individual level. They are usually applied to study *populations*, not individuals.
Hi Fox! Thanks for your comment. Admittedly, I don't know much about my ancestry beyond my grandparents - I know virtually nothing about my great-grandparents.
DeleteSo I suppose Hokkiens from Quanzhou could've been mixed, but I was just following the theory that it would've been more possible for the European blood to have come from my father's side as he is Hakka. I would love to have subjected my parents to the same test and find out where the European genes lie - whether its my dad or mum or both?
I have looked at the results of the DNA of my friends who did the same test and they are pretty predictable - ie. if someone is white, they are usually like around 97% to 98% white with a little bit of black and/or Asian. I only have one American friend who was slightly mixed - he was 80% white, 18% American-Indian and 2% African. My friends who are black were like 95+% black + >5% white/Asian ... so it does look like most people were predominantly (ie. 95+%) of one type of geographical DNA gene pool, whilst people who are mixed are in the minority. Like I have friends who have tested 99.1% white.
Even those who think they are half white half black don't always end up with a clean 50-50 split, as it is fairly random which characteristics you inherit from which parent. I've been learning more about this - it is so fascinating. Are you interested in this topic too Fox?
Oh and I didn't have any Chinese friends do the test I'm afraid, this was during the Olympics and it was free. They took a swab from you, gave you a code to access your results with. I did tell all my friends on Facebook to go do it if they had the chance to do so during the Olympics, but actually surprisingly few of them bothered. I don't know why - this stuff is fascinating.
DeleteI am very interested in this topic. Most of what we were taught in school of Chinese ancestry is really bollocks, according to modern anthropology. A little reading up on ethnogenesis debunked most of that nonsense I learnt in school.
DeleteAnother thing: if the testing is accurate, then your sisters' results should be the same.
The accuracy of such tests is highly dependent on the reference populations. The reference populations in your case are Europeans, East Asians and Sub-Saharan Africans. What they try to estimate is the proportion of your ancestry from these reference populations. Hence, the accuracy of these estimates is highly dependent on the makeup of the reference populations. For example, had they left out the East Asians, then the proportion of your European and African ancestry would increase.
What I suspect is that their East Asian reference population is not identical to the South Chinese population from which most Chinese Singaporeans derive. Hence, any discrepancies were interpreted as non-Asian (i.e. European). It would be interesting to see what results your other Asian friends got (e.g. Indian, Thai, etc).
Hi Fox. Ah, I have had this conversation with other people and they tend to be of the opinion that my sisters' results could be different (but probably would end up in more or less the same ball park). The reason being that each sibling would have a pick of our parents' DNA gene pool and it's a pick & mix. So for example, of my 2 sisters, one is taller than the other - why is that the case? Surely one has got the tall gene whilst the other got the short gene. How else do you account for this difference in height? Thus surely, given that we have a mix of Asian + Angmoh DNA to choose from in our parents' gene pool, surely it would mean that we could possibly end up with different proportions? How does it work? Like is it possible that I may end up with more/less angmoh genes than my sister(s)?
DeleteAs for the reference population - this was done at the London 2012 Olympics, so really you couldn't have picked a more international event or occasion to have a really huge mix of international people from all over the world! So yes, I am sure that they did manage to get some East Asian people to take part in the study - after all, it's free and everyone loves a freebie. I guess we were just a little bit disappointed that we had to wait till 1st Nov before we got the results and we couldn't get the results on the spot!
And like I said, I persuaded a number of my friends to take part in the study and my friends probably represent a very small % of the total number of people who took part in the project over the full period of the 2012 Olympics - and it just so happens that my friends whom I managed to get to do it were either black, white or American-mixed. So yes, I'd love to compare to other Asians to see what their results are - but I don't have access to that data given the unscientific nature of me trying to get my friends to do this (ie. Facebook).
If you are talking about one allele, then it is possible that one of your sisters inherited the 'tall' gene and the other didn't. However, we inherit thousands of genes from our parents, so the mix we get is about 50-50 according to the law of large numbers. It's like this: if you have two kids, the possibility of having all boys or all girls is about 50 percent; if you have ten kids, then the odds of having all boys or all girls is 1000 to 1. The ratio of boys to girls should be around 1 to 1 but you cannot predict the birth order of the ten kids. That's purely random. Your sisters should have the same results as you. If they don't, then something is wrong with the test.
DeleteAlso, according to the company, the reference population is not the Olympic participants or volunteers. It's from an earlier study. So, if they didn't have a good sample of Asians, then the estimates would be off.
Given that my family are in Singapore and didn't come to the Olympics, it's just me who took the test so I wanted to see if I could tell my sisters if this result would be an accurate/close reflection of their DNA?
DeleteThey do actually have a rather substantial Chinese/Japanese population in Brazil - long story but they've always had Asians in Brazil. Mind you, I have extended family in Brazil (Brazillian-Chinese) - LONG story, but I will save that story for another day.
Ah Fox, I have managed to find a friend of a friend on Facebook talking about our results, long story, cos I told a friend to do this and she told her friends etc so this friend is also very fascinated by her results and her friends' results and YES she has Asian friends amongst those who did take the test and she and I are compiling some results to compare and contrast: nationality & results. This is going to be interesting.
DeleteWhat I can say is that most people are straight forward, ie. your blond blue eyed Angmoh is going to be 98% or 99% European whilst a black person who looks very African is going to be like very ethnicity pure as well, ie. approaching 100%. Asians tend to be a bit more mixed, but we're talking about percentages straying around the 90+% range.
The most interesting results are Brazilians for they are soooo mixed: European , African and Amerindian in different mixes of different proportions. Amazing. More this weekend.
Hi LIFT,
ReplyDeleteI am not a DNA expert, so this is based on my current general understanding. I do NOT think the math of genetics work the way you've describe. That is I don't think it is valid to deduce that your dad is 30% angmoh based on you having 15% angmoh genes. That is, I don't think genetic probability is counted in such a manner.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Biology-664/2009/2/Blond-Hair-Gene.htm
Cheers, WD.
Thanks WD. I guess my calculations were rather unscientific and inaccurate, but if I have 15.8% Angmoh genes then it has gotta have come from my parents, right? (As far as I know, I wasn't adopted...) But it's just the possibility that if it came from my Hakka father, then there is a probability that he is has even higher % Angmoh genes than me, right? Cos my dad is like soooo stereotypically Chinese, I'm just laughing at the idea that my dad can be more Angmoh than me in that department - cos I know in his eyes, I'm totally the jiat-kentang yellow banana. Do I get to claim that I am Eurasian now? Or do I actually have to look Angmoh before I get to make that claim? LOL :)
DeleteDear Limpeh,
ReplyDeleteIt is impossible to make any conclusive remarks about ancestry from this data as it is not know whether they are analyzing which gene loci or SNP haplotypes.
Also, important note: All humans originated from Homo sapiens in Eastern Africa. In fact based on mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomes of sample humans (over 5,00o) in a study published in 2007-2009, we can trace all our ancestry to a person in Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) to between 60-70,000 years ago. The branch that gave rise to Europeans and Asians (and Middle-easterners) left Africa about 50-60,000 years ago and moves to the Middle East, That group stayed in the Middle East and Central Asia until about 35,000 years ago, before they split - one group went west (became Europeans) and the other eastward to Asia (a sub-group) walk over the Bering Straits during the Ice Age to the Americas. So we almost expect Asians and Europeans to share more alleles / SNP haplotypes than the other main group, the Africans. You can read more about this from publications by Sarah Tishkoff, Peter Underhill, Spencer Wells (might need scientific journal subscriptions).
Did they provide more info on the the loci or haplotypes? Without this info, I think it is impossible to make any conclusive remarks.
Hi el28, yes I was disappointed with the amount of analysis they provided with the results. I have read up on what these DNA tests can reveal and they've barely scratched the surface. One can pay like £200/S$4000 for a test like that and mine was FREE.
DeleteThe whole ethos of this project was simply to prove to all subjects that no one is ethnically/racially 'pure' but we're all a bit mixed - some more than others but even those who are like 98 or 99% of one ethnicity still have traces of another ethnicity. So yeah, I am aware of the basics of the origins of how we migrated out of Africa in the beginning (I have done a LOT of reading on the topic since I got the results) - and so I am now tempted to maybe pay for a test to get a far more detailed analysis.
What I am more fascinated with also, is my family's reaction to this ... Have a look at my other recent posts on the topic on my blog, cheers.